The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - France Is DEMANDING to Know How Much Bitcoin YOU Own | The CBP 245 Pt 1

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESShakepay turfs shakingsats, France wants ALL your Bitcoin data, the federal reserve restarts QE and the price of BTC is IN THE TANK. Let's talk about it.Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Levin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and easy DNS, the media is feeding a slop. It doesn't Doesn't matter what topics discussed. Quality entertainment and information you can trust.

That's being planned or at least discussed. You know, we're not going to allow people to buy this. You can trust. Send the guys some value. Boost them with some stats. Bitcoin is a scarcity. I mean, it's just a fact. Geopolitical national down to the local cloud.

Friends and enemies, welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast here on a chilly December night. My name's Joey. That's Len. We got a lot to talk. about then a lot to talk about what's going on it's going to be a longer than usual show joey i think so you got you got to buckle up because it's oh my god there's so there's no way we can leave this shit on the cutting room floor the clown world is fucking off the rails that alone we could probably do two

our show but we're not yeah we'll get we'll get to the main stuff joey how are you bud i'm great man i'm great i was just saying to you before the show went to dinner last night i'm moving a little slow today i think i'm also sick which uh is another thing to consider my daughter's been like a week now. We had to go to the emergency last week. Typical new parent stuff, probably panicked, but whatever. It's been a wild seven days. My wife is absolutely trucking through her own illness, plus my daughters, plus now my slow movement today. But we're good, man. We're good. Price of Bitcoin way down. But I think all things considered, we're not even too worried about that, are we? Depends if you're buying or selling. If you're buying, you're happy. If you're

selling, you're not happy. Yeah. Yeah, so whatever it is. What it is. Yeah. We'll talk about that and some other stuff today, as you guys know. Of course, the sponsors first, EasyDNS.

Best place for you to host your content by a domain. Mark is the friendly neighborhood registrar, as he likes to say. And if you're going to Easy DNS, you can also do some virtual private server stuff. If you're into that, whether it's Bitcoin Node, Nostro Relay, some other stuff as well. We just had a listener of the show. Open up another account with Mark on the back of some virtual private server

offerings, which is, Pretty cool. I don't know, Len, are you VPS guy? How many VPS tasks have you undertaken in your time? I do everything locally, so no. Okay. Yeah. I don't have anything to do. I like to be the master of my domain to deal with my own stuff like that. Mark is available if you don't have that preference. And of course, takes Bitcoin as well. Been doing that for more than a decade. Use our promo code CBP media. Get half off whatever you buy from them the first time through, which we like. Other sponsor, Land. Who is it? Well, Bitcoin. Right. A good time.

to buy Bitcoin because the price of Bitcoin is comparative to previous few months. It's a great time to buy. Or if you think it's going to go down, a good time to sell. Either way, both Bitcoin has you covered. You could sell your on-chain. You can sell your lightning. Fees are still very, very cheap. So I would suggest still use on-chain

buys for the not-too-distant future, but at least learn some different options out there once fees do go up. And when you do, and when they do, at least bull Bitcoin gives you the option to do when a high-feed environment, you can use lightning or whatsoever. So besides that, you could do limit orders they're not custodial joey when you're dealing with the non-custodial exchange

they're not holding on your bitcoin but how many fucking times we talk about do not give up your keys so many people out there they buy bitcoin leave on an exchange and think it's safe it's not the case if both bitcoin it doesn't give you that option you to do the buy you got to provide an address doesn't have be a right address there's got to be just a fucking bitcoin address that's the only way they're going to facilitate the buy so check them out if you use our code below to sign up By doing so, it's going to be taking off some fees moving forward for buying and selling in perpetuity. Also, you could pay bills, you can send money to people selling Bitcoin. You can talk to Guillaume in the live chat if you want.

And beyond that, not just him, but also his colleagues, people that are trying to onboard onto Bitcoin and need a helping hand, they will help you out to do that. They have an excellent team at that. So check them out, safe, secure, and they will usher you along if you are new to the game. Yeah, I love Bitcoin Mentor as a product slash service, but if you don't want to pay, Bull will help you. They'll do it. They'll take time out of their day to do it. I started a DCA, a daily DCA on the Bull platform with the wallet and liquid and everything.

Last week, I think I was telling you guys, when Shake Pay made their announcement, I thought, you know what? People are going to be asking about this, so I better learn how to do it. And I got to tell you, Len, it is the smoothest process I think I've ever seen for a DCA. self-custodial DCA is liberating it's so good so good I use the bull wallet I even use the recoverable to set up the wallet which for me is is great I'm not going to keep a lot of stats on that wallet as Francis says when he's talking about it it is a bang in product I really I cannot stress enough how good it is I haven't touched

you a recoverable I read about it just briefly when it came out yeah and yeah I've just been so fucking I know I'm with you Whatever. This is our last show before we go to the Christmas episode. Yeah. So next week it's not much prep, except for the stories which, or the cities, which I have. Eight different. You got eight stories? Okay, I'll try and get eight.

I have eight head to heads. I'm going to break this up, give you four. Okay. And I'll rock from there. So you find your own stories. I find my own. Okay. Go from there.

