The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Finding Your Tribe with Fundamentals and Business Cat (Rock Paper Bitcoin Podcast) | The CBP

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESA special Canadian Bitcoin Conference rip with friends of the show Business Cat and Fundamentals, recorded at one of the worst Air BnB listings on the planet. We had a great chat on family, Bitcoin, and finding your tribe.Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST.   From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

Yeah, I'm here in, I don't know where this is like the weirdest theory I've ever seen. They're separated from the street by a curtain. And by the way, people still just walk in the front door. Yeah, that's fun. Fundamentals and business cat. And we are in the capital of Hasidic Judaism. Wow. You can say that because you are a Jew.

We're going right. I'll say that. Behind the camera, Boomer and D. We just finished day one to the Bitcoin conference. I bought PBRs for everyone and took some shit from Francis on the way in because I guess you can't drink PBR's in New France. So it is what it is How the fuck are you guys there? I want to talk about

You guys can nod or like comments on this I met these guys this morning These people are polar opposites to look at Like one guy walks in with a rainbow Ken hoodie on And then He should be wearing that right now That's a good point I saw him yesterday

He's got the cocktail hour He's got like a looks like he's a You know finance bro or whatever Yeah what was that We had like the Patagonia on Oh dude that's a Mises Institute vest I got my loyalty points. Amazing.

I think people say that about me and Len, too, that we're opposite of each other in a lot of ways. I hear people say on the show that we are different in the way we talk about things and think about things. And our wives both say that they can't believe we do a show together, much less are actually friends. Do you have any comments on that observation from me? I do. Okay. Go ahead. Okay.

You guys, you, Lynn and Boomer. have always reminded me of Like you guys were high school friends Like from the movie American Pie Okay Are you familiar? I haven't seen American Pie in a long time Okay but do you remember it?

Do you remember it? So like You know you would be the guy The guy that like stood up on the table And said no longer will our penises be flaccid You were that guy Len was like shitbreak And he was like behind the scenes

Can like really create a rep Boomer is Jason Biggs, dude. Look at this guy. Who's the guy who bangs the pie? That's Boomer. That's Boomer? It is Jason Bags in that show. But look at him.

He looks exactly. He doesn't how look like Jason Bays. He looks like that guy, the kid. He could have grown in. I get the vibe that you're going with that. So you guys look like we were out. Oh, that's all high school books. Fine, got it.

This could have been all high school boys. Interesting. I don't know if I can sign off on the movie connection, but I definitely identify with you and your co-partner. Yeah. Canadian pop. For sure, yeah, like, fundamentals and I are definitely two ends of some spectrum. Yeah. Like, we're on the same ends of some, like one spectrum, and we're the opposite end of the spectrum.

We should have never met. How did you as a chance meeting? I was driving my daughter to middle of Pennsylvania for a college visit, and I happened to see that there was a meetup in the middle of Pennsylvania. And I said to myself, to my wife and my daughter, we're going to this. We're going to this meetup Because I love Bitcoin On the way? On the way Wow

And it was like at night And That was one of my earlier meetups So I remember being business cat He was wearing He was wearing a pink A hot

You know talking about He was in a hot pink beefsteak hat And you know We come Like it wasn't like Groundbreaking like Hey did you just become my best friend Yeah

But I kept going back to his meetup Okay And then at some point Was he your meetup? It was my meeting This is a meetup. At some point, we realized, like, okay, we are kind of linked up. So I'm the founder of the Central Pennsylvania Bitcoiners meetup. And this was probably about a year into me having the meetup, but it was probably, this probably might have

been my second or third actual physical event that I had. I was doing like... September 20, 22. Okay, yeah. For those scoring it on. So it's not even a year. Because I started it, I believe in 22, the beginning of 22. And I was just doing like online, join my call and listen to me rant about Bitcoin. And then I was like, okay, I need to do physical things. And I started it just as the, like, all right, I'm in the Cumberland Valley Bitcoiners. And then I realized quickly, it was like, there's nobody here that even knows about Bitcoin. So it's like, all right, I'm just going to claim the entire center of the state.

He's notting along. He's done this. The middle of Pennsylvania, by the way, is like no. It's known, like, the classic meme of Pennsylvania is you have Philly, Pittsburgh, and then, like, Kentucky in between. Yeah, everything. That's the meme. People who have been to Pennsylvania, like the Canadians, don't. realize. I went to Grove City, for example, with somebody's years ago. You, like,

ask the cab driver where that you can go to party. The answer is, nowhere. It's dry. Okay. And then, and you go to Pittsburgh, it's a fucking party town. I don't know. The states is a mystery of me in a lot. There are a lot of dry counties. I don't know. What is that? Why? Just some retards in the past decided that, okay, our opinions on this, this substance is supersedes all other opinions that anybody will ever have ever from now on. They look being poor, but I guess I can look. I mean, it's... Those dry counties, right across the county people's right to do that.

Or all the bushshops, right? You want to be... I guess you guys aren't drinking right now. I appreciate you buying booze, but I'm kind of like in a dry spell at the moment. Good. Yeah. Yeah. I was like high in men. I'm not really drinker.

