The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Is Your Bitcoin Ready for QUANTUM? | The CBP 238 Pt 1

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESIs your Bitcoin ready for Quantum? Can you REALLY protect your coin from the coming Quantum security issues? Trezor thinks so, let's find out.Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat -⁠ https://256heat.com/ ⁠ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

creating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Levin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and easy DNS. The media is feeding a slop. it doesn't matter what topics discussed quality entertainment and information you can trust uh that's being planned or at least discussed you know we're not going to allow the entertainment and information you can trust

send the guys some value boost them with some stats bitcoin is the scarcity acid i mean it's just a fact geopolitical national down to the local friends and enemies welcome back to the canadian bitcoiners podcast where we are quantum resistant and rated b minus on the debt markets my name is joey that's land what's going on buddy good to see you how are you oh no i'm better than d uh b minus so just uh as a joke today joey i'm not sure if you're aware but the bank we used to deal with they called me today they called me up under the blue yeah yeah which bank the one we dealt with and luca duca whatever yeah they're saying that they had some sort of special going on for small businesses that's something eh that's and i just gave

of peace of my mind. I said, thank you guys. Yeah, I told me we're outside your risk appetite and what the fuck you're calling me for. Yeah. Fuck you. I'll go up. I love it. How are you? Welcome back. Thanks, man. It's been a busy couple of weeks.

Let's do we'll do the sponsors and we'll do some housekeeping and we'll talk about what's going on tonight. A lot of big stories this week, including a couple from today. MSTR obviously grabbing a rating from S&P of B minus. People are hyped about that. I don't know why we can talk about all this stuff.

But we don't have to go into detail. But yeah, it's interesting all the same because there's a lot of people getting hyped over this for no reason. But versus sponsors. Easy DNS. I enjoyed a couple of meals with Mark in Montreal. He did not get sick. So he is doing something right. Maybe his vitamin regime, his vitamin regimen stronger than mine.

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and the team over there at easy DNS we love them you will as well so go check them out dark web that's a name that's probably going to change in it and not too distant the future it seems like it's uh giving that's your is it racist is that why perhaps interesting okay underground web something like that true fair talk about bull bitcoin right they sponsor us as well then we should give them their just desserts because they do a good job for us they do a good job for you what do they do you could buy you could sell your bitcoin on chain lightning fees are still relatively low so definitely do your on chain buys right now when fees grew up and they'll be happy to sell you or buy from you your bitcoin using the lightning you could also pay your bills you could send people

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before Brampton, Man, Hamilton, man. I'm going to do a conference wrap-up here, if you'll indulge me since I was away last week. A couple of people I want to thank. Number one, Dan and Manuela Carlin and the conference team. Like, unbelievable. Just the organization that goes into that conference, man, compared to the first year when I was the MC,

just an unbelievably well-oiled machine with a lot of people on the same. page all day, every day, and sometimes also at night and before the conference as well, getting stuff done, making changes to the schedule, making sure that everybody's happy in their chairs, enjoying the content and enjoying the side quest as well. Unbelievable job by them. And I want to thank them for giving me another chance to host that conference. The first year, you know, I wasn't my best self, I would say. I was a little hungover both days, a lot hungover both days, actually.

And this time I, you know, made it my mission to really focus on that task for both days and got a lot of good feedback from them and from the people in attendance. Really love that, that opportunity. So thank you to them. Big thanks as well to all the vendors and sponsors and people who are just running around behind the scenes of volunteers. I met a lot of you guys, some for the first time, some, you know, just reacquainting ourselves after, you know, a year away from each other. amazing man. Len, you have no idea how many people came up to me from the crowd, from the speakers list, from the vendors, and everyone asking the same question. Where's Len? And I couldn't go. I made this joke to Boomer and D and Fundamentals and Business

Cat when we were recording. And Boomer made a great comment, you know, how many people do you think asked, you know, Nico where the other guy from Simply Bitcoin was. My guess is not many. And I realized it's Canadian conference and I realized that maybe you and me are playing a home game at something like that. But it really did speak to me because I think a lot of people do care about the show that we do. And obviously the show has grown quite a bit in the last two years. And I think it goes a long way when people, you know, make comments like that and say how happy they are to see me and meet me and ask about you and ask about stuff we talked about like ask about my daughter, ask about my wife,

ask about, like, you know, how life is a father is and all this stuff. Incredible. Special thanks to, like, Larry Lepard, Corey from Hodlars, made us both custom CBP shirts, Len. So I have to give you yours next time I see you at work. I just bought a jersey off of Corey. I mean, I'll forget people if I keep going. But the number of people I was like super fortunate to meet and hang out with and break bread with the bull guys.

Obviously, Mark, obviously goes to saying, Twan was there as well. Good to see the CBP. sponsor, roster, really reping hard at that conference. And then obviously the famous, very exclusive bull Bitcoin steak dinner on Friday night, having a few bottles of red with those guys and their wives and their girlfriends and all this stuff. And just being around those people, man, energizing to say the least. And so, you know, a job well done by everybody involved in that conference this year.

I was so honored to be a part of it. And I hope to do it again next year, man. I can't wait. It was a lot of fun. So thank you, everyone. And of course, thank you,

T. Yuland for pulling down the fort while I was gone and sick and traveling to Monday night football games and all this other two weeks. It was an interesting time. I had to go to an event that I had to bail out of on last Saturday. A family member, I don't want to go to specifics. We have a cancer patient now in our family.

Okay. so because of that my scheduling for the past week and a half yeah it's been more than that so yeah and then on top of all this my fucking dog got fucking sprayed by a skunk yesterday disaster on top of all this bullshit so like you know be thankful people out there you too joey that you guys have your health because you can't fucking buy it yes sir uh how young you are how old you are how old you are what you do something is a fucking roll of the dice. And that's what we're, you know, so you never know when you get some bad news like that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Hang in there, buddy.

