The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #150 (Bitcoin News) - The L2 Debate, MSTR Buys, Bakkt Goes Bust

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -BC turns their back on bitcoin mining -Citrea is trash -MSTR stacks more BTC -Bakkt going bankrupt? and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: ⁠ ⁠https://discord.gg/ESRCZWpb⁠ A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. ______________ Check out the other podcasts on the network: The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast (https://www.youtube.com/c/CanadianBitcoiners) The NHL 94 Podcast (https://www.youtube.com/@NHL94Podcast) Two Whites and a Blue (https://www.youtube.com/@twowhitesandabluepodcast2788) Bitcoin and Barbells (https://www.youtube.com/@JoeyBBandBTC)

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. now 50 uh what is it 50,024 50k day on number 150 here on cbp media network this is my coin market cap is showing something else and my block rock is showing you got a reset the block for two the block hawk's never accurate i got to change it's five minutes behind yeah that's the other problem um i'm joey that's len welcome back buddy great day to be a bitcoiner what's uh what's going on your neck of the woods over there just basking in the glory of what's going on with the price of bitcoin you know what like

i typically don't follow but today i did for some reason i did that and you know what looking at this and watching it go up and up in price like how could like anybody out there really say that bitcoin's not gonna fucking moon there's you know financial advice of course but if you're sitting on zero, fuck you. You're an absolute moron. There's every opportunity to come in.

It's still relatively cheap in my particular opinion, but fuck you if you're sitting on zero because it's a good time to get in and keep stacking away. KYC free.

We'll talk about that in a moment. I don't get the zero thing. The ETF inflows are completely insane. I put a post up on our website maybe a week ago with some of the ETF inflows.

It's a billion plus a week. It's an insane number. And the GBTC outflows, they were super high the first few days. But last week, Len, they started to really taper off. I don't know what they were today. I think Thursday last week, it was like 75 million. Barely anything. It's a good drop in the bucket, uh, beat GBT outflow.

So I think a lot of people are just looking up or thinking about like, I'm not even going to worry about selling this right now, especially in the States. I don't know what the tax situation is over there, but anyway, we'll get to that among other things, as always CBP sponsored by two great companies, easy DNS, the best place for you to host your content, friendly neighborhood domainhood Domain Registrar, as Mike, as Mark always likes to say. Whether you're doing virtual private server stuff, Bitcoin Node, Noster Relay, BTC Pay Server implementation, NodeList implementation, Mark can help you with that. If you want to bring your website over, you want to start something, maybe like your own

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to buy your bitcoin if you want to so you can sell your bitcoin i'm sure people out there are thinking it's a good time to sell your Bitcoin because the price of Bitcoin has been pumping. We've had a great day in terms of respect to the price. But you know what? Don't sell. Keep your Bitcoin and keep stacking away. That's my non-financial advice to you.

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By doing so, you get 21 bucks added to your account after you fund your account and provide the necessary information. No better place to buy KYC-free Bitcoin in the world, in the country for sure, but in the world than Bull Bitcoin. So lots to talk about. Let's do some housekeeping first. Last week, you had a great last minute show with Praveen Pereira, who's a guy you and I are friends with. I've met him a few times. He was first introduced to me, I think at Innocente two years ago, before he did his whole exfil from Canada to the greener pastures of Texas there,

which you guys talked about. Lots of discussion. He's obviously more well-versed in the code side, the technical side of Bitcoin than we are and has some strong feelings, as you do, about the ordinal slash chitscriptions. I think I have to call them now after listening to that interview side of things.

That was really good. So big thanks to him for coming on. I realized that was short notice. We appreciate that. And I got to say, he's welcome back anytime. That was really good. So big thanks to him for coming on. I realized that was short notice. We appreciate that. And I got to say, he's welcome back anytime. That was a really good episode. If you haven't listened to that yet, you should. This week, we have

a very special guest coming on. Time TBD, Chris Irons, quote, the Raven, who's become very popular in the Bitcoin space in the last little while for his about face on the best asset in the world over the last week or two weeks or so. Very much looking forward to talking to him. If you're looking for more from Chris, he was on Palisade Gold Radio last week discussing some Bitcoin

