The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Conference Wrap Up, Signal and AWS, Capital Gains Laws for Bitcoin | The CBP 237 Pt 1

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.The Canadian Bitcoin Conference - https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/The PREMIER Bitcoin Conference, held annually in the great white North, where Bitcoiners come together to share stories, build momentum and have a great time while doing so. Whether your a pleb, business, newcomer or OG, the Canadian Bitcoin Conference wants to see you in Montreal, October 16-18 2025. Don't miss this one!

And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies.

Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Levin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and Easy DNS, the media is feeding a slop. It doesn't matter.

what topics discussed, quality entertainment and information you can trust. That's being planned or at least discussed, you know, we're not going to allow the entertainment and information you can trust. Send the guys some value, boost them with some stats. Bitcoin is the scarcity. I mean, it's just a fact. Geopolitical, national down to the local cloud. Friends and enemies, welcome to yet another edition of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast.

I'm not doing this one solo this time. Joey's off sick. But I do have Boomer with me. Boomer, how are you, buddy? What's up, Len? Doing great. Joey's on the bench. We got to take him out, you know? Not doing that. Well, he just has something. That's all. He'll be back. It's not like it's terminal or anything. It is, you know, just a few days he'll be back at it. Have you talked to him verbally? No. Can he, can he speak? He lost his voice? I'm assuming so. The only time I have taken it sick day off was when I had David and he, I couldn't speak.

I was just, I was unable for me to, you know, the other time I disappeared was because there was a smell of sulfur in the air. And I just couldn't stick around for that, that motherfucker. But yeah, I don't know that. Well, here I am coming off the bench, like Kirk Gibson in 88, was it 88, 89? You told me before the show. 88, yeah, I think he was a pinch-fitting for the pitcher, if I recall,

because Steve Sachs was on deck and Sachs was the lead off-fitter. And I knew too much about that time. I guess that was October as well. And that was October. Yeah, the Js are paying. And that was October, right? Like it had to have been October because that was the world. It sure was.

It sure was. Yeah, J's at 8 o'clock. So tune in for this, you know, we'll, uh, I thought it'd be a 705. Jimmy Keeve versus Jamie Moyer, battle of the lefty, 705. Jamie Moyer pitched until he was like almost 50. There's an interesting stat with Jamie Moyer. I don't know what exactly, but when he retired, he pitched to approximately 11.

11% I don't know exactly but it's quite like something like that of all players that I've ever played in MLB baseball it's what considering like how long it spans like it's insane that he's done that because he pitched both the national and the NL I'm sorry and the AL so he was able to do it that was a time before there was um interleague and all that shit anyways we got to talk about the sponsors today and we got two sponsors we got to talk about you know what number one i still have the clip let's have joey do the first sponsor he's going to do easy dns let's tag in time machine time machine joey the magic of the internet here you are dns the best place for you to host your content buy domain port a domain anything to do with domains

mark's got your back we like mark he's been a friend of the show for a long time in front of ours as well and him and i be doing a couple of different i think chats at the conference will be on stage for together one is just the two of us about bill c2 uh the wolf and sheep's clothing. I think the talk is called not pulling any punches there. Anyways, if you're a bitcoiner, lots of stuff for you over at EasyNS on the virtual private server side, you can run a Bitcoin node, Noster Relay, set of a BTC pay server implementation for your shop. Don't you shopify, that's for sure. He can take care of all that for you. For a couple extra bucks, you get domain sure and easy mail, which honestly, if you're doing anything related

to a business or hosting client info or you have an email list or whatever, you want to protect those things. And these days a lot of people are gunning for that information. It's sold on the dark web. It's used nefariously. And you can imagine all things that could go wrong if you lose your client list or client database. So Mark can take care you there too. All you got to do is

go to easy DNS.com, put in the promo code CBP Media and you get 50% off your first round advice. Can't beat it. Thank you, Joey. Wherever you are right now. Thank you. It did a fine job with that ad read. We got a second sponsor. That would be bull Bitcoin.

Umer. Well, Bitcoin, what's the best exchange to buy your Bitcoin in Canada? Bull Bitcoin. Also, Bull Bitcoin announced yesterday or this weekend at some point that they're expanding to even more countries. So even if you're not in Canada, I think Argentina was the new one that they announced on the weekend. So several countries out there, Mexico, France, several other than Latin America,

bull bitcoin's where to go. Non-custodial Bitcoin, they never touch you. your Bitcoin. No chance that they're holding it on reserve. None of that. It's put it put in your money, get some sats, directly sent to your cold wallet. Or you can try out their new wallet, which I've been using now for about six months and I think it's great. Recently released the iOS version. I've been using the Google version since it came out. The iOS version. Jeez, do you remember, it wasn't the first time we met, but it was the second time we met in Toronto. So, Francis, Francis was talking about the bull Bitcoin wallet.

And it seems like it's finally the vision that he had at that announcement. It seems like as of now, you can do it now. So I suggest everybody go out there and try it. Even if you're in the U.S., you can still download the Bull Bitcoin wallet. You might not be able to buy Bitcoin on the wallet if you're in the U.S. I think it has to be supported by whatever. country you're in they have to do business there but you can use the liquid wallet you can you know it's lightning enabled as well too so you can move stuff around that way highly

use a VPN man just use a VPN I got to try to get around that let's yeah man put in your Argentina look in the comments for CBP's bull Bitcoin code what what is it uh 0.0.25 it takes a something like that it takes that off every buy and sell in perpetuity Forever. Yeah, right. If you're going to do buys and sells, which you are going to do some buys and hopefully never sell, well, Bill Bitcoin, it's going to be cheaper for you to do it in the long ones.