We're all thinking of you. No, no, I'm fine. I'm like a rock. Yeah, I know. You're the emotionless wonder on the other side of the camera there. Am I? I don't know. I wear my.

Depends on the content of the show. Anyway, you want to do some boost? Yeah. We have wartime, 133 sets and he writes in four of my favorite guys and three sticks

of dynamites and this is with your business cat and fundamentals yeah for who is the fourth boomer and D also make an appearance in that podcast yeah so it was a fun fun show I think he's I don't think

I'm included in that list of four favorite guys maybe it's just a given if he's listening to our show but yeah it was That was a lot of fun. And, you know, I don't want to, I won't use names, but I listened to rock paper Bitcoin yesterday and this morning and or was yesterday this morning or two nights ago, I forget. But anyway, they had some very generous words about, very flattering words I should say about me and about you and about the show and about Canada in general and the conference.

I think everyone should listen to, I mean, I'm wearing my rock paper Bitcoin shirt, which I was gifted by, I won't say his name, but business cat. at the conference. So, yeah, I really appreciate those guys. They're a great hang, man, those two. Len, they're as different as you and me, by the way, in terms of their demeanor, age, just general kind of mores between the two of them.

It's an interesting pairing, much like you and I are. Yeah, I heard that. It was a very good episode. They're really nice guys. I like hearing them. And BusinessCat does stream us quite a few stats when you listen. So a big appreciation to him. Show to you guys, man.

Yeah. Next we have Top W. Cone 250 sats. And he sends in a link for the Hamilton versus Branton Man segment. And yeah, like I appreciate you sending that link. That was the story that I have lined up today. So it's in conjunction with what I'm going to be doing. So yeah, thank you. If anybody else has any of their suggestions, feel free to send him my way.

So I am going to use your suggestion Top W Cohn. I found that story just a day or two before you sent it in and I thought it was just dynamite. So yeah, we'll have fun with that one. Is it recent? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We're not slipping into the archives here. This is very recent. And you may have heard of this

one because it's recent enough. But maybe because you're busy, you didn't. Either way, Moe, BTC, Dick, 500 sats. He says, quality, entertainment and information we can trust. This is with respect to the last rip you did on Sunday this sip and sip and rip man I am I am determined to put out more content on this channel I told Len he should do the same he should find a solo rip he enjoys doing and do it

I don't know I don't know people no you have no idea that how much my time is now stretched it's it's tough now I'm gonna I'm gonna try and do these sip and rips I got a lot of good feedback on it because we do you know how long is the show we do land it's like an hour and a half after the housekeeping and stuff it's about an hour and half of it we try and give

to the notable stories and so you end up with like a whole you're probably in the same boat if I look at the stories Len sends for the show we probably only cover 70% of them

ish you know what I mean a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor that I end up just never using or talking about so I'm going to start

talking about them on Sunday over a cup of coffee it's not much for me to do and I may as well get some of the stuff off my chest you know in the sort of lead up the intro the show is growing people obviously want to hear this stuff from us and so why not give it to them in a way that makes sense and i think that makes

sense for now and we have jair 500 sats and he says bless you he says great rip and this is uh with your uh interview with rock paper bitcoin folks appreciate it man yeah i mean that was a lot fun like i said they were very very kind gentlemen those two from the u.s of bay but not least we have bow bow tummy 20 24 sats and he says i would like to see in edmonton versus calgary man segment pretty stupid shit happens here too we could do we need a western contingent is that we need we made west like i think it may be time we just do a fucking show of just city versus city just maybe maybe that could be our new year's episode yeah yeah we could just do a fucking story, yeah.

Are we going to do a budget episode next week? The budget comes out on Tuesday, I think, right? So. It might be worth it. I don't know. Yeah. I'll give you, like, my wife, she had to sleep away this yesterday. It's like, we're just like busy.

You're locked in. You're locked in. Okay. I'll think about it. Maybe if I can get someone else to co-host it with me, I'll do it. And we'll do a little budget reaction show because I suspect it's going to be. be fireworks but we'll see we'll see I had to like really bend

over for this one and I wanted to on Wednesday Mr. R. Nome is coming on because he wants to that guy has been so good to meet us and I just want to give him a form he has multiple

forms I want to give him another one but the recent activity with the BIP 444 and the Nauts thing he is very vocal on that front and I think a lot of people would love to hear what he has to say. If then good way to get brought to speed with what's going on there. So Wednesday, probably 7 p.m.

He's looking forward to that. That'll be a great show. He's welcome on this air anytime. He's a fantastic guest, well spoken and knowledgeable, obviously. Yeah. And that's it for the shit. I got to rhyme off here. We're already 15 minutes in.

Let's dive in. Let's dive in. All right, Treasurer, buddy, treasurer. Let's talk about these guys. Quantum. Are you quantum resistant? Are you quantum resistant over there in your basement? Does it look like I'm quantum-resistant?

I don't know. No, no. It's something that they released called the Treasure 7, Starvation, sorry, Treasure Safe 7. So it's a new signing device. That's supposed to be quantum ready. And not entirely sure what that means, but this is apparently equipped with an auditable secure element ship. And that was done with transparency in mind. They got multiple secure elements chips within this.