related stuff, hard asset stuff. He's a gold guy as well, which I understand. I'm going to ask him about that when we have him on later this week. i'm not sure if it's gonna be wednesday or thursday i think it could even be tomorrow i'm not 100 sure but i will uh tell everyone as soon as i know and we'll rip that stream probably midday if i had to guess so keep an eye out for that two white it will be live yeah regardless of when we do it it'll be live unless you have some opposition but honestly i doubt it um two whites and blue released a show on saturday it was pretty good mike and will were over here on friday night we did a good rip had a few beers talked about a lot of things that um you know are important to us as usual i highly recommend subscribing to that show i don't think nhl 94 released an episode this week but i could

i tried to do it every two three weeks this weekend i have an interview with perhaps the greatest player in the genesis side of things, and his name is Angry J. So he'll be joining me on Sunday, and then I'll release it, who knows, sometime in the next few days after that. So he's apparently the best Genesis NHL player, NHL 94 player out there. He smokes everybody, won the King of 94 tournament a few times, and just he's running away with it. So, yeah, maybe I'll have a match with him after and just to try to keep it under 10 goals hey when are you

doing the uh your life your term show it's next week or the week after i forget so you're doing so you're doing that you were also on high hash rate right i haven't listened to your full high hash rate episode yet but i did enjoy the the bit that i heard those guys are good um we should at some i'm leaving the basement joy this is incredible yeah i know i know it's crazy you're getting out there it's good to see uh so i'm looking forward to hearing you on tom and nick's show too that's always um a good place to hang out and i think you're playing some nhl there as well are you not yeah we're gonna be i'm gonna bring the controllers bring the genesis we'll play and uh i don't plan to leave there

until midnight so i love it i love it don't tell them don't tell them leave there until midnight. I love it. Don't tell them. They suggested it. I'm kidding. No, they didn't. Also, I'm going to stock up on some beef while I'm there because every time I go there, I'm going to pilfer some meat. Controversy. Controversy about beef. I might as well do it, right?

I have this reputation. To be further discussed on their air,'m sure on uh later later in person i want to get to the bottom of this who is the person that did this because my good name is being smeared as a result i would not take any of their meat with only the stuff that we purchased so can't can't have that can't have that i think that's it for housekeeping you want to do some oh no no one more housekeeping item sure there's going to be a having party taking place at the brewing company that you mentioned in the center it's going to be

taking place waterloo ontario so in the center brewing company april 20th 5 p.m eastern what if the having is before that like are we trying to hit the day we don't care what are we doing i have information that this is the date. It looks like they don't give a fuck. Whatever. The date is going to be this is the having party. So there you go. Is it during the week, Len?

It probably is. No, it's a Saturday. Wow. Incredible. Everything is lining up perfectly for this. I plan to attend. Joey, if you want to attend, I don't know. I don't know if you're committed or not.

Unknown. Unknown. Unknown. There you go. So it's going to be a game time decision. There you go. It's going to be a game-time decision. Yeah, so it's going to be good. Apparently, we're getting some flack. All 21 people in that chat have to attend.

If you don't, Joey, then we're down to about one. It's 20 people, and somebody's going to get kicked out of that chat. We'll see what happens. But anyways, there you go. Yeah, having party, April 20th, Innocente Brewing Company, 5 p.m. Also, got some boosts. I'm just going to rhyme them off quickly. We got the Bamboozler 210 sats.

Life is a game. Give me the Bitcoin version where the rules are clear and determined over the fiat version where they are arbitrary and changed on a whim by the people that are winning. I like that, yeah, because it's clearly defined the rules with bitcoin the issuance schedule there's so much that you could just look at the code and you could predict what's going to happen moving forward except the price the price is unpredictable top w cone 395 sats joy this is an interesting comment he makes he said the union members of

ups will not lose any jobs all the layoffs are in management and temp jobs not being renewed. The union contract protected them from layoffs. The hidden story is shipping is down. And I mentioned that as well. FedEx has laid off people. Amazon ditto. ODL carrier has laid off too. I don't know what ODL stands for, but anyways, they did.

And real companies have cut stockyard hours due to lower volume. In consumer economy, lower shipping means less buying. That's the real story. And that's a telling tale of what's going on with the economy in the U.S. So there you go. So those UPS guys, at least we're unionized. It looks like they're not going to lose their jobs. I see in the comments, Grace, too, commenting from Twitter,

how to RSVP to the having party. I can't respond to Twitter comments in the comments, Grace2 commenting from Twitter how to RSVP to the having party. I can't respond to Twitter comments in the chat, so how do you RSVP? That'd be a good thing to know, actually. I don't think there's an RSVP, to the best of my knowledge. Just simply show up. That's it. Just show the fuck up. There you go.

