The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Digital Asset Stockpile? Eth Implodes, International Students Nuked | The CBP 200 Pt. 1 (Bitcoin Podcast)

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES This week: What's in the Digital Asset Stockpile? Ethereum Infighting Causes Issues Canadian CPI Numbers Show Signs of BRRRRR International Students Getting Nuked Fake Bitcoiners Printing Meme Coins Ledger Exec Gets Kidnapped Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

friends and enemies welcome back the canadian bitcoiners podcast len this is our 200th episode i don't know if you know oh no no i was done aware yeah wow in this uh bunch i guess yeah almost trying to put it it's been four years in a couple months three months two months yeah coming up on that so a long time going at this show. And I'm sure there's a lot more to come. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for tuning in. It's been outstanding. I think this year is

going to be a fun year for Bitcoin and Bitcoiners. But it's just another year that you and I get to get together Monday night with a few of our closest friends and chop it up on all the things that are going on in Bitcoin. We got a lot to talk about tonight. Before we do that, let's get into the sponsors. EasyDNS, Mark is the man when it comes to registrar. He's your friendly neighborhood registrar,

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okay let's um let's do some housekeeping first last week on the show who do we have len phil bach former managing director of uh the new york stock exchange and did i do a tuesday show too i think i did as mayor kent maybe last week did lower your volume? Because it's a little bit lower now. Is it? Yeah. He can't hear you. So he boomed us to saying that. Even I had to.

Okay, hold on. Hold on. Yeah, maybe. Hold on. Let me check. So it wasn't just me. It's not my hearing is going bad. So yeah, we had Phil Bach on the show last week.

Oh, Phil Bach. How about now? Is it better now? No. No? No. What? So we had him on the show. Joey interviewed him last how about now it's better now no no no what so we had him on the show joey interviewed him last week as well we had somebody else gosh i'm gonna have to go

through the archives to find who else joey interviewed last week it's quality entertainment here so uh let's see yeah you're still kind of low over there for whatever reason joey i don't know why now that's way better yeah yeah better now yeah and we had ken sim mayor ken sim come on last week and he's the mayor of vancouver can i just say that he was a great interview i i i cannot i cannot stress enough i said this to him during the show and i told him after the show as well that you know then i joked before before in the intro to that show, thank you for listening, Len, by the way, clearly you didn't listen, that you and I have rejected requests for interview on this show from CBC, Toronto Star, and politicians who I will not name.

And the reason we do it is always why. I just don't think it's worth the time for the listener. I don't think it's worth the time for the viewer. And I don't think it's worth the time for the listener. I don't think it's worth the time for the viewer. And I don't think it's worth my time. I don't want to have someone come on the show and give me prepackaged answers and try and twist my words and all this other bullshit that you deal with when you talk to the media and when you talk to politicians. And when Mayor Ken Simms' office reached out to us, my first instinct was to say no. And when I thought about it for 10 minutes after we spoke,

I thought, you know what? We should do it because this guy is trying to be a Bitcoiner and he's doing good work for Vancouver. He's been the mayor for two years. Let's have him on. And listening to a few interviews he's done, Len, he's always a straight shooter. The guy truly is the kind of politician you want. A guy who, like he says, views his work as a politician as a passion project. That's not a negative connotation. It's, I care about the city. I care about the job I'm doing. I do not care if I get reelected. I have to do the right thing. That's important. So he was really good. And then Phil Bach, I thought, for a guy who was, again, managing director of the New York

Stock Exchange for six years, has founded companies, has done ET. This guy's done it all in traditional finance. And for him to come on and decide that instead of talking markets, he wants to talk about just things that are going on in the world and how he feels about narratives and how he feels about culture. That's that's another thing I liked about Phil, like for a guy who's, you know, who could be guarded and could be very averse to having difficult or potentially controversial conversations because of his roles and because of

the things he's planning on doing in the future. Instead, he goes all like, you can't, you can't beat guys who want to go all in on the things they think and the things they believe. And, you know,

truly appreciate the, both those guys for their time time because they could be doing a lot of other shit besides talking to me on a you know weeknight and for them to come on our program land says a lot about them i was really happy with both those interviews that's winter time what else you're going to be doing in a weekday so i don't know i mean for kenny it was like four o'clock so he could be like you know going to get a beer somewhere or something going to see his kids i don't know could be wrapping up council i'm not sure if they're in session and i don't know good question i have i have no clue but either way he's out there he's promoting a lot what he's doing with bitcoin and he was accepting

bitcoin part of his campaign quite some time ago so he two years ago he ran so yeah he's been um he's not new for sure and i want to thank jeff booth too jeff booth was the one who told the mayor's office to reach out to len and i um so i appreciate that jeff thank you very much for thinking of us yeah joey for this segment this week sorry btc bap zach from uh spaces uh bitcoin space denver is coming on i've said before i've been critical of this whole like group working area i don't know why you'd go to a group working area um you know odell's got one in nashville obviously uh there's another one probably in new york i think i forget where um and there are others all around the country all around the world i don't get the hype. Zach's going to tell

me why I'm wrong. And I don't know, Len, maybe we'll rent out a room in your house or something and start doing Bitcoin podcasts there. What do you think? Are these people paying for these? I think they're paying. I don't want to say it's like WeWork because that's definitely got a negative connotation around it now.