And there's encrypted Bluetooth, and they say that you could trade while traveling with this thing. I'm a hoddler, you two, Joey, so this doesn't impact us. It's 100% open source code, which is good, I guess. They say the quantum ready stuff means that the device can be updated in the future to have some level of protection against quantum secure stuff. So this seems like a pipe dream right now. it had nothing has really come out but treasurer's really using this as a marketing tool to try to push this device there is a magnetic wireless charging so no need to attach a wire to device for people

that don't want to do that so i guess that's pretty cool it sounds nice i like the open source thing i like open source rather than a close source if possible um but like this quantum stuff it's i'm calling bullshit on it uh let's be honest what the fuck is this really in the end if you you look at the history of treasurer and treasurer has a very long history it's spotty right like even recently back in january 2024 treasure disclosed and there was an unauthorized access to a third party ticket supporting system their portal over there got to love the outsourcing of this shit they're doing the same thing we talked about this on access of easy this happens quite often when you're using a third party to administer something like ticketing system another one that got poned as a result

And what was exposed in that one? This was only January 2024. You're not a treasure, treasurer user, are you, Joey? I don't have one. No, I've actually never had one. I had a nano, but I obviously now I'm a coin cake guy. Good for you because they expose the names or usernames and email addresses of the 66,000 treasure customers that contacted customer support as far back as December 2021.

And what resulted from that, well, there was phishing emails that came, right? They were trying to trick users and to attempt to giving away the seed phrases, the recovery for that. And also they had another one, their third party email marketing provider, MailChimp. They suffered a security incident and exposed email addresses of users who subscribed to the Treasurer newsletter. I don't know any way to we'd want to subscribe to the Treasurer newsletter. But if you did, unfortunately, you may have been subjected to this. There was another fishing attack with respect to that, trying to steal user recovery seeds. But fuck, think about this.

These guys are trying to secure your fucking Bitcoin. Even their ex account was hacked. Yeah. Last year, March 24, Tuesday, 19th, March, 24 to the speech specific. And I want to go through this. I want you to understand what the fuck we're dealing with with Treasurer. And I copied and pasted this right from the Treasurer blog. So I didn't add any, my commentary.

This is not my fucking, this is straight from them. They said, the breach of our X. account has unfolded to be a sophisticated fishing attack planned over several weeks. From our investigation, we have understood that the attacker engaged in a calculated scheme that began on February 24, posing as a credible entity in the crypto space. Complete with a well-crafted social media presence and a seemingly genuine interest in dialogue, the impersonator using an X handle with thousands of followers approached our PR team over X under the guises scheduling an interview with our CEO.

Over several days, the conversation advanced with credible back-and-forth communications. This set up a stage for a call that accumulated with the sharing of a malicious link disguised in a calendar invite. Our team members clicked a link, was redirected to a page requesting X-logging credentials, a red flag that prompted immediate suspicion, and they stopped interacting with the person. The meeting was rescheduled. At the time in the meeting, the acture feigned technical issues. and urged a team to authorize joining the call. The authorization was, however, a prompt

to connect to the attacker's X-Kanley app with their X account. And they did it because it's urgent. They decided to click on it, and they got poined as a result. Their ex-account was fucking potent. They can't properly handle X accounts. They can't properly do shit internally.

They got to rely on third parties. I'm trying to say here, the device may be decent at best. And I'm giving this just, at best, it's fucking decent. They have no ability to secure your information. They have no ability to secure their fucking accounts. And you're going to have them trust with their devices, your Bitcoin. I would suggest you find somewhere else, some other company in which you should deal with. I'm looking at Coin Kite, for instance.

There's others as well that have a better track record, better devices out there. Stay the fuck away from this Treasure, save or save seven it doesn't even deserve to be called the correct name that's it that's all i got to say these guys are fucking a joke and deserve nothing from us nothing okay i'm gonna take the other side of the coin um this is their best offering yet and uh well it is true that quantum ready is a bit of a marketing term now we will at some point in the next five years probably do a fork that will affect coins that are not protected by quantum or protected against quantum, I should say.

I don't know exactly what that looks like. The technicals are a bit over my head, but it seems to me that regardless of what camp you're in on quantum, there is an understanding that we have to make a change. The only question is, what do you do with the coins that didn't make the change? Do you allow them to be hacked and stolen and sold, or do you force the protection? We talked about this on the show before.

So that's not nothing, but for the time being, it shouldn't factor into a purchase decision, I don't think. if that makes sense. As far as the hardware device itself, like, you know, this is the best thing that's not named a cold card, I would say. Open source,

it's pretty high quality hardware. It's always been high quality hardware from a sort of design perspective, which is important, I think, if you're trying to get people to adopt, if you're trying to get people to adopt self-custody, you need to be appealing aesthetically

because you're now competing against things like ETFs and brokerage accounts and whatnot. You know, well, it's not the most pure form of self-custody. I do think it's better than those things. And so I don't want to dismiss it outright. The thing I wish they would do is just stop with this alt-coin stuff. All-coin support means a wider surface area for attack.

We see this over and over and over again. As soon as you link up with wallets and Metamask and all this other stuff, you are asking for trouble with your holdings, Bitcoin or otherwise. So you have this problem. I don't want to say that these guys don't deserve. of any credit. Like, you know, are they headed the right direction here? I mean, you said it yourself.

You have some stuff here that, well, it's not as, you know, sort of pure and without issue as cold card. It's better than their last device. And I would argue that probably without, you know, without much controversy, this is going to be a much simpler device to use than any cold card model. Doesn't mean it's better. No. Doesn't mean that people shouldn't learn.

No. But as a first step, it's better than any of the other things we talk about on this show being a poor first step, ETS and whatnot, that are difficult to really get people to take into custody and things of this nature. So, yeah, I think there's something here. I know a lot of people who use Trezors, by the way, you know, talking to people at the conference, a lot of different wallets out there that people like. I think people are correctly moving away from ledger because the ledger leaks have been bad, but also the ledger recover thing is just I think a brain dead decision by those guys.

