The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - THE BTC SESSIONS BAN, BITCOIN MORTGAGES, BRAND NEW MINERS | The CBP 221 Pt 1

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.

a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably get other stuff as well. Friends and enemies, welcome back Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better and formless, listen to Len and Joey. Spots are taken care of right off the top Oh, big coin and easy DNS the media is feeding the slop

It doesn't matter what topics discussed quality entertainment and information you can trust Information you can trust send the guys some value boost them with some stats Bitcoin is the scarcity acid I mean, it's just a fact geopolitical national down to the local Friends and enemies, welcome back to Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Happy Canada Day Eve, I guess, right? Looking forward to another banger show here, Len and I coming to you even on a long weekend. Do you count this as a long weekend? Do you count this as, because it's kind of like a gap day, right? What do you, what do you say about this? Yeah, I know. It was a work day for me. That just didn't change it. So I didn't take a four day weekend. So it was just a regular day. It's nice to have a break in the middle, but yeah, whatever it is, you seem to be more chipper, more relaxed, more loose.

Yeah, I've had four, four Tolkien's, two craft, two cores light here preparing for the show, trying not to get too ahead of myself. But yeah, things are going to be fun tonight, I think. I don't know, I was thinking about the length of the show tonight. Do you want to go the full hour and change? I don't know how many people are going to be watching. I never really gave that much thought, but. Let's see.

We'll just play things as they come. So we may cut the Bitcoin and the backend of the short show short depending. Some big stories though. We got to cover ECB, obviously talking about your savings, among other things. They can't get enough of your money Len. You know, everything they want to do requires someone's money and it's never their own. it's always yours. Let's do the sponsors first and foremost. EZDNS is the lead sponsor, the banner sponsor, the presenting sponsor, whatever lingo you want to use. Mark has been a great friend to the program for many years at this point and I hope you guys are using him for all your DNS needs. He's the friendly neighborhood registrar. If you want to

port a website, buy a website, a domain I should say. He'll help you with that and once you get the website, if you want to port a website buy a website a domain I should say he'll help you with that and once you get the website if you want to do some Bitcoin stuff virtual private server stuff you name it he's got your back Mark's been around this game for a long time the Bitcoin game for a long time takes Bitcoin for his services has a Bitcoin Treasury strategy before it was cool before it was a hundred X in the value of your publicly traded stock Mark was taking Bitcoin and stashing it on his treasury. Len, if you go to EZDNS and use our promo code CBP media, you get half off your first round of buys, which is great.

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It was good to see him as always. And yeah, fantastic sponsor. Great partner to the show. Bull Bitcoin, right? And they may not be the flagship, but they're certainly a great sponsor, a great partner for our show, because why we like them for a number of different reasons Not custodial, right? And we've talked about not your keys not your coin You don't have this with bull Bitcoin because when you purchase with bull Bitcoin, you've got to provide an address

There's no way to facilitate a buy without providing an address really cool stuff over there Do your buys do yourselves the price of Bitcoin? It's it's a stable coin now. It's 1073 seems to be like that forever So if you want to buy or sell your stable coin, they'll be happy to do it on chain lightning Whatever you want a few different options Then not just that You want to pay some bills right like 1073? That's a decent amount right like maybe you bought you bought it 60, maybe you bought it 70, maybe you bought it 20. Hey, you start using your Bitcoin to pay your bills, build Bitcoin, we'll facilitate those purchases

or those payments for you. No questions asked. Also, there's a few other things you could do. You could start sending e-transfers with your Bitcoin. So check it out. If you haven't yet opened an account in Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica, some parts of Europe, what are you doing? Use our promo code below, check it out. and it will take a little bit off the sting when

you defuse at least when you make your buys and sells. You're dragging your feet if you haven't started to use bull Bitcoin. So some housekeeping here. We actually have some Wednesday shows because I cannot stay away from the Wednesday interview program. So I'll tell you who I'm thinking about having. I think Daniel Prince is going to come on and talk about education. I think he's homeschooling his daughter. You guys may know him from his podcast. No, I think he's a, he's a Bitcoin

podcaster. That was a different guy, different Prince, I think, but he's a Bitcoin podcaster and he's big on, um, I guess we'll call it non-traditional education. So I want to talk to him. We're going to do an hour with him at some point. I also have an open DM with Heather Exner-Piro, who is an energy specialist Canadian, very, very strong on not only energy policy in Canada, but also stuff like AI and energy demands. She did a great interview on Looney Hour last week.

I reached out to her right away. She agreed to come on. I'm gonna schedule that. But this week Len, we have maybe Tristan and Pablo or someone from Learning Bitcoin. I don't know. I don't think I want to call it a conference. I don't think they want to call it a conference. But it's a meeting of the minds for Bitcoiners who have a lot in common and want to see this thing grow in a way that makes sense. You guys might remember that last year, Daniela came on to talk to me for about an hour about the conference, about her journey, among other things. And I'm looking forward to

talking to someone from that group soon on that topic. Do you want to announce the big guest we have in the pipeline that I've yet to reach out to? No, until it's booked. Okay. And it's all said and done. I'll wait. Because we don't want to blow our load just in case things don't happen. Yeah. So we have a few shows coming up. Probably I'll do them three out of three weeks if I had to guess. Schedules permitting, obviously, but I'll be looking forward to talking with those guys. And if you have questions, as always, let me know. It's funny, Len. I think it's a sign that we have a successful media enterprise here that people want to come on the program

as soon as they find out what we're doing. And I can't stay away, I love the Wednesday shows. I thought I'd be like more, what's the word I'm looking for? I would enjoy a little more my free Wednesdays, but I gotta be honest, there's just an interview size hole in my heart that I gotta to fill. And so I'm looking forward to talking to these fine folks over the next month or so.