He might as well use our code to sign up. Just the best guys in the business, like we're going to talk about it a little bit later, but this weekend, I was at the Canadian Bitcoin conference. And as always, Bull Bitcoin, the busiest, the busiest crew there, right? Like all the people want to talk to the Bull Bitcoin guys, because everybody knows. was that they're just the best in the game, and it was a home game for them. Yeah, Montreal certainly was.

Then it made a trek to Toronto for another event, and I couldn't attend, because I don't want to get into that. Well, we'll just leave it the way it is. Either way... You'd have to get out of your basement. No, it's beyond that. It's much beyond that.

Unless in the family we're dealing with, and it's pretty bad. And so I'll leave it at that. Well, we've got some boosts. I've got to rhyme off here. Number one, Dan Wedge 100 sats. He says, great to hear from Mike. Money Talks just lost an analysis.

Could Joey be the new guy? And he says be with the Bitcoin symbol. Very cool way of doing that. So maybe Joey's not here to say yes or no, but he could potentially be the new on that analysis over there. Who knows? You're a big money talks guy. Yeah, I'm listening to Mike Campbell since way before I was in Bitcoin.

So like well over a decade. I don't think I've missed an episode in, 12 years. Like truly one of the most important voices I think in Canadian finance, Mike Campbell. If there's a Hall of Fame for Canadian broadcasters, which I'm sure there is, I do hope that Mike Campbell gets enshrined. Dan's, once again, Dan Wedge, another 113 sats. He says, great rip this week, Len, Joey needs to run knots.

Joy needs to run something. But you know what? You can lead the horse to water. that horse has to drink by himself, herself, itself, whatever. me, in this case, Joey, man, run something. Let's get you to run something. Joey keeps running. He's going to tear another ACL or another Achilles.

So, I don't know. Then it's even more opportunity, actually. War time, 133 sats. A couple of beer mugs doing a cheers. Mo, BTC, Dick, 500 sats. He says the episode titles are on point lately, lads. And that's Joey's work. good to him kudos to him for doing that and last but not least we got samuel bell 13

just simply donate 500 stats with the respect to an interview that we had or joey had with mark it was two weeks ago i think so appreciate all those sets so if you want to give us a boostogram and top five will be read in the next episode also this wednesday stay tuned the rock paper Bitcoin folks are going to be either on our show or Joey's going on their show. I'm not sure if it's a home or an away thing, but yeah, you've met them, right? You met them this past week?

Not only did I meet them this week. I was actually in attendance for that recording. So, D and I may or may not make an appearance in that. There weren't enough mics to go around. So D and I kind of held back, but we were there. So fundamentals and business cat, did it sound like, I see,

episode or a rock paper bitcoin episode i think it was a cbp episode so coming out wednesday then there you probably coming out coming out wednesday it's joey was was was was leading in in that for sure awesome all right and i do a cameo small cameo is it of course it's the video on this i want to see this i want to see a photo bomb by you anyways that's it for the things i got to list off the things i got to do let's talk about some bitcoin related stories number one Talk about the conference, just took place to Canadian Bitcoin Conference in Montreal, October 16, 17 and 18. I did not go, Romeo saying he was disappointed that I did not attend the conference. You know what?

I couldn't go anywhere this weekend, even if I wanted to. There was an event that was supposed to go on Saturday. I couldn't even say what the heck it is. But anyways, I couldn't even go to that. I'm just, I'm stuck for the next little while. It's not me, somebody else, and it's just, it's impacting us here. But either way, what was your experience? like at the Canadian Bitcoin Conference in Montreal, Boomer.

Well, you were missed, Len, as always. Like, I had a great time with you when I went to Toronto two years ago already, right? Over two years, because that was June of 2023. So, yeah, this year was great again. 24. No, you're right, 23. You're right. It was May or June of 23.

Yeah. 24 was also May or June, 24, but it was in Montreal. And then this is the second year in Montreal. So this was the second year at the Rialto Theater. The venue is just perfect. It's a beautiful, just an absolutely beautiful venue. Daniel and Manuela, the organizers, they do such a great job of just organizing the thing. They're running around the entire time.

The volunteers did a great job. I'll be honest, I was there for most of it. I missed Thursday, the hockey game. Canadian team took it on the chin again in the Hoddler's Cup. the Americans took down Canada 9-0. Holy fuck. So if you're a Canadian Bitcoin or listening to this that has a pair of skates and, you know, can slap the puck around a little bit,

definitely reach out to Corey at Hodler's official. I think he's really, they're hurting over there on the Canadian side on the hockey game. Wait, wait, let's not exit this topic yet. Who played goal? Was it Ryan? It was Ryan again. It was Ryan again. So a nuclear bick-corner was in goal.

And, you know, give the men some credit. Like, again, I didn't attend this year, but I did attend the game last year. And Ryan is not an incredibly, like, experienced goalie. Like, he's there because they kind of don't really have anyone else to do it. And he tried his best. And he wasn't that bad. They were just, like, bombarded with the talent on the American side. The American side have a couple of guys that are actually really good.

And they have some rigors. Yeah, they had two guys, like, uh, Brendan Gentile, who I think you've had on the show before. I don't know if he's still affiliated with them, but he was with BTC trading cards. Right. Yeah, yeah, you had him on a year or two ago. I think he was drafted by the Bruins or something. Like, what the fuck?

Yeah, and the other guy, the other guy might even be better than him. It was like some kid who's 19, 20 years old. It was like 6'4 who can just like, there was no touching these two. so uh like we can't like is window clark a fucking bitcoiner is duggie gilmore a bit like can we not go is patrick wah bitcoin we could fucking montreal we could get gharbino to get out there and like you know play some defense over there kirk muller where's kirk muller when you need him yeah i want saku kovin vincent damfus yeah there's a fucking number guys we can't fucking guys you know what i i i'm fucking willing to battle a lot of them if they're

they're fucking shit winners. I don't think so. I don't think so. I didn't need a couple of... It just seems like they're going to be fucking shitwinners. I don't think so. I don't think they're good guys. I know a couple of them.