And yeah, I think that foot is legit. But I don't see the same level of issue here. Now, you mentioned the Twitter account and the email thing, you know, third parties. Yeah, you're not, that's a problem. They should resolve that. But directionally, this is okay with me. It's going the right way. Am I going to get one?

No. Do I recommend that anyone else get one? Probably not. You could do better with the cold. That should be it. Especially at this price. You can do better with the cold fare. Those two questions that you answered, number one,

you're not going to get one number two you're not going to recommend it that's that is enough to say this is the thing i'd recommend right after the cold card it'd be this see i would say seat signer there's far better devices too hard it's too hard it's too hard people people who want to do self custody for the first time are not going to get a seed signer i love the enthusiasm like you and i disagree on this obviously i love the enthusiasm i think you're correct that those are good devices and it's an important learning process but no one coming from an etf is going to a seed signer They might go to this, though. You have to understand an ETF is anything but Bitcoin.

It's just something that is... Yeah, yeah. I'm not to screen with you. Not to screen with you there. So there's nothing there that is Bitcoin aside from the price, mostly. Even that you have to be subjected to management fees. So when you're talking in Bitcoin, and we're talking about your identity, your information, you don't want to give that up.

And their track record speaks for... itself. They may release a good device, but we're not talking ancient history here. We're talking just last fucking year that these things happened. And so for me, when I'm looking at that, it's hard to forgive something

that recent. They need to cleanse themselves over a longer period of time and issue better devices. I know that NVK was out there talking about the secure element ship. It's a TROI-C-O-1. That's one that's included in this. And he was very negative about this. saying that this was never used in an intended form of signing partially Bitcoin signed transactions.

So partially signed Bitcoin transaction, sorry. So that's way beyond my pay grade. I respect NVK, and I'm going to basically listen to what he's saying on this. He might be biased given his stance. Doesn't mean he's wrong. Doesn't mean he's wrong. Correct. That's exactly it. That's exactly it.

So these guys, I don't care if they. present a good uh or better thing than before but it's still not the best like it's still something else it's like you ask me would you really get shot in a leg or the arm and one is better than the other i agree but i would rather have none of them i'd rather get fucking not shot and hold on like my cold card which is essentially or something similar to like i'd say it's seed signer pretty darn good but i think we just respectfully disagree on this we've fuck we've been in this space for long enough we've been like for we've been doing the show four years almost four and a half years yeah five years almost you're right yeah that's a that's a long time right like i i can understand

maybe at the onset maybe we could you know we didn't have all the information we're still kind of a little wet behind a year yeah okay we're talking about leisure and treasur being a little bit as a better alternative or the alternatives when we first started sure but not now man like you you've gone through this so many fucking times we see so many people who get rugged if you secure it properly and people can't fuck people used to remember telephone numbers many of them for their friends and family yeah 12 words if you really want to boil it down if it's your fucking wealth it doesn't take that much to fucking remember that like i don't know what you want me to say like this is the i am slowly becoming a more pragmatic evangelist in that

I don't think now it's worth my time to convince people that they have to go with, you know, the thing that's more difficult. But, you know, if you use the same like passphrase, seed phrase, you stamp it out on some metal, you've stashed somewhere where you can't get it and you don't go crazy on the device itself with all this other nonsense. Like, let's face it, you're pretty good shape. You're in pretty good shape if you can do those things. So, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, Trezer has never had a hardware hacking issue that ended up with lost coins, save for one time, which I think, I think Colcard also actually had one, where if someone buys a device, has sophisticated equipment and unlimited physical access to the device, like, can it get into some of the data? Yeah, but can it get the coins is a different story entirely. I don't think it's happened on any of these devices.

So, you know, all that to say that there are levels to this, as the kids, as kids say, and I don't know where I come down on, you know, should I dismiss this outright? I don't think that I will. But, you know, as always, though, Len, I reserve the right to change my mind. Time will tell. If this thing turns out to have problems or there's a hardware issue or this chip is not, you know, as NVK says, fit for this use, then we go the other way. we tell people when things change that's what that's what this show's about i'm steadfast i'm this

thing because you know why joy the um what what you call it what what ledger did podcast yeah what ledger did yeah yeah you coined that right maybe i don't know it's been a while now so somebody like that and when he used to do the show he he he's been in the space even like when he was doing a show for a long time he should have known what What is the, what you should be steering people towards. And he did it in such a way that he steered them to a device that has issues that they've lost, not people's coins, but people's information. And shit like that, that's the wrong way.

That's, that's not where you should steer people right off the bat. Like, show them the best. And if they want to get something worse than that, that's their choice. But at least your conscience of clear, like you told them the best. And that's the way I'm going to be. Like, I know it's harder to be. cold card. But let's be perfectly honest, like, this is not something that

you have to be fucking around with. If it's your wealth, take the time, take the Yeah, I don't recommend messing around for sure. But, um, yeah, anyway, okay, great. CZ. Let's talk about CZ. Pardoned. Pardoned. Incredible by Trump, right? He served something

like four months in prison. Did you? Okay, let me ask you, did you watch the video where Trump has asked about pardoning CZ? Yeah. And he's like, I don't even know who that is. that's my fucking problem See that's my fucking problem He doesn't know who he is And he doesn't know much about him

Aside from the fact that he has lots of support Seasy has lots of support Who was it? Because somebody within the Trump camp Eric Trump maybe I don't know Was banging the war drums Having them say let's get this guy A pardon

And I know Trump was saying that In that press conference That CIS was being persecuted by the Biden administration. And that's one of the reasons why he went ahead and did his pardon. He did a plea bargain, CZ did, and it was due to anti-money laundering stuff. And that's, you know, Binance was failing to employ the anti-money laundering stuff.