I look forward to seeing and hearing these, especially that one that we have. We didn't really announce yet. Oh man, that's going to, that's going to bang. I have to, I will message him tomorrow. That is a promise that I'm making to you because we've had that info for probably about a month. And thank you Rob for providing it. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, Rob, show it to you. If it gives you any, just to give you a feeling about how big the guest is, I don't ever get stage fright or butterflies talking to guests.

We've had some big, big guests over the years. I think Mark Ripito was a huge guest. Kevin Muir doesn't do any guest appearances except for money talks. Basically came to do our show. But this one I haven't even reached out yet because I don't know what to say. I got to come up with the with the message and send it tomorrow. And we'll try and plan something for the. Yeah. For people are just wondering what the fuck it is.

It's not Bitcoin related. Maybe maybe you could stretch it to make it fit. It's very important to Canadians, though. Some of the stuff that's going on in Canada now, this person will have not only great perspective on sort of the current state of affairs, but also will be able to shed light on the origin of some of these things that are floating around now in Canadian politics because this person was there, was part of the origin of a lot of these things. So looking forward to that in a

big, big way. And by the way, Len, I've not heard him on any other podcasts, no sister podcasts, certainly not a Bitcoin podcast. He has not been on Looney Hour or any of these other big Canadian ones. So I'm looking forward to maybe getting him into the podcast circuit and he can do us first. Yeah. Anything else that you want to chop off your list before we go to boost? No, I think we're good. Let's roll into the booster. Okay. The boosts are, there's only three that we have that are notable to read.

Rod Palmer from the Bugle News 1000 Sats. I hope you're doing your 40 hours per week. He says, quit hating on paper Bitcoin. Don't let paper Bitcoin make you grumpy. Did you see that he's asking on Twitter which paper Bitcoiners should go on Joe Rogan? Is there a list? Does he provide or no? I mean, I'm sure we could come up with one here if he doesn't have one, but I thought it was funny all the same. There's like this gap now between real Bitcoiners and paper Bitcoiners.

I think that the definition of paper Bitcoin, it varies per individual as well. Yeah, I agree. It's a great widely failure. So yeah, anyways, Jer 2000 stats, pour one out for the guy with the AI mistress. That was a great story last week, but that guy proposed. Why do we have to pour one out for him? Did he die? I don't think he died. Well, no, congratulations to him, right? Like he achieved it. Pour one out to congratulate somebody.

Well, I got 2000 sats. I got to do something with this. And Jared does a second 2000 satter. He says, I appreciate you both. And we appreciate you as well, Mr. Jared. Thank you very, very much. Jared's been active in the discord. I've been trying to hang out in there more. And so I saw, I saw Jared, uh, leaving some comments. If you haven't in the discord. I've been trying to hang out in there more and so I saw I saw Jare Leaving some comments if you haven't joined the discord yet go to the video description and join It is the most centralized thing that we do on this show and it's a great community I have to say it, you know when I go in there, I always see pretty high-level discussions some banter one of the things I like about doing the program is that we have a really good base of I like about doing the program is that we have a really good base of listeners and viewers and people who care about Bitcoin and I think they care about each

other too and so there's good back and forth in there people trying to help out and support and shoot down bad arguments and steel man you know bad arguments to sort of strengthen everyone's viewpoint on different things related to Bitcoin and I don't think you see that in a lot of places. If I go to the Simply chat, you guys know I have a hard on for making fun of Simply. You don't see much good content there. You can go to other comments sections, other videos,

and you don't see it, but in our Discord, you do see it. And I'm grateful for that and grateful for you guys for making that happen. And Boom Dust is asking, what's better, Paper Mario or paper Bitcoin? I've never played paper Mario. The first one on the NES, sorry SNES is fantastic. The second one is it better than Mario RPG

is the big question, right? Cause I think they're sister games. Yeah, it's a good game. That's all I gotta say. And the second one that came on the switch, not so good. And there was a sequel to that or follow up to that. I didn't play it. So I don't know. And Switch 2, I'm happy to say I don't have it, still don't have it. And I choose not to have it. By the way, some announcements today from Nintendo that price is changing due to market conditions in the next lowering. I doubt it. I doubt it. I'm

raising. That's my guess. People are complaining about how high it is somebody posted in 2017 when the switch came out it cost 0.24 Bitcoin what a quarter of a Bitcoin. Oh my god, I imagine these Yeah, so if you I suppose any of us you have I suppose any of us who have it, you know to have that opportunity cost A bear now so that's what like 25k give or take point would make a little more actually. So that's American, right? So yeah, USD I'm talking. It's so incredible. So yeah, stories. Let's do it. Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. I like this one. I think it's a good story. Yeah. I mean, you're

going to have thoughts that are, okay. All right. I mean, we just keep raising our voice. Maybe we'll see. Initially, like, come on, just by the name alone, you think these guys are no coiners, right? Ready Maeve, ready Mac. I mean, everyone remembers these guys what these guys are famous for these days. You know, no, but you know what? They may be pre coincoiners. Right? After hearing this announcement, it's potential, I guess. For sure.