But it's basically a place where Bitcoiners get together, make content, and do kinds of collaborative work. It's not all content, but think stuff like policy or stuff like engaging local politicians. It's a meeting place that's geared toward Bitcoin where you can bring people, I suppose of all stripes, political, religious or otherwise, and just have them in there and talk hard money i think i think i mean zach will tell me on wednesday that'll be a good show is it a place you could do ddos attacks we start them up i don't know maybe sure yeah why you know any uh foreign ai that needs to be ddos i don't know but one was as you mentioned hit today which i find to be pretty funny as soon

as they released it got all this i mean it was maybe releasing the wild for some time but as soon as it got all the publicity boom they got nailed by that yes i found it to be really funny and man oh man how fragile their markets just release one app you could tank a company crazy crazy i don't want you to go down was like 100 million nvidia today uh i don't know. I was tracking it one time. Hundreds of billions. It was 600 billion at one point. It was down 17% today.

So probably finished even higher than that. Like even lower than that. Six billion. That's like one third of the overall market cap of Bitcoin. That's a hundred. That's a hundred liberal fall economic statements of $20 billion misses. That's another way yeah well we'll talk about the rigging later on oh man shout out to my guy aria chandra aria whatever yeah area i don't know so i may butcher you we asked him to come on sir you're more than

welcome anyway yeah i mean nice to chat. That guy is probably... Are we starting there? Where are we starting? We got to do boosts. Let's do big points. Do the boosts. Do the boosts. Well, you know what?

That's what I want to say. I couldn't fucking get the boost from Fountain. Oh, my God. I can't... I can see people are boosting us. Get Oscar Mary on the phone. I'm going to have to talk with them. I can't find the fucking information.

So every time I go there, I get timed out. Oh, no. Thank you for boosting us, people. But unfortunately, I can't read them because... We can see the stats. We cannot see the comments. Yeah, what the fuck? So thank you very much.

We'll make a few up along the way. It's going to be the one guy who sends us the cheers emojis all the time. Yeah. Unknown username. Yeah. MobTC Dick, 21 sats. Yeah. Who else? I don't know. The people. Yeah. yeah um mo btc dick 21 sats yeah well it's always the people yeah anyways let's dive into the bitcoin i should tell you uh i forgot to tell you this off air i'll tell you on air i sent uh mark ripito an extra large cbp shirt so one less than the uh stable just so you know

all right i don't even know what's in inventory right now. I can't remember. Not much. Just a couple stragglers left. Yeah. Well, Ross is good with him because he was free this past week, right? Yeah. During last week's show, by the way, I think was the... Was it on the 20th? No, because Trump was inaugurated on the 20th

when we did the show that day. It was the very next day. Ah. It wasn't a day one executive order. It could have been during Mayor Tim's sims show maybe it was during a show i remember seeing in the live chat but it could have been that tuesday show you're right yeah so you know interestingly enough he wasn't given a like a commuting of a sentence he was giving a full pardon and there's a difference between the two of a community because the commuting of a sentence has him finish his jail term, but still has on the record, his record, the crime itself. The full pardoning basically excludes that. It erases it from his record.

So moving forward, in case he has to apply for a job, a passport, whatever the heck, he doesn't have anything on his record that will prevent him from getting whatever he has to get, like even loans, whatever. So really it's a big move by Donald Trump. And he's done this at the behest of all the Bitcoiners out there trying to urge him on.

Let's be honest, if it wasn't for a lot of people out there, and I wasn't one of them, like I've been pretty quiet on the whole Ross front. There's been a lot of people that have been very vocal and good for them to make this happen. And a lot of Bitcoiners obviously rejoiced

because this is a big move by trump and it shows that he's listening to a group of folks who have yet to have been listened to before which are bitcoiners when was the last time that a prominent politician aside from maybe appeased a lot of these bitcoiners out there you know don't say lummis anymore um i don't know it's rare it's rare you know you're right yeah so you know if you go back to ross and i without going too far into it i mean really i think the the thing that people were pissed off at was really one of two things it's either the length of his sentence or the fact that he is serving time right like the sentence was two life terms consecutively

so and plus another 40 years on top of that so you know really it would be the rest of his natural life in there murderers have gotten far less than that especially if you're here illegally you get a lot less so like it's fucking insane by the way but yeah ross congratulations doesn't need to be in jail uh well they didn't have anybody killed just ran a website where people were selling t-shirts and and other shit and drugs and drugs there's a lot we don't know that's the reality is i all i could say definitively is that the length of the sentence was incorrect yeah somebody was trying to make an uh example out of him or he rubbed somebody the wrong way for sure maybe a combination of the two the fact that he should have been in prison or not i don't

know i i don't know all the facts and everybody out there really, it's hard for them to absorb all the facts from, you know, from what I gather, what did he do? What did he need to do? Really? Only he knows maybe the people that investigated this. Other than that,

I mean, yeah, though it's a good thing he's out because like I said, the sentence was too darn long. And one good thing he did with Bitcoin, he proved that there's it could be used as a medium of exchange and to this day it's not really being used as a medium of exchange this is the one thing that's really holding back bitcoin in my opinion and i'm guilty of this too

i'm not using it as a medium of exchange but i'm using them over store value just like a lot of other people are right but the website he ran the only way on one of the ways you could uh buy stuff would be with bitcoin so that proved there is a case use for bitcoin and that was done at an early time long before bitcoin was on the radar of some folks so that website alone helped move bitcoin along and helped mature it much faster than it would if that website wasn't in existence. So with that being said, like you got to give him credit for putting that website out there and helping push Bitcoin further along in its maturity process. Not much else to say about it, really.