Oh, yeah. Related to that. I don't drink that much yet. Loads of menonites, loads of, like, German, on-ish. Yeah. Yeah. So that's going to lead to. is that why you think yeah okay for sure like the the the puritanical founder not in groves that where grove city is was a puritan grove city is like there's a place in

pennsylvania called uh rosado and it's uh it gets its name from the same city in italy where my grandparents are from actually and so i hear about this all the time that the biggest like italian get together in the states short of like new york or something is in this little pennsylvania town i've never been never heard of you it's wild it's like a i mean it's a big thing for Canadian Italians. I don't know about American Italians. It's probably better stuff for that end of you. I mean, in Canada, people think Italian is East Side Mario's. So

it's not a great situation. I don't know. Anyway, let's talk about, I won't talk about your podcast. Well, let me, like, so I started the podcast. The meetup. And, yeah, Fundamentals rolls through. And, like, there's, so I met several, like, I met, I met, I met there's, like, there's several people to come

that, like, I meet you, like, oh, there's a physical Bitcoin meetup, like, within a seven-hour drive, I'm going to it. And so, like, immediately I met several cool people, but, like, yeah, like, you... It's buying corny chat for, if you know what that is. Corny chat is, like, one of the great, real Noster ways to communicate. Really? Yeah.

But, yeah, so, like, there are several significant people I met early on. But, yeah, so you roll in with your, it's your whole family in tow. Yeah. It's like, okay. Here's like, hey, how are you doing? Like, let's... This bar had no food that day because the chef didn't show up. Yeah, we ordered pizza.

We ended up ordering pizza. This was, I was still scheduling things at bars. Yeah, I still haven't figured out. a good cadence or location for my for my meetup so wait a minute you brought the funniest thing about this is you dragged your college age daughter yeah this bitcoin meetup in the middle of nowhere when she just wanted to get to school and see her friends big saw some stuff she wanted him worse almost worse almost like it's like a bunch of nerdy guys like you know talking even talking to the bouncer today at the the theater like there's really no nerdyer gathering than a bitcoin

meetup conference so okay does you guys meet at the meet up what is the i think me the we had a great conversation. I don't know what we talked about, but we most have had a great conversation, and like I made it clear, hey, I'm a Bitcoin miner. You had an S9 at the time that you had plugged in, and at some point you jumped in our telegram chat, and then at some point later, you were, you decided

you were going to exit the S9 scene, so you're like, hey, do you want to buy my S9 for me? You're a big one minor. It's like, yeah, absolutely. It was like, you were having some issue with it, so like, I'll take it, whatever the issue is, I'll fix it, and I'll have another S9. I'm a telegram destroyer, by the way. Are you? Yeah. What does that mean?

it means the second If I arrive Like a new telegram group The group dissolves It's not that it dissolves But it becomes the telegram plus me For sure Yeah

Well we met up I took it I took his S9 off his hands I'll secret destroyer And I don't think of you as a telegram destroy I think of me as a telegram destroyer Like I And that's why we got along

That's just you and I That's just basically The whole telegram is you and I Just called down We met up at some at some casino Or something Recording Studio It was out in Rock Littitz.

Something made a fish. And like, and we hit it off. And then like on the way I'm, I just, I had been, I think I had already been on a pod. I might have already been on High Hatcher at this point. Yeah. But like, I was, I had it in my head like, okay, I need to start some kind of show. Did it create? Yeah.

Yeah, you got to create. Yeah. And like, and so like, yeah, fundamentals was one of like, the most recent person where it was clear to me like, oh, I could have a conversation. I could have more than one extended conversation with this dude. So I was like, I just kind of like, do you want to start a podcast? So the timetable is I, I meet him in September. Yeah. This meeting that we had to sell him as S-9,

and we met in a freaking pile of snow. This is January of 23. Okay. Now, where we start discussing the podcast. Yeah. So we're like, I was like, yeah, I think I would like to do a podcast. I was having the similar thoughts. I was kind of still, like, I.

Let's do five episodes. Yeah, let's record five episodes. Season one. Before we even release anything to see if we have anything. And then, yeah, so we got in... And I was recorded and didn't release. Yeah, we had several episodes. That takes discipline.

That takes discipline. The first one, this is the first episode was probably three hours. And I was exhausted. I'm sorry. Take that thing off. Yeah. So this didn't mean that stuff. We will be shedding articles of clothing during this podcast.

For all your audio listeners, Brian's lanyard was all over his microphone. So we're doing some technical things here. And that's like one of the other reasons we haven't. released some episodes because they were unlistenable because of shit like that shit audio we had a few yeah early on i was doing we had no idea a lot of editing too like i was going through chopping aws and ums i was trying waste the time yeah well i i i i rapidly got to that we were doing garage band tracks yeah holy yeah that's more yeah and then i got we had no idea what we were doing we were you like we want to do a podcast but you got were you guys recording in person you

weren't no so like that makes it this is our second ever in-person recording should make it easier. It should make it easier to do it if you're online, I think. It should. Yeah. There are a solution. You can do it for free with free tools, but like Riverside is a paid app, which makes it so much. And it sucks. And it sucks. It does have it. It does have a

decision. It sounds like we had bull and lots of episodes that screwed up. I'm still because of Riverside. I'm still It sucks because when you have guests, especially, it's like, okay, I don't want to fuck up the audio. Like, I'm even looking at, like, I'm looking at the levels all the time. And like, Funnies light is red and my light is yellow and your light is yellow.

