The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Ledger Hack: Can You Still Trust Your Hardware Wallet?

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

Ledger has confirmed an unauthorized hardware implant in an affected device sold through CryptoBilis, a reseller listed by Ledger. How can a hardware wallet pass a Genuine Check while a physical implant spies on its setup? Tonight, Joey and Len examine the reported supply-chain attack, the limits of device verification, and what this does to trust in self-custody. Loss totals remain third-party estimates; the confirmed implant does not establish that every Ledger device is compromised.Also on the show: Metaplanet’s Bitcoin sell-and-rebuy, the movement of seized Bitfinex coins, Coldcard’s phishing warning, and the week’s Canadian headlines, including public-sector job losses and Ontario’s retroactive OHIP rule change.What would it take for you to trust a hardware wallet’s supply chain?Canadian Bitcoiners PodcastWebsite: https://canadianbitcoiners.comSubscribe and turn on notifications — new episodes live Monday nights.READ MORELedger’s update: https://x.com/Ledger/status/2109331538072494364Hardware implant confirmation: https://cointelegraph.com/news/ledger-confirms-unauthorized-hardware-implant-losses-may-exceed-86mOn-chain investigation: https://www.bitquery.io/investigations/ledger-cryptobilis-hackGenuine Check limits: https://www.ledger.com/academy/topics/ledgersolutions/best-practices-to-securely-buy-ledger-signerHardware implant research: https://grandideastudio.com/portfolio/security/ledger-hardware-implant/————————————————————————————————SPONSORS🔒 easyDNS — Canadian-owned domains, DNS, email and hosting from an ICANN-accredited company that has accepted Bitcoin since 2013. Use promo code CBPMEDIA for 50% off your first purchase.https://easydns.com⚡ Bull Bitcoin — Canada's non-custodial, Bitcoin-only exchange. CBP listeners get 25% off fees for life.https://app.bullbitcoin.com/registration/cbp🔥 256 Heat — Purpose-built Bitcoin miners that heat your space while producing hashrate. Tell them CBP sent you for a discount.https://256heat.com🎓 Bitcoin Mentor — One-on-one help with wallets, keys, self-custody, inheritance planning and nodes. Every package includes a 30-day money-back guarantee.https://btcmentor.io/aff/joey————————————————————————————————FOLLOW THE SHOW🎙️ CBP: https://x.com/CanadianBTCPod👤 Joey: https://x.com/joeytweeets👤 Len: https://x.com/thebtcpricebot📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/canadianbtcpod/💬 Discord: https://discord.gg/YgPJVbGCZXLISTENSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6WzoIyTowK47rcAmvrS7gtApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-canadian-bitcoiners-podcast-bitcoin-news-with/id1561002990RSS: https://anchor.fm/s/538d43f4/podcast/rss⚠️ Everything in this episode reflects personal opinions only and should not be considered financial advice.#Bitcoin #BitcoinNews #CanadianBitcoiners

Friends and enemies. Ledger, the latest hardware company. I mean, started last week with maybe just a few things sold in the Asian market, but seems to be leaking out to other markets as well. So if you have a Ledger NanoX, I think, and also I'm seeing Word that there's stacks pack as well. So lots to talk about there. And then of course, we got to talk about, I hope anyway, I didn't look at the proposed topics in full. But are we going to talk about Doug? forward wishing happy holidays to a minority diaspora instead of wishing happy Thanksgiving to Canadians, I guess we'll find out. We'll talk to you in a second. And so, you know, the government can say whatever they want about this thing not competing. It's for black market only. It's for this for that. But they're really treating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR to It'll probably get other stuff as well.

Friends and enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Leninjoie. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and Easy DNS.

The media is feeding the slop. I mean, you can't really help but laugh, right? Is that a fair assessment of what's going on here? You got the ledger guys getting hacked, the resellers. This is quite a story. I mean, we'll talk about it, obviously. but yeah, I mean, it's not a great time to be a user of one of these popular, harder wallets anyway, we'll talk about it.

What's going on? How are you doing? Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Oh, yeah. Happy Columbus Day to you as well. Thank you. Yes. I hope to be an American in the near future.

So good to get started with that. Yeah. It's a celebration for Italians. Apparently the roots of it all, they lynched a bunch. I think there's 12 or so Italians in New Orleans. What? Yeah. Our people.

Oh, no. That's the root of this. From what I was reading, I don't know if it's true or not. So the president at the time decided, you know what? We have to honor them somehow. And yeah, that's a lot of Columbus Day. That's how it all started. I love it.

That's great. That's great. Yeah, it was a good Thanksgiving yesterday. Saw a lot of people. I'm having a ton of fun bringing my daughter around to different family events now. She's electric in a crowd. It's a good age. It's a good age.

So we will have a lot to talk about tonight, obviously, as I said. But first, the sponsors. Sponsors. Easy DNS is the best place. for you to do anything related to domain registration. Okay? What's what I mean by that? I mean, you can buy a domain.

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You just have fun issuing commands like the thing was working. working for you. We like that. And not to mention, of course, Len, he's been in the game for a long time taking Bitcoin. So if you want to pay in BTC, he can take it from you. And there's no better place to spend it than easy DNS. Plus, don't forget 50% off your first cart if you use our promo code CBP Media. No limits on that, by the way. Mark has clients all over the world. Some love and some we do not, as we just found out. But all the same. Go there and show your support for the show. And show you support for Mark as well. Who's the second sponsor of the program? Before we go into it, it just goes to show you the friends and enemies. This is a show for friends and enemies. It really is. Well, Bitcoin, definitely not an enemy because they are here to sell you some Bitcoin.

And they'll buy your Bitcoin if you want to do as well. You can do it on chain. You can do Lightning. A lot of different options over there. But like I said, this is a place to buy. This is the place to sell Bitcoin. They are not custodial. You don't want to deal with anybody holding on to your keys.