Okay. I love it. Love it. Great. All right. I want to do some boost? Yeah. So kind of a few of them.

So more BTC dick. These are the top five this week. So thank you everybody that did submit this. So MoBTC Dick, 500 sats. It said Lenn mentioned some 90s JDM Legends last episode. I'm curious if he has a favorite. I got myself into a 2004 Toyota Aristo because I'm a 2JZ fanboy. Those are pretty powerful motors.

And, yeah, like the Mr. 2, the MR2, we used to call Mr. 2, Eagle Talins, type R integras, No, NSX. Sorry, NSX, obviously. The RX7 is a great car. Those are winding motors. It's a lot of fun. The Miadas, Miadas are good.

50-50 weight split. You know, it was nice, too. The Honda Preludes were nice, too. A lot of my high school buddies had those. H-22 motors. Those were, yeah, they were very soft. It's too bad we see them. They don't see too many around these days.

The Dell Souls I liked. So, yeah. And on top of that, Joey, sad day this past week, my car, I think, finally bid it. Wow. But it's fucking done.

It's fucking done. You know, I did the math. I've been in the search for 48 years, 24 of which I had that car. So half my life, I've had that fucking car. So wait, what are you going to buy now? I bought another one. I bought a Honda fit. Yeah.

And I like subcompact cars and I found one, six speed, low kilometers. And yeah, I pick it up this week. So I'm going to be driving that for the rest of my time here before I pack it up and move somewhere else. it's got about 10 years in it so great a little more than what I need yeah business cat thank you business cat I prefer this rather than the stream

sats because this way you get more bang for the buck one two three four sats I love the number he says powerful twan and he does the flex and inspiration to me and every home heating hashing hero yes

yeah Twan and I were at dinner last night and a lot of the guys at the table were impressed with the product and the idea behind heating your house and getting paid to do it. It's amazing that no one's really considered this already. And he's a guy who's been working on it for some time. Great product. And he's shipping again, too. He was telling me he's got the crate size down to like 13 inches or something like that.

It's so small in terms of like the height of the crate. So the unit continues to improve. And one of the reasons he was telling me that he doesn't mind sharing some of the stuff about his product is because he's in a so often that it just doesn't offer anyone in any advantage over them, which tells you something. You like that. Business cat, again, 1337 sets. He's getting

his money's worth here. The lead. 1337 is lead, right? What is? That's right. Yeah, with the lingo. Anyways, the state steals your freedoms then sells them back to you and calls it permitting. Shoot more moose, buy less permits.

Remember we talked about that story about that guy. It was fine. It was a 5K or something or 7K for shooting. By the way, moose are fucking huge. So if you do shoe and I don't know how you're going to drag that motherfucker back home,

but that's a lot of meat. Yeah, I don't think if to drag it. I think someone will have a tool for that. I'm pretty sure. But you're shooting it on site. It's not at the fucking butcher, right? You got to get it from A to B.

It's a tough challenge. Doug, 2,100 stats. He says, fascinating stuff. Would love to get a system like this fitted to a mother's house. No cheap electricity in the UK, but plenty of solar panels.

Fancy a trip to a blighty Twan. Twan, if you want to go to the UK, maybe I would wear a bulletproof vest or something that's... Stab armor, yeah. Yeah. Chain mail. Sad. And then you'll be okay.

So, yeah. Last but not least, we have Hammertown OG 5,000. My guy, my guy. He says, you guys are correct. Canada does have an immigration problem. Milton Friedman once said, it's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state. Canada does not have the public infrastructure and social system to support its domestically born population.

Unemployment is under control while classrooms and hospitals are overcrowded and underfunded. Stop immigration, stop foreign aid, start helping the Canadians who have paid their taxes their entire lives to build these services. Amen. I'm with you on that, man. Hammertown, OG. Every day we get closer to me saying, let's go, meet at the Collins Brewhouse and Dundas for a beer these comments. I'm sure we could solve some of the world's problems over a pint, that's for sure.

That's it for the boost. Those are the five top boosts of the week. Thank you, everybody, for donating. I have nothing else to add to that. Me neither. We have no shows on the horizon. Next week we have a Christmas episode. And then...

We'll be getting back on the interviews in the new year. I've been busy. I haven't done a sip rip for two weeks because my daughter's been sick. So hopefully this week Things turn around I think they probably will And we can get back on that I do want to talk about the Trump

You know Quote unquote new Monroe doctrine On the Sip and Rip But it's kind of An old story now I'll think about it anyway I got lots on my In my bookmarks folder

For that show Yeah Joey The clan world is fucking It's accelerating What is the word? Accelerating It's accelerating The new citizenship rules

Are in today and it's funny people are pissed off about it but a lot of European countries have those new citizenship rules that are laid up by Canada so this is like it's all hat for a lot of European countries

Yeah yeah we're not we're not breaking any new ground here I know I know definitely not And by the way if you want to get a I'm not sure if I told you this but the old country My wife's getting her passport tomorrow Or I want to say same day You go in, submit your, give your documents It's same day to give you the passport

There's no fucking wait for two weeks whatever, same fucking day. You don't pay any extra. Imagine that. Anyways. Shake pay. Shall we talk about shake pay? That's the first thing.

