The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Tariff War HEATS Up, The Bitcoin Bond Company, A Man on the Subway Did WHAT?! | CBP 211 Pt 1

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESIn this episode of CBP, we're diving into the latest developments in the world of Bitcoin and financial innovation. The tariff war is heating up, but what does this mean for the future of finance and the adoption of bitcoin? We're also exploring the concept of Bitcoin bonds, including The Bitcoin Bond Company, and what this could mean for the industry. Meanwhile, a surprising incident on the subway has left many scratching their heads. Join us as we break down the latest news today, macro trends, and market tools that you need to know about. From BTC analysis to Canadian Election hype, we're covering it all. Tune in for the latest bitcoin news today, macroeconomics, and insights into the world of Bitcoin.#bitcoin #btc #crypto #digitalassets #financialinnovation #carney #trump #poilievre #CanadianElection #CanadianPolitics #EconomicsJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

Friends and enemies. Welcome back to CBP number 211. We are exactly two weeks away from a Canadian federal Election and a CBP election night special that's really taking shape. I don't know if you noticed but Francis committed Mark Jettavik committed We're looking for maybe one or two more. I think boomers throwing his name in the ring Uh, we're looking for maybe one or two more. I think boomers thrown his name in the ring, uh, looking to be a very promising evening, starting at eight o'clock, going until the polls close and Mark Carney has coordinated the new leader of this country. You think that's going to happen? I don't know.

You know, I'm kind of on the fence. I was talking to my mother-in-law earlier. She's over right now. Just watching my daughter and, uh, like, I don't trust the polling obviously, but I just also don't trust anyone who thinks it's like a done deal going either way. I just don't think it's a, I think it's very much in flux though. Where do you come down?

I said it last week or two weeks ago. I think it's going to be a poly of majority still, regardless of what I see in the polls or poly market, just from what I see with boots on the ground. Well, the closest I can see with boots in the ground, somebody else taking photos because obviously I don't leave the basement, there seems to be a lot more people attending the the Poliev campaign rallies than they are the Carney rallies. Now, that may not be truly reflective of what's going to happen on Election Day,

but I'm just going to go with that. Could be proven wrong, but I still say it's going to be a conservative majority. And that's going on a limb, right? I'm not talking about going to... Yeah, I know. I know. That is... But the polls are kind of firming up a little bit in favor of the conservatives these days

compared to where they were last week. I don't know. There's all kinds of different reasons to think that the polling is off. Obviously, there's like the certain party voter. So this is a better way to describe that the polling is off. Obviously there's like the certain party voter. So there's a better way to describe that. But the people who already know who they're gonna vote for for sure. And then the people who, you know,

if the election was today, who would you pick? And it's a different question and pollsters, you know, they get data different ways as well. There's a tweet thread about this guy polling candidate or whatever, who's a former NDP candidate, like tells everything he'd know about the guy. but one of the ways he gets his data is by asking the campaign to ask questions at the door so the campaigns are asking

some of the questions for pollsters like that's that's not proper data collection I'm not an expert in that field but I know that that's not what you call a fair sample so I don't know man I think that in either case the the election night special is gonna be really really good here. Like I said, some high quality people, great thinkers, and it's going to be a fun night regardless. I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens and the response from Canadians, right? Debates, obviously, this week, Wednesday and Thursday. I tweeted out today a bit about that, but we'll get into some of that maybe. Let's talk about the sponsors first here. EasyDNS is the best place for you to register a domain.

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Uh, we use them for our bull referral code. Uh, we've used them for the blog on the website that I hastily update every week, including today, if you haven't gone to look at it, you should go check that out. And you can use Mark too. It's a great service. EZDNS is the best place, like I said,

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get 50% off your first round of buys. Can't beat it. Who's the second sponsor? Now it's both Bitcoin, but I don't want to overlook something with the first sponsor. People in the know, people that are in the industry that have their thumbs on the pulse of the know, people that are in the industry that have their thumbs on the

pulse of the industry, they're pointing people to EZDNS. I met somebody, Sean, this past weekend, and he's in the IT field and he recommends his customers use EZDNS. And if he's doing that, he's just a regular guy. Look, you should be doing that too. EZDNS is the way to go. But well, Bitcoin can't overlook them and had a good chat good time chatting with them this past weekend it was a always good to chat with the

folks over there look good time to buy Bitcoin obviously good time to sell Bitcoin probably not but you could just still do that with eat with bull Bitcoin 85,000 I just fucking just missed in my fucking block like it was like 85,000 or 84 it was pretty darn you know what are you gonna do you're gonna buy Bitcoin on chain lightning That's the way to go on chain is still really really cheap that you have no You have no excuse just buy your own chain and keep buying it but also don't overlook lightning eventually we're gonna need that once the fees are high and This will come sometime in the future when I do not know but either way you have that with bull Bitcoin

You could buy and sell on lightning as well It's a couple other things you could do with the bill service. Talk to somebody this past weekend who was using it and it's you this guy was paying his bills with his Bitcoin using bull Bitcoin to facilitate that really cool stuff also with bull Bitcoin you can buy gift cards with your Bitcoin and you can spend that in a real world because really you can't spend your Bitcoin right now directly in merchants not many merchants in Canada except Bitcoin direct so you have to do indirectly by buying these gift cards check them out if you can't spend your Bitcoin right now directly in merchants. Not many merchants in Canada accept Bitcoin direct. So you have to do indirectly by buying these gift cards.

Check them out if you aren't a bull Bitcoin user yet, use our code below or referral link. If you do that, $21 added to your account once you fund a necessary account. I think it's, I think it's put a couple hundred bucks or so, I forget what it is. Either way you get to one. So it's not too bad, so yeah.

Rock solid, rock solid rock solid. I love that housekeeping and boost last week coin Icarus highly regarded show not in the meme sense, but in the actual sort of held in high regard sense. We talked a lot about Bitcoin content some simply Bitcoin stuff the way that everything is fucking clickbait now and you know, everyone's on this infomercial model where they're always making content but never saying anything.