We'll talk about that later in a show. you do not want anybody to do that. In order to facilitate a buy, you have to provide a Bitcoin address. Doesn't have to be yours. It doesn't be legitimate, but that's what has to happen. You've got to provide an address to do the buy. You could pay your bills with your Bitcoin using your bill service. So if you have to pay credit card or if they pay car payment, whatever it may be, you could use your Bitcoin.

Now, I'm not sure what the price is 80-something thousand USD. And you can use that to buy or pay your bills using their bill service. So check them out. They are obviously the best in the game ever expanding right now in Canada, Western Europe, Latin America, and soon who the heck knows where it's going to be? Maybe landing on your doorstep.

If you aren't yet a customer, them, what are you waiting for? Use our code below to sign up and all your buys and sales forever will be cheaper, so check them out. A big thank you to those watching on YouTube. Please leave a like on the video, throw a comment in the comment area there.

We'll try and get to all the comments during the show as best we can. Throw some chairs, get mad. Like my friend Nathan likes to say on Bitcast, We are in it to win it, and we're going to be here for the next hour and a half giving you, I mean, there's going to be a lot of news. I was going to say all the best Bitcoin news, but really, it's probably mostly the worst Bitcoin news. It's news, right? It's news.

We are impartial vendors of information day to day. Kate, do we have any boosts? You want to do some boosts? Yeah, we've got three notable ones that I want to bring up. Rev Hoddle does a couple at 420 sats, and the first of the two read, start. I started actively listening to this podcast a little while ago, and now it's solidly in my 40 hours per week. I love the raw elevated energy. It's genuine. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So the 40 hours per week, are you doing your 40 hours per week, Joey? I'm grinding pretty hard. I have recently, actually, to make an announcement here, I have elevated. I've, maybe elevated is not even strong enough word. I've ascended to the 1.3x speed podcast listener group.

I was a 1.1 guy for a long time. Then I became 1.2 guy. And now I am a 1.3 guy. So I am listening to a lot of stuff and I'm listening to it very quickly. I want to hear what you 40 hours per week are listening to your shows. Is it greater or less than 1.3? If it's greater, let us know it two times, four times. What do we sound like at 1.3?

I wonder. I have no idea. You should just tune in for a second and listen. I guess same whatever. Rev Hoddle again 420 sats He writes in the proof of 40 hours per week Only on sorry on only boosts dot social Only boost dot social

Is that is that a website where you can see who's boosting? I'll tell you who's in my 40 HPW right now Since I haven't done a plug for 40 HPW in a long time I have the bugle of course I have playable characters from band and gentilly TFTC I still listen to If I go down my list here I have magic internet math

from fundamentals. I obviously have Rabbit Hole Recap, though. It's basically been defunct for a time because Odell's not doing it as far as I know. I also have the fundamentals of fundamentals. I'm too far into Brian's podcast Rabbit Hill here. I do the hurdle rate

and on the brink. People may not like those ones, but I don't care. Rock paper, Bitcoin, obviously. Sound coffee, Bitcoin Fish. Again, more shit from Brian there. 49th parallel from our guy's Boomer and Business Cat, which is on a bit of a break right now, I think. And also I have a couple here

that I love, but don't often put it up. So it's block reward, the reorg, and noted from obviously Bittstein and Pierre, although I think they're probably done with that stream if I had to guess. So I listen to a lot, man, but I'm fine for my mental well-being, it is best for me to switch over to sports ball podcasts for the fall. And so generally I do that. And I switch my, we'll call it like economics slash Bitcoin slash news consumption to mostly reading as opposed to the podcast thing. And I will stick with that for most of the fall.

Because most of the time, I don't know about you, but like if I'm lifting weights, I can't listen to a podcast. I got to be like listening to something fast, hard, like mob deep or G unit or something like, you know, that goes a little harder than like macro voices, whatever. So I move that to reading. And I find that my retention for information is a lot better when I do that. So advice for life there. If you're still on a podcast.

Cat 3.333.3s. And he writes in, my wife has been playing a ton of that new dressmaker game on Steam with my daughter sitting giving style advice. They both love it. I'm getting ready to try out the wow forever next month. Luke, I am not a wow guy, but in my circle of friends, we are big on Diablo II resurrected. Like I was, I'm an 87 baby.

And so I was like 15 when Diablo 2 really hit. And so I basically had like for five years on weekends instead of chasing girls, I was either playing basketball, I was playing rep basketball all the time, playing Diablo or playing age vampire. And now the same group of guys who I've been friends with for, you know, I've been friends with for, you know, 38 years, 39 years, however old I am. We have been playing a lot of Arc Raiders for the last little while. And our graders is- I haven't heard that name in a long time.

Arc Raiders is probably the best game in the last five years. I stand by that. You were talking up a storm for that game for some time. And it's great. Literally, what has it been three, four months since you mentioned those words in my presence? Maybe. Yeah. But I was just, I was laughing to myself the other day because an update for it came out.

And I was like, you know, looking at my sort of hub on my PlayStation. And those games are rotating through all the time. Arc Raiders never has never left. It's always there. And when I want to pick up and play something for 15 or 20 minutes, like that's my go-to. So we've been in Arc Raiders and that same group of guys did not play World of Warcraft. But now we're all kind of thinking we might pick it up when it comes out next fall or next month, I should say. The only downside is you're competing exactly with GTS.

It's not just, yeah, it's not just the release of a Madden or release of this. This is, you know, I hope. I mean, if you're talking about it every week on this show, then it must be big. Because you're talking about it all the time on CBP. Oh, no, off the line, I talk about it quite a bit because it's just such a big release. And the hype is off the charts. Will they deliver? Who knows, Joey, because the way things are going with the video game industry, they are changing.