I have no idea what that means. It looks like everything's working, but I'm telling you right now, it's in my head. And so when I have gas on, it's a piss off to me when I know that I could do something better and I can't do it because I realize it in the middle of an episode. You know what I mean? That's a pain. Okay. That aside. You guys are also different ages.

Okay. This is a major, I think this is a major weird thing in Bitcoin. I don't know of any other place besides a church where you can go and have conversations with everybody in the building and be on the same page. I'm like 80s too low. They're probably 95% of stuff. And like everyone is like, you got geysers and kids who are, you know, still shit in diapers. And everyone's saying the same thing. Fiat's broken.

Pensions suck. Blah, blah, blah, blah. When you guys, like, think about your gap, does that, does that ever come up? Like, you're looking at Bitcoin and, like, it solves a certain thing for you. You came from a career in actuary, right? Yep. I don't know what you were doing. Buckins, fucking ordering pizzas at bars or whatever.

would do it but like you know this is like it's like truly a sort of like yin and yang relationship on all friends so how how do you think that contributes like the content you guys make i love rock paper bitcoin i don't listen to anything every episode i basically listen to every episode of rock paper bitcoin even if sometimes i'm like these guys down that's amazing dude i still have imposter syndrome do you i still feel like i like people are listening like that's the other thing you got to realize when you're doing shows like everything you say dumb smart you have a revelation that's like, you know, worthy of being engraved into some cave somewhere? Here's what we have.

I'm going to tell you what we have. That's very special. We have two things that combine, I think, to something very special. Okay. We have a genuine, genuine love for each other. Yes. I believe. Yeah.

And I believe. I can very, we have also very genuine tension. Okay. Very genuine difference in worldviews. Yeah. And we argue about it. on the show. It doesn't sound like an argument. It doesn't sound like... You're fleshing him out.

But it sounds like two guys who are fairly intelligent, genuinely like each other, just trying to be right. Yeah. And I think it comes out good. Okay. It just comes out good. It can. Yeah. I think it's... I love how you qualify our relationship.

I think the first time you went on another podcast, it might have been high hash rate, but like you, they brought up me briefly. Like, tell us about business cat or whatever. And you're like, yeah, I think we're friends. Because we have this genuine tension. And sometimes I do wonder deep down the back of my mind,

does business guys who really hate me? Sometimes. You guys have tension in a lot of different ways, right? Yeah. Listening to the show. It's not age-based, but it is worldview-based. But it's like everything. It's like the cadence of your thinking.

Even listening to you guys talk right now, like when one of you speaks, it's like quick, quick, quick, and then the other one speaks, it's like, yeah, slow, slow. This is what I think. I've thought about this a little bit. You need to speak slower. It's not about what you need to do. It's just that there's a contrast there.

And people like contrast, whether it's in the way we think or the things you think or the way you deliver a thought, people like that. And it works for you guys. It doesn't work for everybody, but it works for you guys. It really does work. And I don't know why it does at this point, but we've done 75 episodes. Yeah. And we figured out that it works.

A lot of times now, it's like we don't even talk to each other before at all. Yeah. I mean, like at all. Yeah. We catch up about every two weeks when we record. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, that is when we talk. Sharing this space right now is, like, one of the weirdest things in the world.

That's not unique to me and you either. Like, I don't talk to anyone. Like, I talk to my wife and my kids. And, like, all of, like, this Bitcoin and social stuff, like, I'm generally, like, I don't know what you're talking about. Are you on a big conference guy? I've been to a couple years ago, and I was like, I was so shy. So, like, this is the best contrasts ever been to. So, let me start there.

Like, the fact that, like, I come here and there's, like, I have my co-host here. The absolute lowest of bars. I have people that I can talk to. So the last, so I think every conference I've ever been to, I have ended up going up and just hanging out in my room by myself because I just like, I'm so overwhelmed by it. Do the social thing. Yeah.

Like I just, the small talk of meeting new people and having to, it's like, I can't do it. So people in my meet up are always asking, like, when's a business cat coming out? I want to meet business cat. When is business guy? I'm always telling them like, dude, Business cat is a home body.