Right. And this is because the US director of federal housing, FHFA, came out and said that he ordered those two agencies to accept and to learn or to go through the process to start preparing the businesses to count cryptocurrency as an asset for mortgage because right now obviously people that have Bitcoin or a shit coin they can't use that when applying for a mortgage in the US so they just are using whatever other assets they have as a potential way to get approved and this is a new way to potentially use your Bitcoin is let's be honest, the price of Bitcoin

has gone up quite a bit. And so the prices of houses, at least up until maybe this year, it seems that this year, at least in Canada, the price has kind of stabilized and maybe gone down. But nonetheless, houses for the most part have basically gone out of reach for a lot of people out there.

And Bitcoiners might have an opportunity to get in if they want to. They say that they're gonna be using Bitcoin holdings as a loan assessment. So like I mentioned, as something that could be potentially used to buy a or a larger home, right? Even people that qualify maybe qualifies them for a larger home. From what I could tell, the Bitcoin will need to be held and stored by a US regulated centralized exchange.

It's Coinbase. They're going to want it to be in Coinbase. Yeah. Could be Fidelity. It could be Coinbase. It's going to be the same old folks, but really it's just, it's not your keys, not your coin. The keys are going to not be held by the customer. And it makes sense.

If they're going to lend money against Bitcoin that you own, they want to have some ownership of that or some control over the Bitcoin, just like any other asset, I would imagine. But the one question that comes to mind, because the price of Bitcoin, if you look at it and if you've been around it for long enough period of time, it fluctuates up and down quite a bit. And LTV, the loan to value, that's the one that I think is going to be really interesting to see, especially for people that if ever they want to opt to use this and they do it at a peak when the price of Bitcoin is near or at its

peak and it starts to drive down, which inevitably that's going to happen. What happens at that particular moment? Are they then forced to pony up more to keep the LTV in check probably or maybe liquidate the house, which is potentially another option, right? Because let's be honest, Bitcoin does go down to which respect to USD. And is this a good or bad thing? I mean, it's I would say if anything, it's neutral at worst, worse because people have to live somewhere either they rent or they buy.

You can't live in your Bitcoin. You have to live somewhere. So giving people an option to potentially buy a home, I like it. You're not forced to do it. Just give them an option to do it if they wanted to use it all the more power. And I do hope that if this is done, there is no capital gains whatsoever that is going to be applied. It's a big question. Big, big question. Yeah. And but if it's just using it as a loan, why would it be capital gains? I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah.

Yeah. But if there is like, come on, that's, it's the step in the wrong direction. But if there isn't, then I mean, I'm looking at this again, like I say, at worst, this is neutral. It gives you as a Bitcoin or another option to look at potential home ownership. You want to do it all the more powerful powerful to you. If you don't want to do it, all the more power to you. You have options ahead of you. Yeah. Okay. A couple of things to start with. Boomer is making a good point that we should talk about how it looks to me in the, you know, in the tweet from the US government. I can't remember that guy's name. Puehl or Pui or something like that. It's just one name he gives on his account. Yeah, he's got a good handle.

Exactly. Exactly. That's up by the way. That's something common between your generation and my generation is that anytime anyone talks about someone with one name, share is the only name that we go to. I went to Madonna too. Madonna might also work. Yeah, I'm not sure what her last name is, but the bank will be sure if Madonna uses Bitcoin because she will have to KYC. So you can potentially use the Bitcoin at the time you get the mortgage and then move it back to self custody after that. I actually don't know that that's how the law will materialize because there's obviously still some wiggle room here.

This is not a hard and fast piece of legislation, at least not yet. So that's one big thing. I tweeted when this happened and I stand by this, I've had some private agreement from people in the real estate space that the problem government is having now is that real estate has become non-viable for a big chunk of the population. That's happening in America too. I know a lot of Canadians think about our market and the sort of blow off top that we're in or the bubble that we're in. Australia, same thing.

Europe, a lot of places, same thing. In America, there's a similar issue, though not quite as pronounced, at least not yet. To keep real estate viable, you have to have buyers. Boomers need to be able to get out of those assets to continue living, to not end up on the street, to you know, XYZ. You guys get the picture. We've talked about this a million times.

So how do you do that? Well, there's no jobs. There's not a lot of opportunities to add to your income if you're a university grad. There's certainly not a lot of opportunities to get into like let's say a relationship with a romantic partner and do this marriage at an all-time low or a near all-time low. So what do you do? I think the answer is you have to start looking at what probably the bank still thinks is like an alternative asset to add value to like you said the LTV ratio. And so to do that you said, the LTV ratio.