And that's why he went to jail. But if you recall, at least that I believe it is, if you recall Binance was apparently instructing U.S. customers to use VPNs. They were saying at least as early as 2019 April, Binance published a guide on, this is from the U.S. government, on the Binance Academy section on its website titled A Beginner's Guide to VPNs. Binance VPN guide explained to Binance customers that if you want to be private about the websites you visit and your location, you should use a VPN.

And Binance VPN guide also hint you might want to use a VPN to unlock sites that are restricted in your country. So they were telling people directly or indirectly, depending on how you want to read it. I would say that's directly. I agree. This we discussed at length. This was back in 2023. He runs a centralized exchange. Now, if you want to run a centralized exchange, you have to follow the rules of the land.

If you don't, you're going to have a bullseye that's going to be placed on your back. And something happened to him here. So you had to go to jail. but with respect to the pardoning something smells fishy here. If you go look at this, there's rumblings that Binance and

World Liberty Financial we haven't talked about them very much this is the Trump camp is involved with. Well, Binance has become a key supporter of that company. World Liberty Financial, they have a stable coin.

The code from their stable coin came from Binance. they wrote all the code. And there was also a $2 billion investment made in the company that either came directly or indirectly from Binance. A lot of bullshit going on here. Like what I'm looking at is insiders getting preferential favoritism, all this treatment.

And you and I are just like, look, Trump, he, this version of Trump, brutal absolutely brutal I don't give a shit about the tariffs it's just other things it's just looking like it's about trying to make as much money as possible for himself

his friends and his family and this is another one just doing a favor doing a solid for one of your folks it's bullshit it's absolute fucking bullshit what would you I uh yeah I don't really

this doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you I think that the one thing I appreciate about Trump, too, is that the Gryft is front and center. So I know that he's pumping markets. I know that he's pumping Bitcoin. I know that his kids are out there pumping alts and pumping Bitcoin. I know that he's, you know, taking what's probably the generous term would be donations for this ballroom. Like I appreciate that I can see it right out in front of me here and map out, you know, where things are coming from and what they're doing. I would recommend to people that instead of getting mad,

you know, when one of the Trump kids tweets out on a Friday afternoon, buy Bitcoin, just buy some. When one of the Trump kids tweets out on a Friday afternoon, I would hate to be selling Bitcoin right now, buy some. When Bo Heinz, who just worked in the administration, sells, man, it would suck to be somebody who was selling Bitcoin, buy some. Like, don't whine and cry, not that you're doing this, but don't whine and cry about, oh, he's enriching himself,

oh, he's doing this, just get rich with him. There's two kinds of people in this world. There's people who play within the system and the rules that they see laid out in front of them and take the opportunities presented, right? And then there's people who complain and cry about it and stay poor and annoying and eat veggie burgers and crickets for the rest of their lives. Which one do you want to be? You want to be the one that took the advice?

The president of the United States tells you when to buy stocks and Bitcoin. And you want to be the guy who's bearish who's complaining about the grift. I don't recommend that. I think that is a you will find yourself to be spiritually distressed with enough time. Just ride the wave, man. He's telling you when the wave is coming in. We're lucky. The other president couldn't even string a couple of words together.

This guy's telling you when to buy stocks. You can't beat that. You're normalizing garbage behavior. It is garbage behavior. But the thing is that everyone is doing it anyway. Right. So that doesn't mean advantage of it. You may take advantage of it.

but it does not mean we should accept this and say this is something we strive to become run for office i have no desire too but at the very at the same time i could call out what is bullshit and what is not and this certainly is bullshit it is bullshit for sure yep right and so what we're going to just say oh just do whatever like no man we got to strive for something but this is when the next election comes around are you're going to go for the one that is going to present the best thing for you probably right i would like yeah yeah somebody that has character or something that's right like somebody that is decent you know if they're going to be out there and just going to try rape and pillage and you could be parting that rape and pillaging crew yeah

you're just you just bringing down the system they're going to do it anyway that that's the thing i'm not saying you're wrong like we should want more from our our great men and women right this is the uh the goal in politics right there's you know certain uh historic thinkers who would make the case that politics really should be governance by the great and what we get instead is governance by the people with the biggest PR invoices and it shows right everything is a soundbite everything is 30 seconds I look forward to um the next election either here or in the states because I think the candidates coming through the pipeline are going to be truly tick-to-brained and just grifting like we have never seen before because at the

the day you know what the other thing is lamb the empire is in decline clearly and so you're running at a time to really rip out of the trough all the sweets and goodies and bonbons and riches that you can the trough is starting to empty out and so like it's only going to get worse here regardless of who we put in power it's only going to get worse because that's just the way this has to go it's always been getting worse for the past 53 54 years 54 years right so it has been getting worse and we all know the reason why it's just a rate of change and how quick it's it's happening ultimately i mean this is the way i look at it you want to have a decent life for yourself for your kids you don't want to live in fear of having being mugged or killed or having your house rents act as you leave the house or even while

you're living in it still while you're still there like you want to be living in a civil society at least that's what i believe we want i mean i don't want to speak for everybody that's what i want. So I just, I want to make sure that moving forward that we are well represented, we have people out there that hopefully have the best intentions. I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to hold my breath. It's going to be the case, though. Right? That's just the reality. But just because it's shit, I'm not going to accept shit. I'm going to call out bullshit. And this is bullshit. I'm going to call out. I'll do it again next time that happens. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck at all. Fuck it all.