Pirating. I love it. I love the. It's not the pirating. I love that. stuff, though. It's the development of the games and who's behind it and the type of stories, narrative they want to push. That too. I just do, I hope that does not bleed in. Did you, did you see that Queers of War? I mean, Gears of War came out a couple of weeks ago,

and it's a, I think male to female, I don't know what you call them. I'm just going to call her trans, her him trans. I don't know what I'm supposed to be saying here, but like, I just look at that and I think, to your point, these video game companies have lost the plot. Like, no one who's buying gears of war to slaughter alien hordes. Quite literally the name of one of the game modes is hordes where he just kills as many of these things possibly can't. Like zombies, I think.

Who wants to hear like that kind of thing in their gory, you know, over the shoulder shooter? I don't know anyone who wants that. So, yeah. I can't say a thing. I've never played a gears

and it's just every day I turn on a machine that sitting there waiting for me to play, but it never gets touched. Yeah. And you know what? Are you thinking that there's going to be issues with Rockstar, Sony, whatever, and these compilers and decompilers for the PlayStation software that's coming out now? You've obviously been keeping up with this, I think, right?

Like Sony tried to tell people that they couldn't run PS2 and PS3 disks on their consoles because the architecture was just too different from those systems, turned out to be a lie. They told them that they couldn't run stuff like Red Dead Redemption at 60 frames or 100. 20 frames because it just was too much, you know, horsepower, not enough horsepower in the PS5 to do that. Turns out that was a lie. And now they're trying to say that to play, to play GTA 6, you'll have to update to a firmware yet to be released. So they're releasing a new firmware near the release day of GTA 6 with the hope that they keep the jailbreakers out on day one. But it's only a matter of time. Is it not? Like this is a night, this has to be a nightmare

for the big, the big manufacturers, right? The big software. Yeah. Well, how many people want to play this and want to play online in a seamless. And so to do that, you're probably, at least from the get-go, buy the game. Yeah. But just the way things are going, they'll eventually crack that, have servers that are dedicated specifically for a, you're playing it on your computer, for instance, and like a pirated version of your computer and still be able to play online. So I don't know.

This might be the last generation of consoles we're going to see come out from a lot of these. Well, did you see, this is like unrelated to the show, we're in the weeds here a little bit. Did you see Nvidia is halting production of the 5090 graphics card? They have no plans to release a 60 series card to retail, and they're moving into data center chips now, basically exclusively. So if you don't have a 50 series card, you're probably not going to be able to get one. You think the prices are high now?

Wait another two months. They're going to be through the roof. People will be selling those things like they're going extinct, and they are. I'm using it to play 94, so I'm pushing it to its utmost limits. It's bad in chopping up videos of that. Imagine. Perfect. That's what we want to say.

5060 to play a 32-year-old 16-bit game. That's what's being done. Anyways, Joey, let's dive deep. Yes. The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is the Canadian Bitcoiners. We should do some video games on this side one day. Ledger, do you want to talk about Ledger? Is that the big story?

That's the lead story. I mean, it's huge. There's basically the issue is that there's a couple of resellers in Europe who are having who are having issues with tampering. Now, I'm saying they're having issues because it's not been confirmed that those resaleers are participating in the tampering, but I'll give you a couple of data points

and you tell me what you think. So the original retailer that was having issue was like a... Bitcoin or something like that, Cryptobilis, yeah. And the reason that this is an interesting ground zero for the hardware manipulation, which we'll talk about in a sec,

is because this company was purchased recently, traded hands to a Chinese national, yeah, in March. And as part of that sale, the purchaser told this guy that you have to sign an ND8 and not share that we bought your outfit here. And so as part of that transaction, obviously somewhere between then and now, they've had trouble keeping these hardware devices under wraps, literally and figuratively, right? You're talking about breaking these heat seals and having people change. the internals of the device. The best part about this from the perspective

of the hacker, obviously, or from the manipulating party, is that these things still pass the ledger, you know, this device is official, check,

because what they're doing, yeah, what they're doing is they're scanning the screen. They're not getting in between the secure element and the input. So they're just looking

at what comes on to the screen and then pinging some other server somewhere with not only your keys, But if you put a passphrase in a device, the pass phrase too, which is crazy. And the interesting thing, too, to consider this is if it's only the ledger nanoX, which so far seems to be the most accepted state of affairs, that's one thing. But now people are starting to say that the ledger stacks is also having trouble.

Now, the reason it's interesting that the stacks is having trouble and the nanoX is having trouble is because these things are different in one key. in one key way. And that key way is that the stacks has persistent power. It's got a battery inside. So let's say you had one of these nano devices. You would at least have to power it up to be able to fire up that 4G chip, to be able to fire up the screen scanner, all that stuff. But if you had a battery in the device already,

it wouldn't even need to wait. You would just bring that thing home. It would ping when you set it up or whatever they have it set up to do and then send, you know, send to the mothership all the information about your holdings, your seed phrase, potentially also your passphrase, potentially also your recovery information, which includes, by the way, stuff like your email and your ID and your government name. Like, I don't know exactly how the Stacks recover thing works, but you got to figure it's more than just like a QR code or whatever.

And so, like, this is an interesting moment for Bitcoin because I think that, that there's at least some possibility that these attacks will continue. And I'm going to, you know, maybe say something a little unpopular now, maybe not for this audience, but certainly in shared company. You know, I am waiting to see how many of these countries where there's an overwhelming number of third world people adjacent to production lines, adjacent to delivery lines, adjacent to resaleers, adjacent to last mile delivery. Where are the gaps? in the security. My guess is it's going to be consistently with those people. And if I look at the story so far, it seems to me like this is already taking shape. You can go look at that for yourself.