I know one for sure. Like, I know one guy. I know he's not a shit cornerist, but really he's a good dude. So yeah, I wasn't there for Thursday, but I was there Friday and Saturday. You'll have to have Joey. When Joey comes back next week, you'll have to ask him a lot more about the talks because I'll be honest, I didn't really attend a whole lot of the talks. To me, the conference, just like it was when I was with you a couple of years ago,

I spend most of my time just kind of outside the area where the presentations are, and I'm just sitting there. I just want to meet the people. To me, it's very much like a big meetup, right? There's so many people I want to talk to. It's hard to see all the talks. I did catch Francis's talks, Larry Lepard's talks. a few more, but for the most part, I was, I was socializing outside.

And it was great. The energy was absolutely fantastic. Like I said before, the venue is fantastic. Overall, I thought I'd have to see the final numbers. So maybe Daniel and Manuela, maybe can let us know. But it seemed like there were maybe fewer people than there were last year. Maybe not a lot fewer, but they definitely seemed to be less. but the people that were there last year

it seemed like they were all committed like these it was it was very high signal I didn't talk to anybody who was a crypto person at all everybody that I talked to was a bitcoiner there seems to be more people that are working in the space than there was last year but there were not a lot of Bitcoin curious people it seemed like the people that were there

were already Bitcoiners and just you know little chats i had with the with the vendors that were that were there they kind of said the same thing uh like for example quick bit uh you're aware quick bit they uh they were in like a a broken mortar bitcoin mortar bitcoin store in saskatchewan yeah i remember dealing with yeah yeah yeah they sell they stealth off over there um and i was talking to them and they said that yeah like there was a lot of people a lot of people that last year, their sales last year were seemed to be better because there were a lot of newer people last year than there were this year. So I don't know. Yeah. So David is saying that 460 people

registered this year. That's maybe more out of than Saturday. So yeah. So apparently that's there's more this year than last year. I'm not sure did people back out or something even after registering because the price of Bitcoin did go down a little bit just before the conference. Right. I'm wondering if that had the impact of people's attendance over there. Maybe. Maybe. And also I think just like something that I noticed, there were a lot of panels that were paper Bitcoin focused. A lot of treasury company stuff. A lot of MNAV being talked about. And Joey, and Joey, who is the MC, did not. He used it as an opportunity to crack wise a couple of times. So maybe the, you know, we said 70, 80 percent. declines in some of these stocks, right? So maybe that's what it was. There you go. That's very well said, Pablo says Pablo.

But for the organizers, when they were organizing the conference, the suit coiners and the treasury companies, that was all the rage. So here they are a few months later where the fad has kind of died off a little bit, but those speakers are still scheduled to come on. Yeah. So it kind of goes to show that, you know, the Canadian, the Bitcoin space in general can change pretty rapidly. That being said, there were still lots of great talks.

They're still fantastic. One that really stuck out for me was another guest that you guys had on, Matthew from Wilford Laurier, the Wilford Laurier Bitcoin Club. That young man is doing a lot of really good work. He's now working. He's a developer now. So he's one of the few North American, one of the few North American arc developers. Yes.

And he's going to be coming on a show in a not too distant future. Great. Because a Bitcoin Plus Plus is going to be, there's an event taking place in July of next year in Toronto, 22, 23, 24, I believe, something like that. I'd like to attend to that. And I think he's going to be there as well. Great. Yeah, he is. He definitely is.

I talked to him about it. So it was great. So socialize, obviously. lots of conversations had the after party there were, I think two after parties I wasn't invited to the super exclusive one that Joey went to but I went to the

I'm offended for you man I'm a man of the people then I'm a man of the people then I'm a man of the people yeah eventually you've got to get whined and dined like you can't just be like me and just sitting in the basement all day you got to be like a more of an upper end like upper

echelon plaid right you know what I mean like the fuck You deserve it, brother. I did attend one of the after parties that was put on by Bitcoinwell, Adam and crew over there at Bitcoin Well. And they did a great job. It was packed. It was absolutely packed. You didn't do like uninvited.

Like he didn't show up and fucking take a slice of pizza, right? No, he didn't. In the speaker's room, right? Go to the speaker's room. And then bring Chris Sky. So Chris Sky, Chris Guy was his plus one. And he showed up to the speaker's room and stole to me. That's not a little there.

Hey, do you hear DeCentral? Were they there? no they were not i didn't see them anyway i i didn't see them uh but there were other apparently there were people there that i didn't see like like i said like i told you earlier like i was pretty social there you mentioned rock paper bitcoin i hung out with those two guys like the entire time like uh so i it it's definitely possible that they were there but they definitely didn't have a booth but aside from them the regular montreal you know the pillars of the montreal bitcoin community were there you know like uh obviously bull bitcoin panties for bitcoin uh several of the other companies the

brock rewards team were all there they're from vancouver but scott didles and seb bunny and Travis and all those guys they were all there and you didn't get sick well shake pay like you didn't get sick you came out of this pretty much on skis i'm not sure like honestly i i had a super busy day at work today so like i i didn't really i didn't i didn't i haven't really come down and relaxed. You know what I mean? Like I'm still kind of maybe running on adrenaline a little bit from all the all the conversations I had on the weekend and then straight to work today

and being pretty busy because I missed a few days of work. But I definitely have a bit of a headache and my throat's a little bit scratchy. So I've already taken tomorrow off to kind of rest up because I feel I might keep coming down with something. You could take a bunch of days off because AWS is still down from what I understand, right? And it's impacting just about everything. Yeah. The internet is built on AWIS.