I mean, it's pretty cut and dry. It's overdue. I see Boomer in the chat talking about how libertarians played a role. There's some debate about that. I think that really this is a lot more to do with Bitcoiners than it is to do with libertarians. Now, libertarians, of course, want the guy to be free as well but had basically no voice uh including the president of the libertarian party who seems to in the last like week have become semi you know niche internet micro famous because she was in the space i guess

and ross's mother called her and told her first but i really do attribute this to the bitcoiners not only because we were the loudest voice, Len, but because Bitcoiners, especially in the United States, they just made so many campaign contributions to Trump and had so many positive points of contact with Trump. There's almost no doubt that that was the thing that pushed it over the edge. So libertarians, it wasn't a zero, but it's not even close to the influence that the bitcoin crowd had in my opinion it seems to me like that's pretty obvious i have nothing to add to that i really this whole topic there's not much i could say about it because as much as i sympathize with

him it's hard for me to really just talk much about it because i didn't it's a story i don't know why it just didn't interest me all that much i feel bad for the fact he was put in jail for that length of time but again without knowing all the facts and it's impossible for me to know all the facts totally for whatever reason i just i never found it to be all that appealing a story but in the end yeah he lost his basically his 30s or it's gone yeah that's a good chunk of his life you know um earning power and there's so many things you could do in your 30s what do you make of this bit about the story that he's got like dormant bitcoin 250 000 dormant bitcoin i have no opinion on that do you think that's the case

i don't know honestly i i suppose i'll find out i mean someone was i think it was uh one of these like xbt accounts on twitter that was tracking what they thought were the wallets that belong to albrecht so i don't know i mean the silk road bitcoin was confiscated but his personal bitcoin perhaps not i guess we'll find out leads to the question if indeed he has it could it become should it become the bitcoin of the strategic reserve i don't know i'm not sure yeah i mean i don't know what the laws like now that the sentence has been pardoned or sorry this crime's been pardoned if indeed he has it and he starts flaunting he has it and you know using it for

transaction yeah does the united states have any claim to it saying you know based on it'd be a tough sell right because they he's been pardoned yeah so right so like i don't know maybe that was part of the uh backdoor you know dealings i have no idea i wish i know it's interesting though good interesting legal question for for one of you legal heads out there and to be perfectly honest in the end it's it's going to be up to the judge and his or her how she's what or he woke up that morning and decided how they're laws don't yeah laws don't matter in the united states is the secret here all right whoever people think this is the best thing for me yeah well like this digital asset stockpile what people were thinking was supposed to oh

what a what a mess can we can we take a victory victory lap here do we have any uh non-trademark victory lap music if we i should have thought about this before me and you have been steadfast on this program i think in my opinion about whether or not we should be embracing politicians who support bitcoin we had so many live chat comments over the years and so many comments from guests and so many comments from people who tweet at us and email us and fucking leave comments. If there's a place to leave me a comment, I've seen it. And it's always, we need to support people like Cynthia Lummis. We need to support politicians who want to do Bitcoin properly. We need to support people who want to do the reserve. They... Like I said on this show so many fucking times

that all Lummis' bills had crypto in them. All of them. That all these bills about SAB21 and about fair accounting. Like it's all crypto, crypto, crypto. We were critical and have continued to be critical of Michael Saylor. Doesn't stop me from making a mint on mstr

But i'll tell you that we've been critical of that guy when almost every other podcast was slobbing his knob over the last five years He's the bitcoin ceo. He's driving bitcoin the trump max the at the money issuance. It's an infinite money glitch. All that shit is fine. But what's he tweeting now? What's he tweeting? Crypto.

Crypto. Friend of the show SB and I had a discussion about this off the air. I should just bring him on one day and we'll just go back and forth with each other on this. About whether or not Saylor is just playing the game. This is an argument i've heard a bunch of maybe he is maybe he isn't but i don't think the people who were again like trying to suck the unborn kids out of his cock

okay over the last five years would have told you that he was quote-unquote playing the game they told you he was the maxi. They put that there is no second best video everywhere. Well, sure. Shit seems like you think there's a second best now, Mike, doesn't it?

That, that was a dishonest, you know, I think a dishonest period to be quite frank with you, um, where he was not being completely forthcoming about what he thought, what he was supporting and this, that, and the other thing. Now, this is not to say that a strategic crypto asset reserve,

whatever the fuck David Snakes is pushing on Trump, is not going to be good for the Bitcoin price. It is. But is it good that we embrace, I say we, that the United States embraces all this other garbage, Ethereum, Solana, whatever. Sachs is a VC guy.

There's a lot of VC guys around Trump now. Trump is a guy who likes making money. Who doesn't, by the way? Not a negative personality trait. But if you think that all this stuff is going to be good for quote-unquote Bitcoin as the apex asset, I honestly don't think it is. But if you think that all this stuff is going to be good for a quote unquote, like Bitcoin as the apex asset, I honestly don't think it is.

Doesn't mean number's not going to go up. Doesn't mean that people are not going to be richer for holding Bitcoin. But it does mean that people are going to be less sovereign because they're holding other shit instead, trying to make a quick buck. And that really is the thing you have to think about in a lot of ways. Are you going to bring people in with the shiny object dangling over them and say, look, if you own all these other things, look at the stuff the Trump organization just bought. They bought Solana, they bought Ethereum, they bought whatever else, some other shit coins, I forget what. We should just mirror that bag because there's no way those kids would be buying stuff that

wasn't going to be in the reserve. There's no way the kids would be buying stuff that wasn't going to be supported by the government in some way, implicit, explicit, or otherwise. Those people will buy that stuff and they will lose on the sovereignty. They will lose on the freedom that Bitcoin grants, censorship resistance, the portability, fungibility. You can do that if you like and be perfectly happy, I guess. But the idea that all these guys who were like, I'm running out of ways to describe

the hoovering of this guy's tip that was going on over the last five years. And all the while, me and you were saying something right here i think we deserve some flowers for that um we'll see what happens and we'll see if mike you know ends up changing his tune at all i don't know maybe he'll stay a maxi maybe he is just playing the game maybe all this this will be for not. And you and me will be laughing on a, you know, Italian peninsula in five years, just rolling in, in absolutely monster UTXOs or, and maybe not,

you know, who knows? Well, you've been more critical of him than I have. Yeah. But whatever you, but you haven't been uncritical. You haven't been slurping.