Len, I think that's a great way to describe it. I'm glad you said that to me one day. This week, unhypnotized BTC Heather will be on the show. Heather is a, like I said before, she's sort of beyond my expertise in basically every way. I'm not into hypnosis nor am I into matters of the, you know, the mind and the id, let's say, but she is and she's someone who's into Bitcoin and talks a lot about everything from, you know, breaking free of the shackles of your mind to what's another example, you know, dating a Bitcoiner, dating as a

Bitcoiner, it's gonna be interesting. I'm looking forward to talking with her. She comes highly recommended by a friend of the show, Dave Bradley. And then this Friday then, I think live at 12 o'clock on Good Friday, I'm gonna be on Pleb Underground. So that's gonna be fun. Phil's invited me. I'm happy to make my debut. And so I invite you guys to check that out. Take some time off from abstaining from meat and come listen to some Bitcoin content over on Phil's channel. I see in the chat, speak easy tapas lounge.

Yeah. We accept Bitcoin as a means of payment. There's a number of places that do, which is outstanding. That's in Ottawa. I'm looking at it right now. 55 York Street giving you a plug. Check them out. That's free. Free on the house.

Definitely go check them out. But anyway, for housekeeping, I think that's it. Next week. Are you doing the interview next week? I think you are. Right. I think to next two. I have no idea. You know what? I'm going to look. Yeah.

We're fighting for space. You and I, it looks like. This is behind the scenes. You should see the comments going on. He wants time. I want time. There's not enough of it looks like. This is behind the scenes. You should see the comments going on. He wants time. I want time. There's not enough of it. I did ask Len to move one interview for me. I think next week is Len. Len is talking to a buddy of ours, Tuan. And then the week after that on the 30th, I'll be talking to Millennial Moron, who you guys know for sure from Twitter and TikTok, a very popular guy., talks about a lot of

stuff real estate finance related, obviously Canadian as well, which is outstanding. So yeah, we got a lot of good shows coming up and they're going to keep coming on CBP. Boost? I'm ready. Only three because we're having some still difficult, I got to email Oscar because somebody didn't note that they did a boost for us, a boostogram, but it didn't show up on my thing. So I still got to reach out to Oscar. Either way, the three that came up, War Time, first three, three, three sats. And it's basically a firecracker with a fireball. That's it. It's like war time. It's like the site for hieroglyphs in this section of the show. He does this a lot. And I love War Time for this. He does another three, three, three sats

and his hands clapping. And each of the two are for two different episodes We released it was I think the episode that you released on Monday and then one on sorry Tuesday and then Wednesday So the Bitcoin stories then the notable slash we can't say the word much Mott talks one twenty three five hundred sats He said I would love to go to a Bitcoin meetup to share and learn would prefer the West end of the GTA. My wife is also sick of hearing about Bitcoin. Join the club.

Joey, you know, there may be time we should do some sort of get together. And we should just go to a park and do it. You know what I mean? Just, I would not do it at a park. I do. Why not do it? I think if we do it I would not do it at a park. Why not? I think if we do it, we will do it at, uh, it's going to either be the Collins or Thirsty Cactus in Dundas is my preference because that's close to my house.

Number one, but also because they're both pretty big and could handle 30, 40 people. If we, if we decided to do it, I like the park, just show up and just invade it. And that's that. And just keep going. I like the park. Just show up and just invade it. And that's that. And just keep going. I don't know. We'll see. But if you, if there's interest in that, like, yeah, definitely, I don't know, tell us in a boost or tell,

tell me on Twitter. Cause I do want to do it. And Tom and Nick always give me a hard time about not doing it. And they think we should go on a cross country tour. Maybe cross country tour. Yeah. I don't have a lot of time these days, but it'd be cool. You know, we, we, we maybe get a bus. Can we buy the NDP bus? They'll be looking to raise some cash at the end of this election, right?

Do they own that or they're renting that? It makes a huge difference. I'm guessing they're renting it. Whatever. I'm not going to do a cross-country tour. It's not going to happen this time. And by the time I'm ready, who knows? You'll be doing a cross-world tour. I'll have to come meet you. I think so. I really think so. Yeah. Anyways. Where should we go first here? That's all the boost. It's all the housekeeping. Only 10 minutes in. That's good. That's about five minutes more for Bitcoin stories than we usually have. So let's hop to it. Let's talk about right away shitty wallets like atomic and

Exodus those two are not open source atomic is totally not open source is totally closed next to this lease has some parts to it That is open source either way. They're both shitty in multiple reasons one reason they can explain Why they're shitty and why I like alternatives like Sparrow and Soon to be Cove. I haven't yet tried it out because it's not yet available for Android and hopefully it will be available for Linux and not too distant future. But either way, long story short, the two programs I mentioned, I'm talking Atomic Wallet

and Exodus, they have been affected with malware. And what happens is when you use it and you try to send Bitcoin it swaps out the send address to one that belongs to a malicious actor so they're the ones that get the Bitcoin in the end. This is really why I like and you should all like something like Sparrow and Cold Card because when you use the Cold Card to send out Bitcoin there's a sanity check before you do the partially signed bitcoin transaction it shows you on the screen where it's going to so you can confirm that it's the legitimate address and then you sign it and then you move the sd card

over at least that's the way i do it it's i'm old school and then once i open my sparrow i put in the sd card loaded up again i confirm the address where it's going to. That's the final sanity check. This gives you an opportunity to make sure that it's going to the right place. There is no interception here. I'm using a clean service. Totally clean. That's the way to do it. So this is all the reason why you should all not fuck around and find out when you do when you start using stuff like atomic wallet Exodus. I'm not gonna say you are

gonna get robbed, but the potential is there right it's just bullshit like so stay away from that I recommend using a clean computer something that shitty works just fine to run Sparrow just Sparrow just run that and it limits what bad could happen to you you don't have to have that computer always hooked up with you internet in fact you just turn it on as you need Sparrow but this is the way to go this is more of a call to action for people up there. Stay away from the shitty wallets. They are going to hurt you in the end. Don't forget too, that Atomic was hacked in 2023 and still hasn't really provided any updates on what the cause of that hack was or the root of that hack was. Like that's a sin