Yeah, my Pokemon Go is really slow today. What the fuck? Priorities, right? Yeah. You notice anything besides your Pokemon Go AWS, man, I can't believe how much of the impact that had in the rest of the internet. Like Coinbase and a bunch of others, like, fuck. I didn't feel it.

I know some people were having trouble with Signal. I literally the app signal. I didn't notice any problems It was Europeans apparently that we're having the majority of the issues with Signal I don't know why but that's what is being reported But you know what it's going to show me that There is an issue with Signal with being totally decentralized When Signal can have issues

When it can be interrupted when a third party Their servers go down My faith in Signal goes down with that as well. I'm looking at sessions or keats or something else perhaps as a better alternative. Maybe they're equally a shit. But I'm actively looking for some replacement for signal.

I think this, it's left a sour taste in my mouth. I don't know about you. Simplex is one of the ones that the guys in my meetup use quite a bit. They're pretty OPSEC focused, pretty extremely technically knowledgeable. And they swear by Simplex. So I've used it a little bit. I can't say it's good or bad.

It works just fine for me. But I haven't had any problem with Signal. Doesn't mean it's the best just because you have any problems yet. Exactly. For sure. For sure. Well, anyways, good thing is bold Bitcoin. They didn't have any issues with the AWS thing.

Like AWS was impacting, as I mentioned, Coinbase and probably have some other exchanges. They're saying that your funds, okay. Come on. Your funds are not okay if it's with Coinbase. They fucking hold on to it. They own it. If something goes wrong, you're going to get their rug and they're going to run away with it. They don't give a fuck in the end. So, uh,

whatever. I'm reading fundamentals in the chat over here saying that we didn't mention that the rock paper Bitcoin guys recorded with Joey. And we absolutely did. So fundamentals, go back, go back and listen. We absolutely talked about that. Coming on

on Wednesday. Yeah. We we gave a, we've dedicated a good two minutes to that. Two minutes. Two minutes. Yeah. Considering we were 23 minutes in, that's almost 10% of the show. So be happy. So this AWS thing, do we know anything about it?

Do we know any of the reasons why it happened? Or are we just kind of a little bit too soon to tell? I think it was reported. Some sort of API issue. I'm not sure exactly what was. That's all I heard. something with the do with API. But it just goes to show you how much we rely on AWS, on Amazon,

for just a lot of critical internet infrastructure. But, you know, I think this is a good opportunity because there were a number of people saying that the number of not users, not users increased. And there was some talk, I don't subscribe to this, but some talk saying that it was some people just spinning them up on Amazon servers. So they weren't really economical nodes.

They were just simply somebody just doing it. I guess in the past, in the next few days, we should be able to look at the numbers to see how many nodes went offline during this time. And if there was a noticeable drop of knots and or core, then we could say, not definitively, but we could say, you know what, there's a strong correlation between that and AWS going offline.

And perhaps you may be running some of those nodes on AWS. But if there's no change or it's negligible, then you can't use the argument. It's hard to say that somebody just using Amazon servers to spin up knots nodes. It's not the case. So this is an excellent opportunity for Bitcoiners to get the data, analyze it, and to prove this narrative wrong. There was a little bit of talk of this. And I really want you to have the knots and core discussion with Matthew when he comes on, because it's something I did talk to him a little bit about.

And very early in the conversation, like I realized that his knowledge of this topic is way above mine. So I actually brought in some of my friends from here in Ottawa who are a little bit more technical, not a little bit more, a lot more technical than I am on this subject. And it was that what you just mentioned there about not nodes being spun up recently and maybe being spun, I'm not going to say fraudulently, but maybe kind of spun up in a maybe just the way to boost numbers

boost the way to boost numbers yeah like one person maybe boosting up a ton of nodes just for the sake of putting up numbers that was something that did come up on Sunday during that conversation ah okay I thought that was a little bit interesting what about hash rate did you did you notice anything special with the hash rate again like I had a super busy day today I didn't I didn't have time to look at any of this stuff did we see any decline any meaningful decline in hash rate I don't know if it was any meaningful decline. I know we had an all-time high just before.

It was like 1.1 set a hash or whatever. But I don't know if there was a drop. I don't think we'd notice a drop, considering that miners are doing things on their own stuff. Like, I don't think they're utilizing a third-party Amazon server to host anything. I think they're doing it as all in-house as much as possible. Okay.

Anyways, magic internet math is asking or saying that he came up and came to the conference in a suit. Is he the only person that was there in a suit? I don't know if he was, no, he definitely was not the only person in a suit. He was also the only person in an ungovernable misfits dirty hoodie for most of the conference. So like, yeah, maybe he had a suit on for his presentation, but he quickly took off that suit to put on a sweatshirt that looked like it hadn't been washed in a long time. So in that case, you just blend in with the rest of the Bitcoiners

and you want to be able to tell him from Adam or Steve over there. Exactly. It's a good blending in, yeah. Anyway, are you going to be hitting this treasure event going on October 21st? I'm not sure if you saw this. But apparently they're doing some sort of big reveal, big announcement, October 21. You're a treasure user? I'm not a treasure user.

we shouldn't talk too much shit about Trezer don't they have like it's not the worst reputation in the space I have heard people that I respect and value their opinions say that Treasor is not that bad as a kind of an onboarding type of wallet I'm going to have to confirm this

but didn't their users get rugged by a hack or am I wrong where they were able to get not funds lost but names and addresses associated with owning a device for sure Ledger had that was that also a treasure thing I don't know Ledger for sure

Treasor I don't remember but it's certainly possible and Treasor you can't at least the old devices you had to have a physical hookup to a computer in order for to work yeah right like let's go air gap man

we're at a point where we don't have to fucking deal with this connection bullshit let's fucking Ledger has the worst reputation and they fucking should ledger. But you know what? Remember when Ledger had the fucking hat that they were pushing and in that you

could put one of your ledger devices in it? Or the chain Holy fuck. Buy it at Best Buy. You could go and buy them at Best Buy. Fuck. And Pablo's even saying the OG boomers still have the main stack on Treasurer.