Yeah. He loves, he just likes being in her home. You're preaching to the converted here, by the way. My co-host never leaves his house. Oh, I can see that. Well, he's afraid of taking a shit in a while. My excuse did I tell myself, like, I'm my full time now is I'm a stay-at-home dad,

and, like, I have a very busy CPA wife. Yeah. And so, like, yeah, like I. He is a homebody. He likes being around, and he likes. I like going to the gun range. He just likes it. And he's, I think business cat, people think it's funny that I coach.

your business guy. But I'm so used to it. I don't remember people's real names. But like, I remember pseudonyms. I don't remember. You're starting to, you're starting, you're hitting a phase of your life right now where you're starting to leave the house. How old are you? I turned 40 this year. So we're about the same age and yeah, how old are you? I'm 51. So you're a Gen Xer and I'm like an older millennial. Same. Yeah, I was born in seven. I'm a bullseye gen Xer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right in the middle. It's, it's weird. Like, even like, the way you guys describe it like i don't know if it sounds like this to you guys but they're describing a relationship that it doesn't seem like you do them really have a handle on like they don't know

like they're like uh sometimes i think he hates me he won't come to the meetups but i love talking to go love catching up with him and by the way even though we do this show together 75 times your show is like an hour and a half long usually if not little longer we aim for an hour minima it works pretty long and like now they're roommates they're like yeah kind of weird it is we did I met I was out at the central Pia meetup like month ago yeah and we had lunch at you just got a you know this burger joint across the street from where the meetup was that we were talking about how dude this is kind of surreal it's kind of surreal what do we do we're with each other we're just going to talk to each other and yeah what do we do

don't you guys plan like uh you see don't plan your content I actually think there's some value there I do I do I do when I don't like it's not that you don't plan anything but It's very loose. There is a, you know, sweet spot there where you don't want to take away from the episode by talking about things beforehand. You want the reactions to be legitimate, honest. We also trust that it'll happen. So usually the most planning we do is like five minutes before we record, which is on 8 a.m. on

Saturdays. You record 8 in the morning? We'll just start texting each other. You guys got wild energy on that show for 8 a.m. on a Saturday. I'm a morning person, dude. I got a morning person. with my military career, but yeah, I've been waking up at five for 10 years. I get up early, but I don't want to talk to anybody really until like seven.

Yeah, and not me. I can't do that. But we'll share a list. We'll share a little space on the memory card. Just in case you guys. What does? It says no space on the memory. On the camera?

Yeah. We're recording on the other thing anyway. Oh, it is? Yeah. So even if we don't get the video, I don't care. Okay. Yeah. If it doesn't work, see on.

Hey, I just want to let you know. I appreciate that. Well, it's on the car. Even my wife's been using it for baby pictures. He's getting revenge for all the tech support. I didn't send him anybody At least now I could just Drake this beer and not worry about it

Yeah so like five minutes or maybe Five ten minutes before the show We'll start texting each other Here's what's on my mind If we can get to it Let's get to it If we, so you guys don't have like a topic list Or something or no

Very loose We generally will structure Okay here's where we're going to start The conversation and like We'll have like I was think I've been thinking about this this week Yeah And like he's been thinking like

All right we'll start talking about that And then maybe at some point like we'll pivot into this other conversation if it comes up naturally in the conversation. But like, here's what happens though. So we have this maybe a list of two or three things that's on our minds that we want to talk about. But when we hit start, we have the opening convo. And then that like just takes on a life of its own. The dovetails, yeah.

And business gets very good at eventually figuring out how to segue into one of the things. You guys do do a good pivot. You show those have a good pivot. That's hard to do. The other thing that I like about your show is that the content is very rarely it's very rarely centered on Bitcoin Very

Everyone is really difficult To talk about our show to people like Oh, you have a podcast What's it about? It's about me Because once you start Like everyone who starts a show in Bitcoin I mean for sure when you guys did this

I would imagine it was the same We're going to talk about the best Bitcoin stories from the week And Len used to do Lent still does all the research for the show for like those stories. And, you know, we used to like scour Reddit and go on Twitter and try and find, like, what people talk about and care about. And then you realize after like, I don't know, a couple months maybe that there's way more going on that is sort of like tangentially related to Bitcoin. And you want to talk about that too. You don't want to scare people off that you want to scare the Bitcoin's still off.

But you want to talk about stuff that's like true top of funnel. You know, I'll take my way weekly shot at Simply Bitcoin here. you got the two kinds of top of funnel thinking right one is the simply top of funnel where you're you know really dumbing down your content to just the stupidest possible lowest common denominator everything you were everything you put out is slop the camera cuts are just constantly pumping dopamine and you're not seeing anything of substance ever there's a lot of giggling yeah they should be giggling hey no giggling no giggling loud i'm just saying there's a lot of giggling that's the that's the simply top of funnel stuff and that's what happens when you have no job

and rely on play counts. You can't say things that actually... It's having a podcast to have it because there's other reasons than just... We're a love of the game. We're totally... We're total love of the game. Because then, like you guys do,

and I think like Landon and I do, and a lot of podcasts I like do this, top of funnel is actually, okay, let's talk about like, you know, whether it's actuarial stuff or you want to talk about some of your military background. Like, there's relationships here to Bitcoin

and maybe more specifically like time preference and hard money and family building and community building. that's top of funnel We hit all that And we got to put a guy with a surprise face And Larry Fink is on fire

And the gold vault And the thumbnail Like that's that's retarded Yeah like that's retarded shit But if you're doing this other top of funnel thing That's where you get people Who actually are like Yeah man