You haven't been glazing. You've just been sitting. I like, I've said this before and I'll say it again i don't want his company to not succeed i prefer to succeed i have no skin in the game i don't want to see it fall on its sword and die um he is at the very least he has brought bitcoin to talk to it into wall street i'll i'll give him credit there i wish i wish and i say this a lot i'll say it again i wish that they did buy bitcoin and store it themselves

and hold on to the keys why why one of the beautiful things about bitcoin is if because it's digital you don't have to have it physically stored somewhere else like fucking gold you you could just hold on your keys and that's one of the things i wish that they'd done as as a company and just prove that something that this is the way things should be done and they never done that i don't want it that's a dead horse i don't want to keep beating it but um it's it's too bad given he's talking about crypto these days maybe he is playing a game i don't know in the end he's still going to do what he has to do he's he's still going to sell that he's still going to dilute and he's still going to try it to buy more bitcoin i don't know in the end he's still gonna do what he has to do he's he's still gonna to sell that he's still gonna dilute and he's still gonna try it to buy more bitcoin i don't see him but he's also now hedging a little bit i think like i'm not an expert i was just gonna say that i think

he's running about bitcoin well am i wrong no but he's hedging because he's introduced a preferred stock right what is this i so i saw that it's not more fiat i mean i i can't stay in this fucking shit by the way we need sb to give us a breakdown on this because i i am not in a position to talk about this but you know like it seems to me he he was all about at the money accruing bitcoin stats per share all that stuff oh that that's another thing that's fucking and this is different this is different so like why issue this you can i don't know how much money today huh how much money we said we said nvidia lost 600 billion 700 billion something like that and i don't know what if meta lost anything i have no idea if microsoft i don't i don't have a fucking clue like so many people are losing their minds because of the amount of wealth that they lost today they're really and i can say this confidently the only thing i care about really is how many

sats i have tomorrow compared to today and if the number is higher i'm happy i don't care if the if the value of the bitcoin has gone down relative to us dollar in that one day because you know in 10 years it's going to be way higher i don't have to think about all this shit after hours looking at charge reading fucking news what i'm going to invest in next the only thing i fucking buy is the one thing is bitcoin that's the one thing people should so when he's talking about doing this selling these preferred shares and all this it's just fiat trash you know like it's just more things you got to read more things you got to fucking dive into and all that time you just simply just fucking buy bitcoin and do something else in the meantime just wait right that's it

no one is saying you're wrong but i i will say that i'm i have to at least you know quantify or give a little bit more disclosure here about the mstr common common versus preferred he says that he's going to use the preferred stock income to buy bitcoin remains to be seen part of the that wasn't doing this by the way by the way this was not he did a fucking hour-long presentation at the q3 call in 24 about this you know 80 billion dollar whatever was was, $42 billion plan, 21, 21, 21, right? And he didn't mention preferred stock even once. And then four months later, he's issuing a preferred stock.

So again, the lesson here, and I think the takeaway here, is you cannot give your trust to anyone. You cannot stake your wealth on anyone. There is such a thing as operator risk. This is operator risk on stilts. You are at the mercy of this guy's whims and impulses, best and worst, if you are an MSTR. If you can handle that, cool. I'm guilty. I've been there. I still have some MSTR. That's what I'm doing. Len is not doing that. You don't have to do it either. But you're at the point now where this guy is doing stuff that he didn't tell you he was going to do four months ago as part of this plan for 42 billion. So this is separate or a little bit of a hedge.

I don't know. Someone's got to tell me what I should be looking at here to make a decision. But to me, yeah, could do without, honestly, at this point, all this stuff. There's never been a better time. I shouldn't say better. There's never been an easier time to buy Bitcoin and basically not worry about anything except

the US dollar price if that's what you're worried about. You don't have to worry about legislation. You don't have to worry about, I don't think for much longer, tax implications. I think you're probably fine on all those fronts over a 10-year plus horizon. So there have been a time where the the the tailwinds have been more obvious for bitcoin and the headwinds in traditional finance including mstr have been um you know as strong as they are now maybe now someone for sure is going to chew my head off for that but i just it's interesting is all i'm saying and it's something that we have to keep an eye on that's it there'll be a point in time and i know you said it looks like that's not going to be the case but it makes like there may be a point in time in the future that it will be harder to buy bitcoin wherever you live and so why why is that it's going to go the way the dodo at some

point for sure so why make it why risk it why not just buy what you can now and avoid later on when you're going to have to liquidate? Well, okay, let me ask you something. It'll be difficult to do it. I can't predict the future, but I can tell you it's easy now. Did you see the faint comments about tokenizing equities? Yeah. I mean, I glossed over it, but yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with it. People, the sort of midwit is saying, well, how does tokenizing equities help with anything? I can already buy and sell 24-7, blah, blah, blah. Tokenizing equities-

You're taking away a lot of the middle person there with brokerages and- It becomes P2P a little bit, right? And if you can start using tokenized equities, it's funny. Every time we talk about stores of value, mediums of exchange, or spoke about this, let's say five years ago, people would always say, why would I, I would much rather, or you say to people, everyone is storing value in Apple stock instead of cash. No one keeps cash. They'd much rather keep it in Apple stock.