Yeah. I mean, this is, uh, I really don't, I don't like this at all. I'm going to actually find the, um, the, well, let me just, let me just. Yeah, you talk about it. I'll find it. So, no, I'm going to get very, very brief and then get handed over to you. So we have the three new tiers out there, the base, bright, and blue. Those are the three different tiers.

And each gives a. different shaking rewards. So when you shake your phone, you get 10 sats for base, up to 100 sats for Bright, and up to 500 sats for Blue. And you also get different rewards for using the Shake Pay Card, interest on cash,

when you leave it on there. So essentially to become a Bright member, you have to exchange $100 or receive $200 in eligible direct deposits. To be a bright, sorry, a blue, that's the highest tier. You have to exchange $1,000 or receive $2,000 in eligible,

eligible direct deposits in a month there you go very basic very you know I don't want to give any opinion here I know you have something you want to talk about yeah I I view this as okay let me

let me start by saying this people ask me in the comments for stuff I got a couple of DMs too and I can see on Discord there's a few comments and I'm getting some messages there as well I'll just address all the concerns here in one place or try too. When I say shake pay has, I think, decreased in the quality of the product it offers.

I don't say that because I don't like team. I don't like the company. I like the team. Every time I see Carlo, it's a warm hello, a warm conversation. Same with the girls who work at the company and some of the guys there too that I've seen at the conferences over the years. And obviously, they were sponsored for the show for a long time. Amicable breakup. There's no issue at all. you know, I really, I wish those guys in that company the best. But I do think you're seeing a pretty steady decline in terms of what is being offered over there. And the reason that decline is so, so obvious and so stark, Len, is because when that product first released, it was the only game in town. And I thought it was really good.

We took them as a sponsor because we thought they were a really good product. We used them. I used them, right? Of course. And you know what I recommended to people when they were signing up? You know, it was like the thing that was easy shaking sats was a nice way to get people involved and give them a little skin in the game.

And one of the reasons that the decline has been so stark is because it started out so generously giving this Bitcoin away to everybody. 21,000 sats you used to get if you were shaking your phone about eight years ago, seven or eight years ago. So you used to get 21,000 stats for every shake and then eventually it decreased and decreased to decrease.

And then the thing I think that really threw the client base for a bit of a loop. And on Twitter, they're not getting a lot of love either, neither on Reddit. The thing that really throws people for a loop is now they're being forced to leave a product in which they're entrenched, the bank. It's a deposit of your check every two weeks. It's more daily usage of the card. It's a bunch of different things.

And as we talked about on the show, there's this thesis in tech and in business that to get somebody away from an entrenched service or a service in which they are entrenched. I should say. The product, the new product needs to be 10 times better. And you could make the case the shake pay was 10 times better when you were going there every day and getting a couple of bucks for free in Bitcoin. When you were going there every day and your shaking sats, you know, was going up by a significant amount as your streak built. Now, you know, now I think you had to have a thousand days of shaking for a thousand stats plus use the card every week, plus maybe some other stuff. Now you can't get to a thousand stats if I pull up the thing here. you can't get to 1,000 stats on shaking stats. I think the most you can get is 500 now. Up to 500, by the way. Up to 500. You could be a blue member and still not a, I'm not sure how it determined.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But you, but you see that, you know, the total reward is decreased quite a bit. And to me, you know, if you're going to try and take on the bank, you know, there's not really, there's not really a chance to do it in a Bitcoin debit card. app, I don't think. The banks in general do two things well, right? They offer protection for your funds and they offer convenience when you spend. And they do that basically with the credit card on both sides of that coin. So, you know, when I use my credit card at the bank, I don't have to worry about seeing a transaction that didn't approve or trying to track down a fraudulent issue

or whatever. And, you know, on shake pay, you would have that problem. And I think the other thing too, Len, that it's weird to me that they don't make this connection or don't seem to be making the connection. People don't have money, you know, there's like an obvious, there's an obvious cavern here between the thesis of Bitcoin that people don't want to save in cash, don't want to have cash and don't have any cash to spend because of fiat debasement. And then also the suggestion that you have to deposit your paycheck and then spend cash instead of credit. on their platform to keep the rewards going. I don't think this is good for them. And like I told you guys, and maybe I said this in the bullchat or somewhere, but I think the problem that they're going to have now, and I actually think this is probably part of the reason

they've made the change, they're being asked what their daily active user base is. And the daily active user base is not, the people who are looking at investing in that company, if they're talking about going public, whatever, they're not going to care if people go there to shake their phone. They want to know the people that are using shake pay. And so those people are buying and selling Bitcoin or Ethereum, I guess, on that platform. They are using the card.

They're doing deposits. They're doing all this other stuff. Those are really what your DAU numbers should include. And most, I would guess, VC firms want to see those numbers. Sons, the shakers. And I bet you that that was part of this too. So we're going to find out a couple of things over the next little while. Number one, how much did shaking stats contribute to those numbers? Number two, how much did shaking stats contribute to the daily active user base increasing, right? Because people sign up just to do the shaking stats. So that's two figures we're going to find out about. And then the third one on the shake pay side, this will be an internal thing, I'm sure. How many people can you convince to leave their bank for your app? Because that's the product you're selling now.