I like I get these guys Like if I saw a meet up with my college age daughter And they were there I would stop my car too That's the kind of I want People I think when two people are having a conversation I think people can see themselves

in that conversation. It's a parisocial relationship with podcasters for sure. I don't have any, like, I don't have a problem with current events per se, but like I did stand up. And I realized that

whenever I wrote jokes that were like topical, like one of my best jokes I ever had was about Penn State. This was back in 2012. The Sandalski years? Scandals. Yeah. I realized like at some point

those things will have a shelf life. And we, wanted to do something timeless that we wanted the episodes to be kind of timeless that anyone anyone could go listen to any one of them and it would be relevant hopefully evergreen right i don't know how successful we've been with that semi-successful it's it's the themes though thematic yeah but like we you know we win more than we lose on these yeah true i think so i think so yeah it's interesting like the podcast thing and like you know booers filled in a bunch on our show these i don't have you were co-hosted in the show yeah once yeah like i'm lying when you were away i'm away a bunch

And so, like, there's a lot of people who have done us favors. Like, Dietels has done it and a few other people over the years. And I'm always appreciative, but it is, it's weird, it is weird a little bit to have someone try and fill your shoes on the show. And, you know, when I first, you know, took a leave of absence from that show, I can't remember why it was, maybe a couple of years back when I was like, I'm like, I hurt myself playing sports or something. And, uh, what's new. I, exactly. And so, like, you know, when someone comes on, you're like, man, I wonder if they'll like this other guy and more than. and they like me.

And so you're like monitoring play counts because like, let's face it, okay? You start a podcast. I don't know if it's like this for you guys. It was like this for me. You start seeing stars. You see the play counts go up as like, okay, this is our first like thousand play episode. And then you just are like, holy shit.

People are actually listening and watching and they want to talk to us. And you guys have thousand play episodes, huh? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't talk about the play counts, but they're good. The play counts are good and they're like, it's like a steady grind. Like those are epic for us. Yeah. But, like, what I would say, what I would say about this point and about, like, whether a thousand plays is important is, what you are actually looking for is not people who watch your show because they had nothing better to do.

The little people who watch your show because they fucking care about what you're saying, they like you, and they align with your message. Have you ever seen that article, all you need is a thousand super fans or something like that? No. It's not that I, that resonates. Yeah, not that I think, like, of our listeners. just super fans like we're in discord chats and they're in the fucking boomer is a legit super fan like and that's how we met him but he's like a friend yeah yeah he's a friend you know I mean like all the people listen to my show really like my friends always yeah yeah like he's

boomer in the chat you know like but like he's a friend of mine like I don't look at him and be like oh this guy's a listener of the show like no wholly like that with like a handful of podcast because those are the ones that you guys just happen to but I do I do view him as a listener of the show because that's part of what makes it's him connect that's right yeah that too that too that's fair But the whole thing is, like, you could, you know, think about your play counts and stuff on whether someone's, you know, like you more or like you less. But the big thing is, like, is your core group of, like, listeners slash friends? Is it growing?

And are those quality people? Like, when you go to meetups and stuff, the people ask you, yeah, man, where's business cat? Like, are those, they're not fucking people who are watching the open mouth thumbnails. They're waiting for your show to come out. That's right. You know, ask the, Nico, where's off the... Nobody fucking. great point

boomer just said how many people don't feed don't feed boomer who says how many people asked Nico where opt you was today

the answer is fucking zero zero because there's no die hard fans of that show none that's just the way

it is and there's a place for slot farming and all that and I don't want to turn the simple I was I would say

I was definitely fan in that show were you in 22 what Phil was on yeah yeah okay well going back

to like my mindset of why why did I want a start a show. It's like with that, what was the article you said? You need a thousand super fans? You need a thousand super fans, yeah. I heard somebody say on a podcast, I listen

to, I don't know where it was. I've been listening to loads of podcasts for, since my middle, in the middle, mid-military. I was, I listened to Rogan since he was on a conversation. We had, no place going out on my about, I don't I hate his, yeah, his basement or whatever. Oh, that's. Oh. Yeah, no. I, and like, I discovered Rogan because I was listening to,

I was listening to somebody else's show that Rogan went on as a guest. It was that early. Adam Carolla. Adam Carolla. I got... Base fan. I got really sick in the Air Force one time and I was basically

I could do nothing but lay in bed for like a week and a half and like that was when I discovered podcast and it was the Adam Carolla show and Rogan came on and was such an interesting guest

I was like oh I'm gonna go listen to this and then so way down the road that branched out to I started listening to Waymore podcast and way down the downhill from that was I somebody said I didn't realize this this is my gem

but like somebody pointed out that on the internet it offers us an effectively infinite audience. Yeah. And all you have to do is find the people that are interested in your content. And if, like, if you have the willpower to get through the awkwardness of not having a lot of people and potentially, like, get, being awkward. And you just have to find your crew and, like, you can make a career out of it. Have you ever, have you ever read, um, you have to help me with the name of the article. What is that piece from the Atlantic in like the 40s, the remnant thing?