in cybersecurity and even a greater sin in the digital cash realm here in Bitcoin. I really have a hard time understanding why people aren't using Sparrow. The only thing people don't like about Sparrow, and actually Dave and I talked about this a little bit, the UI thing, except I think we're talking about MVK's products, but Sparrow is in the same boat. Sparrow is very bare bones, looks wise. Looks like something out of Windows, you know, XP era. Maybe a little after that, Windows NT, Windows 2000 NT era, something that that vintage. And it's a little bit intimidating because there are a lot of features and it's something you can kind of get carried away with and it doesn't

look as clean as blue wallet or green wallet. but it is fully function and the other thing that I think it has going for it and some people may disagree with this but it's got a very small dev team so yeah that means that updates don't come as large as they may otherwise come or as quickly as they may otherwise come but you also don't have problems with the multiple people at their hands in the pie working on software and then leaving you exposed basically to attacks like this. This particular attack, a PDF to office package from some other bit of software and injects malicious code into those two wallets. Like that's

that's something that took time to figure out probably. And I don't really think that this is excusable because like I said, 2023 you had a hack, now 2025 you have a hack And I don't really think that this is excusable. Because like I said, 2023 you had a hack, now 2025 you have a hack. I can't imagine you'd still be using these products. And like you said, that sanity check that you get when you're sending on Sparrow huge, but also then, you know, even back in like 2017, it was always best practice to check the last seven, eight, you know, numerical digits of the wallet you were trying to send to you and the wall that shows up on your device or your software, right?

And so you have to really have both those addresses handy. The one that you want to send to and it's, you know, in a separate window, the one that the wallet software wants to send to. And you have to be comparing them. I still do that today when I'm sending transactions. Doesn't everybody do that? Like I always double check the addresses. I agree but still I imagine that this is not the case and people are getting owned in the fact. I don't know if this malware masks it. It may appear it's going to the

right address and behind the scenes is changing it to malicious actor. This I don't know but come on there's a lot of people out there that are just clicking stuff quickly and they don't care and I don there's a lot of people out there that are just clicking stuff quickly and they don't care and I don't think a lot of people are checking it Maybe the majority are but there's gonna be a few people that aren't checking to make sure the address is correct with Bitcoin The onus is on you. There is nobody that's gonna make you whole again. You fuck up you fuck up Yeah, so this way it's imperative to make sure you double triple check If they take extra time, no fucking problem.

This is your money. You can, if you lose it, it's not going to come back to you. Nobody's going to help you. So that's why I like Bitcoin because you are ultimately responsible. This is what you need responsibility. Yeah. Good comments in the chat. You are the bank from mix and then boomer obviously stay away from shit coins and

really stay away from shit coin wallets. That's a good point. I just want to note the speak easy tapas lounge also saying complimentary cocktail to any CBP listeners who pay with Bitcoin. So there you go. If you're in the road trip, Joey, let's go for a drive. I'll get in the car right now. I'll see you in 10 minutes.

Then we'll head down. I should be there by midnight. You know what? And funny enough, just going into the weeds here, I've done day trips to Ottawa to watch the Leafs few times. Really? Yeah. And I've done day trips to Ottawa to watch the Leafs a few times. Really? Yeah. And I've been done that and gone to work the next day. Come back.

And this is before we had the 50 over, you lose your car laws here in Ontario. Yeah. Yeah. So my old car, I took it to a lot of many, many times and, uh, yeah. I made some record times. I'm sure. I'm sure. Anyway, stay away from these wallets. Bull Bitcoin.

Yeah, go. They expanded to Mexico. I'm not sure if you saw this one. So they are now over there. You're able to convert your Mexican pesos into the hardest asset known to man. And they recently expanded also to Costa Rica. And then shortly thereafter, they launched in France and then 26 other European countries. And now they're in Mexico.

So the people in Mexico can now join a mission just like you and I are part of. So not sure if people out there listening to us are in Mexico, but if you are, Bull Bitcoin is there to cover you. So check them out and you're good to go. I think we have some Mexican listeners. It's hard for me. Like when we were talking about bull Bitcoin early on, they were the best place for Canadians to buy and sell Bitcoin.

And they still are the best place for Canadians to buy and sell Bitcoin. It's not Bitcoin well, it's not ShakePay. Okay. You're never going to hear the guys at Bull Bitcoin talking about freedom money and freedom technology about anything besides Bitcoin. And these guys now are the best place in Europe and the best place in Mexico and the best place in Canada. And if you look at Francis's page, he's talking about some other expansion targets as well. Did he mention any names? He didn't, no he didn't, but I mean even if you talk to him, he'll tell you that he's

got a couple of places in mind. It's amazing, this is what you can achieve if you have a smallish focused team that's not worried about nonsense day to day. That's not worried about share price, that's not worried about Ethereum, that's not worried about nonsense day to day. That's not worried about share price. That's not worried about Ethereum. That's not worried about anything except how do we get Bitcoin in the hands of more people, whether it's helping people sell their house for Bitcoin, you know, move to another jurisdiction with Bitcoin. Like these are all services that they offer, you know, officially or unofficially.

And you know that people go to these guys for good reason. They, they, you know, the mission, uh, the mission thing that they have where, And people go to these guys for good reason. The mission thing that they have where they'll only give you a referral code if they value first. You got to pass a certain threshold. You have to be... It's like a purity test almost, but hey, it works. If you go to the Mission Telegram chat, it's pretty lit.

It's a lot of good Bitcoiners talking about a lot of things that are Bitcoin and Bitcoin adjacent. A lot of freedom talking there. And that's really what Bitcoin's about. And to be able to get it to all these other countries is amazing. Francis has said in the past, you know, on this show and I think other shows as well that the US is not in the cards, but everywhere I get the feeling is fair game. That's too bad because that would have then covered the whole North American sphere, right?