If we jam the place, all the more better. I don't know if there's any sponsor or anything. We're just unofficially associated with it, so there you go. i don't know what's going to happen any events or anything that's going on there but anyways last we have mo btc dick 550 sats writes in gotta say len was great on high hash rate but i desperately want to witness len after partaking in some of the old devil's lettuce now. Not going to happen.

You did say on the show that you're a CBD guy, though. I didn't know. Yeah, I like that. If I, you know, have to choose of the two and I choose one of the two, I like CBD over the THC stuff. THC, you know, it does what it does. But maybe CBD is snake oil, like I mentioned in our chat. Could be, could not be.

I have no fucking clue. But it's relatively cheap and it gives me peace of mind and it feels like something is going on with my joints improving them but again it could all just be in my head it could be snake oil i could be pissing my money away but luckily it's not that much money good to know all right well we may as well uh hop into the bitcoin stories here i see you took no prisoners on the thumbnail. I think we might have some disagreement here. Do you want to start there or do you want to start somewhere else? Let's talk really, really quick.

And I don't even have it on my agenda here, but Biden's laser eyes. What the fuck is that all about? How cringe is that, Joey? Who did this? Why did they do it? What's the message? What is up with this? I have no fucking clue. We are resolving to be less pointed in our commentary and personal opinions on this program no but this is like legitimate he has laser eyes on a picture so i'm curious what the fuck i don't think i don't

think it's like is it like a san francisco 49ers laser eye thing is that what i'm supposed to take from that that it's like uh or sorry a kansas city chiefs one like what does he mean by just how we drew it up like that's what i don't i don't really get like what is he going for there i thought it was like maybe super bowl related maybe i don't know because i can't imagine it's something else like what is he talking about the tweet is like uh it's like cryptic but it was during the super bowl so what else could it be is it a carryover from his tweet about and video about shrinkflation i don't know like is there any connection between the two of them that video by the way was was incredible stuff right

when he talks about inflation going down every day to then transition pretty cleanly to yes the prices are lower but you're actually getting sneakily less food like not really great pr there but that's what you get from a white house that employs people like Jean-Pierre and the others that are on that podium day in, day out. Just, I mean, dropping the ball is the kind term. I think maybe I'll stick with that, but I'm sure people have more pointed language than that for what's going on at the white house. Look, to your point, to answer the question with a tweet, I don't know. Nobody knows.

I don't think they mentioned what it is. I didn't hear anything today clarifying what it meant. So God only knows what's going on over there, buddy. I don't have a clue. Honestly, I do not have a clue. That's the best.

Throw something out there that is even remotely closely related to Bitcoin. Say nothing and just leave it. And you'll probably never address it moving forward. Engagement farming, engagement farming, right there.

Well, then, you know, the debt is like 32 trillion. If you can get a couple of bucks from Elon for the views of your tweet, like why not? Right. It's fiscally responsible.

I think you're two or three trillion short or 34, 35 trillion. Oh, good. So just imagine that like a few trillion just a few trillion here like it's trillions of dollars never we're gonna fucking repay this thing or i gotta look here anyway yeah that's funny i don't know i don't know what's making the laser eyes you you know as good as anyone 34 trillion yeah 200 billion on top of that too we're getting close is getting real

yeah by june july it's going to easily be past anyways let's talk about something what's going on in bc but first before i talk about what's going on there last week we had some shots fired by the biden administration towards bitcoin mining and we talked about this they had you know they're asking for miners out there to voluntarily submit information and they're trying to collect this information with respect to Bitcoin mining. And this is for the Department of Energy. They're the one that's running this. We discussed it at length. Check it out, CBP 149, if you want to get more information with respect to that.

Well, we have a jurisdiction in Canada, and I mentioned BC. That's also firing shots at Bitcoin mining as well. So before we get into BC and what's happening with Bitcoin mining as well. So before we get into BC, and what's happening with Bitcoin mining, I just want to add some color to this first. So number one, we have BC, the predominantly they are generating energy through hydroelectric. That's 87%, a little bit over 87%. In fact, comes from hydroelectric. So that's quote-unquote green energy. That's what's powering up their grid. And typically, BC generates more electricity than they use,

and they export electricity. But 2023 is an exception. And the reason being they had an unusually dry year, and obviously it hurts hydroelectric power generation, and so they became a net importer versus net exporter of electricity. And now to the story at hand. So we have a company called Konefex Timber Inc. We'll call them Konefex moving forward.