I have zero faith in that device. If you're going to do it right, air gap the motherfucker. Don't explodes your keys to the internet. Make sure every time you do an exchange, like, sorry, do a signing of a transaction, it's air gap, man. Don't fucking have anything connected.

Don't mess around. It's not like he can go to the bank manager and have them reverse your transaction. Once a transaction has been built, it has been put into the next block or a block, it's done. It's gone. It's finished. There's nothing that you could do to undo that. So you got to make sure it's done right. So it's

something that Joey said, I think, last week or the week before, not last week, the last time he was on. Treat your Bitcoin on chain as if it was 10 times or 100 times more valuable than it is now. Yeah, NVK says that. NVK, yeah, yeah. There is something to be said about, okay, you just onboarded your brother or your sister or a friend of yours, and they just put a couple of hundred dollars in Bitcoin and you don't want to overwhelm them too much with something overly complicated.

Look, I use a cold card. I'll admit it. Like I'll say, I'll use a cold card, but it is more of a learning curve to learn how to use that device than some of these other things. And for some people, the newly initiated, it might be easier to have them with a device that's more user-friendly. Yeah. But you definitely, if you're using something like a treasurer or a ledger, you already should be thinking about your next answer. you know like you you you you want to move up from that and i'm not going to sit here and let's not going to sit here and tell you like how much how many sats or how much dollars

where's that line but uh one sat i'll say i'll go out on on record to say if you have one fucking sat you should have it on your on your cold card see probably saying there's people that do one thing and say something or say something and do something else like right there are hypocrites stuff like you know what it is there's enough evidence out there to say why you should do it a particular way people have been rugged because they clicked on the wrong thing your computer has been infected with a virus or whatever and then somehow they were their keys were lost they think they were sending a transaction to a particular address but it went to a different address you got to do it right and the way I'm describing it if you if you do it properly

if you set up your keys offline this is going a little bit this is like the extra mile but this is the one I'm a big fan of not just only having your own node you've got to have that but even your own dedicated computer just with Sparrow

is that way that computer you're not doing anything with it. It's always offline you only turn it on update it then just do the interaction to sign your partially signed Bitcoin transaction by doing that that computer is not going to get impacted by bullshit like you're not using it. It's just like that's what you have to do

you have to think about this like you were saying it's worth 10 times the value that it is today and if you do that you will treat it with a lot of respect because again if you're going to lose whatever you have if you have you know half a bitcoin a quarter of bitcoin a third of it whatever the fuck it is and you lose it you're going to feel it in a few years you know i agree with you i agree with you like i'm not arguing with you at all but i am aware that this whole bitcoin thing it's a lot for someone who's brand new yeah and There's a, there is an evolution, though. Yes.

Because you don't come in and do what I'm saying right off the bat. It would be great. But there are people in the space that have been in this space long enough. And this is why I make fun of the, uh, what ledger did podcast. Because the guy has been, at least before he left and started doing the other things. He was in this space long enough. He, he knew the bullshit that Ledger is all about. and to push that on somebody

that's the wrong message because that is the entry point right and that's people they go there to listen to him but if he's showing them a difference something that's better that's what you gotta do yes and even if something is a little bit

more difficult and a little bit more intimidating it's better to do that than to have to do it all over again you know what I mean you do you do something that's 90% as hard and then you have to redo it because you didn't do the absolute best practice. I think there's gray area here. As far as everybody should run a node,

but if you just got into Bitcoin yesterday and you're not running a node, that's fine. 100%. If you've been in Bitcoin for five years and you've been dollar cost averaging $100 a week, then, yeah, you should be thinking about a better hardware solution than a treasurer. But if you're new, if this is one of the first times that you're listening to a Bitcoin podcast, you know, first of all, welcome. Glad to have you. You're not too late. Don't be overwhelmed. Take it a day at a time. Priestess in the chat just says, like, we have BTC sessions tutorials. Yeah, like, BTC sessions tutorials are great,

but they can be a little intimidating when you've just started and then here you are listening to some guy for two hours how to use a hardware wallet when you know you've just learned how you don't even know what you own

I'm just looking at the chat and laughing was shake pay at the event they were at the event they were did they talk about their new lightning implementation? I was actually a beta tester for for that implementation so can you talk about it at all because i'm curious to hear because i know there's all there are a lot of people that still use shakebay and i'm curious

yeah it works it works pretty well it's it's a pretty seamless uh you you don't even really realize that you're using lightning uh it's it's a withdrawal and instead of putting in your bitcoin as you would withdraw your bitcoin on chain you put in a lightning a lightning address instead of a BTC address and then it'll it just says like okay this is lightning um it's good uh it's not perfect um it doesn't have it's not liquid enabled which is something that's important to me because i said right from the get go here that like i'm a bull bitcoin wallet that's my my daily driver so i would have liked something that i could move into liquid uh and lightning so they only do lightning. It's also not the greatest for transactions. It's fantastic for, okay, you just bought

some Bitcoin. Maybe it's not enough to go on chain because you don't want a UTXO that's small. So you're going to put it on your Lightning wallet. It's great for that. It's not great for you're at the farmer's market and the farmer accepts that and you want to pay in Bitcoin because it requires an extra step. You have to confirm every single transaction, just like a regular BTC transaction. So overall, it's really good. You say what you want to say about shake pay

and about certain things that happened over there about data breaches and... Remember that? Yeah, and Ethereum still being on their platform. Say what you want to say. They are a very user-friendly experience. it's not an overwhelming experience for someone who's new to Bitcoin. It's the ledger of Canadian exchanges.