You're trying to sell a bank substitute without the credit ease and the protection. So they can say that they're insured and your funds are safe. Like that is true. They have insurance for the funds. But it's not true that if something goes wrong with the transaction, they'll be able to reimburse you. It's not true that you'll ever have a physical card it looks like. I don't know how much that matters. And so you have these problems.

I have never seen a physical shake pay card. I'm not looking at people. I've never seen one. If I go on my, like my phone, I have the card in my wallet on my phone. Yeah, I do. but I've never actually seen a shake pay card. So like these things... What's your first spoon died in the physical?

For somebody like me, I want to use a physical one. For example, I think I told you this a little while ago. I had what the bank thought was a fraudulent transaction on my credit card about a month ago. And I couldn't use any of my... I couldn't do any online purchases. Amazon wasn't working. I think it was around the time I was trying to buy Arc Raiders. I couldn't get it to work.

I had to use the card in person only until I was able to get through to somebody at the bank and confirm that it was. in a fraudulent transaction. So sometimes you need that physical card in lieu of, in lieu of a digital option, even when the transactions aren't fraudulent. And so you have these like false positives that happen sometimes. This is a real concern. So you went to a merchant in person and making that buy you mean?

Is that what you're doing? Yeah. And you can't use what's on the phone in like replacement of having the card? They won't accept that. No. No. No. Yeah.

I'm not one that has anything loaded up on my phone. So in terms of cards. So I just, I'm asking because this is unturned territory for me. So you have that problem. And I also, if I'm looking at the, if I'm looking at the page here, the sort of whatever announcement page, it's actually their legal page. But you can see the shaking stats thing here and everything. What's their goal? Well, I don't know.

Here's the thing, right? The interest rates are not that good. Like interest on CAD deposits, 3%. I got news for you. You get more than that on a stable coin. You know, like you can use a stable coin. and get more than that. You could you could stake some shit coin and get more than that. And

you know, these are obviously, they present different risks and different benefits, but the idea that you'd keep CAD for 3% at the top tier, to me is like it's not a good idea. That's going to be just depending on demand. It'll change. Yeah, it'll change. So at some point,

that's the thing, right? So at some point, if they get all these people, then they're going to have to lower those rates too. And again, like, that's the thing is, what are they trying to achieve? They're trying to get people to leave their bank for the app that this is yeah it seems like that to me so this is their goal they they want people to use their product in lieu of the bank they want to be like a bank like i believe that's i believe that's case is this a feasible goal do you think that this is something that they can achieve no

not right now no it just is it because of circumstances or is it become of their decisions if it's their decisions then what could they do to achieve that they can't if joy was the CEO how do they the reason they can't achieve it now is because people are not trying to get banking services from exchanges and you're actually seeing this you know you're seeing companies like bull bitcoin take market share because they are a they are a exchange that focuses on buying and selling bitcoin you can do some other stuff there with your bitcoin but there's no credit card there's no interest payments there's no any of that stuff right to get to get people to leave their bank you have to offer i think a credit option this is this is this is

This is a thing you must do to get people to leave their bank. Because at the end of the day, as we said before, the bank's product is debt. And if you can't get debt, you know, consumer debt or mortgages or whatever with these guys, you're not going to get it. Because, you know, at the end of the day, you know who's got a better product than these guys and has a credit card and has mortgages? Wealth simple. So now you're going to tell me that you're going to try and get people leave their bank

and not go to wealth simple, which is a better. suite of services where you can also buy Bitcoin and I think now also send it off platform like this is a this is a better it's it is in arguable this is a better product so how what is the plan

of shake pay to get people off of these services I just don't see it I don't I don't understand I don't know what their goal is I think you laid it out and I'm just learning about it today because I just don't know I don't think they'll be able to achieve it just based on what I see and what I hear good luck

I don't dislike them. I don't want to see them go tits out. I'd rather have options. I'd rather to have competition out there. Of course. But it is, it is what it is. The reality is the shaking of,

the shaking of the stats is the winner stings at the most people, I believe. And the thing is when you were talking about 21,000 stats, I'm not sure how long ago that was. I think it was, it was 2018, it's 2018, yeah.

So it's been a while, I was seven years ago. It's eight years ago almost. And so like, that's, consider how much Bitcoin, the value of Bitcoin, was at that time.

2018, it started off around, what, 18, 19K and it dropped like 4-ish-K in 2018. Yeah. In 2019, February, it was the lowest, I recall correctly. So, yeah, like, that's what you're dealing. Now we're at 80-something,000, even we're, like, complaining at 86,000. Man, you know, how long have they been at 1,000 sats for? That's a good question. I'm not sure.

They did, don't forget, they did rug pull, too. Like, the other problem I have with this is that if you're a thousand-sat shaker, you get immediately nuked back to 500 even though you spent time building up that streak, right? Like, I realize that that's not really a, you know, a brutal gripe to make. But it just everything there is becoming more and more corporate. It was destined to be like this.

