The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The Canadian Bitcoin Conference w/ Dan Carlin | The CBP

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESThis week we welcome Dan Carlin, organizer of the Canadian Bitcoin Conference for a chat about the character of our conference, the rationale for his content decisions, some of the names to look forward to in 2025 and more.Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - https://easydns.com EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.256Heat - https://256heat.com/ GET PAID TO HEAT YOUR HOUSE with 256 Heat. Whether you're heating your home, garage, office or rental, use a 256Heat unit and get paid MORE BITCOIN than it costs to run the unit. Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.

They're really treating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well.

Friends and enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Lendinjoie. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and Easy DNS.

The media is feeding us. Slop. It doesn't matter what topics discussed. Quality entertainment and information you can trust. That's being planned or at least discussed. You know, we're not going to allow the information you can trust. Send the guys some value. Boost them with some stats. Bitcoin is the scarcity asset. I mean, it's just a fact. Geopolitical national down to the local cloud. Friends and enemies, welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. You know what time it is, 7 o'clock. You know my name. Boomer in the chat, always saying I'm the most handsome guy. You know, he's also saying I'm the second most handsome tonight.

I'm joined by Dan Carlin. Dan Carlin is a man who took it upon himself a few years ago to start the Canadian Bitcoin Conference. I don't know why you would do something like that. Having MC'd the first year and coming back to MC this year, I will just say, I'll leave Dan to tell you the dirty details. But I will just say that there's a lot going on to plan a conference of that size, a conference that's growing.

And as we'll discuss, a conference. that stays away from slop. There's no slop, okay? We don't want slop. We refuse the slop. We are anti-slop on this channel. Dan and his wife, Manuela, and their team setting up the conference, know that. We're going to talk a bit about some of the decisions they've made in the past. What's going on this year? Blah, blah, blah. You guys know the deal. And we'll have a promo code at some point. And I will also say that if Dan does well tonight, I want him to co-host a show on Monday because I am getting ACL surgery on Monday. So I will not be around for Len. And Dan is in the back there.

He's kind of listening, half listening, half watching. He's worried he's not going to do well. I think he's going to do great. As always, guys, the sponsors. Easy DNS. The best place for you to host content, host a website, port a website, buy a domain. Mark is your friendly neighborhood registrar. Friendly neighborhood registrars mean a lot now.

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the background right now. You can't hear it. That's a beautiful thing. It looks nice. It sounds nice. And Twan, the owner over a 256 heat, has taken care to do little things. Like, for example, do you realize that the Bitcoin mining noise is really more about frequency than about decibels? That loud hiss is annoying. But thanks to Twan's ingenuity and engineering, he's calmed down to a nice white noise. You can put this next to your wife, help her sleep at night. We like 256 heat. You guys will to go to the website, 256heat.com and pick something up.

And finally, a four sponsor until the conference, the CBC. not that CBC, the Canadian Bitcoin Conference is going to be a banner sponsor of the show because why? Well, I like the conference. I support the conference. I support the people who are behind the conference. And I think Dan's going to give a promo code at some point. I don't know when, but you can buy your ticket through Canadian Bitcoin's podcast and maybe get a couple of bucks off or something.

I have no idea. We'll find out. But you should be at that conference anyway. Like I said, no slop, no nonsense. Plus, the Rialto Theater, very, very nice venue in Montreal was there last year. to do around there, lots to do in the city. And what more of an excuse that you need to visit the beautiful Montreal in October? Couldn't be better. Not too hot, not too cold, but always something to do over there. Dan, good evening. Before the show, we were talking about all the stuff

going on behind you, 20 years of failed projects. I don't really want to talk about all of them, but maybe you can tell me about some of the experiences that you've had over your life that drove you and your lovely wife, too, to, I mean, like, really put the marriage on the rocks probably and start a Bitcoin conference in Canada. We'll get to all that, but first, buddy, what's going on? Thanks for coming. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Can you hear me okay? Yeah, you sound great. You look good. Love the shirt. Didn't even notice when we were talking before, but that's obviously, yeah, I'm partial to those guys. Okay, let's discuss first, okay? I think this is your first time on this show.

Yep. And people who go to the conference will have seen you hustling behind the scenes, you know, navigating narrow staircases at Rialto, navigating subpar conference setting in Toronto a few years ago, trying to get things done, trying to make things work, and really making sure that the gears are grease through the conference. but they don't know much about you probably you know it's one thing to uh to you know be appreciative of somebody's putting on a conference like that i know a lot of people are

but tell people who know what your story bitcoin professional personal otherwise get um get people up to speed with dan yeah um i don't know where to start there's uh there's a lot so obviously people most of the guys and i know boomers on the chat and you and we've we've known each other for a few years now but i'm irish am irish canadian uh moved to canada when i was uh 27 no yeah 25 uh can't or you know being cantered for 15 years um couple of kids manuela's my wife uh she's an event manager she's from quebec um so that's like it's hard to marry a cabacker to be honest but uh you know she'll not she'll not watch this this is okay i can say whatever i want but um yeah uh so yeah we uh we live down around the

Toronto area. My background's engineering. So I kind of did my schooling in Ireland and for mechanical engineering. Worked in a lot of buildings, probably most of you guys know down around, you know, 900 Bay and work for the TTC and worked for, you know, I've talked before about different levels of government like, you know, municipal government and, you know, school boards and things like that. We're in an old building. So that's my background. And in Bitcoin, I actually got into real estate first probably. Like I was, you know, like a lot of people, you know, buying houses, flipping houses, kind of working and doing whatever.