They're a Canadian-based forestry company. They're trying to get into Bitcoin mining. So they're trying to branch out into something else. And it's pretty cool. Great, great joke. Great pun there, trying to branch out. Okay, continue. So, BC, unfortunately, has been putting up roadblocks with respect to new mining operations plugging into the grid. So, back in 2022 December, a little over a year and change ago, the province put in an 18-month pause on any new mining operations that are going to be hooked up to the grid and this impacted

conafix because their ability to move over to move forward to mining operation is now going to be impacted as a result what they decided to do is like any other company or any other individual they decided to take this to court and they took this all the way up to the bc supreme court and the bc supreme court ruled in favor of b, saying that the pause is reasonable and not unduly discriminatory. So the people setting the laws put the pause. The courts say the pause is not discriminatory and it's reasonable. So this pause is going to be there for until the end of it. They also say that Conafix, this endeavor would consume 2.5 million megawatts

hours of electricity. And that's enough to heat and power 570,000 homes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. This is according to Conafix's information, by the way, this is I don't think this is so this is straight from the source. And remember, this pause back in December 2022 came at a time when BC was exporting their electricity, right? This isn't the only province that's done this, by the way. Manitoba has done the same thing. They put an 18-month memorandum starting from November 2022, and that's still currently under review.

But there seems to be more and more provinces doing the same thing. But what's going to happen when BC now has to look at this pause once again, considering now last year, they were importing electricity and you have all this FUD surrounding what's going on with Bitcoin mining. I suspect BC might be another province that is going to have an extended, almost indefinite ban on Bitcoin mining, plugging into the grid. And this more than ever shows that Bitcoin miners, they have to seek out stranded sources of energy, energy that is nowhere to be plugged into the grid or energy that they could produce on their own, such as maybe a oil and gas company or their own power generation station,

something along those lines. But what I'm looking at here, between what happened last week and what's happening here, I think Bitcoin mining is at a crossroads. And normally, I would say that North America would be a friendly jurisdiction towards Bitcoin mining. But after seeing these stories, I'm wondering, moving forward, if this is still going to be the case. Seems like it's going to be harder and harder to do business. In the United States, they're going to be asking for people or companies to voluntarily submit information. And we can suggest why this might be the case.

And in BC and Manitoba, they have these memorandums and pauses that they're putting on for plugging into grid. It's inevitable it's going to be spreading to other provinces as well. So, like i said stranded sources of energy is key with bitcoin mining but still even with that i still think we are going to be looking at some roadblocks in north america with respect to bitcoin mining and that's good in one respect and bad another good because you want to decentralize everything but bad you prefer to have it in jurisdictions that you have more control over canada and the states namely and you don't have it sent to like venezuela russia or whatever because you know it's they are quote unquote

our enemies so i i just want to say that that's basically that what i'm talking about here is that it's something is going on with bitcoin mining politicians don't like it and something is going to happen in next to the next little while that's my guess i just think there's two kind of considerations for this story and any of the other ones that are kind of the same ilk you know it's sort of uh painted with the same brush one is you know as especially now that the et ETF is available in the United States, there isn't really any legal cloud over the asset itself, Bitcoin itself. The thing is legal in the way that many other things are legal, commodities and other investment tools. I don't think that's going away. I think it's all kind of heading one direction now. It's almost a done deal basically everywhere in the

world, as long as the US does it. Excuse me, it's Gucci in most places. Great. So that isn't an attack vector for Bitcoin anymore. But the thing that is an attack vector, which we've talked about before, is industrial mining. It's an attack vector for two reasons. One, there's a very vocal and I think sometimes misinformed group of people working on behalf of someone, unknown forces, honestly, but they're working against Bitcoin miners, Canada, US, and European countries as well. I've seen this. Among other places, probably if I think back to the three years almost we've been doing this show, I am certain that we could find a couple of episodes where we talked about other countries on other continents discouraging Bitcoin mining for similar reasons,

environmental damage and things of this nature. I don't view this as an environmental support cause. I view this as an attack on Bitcoin. I say that because we've seen, in my opinion, environmental protection used as a wedge into discouraging or outright punishing certain behaviors in favor of other behaviors, even though it's not necessarily great for the environment, certainly not great for consumers. Although British Columbia has the fourth cheapest power in the country, I think, right? They're about $0.09 or $0.10 a kilowatt hour.