Don't take my word for it. We'll keep an eye on this over the next few days to see where the stocks thing lands. And if there winds up being problems with stuff shipped from the U.S., which seems to be so far the only safe haven for these things, if you believe that the European resale is not having trouble too. Now, I'll leave you with one more thing. And then I'll get your take because I'm sure that we have some disagreement on this whole thing. There is no safe way to order hardware wallet in 26. There's no safe way. You know, on Access of Easy, the other show we do for Mark and Easy DNS,

we talk a lot about how every week, basically, for the last four years, there has been data honeypots everywhere from car dealerships to hospitals, to banks, to French government agencies, to Canadian government agencies, to universities, high schools, elementary schools, you name it. Your address and your name next to it is out there somewhere. That's for sure. Now, the question you have to answer is, what do you do about it? I think you're getting to the point now where you have to,

if you're ordering something that's related to hardware for Bitcoin, you have to do one of two things. One, we talk about on the show all the time. Never keep it at your house. I believe this to be a fundamental, no room. for wiggling around on this, truth of Bitcoin custody in 26.

The other thing, Len, is that I get the feeling a lot of people are going to start using PO boxes. I know in Canada, they do like the flex ship thing if you're using Canada Post. You don't want people coming to your house.

If there's any inkling, they could be toting Bitcoin or crypto related hardware, ever, ever, because there's just no way that it's safe. Not now. It probably has never.

ever been, but it is certainly not safe now. There was one commonality between this and the cold card incident. Is that when the cold card news came out late July, the price of Bitcoin didn't react. Also, the amount of transactions in the mempool didn't increase. Same time with this. The price did react slightly, but you would expect it to be a little bit more. if this is the biggest name in the hardware. Far and away, the most units sold.

Yep. Right. And so when you hear that there is a supply chain attack that's impacting some of their devices, granted, it's not all Bitcoiners using it. You have a fair number of shitcoiners using it. But still, the price of Bitcoin didn't really move. The amount of transactions in the Mampool didn't really increase. So either people are reacting and everything is able.

to be absorbed within the current marketplace in terms of the price and also the mempool or people are just standing pat and just waiting for something to happen. That probably isn't the good way of doing it if you're one of the impacted people. But let's be honest, if you bought a device, I'm not a ledger guy. I joke that this is my ledger here, but this is actually just a regular old USB key that I have. I had a ledger at one time. I broke it purposely. Yeah.

Because I didn't like it. If you bought one of these devices, is a ledger device or even a cold card or whatever maybe a long time ago, the likelihood of that having a LT chip installed and a five-past. Very low. Correct. So sitting on a, this is an old, I still an open cold card. An old card.

Yeah, old card. I have faith, if I set this one up correctly, which I'm not. Anti-tamper bag, man, anti-tamper bag, the clear case. And the same thing with if I had an old ledger sitting. here. I could look at it and say, you know what, it probably isn't impacted. You can't say the whole, the whole amount of items that they're selling is tainted, but I wouldn't use it to begin with for a variety of different reasons. Like, we have to go back. Remember, we had in 2023 their Connect Kit software was compromised,

and that was through a former employee's MPM account and it drained a lot of people's DFI. I know it's DFI, but still in 2020, we had a database leak in the e-commerce league. that it lead it to a whole bunch of $5 redge attack. And no one learned from that either. Like how many other sort of client slash contractor leaks have been for all these companies? Trezor just had one, you know,

three months ago, whatever that was. And they were forgiven. Because people continually go out to buy stuff from them and add their their name. They're viewed as posting class land. Like that's all there is to it. I don't know why, but they are. We've come to a point where the D.Y solution is likely the best way to do

things. Either you're going to do something. like a seed signer or are you going to use an old laptop or maybe an old phone, whatever it may be, but whatever path you choose, make sure it is secure because you can easily fuck up and have your Bitcoin wipes somehow if you just don't do it right. For sure. Whatever right is, you have to fill in the blanks. So what I'm trying to get at is these custom created seed signer or these custom created

signing devices, we should. Start pushing them aside, not push them as an option for people to use, at least not recommend them, but of course do your own research. Because in the end, I think you're just going to get wrecked. And this is just another reason. Like the people in, who was it? Malaysia, Philippines. And, oh, man, I forget.

There's three companies in Indonesia. Now we just got word that in Europe, the media market guys, they may be impacted because somebody purchases the guy named Johannes, have purchased a device and from the media market location in Europe. And yeah, it looks like that is suffering through the same type of attack that it was in Asia where somebody was able to open it to put in their own hardware that would send, as you mentioned, information back to the mothership. And that is scary stuff.

And this is just, and this is such a simple way to do it. It's just it's ingenious that they were, I can't believe that I'm even giving them kudos, but it's just an ingenious way to do it because the amount of effort involved is rather limited. You don't have to go to somebody's house to get their Bitcoin. It's all done electronically. And if somebody is able, if somebody posted on X, a joke, if you want to get free self-service, just buy one of these devices open up. It's crazy.

That is nuts. Yeah. That's actually pretty good. But these guys are probably buying those e-sims through. Bitcoin. We talked about a service a few weeks ago. And I fuck, I forget the name of it. There's a bunch of them out there, though. It's a bunch of them out there. And so it's easy to do. It's easy to implement.

You just have to have the right people behind this. And it's not just simply the third world. As you mentioned, Joey, I'm not sure where you rank France in terms of the global index. Is it a first world third? I would say it's a first world country. It's encroaching old machine gun, though. Thanks to all the students and doctors and engineers burning down buildings. It's got a ways to go, in my opinion. I always say it's a first world country, and we had their people on the inside

in the tax office selling information to criminal organizations. If that could happen there, I think bad apples are everywhere, Joey. It doesn't have to be in third world. It could be first world. You just have to find the right person. In fact, we'll talk about a story

on a notable stories about a Toronto cop. So this happens, right? This shit happens everywhere. What do you do? If you are going to subject yourself to buying one of the, these things. Make sure you use a P.O. Box or some way to hide your track. Get it shipped to Lentos. If you DM me, 100,000 sats, I'll give you his address and you can ship