But I was listening to Max Kaiser back in 2013, 2014, and he was talking about silver. And I was buying, you know, silver bars from like Toronto, bullion, you know, down around 500 some young street to those guys and there was like brink trucks coming to my house and stuff you know fucking all these it was only like like it was about two thousand dollars worth silver but they were you know send it in these fucking brink trucks that was kind of that was early days investing outside of like real estate but then you know obviously he started talking with bitcoin and that's where i kind of i started to get into it and you know like everybody's story everybody says oh if you got back into bitcoin back then you're you're minted but you know

I wasn't leveraging massive money into it back then, obviously, you know, like a lot of people, you didn't know what you didn't know or what it was going to be like. And I remember having these discussions with guys up at cottage is going, do you think it's going to go to 300, 300 bucks? Do you think it's going to lie and hungover on a couch sitting going, you know, do you think it's going to hit three grand and, you know, fuck, here we are. Like, you know, 100, what is now, 150 grand, 160 grand? Yeah, you know, close to 160, yeah.

yeah yeah so that's kind of the early doors introduction to bitcoin and and yeah and then and then you know like after that i was uh you know was buying bitcoin or ATM machines i remember actually if you you know uh i don't know if you know ajax too well but there's a there was a convenient like there's some sketchy parts in ajax uh out in durham region and there's one uh convenience store just this like hole in the wall kind of thing like with guard real on and you know really rough on harwood avenue and i was buying bitcoin out of an ATM machine there like sticking a hundred dollar bills into and uh you know and that's that's how i was getting giving my bitcoin and then you know moved on to like um who's the the other one bip buy or some one of

these other ones of coins yeah and uh i'm moving on to those and cracking and opening all these different accounts and yeah just like like a lot of bit miners you're just it's it's experimentation and And then, you know, like trial and error and figuring out what, you know, how you get things done. And yeah. Before we get into the conference, I'm always curious to know because I remember what it was like for my wife when I first told her I was buying Bitcoin. We had just bought our first house. We were to say we're a house poor, Dan would be like the understatement of the century. And I was not piling money into Bitcoin, but definitely felt like it at the time.

And so I want to know, like obviously you and Manuel are working on the conference together now. But what did she think when you told her, listen, the Brink's truck. ain't going to come anymore, but I am going to be spending some time cruising into Durham to hit this ATM. It's like, it's like almost, if I was a woman and I didn't know like what my husband was talking about, I would think he was cheating. I'd be on the Facebook groups. I'd be like, this guy's out there. He's paying pros. He's bringing cash everywhere. I never see the Bitcoin. What did she think when he told her that? Yeah, she was pretty like, yeah, the funny thing was though, hiding cat, like, see when you're doing, when you're working in real estate trying to flip houses

and renovating and doing stuff like that there's a lot of cash going about and uh like i could have been cheating you know uh she wouldn't have known because like they're just like you're going you're taking cash out of you're paying this guy paying that guy you know like she she would be on the wiser but uh you know yeah she she was okay but i think actually one there's one point where uh we we done right in a house and i was like this was 2017 i said look i want I want a Yolo into Bitcoin and, and, uh, and she was like, no, not, not buying it. So it's, uh, yeah, but, but she, I think, uh, you know, the really the penny dropped probably around 2020. I think, you know, see around, around COVID and around the lockdowns and

see when all the other things start to kind of come together. And, uh, and then the price, you know, appreciation. Then she starts to get it. Like, that's, that's when the penny drops that, that you know that it's uh and and you know it's for us it wasn't a um you know it wasn't the main investment we had other investments as well but then you start to go okay here this one takes and and you know when you're in real estate for a little bit too real estate's hard like you know you're you know we were we had rental properties and you know I was going on Christmas Eve to change light bulbs and stuff and we had two kids at home and she's like fuck this is you know i don't know if i want to do this anymore because it is it's a challenge

yeah it's a bit of a grind my dad used to have real estate properties when we were growing up and we used to get messages from people just like the weirdest kinds of odesp recipients and like god knows what else is going on with these guys all sorts of weirdos but not for us to worry about now uh the conference i mean when people think about conferences okay um anyone who listens to this show will know that um i'm pretty friendly to the conference seen. I don't really have a problem with like the Bitcoin Magazine conference. I don't have a problem with BTC Prague or these other conferences that I think do, you know, to be honest, fall victim to a lot of we need money to run the conference. So how are we going to get it? Well,

we'll take it from people who we would otherwise not ask for money from and allow them to share what we think is probably a message that's antithetical to the mission and it's, you know, sort of a deal with the devil, but at least we can put Preston Pish and Michael Saylor on stage, whatever, right? You guys, you know, to me are doing it at the conference thing a little differently. And I'll tell you why. I'm not just saying this. It seems to me that Canadians as a Bitcoin community care a lot more about the Bitcoin mission and ethos than their peers around the world, at least in the first world. I think it's because between the trucker convoy, the extraordinarily long and difficult, these are generous terms, COVID lockdowns

and COVID restrictions and vaccine restrictions and all these things. And because we just can't seem to get our heads on straight when it comes to things like GDP per capita, immigration, employment, R&D, and sort of the role of government in a modern economy, if there is one, we care a lot about this thing. And it's not just a way to get out of like, you know, the Fiat hamster wheel, quit your job, retire, get a yacht, whatever. Like people want that, of course. But I think it's also like, you know, we both have kids and I, you know, I think to myself all the time, like if we get this wrong, I don't want to, I don't want to say to my daughter, yeah, I knew this was never going to work and I never tried. I want to be able to say to her that not only that I think it was going to work, but I was fucking balls deep in this basement every fucking night for years.

Whether there was 10 people listening for the first few months or, you know, thousands after a few years, I never stopped because I believed in it. And I think the Canadian crew feels that way. And to your credit, as the conference has grown, you guys have not strayed from that mission. I look at the topics of discussion over the last few years. You know, I've been introduced to a lot of names for the first time. Guys like Sonny from year one, Joe Barbuto from year one and year two. you guys had a great speaker lineup last year you're always letting guys like Francis who have been there done that and stay true sort of lead the conversation so

let's talk a bit about the conference itself and how you guys I mean how do you think you've grown from year one to now you know you're knocking on the door year three here yeah um from growing from what perspective though like um well let's talk about the we talk about size if you want but i think the thing i would i would ask really that you talk about is how did you manage i think to go from year one where you're in a hotel conference room content is good and you grow the thing to where it's in this beautiful theater in montreal you got a lot of people coming a lot of people interested in speaking there and still there's there's no slop content like i look at the vendors there's no slop i look at the speakers

there's no slop you know tell me a bit about that growth yeah so I guess, you know, I can kind of go through the chronology a little bit and give you a bit of the history. And, yeah, like, we were part of the, you know, the meetup scene out in Durham. It wasn't really much. There was, you know, probably plate. You might be listening, but he was part of organizing some of the meetups out there. And we attended Manuel's background is event managing and event organizing. so she you know obviously you know i was like you say i was balls deep in in bitcoin and i was like