Because they were catering to people that did not use their platform, just simply open up the app and shook the phone. That's the people that were benefiting from the most. And who was paying for it was everybody that, use the fucking app, use the service. And that's too bad. So they, they chop them at the knees, those people that don't use their services,

and now they're going to get 10 sats per shake. Yeah. It's tough, man. I think that's the right move in that respect. Maybe the 500 may be too low. I don't know. But let's be honest, when you were giving out a thousand sats, what was the price of Bitcoin?

Half the price it is now, less than half the price. Then 500, if you're just doing apples for apples comparison, then 500 is still, thousand back then. Yeah. Without taking the consideration. I'm not saying you're wrong, but of course the adjustment only works one way, right? When the price goes down, they don't...

Oh, they're not going to adjust it higher. Of course not. And so, like, you know, why, then that argument's fine, but it kind of dies when you think about the other side. You know, I just, there's more and more, in my opinion, likelihood that these guys end up being acquired by somebody. I think wealth simple is a good target for that. What do they want?

Their user, their database users? Their users, yeah, the software, I don't know, whatever. I just, I'm having a hard time figuring out what the, what is the shake pay product that's going to get people to come back and use the app? I just don't know what it is. Do you think that they are the most widely used? Yeah, for sure. In Canada.

For now. But even like, you know, like other companies are, I think, like, I think they're going the wrong direction. Like, I look at Bitcoin well adding stuff like this too. And I just think why, you know? Bitcoin while's adding what? I think they added some other banking services to their platform too. I'm pretty sure.

I'd have to go look. But like, if you're trying to be successful as a as a Bitcoin exchange, you need to be focused on the exchange part. Like, you need to be focused on making sure that people get the product there after when they come on your platform. And if people want to buy Bitcoin and sell Bitcoin on your platform, then you damn well better be the best at it because there's other places you can do all that other shit that you're not going to ever, ever be better.

better at than them ever like there's no way you know and like sometimes i get on well simple because this seems to me like they're becoming a bit of a cruise line or two and they don't pivot quickly and don't add stuff quickly but you know i have to say which of those companies has innovated more over the last three years it's been well simple not shake pay and like they're they're they're trying to play catch up now with with uh digital tradfly and they're just not they're not able to do it they're not able to do it uh in my opinion anyways If someone can tell me why I'm wrong, it looks like the chat, you know, broadly agrees. But, you know, is what it is, man.

This is, like you said, bound to happen. And it seems to me like it's going to continue to corporatize over there. And that's all there is to it. Sure. Corporatization of Bitcoin at Bitcoin Treasury companies is talk about them. It looks like they're starting to buckle. Some of them are starting to sell some Bitcoin paper summer is long gone. and we're in the dead of winter.

Company by name of Satsuma. Just another. Never heard of this company before. Sat Suma. And it's a UK-based firm, and they're publicly traded, and they announced they sold a $579 Bitcoin. I had no idea they had Bitcoin in the balance sheet to begin with. But the reason for this sale, Joey, this is fucked up.

They did this because they didn't plan for Bitcoin to have a bit of a hit. And it has since summer, right? And they needed to pay off a fucking loan. Yes, due December 31. So they had to raise cash, and they had to raise enough to pay 78 million pounds for this loan. That's why they're selling the Bitcoin. So what do they have left, 620 Bitcoin, which means they sold almost not quite half of the Bitcoin that they had before. And one more round of this type of sale, they'll be known as a former Bitcoin Treasury company.

And so this comes off. We had 970 sold by SQ&S. NACA was sold 367. And there's a few of them that it's getting some choppy waters for them. And they got to deal with some loans and some outstanding payments they got to do. And what are they going to do? Sell the Bitcoin at a loss because they still have to take their private jets here and there. Good for that.

Yeah. We've talked about this before. And actually, I was trading voice notes with Mark a couple weeks ago. Well, I was in the car, and we were talking about exactly this, how debt, you know, if you're going to try the micro strategy debt play, then you damn well better have the capital and the cash flow to do this. Structured debt is maybe the most important part of the micro strategy playbook. And these other companies are trying to do it. They're issuing debt and trying to do corporate notes or whatever, but it doesn't work because, as I said, I feel like I've said this a million times, but I'll say it again. The show has new listeners every week, so why not?

You can't out MSTR, MSTR. They can weather the storm more and more effectively than you can or will ever be able to because they just have all the firepower. And if you think you can outdo them, you know, I wish you the best of luck, but this is going to be the outcome. There's going to be more of this. Like, you know, we haven't really talked about Mallor's 21 company either with Cantor and Lutnik and those guys.

We talked about it last week. Yeah, kind of. But, you know, since then, he's done some interviews. That kid's a fucking fraud. He's a fraud. He's like all these Bitcoin treasury guys. Hey, they're not a Bitcoin treasury company. That's what he says.

We're not a treasury company. Okay, well, what's your cash flow? Well, the only thing they do is they buy Bitcoin. Yeah. And where do they put it? Do they put it in their pocket? They put it in the treasury. And they, you know, they will for sure issue corporate debt.