Isaiah. job. Have you ever read Isaiah's job? I've not. I'm familiar with the concept of the remnant. This is, that's where the remnant comes from. That you have to find your remnant. And you can either, you can either dumb down and sort of dull your knife to try and, you know, get more people on board and, and, you know, boost your play counts or whatever. Or you can, like, stay focused on what you think is important and how you think you'll win

and message properly and all that. Nothing is more valuable to me than the friend group that has been, basically selected by us doing this podcast. Yeah. So like our boys on the bugle. Yeah. You know, I can go down the line. Sure. The guys who really have shown up in my meetup who have, you know, really

they've risen because they want to be part of this. And it's like, we will never lower ourselves. No. Ever. I'm never going to do it. If I were to lower myself, I would do it on a different podcast. Yeah? If, you know what I mean? If I felt an need for some reason. Yeah, yeah. To lower. I would never. I would never

do it to rock paper bitcoin because we have something so it's such a special selector yeah the people in our life yeah you have like five shows you're on i have five shows yeah like you were you're talking about how five shows what i have five podcasts you yourself are governing five podcasts he doesn't edit them all but yeah what are what are they business guy does all the work for what other podcasts you have so i have motivate the mass okay with gary crass okay average gary shout out don't know who that is but average you should you should no you You should. You should.

Okay. Gary is one of, like, the coolest people. Yeah. So then you didn't listen to the episode with average Gary. Three episodes ago. It's called Modern Warfare. It's, like, Gary and I talk about our military service. Okay, so yeah, maybe I missed that one.

Yeah, okay. Who was one of the recent Pazov-approved guys was on, I think it was on Peter McFourner. Superfan. He was saying that, like, there's nobody new in Bitcoin coming out. Like, where are the new guys? Where are the new voices in Bitcoin for this cycle? Like, average Gary is top of my list for, like, who's the new Chicago. coming in.

No, no, no. Special boy. He's like a jet boot. Okay, okay, I'll listen to average. He writes code. He's, uh, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's doing a math, he's his own man. You're doing a math pod. So we do motivate the math, and that's very near, dear to me.

Is it a Bitcoin podcast? Well, yeah. Okay. It's, how do you actually gain conviction in your own reasoning? Okay. How do you know you're right? Mm-hmm. I mean, you're right.

Okay. That's good. I have my math books. Good thesis. He'd be beer me a beer. Bearing me a beer. Okay. next one is called Back on the Chain

which is there is a legendary rock band by the name of fish A fish, yeah P-H-I-S-H You're like the tragically hip but American Shut up, shut up I've actually never listened to a fish song

but I see them on my timeline all the time That's fine. You know what? The kid from American pie would have been in a fish for certainly for a little bit. So you would have done some shows while he was in college Oh, definitely. He would have ended up in some friend group. But anyway, when I arrived in Bitcoin, I was already a veteran of fish.

And fish is a big, you know, big part of my life, 30 years, bonus shows. Yeah. They were very formative, you know, that was like a huge outlet for my autism. Everyone's got a band like that. Well, yeah, but, but when I got into Bitcoin, I discovered many connections of which I could not ignore. Okay. And the first time, so I wrote two essays that I have on my blog. It's like I have these essays about pensions, about how to create annuities using lightning,

and then I have these fish essays. It's like, nothing makes sense that I do. But we ended up starting this podcast, me and Jason C. Jason C and I. Jason C is the guy, like he's like T.S.E. He, like, is a Chinese guy or? No, he is a white dude. Okay, got it.

His last name just starts with C. His last name starts with his handle. And so he's just another fish fan, and we decided to start that podcast, and that has been incredible. It's been an incredible experience, and there are people that tell me, there are people that tell me that that. Just to shake his side by. Okay, yeah. Oh, Joe. There are people that tell me that that's, like, that's the one that they really see me get the most enthusiastic.

You are in your element in. find my voice of, you know, of enthusiasm. And then the other one is sound coffee with Otis Bidmire. And that is a, Otis Bidmire is a master coffee roaster, very close friend. And I got, when I tasted his coffee, I got very committed. Yeah, you were talking about coffee on a recent show, about like you were out at the, was it, might have been the, like, Satoshi. The Royals, fuck it. Yeah.

That's my point. Yeah, so Otis, Lake Satoshi was a big pop-up for Otis. Okay. Otis was the guy with the school bus who was serving coffee the whole time. Okay. And we just released an episode with Evan Kulutis of Zeus. Nice. And, you know, we're,

Otis really represents the part of my community where we're building a circular economy. Okay. As hard as we can. I like that. The circular economy thing is big. And, you know, we're trying to do it here in Canada a little bit. Ben, Parent, B, C. Sessions is doing it in Calgary.

But, you know, talking to people last night, apparently that sat market thing has been, like, a really hard sell. It's not as popular as sort of the Twitter stuff makes it seem, which sucks, because it does look like it's pretty well attended, and maybe people who start buying stuff. That's the thing, right? Yeah, you can have the energy bond. They don't have people.

Yeah, D's saying you can get people, if you can't get people to come, then it's hard. And Cavalier's not a big city either. Yeah, it's small. I know as big as everyone. People don't realize that. You need people who are super committed. To selling their stuff for Bitcoin. So, like, I think a Rev Hoddle, if you know who that is.