you look this is a good thing to do you know i think uh i think you'd be good at we'd be successful um the first year you know and we we didn't have a massive network like we have no name you know this is probably like one of the first or a few one of a few podcasts that i've done or we put ourselves out there um so we didn't have that network or didn't have a brand or didn't them anything and the first year was really just a shot in the dark we're like right you know we'll pick a venue it was the Chelsea hotel downtown Toronto we uh you know I just started getting on Twitter and getting on telegram and reaching out and going right you know who do I want to talk to and that's kind of how I've um you know tried to to keep this as people that I listen

to or people that I think are genuine or people I think are valuable to Canadians and Canadian Bitcoiners reached out to, look, I think, to be honest, I think a lot of it's luck, like, luck that people respond to you, luck that, you know, that, because, you know, like you're cold calling people like, you know, Greg Foss and Tomer and Brad Mills and Dave Bradley and, you know, crypto mags and all these people like, so, who else do we have there? Yeah, even Francis and all those guys. And even bull Bitcoin, they took a massive, you know, chance because you know you're you're they're saying they'll sponsor but they they don't know what

they're sponsoring because they don't know you like you have to build those relationships so uh you know we miraculously pulled off the first year we had you know about a couple hundred people um the big risk for us was you know and where we were kind of shitting ourselves was you know about two months out and and most of the ticket sales are in like the last two to three weeks so we were sitting about 50 grand in the hole because the venue like the venue downtown Toronto in that Chelsea Hotel expensive and they ding you for all the AV so you're sitting like you know the whole AV and venue cost was about 60 grand so we were like oh shit like this this this could go wrong badly but but you know the last couple weeks lots of sales and you know

some sponsors and stuff and you know we didn't end up too bad but um So you kind of, like, it's a long road. So, you know, you start it. And then you go, okay, let's do the next one. And after the stress of the first one, you know, Manuela and we have another person in with us, Nicole, who does a lot of the marketing, they were like, look, I don't know if I want to do this because this is stressful. So we, I convinced them, you know, and the other part that convinced them too was a lot

of the people in the community, like gave such good feedback. and they were you know and that really kind of motivated manuela and Nicole to go ahead and do the next one so did the next one or started gearing up for the next one same thing just um you know reaching out to people you know leveraging connections you know all that kind of stuff we had obviously safety and get guys like cedric youngman lars leparrard you know all these great speakers uh for the next year and it's uh and even that was a little bit more still a bit of a struggle because you're moving and you learn things too

because you know the first year in Toronto it was a like the hotel setting is not a great setting for the bit corners that we want you know that we we you know is our base I guess

or our grassroots movement and the the realto theater just really Manuela found that after you know she does a lot of site selections she found it and it really kind of resonated with a lot of people and that and

you know and price as well makes it much more sustainable for us to be able to grow the conference you know and um be able to reinvest in it so yeah that um that was the second year we added like simply bitcoin to do live streaming and doing you know uh the news desk that they had i talk so much shit about simply bitcoin on this show you know that already reminding reminding people about that yeah no but but listen they did a good like i i you know i i you know i I watched some of the stuff, the news nests, the day that they did a great job. It wasn't slop. They were interviewing speakers.

They were interviewing vendors. They were kind of, you know, taking the pulse of that conference day by day, especially because in that sort of, I don't want to call it a mezzany, but there's an adjacent sort of room there where the vendors were, where speakers were hanging out in between slots, let's say. And yeah, I thought overall you guys did a good job. I want to ask you two things here. So, and then we'll get into your.

I know you're about to get there, but before we do, you mentioned a couple of things I want to touch on. One is the reinvestment in the conference. So I think a lot of people don't realize that, as you mentioned, really it's your, you know, it's your money on the line that someone's credit card has to get charged for all these things. And ticket sales and sponsorships come in slowly. It's a trickle like you mentioned in the last few weeks. You might get a bit of a boom, but you're still on the hook for that money. You know, you guys are doing break-evens. And then maybe last year you make a bit of money you're reinvesting it talk to people about what it means to reinvest in a conference like this year to year yeah like um year to year like the first year

we were we were down uh so we were in the negative um last year we just about broke even um the reinvestment but i mean what we're seeing this year is because you kind of build those relationships with the vendors with you know some of the you know people that are i see on here boomer benjamin those guys like when you build those relationships and they know you're genuine they know you're doing things the right way you know they bring in people they buy tickets early and that allows us to kind of front run then some some marketing so we're you know this year we're invested in like we're trying to bring in a little bit more of the of the white collar crowd i guess you know of the business type um they want to see they're all about like bitcoiners are

all but you know for the most part anonymity and an anonymity um obviously with fucking wrench attacks and whatever you know and that bitcoiners the the the uh the white color crowd are more interested in in networking so you know we're you know going to put some money aside and do like there's networking apps you can use there but they're also in those network working apps, we can get more interactive because they allow for asking questions during the conference. Do you know what I mean? So you can go into that, you can, you know, type of question and, you know, put it up there and it brings up on the screen and then the people can answer it. There's things like that. Yeah, and even, you know, helping with some of the, we have,

we've been talking David Sedanj and some of the guys from Montreal who are, we're going to be putting some budget aside to, you know, do some marketing in Quebec, you know, digital media, that sort of stuff. So really kind of doing the outreach there as well, putting some money to actually join some organizations about, you know, membership, that sort of stuff. There's an organization called CASA, CAA, Canadian Association of Alternative Strategies and Assets. So like getting in with some of those organizations where you can have a voice or you can

have a presence and kind of send. some of those people where, you know, that some of the great people that we have in our network and send them to those meetings where they can try to orange pill some of those people and bring them to the conference as well. So that's the kind of reinvestment that we're trying to do because I think really the challenge for us, you know, I think the challenge overall is moving things forward for, you know, for Bitcoin and Canada. Like that's, it's a massive challenge And it's really fragmented. That's kind of the thing.

It's a big, big ask of a conference organizer to move the Bitcoin mission forward in a country the size of Canada. You guys, I mean, for the attendees, it's, you know, four days of fun, speakers, meeting people that they've seen online, met on Twitter, whatever.