So it puts them about fourth on average. Quebec is the cheapest. And then one of the territories, I forget which one, is the most expensive. So it's not really good for anybody except for the people who want Bitcoin banned, controlled, more centralized, stuff like that. The other side of this, Len, is what do we do about it as a community? I think a lot of us, I don't want to speak for you, but I think a lot of us in Bitcoin, especially if you've been around for seven or eight years, you and me are in year eight now, is sort of in the Bitcoin space. And I can't think of anyone who's ever come up with a good solution to governments attacking mining, right? We know the benefits, they're there. They're very clear, I think. Grid stabilization, demand response. We've heard these

things. And actually, there's a lot of good stories that also we've talked about over the years. So what do you do when a local government or a state government or a federal government won't engage with you on bare terms? I don't know. I kind of think you do it the same way Uber did it sometimes, where you just keep pushing, pushing, and putting down roots until the general population demands the product or service or the byproduct of the product or service in this case, I guess. And it becomes politically feasible and basically required to win an election to keep this stuff going. We're a long way away from that.

The other thing, Len, is you just leave. And I think that Canada has suffered from this a lot in the last four or five years, probably longer than that. But in the last four or five years, it's been a number of things that we've kind of pushed away from our borders in a lot of ways. And I fear that Bitcoin mining is going to be another one. I had a moment of memory there when you were telling the story about these moratoriums on mining that provinces and municipal jurisdictions put on the books. Remember when Quebec, we had Ben Gagnon on in 2021, probably, or 2020 even. No, 21 when we started the show.

And at that time, they using quebec as their canadian hub and shortly after that interview quebec put the moratorium on i don't think they ever took it off did they i know that there's some um hurdles that need to be overcome i think that it's ended i could be wrong but i mean we do i mean you and me are talking and looking and reading about a lot of Bitcoin stuff, especially Canadian Bitcoin stuff. And I don't remember seeing a return at the scale that Bitfarms was in Quebec. I don't remember seeing a return. And I think I agree with you that these moratoriums are becoming permanent bans

just because the momentum required to overcome them, both politically and from a business point of view, it just isn't worth it. No politician is going to tie their carriage to this horse. And no company, especially not a publicly traded company, is just going to keep bashing their head against the wall to mine in a market that doesn't want them when so many more markets are starting to want them uh specifically obviously in the in the united states that you know some of the red united states um i don't know what to make of this except to say that i think it's a mistake and it's it's one of many mistakes we seem to be making on the tech sort of cutting edge side of things i mean uh i'm a big fan of Professor Michael Geist, and he's talking a lot about some of the things we're seeing

in the privacy space from the tech side. I think this is maybe not exactly the same, but certainly it's being dominated by the same mentality. You know, protectionism, centralization, difficulty opening businesses in the name of protecting, you know,yz canadian institution power whatever right like i just think it's a mistake and it's going to be a costly one down the road we talked a little bit you know i mentioned it earlier in the show that beat the

etf inflows this is a thing that's going to be huge for everybody at some point it's already huge part of like my life in your life people listening watching but it's going to be big for everybody at some point why would you want to huge part of my life and your life, people listening, watching, but it's going to be big for everybody at some point. Why would you want to put your country at a disadvantage by pushing away companies that are trying to do the right thing and use some of the stranded power, as you mentioned, to mine Bitcoin? I don't get it. Wouldn't the prudent thing be putting in a federal level Bitcoin tax? It's a 0.05 tax everything you mine uh we get you know 0.05 of it like that to me is the prudent thing and i think i don't think we're far from that honestly some countries doing that um because as we mentioned before it's hard to get the hardware it's hard to get the

power it's hard to get all those things but some of these companies already have roots down i'm a little far afoot here at this point but but it just, it doesn't make sense. I don't, I don't understand the, the principle behind this. And it sounds like it's hard to find an explanation, which makes it even more frustrating. Yeah. I don't know what else to say.