It's because there's too many state by state regulators. Right. It's a very, very difficult market to break into on the financial product side, I would guess, but that's just my guess. Right. It just the, the thought of getting, it's so lucrative given how much money sloshing around over there compared to other countries. So your voice sounds so good in that mic.

It's so deep. It's way deeper. Yeah. It's good. A little punch in there. I like that Is it sending blood to the wrong place? We'll talk about that in a little while Pierro shard Long resume this guy co-founded this atoshi nakamoto Institute

He was part of riot and left there not too long ago. Also part of Kraken. BitPay, sorry. This past week he spun up a new company called the Bitcoin Bond Company. And it's to offer Bitcoin-backed structured products to traditional credit investors. And their goal, they want to try to acquire $1 trillion worth of Bitcoin over the next 21 years. I assume this is going to be the equivalent of 21, sorry, of 1 trillion in 21 years, not $1 trillion today because that's quite a feat if you could try to get 1 trillion worth of

Bitcoin in today's value. But either way, he says he's going to be targeting institutional investors with this, that were scared of Bitcoin's volatility, but want credit like returns. And also, this part I like, he's going to be providing education to these investors who have knowledge of bonds backed by real estate or corporate debt. So he's going to show them something a little bit different. So of note, the Bitcoin that he plans to hold on, it's going to be held by a third party. They're not going to self manage the Bitcoin.

Okay. Okay. So let me ask something, but like we talked about this before and I always say that there just isn't a good way legally to do this custody thing for some of these products. And you say, well, we got to break down the walls, blah, blah, blah. Sayler couldn't do it. He may not have been the best guy.

Pierre is for sure the best guy. His wife is an accountant, you know, CFA or whatever. He's worked with Kraken, worked with a number of different companies, as you mentioned. Like if he couldn't do it, are you willing to at least move a little bit from your position that this might not be feasible for the time being? There are companies that already do it, large companies that already do it. Why can't we follow suit with them?

What large companies are doing it? Tesla. I have done all the research I have done with Tesla. I have not found any information show that they have a third party cussing their Bitcoin. They are for sure using a third party. Find it for me me prove me wrong because I have not found it. So based off that this is a very large company Heavily traded and to the best of my knowledge again prove me wrong. They're holding their own corn

I go if they could do this. Why can't anybody else do this? And so I'm not gonna use them is they the shine of everything, but for this fuck, they're doing it. So it's not like, oh, you know, it's companies don't do this. Companies are publicly traded. This is a fucking one of the largest companies in the fucking world that's doing this. SpaceX is not publicly traded. So that's they may be holding on to it. That's fine and dandy. But the one that I want to see is a publicly traded company that's fucking large. It does this Tesla checks those boxes. Right.

So can't find it. Right. I've dug as far as I could and I couldn't find shit. So if Piers not doing it, I'd like to know why Piers not doing it. Maybe I'll invite him on the show or something. Yeah. See if he wants to come on and talk about it. I'd love to know the answer to that.

Yeah. I like the idea anyway. Pierre is a guy who's like been jumping from company to company for the last minimum five or six years. And he's an important voice in the Bitcoin space, not just on the professional side, though obviously he does wear a suit better than most Bitcoiners. And I'm not afraid to say that. He also is one of the most important voices in the podcast space. Noted is like an unbelievable legendary OG podcast from the early era of Bitcoin podcast

with Michael Goldstein, Bitstein and Pierre. Now they're running a podcast called The Reorg. I don't know if you've heard that one heard that one, then where they review old stuff that the Nakamoto Institute has published and sort of talk about, you know, how those ideas and theses developed over time and where they got stuff wrong and where they got stuff, right. It's a great show. And Pierre is like legendary Bitcoin. He came on this show, uh, first time we asked him and was a fantastic guest.

I was still kind of finding my foot footing as an interviewer back then. It was a few years ago now. And I really thought that he provided a lot of thoughtful answers to questions that maybe weren't fully flushed out. And he's, he's just a guy who gets it. You know, he's an outstanding Bitcoin communicator as, uh, as people say, and he's, he's in my top five sort of voices in Bitcoin, I think, and I'm looking forward to seeing what this company does.

He's obviously been thinking about this for some time. And I wish him all the best. I wish him all the best. By the way, Tesla's Bitcoin held in custody by Coinbase Prime. So there you go. Show me where it is. Because I've checked.

I just used AI in search. And it just says. Give me some legitimate. Recent analysis indicates that Tesla's Bitcoin is held in custody of Coinbase Prime. It's from Forbes. It's from Forbes. Okay.

Forbes, that's a very reputable place. Or FX Street or Forbes. That's all I got. FX Street is probably a little bit better, but everything I've checked, nada. So until I see, and I looked at everything and I could not find a single fucking thing. Either way, this is looking like it's another way I'm talking about peers initiative here to try to get as much like ring as much money out of bitcoin as possible, right? Like offering a fiat like type offering it's almost in a way. Do you remember we were talking about Adam back? Yeah. And his

initiative. Like it's almost like this is I think you pointed out this is the way things are probably going to be moving is there's no way to really Monetize Bitcoin any further than what we have right now. So they have to go to some other thing for better for worse I mean whatever I Kind of wish we had stuff that's more Bitcoin related. I mean this is Bitcoin related, but it's still very much fiat. So I Think this is a I'm more and more very much fiat. So I think that more I'm more and more asking questions about like, are things net positive or net negative, right? Are they one or zero on this on the sort of spectrum of good or bad for Bitcoin? This is a one. I think it's a one. And you can

imagine, you know, we have to speculate sometimes about, you know, is is owning Coinbase stock a top of the funnel moment is owning the Bitcoin ETF iBit a top of the funnel moment. And I think the biggest issue is that it's hard to say for sure, because you just don't know who people are talking to when they talk to Fidelity or when they talk to, you know, Coinbase support or whatever, you know, what are those people talking about when it comes to Bitcoin? But I know what Pierre is going to be talking about when it comes to Bitcoin. And when these people ask me about Bitcoin, and I'm confident that this is going to be a really strong top of funnel for a lot of institutional players if he's successful.