But for you guys, it's, I think, a year-round, got to be a year-round engagement at this point, right? You might take a few weeks off, but I'm guessing you have a more year-round schedule than like an NFL player probably right i don't think you're going to cabo for a month at the end of the season i think you're probably taking a few weeks off and then getting back on the horn yeah no well it's not too not too bad like the uh shit after the the first like manuel always talks about you know you get the um uh you get the you get the event high i don't know if you know

you can't and you get people to come back from conferences and they're like oh shit that was amazing they get all the energy but like it's it's it's draining like I have a video I saw a video with myself after the after the one last year and I was like oh yeah I'm gonna you know because you know I'm you can't really you can't have a few beers you can't have a bad night sleep because you won't be on the ball so I was like right Sunday I'm you know I'm hitting the beer and I could not like I couldn't move I was absolutely wrecked so uh you like so and then you're kind of coming out of the conference going right that was the energy was unbelievable that was amazing like i want to do this you know i want to grow i want to do this i want to

do more education i want to you know do more events and then you're like all right you know you start to realize like it's like a come down you're like you know the big dress and the big fall so yeah it's uh it's a labor love for sure you got to you got to want it and you got to be willing to uh take that come down because it it comes no matter what you're doing right if you're if you're running a bit of a high after something like that it's not going to last forever Sorry, I was going to say that the time off, like once you kind of get that and you go, right, I don't have to talk to anybody. I don't have to message anybody. We take like three months off and then can I then get it out again. So it's probably eight, nine months. It's not all year. That's still a lot, man. And it's it's something that I think a lot of people would not be willing to undertake, certainly not with no guarantee of return. And it's probably a lot of hassle to. I would guess, but we can get into that in a bit.

You're coming into year three. Year three, big year. You have the rookie season. It goes, okay, you come up down a little bit. Second year, you guys break even. This year, you're back at Rialto. I've seen the speaker's list. I won't share necessarily who's going to be there.

I don't know how much you guys have shared, but it looks great. And I want to know what, you know, sort of creative directional changes you've thought about some of the rationale that went into whether or not to bring somebody back, for example, or leave somebody on the sideline year to year. I know it's difficult that decision for a number of reasons. There's obviously, you know, availability considerations, things like that, but also Bitcoin's culture moves so quickly. Like obviously now you go on the internet and you see nothing but MSTR and Treasury talk. And, you know, Ben Schmidt and I have had this discussion in DMs

and I think we had at dinner last year too and a few other places over the last little while. But it's like, you know, the thing that's important when you're booking the speakers might not be important when the conference happens. And so you guys are thinking about this kind of stuff while you're deciding who to bring in. How are you making those decisions?

How difficult is it? What are you guys looking at and thinking about it? Yeah. We're thinking about it or for me, I mean, it's mostly on me. But I mean, I like to reach out and you've been part of the discussions where I've reached out I've had you and Dee and, you know, Dave Bradley and some of the other guys like that, you know, I'm lucky enough to have a bit of a network now that can give feedback on, you know, who we're going to bring in or what, you know, what we're thinking.

Like, I try to keep it fairly simple and say, look, is this going to be, you know, the question I asked myself is, is this going to be beneficial to Bitcoin in Canada or, and is this going to be beneficial for, um, Canadian? Canadian Bitcoiners. And the thing that I have to keep in mind is, and I find this out kind of when I talk to so many people throughout the year, you know, that those eight, nine months is there's so many different variations of the Canadian Bitcoiner as well, because there's, you know, there's the hard maxi, there's the privacy, you know, expert. There's the guy who wants exposure to, you know, like you say, MSTR or Canadian insecurities or Canadian bitcoin treasury companies or or whatever there's you know uh like yeah there

there's people that are interested in Noster there's people that are interested in and you know freedom tech there's people that are interested in the cultural side of it the you know the ethical side of it whatever so you can't have to to put your hat on and think right you know are we going to kind of like to be able to give something to everybody you know how do you decide I mean, this is the, maybe not the first year, but it's the first year you've explicitly said it, at least to me, that you're going to try and balance the suits and the plebs in the same room. I don't, this is not an enviable task, in my opinion. I look at even on, like, when we talk on Monday nights about some of the stuff going on with MSTR and some of the Treasury companies and, you know, the sort of trad-fi, let's call it reluctance to jump into Bitcoin or to at least give us our props that we were right for the last decade. decade plus, I don't know how the suits are going to react to being in a room with a guy

whose name tag says, you know, private pleb or plate liquor or boom dust or, you know, when that guy's like, you know, Todd Reynolds fidelity or, you know what I mean? Like what is the, what is the, what is the line, the ticket line going to look like? What is the, what is the urinal row going to look like? And how are you guys going to figure out, like, how to appease both audiences. Are you willing to say that the suits are going to have to adapt a little bit? Or is this going to be a true like 50-50 yin-yang and you're just going to hope for the best? This is a punt.

This is a last-minute punt, I guess. No, you're right. It's a bit of a 50-50. To be honest, I have no idea how this is going to go. But, you know, I think I'm lucky enough. that I can, I, I've had a bit of a foot in both, you know, worlds, kind of like a lot of people where, you know, you have, you know, you have, like you say, plate liquor on, you know, on the, is going to meetups and burning down the government.

He's literally going to meetups and talking about Bitcoin and how he only eats like eggs and ground beef. And so you got this guy on one side and you got like, you know, Mr. Prudential equity's broker on the other side. Good luck. Yeah. So, and that's, you know, that's the yin and yang. But, I mean, the thing is for a lot of, actually our attendees and a lot of people probably that are even in some of the chat right now that are listening, you know, they're looking at the suits.

They're looking at the MSTRs. They're looking at the strives. They're looking at Jeff Walton. They're looking at, you know, sailor. Like, they're bitcoins at heart, but they want exposure to those. things as well um so you know that's you have to be respectful of that in terms of mixing them i don't know i really don't but well do you know i think here's here's one thing actually i'll say is do you remember joel lightpoint last year yeah yeah of course right so mp for people

who don't know from quebec he was uh he was outspoken about the covid and divisiveness of the uh trudo liberals he's liberal he's liberal himself I should know. Yeah, so he, he was, he was brilliant. And, like, he, you know, he's not, he's not the white collar tradfai guy. You know, he's on the politician's side. But it's kind of the same, you know, it's the same kind of cut from the same cloth, I guess. You know, going into corporate boardrooms and, you know, talking very nice to each other.