And so to do that, you have to use stuff like Bitcoin. And by the way, it's not just Bitcoin, it's all kinds of other stuff, it looks like. I don't think they're gonna go down the line to a fart coin and ontology coin or whatever, shout to 2017, but I do think you're gonna see stuff like Ethereum, Solana, other quote unquote utility tokens or their kin become part of that strategy.

Now there's good and bad to this. The good is that, or the bad, we'll start with the bad. The bad is that this is going to continue to lump Bitcoin in with stuff that's obviously garbage that Bitcoiners know is garbage. And by the way, Len, I think that banks know is garbage too. They just want to move those homes, right? They wanna get those loans, move those homes, et cetera, et cetera.

The good thing though, is this adds to the slow money. It's gonna be hard for people to sell their Bitcoin. Certainly if banks end up custodying it, or you have it with a third party custodian, there's gonna be a push by, I would guess the US legislators or banks or Fannie and Freddie to say, look, if you have 0.5 Bitcoin you want to use as part of your LTV, then we got to be able to have access to half of that at all times.

And that means it stays on the exchange. It's not sold. It's not up for loans or yield or whatever. It's locked somewhere that we can get it and that it can't be just gotten rid of on a whim because you want to buy You know first edition chattelish Charles art or whatever, right? So Good for the slow money argument On the whole though Should people be selling Bitcoin to buy homes?

You know, this is a sell. I agree. I agree. Let's call it locking Bitcoin to buy homes. Why don't we compare the two? We'll compare this locking strategy or using it as LTV to selling Bitcoin to buy a home. I actually don't have a beef people selling Bitcoin to buy a home. If you're buying a primary residence, you've been huddling for a few years. You've seen significant price appreciation. Your wife is, you know know trying to get a home, you want to start a family. I don't have any beef with this. Guys like Adam O'Brien and others are like on Twitter trying to like poke and rage bait like we got to talk about this, why would you buy a house blah blah blah, you should be

renting. Like I don't see it that way. There's a case be made for those things. I place my, I would say there's more value in having the steady owned home. I realize there's stuff about mortgages and how much do you really own, blah, blah, blah. You're at the mercy of the government for taxes and this and that. At the end of the day, you're for sure more likely

to have variability and volatility in your situation if you rent and if you own. There's no doubt about that, okay? So let's just stop that conversation there. I'm okay with that. I also think Len that I'm okay with doing the loan, loan to value sort of parking with a custodian to get a mortgage as well. I think that's fine. I don't think people should be doing this for speculative properties. You know, if you had done this, for example, in Toronto over the last two years, how would you be feeling right now? Probably not great.

If you want to do well with Bitcoin and use it as collateral for what ultimately is a loan, wouldn't you be happier going to someone like Letin and getting USDT for Bitcoin or the BTC2X loans or similar products from other services. Because I mean, I'm not sure, I think real estate is going to perform well, especially single family separated dwellings in nice neighborhoods, nice communities. I think it's going to be fine, but it's not going to outperform Bitcoin. So if you're speculating, I still don't think you wind up in this product. I'll just say one last thing. The slope to not custodying your Bitcoin continues

to get slipperier and slipperier. Now you're talking about, okay, well, if you want to own your home and use it as a part of your mortgage application, you well if you want to own your home and use it as a part of your mortgage application, you know, we want to see it, you have to KYC that and we may at some point want to hold it, which I think is probably going to be the case. I can't imagine they're just going to say show us and then take it back. I don't believe that's going to work. That continues to be a problem. If they start saying you can use ETF positions as collateral for a mortgage, that's I think another problem.

Someone tweeted out today or yesterday and I agree with it, that this is going to be the first bull market where self-custody declines as a percentage of total Bitcoin holdings and user behaviors, let's say. And this is going to be part of that. So I look at all this and I think, yeah, there's a lot of good here. And I think there's a lot of necessity here by governments to keep real estate viable. You have to let people use new assets because otherwise they're not going to be able to help you get your boomers out of trouble.

But there's a lot of bad too. There's a lot of stuff here that's a little bit concerning. And as I said, you know, directionally, does this make self custody more likely down the road or less likely down the road? I think probably less likely is the answer. I would argue it doesn't change it. Okay, tell me, tell me why. Tell me why.

If you have Bitcoin, if it's in self custody, if it's never been KYC'd before, does it really change anything if they implement this or not? No, but if you want to buy a house, right? For buying a house, it's one thing. That's a pretty good, that's a pretty good carrot to dangle in front of a lot of people, especially people younger than me, you know? Like that's a hard thing. It sure is. Yeah. It sure is. But taking away that, if you have other means to buy the house or if you choose to perhaps Rent and you don't need to use Bitcoin in order to do that Then what you have is in terms of Bitcoin and your keys is gonna remain with you