And so I want him to be successful. I think this is nice. And of those, how many are going to look at Bitcoin and say, oh, this is something I'm going to buy and hold? I mean, I think a lot. If Pierre gets you in a room, the likelihood that you leave that room and don't have Bitcoin on your mind and don't want to buy something, it's got to be among the lowest possible, you know, numbers.

I think what he's trying to target is people that are just looking for a different type of yield, a different type of like putting your money on something and getting something more out of return. And people that are bond related and shit like that. And those people, they're going to end up becoming hard asset, Bitcoin enthusiast. I don't know. I secure my own key, shit like that. I mean, if they made it to the bond thing, then presumably they get the value. Like, you know what? I kind of look at this. Yeah, go ahead. It's kind of similar to what

like, uh, sailor selling with his, um, what's that? Yes. That's just what is it? Shrike, whatever the fuck it is. It's kind of like that, right? Like for people who are buying that, like, why are they buying it? Are they, oh, I'm a fucking Bitcoin or I want to hold my own keys. Or I just want to get something 8% yield on, you know, I think it's the 8% crowd. I don't know. And then the eight, the eight percenters where we got to find and eliminate the eight percenters ASAP. Yeah.

Well, they want to ensure that they're beating inflation at seven and a half percent. So that half per percent that they're getting, they're laughing. That's about it. That's, I think those are like, that is a valid point. And I think these guys are really thinking about this more and more. I don't know. I love Pierre, I love the idea. I am always skeptical of these things working long term. It's always a tricky thing to play against the fiat kings and queens, right? They're always changing the rules.

And this is the thing about these financial tools that you're exposed to, to those rules more than you are if you just hold the core asset. And I think people are going to slowly start to realize that if they haven't already, I think a lot of people have, but there's still a number of people who haven't and I think they're going to. And just, we'll go on a little bit of a tangent here. In the past, we can change the price of Bitcoin and the markets as a whole. There was a lot of volatility, right? And with respect to that, and I don't want to know how much Bitcoin you have or how much

equities you have, but did you really care? Did it really, did you lose any sleep? No. Was it just- The only time I got, the only time I really paid attention to the price with intent was when I was looking to make a buy. Okay. Like, but like, no, do I care about the price on the downside?

Yeah. I don't. See, there is a number where I would care, I'm sure, but it's not anywhere near where it is now. I don't even know what that number would be for me to be honest for to care I would care if I was in a different state if I was heavily into Stocks if I was heavily into bonds, you know, I was a retiree I had very little to no exposure to Bitcoin Do you know I I would be sweating it out almost when I see this the stock market going with the way it is

But given where I am in life, I'm a little bit older But I have a you know, fair decent amount of exposure to corn I could care less what happens to everything even the price of Bitcoin if it goes down great I mean like you say it's a almost a buying opportunity, but I know it's gonna go back up it's just my mentality has changed quite a bit and What happens it happens? I don't really care. I can't sweat it because I can't change it But one thing I can change is how much Bitcoin I'm gonna have tomorrow.

And that's really what I wanna have is more of that tomorrow than anything else. So that's, I just wanted to just mention that. Coinbase though, let's talk about their ideas of monetizing shit. My favorite stock, yeah, go ahead. Do you still have it? You still have you sold? I have not. Do you wanna disclose it? You're still, have you sold?

Do you want to disclose? I have Coinbase stock still. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'm not a frequent buyer of Coinbase stock, but I have Coinbase stock. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we talked about, like, I'm the only, I'm disclosing my financial plans on this

show because you keep asking me about... Well, it's always the same, right? I don't use my TFSA nearly as much as I used to, but I am still a dollar cost average enjoyer on the equity side, though not as much as I used to be. Still it's been years since I added to my TFSA. Yeah, you've been steadfast. Fuck them. And what Coinbase is trying to do though, they're trying to monetize on chain advertising,

on chain advertising, Joey. Yeah. Right? So back in January, they bought up a company called Spindle, S-P-I-N-D-L, and they are, or were, an on chain ads and attribution platform. So they gobbled them up and got all the goodies that come along with it. And hopefully this on-chain advertising stuff is they focus mainly or in

totality on these shitcoin networks and they don't migrate over to the Bitcoin network. But we saw what happened when people start spamming Bitcoin, the fees go up and you know some people weren't happy. I'm gonna raise my hand. And so right it looks like they're gonna spam the networks or networks with trash and you know they're looking to hire a senior council product for ad tech and this is specifically to do with that it's aka a spam specialist so if you are a spam specialist you may want to check them out and submit your resume. They say they're probably going to integrate this into the Coinbase wallet to take advantage of advertising and all the more reason why people should use something like Sparrow, right? Like why would you use anything else besides Sparrow? Perhaps even Kovan in your future. I can't use it right now because I'm on Android,

but people on iOS, I think, could take advantage of cove check it out either way With respect to this on chain advertising stuff, I think it's gonna be another money pit for them You know, they just it will be in that negative for that. They could go through the list Remember to hit coinbase Pro not too long ago They mothballed that that was for professional traders and people that experienced in trading like gone down in 2023 the NFT marketplace that came out it was launched in April 2022 and the amount of NFTs and shit that was being traded on there was far less than what the alternatives were. Something called Coinbase Bundle. I really had to do some searching here.

This is a beauty of a service that was launched back in September of 2018 and allowed users to easily purchase a basket of top cryptocurrencies available on Coinbase and you just do with a single click what that was gone in July 2019. So yeah it's I mean I could go on and on but I think I made my point here. I have nothing against them trying new things like you know the what is it failure is orphan, but success has many parents. And people need to try shit, but with this monetizing on chain steps, I look at this as this potential new way to spam Bitcoin. I hope to God they stay away from it because we don't need it.

You got to help me understand who's asking for this. That is a big question for me. Who is saying to themselves, I need this product and Coinbase is the company that can deliver it for me. I don't think anybody is asking for this. So why are they doing it? That's a great question. I don't know.