And, you know, not used to, like you say, you know, guys with pseudonyms on their name tags or whatever. but he did a great job I think he you know his speech was unbelievable he you know he came in was really excited I heard some feeling like I've reached out to him this year

and to see if he would come back and do something similar but he's I guess he's Karen he's right hand man now so I don't know if he wants to kind of put himself in that position and he's declined us he said just straight out early on this year that he wasn't going to come

but I've also heard some things last year that he may have got a bad experience at the conference last year I don't know if someone gave him you know it was giving him shit or you know it was rude to him or whatever but no I don't know how true that is but that that's kind of some of the

feedback so like and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and the thing is if for me if we put a bunch of these guys up on stage even the treasury companies and they get you know they have

a bad experience or they're you know blindsided or embarrassed or whatever they don't want that either so we got to kind of try and manage that where we don't do that to somebody on a personal level because you really don't want to do that like it's pretty shitty but at the same time we need to hold people accountable if they're doing shitty things um so it's it's trying to find that balance and and like it said i've fucking i have no idea how it's going to see we'll soon see maybe that's a good maybe that's a good advertisement yeah i mean if you want to see a bit of a powder keg on stage

between uh jeff walton and uh i don't know francis or something dave bradley i would say come on up come on up you'll have jeff there and probably an orange tie and dave there in a cowboy hat and we'll see what happens um yeah yeah okay okay so let's let's talk a bit about uh sort of the philosophy around this stuff you mentioned that the conference in your view is something that needs to move

Bitcoin forward for Canadians and be valuable to Canadian Bitcoin or specifically. What do you think is the most important thing in terms of moving Bitcoin forward in Canada? I mentioned earlier that I think we're partial to this thing for a lot of reasons. I'm curious, like, what do you guys view as the most important thing thematically to drive Bitcoin forward to Canada? Jeez, that's a difficult question for me to answer. To be honest, I know a lot of people maybe don't agree with this, but I, I, I, think the political road as much as people think burn it to the ground you know that it doesn't work for you i think you have to play within those rules you have to play within you know

you're you're given that's the that's the or they set the rules of the game we have to play you know whatever cards we get we have to fucking play with them um so try and engage them at our level is you know as important um and doing it before other people do it uh and and get their ear of those people i think that's that's important and i think you know i had discussion with someone the other day about you know in terms of adoption in canada once you get a lot more bit corners a lot more bit corners that are visible to politicians um you know then it becomes a a much bigger item for them you know as a as a voter item or you know, an item on the, the docket or whatever.

But, you know, to get that adoption, you know, a lot of people are sitting watching CP-24, like you say, you know, CBC or global news or whatever. And a politician comes out and says they're doing something for Bitcoin or it's, you know, or like you say, but the pool in Vancouver, you know, they talk about it. And there's, that builds trust and that trust kind of goes on to, you know, okay, maybe it is something we look at or we start to, you know, we understand that. it's in our pension plan or whatever. So, yeah, I think the political aspect can't be ignored, really.

I don't know what's your thoughts? I think it's true. And, you know, we kind of hit a bit of a roadblock here because in this country, unfortunately, everyone thinks the sort of like looming specter is Donald Trump. And obviously, his kids are pretty pro-Bitcoin. He was at the Bitcoin conference. And, you know, it significantly decreases the life. in my opinion that the boomer wealth tranche is ever going to find its way into spot

Bitcoin. You mentioned there, obviously, that some of these stocks are being indexed already. For example, if you buy the queues for your pension or, you know, whatever Bank of Montreal mutual fund you're in, they're fucking stealing from you, by the way. But if you're in a mutual fund, you probably have MSTR in your retirement savings. And, you know, as soon as you start asking people about Bitcoin, what do they say? They say, oh, is that a scam? It's like tulips. And now you have this other, like very difficult to move object in your path.

And it's the president. And people don't like that guy. I think it's an irrational dislike and irrational hatred. You can think he's delivering or not delivering, but to not like him or think that Bitcoin is bad because he likes it is, you know, it's categorically incorrect. And it shows a lack of understanding. You know, we were talking before the show a little bit about the pool in Kislando, you mentioned there. Colin Sullivan and Mincreen are working with the city there. It's interesting. Colin Sullivan was on this show, probably four years ago now. He's one of the first guests we had, I'm pretty

sure. And we were talking about this exact thing. He was already doing this in an apartment building or planning a dude in an apartment building or condo complex of some kind. And it made sense to us then. We were just babies. It makes sense to us now. And now, I think because of the price. I think because it's just sort of the brand of Bitcoin growing past exit velocity, let's say. People are looking at those stories and going, oh, yeah, Joey talks about that or Dan talks about that. I should ask what they think. And you know, you have a chance to put a wedge in with people. The political thing is so important now because, you know, as I said in the intro to the show and the ads and we say this every week. And I think everyone should be paying attention to this

because the politicians now are no longer interested in what the majority want. They're interested in where the money is. And you saw that with Trump, you know, doing a campaign stop at the Bitcoin conference. Like, does Trump care about Bitcoin? Does he understand like the fixed supply cap? Does he understand the block speed? Does he understand, you know, why JPEGs on the blockchain are a bad idea? Like, obviously not.

Do his kids? Obviously not. Does Bo Heinz, you know, former sort of crypto advisor, obviously not. But he has no choice but to come to those conferences and make that stop because that's a huge fundraising opportunity for him. Why? Because a Bitcoin at 20,000, Bitcoin doesn't have a lot of capital. But Bitcoin had 120,000. There's a couple of billion, 100 billion, whatever dollars in that asset. And people are willing to give it to you if you just say you're allowed to self-custody or Bitcoin. Or if you just say we're not going to ban mining domestically. Or if you just say that. Bitcoin is never going to be made, you know, illegal. We're going to use it as a store value ourselves or whatever. The bar is so low, which I think is the important thing. Bitcoiners, it seems to me, go above and beyond to try and make life difficult for themselves.