And if it's kind of KYC free it will never be exposed as long as you don't want it to be exposed It doesn't change anything and you could keep that for as long as you want There's no there's no no reason to long as you want. There's no reason to out yourself. Right? There's no reason and with respect to like what are they going to accept in terms of digital assets aka shitcoins. New Hampshire may have set a good groundwork on what to do. Remember they said they were I think they were going to accept bitcoin as a treasury asset. I think that's what they added to their reserves and I think they said it and accept Bitcoin as a treasury asset. I think that's what they added to their reserves. And I think they said it and other digital assets, as long as it met a threshold of having

a market cap of $500 billion or higher, which only one does, and that's Bitcoin. ETH number two in terms of market cap. I think it's like 200 billion last I checked. I don't know where to put it. Yeah, but still it's got to go. But like a year from now or two years from when that legislation lands, let's say, is that still going to be the case? And if inflation continues and all these things, it doesn't change necessarily the worth of these assets, but it might change the value in terms of whether or not they're

accepted related to that threshold you just mentioned. It just changes what they're accepting maybe at the onset. What I'm saying is going to be reality then you know then it really is just going to be Bitcoin. And that's what you really want. If I was Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac I wouldn't want to have exposure to a shitcoin that has great volatility because by doing so you're setting yourself up for failure where you're gonna have the client

not able to meet their obligations. And you'll have potentially another 2008 scenario where we had a subprime mortgage and people were simply just walking away and just collapsed the whole market. You don't want that type of thing. Not to say that that would be a repeat of that, but you potentially could have more people walking away, which nobody wants that. Yeah, maybe, maybe. No lender want it. They want to get their money

every month, right? Do you think that lenders consider the Bitcoin price direction or view it the same way that we do, right? Like, yeah, it might be a bumpy road, might be drawdowns, but five years, 10 years from now, you're going to be better off with that than cash or basically anything else. It makes me wonder what they really think about Bitcoin, the asset, because it seems to me like they understand it now. And by the way, the government saying that Fannie and Freddie should take it is, I think, an indictment of government monetary policy. Like we're going to inflate the shit out of everything and Bitcoin is going to go to 500,000. You better start taking it. Yeah.

And you know, the one thing that I've been thinking about a lot is the price of Bitcoin. I like to look at it towards like, what's the price of say a car and let's use a constant like maybe an F-150 or something. So that's what I like to look at. And because obviously if you're using USD as the denominator, that could change drastically depending on the policy of the Federal Reserve. But in terms of hard assets, like not hard, like something that's been produced, I kind of like that maybe barrel of oil, maybe something like that.

I prefer to look at it in other ways. And I think we should all trend towards that rather than using USD as the denominator here, we should use something else as a way to measure the value of Bitcoin over time. Final denominator, right? Has a famous Twitter name, I think once said BTC sessions. Let's talk about what happened. I would, I'd love to. I'd love to. I know you would. And I, given what your comments were at the beginning of the show, I almost wanted to put this first,

but I think the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was pretty damn big, but even BTC Sessions would happen to him. I got a few, you know, he had a YouTube account that was temporarily suspended. That guy has been on YouTube for nine years or so, and somebody did him dirty in YouTube and decided to temporarily suspend his account. They were claiming that he was posting videos that were violating and harmful, violating their harmful and dangerous policy. Harmful and dangerous policy. I'm not sure how they came to his conclusion. His videos are benign. He does a lot of tutorials and shit like

that. Maybe the odd Why We Bullish or the weekly wrap-up, whatever they they do but really like they're benign right like there's just a bunch of people just getting together and just chatting with that side of things but with respect to the tutorials how like how could that be bad? Yeah I don't I don't I don't yeah I don't believe that that's actually what happened. And well, this is the third time he's been suspended. You know this. Yeah So there's something that's now December 2019 and April 2020 December 19. That's a fucked up one December 19. Yeah, he was temporarily suspended because there was a video from 2016 three years earlier that triggered something That triggered a flag

as harmful and dangerous content. Sounds like deja vu to me. The April, 2020, it was down for almost a full or a half a day, and they said it was due to repeated or severe violations. What the fuck is this? Anyways, Ben is now on Rumble and on YouTube still, right? But he's now, he has been on Rumble before.

Yes, he's now expanding his presence over there rumble before, I guess he's now just expanding his presence over there. But really this goes to show you alternatives are best, you know, a zap.stream, Bitcoin TV, some alternatives that allow you to use some sort of decentralized service is probably ideal. And I feel bad for Ben, I like the guy, it's bullshit he has to go through this. And I'm happy that the community rallied behind them. Me too. If you're in our Discord, you already know what I think about this, but I'll repeat it here for people who are not familiar. I should note maybe off the top, okay? Ben is a friend, okay? I talked to Ben, I like Ben. I've had dinner with Ben