I think it's better than that. I would say it's better. I don't think it's, I don't think it's that. I think it's, I think, I do think they're a good company. I do think they're, I don't think they're trying to rug anybody over there. I don't think ledger is trying to rug anybody either. I'm not so sure. I don't know enough about them to say, yes or no.

I don't think they have I'm not sure if Ledger is a Bitcoin company or a Fiat company where I do It's a Fiat company certainly Yes that's what I'm that's what I'm alluding to and I don't think Shake Pay are fully a Fiat company

I've had enough conversations with people that work there to know that these people are Bitcoiners they're just appealing to a different consumer than the guys that Bull Bitcoin are and look I got full bitcoin swag behind me like like i i love those guys right like i but i i have all of these tools like i have all the exchanges i would anybody asked me what's the best exchange in canada

i will a hundred times out of a hundred say bull bitcoin but i do understand for some people that shake bay is a little bit better of an onboarding tool but just like we were talking about the hardware wallets at some point you want to get the person from shake pay on to bull just like you would want somebody that is on treasor onto cold card and that's just my opinion i've got i'm not going to but i'm not going to talk any shit about the shake pay people because i like them and speaking of lightning because it's the topic we're just discussing not sure if you heard but square they started deploying out their terminals that include lightning on it that include you could allow customers to pay

in Bitcoin. I've been hearing about this for as long as I've been in Bitcoin, I think. It was supposed to be a huge rollout this year, to the end of the year. Finally, we got one company called Compass Coffee, and that's in DC, Washington, D.C. Joey, I hope, if you were still there, you could have visited them and check them out. They now enabled, over there, you have the ability to pay with your Bitcoin. Cool stuff. You're right. We've been hearing about this for a long time. And I think now it's becoming a reality. I know that they were going to be rolling this out a little bit, and then sometime next year, every merchant will have the ability to do it.

I don't think it's, I recall correctly, there's an opt-in type of thing, but just to have this out there. It's showing that Bitcoin can be not just simply a sort of value, but a medium of exchange. It's going to need to be very easy because the vast majority of these people that are using square terminals have more than enough shit to worry about than one more thing. Doesn't it automatically convert?

I hope so. Yeah. And if that's the case, then there's no skin off the back of the merchant. In fact, if it's an automatic exchange and if it's done like that, you don't have to wait for settlement with Visa or Amex or sorry, MasterCard Amex.

Yeah, it's final settlement. Right. And the fees are significantly cheap. There you go. Unless you're making 25 cent. Unless you're going to bulk bar and buying jujubes before for a road trip and you're buying 25 cent purchases each time. Unless you're doing that, it's going to be significantly cheaper on fees. Transaction fees will be a 10th. That's very exciting. If it works, it's a no brainer. If it works, it's a no brainer. It's just getting people, like I said, a lot of these people that are using these square terminals are

farmers markets, there are people like that that have a hundred other things to worry about other than one more method of payment. So I haven't used it. I haven't seen it. Obviously, it's still being rolled out. Nobody's really seen it. Only the compass coffee people that I've seen it. Yeah, it just better be easy. Because let's just face it. If merchants wanted to accept Bitcoin, they could. It's a million ways to do it. There's also the stumbling block, too, of the tax. And I hope this gets resolved. Because, you know, that I'll be honest, I think that's a sticking point for some folks over here

that just don't want to go through the hassle of then reporting it to, you know, or IRS or CRA, whatever. It's the most important thing from a policy standpoint that can come out of Bitcoin. And I don't know if we are 100% in agreement on this, but I know you and I share a very similar view on strategic reserves and stuff that we just don't really care. Like it's it's I don't care. But this I actually do care. So if I could get governments, the Canadian government, the US government, European

governments, everyone to make one thing about policy regarding Bitcoin, it would be this. Diminimus purchases. First of all, there should be no taxes on Bitcoin. In my humble opinion, it's a currency. It's money. like there should be no capital gains on on bitcoin or gold to be honest or just like there's no capital gains on ux right like if if you go to the united states and you buy five thousand dollars worth of u.s dollars before you go and then you come back and you've only spent a few

hundred well you're and then you exchange back to canadian dollars you're not paying tax on on that arbitrage so why are we paying tax on bitcoin and on gold I think that this is, of all the things our government could do, I think this is, this is pretty easy. You think the Canadian government, though, is going to make that change. I hope so. They probably wouldn't. Mark Carney in the past, our prime minister, has talking unfavorably about Bitcoin. Now, that was quite a while ago.

It's too may have changed, but we haven't heard anything. and his main opposition, I've spoken about his flip-flopping on Bitcoin and I can't see him going and saying, oh, let's make Bitcoin a currency, let's not tax it when people use it for, I can't see him doing that. We could have de minimis rules, right?

Everything under $500 or whatever to start off. I would prefer all Bitcoin transactions are tax-free, but if they said like, okay, under $500 or under $200. At least that's a start. And I think that would be a major step in the right direction. And much easier, I would think, than some big policy about a strategic reserve. Yeah.

And on a flip side, it would also put a bullseye on you. If you are spending your Bitcoin, then you are basically, and it's identified to the government, you're spending your Bitcoin. And then it's like, okay, I own it. Like, let's, so that's the other thing. It's not just doing that is then there's the fact you are basically declaring that you are a Bitcoiner and you have Bitcoin. I got a question for you, Len.