For example, this recent thing, you know, in the Google Play Store, you probably saw this last week. Yeah. Yeah, they want a KYC wallets as money transmitters. My view on this is that they probably are money transmitters by any rational definition. but the response from Bitcoiners was okay well then we're going to side load the wallets and we're going to fucking tell them we're not stopping and we're going to like I've seen you guys at conferences

you weigh 150 pounds none of you guys are taking out law enforcement at your door okay I've fucking seen I've seen you none of you guys are going to do that you have kids and families and jobs you're not going to do that so yeah that's that's a difficult sort of fruit to pick from the tree but an easy pick to an easy fruit to pick Dan would be can we can we get together a thousand bitcoiners that give $100 bucks each and pay a politician

to put this in his platform for the next election and can we do it with three politicians? Can we do it in a stronghold that the opposition party needs or wants? Like that costs 50, 60, 70 grand in Canada, maybe. And you're on the map, right? Instead of what? Like, it's like that meme from Inglorious bastards.

Like, you're hiding a non-KYC wallet under your floorboards. Are you not? Like, that's not the direction you want to go, but that's the direction Bitcoiners seem to think about right and i i think it's just obvious that the politics the political side is easier to to put a wedge in but that's just me well and and no you're you're you're absolutely right and you know i can see it where you know the you know the bitcoin network and the and the movement that

we have you know like there there's no real there's no bite to it because we don't have any financial backing really but when you look at the and i i know i've talked to boomer about this the canadian blockchain consortium yeah they um are uh have membership and they have membership and there's a lot of companies pay into that membership and they have they have clout and they're getting in front of politicians and they're they're getting traction hey really they're getting traction yeah they're they're like they have a there's there's a bitcoin on the hill event i know some Some people were at Jeff Booth was speaking in Ottawa, you know, a few months ago, and they're getting traction because they have the financial backing and they seem to be. And as far as I know, there's a lot of coming from maybe the mining community in Alberta and what they're lobbying for there.

But then there's also, you know, some of the other organizations in Canada, they're Bitcoin based as well. So, like, yeah, that's where I think, you know, we need to be, as Bitcoiners are need to be part. of that or that discussion as well need to be sitting at that table i think you're right like what about um like the bitcoin coalition canada mills and scott wolf and a few others doing good work there and like there there i still think kind of in uh i don't know they're in they're in the natal ward still but um you know things are looking good they'll be they'll be coming out of uh the incubators at some point and that's a good group of guys who have a bit of background scott's got a you know good feel for the politics of the era.

And Brad's obviously a guy who's been around the space for a long time. I'd like to see them do some good work too. Yeah. And I think there's, you know, from discussions I've had or from, you know, what I know, there's discussions between those two organizations as well, between the coalition and the blockchain organization to be able to help and be a bit more Bitcoin focused in terms of once you get in front of those politicians, making sure that Bitcoin's voice is heard.

in Canada. Do you think, kind of thinking to myself here while we're talking, you know, you mentioned lightbound last year. That was a nice, that was like a really nice get from you guys, I thought, because he's obviously a local MP and a Bitcoiner and a freedom maxi, although now it looks like he's a prime minister and waiting Maxi, unfortunately. But I struggle sometimes with this idea of whether or not we need to see a conservative government win the election to drive Bitcoin forward in Canada. And it worries me because I see big right wing influencer accounts in Canada tweeting just like the most retarded shit constantly. I saw Pierre Polyev won his by-election last night like landslide. It predicted, predictable, easy to see coming landslide.

And accounts like truck driver pleb are tweeting out these, you know, guess who's back, M&M videos with Pierre Pauliev dubbed in. And I just think they don't get it. The right doesn't get it. And so am I wasting my time thinking, you know, about I could influence a conservative politician. If one would just win, if they would just get the government and, you know, the liberals would move into a minority position or worse or whatever. But I don't know if it's actually true that we have to wait for conservative politicians. And I think that's costing Bitcoin in this country as well, that we're constantly aligning with people on the right when really. Like, it kind of is the left that has a mission that's more friendly to Bitcoin if they understood the asset.

Like, how can we protect people's savings? Like, we don't need to give another handout to people. We don't need to announce a tax cut that's going to save people like $220 a year or whatever that, you know, pitiful puny number was. We could just tell them to park five bucks in Bitcoin every month or like, you know, whatever the case is. Do you guys give that any thought? Do you think about that personally?

like what are we should we be waiting for a conservative government am i crazy that the liberals might be the party that's more vulnerable to the message yeah i i don't give any thought to that really because i i don't think it matters really uh like i really you know whether it's liberal or conservative conservative i think they they take their marching order from whoever's paying the most or whatever the money is going to um uh yeah i don't i don't think waiting for a conservative sure Polyev hasn't mentioned Bitcoin in the past you know

five years yeah five years but I've heard rumblings now that he will be having sit downs with some organizations to talk about these things in the near future is he free in October do you know have we talked to him I'm trying to get in front of him but I don't know like again

you know that is that going to piss off a bunch of people that hate him that's come to the conference is it going to be valuable I don't know like it's hard to say i know like he did uh he didn't event with um sat street in toronto um before the election but it wasn't really yeah it wasn't really that well publicized um it was a fundraiser there was a bunch like there was you know loads of uh alberta based mining companies there so yeah he he did did an event but in terms of your question would you wait i don't know you can't wait like

wait for what wait and then it doesn't happen again you know yeah there's something to that like you can't you can't just be you're going to be a skeleton by the time you know like that me and me waiting for the right party to be in power to push bitcoin for it okay let's let's get you out of here on one more question um I'm good for time I'm right okay let's okay let's do two more then I want to talk about this year's conference because uh obviously you're knocking on the door here like I said earlier you're probably six weeks awayish I had to guess yeah yeah so you know you want to get people people hyped up. You've shared some stuff about the conference already. Who are the

speakers you are most looking forward to? And who do you think the speaker is the first time attendees should be looking forward to the most? I like myself a good old Lawrence Lepard. He's the good, he's the steady, steady hand. Lawrence was there the first year. Great guy, like as soon as you can say, you're running the event. he's like i mean you know they was there that last year gave some great clips uh did some good talking points i think it's yeah yeah he used some some foul language on stage but it was pretty funny but um yeah lawrence is brilliant and if anybody wants to you know any newbies are coming and one and he almost he crosses both divides when you talk about the you know the uh pleb bitcoiner