That was sort of the standard. And it actually is still the standard in a lot of ways, to be honest with you. So people who keep their cash in Apple stock will say to you when they're talking about why they don't own Bitcoin, they'll say, yeah, people value Apple stock, but it doesn't mean that it's cash. No one will give you Apple stock for services or goods. Well, now they can if they go this direction. There'll be some regulations around it, I'm sure. But the question is is who owns it? Yeah.

I agree. Right. Right. Like it's going to probably be a note of one. Yeah. Whoever was the issue. You're right. You're totally right.

But that's not, but that's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is like tokenizing equities and allowing them to be sort of P2P. If they go that direction, like you will see cash disappear overnight no one is going to want cash for almost anything if you if you can give them nvidia apple microsoft google stock bitcoin whatever you're not buying nvidia or google or whatever with cash right now it's still very much electronic it's with your bank you move it

to your yeah but if you tokenize i'm saying cash is a totally different thing cash is slowly dwindling in terms of usage less people are using it now there was 10 years okay so i'm not i'm not necessarily talking physical cash okay we can talk about bank account tokens are you talking about just general cash yeah yeah like why like who currency, CAD, for anything if they could have Apple stock instead? I'm leaning on Apple stock here, but it's sort of representative of the broader... Now, it goes to the question, is it going to be taxed the same way as a commodity the same way Bitcoin? That's a good question. That's what I don't know, right?

If it is, then very few people are going to use it as a medium of exchange because that's an administrative headache if you're going to adhere to the letter of the law of the land yeah and if that's the case you convert to cash use that and then you don't think we got to find out what fink wants right i don't understand how much power this guy has all of it all of it i i still don't i still don't get it i mean bitcoin should make this guy irrelevant you You know what I mean? It should make this guy a footnote in financial history. It's a lot of money over there, Len. It's a lot of influence. It's a lot of money, but what could he do if you're holding

on to a worthless piece of paper in the end? If he... They, as a company, they manage a whole bunch of things, but really, that has to be converted into Bitcoin somehow to make them worthwhile moving forward i think i don't know i whatever i don't give a fuck about everything i don't mean either it's just it's just interesting it's interesting thought experiment right like equities over cad or or us dollars well this sab 121 this is the

the banks that could just be bitcoin came out this week yeah sec decided to rescind that order and there's a discussion going on in one of the chats we're enjoying and it was discussing does this make etfs a bitcoin etf obsolete because now you could simply just buy with the bank and have them hold it so managing fees management fees are pretty much identical if you look at typical management fees for holding out the gold for instance versus etf the gold etf so you look at this it's just another offering i i don't know how big a deal this is in the end it just gives them the opportunity to hold bitcoin and i i you know they're insolvent banks already are insolvent would you trust them to hold on to your fucking keys if you

have the option hell no so why would anybody even use this as an option when it comes to bitcoin i could kind of figure out why you want to use the etf because there's those tax advantage accounts like in canada we have the tfsa rsp but why would anyone want to use the bank when you could just it's terrible. It's actually even worse than that. Am I wrong? No, you're totally right. And you can even go a step further.

The reason you would hold the ETF is the tax advantage for sure. But also because it's easier to sell back to CAD in the ETF than it would be going to the bank and doing a transaction. It's actually crazy how much nonsense paperwork the bank makes you do for the most mundane things. I'll give you an example. Last week, I had to go to the bank because I received a letter from TD saying that a bank draft that I drew up in 2018 had not been cashed seven years ago.

Okay. So they made seven years to tell me, number one. I drew up a bank draft. My wife and I will meet. When we moved in, we moved in. Okay. So this is a long story, but I'll tell you. In 2016, my wife and I moved in. Okay. So this is a long story, but I'll tell you. In 2016, my wife and I moved

in together. And before we moved in, I went to a lawyer and had him draw up what the millennials would call a known up. Okay. So I don't want my wife to have access to any of my savings, any of my investments, any of my retirement funding. I don't want anything to do with a court battle if we have a falling out. And the other big thing was that if we buy the house together, then the house is sold if there's a split in the relationship. No one's buying me out. No one's getting bought out. The house is getting sold. That's all there is to it. Sold, split down the middle. So I went to this lawyer, had him draw it up and he sent me the first draft. And when I showed it to my wife, we went through it together and there was tons of

mistakes, tons of mistakes in it. Not only in the content and what I asked for in terms of the actual legality of the thing, but little shit like names, dates, my address, all this stuff. He didn't pay any attention to what I told him. And so I emailed him and said, we're not going to be using it anymore. And I thanked him for his time. He sent me an invoice for, I think about a thousand dollars. And I decided that I wasn't going to pay it. And then when his office was getting ready to close, he was retiring. I understand. They sent me another email and said, look look you still owe this money uh we're gonna send to collections if you don't pay so i wrote him a letter and i uh wrote him

a 350 bank draft we gave him a 350 bank draft and i said you know you really should basically you really should the bet on the service and the product was subpar but i do appreciate that your time is not free and so i want to meet you in the middle here i'll assume if i don't hear from you again that this matter is closed and uh so i never heard from the guy again until the last week get this letter to the bank yeah that bank draft could be sitting in on his fucking backseat mantle in his car or something yeah yeah you know and so he never cashed it. I went to the bank. He Ricky Henderson'd that thing. Yeah, exactly. He fucking Ricky. He put it in his wall.