He's a good Bitcoiner. Maybe that maybe the greatest Canadian Bitcoiner out there, you know He's made so many great videos that helped people like me for sure I recommend his videos to new Bitcoiners all the time and I I View his stuff as sort of monolithic. I mean if anyone was ever asking about how to use a cold card queue or a mark for or a foundation passport or a ledger or whatever like Ben's got you. When you know we recommended Ben's videos during that era when ledger exposed their users keys via their recover program. Do you remember that? We recommended Ben's video, how to get yourself off a Ledger to a cold guard. That's, that's, those videos are untouchable in terms of quality and I

think also Len in terms of pure motivations, you know. He's making those videos because he thinks it's important. And knowing Ben a little bit like I do, I think his heart's in the right place, 100%. He's hired some great people over there, Nathan, Gary, Selly, and others, doing the right things for Bitcoiners, I think, on the whole. And the channel itself continues to deliver value. Now I disagree with Ben

going this Luke Mitchich direction with the daily kind of slop, you know, this changes everything, backflips and this trillion dollar giant, I think that stuff is garbage and it's beneath him, to be honest with you. He doesn't need to do it except for the fact that, you know, he's getting paid a lot of money by Bitcoin well those are in their public disclosures I think it's about six grand or seven grand USD a month with 12 grand upfront I believe you can go look at that yourself if you want so the plays have to come in and I appreciate that you know he's you know employed or at least considered employing or is

employing tactics that came from Luke in this sort of thumbnail slash SEO, quote unquote hacking stuff, that I have, you know, I have to be honest with you, I don't think is actually legit. The idea that you can pay someone $1,000 a month and pump your channel to a million plays seems unlikely to me,

mostly because if it was that easy then these people would all be doing it. And if it was that lucrative, then no one will be selling it. But this is a story for a different day. I don't think it's that difficult to figure this out. My concern for Ben is that there's an algorithm on the YouTube side that is for sure tripping

on his channel and other channels related to this thumbnail SEO stuff. Happened to Simply a little while ago, same thing. It's harmful content. content happened to him now and happened him in the past and it's happening to other channels that are employing this this strategy and You know, I don't have any evidence for this just speculation on my part but I think a lot of people are starting to connect the dots between the same titles the same thumbnails the same, you know, presumably SEO tags or

whatever else and they're looking at this and saying yeah, like there's a connection here between this strategy and being demonetized, this strategy and being banned unfairly. And I think the YouTube algo, the idea that YouTube has an algorithm that will trip on your channel once but then never again, even if they say that error was made on their side of things, I think that's probably pretty easy to disprove. I think once the algo trips on your channel once, the likelihood that it trips on it again is pretty high. And I think that because the ads related to the plays expect a certain level of click-through. So if you're

advertising for t-shirts on a video that gets 15,000 views and you don't sell any t-shirts, well there's data out there that will basically describe to you how no matter what kind of t-shirt you're selling at 15,000 views you should sell 10 shirts or whatever. And so you pay the dollar amount that's equal to 8 shirts. You know, you do the math for yourself amount that's equal to eight shirts, you know? You do the math for yourself, but that's basically the idea. This is such an exact science at this point, and YouTube's advertisers have access to this, and I'm sure consider this. YouTube for sure considers it, and I think the creators should consider it too. We have chosen not to go that direction, although people who have been

adjacent to our show have offered, we'll do a YouTube channel for X amount of dollars every month, we'll do your shorts for X amount of dollars. I don't care that much. The shorts are done by AI. I don't look at them. I use them as top of funnel. If people like them, great. If they don't, I don't give a fuck. It doesn't matter to me because I'm not going to go this direction of selectively editing things and brain rotting our content to the point that it's just a dopamine slide and hopefully I get some retard clicking subscribe on my channel. I don't want retards. I don't want that. And I know you don't want it either. And I look at some of these channels, Ben's included unfortunately at this point,

and I say to myself, why go this direction to try and get the sort of lowest common denominator to watch your stuff at basically any cost? The only messages I got from Bitcoiners that you know and I know and everyone in the chat knows about this issue because we talked about it including guys like Gandalf by the way who are looking at this and going like there's clearly a problem here with these thumbnails and all this

stuff and I think everybody realizes this now and you know I hope Gandalf doesn't get mad that I said his name I'm sure he won't care but he's a guy who's also trying to do content and he's looking at this and going, it doesn't add up. You can't have a hundred thousand idiots with no money, no loyalty, who are just scrolling the YouTube feed, looking for the shiniest photo and the get rich quick scheme, patronizing your channel because they won't patronize your sponsors. Now I'm not going to speak for bull Bitcoin for EasyDNS, but those guys have been with us

for years now. And while it is true that there are probably down times for the podcast and down times for the sponsors, I think what I appreciate about them the most is that they're not worried about plays. They're not worried about how much slop we can put out. They're not worried about plays. They're not worried about how much slop we can put out. They're not worried about can we do three episodes, four episodes a week. They didn't even care that we stopped doing the Wednesday shows for the summer. I think the reason for that is because the content is at the very least well researched and considered before it's shared and I'm not sure that

other channels are doing the same thing. And I don't think that these are good for Bitcoin and I don't think that Ben should do it, but he's in a tough spot He's doing this as a full-time job Guys like Green Candle trying to do this as a full-time job Brandon made a video nuking his old employer I don't know if it's still on his channel But like the idea that you're gonna get fired from a job and then toast your employer in a 30-minute tell-all while also Presumably paying a guy to make thumbnails for you and trying to get plays is It's a bad idea and I'll just close with one thing

You know you pointed this out to me and it's a great bit of data If you go to social blade and type in our channel you can see how much quote unquote money CBP makes from YouTube plays we make nothing from YouTube all the money we make is because we make content that we think you guys will like and we just hope that you use the sponsors we hope that the sponsors appreciate being attached to Len and I when someone looks up Len and I's videos when someone looks up our stuff it's videos, when someone looks up our stuff, it's good content. And it's not slop. It's not brain rot. But we don't make anything from YouTube.