it there and you can pick it up. And I'll be happy to drive it out to you. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Anywhere in North America, I will drive. I'll even go to fucking as far away as California, right? So use a PEO box or something. If you're going to do it like this is a cold card, inspect the package, look to see if the thing was open shit like that. I have a cold card up here. I was looking for, after the cold card hack, I bought a bunch of hardware wallets. I don't know where the ledger one ended up, but I wanted to see like what the, what the mechanism to open it look like. Like, can you just pry it open with a, you know, paperclip or do you need like a, you know, like a little wedge? The thing I, the thing I still can't figure out is most people who buy hardware devices, you've got to think

they're at least sophisticated enough enough to hold the device and be like, hey, wait a minute. Like, this doesn't feel right, you know? But if you have nothing to compare to? Well, I mean, it's not, it's not about that. It's like, it's like if you've ever held a cell phone, okay? Let's see you've held a cell phone in your life, an iPhone or an Android phone. If someone has resealed the phone, I would guess that most people would realize that the phone had been open and recently. You don't think so. You're shaking your head. I don't. I don't know.

Without having an example of a pristine model to compare to, I don't know if people, you'll have a fair number of people. I don't say fair enough. You'll have some people say, yeah, this looks like something's, but you know what? If the majority of people just let it go, as an attacker. Yeah, maybe. That's, it's a win. Because this is essentially, it's a numbers game. You're trying to get as many people as possible to get subjected to this, right? So, you know, I look at that and it's like, it sucks. It really sucks for them. It does suck.

And you know what? It just goes to show you. This isn't just impacting. It's not truly a Bitcoin story because it's Ledger, for all its faults, it's, like, it's fucking, it's, it is a lot of shit coins on there. And that's quite a false for them. Yeah. So in fact, we had USDT, I believe they froze $10 million dollars worth of that once they were alerted. That centralized service was.

able to do that. But the other ones, I can't believe they didn't do it. Like, there was some Eth that was stolen. Why didn't if I tell us say, guys, stop trading. Let's let's fucking freeze their shit and do that. He probably has the authority to do it. But yeah, it's just, it's not just truly a Bitcoin story.

This is just, it's a broader one. It impacts the shit coin market as well. I have no idea how this impacted the shit coin price or if there's a mempools that over there that get filled. I have no idea. I don't know either. I have no idea. The less I know the better. But this is just more proof into putting that you have to build your own device.

And you got to do doing stuff yourself, trusting yourself more than trusting a company or trusting somebody else. This is the way to do things. It's not just simply for Bitcoin, but it's for just life in general. What do you make of these people who are saying that the best hardware device for Bitcoin is something like an iPhone in lockdown mode or Android equivalent, as opposed to like a crypto or Bitcoin-specific hardware device. I'm seeing this more and more. Yeah, I hear that. And I have read a lot of posts about that.

I haven't gone down that rabbit hole to say, I know for sure. The one I've seen a lot is an old laptop where you just simply open up, pry out the Wi-Fi and, you know, just physically disabled the Ethernet cable, the Ethernet port and away you go. So that's, you know, I like that. Just the way my dad used to physically disable my Super Nintendo after a bad report card, right? And same style. How do you do that? Just take away the power. Slime with a hammer or something.

I don't know. Those things are worthwhile. I mean, you get them a cash conversion for 50 bucks back then. No, yeah. But nowadays, it's worth a lot more. Oh, big time. Yeah. Listen, I'm with you.

Maybe one last question. Where do you think Ledger, where is their responsibility when a reseller, where is their responsibility when a reseller changes hands. What should they do? Excellent question. Should they vet every reseller as they change hands when they change hands?

Is there something in their agreement they have with the reseller? This is the missing documentation in my view. What is their SOP for this? I want to know. They probably miss that. Yeah, it's an easy thing, right?

That's why against all, against all my sensibilities here, I still think, you know, I still want to blame Ledger for this at the core of things because that's an easy thing they should be doing and they're not doing it. They're the biggest hardware manufacturer.

They're worth a billion dollars, you know, whatever this company's worth. I think this is something they should do and they're not doing it, clearly. And this is the case for like basically any major industry would do this, right? If you have a McDonald's franchise change hands or something, corporate gets to say, corporate wants to look at it. And I think if you're selling something like a hardware wallet this day and age, right, it's not 2017 anymore, it's not 2018 anymore. I think that corporate should be able to say, yeah, we're going to put all the resales on hold

until we vet your operation, your staff, your ownership, your board, whatever. And this bullshit about the non-disclosure agreement, like, that's a red flag. Are you telling me that no one at this agency, this company, this outfit was like, huh, how would they make me sign that? I realize there's like some brand protection maybe. You don't want to scare customers away as soon as a purchase is. is completed, but seems to me this could have been

fairly simply avoided, even with all the other cunning that these guys clearly had. And maybe one last thing. That's the ledger problem. Yeah, it is, it is a ledger problem.

It's not the, it's not the company problem that sold it because it could do it. Absolutely. Absolutely not. That guy's living his life. You know, like what else does he have to worry about?

When he sells, he sells the company, you know, it might have raised the red flag for him, but what's he going to do? He doesn't have to report up the chain anyone. It's his outfit.

Last thing. where, like, how is it possible? Maybe this is wrong way to phrase it. We talk a lot about KYC stuff these days. We talk about it in Bitcoin, obviously, in terms of like purchases and all that. How long is it until, you know, big purchases of these like tiny, tiny 4G chips are reviewed, KYC'd, AML, whatever, before they're able to be purchased? It seems to me like this is another kind of failure of the system. They're KY seeing all the wrong things in the modern world, right?

This would have been an easy thing to look at and say, why do you need all these? Like, what are you doing with this stuff? You know? How about at an ATM? Yeah, yeah. Where they could easily set up a video. Happens all the time. You're probably driving your car to the place to buy it.

They probably have something on the outside. They have your license plate. So you have their picture of you. They have a license plate. And they figure out how much you purchased or at that one particular look. So like there's, you know, it gets to be really scary in terms of that. So what's the best option? Just buy an ETF, right?