Yes, sir. If taxes on Bitcoin transactions were removed, let's just say in the United States, for the sake of argument, the United States government executive decision, Bitcoin transactions are exempt from tax. Does the price of Bitcoin go up? or go down. That's a good question. I'm undecided.

What do you think? Same here. Completely don't know. I think in the short run would probably go down, but in the medium to long term, it would be some of the best news that we've heard about Bitcoin

in a long, long time, and it would probably be a major positive. But my guess would be the initial reaction would be a lot of people would want to sell. And that would be a buying opportunity of a lifetime, not financial advice.

Interesting analysis. So you were talking about the strategic Bitcoin reserve. I'll be honest, I don't give a fuck if they do it or not. And are you the same, like you're like that, you don't give a fuck, right? Yeah, basically. It's an, I think a net positive, but a slight net positive. It's just the manner in which you're doing it. They're going to be using, it looks like a part of their seized Bitcoin as funding it.

So you hear about this latest story where the Department of Justice, this seized 127 Bitcoin, 127,000 Bitcoin, sorry. Yeah, yeah. And before we get into that, and I know what you want to get into, I want to get into that. Before we get into that,

shout out to Brian Hirschfield's book, Bitcoin for Institutions, who talks about what we were just talking about before, about how Bitcoin, his book is Bitcoin for institutions, but it's actually the story of the end of the book. It basically said like Bitcoin is for individuals. And it's very different.

goal for moon if cap gains get lifted i agree in the long run not in the short run yes about the the the the seizing of the pig slaughtering now when you heard that pig butchering pig butchering pig butch when you heard that the first time were you like me and you actually thought it was some scam regarding like like uh yes 100 percent i completely thought that i never heard this term before like i thought it was like some pig butchering or pig slaughtering business that was involved in bitcoin that's what i thought to do but that's not what it's a term people that are hopeless romantics out there that are willing to pay for something in the end of getting fished in uh and you know into some sort of crypto scam and in the end of paying and that's

essentially what the pig butchering is they're just it's a scam your finances get slaughtered in the end. Yeah, a social engineering scam, I guess, would be the all-encompassing way of saying it. So this, as far as I understand, this, these people had a call center of some sort. In Cambodia. In Cambodia. And we're calling people to scam them out of their money. Yeah.

And in some cases, they were using, they were getting the person being scammed to send them Bitcoin. And in other cases, the scammers were converting whatever they got into Bitcoin. Do I have that right? Yeah. So they had 127,000 Bitcoin in total. So why aren't we doing whatever we can to get the people back their money? That is the argument.

It's not the government's money. Yeah. It's the people's money. That's the argument that people are saying is that there are people out. they are, they may be fucking dumb or shit because they were scammed, but still the rightful claim is they should get their funds.

Now, granted, the Department of Justice has not said what you're going to do with this. It's assumed that they may keep this for their strategic reserve, but it's not certain. They may still give

it back. So in terms of what they're going to do with this, we don't have any definitive answer as of yet. But that whole idea of giving it back to the people that lost it makes perfect sense to me. Like if somebody, there's dumb or shit, they're lucky that DOJ stepped in and they may be able to get what they lost. But that's who they deserve to get it.

That's the reality of it. Or at least giving the people who got scammed the option of, it's like, okay, do you want your Bitcoin back? But I guess that. Even if you do that, how do you ensure that, okay, if the dollar value of when you got scammed or the actual Bitcoin? They're better off than where they were today. If they got a fraction, at least now the U.S. stepped in. And I would imagine people from all over the world were subjected to this type of romantic scam.

Who the fuck knows what they were targeting? And I guess everyone around the world was part of it. To give you an idea, this is $13 billion as of yesterday. price of bitcoin that's so much this is approximately 13 billion dollars another question i have is is this everything is you know when the doj stepped in you know they fucking stormed a place with their what their stormtroopers and they ended up getting the keys was that all the keys did did somebody hide something like you know i wonder if there's more to hear that is there's more that they have they just didn't voluntarily give up everything let's be honest

Like, did they leave the shit on the exchange? Did they just have the keys just sitting there for somebody to take? I don't know. Like, what is their key management? It sounds like it's shoddy if this is the case. It's a rack up $13 billion. I don't think they're fucking dumbasses to do this. They must have some other corn.

They must stash somewhere else. I think there's more to it than meets the eye. Definitely. The story is still early. We still don't know that much, right? People were arrested. There will be, I assume, there will be a trial, like, and then maybe we'll get information out of that, but.

So this company, I don't like it, I don't, I don't like Christ's group, whatever they're called, they're going to get sanctioned, just fucking jurisdiction shop, they'll fork into a different name and go somewhere else, and they'll just hide under, fly under their radar like that. Or let's be honest, they can just close shop and reopen somewhere else under their brother-in-law's guidance and, you know what I mean? Like, this is just, it's a whack-a-mo type thing. They'll never stop this, but a slight tangent, but I am staying on topic here and I'll bring it back in a minute. What is the demographic of the people that listen to your podcast, like age one?