In fact, the Social Blade estimate is a 4X overestimate what we actually make. It's pennies. It's a few bucks a month, if that. And that's before taxes, before everything else. You can go to these other channels and see what they make on plays and decide whether or not it's actually the plays that matter. I think it's the sponsors still that matter and I hope that YouTube sets right this backwards incentive structure that they've allowed to fester now for years where people are clearly buying bots, buying plays, buying comments. I just watched a video the other day. I won't mention the channel, but the video had like 600 plays and one of the comments had 400 likes about a fake AI token. And those comments have since been deleted. But like the thing is that this

is obviously a house of cards and playing in that house of cards will yield you a certain outcome and that outcome is not a positive one. And some of these guys have no choice but to go this direction. Ben is not one of them. Ben can go back to making tutorials, doing why are we bullish, wants to do it twice a week. Fuck, I would do why are we bullish twice a week

if I was him, why not? It's great content. You get a lot of good people and and the discussion is honest. It's not that's going to be hard to do. Maybe the scheduling would be difficult for sure. He's got a wife and kids and he's traveling a lot for conferences. I get it. I get it. And that's why I keep saying backing out. It's like he's in a very person for golf for sure. He's in a very, very difficult spot. I appreciate that. But there's clearly a problem with this thumbnails, SEO, pay me for views, incentive structure.

The views are not real. YouTube is for sure tripping. Their algorithm is for sure tripping on these channels. And you're gonna see this more and more, think we'll see if I'm right I've said this a bunch on our show I've said this in other programs as well I think there's something to this I don't know exactly what it is but I would be keeping an eye on this if I was just sort of a you know an impartial third-party observer for sure if you already haven't done so and you have a rumble account, I suggest get one.

Get one. Do that support Ben sign up to his 100% because even if Ben even if Ben goes, you know, pure as the Pope's cloth now, the YouTube algorithm is still going to be looking at that. I don't know. He's not going to forget these infractions. No doubt about that. Well, I'm just because I like the guy like a virtue. Blow him now. He's been really nice to doubt about that. Well, I'm just because I like the guy like a virtue. You blow him now. He's been really nice to me. Yeah. And every time he's nice to everybody.

He's just he's a really nice guy, man. Yeah. Ben's a great guy. Great guy. And I don't want to see him go through all this bullshit again. So that's why if anybody out there that hasn't if you haven't signed up to his YouTube, what the fuck you doing? Sign up right away. Should be watching it. But certainly is rumble to just just just do that did the and I'm

hopeful that the rumble story yo talks to Ben because he I think he did reach out to him on Twitter right and I would like to see that happen I'd like to see that guy on why are we bullish to be honest with you I don't know when that's gonna happen but if I had to guess I would say before the end of the summer anything else you wanted to discuss because Because I know this is a topic that... No, that's fine. Okay. Let's talk about Ledger Nano S. Interesting.

Interesting. Yeah. A lot of people that watch this show probably have one of those things. I have one. I don't know where it is, but I have one. I had one too. I ceremoniously burned it. I set it on fire.

A year and a half ago, two years ago. Is there a video of that? No, I didn't. Fuck. I was. I got to call Luke and make a thumbnail for us. I think that. I got to go look for the ashes.

See if I could find it next to the guy's hard drive with the Bitcoin on it. But I had no idea the Ledger Nano S, particularly that one, was officially retired in 2022. Did you know that? I did not know. It's interesting because as you mentioned it. What does retired mean by the way? So they're phasing out support of it.

They're gradually phasing out support for this. Which means potentially if there's any sort of thing that needs to be updated because there's a security breach or whatever, security issue, you may not get it in the future. This device sold tons. Came out 2016, so it's been around for a number of years. It reminds me of, in a way, of the S9, the Antminer S9. And so 2022 is when this is starting to get phased out. And

the reason for that is, like everything, it's money and it's shitcoins that are driving this, because the amount of memory that's on a Ledger Nano S is 320k. Now, if you add up having Ledger OS on the device and you have the ability to transact in Bitcoin because every time you have to do something you have to transact and that you have to load up particular software then it's getting close to being maxed out and then somebody if they want to hypothetically shitcoin and get ETH you're basically tapped out at that point. So in order to enable you're basically tapped out at that point. So in order to enable customers to use all the greatest with shitcoins and stuff like that, they recommend using the Nano S plus and that model is available and getting all the support you need and everything. Either way, stay personally, I would

say stay away from this. I prefer a cold card for my signing device or there's some other ones that may be just as good. I'm not sure off the top of my head, but cold card for my signing device or there's some other ones that maybe just as good I'm not sure off the top my head but cold card certainly it's one that I use and the one that I could recommend to people As long as you do it, right? It's the best or one of the best Now ledger hell no, I just goes to show you though like these old devices. It's too bad They're being phased out and it's because of shit coins, right? Like there's a lot of these going around how many people are still probably using it with the ledger live app? Where the fuck it is? Forget the name of the app. And I'll never there was a phone app to one of the guys

we worked with had the app. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Think about how much information gets sent back to ledger. They'd now knows your IP address they now know all your transactions history and then of course how much Bitcoin you have in your balance like that's information you certainly don't want to get sent back to ledger live is a piece of shit so ledger is a piece of shit use something else that's better but I just want to say for people out there that still use the ledger nano s this thing is been officially retired in 2022 and they're slowly phasing out support for this. So transition to something else that's better. Cold card,