and the kind of you know the the the white collar people as well because he's he's he's I think he's talking at some of the treasury events now as well where he knows that word like he knows what's what's going on in there so yeah he's brilliant

who else I think like a lot of people I don't know if many people know about Tomer like I love Tomer he's such a cool guy you know really funny and good good to talk to so he he'll be there this year

trying to think who else Francis is always good shout you know like always comes well prepared it's got a good uh you know he did the hard path last year um you know made some announcements he was about his wallet uh i think it was the first year um yeah he he's always good to see uh scott didles is always a good one as well like his his presentation last year was was unbelievable like you know i've kind of watched that a few times and you know some of the stuff he talks about like uh next level um i like sunny ray as well Sunny Ray is a real like if you know the story of Sunny Ray and the um he talked about that the first year

about you know you know coin in india and how you know they uh they uh they shut them down and he took on like the the uh central bank of indian one like one of the only you know uh people to ever do that like just crazy stories so yeah there there's so many of those guys that just um it's great whenever we say we're having the conference they uh they put their hand up and and say they're coming. And what do you make of, you know, the sort of, there's always naysayers, Dan. You know, the naysayers will get on, they'll get in the chat. They'll be on the chat on Monday when I say, you know, last week, look out for the interview

with Dan, Canadian Bitcoin Conference. When I read the sponsor ad, they'll say conferences to, it's two podconf approved. I don't know if you ever seen that meme before, but it's like people say that on our show, Len is not podconf approved and I am podconf approved like I don't say things that would get me like you know fired from my job or from a conference or whatever like you can put me on stage and I won't scare your kids or whatever the case may be but people some people don't like that they don't like the podconf approved conference and you know I look at the speakers the guys you just mentioned there a lot of guys who would you would be considered like clean you know Larry Francis

although I although I view him as you know like I said in the opening extremist uh in the best way there's a lot of people who look at that list and they go, I don't want to hear suit coiners. I don't want to hear another podcaster playing his greatest hits. I've heard Dietels before. I've heard Tomer before. What do you say to those guys? Because in some respects

you are bringing in, you're fighting sort of a two-prong battle, right? You need names that people know, but you can't have them just playing their hits. So what do you tell people who are saying? I'm not coming. Too much of the same. Too much of the same. Well, there's 70 speakers like so that's that's the most we've had you over the last old while like I said there's

something for everybody um I don't know like you know what I say to those people that are saying it's to podconf approved what do they want they want someone to get up and fucking sink is that the first time you ever said podconf approved yeah yeah I've never heard that before like do they want a slip knot conference or like yeah yeah know, I don't know, like, tell me who, you know, people, I, I don't, like, I talk to a lot of people. I usually put some stuff out online and say, who wants to speak at the conference and people send, send stuff in? But I'll talk to loads of people and say, right, who should we be getting this year? Who could we try and target and who can we bring in? But, yeah, I don't know, I don't

I know, Dave Bradley's probably the only one that really can be off color a little bit. I'm trying to think. Dave is great. Listen, you guys are, because people are coming, if I think back about the price each year, right? First year we got together, it was like 30, 40,000, whatever it was. Then last year, you know, we had hit another high. We were kind of all excited about it. And we're coming into what would turn out to be a really nice bull market.

And now you're, you know, double where you were last year at conference time. you got a lot of new people. And so to the people who say it's podconf approved, I would say you've been around. Just enjoy the conference setting, shake hands with your friends, dunk on some people, have a couple of beers and some steak, you know, a smoked meat sandwich, whatever, go to Schwartz and enjoy it. But it's going to bring a lot of new people this year because a lot of people are talking about the pool and Kitzlano. They're talking about the price of Bitcoin.

They're talking about the strategic reserve. If they're talking about, did you see what Trump said? Blah, blah, blah, blah. They're new. They want content and the conference has to give it to them. It's your responsibility as an OG Bitcoin or OG, whatever, to say. I'm not an OG big cutter. I mean, people think 2017 is OG.

I see it all the time. So whatever. I'm a class of 2017 myself and I don't view it that way, but all the same. I feel like it's at least partially my responsibility to make that environment inviting for them and not say, you fucking moron, you should have bought this. seven years ago. Now, you know, you were playing Halo 3 in your dorm and now you're poor forever. Sorry about your luck. You know, your family's doomed to an eternity of serfdom. That's not, you don't want to say that to people, you know, especially not if they're from

Fidelity in a suit. Make it inviting so that they want to come back so they appreciate it. And by the way, the suits who come to these, like there's a couple suits on the speaker's list that I know personally have had on the show and friends with now. Like, they're not suits after 9 to 5, okay? They're normal people who hate the same things you hate who love the same things you love and who will drink a beer

and get a burger with you. That's what the conference is about and I think that that's what you guys are trying to do. Yeah, and for the most part, like, you know, sometimes I've had these thoughts where, you know,

certain people will come up to you and say, and I'll tell you, there's one guy in the chat who said to me one time, he goes, I don't really go and watch all the conference material. I just come here to network with other Bitcoiners.

And you're like, well why the fuck am I bringing all these speakers here then like you know going to all this hassle of paying their expenses to come here you know not just but like we're not just organizing a big meetup but uh no and listen again it's it's one of those things where you know there's certain people like will stand in the exhibition hall all day just talking the bitcoiners and though there's some people that come because they want to um you know want to meet certain people or they want to like you know listen to the content or whatever so you're trying to trying to provide that for everybody and and listen this i don't know where this non uh podconf

approved bullshit to be from but can someone tag dan or the conference twitter account in a podcom thing boomer you're a good candidate to do that i see you talking about the podcom thing all the time on twitter tag a minute so he so he gets a gist for the meme right so we've had so okay made x dave bradley who else is not uh podconf approved um Yeah, there's a few other people for sure on that list. But yeah, those guys definitely are not. Maidex is for sure, not podcast approved. But the guys you said that are friends that are, the suits that are on there, I think, is Rich Diaz one of them?