These guys all just copied MSTR or they're trying to. And to me, I just, it's unforgivable. This is an unforgivable mistake. by these companies, and they really did lie to investors. Now, the investors should have known that this was possible because you can look at the way that MSTR is collateralized and over collateralized and strong in terms of their debt balance and their ability to make ends meet on those notes, as we've seen during significant drawdowns, more significant than the one we are experiencing now, by the way. These other guys don't have it. They just don't have

that kind of firepower. And I think for people who are still wrapped up in this treasury company anything, you better find somewhere to go next. You know, if you're, if you're working for one of these companies, if you abandon your former life, if you left your wife and child to travel across the country and become a investment officer, risk officer, Bitcoin specialist of these companies, it's a sinking ship. And you can say, and by the way, you can say, you can say that, oh, well, Bitcoin is going to have value. And so every company will eventually have Bitcoin on the balance sheet. We're just ahead of the game. Okay. But Apple having Bitcoin in the balance sheet is Apple with the Bitcoin treasury. You are just an

overwhelming Bitcoin treasury with debt notes that you can't repay. This is the difference. These guys are able to make 90% of the connections and then that last 10% is where they're going to get their head chopped off. And you're seeing it. We were right about this. We have been right about this for years at this point. The people that are running it, they're living the highlight. As we saw off with Nakamoto's releases. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, they're not filing to the SEC. anymore they're they're just not submitting any any they're going to have to right at some point

they're going to have to for sure but they haven't in the last two months so so i'm i recall correctly i think it was bit farms that had a massive delay i could be wrong but it was one of the canadian it may have been hot and they just it was a very long delay before they filed their earnings so like this is not like never happens it does happen periodically i'm not trying to give them a pass but yeah there may be a reason why you know the jets it must when they took off it must have fumbled the papers. It's now a fucking mess. So they're just laughing at everybody

that's invested in this. It's sad. You know, it's another side one. I mean, good segue, it would be everybody's buddy, Doe Kwan. He is now going to have to serve 15 years in prison for what he's done. So steady lads, the capital is no longer going to be deployed. Do you know what's interesting about the sentencing?

The government wanted a lesser. His team wanted five. The government wanted 13. and the judge gave him 15 and pulled up tweets during the sentencing where he was talking about refusing to argue with pores online and telling people that were questioning him, sorry, leave me alone.

I don't have any change for you. There must be a reason for this. The judge must be buddy, buddy with some politician that's a fucking wrecked from this. There's got to be some connection here. Because to go, look, as you said, five years is what Doe Kwan's team wants. wanted. I was reading 12. You say 13.

One of the two. Sure. Yeah. One of the two. It was close enough. To go to 15, that's a pretty big difference, right, for what they did. He was saying that a 12-year prison sentence or 13-year is, the judge's words, unreasonably lenient. Yeah. And so one victim told CNN that he divorced his wife, or his wife divorced him, divorced him. He said his son had to skip college, And he had to boom back to Croatia to live with his parents after Tara Luna or Terry, the USDA, exactly keep playing that tiny violin, Joey. And it basically ruined his family's life savings.

Another said, another person said, they have to live with the guilt of persuading his, this is brutal, his in-laws and hundreds of non-profit organizations to invest. How do you get hundreds of nonprofit organizations? This guy must have had some real pull. Look, the shit, if it sounds too good to be true. when they were offering 20% or higher APY. And I'm not sure why anybody was looking at it, say, yeah, this is going to be sustainable. And not only that, Joey, if you recall, if you had your stuff locked in and getting this

APY and getting the interest, there was a lockup period. So you couldn't take it off instantly. And so as people were watching the value of Terra go down quickly, they didn't have the ability to take out and sell and convert their, shit went into something else they had to hold on because it was locked up and it was forcibly locked up it's like I say if it sounds too good to be true it is it is especially in this space how many how many different weird scams were going around back in the day it was it was a wild time in bitcoin that era well we had just a shortly

thereafter Celsius yeah blockfy yeah voyager yeah and they were all offering some sort of yield services and then where's the yield come from where does the yield come from you know who never you know who never worried about this leaden ledden never worried about it good for them but everyone else yeah everyone else not only not only did they survive but they seem like the only one who wasn't outright scamming people like knowingly scamming people then going on tv and saying everything was fine that's all those other companies you just mentioned basically had that Zach Prince from Blockby was on Animal Spirits. He was on Compound and Friends, like that whole network of podcasts.

He was probably on Preston's show. He was on McCormick's show. He was probably on TFTC. Like, you, you, you, there's no penalty harsh enough for these people. There's not. As someone in the chat mentioned, you know, the judge receiving letters from people who thought about ending their own lives after that disaster. Why should that guy get anything less than a life sentence, honestly?

What, like, what is the, what is the penalty for that? I like that kind of, for that kind of damaging, you know? You can't recover. And by the way, like in this economy, if you lose your life savings, you can't recover. So you're done. You only get one pass on this green earth. So you're, you're toast already. Who was that guy that put the tattoo on his arm?

That was from Voyager. Yeah, it was. And Novagrats, Novigrats. Yeah. Galaxy. Idiot. That guy, too. Fucking morgue.