Yeah, yeah. I think a Rev Hoddle as, like, one of, like, the, you know, real leaders of that movement. Premier Bitcoin recipients for goods, yeah. Like, he makes shit that people want and always has shit for sale for Bitcoin. Yeah. The circular economy can't happen until enough people have stacked enough Bitcoin that they're right to sell. Yeah, like, I mean, it didn't, I didn't start spending Bitcoin until I had, until I had a sack accumulated.

Yeah, I mean... I put $400 in a shake pay wallet like two days ago for this, and today when I bought my coffee and they asked me lightning or a card, I top my card. Like, I just, I can't do it. You spend the shit.

You know what I mean? It's like, anyway, let's finish. Like, I make a point to spend my lightning... I try. I try to you, but I don't want to do it. But again, this is why circular economy matters because if you don't care who you're giving your money to, then you'll give them the money.

you'll give them your worst form of money. Yeah, yeah. I guess, right? But if you are building something and you want the stats to spread, you wouldn't say I can't do it. Yeah. Because you're part of how the value you add to that community. I'm being attacked.

Not since. I'm not attacking you. Not since the casting couch is someone taking this much of a beating in a couch in an apartment. Part of the value you add to a community is your willingness to your willingness to spend sets. You're right. You are right. I got to start doing it.

Boomer's thinking about. Okay. Last question. And then we'll hang it off first. It's almost become an old plebslop meme to not spend your Bitcoin. That is true. But there is a real psychological issue. It's really meaningful.

Spending your Bitcoin is really meaningful. I have some of you special in my like who recently made a pretty big Bitcoin purchase. And both parties were like, wow, this was like kind of special. We were saying there was a, I don't know if the mic's picking you up, but that someone special in his life made a big Bitcoin purchase and everyone was happy about it. And there's a little bit kumbaya after. Yeah. The reason I was so excited about Otis. Yeah.

Was that coffee guy? Coffee guy was that, I mean, I've drank a lot of, sorry to say, real shit-ass coffee with Satoshi's name on it. Yeah. And so when I found this roaster who only sells this stuff for Bitcoin, I was like, this is worthy of Bitcoin. Yeah. I found a coffee roaster whose coffee is worthy of money. You demand the quality product for the quality money. Yes.

Yeah. Fundamentals hustle. hard with all of his shows that he's like I feel like I need to produce more content. That's not I'm not aiming to reduce more content because of you but you definitely inspire me to like I can do more.

I always feel like I have more to say. Like you know when I think about the way that my home life is now, I am legit like my daughter has a million books, you know, everyone's going to bed and there's ships in the sea and like you know you can read any number of them. My dad's on being a new dad. I want to talk

about fatherhood because you guys with our kids and it's interesting to me. But, like, I just went up talking my daughter about Bitcoin. She can't understand it. But she's like, she's like my dog, right? They're just happy to be involved and they'll listen to your voice and getting the cadence and the reality. My daughter is so excited when she sees the Bitcoin logo. Okay, so let's finish with this. Oh, this is going to be good.

This is going to be good. I don't know how long this is. I don't know how long spattery is going to last. So let's finish with this. You guys both have kids. How old are your kids? Four and two. And years are college age.

16 and 19. Okay. I have an 11 month old. and I think about, like, how... What are you guys doing? Oh, the camera's off. Yeah. Yeah, that's okay.

It's not, the audio is, I can see the audio recorded. Yeah, yeah. The, um, the thing I think now when I do the podcast is, I want to recording something here and putting it out that my daughter's going to be able to listen to in 20 years and be like, yeah, he fucking got it right. He knew it. And it was, like, unpopular at the time. And, no, I went through school with my teacher saying this was the wrong. thing to think and the wrong thing to do but he got it right do you guys think about that when you record shows you think about let me see you think about you don't i don't but like your kids are

watching it now they're what that like my kids see me as they're like dad likes to yap and you know like when they went out to lake satoshi they're like and people seem to like you brought your kids to like satsoshi yeah wow and they're like people seem to like to listen to you yeah that's like the value i had is you know yeah You're a graduate of Yoppers University. Yeah, I don't think about it being, I was saying before, like, I want our episodes to be timeless in so far as they're not stuck in some current event. Yeah. I don't know if I care of 20 years from now, anybody listens to this stuff?

Huh. But your kids will listen to it, maybe, or their kids. But my kids get my podcast every day. Yeah, I know. My wife feels the same way, actually. Yeah. I've thought about that quite a bit. Like, my daughter is, she's so entertaining.

by the fact that her dad has a podcast. Yeah, it's neat. Yeah, right. It's kind of, like, she tells, like, all of her friends. So we just started her at a homeschool co-op. It's kind of, like, pretty early. She's four, but, like, it's like. Leanne's school co-op is, like, you do a day and someone else does a day, or, like, what?