Rich Diaz is one, man. He's a great example. I got beers. I got absolutely fucking slosh with that guy last year. He left. We went for beers. I was there. I think that's, yeah, you were there at the bar after.

We, my wife, him and I went for beers after. it was like the afternoon in the first day. So me, Madex and Francis did our panel. I went back to the hotel, did a show with Madex, then went to meet Rich.

We got trashed. And he had a date that night. He left the date to come to the bar we were all at and had people calling them all kinds of names. You're going to be poor, like you're going to be fucking poor forever.

Have fun staying for. And he's just looking at me through this crowd of people like, what the fuck is going on with these people? I don't know them. They don't know me, and they're telling me that I'm, like, doomed to a life of servitude to the government or whatever. Like, these guys don't, they want to have fun. They like it.

And by the way, they're independently successful. Like, Bitcoin is cool, but it's not on the top of mind for them because they're independently successful. They want to hear what you have to say. Just don't be a dickhead. That's all you have to do. Well, funny you say that because you recommend that, oh, you should have this guy. And I've heard of the Looney Hour, but I've never really listened to it. And you said, bring this guy on.

So I was texting them. I was going, hey, Rich, how's going? um you know is there anything you want to talk about that's bitcoin related and he goes i don't know anything about bitcoin i go so i go okay is there anything bitcoin adjacent and he was like uh yeah macro stuff and i all right i'll figure it but yeah yeah he'll be a good speaker but you know you can't have to bring these guys in to give a different perspective in certain topics as well so yeah i think he'll be a good one but i mean in terms of like you say the suits there's uh you know we've, I've had talks and discussions with a lot of the Bitcoin treasury company CEOs.

Now, a lot of them have reached out. And when you talk about, you were talking about before with that 50-50 of, you know, the suits and the plebs, like, I think they, these guys that, you know, the Bitcoin treasury companies, they want exposure. They want to get themselves out there. They want to get, you know, get, you know, the products out there. um so they want to come to the conference and that's been clear yeah um and they uh you know they maybe don't know what they expect either like i don't know if they've been to something like this or a bitcoin conference before so probably not i don't know so but they uh like you know they've all agreed to come and i've tried to structure some of the discussions for them in a way that

you know we put them with people who will ask them questions that other that bitcoiners are asking you know where's the yield coming from you know uh what's the governments look like um what's the custody look like you know all those sort of things like and that's for me that's what i'm trying to do so that you know i don't get in shit for being a um a trumpet for bitcoin treasury companies You know, and that's, I don't want to be that guy, but you can't ignore them. Yeah, agreed. Agreed. Okay, Dan, you've been great.

I don't want to put you on the spot, but will you co-host Monday night? I think you should do it. Yeah, sure, yeah. It's easy. You talk about some Bitcoin stories. Did you say, is Len, is Len non-podconf approved? Lon is non-podcom. He is not podcomproof.

No, no, he's a wild card. That's what makes the show so good. So, okay, you'll be back on Monday. Tell people in the meantime where they can find out more about the conference. conference buy tickets before i go before go i want to run through quickly the um so if anybody wants to play hockey uh i don't know if you've been americans um for sure we do anybody wants to play hockey the american team needs some help um the can i think they spanked the team spanked the canadian it was ugly last year they because they had uh um what is the guy's

name i forget now uh brand brand and brand jentiel yeah former d1 hockey player you look part last year apparently so there you go i'm i'm not a big guy and i was like he's a big boy yeah and someone yeah someone introduced me doing and i was like holy shit but yeah so um but i think the canadians like you got cori and tristan and uh john munga and like a bunch of really really good um hockey players on the canada side so i think the american side needs a few players um that's one thing we got a bitcoin for business workshop so we got like said scott d Bill Bitcoin, John Tellis,

Andrew Klubin, who else is in there? Nathan from BTC mentor. Yeah, Fitzsimmons. So we're doing, you know, that's kind of aimed to some of the more business crowd, like hotel owners or,

you know, people who have capital, who know, no jack shit about Bitcoin, but want to kind of, you know, go through a really fast understanding of how to accept it,

what it means. That's the day before the conference, right? That's on the 15th, yeah. Right, okay. Oh, sorry, 16th, 16th. 16th, so that's happening. We got the mining workshop as well, which is happening from DeCentral. So we got like 24 spots.

I think most of there's a few spots left, but they do build your own minor bedax. So they'll sit down with you. You got solar and iron, so you got little magnifying glasses. They're going through. They're telling you, you know, how it all works. And, you know, they're really good to learn opportunity. and then we get some networking events that night. So that's kind of the Thursday.

Then Friday, Saturdays, all day conferences, conference talks. And then we got networking at night in both of those days. And then you're going to be hosting. Yeah, it's going to be great. Are you going to do a better job than Joe Nakamoto? Joe Hall is a tough act to follow. I will for sure. I like Joe a lot.

He's never been on this show. But I consider him a good Bitcoiner and a good guy. and I watched him work the crowd last year It was like I'll tell you what It was a step above wedding emcee That's for sure And so I'm gonna have a tough act to follow

But I have some ideas And I've already been compiling Potentially embarrassing clips of speakers So I plan on showing a few of those Oh like a highlight reel Yeah maybe also bringing some props I have to see how I'm gonna get to the conference Part of me wants to take a train

Because I'm gonna have a bunch of shit I definitely am not gonna drive at all but I have to think about how I'm going to get some of the stuff there. Like, why shouldn't I make Larry Lepard do a 30-second kettlebell circuit on stage? Why shouldn't I make them do it? I should make them do it. Yeah, deadlift. I don't know, Russian dead lifts or something.

I don't know. Whatever. We got to figure something out. But I'm thinking of some stuff already. I don't know. I don't want to put a hole in a 100-year-old fucking stage. That's Larry's problem. Larry's on Twitter all the time, Dan.

He slipped in hundreds of pounds. over his head. Okay, he's doing burpees and all this other shit. Let's put it to the test. Okay, I think those weights might be foam on Twitter. I'm going to give him something that's cast iron. Let's see what he's made of there. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, okay, so that's it, everyone. Thanks for coming. Dan, as always, pleasure to talk to you, buddy. And we will see you guys. I guess I will see you in probably a week or so. But Land and Dan will be here Monday for more fun excitement. Until then, take care of yourselves.