I would recommend, but there could be others that are really good too. Cold card is good. Some people like Bickey. You know what I'm curious about Len? Are they phasing this out because of the desire for people to have extra memory for the extra coins or are they phasing them out because the hardware is starting to fail? Remember that thing just had a tiny little screen like the LCD screen it was like yeah that was this one that was failing yeah um so somebody is asking if this was the one being sold at uh at best buy boomers asking i think it was it was one of them they they sold a few models at best Buy, if I remember correctly. They may still sell them.

You just posted today. Yeah, see? On Bitcoin. There you go. So yeah, but it's not that one in particular. I see Ledger Flex, Ledger Nano X. Ledger Flex? I see that. I don't know what that is. Ledger Nano S Plus. Whatever happened to that?

Ledger Stacks. Ledger Stacks one, that big, yeah, the big screen. Talking about not being able to hide your crypto, the thing is like just bright, giant iPod touch screen. Like, yeah, that's gonna be good. The thieves will never know. They'll never know. The hat.

We already had the hat? The fucking ledger. Tie your Ledger Stacks to your fucking bucket hat. No one will know. No one will know. Travel to France today. You'll be fine And you'll know for sure for sure who your friends your enemies are at that particular moment for sure

This is five dollar wrench attacks are gonna be happening left and right go on to some waste It'll be fucking by the time you get to your stop. God you're done ah Ant miner we talked I just mentioned them quickly the s9. We haven't talked about these for some time. The S23 Hydro that was announced very, very recently. Do you remember how hyped we were when we found out that you could put miners into olive oil or whatever these guys were doing years ago when we first started the show? They were like talking to my electric fluid. I know, I know. But like, it was like mind numbing, at least to me, the first time we heard that, like, oh my God, you guys are dunking these things in fluid to mine cooler.

That's so neat. How times have changed, how times have changed. There was something else that I came across. Was it a computer? I can't remember that it wasn't just using like, like a water to cool it, like just using a water jacket, but it was dunking. I forget what it was.

Anyways, anyway, the s23 hydro that just came out the specs on it are fucking crazy 580 tera hash crazy per second think about how much your oh my little bit X does here and comparison right it's like one tera hash one and a half terahash. What the fuck is 580 tera 9.5 joules per terahash. That's the efficiency of it, which is incredibly efficient. The consumption is about 550 watts. It's not much. It's not much but by comparison like your central AC unit Uses roughly the same amount of electricity like your central AC unit uses roughly the same amount of electricity.

So now it comes to the point where what do you do? Do you heat, sorry, do you cool your home in the summertime? Or do you power up one of these? It's a no brainer to me. You can just sweat it out. We talked about this on Accessive Easy, I think, at least in passing, or maybe we talked about it off air. You can actually make your AC unit in your home more efficient by using a Merv 8 filter instead of a Merv 11 or 12 filter, which I only found out like two weeks ago.

Yeah, I should have. No, no, you got the way around. You want to get to a higher number? No, no. Most residential HVAC setups cannot really operate well above Merv8. So maybe run the miner and just get a worse air filter. Try that. I'd say fuck the AC, get a fan and just run this 24-7. But either way, see, to me, the answer is simple.

I'm just going fucking mind this but the ROI on this it's like you know if you're gonna buy it one of these you're still you're still a solo miner yeah you're still you yeah anyways it's the roughly one to four years the ROI depending on electricity cost which you know that's today's hash rate who the hell knows what's gonna happen tomorrow with the hash rate number go up. And if people want to get this really, it's going to cost you a ton 15k USD, give or take. And I would suggest if you want to mine, just do the small hobby stuff like a bid ax like that way, not much investment, not

much noise, not much heat, not much, you know, it's just a lot of fun, very little pain, and you can participate and go from there. But even if anybody out there doesn't want this, the deliveries are expected to take place first quarter of 2026. Do you have to dunk dunk 15k? That is tough. Yeah. Yeah, but these units are fucking. What's a what industrial miners are going for these things? Any idea? I don't know if any, because they're huge units and it because it's the hydro, it's all encompassed, right? Are we going to do?

Okay, so I have to cut you off. Trip is in the chat. TripBase is what's going on with the ECB. Are we going to talk about this? I put it in the title of the show. You know what? Fuck the Bitcoin segment. We're going to go right to the rest of the stories. Do you think this is in the notables? Okay. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Sure. Sure. Okay. Yeah. Stick with us. If you're on audio, if you're on video, you guys know what to do and we'll either see you in a second or see you tomorrow and take care of yourself either way. Don't make shitty thumbnails.