We, uh, there is, it's called a threefold school in Mechanicsburg near us. And it's a family that has, like, they are weird. It's a bunch of families that have come together, and, like, they don't call it a school. Threefold. That is Waldorf. That's definitely Waldorf based. yes it is um and it likes it's like all montessori stuff for the for the young kids but it goes all the way up through through what like 12th grade which is like the senior and yeah that's what is

you too yeah yeah but yeah it looks like i have like so we had to interview for this and it's like oh like well so we're talking to ladies the the the headmistress and she's like oh what do you do and my wife is a cpa she's like oh i'm a cpa talking about that and it's like it's like it's turned to me it's like oh i'm a podcaster and it's like it is the first time i've ever publicly like when somebody asked me what I do I was like oh no I'm I'm a podcaster this is what that's what I do so he's worried about them listening now well yeah like this is yeah be careful right whole shift this is terrible dude yeah so the the recent episode um was kind of controversial when like we went back and forth on stuff and it's actually the first

time in a very long time that I've elected you chop something out of the episode so like no there wasn't there was a bit I went on a little rant that in that I decided to was like the we got we go off Mike we'll tell you okay sure it's great it's fucking funny as how but yeah so like I'm realizing like I'm now meeting all of these people who are going to be like oh yes what do you I'm a podcast it is weird but go check out your podcast and they're going to hear me

see if you have five podcasts you don't have to worry about them finding the wrong one I appreciate that you always whenever you go on spaces or anything you always say like the flagship show is Rock Paper Big one it is well that's a 75 episodes but you Yeah, it's like my kids are very into it. It's the chain. The one with the longest chain is what I call the flagship episode. I hope that my children are into it enough that they listen to.

Like, my parents don't listen to it. My parents could care less that I have a show. And like, I hope that my kids can. Like, would I listen to my parents' podcast? It's like, maybe. Like, maybe if they were into Bitcoin. Like, I don't know. Like, so.

You know what, dude? I once, when I was a kid, I was a man. I was, I had some mess though shit. I had homeschooled myself. I stopped going to, I stopped going to high school. Okay. I still, like, became an actuary somehow, right? Yeah, you made it work, yeah.

But, like, I didn't talk to my parents really at all. Thanks, Bumer. Um, boomers in the other room, suck and cock. Um, anyway, I found a video. I found a video and it was a, uh, my dad was in a corporate training. And they were asking them some really personal questions. And he said things about me and my sister. Really, I never heard him discuss his thoughts, ever.

And I had to tell you, I still remember it. And it was like, almost saw him as a human in a way I never did before. Yeah. And so I just would say that was a treasure. It was a treasure to find something of his recorded. She isn't that kind of neat? Like, I think it with that all the time. Like, I want, you know, let's face it, okay?

Podcasters, Bitcoin podcasters, this memes about it. You're 40 HPW, you know, it's, your podcom approved, you got like a little shtick and you're, but at the end of the day, what I really want is for my daughter and, you know, anyone else who watches the show really to say like, yeah, these guys didn't bite their tongue. It was unpopular to say these things.

And by the way, nobody was listening for the longest time. And they were still doing it, still talking about it. And they were just like, you know, they were genuine in their efforts and genuine in what they wanted to achieve and they achieved it. We figured out. very early on, that, like, the things we would talk about, we would start seeing them materialize in the world.

Yeah. And so we used to say, shit, dude, God's listening. We don't really care if we get a big audience. Yeah. Because we're literally, the world is working out the way we wanted to because of what we're doing. I know that sounds, like, stupid and probably that is. But we, I believe that very strongly.

It's not as stupid as a fifth podcast. I did not. No, but there's something sacred. I feel like there's something really sacred about when we. Intentionally matters. We close together. Yeah. And like where you're spending your attention is much more important than people realize,

like entertaining ourselves to death. I agree. Yeah. Tell people where they can find more about you guys. Rocket every Bitcoin podcast. You guys are both on Twitter. You're on Noster. I'm not on Noster nearly enough.

And so you guys to hear that you're both like doing stuff over there is great. I continue to think that I need to spend more time on Noster and less on Twitter. But for now, I'm a thief did. So you prefer. Fundamentals on Noster. Yeah. Fundamentals 21M on Twitter. Yep.

You got a book. I have a book called Bitcoin for institutions. Probably put a Zeus. The Zeus pay site will go in the show notes. Yeah. I'll throw it in there. It's really cool experience, dude. You just like literally 2100 sats for the digital version of the book.

You put your email address in and then boom, you get the book. Nice. You know, Twitter, Noster, business cat, you'll find me. Another, I forgot to mention, it's like, I guess, I'll rock beer Bitcoin, another podcast that I did start, but it's like, I've had very, four episodes, and it's very small. It's called Rocky Ridge Radio. Rocky Ridge Radio. And Rocky Ridge is the name of, like, the property. That's what we named, the property that grew up on up in the mountains of Abilatio.

Okay. And so, like, that's where, like, my wife, my family and I are desperately trying to move back to the top of the mountain. and I take over the property. And so, yeah, this is like the kind of, dear listeners, I've refused from talking about pole shift this entire podcast. But if you want to hear me talk about pull shift, you can listen to me talk about it on back to your dri-go.

When I came into the conference this morning, business cat told me that something I hear what we were talking about, but you're like, yeah, when the earth flips over, it's going to be a lot of water over there or something like that. Yeah, we don't have to get into that on the show. But, yeah, we're out of here. God bless. Thanks, boys.

Thanks, guys.