Yeah, man. That ain't the best option. Obviously it's still buying cold hard Bitcoin. That's the way to do things. Ah, cold card. We should talk about that because they got another black eye. What a mess. This is just so, it's embarrassing at this point, honestly.

There's another, another day for Coin Kite because their official cold card X account, They posted a tweet or I guess an ex post And it looked like it was an urgent security alert And this happened just this past weekend And the post was there briefly before it was taken down While it was up It said there was a critical firmware vulnerability affecting seed generation on MK4, MK5s and Qs

And they directed users to go to a website Which was a fishing website Given the context of what's happened with cold card for the past three months, ish, two and a half months. It's not out of the realm to have seen a post like this, a legitimate post like this. So how many people clicked

on it and followed instructions and got owned as a result? It remains to be seen. I'm dying to know. I'm dying to know. So, I don't know. Coin Kite says this post did not come from any Koyn Kite personnel. And Koykite, they did an

investigation and they said they found no corresponding login session or access records. The account has an offline two-factor authentication with tightly restricted access since 2017. It's so bad.

It's not tight enough. Read the tweet. Did you see what he's, what is he suggesting in the tweet? Yes. One of the things that is, they got, they're getting in tough with X support.

They got to, they're got in touch with them first and they're like, they're, it looks like they're saber rattling. and maybe locking horns. They're accusing X of an inside job that potentially there is the possibility

of a platform level or administration access that was granted. They're also hinting that X administrative access is being sold on dark net markets. And you're saying that not directly, but they're hinting at it that this is probably what happened here. X or somebody inside X or somebody that sold, that sold shit from X was the reason for this.

Ah, so this I find to be funny. Remember, we just came off of a whole bunch of Bitcoin that was wiped from cold cards because they had the entropy that was terrible. I forget the exact number of bits it was. It could have been the lowest 30, but whatever the fuck it was, people with AI, they were able to dedicate enough resources

to hack this steal Bitcoin. these guys are still in damage control mode. They lost a very good employee who departed. I don't want to talk much about that. There we go. It's not like it's a secret. He left. I know, but I don't want to get into it.

I just, that's all I'm going to say. And on top of all this, even with this recent news from, you know, X, they fucked up. X to me have fucked up, but I don't think so. NVK's telegram account was compromised. and you're posting a scam link in the telegram chat. This from a guy who has talked very highly about his security. Apple products are the best in the game and they're secure and blah, blah, blah. You know what?

Things are only, the chain is only as strong as this weakest link. You could, you know, if you don't practice good security hygiene, you have nobody else to blame but yourself. Look in the mirror. The guy looking back at you is a problem. Too bad. So sad. It's just another black guy, another day for it, a coin cart people.

Interesting stuff. I mean, I don't really have a comment on this because what can we say about these guys that hasn't already been said? They are tweeting out on the day that ledger gets hacked, okay, about how important it is to have a clear case on the hardware device. Because it's not just a decoration. It lets you look at what's inside. Has there been tampering? Has there been anything added? Has there been anything removed?

This is the first time someone's opened it, blah, blah, blah. They jump at every opportunity to try and put a little lipstick on the pig, okay? And still, even in the midst of this security nightmare that is now almost four months old, they still haven't figured out security. They're still getting got by some, you know, by the sounds of it probably low. low level hacker or whatever. And blaming X. This guy thinks that

ex-admin people are using their access to run scams on the coin kite or cold card account. Come on. They could move market with the SEC.

They could go with the SEC, send out a tweak. No, this is way more. This is way more important. Yeah, I know. I'm going to go after that, you know, that's coin kite company. I just can't believe. it. It's fucking insane.

You know, you could do a tweet from Elon Musk saying that I'm going to sell all my shares in SpaceX and it would fucking tank, right? And then immediately, you know, it's buying it when it's, you can do all these crazy things, but no, I'm going to do this one. This is the one I'm going to fucking think. Dude, I love this. It does not make sense. It doesn't. It never gets old these guys. I can't wait. I mean, invariably, something is going to have to change here over the next few months for them because right now, whatever business model they think they have is not working. They're not selling hardware. I know they're tweeting like nothing happened, but like something did happen.

You can't just keep tweeting like that. People are going to nuke you in the comments over and over again. Something's got to change. And I think it's part of that change. Eventually, NVK is going to have to do like some kind of public appearance of video, some audio, like something. And I am waiting for the response from the Bitcoin faithful about this. Because that's got to happen.

What other thing can he do? The tweets don't work. You're at the point now where you've become like, you know, paranoid schizophrenic about X admin access. You lost D who, you know, you can say whatever you want about. He worked for coin kite. He's part of the scam. No, he's not.

Okay. Number one, he's a friend of mine. I know him well. Like, you know, he was torn up as much or more than anybody when this thing happened. And like, you have, you have very few men at your disposal at this point if you're coin kite. I don't know what you do. Right? He's refusing to throw in a towel. It may or may not be one.

I guess the second at the top. Oh, hex, whatever, Doc Hex. I don't know. There's questions if it's. TBD. I have no idea. But I'll just say this. Like, you know, great generals with no men left, Len, don't have a great track record.

And, you know, like, that's where we are now with these guys. And I see all caps in the chat saying like the pig is dead, make some bacon. They don't think so, dude. They obviously don't think so. They think there's more, you know, more mileage on the tread. I don't know. Maybe there is. If you're in their shoes, you're not going to close shop immediately once this thing happens.

They should close shop. But like I'm trying to say, if you were in their position, you're still going to try to get as much out of this as possible. Who does it mean? I see all cap saying mea culpa, but like what does it maya culpa look like at this point? The trench is 100 feet deep and, you know, growing at this point. The people who are still working there refuse to put the shovel. down, the dunking on ledger and then having your telegram hacked and your Twitter account hacked. Like, it's never ending.