Incredible. He was so fucking sold on that. He decided to put a permanent picture on his bicep. Good for him. What a stupid decision. The guy that's running the company, if you believe he makes stupid decisions on his body, what do you think he's going to do for the company? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. if you can't manage your own body like that yeah i can't even i can't even get a good tattoo and i'm you know managing your money or whatever galaxy digital have fun and he may be doing well with galaxy digital i mean in the past little while but in the long run it just poor decisions i don't know i don't know it's fucking about ledger ledger doing more ledger shit yeah this came across my ex feed this past week and i felt dirty just reading it it was that fucking bad somebody posted that they got their hands on a ledger flex

and not just any flex, Joey. This is a Bonk Enu branded ledger. A what? Bonk Enu. Fuck is that. Bonk Enu. Some bullshit that cartoons

and stuff like I. Joey, this is limited edition, by the way. Limited edition. So the version wear apparel just keeps getting new additions every fucking week. They could add this to putting it to the hat. Imagine being a thief out there and you're going out, you do the $5

wrench attack and you're getting your hands on the signing device. You open up, you realize it's a fucking bongy new branded ledger. You know, that thing is fucking stuff full of garbage that can use to do money every fucking day. Ledger could do so much better, but they just continually do this bullshit. I do this story because I want to make sure anybody out there, having a ledger is better than leaving an exchange but you can still do a lot better than that don't look for being mediocre look for much better especially when you're dealing with your bitcoin something like a cold card i know it i use it there may be something as good at to it but i haven't used it so i can't say it but the cold card when done right works fucking great yeah you don't you don't need anything else honestly i was talking to a few people last night at dinner about you know the wallet scene whatever and people are still not using cold card as top of funnel but i do think that it's basically everybody's second wallet right like once you realize what this thing can do and how so how much more secure it is

it's kind of an obvious obvious jump right it seems to be the case you know we mentioned block five we didn't talk about pomp and the shooting of the arrows into oh god yeah i've heard that rocket ship get on board yeah somebody mentioned him and his wife him and his wife who ended up like writing a book He also just launched a company, I'm pretty sure. So these guys are all just launching treasury companies. His company is called, I think the tickers burr, maybe. We must have talked about it. We probably did, honestly, but it seems to me the scams are just so so bountiful at this point

that I'm forgetting week to week what we already shit on on this program. But anyway, yeah, so he's another guy who's probably broken the back. a lot of investors over the years. And like I said, we have had people on this show who after the show tell us like big time names over the years. You can go back and listen or look and try to figure out who I'm talking about. But more than once, we had people tell us that they could not believe certain investors that friends are theirs got into bed with Pompeiano. They all think he's a fucking idiot. All of them. And it's hard to disagree with that, honestly. You think he's taking a private jet? I think that he realizes his public persona is

taking a bit of a hit he hasn't been asked to be on msnbc i don't think in a while or cnbc he ain't flying coach i got to garren fucking no definitely not definitely not yeah he's taking his own personally branded plane the pomp the pomp uh learjet all right this uh france there's some interesting development going on over there yeah lawmakers they're pushing for something that would become law it's through an amendment uh so this would be amending an existing law but you know it looks like it's at the final stages of being fucking put in place, which is crazy. What it is, it's going to mandate that French residents declare their Bitcoin holdings to the government.

You have to tell them, as long as it's valued over 5K euros and it's in self-costity. So if you have your own cold card and there's more than 5K euros on there worth of Bitcoin, you got to fucking disclose, right? the question is why is this needed why do they have to get this information why do you have to collect this is now we know there comes something

you know if you listen to us in access of easy every week you understand that these are honeypots you need to be listening to Access of Easy okay because we talk about this stuff Mark and his team over there doing security and like I always say data breaching and overreaching

they are on this shit a month before it shows up in the Bitcoin space. You would know about this already if you'd listen to that show. I, again, I'm biased because we do the show, but they're right. We know a lot of stuff. We do mention that these honeypots and governments don't do the greatest of jobs with securing this type of data.

Yeah. So now they're going to have a database of who has how much Bitcoin that this could potentially be taken by a third party, a bad actor. and they could use this information the $5 stale baguette attack will be a fucking reality as a result of this mark my words

yeah they don't give a shit about like Somali migrants coming over they don't know who the fuck is on these little dingy boats by the way doctors and engineers can't build a better boat than that okay now I've heard it all so they don't give a flying fuck about any of that

but if you hold $5,000 worth of Bitcoin on your ledger cold card treasor whatever they want to know they want to know what you got And we know why they want to know this because they want to tax it. They hate that people are using outside money. They hate that no one trusts the state. Macron's, you know, in another world a hurt because of the stuff going on with his wife as well.

Like, he's not, it's amazing that guy has retained power for so long. He's been close to losing it a few times. So it always seems to pull a rabbit out of the hat, right? The le pan at the chapeau. But I. The pen is, yeah, she's gone, eh? No, La Pan, the rabbit out of the hat. Le Pen is not going. She's still

operating. Her daughter's operating in France. Yeah, I thought they barred her from running again for some reason. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. France is a lost cause, by the way. Like, just in general. And they're getting cozy to having a war breakout. Yeah, I know. I know. I can't wait to go to war for my

non-culture economic zone. My culture-free economic zone. And they hold a nuke. They have fucking nooks. I hate him so much. I hate them so much. I can't tell you. I cannot tell you how much I hate him. But I truly agree. Incredibly, we had the one in Australia, the guy in Canada.