Somehow through the market research, it came up with this. On-chain everything has been a flop. On-chain NFTs, done. On-chain, you know, like you name it, it's flopped. Ordinals, NFTs, all this stuff, garbage, gone. Why would anyone want to advertise on-chain? And then even worse, as you mentioned, you have to use the Coinbase wallet to see the ads. No, I'm assuming they're going to be integrating that. You must have to because you certainly sparrow is never gonna integrate away

for you to see the ads green wallet and blue wallet are never gonna integrate away for you to see the ads the lightning network is never gonna integrate away for you to see the ads the miners are never gonna integrate away for you to see the ads like like why who is asking for this and how are they gonna execute on this? Shit coiners. Do they have enough? Do they have enough volume to make this a moneymaker? I can't imagine they do.

I don't know. Shit coiners are broke. Look at the fucking prices in the in the alt market. It's like it's a fucking nightmare over there. It looks like Hiroshima. Like who is going to be advertising on chain? And what are they advertising? This is the other question. Why would you ever pay, think about the way advertising works, okay?

Advertising, you have to gear it toward certain people. So you use their vital information, their age, their location, their preferences, their Google searches, their Amazon history, whatever, right? Use all that and you get a targeted ad that, you know, has a higher chance of being clicked by someone who's, you know, 31 and likes playing basketball. Then it does by, uh, you know, some ham planet in a McDonald's parking lot, waiting for her third pickup order of the day, uh, you know, trying to get to 8,000

calories, that's, that's not trying to get to 8,000 calories. That's, that's not how, that's not how advertising works. Those ads, by the way, are expensive to target. So then you're going to tell me that not only are you going to have to pay for the advertising, presumably to Coinbase for use in their wallet product. Again, we're kind of speculating here, but this is the only way I can imagine this working. So you pay Coinbase to do the advertising, then you presumably pay Coinbase for the targeted part. And then you also have to pay the on-chain fee, presumably,

which is variable. So like it's going to be expensive to do this and less effective. So why would anybody do this? Why would anybody advertise this way? So after this, are you still going to hold on to your Coinbase shares? I'm buying more. I'm buying more. I'm buying more. I'm dc- I'm up in the DCA. Are you kidding? This is great. Good revenue coming up here. I can't wait. So I don't know who's asking you. Again, like I said earlier, there's been some market research. It's not even a hypothetical. Like you have to- you're hiring a position that's going to pay a quarter of a million

dollars a year in salary, by the way, low end. So it's on the website, it's on the posting, right? So it could be a quarter of a million rupees. So it could be a quarter less. USD to me, buddy. Like I, you know, just saying here, 224 to 264 is the pay range. Target, you get equity, you get benefits. I don't know.

Again, what person who has an advertising budget is like, yeah, I'd rather advertise on chain than on Instagram. No one's fucking saying that. Instagram, you could do it on YouTube. No, no, I'm gonna do it on fucking YouTube. I'll's fucking saying that. Instagram, you could do it on YouTube. No, no. I'm going to do it on fucking ETH. I'll take your ad money. I'll charge you half of what Coinbase does. I'll wear your shirt. I'll fucking read your ad. No problem. I know. We won't read the ad. I may wear it. I might wear a shirt. That's as far as I go, but there's definitely no ad read.

But you know what? I mentioned the name Ethereum. Did you, somebody posted that on X and I fucking laughed at this. Oh boy. You heard of that Mantra rug pull that happened? Have you heard about this or no? So Mantra was, is a shit coin and it lost within a period of a short period of time, a couple of hours, 90% of its fucking value dropped. 90% in like just a few hours.

You know what they say about 90% drops, Len. There's always 90% more. So it dropped that much in like that much. But either way, if you look at the one year chart of that Mantra coin, it's actually outperformed ETH. If you look at the ETH one year chart. Yes, so even though it dropped 90% in a fucking couple of hours, it's still outperformed ETH.

Oh my gosh, anyone talk to Sean David Smith or whatever that guy's name is from bankless Don't tell those guys, you know if you're gonna talk about this, you got to change your voice to that You got the the board over. Oh, yeah. Hold on. Let me check. Thank you. We got bankless guys about that? Ethereum's gonna flip in. It's gonna flip in. What's the other token called again? Mantra. It's gonna flip in Mantra before the end of the year. We're in an Ethereum bull market. Retarded. I can't believe this. Mantra. I've never even, I'm so disconnected from the shitcoin scene now. I just don't... The once every couple of weeks bankless listen is all the exposure I get to this stuff.

If Pletitor posts some receipts that I think are funny, I might read through it, but generally I'm just completely disconnected now. Well, Trump, let's talk about him with respect to Bitcoin because he signed some new legislation that may positively impact privacy. And so legislation that was supposed to take an effect in 2026, just next year, would enable the IRS to force cryptocurrency brokers to provide tax information on transactions conducted under platform. And this is a holdover from the Biden administration.

So with Trump trying to position himself as a Bitcoin slash crypto guy, obviously he's going against this. And the purpose of the law was supposed to limit unpaid transaction by people who owe for their trades. So people that make a trade and make gains and don't report it, they wanted to limit that. So they wanted their slice of the pie.

So if you just look at that, I think this could have been used in potentially far worse ways than that as well. Especially if they wanted to target Bitcoiners in the future, because then they would have direct access to different disinformation and certainly, however, to use that information, who knows, but it's not to say that this won't happen, but either way way at least with Trump doing this move it's a step in the right direction for people who advocate for privacy and This move doesn't absolve you from having to pay your taxes if you do those trades

So if you are trading Bitcoin for cash and going back and forth, remember those are all taxable events It's up to you. If you want to pay your taxes I would advise you do so you don't want somebody like the IRS or CRA coming after you. It could be a heavy-handed response, but you know what? You guys are all adults. Do what you want. But I like this move by Trump. And the fact he did this though, makes me wonder whenever there's a world without Trump, would they reverse Trump's decision and bring this back? This is more of a privacy thing for me more than anything else. And privacy, regular regulation, rollback. It's all, it's all in the same vein as what you've seen from Trump a lot.