These, there's no understanding. They don't understand the environment now. And I realized that like I may not be acting rationally either if I was them. But I don't know. Like, it's just, it's ugly, man. It is ugly. And, you know, who knows what the legal side of things looks like over there. Like, are they, are they being litigated against?

Are they litigating against other people? Are they, I have no idea. Do you think their terms of sales indicates somewhere in there? They must have. Oh, no way. You don't think they've said in there, they said any sort of loss of funds is the responsibility of the buyer. I owe that.

Oh, God, probably. I don't know. You can ask the clanker. Let's see. They must have put it on there, which then basically washes their hands of this whole fucking thing, which is unfortunate. But think of all the people, including us. We were pushing this to be used because I'll be honest.

I'm going to, you know, full disclosure. I haven't moved my Bitcoin off my gold card. You don't have to. If you roll dice, you don't have to like you're fine. I still have faith in the device not fucking me over. Yeah. So that's where I stand. I'm not trying to push for it.

I'm just saying this is where I stand. Everybody could do it. That's you personally. If you're a dice enjoy, you have nothing to worry about. But if you weren't, I think so. Yeah. I think so. But I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to push anybody to do this.

just an FYI. But what I'm trying to get it is that that being said, a lot of people were pushing for these devices. And that's where the bulk of their sales come. It's not like you went to a J's game or Raptors game. You saw a banner by cold card from Coin Kite. You never saw that there. It essentially was being pushed by people in the Bitcoin community like us,

like other people similar to us. And when you lose that, then what sort of sales are they going to get moving forward? It's going to be minimal at best. which means that what futures do this company have? I don't think they have a long ramp here that they could land. Obviously not. Obviously not.

That landing strip is very, very small. So they got to, you know, in their eyes, like if I was in their position, I would do the same thing. But just I'm looking at everything. I'm just taking all the information. It's like they're screwed. And the majority of their revenue must have come from selling these devices like the Q and a cold card. They made some selling open dimes and I figure what the card is. called the open, I forget the fuck it's called.

But what are... Sats card. Those things. Sass card. There you go. You know, they probably made up 5, 10% of their overall revenue. I'm just hypothesizing here. I can be way off. But when you lose a big chunk of sales, what sort of future they have.

Good luck to them moving forward. If they're around in two years' time, I'll be a little bit surprised, to be honest. So section 18 of their terms of sale, liability cap. Their aggregate liability is limited to direct damages, quote, not to exceed the purchase price we have received

for such products, excluding shipping and taxes. They also exclude consequential indirect and other listed damages. Then maybe the last part here that's important is they do not guarantee that products will always be secure or operate without errors. That's from Section 16. That's the one today. I would like to see during the time of the cold card mark three if they had similar wording. They probably did. I'm almost positive they did. But if they didn't for whatever reason, then maybe, I mean, I'm not a legal expert, so it could be wrong, but one purchased an item and it had a terms of service that didn't have it. I think it did. But if it didn't have it, then maybe they have legal action. They could. I'm going to look it up right now. What are you going to be trying to squeeze blood from a stone, right? Yeah, I mean, that's another story entirely. Yeah. I have some, you know, some commentary on that, but I'm not going to share it on the air that. I mean, they're toast for any rational person, but rationality doesn't seem to be. you know, something that's in excess over there at the moment. So what can you say, really?

I wish everyone over there luck. I don't, you know, wish ill will on people, but it's making it much, much harder. As time goes on, to be sympathetic to anybody involved in that company at this time. Does everybody, sorry, do you know everybody within your inner circle that just left Ledger or, that's not Ledger, Coin Kite, or do they still use it? Is that curious? I don't. I don't know.

Yours truly. Yeah, I don't know if anyone has left that stuff behind or not, but I know for a fact that anyone I set up, I mean, this is something we talked about already. So maybe I don't want to repeat too much here. But the thing is that when we told people how to set this thing up, we always advocated for dice rolls. It wasn't a make or break thing, but we always advocated for it. I feel good about that.

And the people that I set up with cold cards, yeah, we rolled dice, you know. it's a fun part of the process or was anyways. And, you know, Fundamental says this, says this all the time. And he was right. He's sort of being proven right as time goes on. Everyone said that rolling dice was the hard thing when this thing happened. Like, you can't expect people to roll 100 dice, guys like American Hoddle and others. But, man, I got to say, I think fundamentals saying that this is really the 80 IQ way to do things.

He's right. You know, rolling dice is not that hard, but this other shit. Like, you know, you're worried about Wi-Fi and 4G check. tips and your hardware devices now, how do you, you can't, the average person is not going to open up their hardware device. I'm not going to weigh it with a fucking cocaine scale,

which is the sort of precision you need to figure out what the weight is supposed to be. Like, you know, it's not. I built a room with a Faraday cage and that's how you do everything now inside that. So a quick note here, quick note here on the liability and legal. It's all the same now as it was in 2025.

So no change. I think, I'm not a legal expert, but it seems like it's airtight and so anybody trying to sue them wish them luck what round do you have the stand on I don't know

maybe somebody will find to be creative at GGs in reality so there you go there's a brutal story in X I should have brought this up during our discussion on the ledger but some dude on X was talking about

they noticed that $5 million of Bitcoin was purchased a few months ago and that was at the time when Bitcoin was around 60 the low 60s. And so that translated to about 80 Bitcoin that somebody purchased. And then what they did, they bought a ledger at Cryptobillis.

They posited all 80 Bitcoin into it. Good work. And since then the Bitcoin price has pumped a little bit. And so the valuation has gone up, you know, it's around 6.5 million USD, give or take. So that's just, it's a sad story. You're going to hear a lot of stories like this. And so this is just one dude lost 80 Bitcoin from just unfortunately trusting a device from a supposedly trusting reseller of, man, that is sad. Can't win.