This guy in France is the one that lasted the longest. Yeah. All them. Like, he's the last of them. What can you say, man? I don't know. Sting power. He's got it.

He's got the train. Do you still solo mine? Do you still use your bitaxe to solo mine? Yeah, it's over there. It's on right now. Yeah. So, yeah, some solo miner got lucky this past week. It made all like a bandit.

It was a solo C. user, beat the odds block 927-474, if you want to look it up. Get it tattooed on your back, buddy. That's huge. No, no, no. Put it in the forehead. If you're really going to do it. If I have a walking billboard, then people come after you.

And, of course, have the ledger hat on top of that. Oh, I need it. No, it's a must. Yeah, it's a must. Yeah. You got laid that day. CK pool developer was saying that the odds of this happening was around 1 in 30,000. And the reason why the odds were so decent is they had 270 tarahash to win imagine this jury you're now in a mining game you understand mining 270 this guy was dedicating 270 tarash all the capital cost

to purchase that the electricity costs daily just a solo mine and this guy may have never got it and he was doing that and so good for him and if by chance you know you're trying to use something that is a little bit more modest maybe a six tarahash model the odds of getting a mining a block is around one in 800 sorry one in 180 million 180 million so you're saying there's a chance there's always every 10 minutes you're getting that one in 180 million and so the hash rate the hash rate for this guy 270 terah hash apparently he had three different machines each running at 90 terra hash per second so it sounds like three s 19 models he was running yeah and the estimated hash rate of the whole network was run 1.1 Zeta hashers

Ceta hash and I don't know how to pronounce that as of December 11th. And so this guy made pretty good. 1.1.125 BTC and also just a fraction of a Bitcoin. 0.008 BTC and transaction fees.

So it's always possible. Pretty solid. I like that. That's a... Yeah, I'm always encouraged by those stories. I mean, obviously the likelihood that you hit with a bit of x basically zero, but Correct. Yeah, lottery ticket. I mean, here in Dundas, they're playing Chase the Ace. People are buying lottery tickets for that. The jackpot's up to almost a million dollars now. So you could do that or you could just run a home miner. And Boomer is right. Saying in the chat right now, the home mining is a great sub community. I totally agree. I totally agree. It's a really, really fun part of being a bickoner. See that banks in the U.S. now have been given the green light. They could hold on the Bitcoin for clients.

This is crazy to me because a year ago, this was unthinkable. Two years ago, it was not even on the table. And now we're basically one step away from Bitcoin as collateral with major banking institutions in the United States. What a shift this has been. Yeah. So you're able to hold by even trade Bitcoin using certain banks. Yeah. And Coinbase is involved with all this.

They're offering up your crypto as a service tool. My bags, baby. All my bags. And one of the bank's PNC Bank came out with us. They said they'll provide trusted, secure, and innovative digital asset solutions to their private banking clients. To the best of my knowledge, there's no ability to withdraw any Bitcoin. It's a one-way thing. You can buy it.

You could trade it, but you know, you could sell it. But it's not, you can buy Bitcoin and move it to an address to you want to. At least nothing has been discussed as of yet. Maybe in the future, who knows? But yeah, it's fucking nutty that they're allowing banks to do this now. And still the price goes down. Yeah, I know. That's the other problem.

All these guys are supposed to be holding Bitcoin, not selling, and their price just keeps dropping. You know what's interesting, too? This is unrelated. But MSTR bought $2 billion worth of Bitcoin over the last like 10 days. And the price is still dropping precipitously. I wonder what the price would be otherwise. Anyway, back to the bank thing.

How long until Canada? I heard there was going to be a mid-tier bank that's going to be offering this about four years ago. We had a guest to come on the show and tell us that afterwards. That's right. And it pumped the fucking stock up Like I don't know

There's so much They're so conservative here in Canada Are they can't are they Okay let me ask you though Are they conservative Because they're being told to be conservative Or because they want to be conservative That's what that's the question

If they have any ability to make more money Would they do that, Joey? Regardless if it's at any It depends I think it's right. I think it depends. I think it depends. I think you could make the case that banks actually don't want to do this because it will cut into their deposits.

Deposits are the thing that matters for them. If they could put a case for it, they're going to make more money, they don't care. Yeah. It's the bottom line for them is they want to make money regardless of the outcomes. The only thing that they want is just more. And so the only thing that's stopping them, in my opinion, is regulations. Okay. I'm sure.

Sure. Joy, I think that's it for the Bitcoin stuff. I have a fucking ton. That's great, because I'm exhausted. And so now you're going to drag me through the mud here on another hour of fun. So let's get after it. I'm ready. I had a coffee beforehand.

So I'm able to continue here. If you're on audio tomorrow, the rest of the show will release. If you're on video with us now on YouTube, Twitter, wherever, stay here, hang out, get a coffee at your own. Get a nice stout beer. I bought some stouts at the liquor store yesterday. had a couple. They're not bad. Get something. And we'll be right back. We'll see you soon. Don't be a cuck. Classic. Return to the classic.