And there's good and bad with Trump, like any politician, but this is, it's good. I don't think anyone would ever characterize this as not good with it. I mean, mixers and stuff are important. They're an important part of Bitcoin. They're an important part of anonymity and privacy. I think these are, these are great tools They're an important part of Bitcoin. They're an important part of anonymity and privacy. I think these are great tools. I'm glad to see this. Well, on top of that, we'll talk about mixers

and specifically here, because the Department of Justice drops a news this past week that people who develop stuff like mixing services are not liable and won't be criminally charged. And this was a memo that came out as of April 7th. So it actually came out Monday last week but I missed it for that show but here we are talking about it today. And the memo stated that Trump would like to end the regulatory weaponization against digital assets. And I

wonder if the DOJ stance is going to change once Trump is no longer in office but again I digress we just talked about that. So with this news that came out, then Phoenix immediately pivoted and said that they are making their product available back in the United States. So you could use the Google Play Store or I'm not sure if it's on the app store for Apple, but it is. Okay. It's there, but it was never really taken away because the APK was always available for people who want to sideload. The GitHub was always accessible regardless of where you live in the world. But the coordinators for the privacy stuff weren always available for people who want to sideload. The GitHub was always accessible regardless of where you live. But the coordinators for the privacy stuff weren't available, right?

That's excuse me. That's the big problem when when you're using those tools, you need a coordinating service. Right. And so if it's illegal, they just shut that part of the wallet off. Even if you're in the States, like if you were living in other parts of the world, like I'm not sure. I don't know. Maybe, though. Yeah. Phoenix is in the app store still. So it well, maybe it wasn't know. Maybe though. Yeah, Phoenix is in the App Store still. So, well, maybe it wasn't there. If you asked a week ago, probably wasn't there because of this move.

And then Phoenix then, well, you're in Canada. So then again, it doesn't really impact you. Yeah, I don't see anything here about the mixing. So maybe it was just always there for us and they never took it out. But yeah, so it was only for people in the States that were unfortunately impacted. But like I said, the GitHub was always available. Anybody could have used it. Plus there's VPNs and shit like that slide loading a lot of different options. But either way, with this latest DOJ move, they, you know, we have the samurai wallet. I wonder what's going to happen to those two dudes that were charged, they were running it. I'm guessing those charges are going to be dropped. I mean, tornado cash founders,

they had sanctions that were dropped against them on March 21st. So they had sanctions up until March 21 and no longer sanctions against the Tornado Cash folks. So all these mixing things. It looks like people are, at least the administration seems to be on board with this. Again, privacy, you know, if you're going against it, it's a slippery slope. Good to have options. Yeah. I completely agree with you.

I think this is good stuff. And like I said, it's not a Trump rah rah moment, but this is a good move from his administration. And as I said earlier, it's in keeping with the theme that we're seeing less red tape, less regulation. You may say that this opens up Bitcoin, crypto, whatever, to be a little too wild or a little too criminally oriented, but I disagree completely. I think we always say, you know, what currency is everyone used for crime, Len? It's not Bitcoin.

It's the dollar. So I, Yeah, in cash. Yeah. How could you? This is great. I think this is fine. I think this is really good. And let's see. Now the big thing is, can we take advantage of this gap in regulation and build something that's more regulatory proof?

I don't know. That's something for those involved to consider though. I would say that they're probably thinking about that quite a bit. Well joint market is regulatory proof because everybody runs their own instance for that. Yeah, yeah. It's very decentralized. To go on a different topic, but kind of similar one, when you're dealing with cash, you know, when you go to the bank, at least here in Canada, I don't know if it's applicable in the United States, when you're withdrawing 10k or more, there's a lot of questions and because of

KYC or Anti-money laundering that's the one anti-money. I'm wondering are they gonna change that to be kind of in line with Inflation because that's been a 10k for some time right and 10k today is not the same 10k There was 10 years ago is it's now gonna be easier and easier like not to say that people are just Withdrawing 10k and went from there, but know, there's a point in time in the distant future That's gonna be like 10k is gonna be like what do you think they're gonna change it? I I don't think so, but why not and why not it's obviously it's beneficial for capturing what it's but Over that's when you're pushing like a cart of groceries from Costco and it is now it's easily over a thousand. Yeah. Right. Now, if we 10x that, yeah, it seems like it's a heck of a lot.

But then it's like, you know, here's going for groceries and you know, it would make this way easier. Bitcoin, CBDC, and that's what you're going to see. That's that is what you're going to see. You're going to see that as part of the regulatory framework around CBDCs. In our Discord, there was some pretty spirited discussion about CBDCs earlier in the week. I kind of caught part of it. Are you on the fence that CBDCs are imminent or? Yeah, I think they're close.

On a retail side. I mean, you think they're further than me. And actually, Mark thinks they're further than me too. And you guys are really my barometer for these sorts of things. But on retail? Yeah, I think they're further than me and actually mark thinks they're further than me too and you guys are really my You know barometer for these sorts of things, but I'm retail. Yeah, I think they're close. I do think they're close Yeah, yeah for whatever really and people who are like Well, it's not as bad as you might think Or CBDCs are far away or you don't have to worry about your you know money being taken in a CBDC I would just point you to this story in the UK I'm pretty sure we talked about it this guy misgendered somebody in a classroom or something and the UK government drained his bank account

Or locked access to his funds like the CBDC thing is a nice tag And it's a bit of a distraction from what's actually going on that the majority if not the entirety of your actually going on that the majority, if not the entirety of your nest egg is digitally available to you and to the powers that be. And if you step out of line, you will have a problem. The thing is that that line is getting closer and closer all the time and it's hard to see sometimes and the penalty is just as stiff. And so to people who say stuff like it's conspiratorial, I think you're wrong, honestly. I think it's a sign that you're either too clever by a half and thinking, oh, the tech

is not going to work or oh, the government would never do this. It's really simple, honestly, to do. I can't see why a government wouldn't want to do it. It gives them way more control over funds. Is it one of the selling points? We talked about government is starving for tax receipts. It's a no brainer, right? It's a complete no brainer.