I went to the bank to get the money back. I was there for almost half an hour, Len, signing my name on document after document, telling them the authentication code on my phone. They were sending me these text messages to make sure it was me, asking me where I live now and about the bank draft and about the service rendered and all this other tons of shit. sending me these text messages to make sure it was me uh asking me where i live now and that about

the bank draft and about the service rendered and all this other tons of shit for 350 can you imagine what they would ask you for if you wanted to sell or send bitcoin that they were holding how long the process that would be could you imagine just running this in my head at the time too that was worth almost 10 of a bitcoin at the low around that time like that's it's an incredible amount it was what i mean i know it's a totally different topic altogether certainly the banks are uh very inefficient with with the way they do things like that's all they know i'm your time there's also bank tellers not as hot as either which is another downside going to the bank used to mean at least you get like a decent looking

bank teller so you know david don't throw your tomatoes i don't give a shit what you think joey's being a jerk off no fuck you the banks used to at least be fun for those reasons right and now they're just not fun at all there's nothing fun at the bank. Nothing. You wait in lines. You sign paperwork. No one's talking. The music's shit. They got a running billboard behind them or TV with all the advertising about how they're all pursuing carbon neutral shit and

interest rates are sky high. Interest rate on savings is around 0.05%. Sign up today. I want a bond. I want a five-year right now, man. GICs and pictures of kids in a field with a dog. GICs get you into a fucking food bank if they got food for you when you get there, of course.

Broadly speaking, banks, just absolute nightmare. Terrible. Absolutely fucking brutal. Yeah, Mark in the chat likes loss. It's so true. It's honestly unbelievable that the banks... This is the other funny thing, right? I just want to go back if imagine if you just sent bitcoin and you could verify it was sent and it's gone it's the yeah that's it that is so

simple you wanted that guy probably would have been happier too you know he would have got one tenth of a bitcoin it is i know he worked around 10k us money fucking brutal i couldn't believe it i could not believe. Just the two things that were big for me was the amount of paperwork I had to sign over $350. But the other thing, Len, that bank draft is seven years old. You waited seven years to tell me that no one cashed it? Seven years.

They had to make sure. What if it was fucking... What if it was... No, you know what the problem is, Len? That money is collecting interest for them somehow, some way. For sure. I don't know how. was no you know what the problem is len that money is collecting interest for them somehow some way for sure i don't know how i don't know what the mechanism is but for sure they're not just letting that money float in the ether for that long and so that's why they wait super that's how they're going to remain solvent so when there's a bank run they're going to be holding on to a bunch of people's bank drafts worth 350 dollars and that's

going to be able to keep them their heads above water so this might be their way of just mitigating any bank runs unbelievable cash don't tell process anyway so if you need the name of a lawyer who won't take your money let me know he's retired only guy on the planet who won't take the money he said but he's retired and he's retired he's long gone anyway stab 121 the thing. The thing that this is important, this is important for two reasons. The holding your Bitcoin thing is one piece. People can go to the bank to hold Bitcoin. Before SAP 121, there used to be a rule that if you held Bitcoin, you had to hold it. How? As a liability. So you had to collateralize that liability with more cash or more fixed income, whatever, or more fixed securities, fixed income securities. What are they called? I forget. Bonds or whatever. Treasury notes, short-term loans, whatever. And banks were just like, no, we can't

do that. The Bitcoin we're getting now is not $3,000 of Bitcoin. It's $100,000 of Bitcoin. How am I supposed to hold this and have to collateralize it two to one or one and a half to one? Those rules were all different. Not to mention that the big thing with SAB 121 was that even the banks that wanted to do it and collateralize it were told under the table, you better not because if you do, the scrutiny that we're going to put on your head is going to be something that you're not ready for.

It's going to cause problems for your operations. It's going to cause problems for your your mental health and so all these things were going on so i'm i'm happy to see this repealed or on its way to um uh on its way to repeal fantastic it's great whatever it just it's direction signpost thinking directionally the one big thing i don't care about strategic reserve i don't care about even countries mining bitcoin i mean to a degree i care about that one but i think the big one is not having be subjected to taxes like capital gains taxes to minimus taxes yeah like if when you have that removed that is going to be monumental. Then you basically say, yeah, it could be used as a medium of exchange

without all the fucking headaches that go along with it right now. So Roger Ver would agree with that one, I think. Former U.S. citizen Roger Ver now asking for a pardon, even though he renounced his citizenship. Whoops. I made a mistake there, Rog. So who the heck was it?ameson lop that was he wrote up something interesting today on him he said the problem with this is that he may have

renounced his citizenship but he had to have paid an exit tax and when he left the united states he said his claim his uh bitcoin holdings were zero and so that's so you know even though he may have been living in in different country all this time and renounced his citizenship and all that jazz still there's the the thing he didn't pay his exit tax so that goes to show you if you have bitcoin and you don't pay that they can come after you later on and just fuck with you especially if there's an extradition treaty between the country where you're living in and the country which you've left so do your research if you're gonna not do that do your research do your research yes thor chain you

heard about the shit coin project frozen frozen insolvent lock it down unable to meet their obligations their financial obligations that's what i say to my wife when it's my turn to you know do the chores i'm unable to meet my obligations. You know, they were offering yield on like Bitcoin and ETH and other things too. Like the question, like how do you get yield? Especially on Bitcoin too, right? That's a, I don't, whatever. So a lot of questions, I guess,

we'll never get answered because this thing is insolvent. At least, I mean, they're trying their best to keep this thing alive. I don't fucking care care but it leads me to the next thing this is the one i really want to talk about and he's to dust off an old segment of the show which is a no-coiner and because the no-coiner of the week which is this fred krueger guy which oh god oh god is there is there a better no-coiner of the week than this motherfucker because he was out there and he was pushing this thing i have no idea i muted this motherfucker a long time ago but this guy was a was able to get

on prominent podcasts people a slick talker he maybe he's a phd and whatever the fuck he's in whatever the fuck but you could be a smart dude you could be you could have a silver tongue but still the message if you can't fucking see through it and see the guy's fucking selling you snake oil you're fucked and there's a lot of people like bitcoin bookland he wrote a bitcoin book that deserves to be never bought just let it fucking collect dust this guy deserves no royalties on top of all that then he released a shit coin this past week i have no idea what the fuck it was, but apparently he rugged people for $1 million.