How do you recover that? Clearly this person has means to just pick up on a whim by $5 million worth of Bitcoin. But man, it's got a sting, man, regardless. Even if I lost like 0.5 or 0.25, even like 500 stats, I'd be pissed. My quest to 0.1 Bitcoin is still ongoing. Your retirement is intact. That's right. I'm trying to get there.

This is fucking totally surely. One day I got there. Oh, God. Okay, this roots patch came across on my X-Feed. I never heard of this before. And this patch is the brainchild of Jeremiah. Jareil. I don't know.

Anyways, he's a scientific director at Plan B Foundation in Lugano. And the patch is something which anybody could review, and it applies to Bitcoin Core. So you have Bitcoin Core and you can apply it as patch to it. And what it does, it still keeps consensus with the network. So you're not fucking up with that respect. But it gives you the ability to apply some of the policies that were implemented in Bitcoin Nots before that went on its merry way. So you have now the ability to apply stricter filtering of unconfirmed transactions.

You could apply finer controls to operands, for instance. And so it's interesting stuff. So if you want to check it out, it's on plan dash B dot foundation slash Bitcoin dash roots. Love it. Check it out. I like that. I like optionality. I like people to do something.

You're not fucking things around. It's not like it's, you know, you're not going to fork yourself. It's still with consensus with the current Bitcoin protocol. Yeah. we like to see stuff like this. This is the obvious, not obvious, but if you're looking to prevent quote unquote spam in your operetta and whatever,

like you don't start a fork, you do something like this. This is like an easier and much more intuitive, much more agreeable way to handle this. Now, all caps is saying that ledger, ledger doesn't let you ship to a peel box in Canada.

Yeah, terrible stuff. It's psycho. Is it because, why? Because they probably want like a signature or something. Are they like, I don't know.

You could buy it from. Best Buy, but you're going to trust buying it from Best Buy. It's not that I don't trust Best Buy, but the question is like, at what point do you stop trusting them, right? Anyway, you're going to Best Buy. Everyone sees the delivery drivers. They see the guys working there. Like, everyone is either stupid high or some combination of the two when you go to Best Buy. I went to Best Buy a little while ago to pick up a computer monitor that I bought online.

I just went to pick it up. It took like 45 minutes for them to find that they didn't have the monitor that I bought and replace them something else. Pre-ordered it? Like, you'll go to pick. Yeah. Like, they're retarded over there. If you think they're going to stop package tampering, like, get a fucking clue, man.

These guys are dumb as bricks. They're dumb as bricks. The moment you should stop trusting them when you see ledger on the device. And at that point, just you should walk out of the store and say, I'm going to do my own D-Y thing and fuck that. Oh, God. There's this new scam that was posted. It's a new scam in Canada. And it came from the Bitcoin CA subreddit.

And remember we had, I discussed about the breached information from Ledger back in 2020. And there's a lot of breaching information out there, too, with respect to Bitcoin. Even Shake Pay had it to last year, two years ago. Anyways, buddy claimed he received several calls from somebody, and they were spoofing themselves to be from the RCMP. And the caller claimed to have confiscated data from a hacker group and that the data was compromised from this. So they said that a customer service agent is going to,

from the hardware wallet company, either like when he's using treasure, ledger, whatever would call him to make sure his assets were not compromised. And shortly after the RC&P guy hung up the phone, the service got the service, customer service guy called him right away. So like the timing of that was just suspect.

Very strange, very strange. Yeah. And the way, the RCMP guy was talking to him. It looks like they had enough information on him to just assume that just on the surface seemed like there was some reality of this. There's some validity to all this. But in the end, his spidey sense is tingled and he decided to not pursue any further.

So you're going to get, with all these data breaches, you're going to have all these different ways of people trying to get your keys from you, including spoofing themselves to be from the RCMP. people just need to be on alert whenever they're getting a call email text whatever the fucking may be just be careful it is from the real people and a lot of these companies like the treasers and the ledgers of the world they're not going to DM you they're not going to call you're not going to right you have to reach up to them direct and then they'll start talking to you and try to rectify the problem they're not going to reach up to you like that just doesn't

make sense just be careful people is if you're not you should just also never answer your phone. Like you should never answer your phone basically in 2026. I don't know about you, but like there's no one. Nobody calls me. It's that it's not a scam. Nobody. Every call I get is a scam. I guess we'll do one, maybe two more stories. This guy, vibe, Samurai A-I-N-X. He was posting that he was pissed off with strike in the service that they provided. He claimed to have lost his Bitcoin, a lot of Bitcoin because of strike. And he tried to make a transaction and it was held up because of something called the travel rule and vibe samurai AI that's the name of the dude he in error selected self-custy as the address that he's providing

where he wants the bitcoin to be sent to and he was even trying to get jack mallors to pipe in and well mallors chimed in and he wrote under the travel rule process that bitcoin had to be returned to the wallet you identified as your self-custy address remember he identified it's self-custody it It appears the address was not yourself custody address. It was actually an address associated with another service. That service is now unable to credit the return Bitcoin to your account. So this guy fucked up. This is why when you deal with any service out there, make sure you check, double check the Bitcoin address is correct.

Don't fucking assume shit. Don't fucking just check things off like crazy. Just be careful before you proceed. This guy said once you got to the point where, he was able to select off self-costing proceeded. He couldn't go back. He was kind of stuck in this loop where he couldn't go back to fix it. So what I'm trying to get at is

anything with Bitcoin, anything, just verified three times, just more and more. Make sure the address is right. Make sure everything is right. And also, man, these custodial exchanges, I don't know, man. Well, that's why I like Bull, you know. You'll get rugged, man. You will get rugged at some point. shotgun KYC or some other TOS nonsense.

Like, I don't know. It just seems to me that like it's so obvious that this is going to happen. It happens all the time, all the time. Yeah. You know what? Let's end it here because I think we have a lot of notable stuff to discuss. Love to hear it. Love to hear it.

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