Could you imagine the selling point? You could say, look, people out there that are engaging in the sale of drugs, guns, shit like that. You're using cash. We can eliminate that. This is a great fucking quote from Boomer. A bank account is a 203 multi-sig between you, the bank, and the government. It's just so true.

NVK should honestly etch that into cold cards because that is truly what you're up against when you're using digital currencies and that includes your debit card, by the way. Anything that's non- sorry sorry that is centralized not decentralized it's that's what you're dealing with because you're dealing with one or a few entities that have the ability to control something and with the cvdc you're talking a node of one it's right like let's be honest and that's what makes bitcoin so unique and so compelling to a lot of folks is that you know you can run your own node with very little input whatsoever. Yeah, and you can't say the same about a lot of other things.

And like I was trying to say, it's easy to sell that to the normies out there. You know, like these people, they're exchanging cash, buying these illegal stuff, we could put an end to that. Furthermore, people that should be paying their taxes, just selling stuff on Craigslist or selling stuff or whatever, and doing this a lot, we should be capturing those tax receipts, right? They should be paying their fair share taxes. Yeah, I want them to pay their

taxes, blah, blah, blah. And then it comes in and then- How many times have we talked about this, Len, that there's a growing number of have-nots who are finding themselves more and more, like they're feeling more and more hopeless, they will vote against your interests all the time and your interests eventually are gonna be, we have reason to believe people are not paying their taxes and you're missing out on services because of that. And this is why like the WEF thing

and the whole like Davos crowd thing everyone talks about and carbon taxes to protect the climate, like these things are all just veiled attempts at increasing tax receipts at the end of the day. And you know, it's not gonna be a huge tax, I don't think in any of these cases, but it will be something that's gonna affect the way you think about spending

and affect the way you think about money and affect the way that you're able to live. And at the end of the day, that's important. And you know, CBDC's, it's not that everyone is trying to evade taxes. It's that as taxes become more, more domineering, people will push back and find ways around them because they're just not just, and this prevents those, um, those instances from really taking root.

And I think that's what this whole thing is about. You know, it's not hard to figure that out. Now the question for Canada on CBDCs is, you know, if, if there's, if they start checking Joey and Len's, you know, income and expenditures for tax receipts, well, then they have to start checking Mr. Chan and Mr. Singh as well. And they don't really want to for a number of reasons. Right. So that's, that's a problem that they're going to have to solve, but it's a basic

thing standing between, Hey, you tell me, right? Everyone talks about how there's no link between CRA and mortgage verification and presumably that's not that hard to do. The only reason they don't do it is because I mean, either it's just corruption or they need those dollars to keep coming into housing. And so like there's really no other way to, to, to navigate that without one of those two possibilities being a reality. And so if they do go to CBDCs, you have to reconcile that difference somehow. I'm not

sure how they do it, but it's just something to keep in mind. It's just something to keep in mind is all. That's all I'm saying. Really what can you do about it? We have to live within this environment right now. I mean, I can speak for myself. I don't want to speak for everybody out there, but I get paid every two weeks and it goes right to my bank account I can't get it to be paid in cash I have to so I have to live within this fiat environment I although I could pull out whatever I can and buy Bitcoin with it

But that goes to the point I'm trying to make is that's really the one way you can protect yourself from it And when you know, I'm preaching to the choir for the most part here, but anyone that doesn't understand with Bitcoin There's not there's no entity on earth There's no one individual There's nobody that could stop me from sending my Bitcoin to whoever I want If I want to send you my Bitcoin Joey and I broadcast it that Bitcoin as long as it's the miners gonna pick it up next It will go through nobody could stop that. That's it. It's done And it goes through my node and that's so beautiful. And that takes away a lot of the power of weaponization of money because now I have the power of using it.

I can't weaponize it, but it can't be weaponized. That's right. So it's just really a medium of exchange. What does, what does Lowry say? Infinitely defensible, right? The asset that's infinitely defensible. Have you read his book? I haven't read software. All the stupid group chats I'm in, people who love it or hate it, it's like extremely polarizing. I did buy a book by a national post columnist whose name I forget now called Don't Be Canada. It's a book about how we basically adopted all the worst policies all at once over the last 10 years or so. I got to read it.

It's very short, but I think I'm going to enjoy it. Get the audio book. Nah, I got to read more. I got, I have to get out of this like screen dopamine thing. I'm finding that with the audio book. You don't need, there's no screen time. It's just whatever you're doing. But like, no, there's writing a car.

Here's the thing. Okay. Uh, there's good data around retention of information when you read or write compared to when you watch or listen and reading and writing always, always, always ends up with more retention than watching and listening. You can imagine why, you know, when you're writing something out as opposed to typing it even, there's also data about that. Like typing something, writing something, just not even close

in terms of data retention. And I, you know, I got to get back into that habit. I'm so bad for it. I can still recall stuff I wrote in for my notes for university. Yeah, when you write it down, it stays with you. Yeah, I 100% agree. I can still recall stuff I wrote for my notes for university. Yeah, same. When you write it down, it stays with you. I 100% agree, but just given time constraints, now you're a new father, right?

So you can understand the value of trying to maximize your time by trying to listen to an audiobook here and there, but either way. Joey, let's transition to the rest of the news. Transitioning. We love that. Let's do it. We're going over to the notable stories. Hey, before we do it, don't you want to make any comment about the background, that beautiful background? I mean- Let's take our- I'll take ourselves out here. Okay. Wait a minute. I won't be able to talk, but you guys can look at the background.

Take me off. I don't go. That's going to mess up the audio too, because now it's going to give me another file for this. Fuck that. Oh, motherfucker. Yeah, whatever. It's okay. Yeah, I made that in GROK. It took me a little prompting, but I'm getting better at that.

Anyway, come back if you're on audio and if you're on video, stay tuned. If you're on Twitter, YouTube, whatever, you're live with us. We're not going anywhere. You know what's next. So hang in and take care of yourselves otherwise. And don't be a mantra cuck.