I don't know what exactly it was. I thought he did it twice. Even twice now. Okay, it's twice the no coin of the week. Actually, three times, including his association with Thor Chain. Why? People out there, they have to fucking, they got to do their due diligence when you're dealing

with people like this he doesn't deserve the airtime i don't understand how he has that many men of all i still don't know how the fuck he got on all these shows like people just i hope he disappears but unfortunately he's still going to stick around for whatever reason he's still quote unquote a prominent member of the community how even though with his association with all this garbage he's still around fuck him like i i hope he goes into the obscurity and is never heard of again don't buy his books don't listen to him mute his fucking thing don't give him any fucking airtime don't give don't give him any views on his twitter account because then he's going to get x account he's going to get paid for it just fucking let him rot he could just fucking rot

in hell after this just fucking him fuck him you want to know how he got um all those followers all those views i'll tell you i don't know i'll tell you how i'll tell you that he he got them because much like we've seen in the content space over the last year or so, everyone has gone to this brain rot slot model of moon boy commentary. And so you see it in titles, you see it in thumbnails, you see it all over the place. One trillion, this giant, that giant, 1.2 trillion. He's buying Bitcoin. He's sending Bitcoin to the moon. I mean, it's all bullshit.

It's low IQ, trafficking nonsense, right? Fine. We're never going to do that, I mean, it's all bullshit. It's low IQ, traffic and nonsense, right? Fine. We're never going to do that, by the way, on this program. No fucking way. But when you look at his content, it is the same in theme, even if it's just a little higher brow in terms of visuals

and production. And so when he gets on these Bitcoin First spaces, which I've tuned into, he gets on other podcasts when he gets on these Bitcoin first spaces, which I've tuned into, he gets on other podcasts, he gets on various sort of one-off debates about stuff like the power law with Giovanni, stuff like MSTR with Punter Jeff and Raquan, stuff like, you name it, X, Y, Z. And the commentary is always the same, right? We're going to a million. Nothing can stop it. You need to get on. Here's why you're right. Here's why you're right. Here's why you're right. Here's why you're over and over and over again. This is the thing. It's this constant sort of dopamine tickle, right? And your brain likes it. And if you're into that sort of unrelenting, just bullish narrative all the

time, nonstop, then that's your guy, right? The same way that a lot of channels, I've mentioned them on the show before, I'm not going to do it now. A lot of channels do the same shit on YouTube, right? They just pump out the same garbage all the time. The titles are all the same. You can go, if you type in Bitcoin on YouTube, the likelihood that you see 10 thumbnails that look basically the same with titles that look basically the same with all caps, letters, basically in the same... You're going to see it. Kruger was doing the same thing and it works. There's no doubt about it. It works. The question is, what kind of audience do you get? And the other question is, what kind of person does that?

Well, in this case, we know that both were subpar and definitely not as high quality as you would hope in Bitcoin, which is terrible because he's like an old man. Why? This is the direction you want to go? A guy who claims to be so accomplished, worked on Wall Street, worked at banks, worked in universities, he's got a PhD as he always says, right? Doc, as the MSTR guys call him. You know, you're so accomplished, you had to rug pull a bunch of people.

I think not once, but twice. Once for sure, but maybe twice. I forget. And then as people called you out on it you just made a video saying how you did it but didn't actually explain to people why or how much money you made he's a fiat maximalist he's a con artist is what he is he's a con artist he took a lot of money from a lot of people and if he doesn't give it back then that's all you need to know right and so you know a guy like that with the thick rimmed glasses and that chair that all these rich guys

have and the clickbait titles and the clickbait thumbnails and the moon boy that's what you get that's the kind of audience you get too right these are the same retards you know who buy the things asking for this this is the i think this is the story of the cycle right this this whole moon boy theme and i want to shout out one channel pleb underground uh coin icarus and i think the other guy's name is walton those guys do pretty good content i listen to it as often as i can they never moon boy um guys like robin sayer even you know he's starting to moon boy a little bit.

Um, it's just like, even, even beat C sessions, beat C sessions could do anything with this content. He never moon boys, you know, he's always, he's doing tutorials. He's doing, why are we bullish? He's doing some new stuff. He's never, he's never baiting you into something with a huge number and a Bitcoin's going to a trillion, but Kruger was doing that, basically. And when you have a guy doing that, this is the outcome you can expect.

People who are dumb enough to buy the token, people who are dumb enough to watch, and a guy who's just barely smart enough to make it look like he's got plausible deniability in the whole thing. I was just doing a test. I was just showing how easy it was. We'll give the money back then. No, I don't think so. Okay. Well, that's the whole thing i was just doing a test that was just showing how easy it was we'll give the money back then no i don't think so okay well that's the whole story

uh you know one thing i you just mentioned and that with these two tokens i think one million tokens a week are being minted that's according to coinbase right you're gonna be talking about coinbase now is that where we're here? No. Coinbase wants to crowdsource the token approval process. They want to stop reviewing every token because there's so many being approved or being minted now. He wants it to be basically a free-for-all. Total degeneracy everywhere. See, at one point they were saying that

they only wanted tokens that were, like, it wasn't 50% held by a particular entity yeah like you know it's a pre-mine and it has some rules right yeah so they're following like they're chasing the money here as much as possible but this is a sign that looks like the market is just a fevered pitch could it be that we're now at this is the all-time high for this cycle? I mean, I'm not trying to say that it's going to go down. I don't know what's going to happen. But when you look at it, a million tokens being issued or minted every week, all garbage. There's no fundamentals.