Mostly, if I were to guess, Joey's probably a better indicator of this, but I'm going to guess between 35 and over, like 50. Yeah, I just bring this up to say that if you're listening to this, you're probably not the target for some of these. scammers. That being said, be careful out there with these types of scams. One thing that I did hear in Montreal this week from Michelle Weekly of all people was have a safe word. Have like a safe word when you're talking to your family. So like some sort of password that you know for sure that if it sounds like your cousin or your brother or your sister, you can ask them a specific question and only they will know the answer to it because with AI and all this stuff it's going to get more and more difficult to know that you're being scammed that's a good fucking point

very careful up there that's a good fucking point yeah i'm wondering too like this whole thing like the 13 billion dollars they had just sitting there it almost reminds me a bit of ftx in a way right they have the romance is going on the fucking orgies i fucking money being coming in and coming out it's the fucking it's not theirs that's it kind of reminds me a bit of right like i know there's already been a book written about ftx michael lewis wrote a book but one day there will be a real book written about ftx with the actual story um and i think we're going to find out that ftx was a lot more uh there's a lot more of a conspiracy there than meets the i do you see that they're trying

to like soften the whole narrative the whole story behind sbf it's like they're rewriting history in a way yeah i know and i'm torn on this because i want that guy to stay in jail however i have an ongoing bet with the julian figaroa for a hundred thousand sats that he gets released in the next 10 years. So, what's he serving? 15 years. I took the under on 15 years and he took the over and we agreed on 100,000 sats. So if we're right about this Bitcoin thing, 100,000 sats in 15 years from now, it might

actually be a lot of money. So like I might have to fork up a significant amount of dollars. If my friend Sam over there stays in jail for more than 10 more years. because I get, well, I guess 12 more years. He's probably been in jail three years by now. But I got the under, I got the under on that. I'm with you. I'm feeling really good about the under.

So Julian, if you're listening to this, like get those stats ready because I think their revisionist history is about to happen with this guy. So here it is. 24 March sentenced to 25 years in prison. Yeah, I'm going with the fucking under. Yeah, 15 or less. Like something is going to have to give. Contact Julian, if you want in on that bet, 100,000 sats and.

I got under on the 15 on the I'm not a betting man but fuck I may have to break my no I can't but if I'm gonna bet like I go with a fucking under on this guy yeah I'm for sure he's coming up I'm feeling good I'm feeling good I but I don't understand why they're trying to rewrite history with this guy like what's the point here the guys they don't want him to talk they don't want him to talk good look I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get you guys demonetize and I don't want like I come on you know I come on I do not fucking care, man. Just say what you got to say.

I think if you look into his parents, look into his girlfriend, like Carolyn Ellison, look into her family history. Just follow the dots, man. Like, do you ever watch The Wire? No. I think I've been on this show like three times.

I think this is like the second time I quote The Wire. I love the Wire. You got to watch The Wire. Lester Freeman Lester Freeman says in like I think it's season one where he says if you follow drug dealers if you follow drugs

all you find is drug drug dealers and junkies but if you follow the money you don't know what the fuck you're going to find That's a good line You know what I was going to ask Is it a movie or a show You answer to follow the money

It's a show it's an HBO show Yes yeah I'm going to fuck Follow the money I'm still trying to catch up on all in a family right now. So I'm about 50 years behind. I'll let you know when I get out in mid-70s into something more recent. See the whole Paxos while Blue Jays are on. Okay, see you later, PTC Priestess. She's had enough of us because, you know what, she wants to see Candy Moldonato hit a three-riding former. Paxos, P-Y-U-S-D. That's a stable coin. You hear about this,

P-Y-U-S-D? They did a fat finger this past week where they First off, I just want to say this, this is a stable coin. It's not a terribly large one, but it's got like almost $3 billion in market cap. The bigger ones like tether and circle. It's huge. So $181 billion for tether and $75 billion for circle. That's their market cap compared to almost $3 billion for P-Y-U-S-D. Some funny thing happened.

There was a 300 million token. error they said they were having actually was trillion they're saying there was an issue that they had with internal transfer they immediately burned it and but it looks like it was 300 trillion tokens were created somebody fucking fat finger to put too many zeros something happened something happened like this with tether as well a couple of years ago maybe it was more than a couple years ago but tether did the same thing and they also burnt burnt it after burnt them afterwards you know the The story here is that it's possible. It is pot.

Like, okay, okay. You heard of the market cap of the global GDP, by the way. Yeah, $300 trillion. Like, okay. A lot of these. A lot of these. The math doesn't map when you see that. But the idea that, like, this is a thing that can happen with these stable coins.

Yeah. It can happen. Now, are these stable coins better than traditional fiat rails? Maybe. Maybe not. It just seemed pretty normal. It seems like pretty much like par for the course. It seems like exactly what these things are, what the regular system is.

If you're in a position where you can make an error like that, then, you know, I guess probabilities say that at some point you will make an error if you can. And the retort to that from their side to us might be, well, look at. Bitcoin. How many people have made mistakes with Bitcoin selling something, you know, sending Bitcoin to the wrong address or, you know, fat fingering a Bitcoin transaction. But when you make a mistake in Bitcoin, you're fucking yourself. Right? These guys, this type of stuff, they're fucking everybody. The only comparable one can make is the inflation bug. That is it. Correct. And so that was, but that was a bug in a system rather than somebody going in there and making it.

This is truly centralized. Yes. There's no way I can run a node to verify how many tokens are in circulation. When I quoted those market caps, that's based on what they're telling me. I can't verify there are that many tokens out in the wild. If they have the ability to create and burn it will, they have sloppy internal controls on top of this. It's a shit coin. It's a shikwin, a digital shik coin of a shik coin.

That's what it is. That's what it is. You know what? I think it's a good time to wrap up the Bitcoin side of things. What do you say? Unless you have anything else you want to talk about on Bitcoin side. No, not really. Nothing comes.

Like I said, like I was in Montreal all weekend and I'm still glowing in the effect of all that. So I haven't really been keeping up with the news as much as I usually do. I didn't put in my 40 hours a week this week, Len. I didn't get my zero. I didn't get my 40 hours in. You'll get there. Don't worry. Because of the AWS outage, don't worry.

That's stuff like duolingo and all that stuff went down to. So you're in good company. And then never reach their goal. I'll read one of these Bitcoin books instead. So on the audio side, we'll be back at this tomorrow. And if you're watching this on video, do nothing. Because we'll be back. Oh, just continue like we normally do.

so last words boomer don't be a cuck don't be a fucking cuck i love it