B.C. Woman, let's talk about this article that was posted by, I think, Bitcoin all caps on the Bitcoin CA subreddit. The captain. The captain of the subreddit. I hope he shows up to on Wednesday, too. Either way, the article is titled BC Woman, who lost $670,000 in crypto scam, fails to recover funds in Supreme Court. And she went to the BC Supreme Court, a decision came out, and it was involving, her name wasn't released for whatever reason, maybe because it's too embarrassing. I don't know. Either way, she didn't want to release it. She was convinced by a new friend to send a small amount ranging from $500 to $1,000 in this investment, which would have generous returns. and the returns would be in a range of around 1% per day.

If that's not a red flag, I don't know what. Wasn't there another token like 2020, 2020, 2021 era that was giving the same thing? 1% a day? Yeah. And it was like you and eventually people, like everyone kind of knew that it was a scam, but they're like, I don't know, maybe there'll be someone else who comes in after me. And so they were like trying to, I don't know, I can't remember now the name, It's been so, it feels like it's been like a lifetime since that was warm, but here we are.

I don't remember. I must a memory hold that. 1% a day is an amazing return. It only takes you, I guess, you know, a couple of months of that. You're living on Easy Street. Either way, in order to get the funds, she had to like put into this thing, she fucking remortgaged her house and borrowed money from a friend. And so she opened an account with endax.

That's a Canadian exchange. And on opening the account, she was presented with the user agreement. which she had to review and accept. She did not read the agreement. She claims that. And she clicked on the accept button so that she could open the account. And then she bought $671,000 worth of Eath. She withdrew this to an external wallet.

She tried to initially. She received a warning from Endax. Endax was trying their best here. They trying to confirm with her that this is indeed her address. An employee called her directly to warn her that this is likely a scam, and then she should not go ahead with the transaction. Even emails were sent from her to endax saying, withdraw this immediately. Then four fucking times they got in touch with her.

It was a compliance officer that recorded a call that informed her that there's risks involved here, that she might be involved with some fraud. And if this is done, the transaction would be irreversible. Well, they went through. money was lost and then the Supreme Court decided that Endax did their thing. They tried very hard to make sure that she

wasn't being, oh, she was not to get her scammed and the wallet was indeed a scammer. I can't believe people fall for this. People of means. She had to remortgage a house. She had a house for a number of years. Boomer, right? It had to been a boomer. Fucking, right? There's so many red flags,

especially nowadays. There's lots of scams going on. When you hear somebody, out there, invest in my project, you get good returns, run the fuck away. There's nothing here that is a free lunch. There is no free lunch here. The good thing about Bitcoin is when you buy Bitcoin, there's no yield coming from it. There's nothing. You basically own Bitcoin, partial Bitcoin, or fuck it is. That is it. The value of that may go up and down over time, but that in itself doesn't change. When you deal with these things here, where does the yield come from?

Is there a centralized body running this? Can you get rug pulled? There's so many fucking red flags here. People out there, they just need to do a little bit more reading it to something. I don't know what else to say. Endax, they fucking did a great job. I don't want to talk. They're a chiquint exchange, but they tried very hard to make sure she didn't get rug pulled.

And she did. And she went to the Supreme Court of BC for this. We tied up valuable resources. Yeah. A lot of joke. I want to point out that Bull Bitcoin, if you try to buy Bitcoin and you're a boomer, somebody will call you. And if Bull Bitcoin decides that it's a scam, they won't let you buy the Bitcoin. They'll just tell you no, go buy it somewhere else.

And Doc should have done the same thing. You know, but they tried. No, they didn't. They let her buy it. So Bull Bitcoin will not let you buy. Oh, so they have a hard stock. Yes, we'll call you and be like, listen, Grandma, I know you want to do this. You know you think it's not a scam.

I'm telling you it's a scam. If you want to do it, do it somewhere else. And Dax, all these exchanges should be doing the same thing. I realize that that's a bit, you know, surveillance-y. I don't know what you would call it. But, like, you have to, these people need to be protected from themselves. The boomers are dumb.

They're dumb. They get one-shotted by AI slop, one-shoted by this, one-shoted by that, never ends. Like, what, you know, I don't, I have no sympathy for this person, though, unfortunately. Because the nerve to try and blame the user. agreement, the Yula first. I never read it. I just clicked through, okay, well, you're going to read it. And then to blame the exchanges, then trying to take it to the

Supreme Court. Like, where do you, what do you think is going to happen? Have a little shame. I made a mistake. Sorry, I won't do it again. I'll turn my computer in. I'll return to the AOL online days. Waldgarden only, nothing else. You got mail. That's it.

All right. Last week, I was chatting with Boomer about this discussion, the AWS outage. Yep. And I was talking about somebody should run the numbers to see how many, well, they do an analysis on the nodes to see if any nodes, particularly the NOTS nodes, because there's been this discussion out there that Nott's numbers are going up.

And some people are claiming maybe people are using a third-party service, like an Amazon service to spin up a node. So it's not a legitimate node, so to speak. So while we had AWS go out, and it was an excellent opportunity. to look at how many nodes were online before the outage, during the outage, and after the outage. And Bitcoin all caps posted on X. It looks like that the number of knots users went up during that whole transition.