There's nothing along. And these ETFs, there's something like 15 ETFs a week that are being submitted that are related to directly or indirectly to Bitcoin. This is something that's, I look at it and say, man, oh man, this is unsustainable. And eventually there's going to be a lot of interest lost in it.

It's going to be going somewhere else. Plus, you know, just what we saw with, with this new AI, what's it called? Deep. The fuck is it? Deep seek or something?

Deep seek. That's thank you. Yeah. Okay. Like, could you imagine like just somebody releasing an app and it impacts the market to that degree? How fragile is the market

that an application could come out there? Granted, I mean, there's maybe some merit here, but still, just one application could just take hundreds of millions. What is the merit? Hundreds of billions. Yeah, it's crazy. You're right. I think you said this with me and Mark today, right? it's crazy you're right the thing is i think

you said this in the with me and mark today right i think you wrote that like this whole thing is just the house of cards clearly 15 16 on nvidia today how many like what what is the what is nvidia waiting in the uh s&p etfs is it 20 wow i didn't even what is... I was supposed to show you. What's the level of conviction of the NVIDIA investors? If something comes out like this... NVIDIA in the S&P 500, this is VFV. This is the ETF that I use when I buy the index. It's 7 percent exceeded only by apple which is 7.6 percent so that's incredible that's a big weight that's a really big weight and

those are price agnostic buyers right so people are not selling the etf because nvidia goes down it's probably the opposite right those people just buy on repeat on a schedule so so i just want to go back like how paper-handed are these individuals once this thing comes out and they say fuck i'm just going to sell whatever cost whatever price it is i want out i don't want to touch it i don't want to hold it anymore like with respect to bitcoin i can guarantee you if it goes even to like that's ten thousand dollars tomorrow like if it drops literally 90 tomorrow i am not fucking selling i'll buy some more and i'll be happy doing it that's the level of conviction i have of course nobody has

do your own research we don't know your we don't know your particular financial situation no it's not i'm not saying anything just and just this is my opinion this is what i'm doing so i mean i'm just trying to say like i don't know if people have that about nvidia if it drops 90 i'm still gonna fucking hold on to it and i'm gonna buy some more because there's only a certain amount of fucking shares in existence they're not gonna mint anymore and i can hold on to my own shares i can verify it no you can't there's none of this shit's fucking possible never forget the nvidia ceo signed some girl's boob at a press event like three months ago four months ago that might have been the top is there such a thing as a top sign that might be one yeah there you go so what i try to get at is

like the markets in general and including bitcoin who knows what's going to happen with the price and it could really take a tumble and i I think somebody posted an Arthur Hayes article. I don't know if it was you or somebody else. Me and Mark were talking about it in our chat too. And he was saying that it could potentially go down. You can see the 75. All this price talk of where he thinks things can go. Who the hell knows?

But I'm just trying to say just the way I'm looking at things, I don't know. It's possible we could see a pullback as'm looking at things i don't know it's possible we could see a pullback as to what price i don't know what the fuck it could pull back to but obviously there's people you just release something and hundreds of billions of dollars is lost in one particular company about market value like things aren't looking good. We're due for a significant drawdown. There's no sign anywhere that the economy is healthy here, United States, any European country, UK, you name it.

So the question is, when? Is it not? It's not if. It's when. The up and to the right thing is nuts. I saw this great chart the other day of the distance from the mean during some of the biggest bubbles. You had the 08 bubble, the dot-com bubble, and now the mag seven is literally seven times higher than even the closest second place bubble.

And so- the side, you know, it's again, AI chip, middle-aged CEO signing some C cup tit at a press event is a top sign. That is a top sign. You know, going back,

I cannot think of it. When the history books reflect on this period. Okay. That is a top sign. You know, going back, the dot-com bubble. I cannot think of a... When the history books reflect on this period, okay, it's going to be Sam Altperson from OpenAI trying to take the company private and pull up the ladder on the legislation. It's going to be NVIDIA guy signing a boob. It's going to be...

I think Saylor will be in there too fucking probably with this you know equity issuance i don't know visiting islands joey the dot com thing when it blew up is because it it ran out of steam right like it it blew up on its own and it just ran out of steam on its own. 2008, mortgage-backed securities and all this. It was bound to fail. Since then, we haven't had something on its own for some market correction. The 2020 was an external factor. They had to shut down the world in order to make that drop.

So whatever ticking time bomb is still there is waiting to go off. It hasn't yet gone off. And it's approaching 20 years since we've last had the last blow up on its own. So I'm just waiting. What the fuck is it going to be? Because there's some crack in the system somewhere. Don don't forget some people think this is done now the business cycle is done now because of fiscal dominance they're just gonna they'll print out of it and nominally you know so i you know maybe it's maybe that is the case maybe the recessions are only for people who are digging into the data and everyone else is just wondering why the campbell soup is so much more money yeah maybe that's what maybe that's what happens next

right i don't know all i can say is i only want i want more stats tomorrow than i have today yeah that's all i care about in terms of my finances that's it so you know let's just end it we're an hour in. Sure. Yeah. Thanks for coming, everyone. If you're here on video and joining the show live, hang in. We're not going anywhere. If you're on audio, stay tuned for the back half tomorrow. Until then, take care of yourselves. And unfollow and mute Fred Krueger.