So there was a continually, there's a continuous movement of people getting knots and installing it. And in fact, Bitcoin core account went down by about 5,000 in total, which is very interesting. So this isn't really definitive, but it's at the very least something, a talking point. because there are people running core on Amazon servers, if this is accurate, or there's few knots being run on core. But at the very least,

it goes to show you that there are people that are doing this. And I don't know, just something about this that I've smiled about. I like to see that the knots team, with respect to them running their nodes, their clients on a third party doesn't seem to be accurate i like that yeah and i know knots took a beating in a can you take a beating next little while the image uh has been pretty it's been tarnished today we'll talk about it on wednesday there's a lot going around man with the knots versus uh core debate uh in lugano is it lugano or prague that just happened where there was like

A couple of debates, yeah. And there was like a few, I guess, heated moments between Mechanic and Levera and Luke Dasher and a few other people. I saw online, Stefan Levera being called a bad actor now by people. Like, he's pretty, you know, he's pretty harmless. He's a guy who just hosted an Austrian economics podcast. You know, I'm not convinced he's a bad actor. He may have a different opinion than other people. But I do think this has been probably the most hotly content.

tested Bitcoin debate since we got in more than I think it's even worse than that because the ordnals are you're debating with idiots right but here it seems like people on both sides are like sort of recruiting the what they view it at least is like the best and brightest uh the the ordinal's debate was with people who said like oh well I want to put jpegs on the blockchain like okay that's I guess it's a debate but it's not really a debate the same way this is did you remember how how high the transaction yeah I remember remember i remember yeah sure so there were and it was enough momentum there that mara decided to spin up the slipstream service yeah and it's still an operation as of today yep so i don't know

i would say that there is there was at that time some level of like what the fuck is going on here between the two camps to degree what we have now debatable but yeah it's don't dismiss to dismiss that time. Where do you think this is going to land? I mean, I've asked you this before. I'd be curious to hear what Nome says on Wednesday, but where do you think this is going to land? I think that core is probably going to be

pulling back a little bit. So they're 100,000 kilobyte limit for upper turns. Probably is not going to remain. They'll go to something lower. Maybe go back to the 83 byte limit. That's a huge difference. That's my guess. But we'll see what it was 100,000 bytes.

I don't know what the fuck it is. I can't remember. I honestly have not been paying attention to this for the last like three months. I don't care anymore. Okay. This story feels like 2021. J.P. Morgan. I'm not sure if you're talking about this one.

Yeah. This is a Jamie Diamond run company. They are intending to allow institutional clients, their customers, institutional only to use Bitcoin as collateral for loans. And they want this to be put in place by the end of this year of 2025. and J.P. Morgan won't hold on to the corn themselves. They plan to use a third party to do it. And they already allow Bitcoin linked ETFs as collateral. So this is going another step,

just allowing for the actual asset for these institutional clients take advantage. Remember, not too long ago, Jamie Diamond was saying that he was digging in his heels, too, against Bitcoin, that he was calling it a hyped up fraud and pet rock. And I guess now it's on par, it's matured enough because now it's on par with stocks, bonds, gold, whatever else. And they were considering doing this offering back in 2022, this type of collateral service. So it's not like this is the first time this has come out. It is the first time they're actually going to go ahead and do it. But remember in 2022 we had Luna with Voyager, we had Celsius, BlockFi, FTX.

all that happened and the rest is history and Diamond was recently quoted saying I don't think we should smoke but I defend your right to smoke I defend your rights to buy Bitcoin go right at it I like that yeah do you like that

you know what if people want to smoke go right ahead it's your fucking choice and if you want to buy Bitcoin go right ahead it's your choice if you don't want to it feels to me it feels to me I tweeted this the other day I realize this is only

I'll try and get the word institution out through these retainers. But isn't it true as well that there has to be a move toward accepting this stuff as collateral? Because people no longer have what was traditionally considered collateral, trying equity portfolios, treasury notes, real estate. You're running out of collateral? I just think they're not, they don't look at collateral the same way. People my age don't have a bunch of collateral there. But I have Bitcoin.

But you're not an institutional client. I'm not. But I'm saying like usually these things are going to trickle downhill. So I think what I'm saying is it's going to start there. And then you're going to see much like in the States right now, you have to include or banks have to include or are about to be forced to include through some legislation. Crypto net value in mortgage applications. So like all this stuff is heading this way. And I don't think it's necessarily anything to do with J.P. Morgan suddenly views this is valuable.

What I think is to protect the portfolios they have, they have to keep that flywheel going. And how do you do that? You need buyers. And if you need buyers, those buyers need collateral. And if they don't have the collateral that you're used to, then you better find some new collateral. Because otherwise, the whole thing falls apart. And I think that's what you're seeing here. And you're going to see this, you know, like I mentioned there, you're going to start with institutions. You're going to leak down to individuals over time. And I think it's going to be ultimately done land to protect the boomers. I don't see how they can say to people, you can't buy a house because you don't value your Bitcoin.

Well, if you don't value Bitcoin, then I can't get the house and the housing market has a problem. I think you're going to start seeing this more and more, I think. Look at it from a different lens. Go. It's for institutional clients only. What happens? And the fact that they're doing this now, I think there's a reason. Remember, they were talking about this back in 2022, so it was always on somebody's back burner.

These Bitcoin Treasury companies out there, some of them, in the past few months, they've been getting wrecked. Today, not so much, but if you look at it, if you zoom out over a few months period of time, absolutely wrecked. So it might be an opportunity for J.P. Morgan to offer up some level of service like this to those customers that may be starving for some capital. And in turn, if things continually go bad, it might be a way for JP Morgan to accumulate a whole bunch of Bitcoin on the cheap. If things continue the way it's going right now, you don't take much for some of these to capitulate. I don't think you're wrong. I don't think you're wrong. This isn't the same vein as the micro strategy S&P rating, right?

Like they just got a B minus S&P rating, which, I mean, there's a lot of people out there. I just saw Mark Moss tweeting like, oh, this means that trillions of dollars are unlocked. Like, that's a retard to take. trillions of dollars not unlocked, okay, Mark Moss, B minus is basically junk high yield. So they're not getting, yeah, they're not getting any new buyers at that level, at that rating. What they are getting is a door kicked open maybe for future higher ratings, but for now, like, it's really meaningless. But, but to your point, there is, I think, a change in the way that some of these companies are thinking about Bitcoin. And maybe it's, you know, would you say that what you just described there is a hair of nefarious thinking in the way that they're addressing this, right?

Like they can accumulate that Bitcoin or something goes sideways. The Treasury companies have all this Bitcoin. Yeah, maybe. But I think, you know, overall, what you have to look at is there isn't, there's a lack of pristine collateral now because people feel like real estate's not pristine anymore. They feel like gold may not be pristine. They feel like treasury bonds for sure are not pristine. So where do you go? You have to go somewhere down the list of things.

Bitcoin makes sense. I think Bitcoin is good collateral, personally. And I plan on using it as collateral at some point. I don't want to sell. It's easier to use it as collateral for other stuff. So I am happy to see this. Canada, way behind in this regard, but soon we'll not have a choice but to catch you up. Yeah, I don't think we have anything like this.

Certainly it's not involved in your mortgage calculation. That's for sure. do anything that I consider that it's remotely close and it's not offered a Canadians but lead in a Canadian based company yeah you're able to borrow against your Bitcoin and they've been offering that for can't do it here anymore can't do it here anymore yeah so are we we're way behind way behind yeah that MSTR news that's interesting I'm wondering now if they're going to take advantage of it because now given the fact that they're sitting on what like 700,000 Bitcoin I forget the number they have right now a lot a lot

yeah and so if they want to get new capital and depending on what sort of terms jp morgan is offering wouldn't mshtr then look at this and say let's do this rather here's the here's the thing that the msterr news like they they had this rating in 2024 and asked for it to be removed they wanted to they wanted to have that rating strip they were regraded whatever they got the same rating today from s and p okay so standard of pores gives you the same rating a year and a half later and everyone celebrates i think it does show the people are not paying that much attention. I was talking with fundamentals about this in their telegram chat this morning or this afternoon, I should say. It shows people not paying

attention because to get this excited about this, even though it already happened a year ago, like you're kind of giving yourself up a little bit. And like I said, the B minus grade is high yield junk, basically. So again, you're not getting any new buyers. For the people who think it's like pensions and endowments, no. Pensions and endowments are not compensations. Does that mean pensions and endowments have no high yield junk? No, it doesn't. Of course they do. They have an allocation to that because they need the yield.

But there's many vehicles you would go to first before you go there because of Bitcoin, because of sailor, because of whatever, right? There's a number of reasons why a board or an investment group would opt for another vehicle. So I don't think it's a big deal at all except to say that maybe down the road now other companies S&P who want to have their debt graded, you know, is B minus the floor now, or is it the ceiling? I don't know, but there's a lot of hype about this.

I just think, like, it doesn't matter. And actually, I was talking to SB about this before the show. He left the giant voice note about it, and that's where I got the high yield, you know, B minus being high yield junk. And if you look, you can just go on the internet and look and see what else is, like, graded higher than that. There's a lot of stuff that's higher than that.

you mean better like in terms of like yeah the grade the grade the yield and by the way the volatility right like the thing is that MSCR net will move way more on market moves than like Apple's debt will or like SB said T-Mobile debt or whatever will

right so you have these like you have these other considerations in debt markets that you want stability in debt markets you don't want you know a 20 basis point move on a Bitcoin drop. But you will get that in MSTR debt. And so I don't think you're going to see the rush to this vehicle that, you know, the sort of punter Jeffs and other people are saying that you might get.

I disagree that you're going to see that. Who's punter Jeff? Jeff Walton. He's a nice enough fella. Actually, excuse me, met him at the conference. But, you know, he's an MSTR guy and an overall Bitcoin Treasury guy. And I just think, like, you know, a lot of hype. I love the hype.

I love the enthusiasm. I'll never get mad at somebody for being enthusiastic when I think they're, you know, speaking honestly and not trying to scam people. And so I don't think he's doing that. I just think it's a little bit misplaced in this case. If you are in Bitcoin and you have been in Bitcoin for a long enough period of time, there's no way you would recommend somebody to say, you know, start buying this shit. No, I wouldn't.

Not buy, don't buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin's garbage, but this is better than Bitcoin. Yeah, I would not make that recommendation, you're correct. Yeah. I can understand if you're like just getting into Bitcoin, you're a Fia bro, and you're just getting into it, and you're like, okay, I'm going to buy it. I can, I can excuse you. I'm not going to say that it's the right call.

Right. You just don't have the right knowledge. You don't have all the knowledge. But if you've been in it long enough, like, that's why when I look at these people, these T.C. guys, BTCC, guys, which coin treasury. What's the acronym there? Bitcoin Treasury, BTC, BTC, B, I can't give them much time because you're just like you're giving the wrong information

for where you are in your Bitcoin career for the beginners yeah for the beginners I think if you if you've been in it for long enough you would just run away from this stuff but I guess the last story we'll say really quick because we're running up against an hour Mount Cox information just today that they're going to be extending the repayment and it's going to be extended up until October 31st, 2026. So if you are one of the people that were impacted by that and you are thinking maybe you get something soon, you may, because I think they're doing it in tranches, but it's going to

be done as late as October 2026. This is why you don't want to use a centralized exchange or if you are using one, you don't want to leave it on a centralized exchange because if you do that, you get Mount Coxed. The likelihood is probably very. low, but the fact that there is a likelihood makes you, at least you should consider pulling your shit

off and sleep better at night. Things have changed a lot, but the more they change, Len, the more they stay the same, you know? That's it, Joey. Let's move. Notable North. Stay here if you're on video, on Twitter, on wherever, and if you're not, then come back from all for the back half.

Don't buy into a Bitcoin treasury company.