I mean, in one sense, I could try to play devil's advocate as to why they're trying to do this. And I think we all like to have the ability of flipping a switch and having the lights turn on. We don't want it to have flickering or no power whatsoever. So to have it readily available is something we want. And plugging in more of these mining operations into the grid will take away from whatever electricity is being generated. There could be a potential in the not-too-distant future that it could overwhelm whatever's being generated and the companies that are uh

the companies are generating the electricity maybe they'll even make an agreement with these bitcoin mining companies to sell that the electricity at a higher price to them so it'd be advantageous because selling it to you and i as a consumer residential user residential customer i mean we only pay whatever the regulated rates are and they could potentially sell it for higher to a company that really wants it so that's the devil's advocate side of things but stranded energy that's a good argument though then because the miners are you know sort of inherently long bitcoin right so how long are you are you 25 greater power costs long that still puts you by the way about halfway up the ladder as far as energy costs in the country so it's really not that bad if you're long bitcoin you want to mine how long are you you know how

lucky do you feel i don't know and again if they're happy selling the electricity at a premium to those companies would you as a consumer be happy as well flipping the switch and not having power because the power or is just you know it's a brownout or blackout you'd have to figure it out right so exactly that yeah but the stranded energy that's the one i truly hope that they don't go after a bitcoin mining company data center that is hooked up to a energy that is just non-usable it's so far away from urban commerce industrial areas just transporting it feasibly doesn't make sense economically doesn't make sense so if using that for bitcoin mining i hope that there's not going to be opposition by the powers that be to stop

them from taking advantage of this because in my opinion that energy is useless it's wasted so you might as well try to harness it and you know that's an interesting point to put in some sort of federal tax a minimal one at that but it could potentially help out the government as a whole. And, you know, maybe they have to start accumulating some Bitcoin for themselves just for what better way to start than to just, you know,

throw a tax on it's, it's a low from the government's point of view, it's a low friction vehicle to get some skin in the game. And, you know, as we know, once to get some skin in the game. And, you know, as we know, once you have some skin in the game,

you start to understand some of the mechanisms behind the asset a little more deeply because it's sort of, you know, to your, um, benefit 50,100, by the way, on the block. Yeah.

Both of ours are synced. Yeah. So I don't know. Um, I don't know what else to say about this. I'd love to talk to somebody from that company. Maybe they want to like, come on and talk to us.

I don't know. We can probably get them if they'd love to talk to somebody from that company. Maybe they want to come on and talk to us. I don't know. We can probably get them if they're interested. I'm not sure a company has a PR person or a podcast person like the Bitcoin companies do. But if they do, we could get them on. I'll even wear my lumberjack shirt. Stay in the spirit. Let's move on. Citria, let's talk about that because that's...

Oh, boy. Okay. All right. All right. Well, this has been gaining a lot of traction on twitter and yeah you know uh i think it's time that i vent on this thing because it sounds like you and i might might be standing on two different sides i don't know about different sides i i suspect that the the conviction we have is a little

different um oh okay i'm yeah i'm pleased that you're it looks like we're going to see things that I die. roll-ups this is another thing that's been uh being bantering around and you know these this is a zero knowledge roll-ups and well this is this ck roll-up stuff it's prevalent in the shitcoin community it came from ethereum it came from other places and now it's bleeding its way into bitcoin so there you go red flag number one let's talk about red flag number two zk roll-ups again you know if you take a look the wizard those loser wizards they were on stage at the 2023 bitcoin in name only conference and they were talking about the zk roll- at that stage, at that point in time. So that's another red flag. And now it makes me wonder what VCs are behind this trying to try to pump this fucking shit. But let's talk about what it is, because I'm going to get this information right away from No BS Bitcoin.

Check it out. It's a great news source. They say that since zero knowledge proofs can't be verified directly on Bitcoin, this is for a lack of optimized opcodes. We use a multi-party committee to verify them off-chain and compute a single on-chain signatures. So right away, we're talking about it can't verify. You're trusting somebody. These are things obviously I'm not a big fan of. And the question i have is who creates this single on-chain signature you know it's verified by these multi-party committees right like i somebody asked me anyone ask you or

no no but it's not us it's not and i run my own note i can't do it's somebody else you're relying somebody else these zero proofs are entirely done by somebody else we can't verify shit and they say it is a well it's not it's not a trust it's not a trustless model like it is so it is a little bit less than that and i'll talk about that in a second this also takes advantage of bit v vm we talked about bit V M quite a bit, and they use this as a bridging mechanism to make this all happen without bit VM. Apparently this is not possible. And so in a nutshell, this is, you have the rollup operator and this is potentially a company. They're the ones managing the funds and all this. And in this case, it's going

to be Bitcoin, right? And the verifiers are the ones that are going to be using this. And they're the ones that they able withdraw be using this. And they're the ones that will withdraw funds if needed. And if the operator is doing something that is in bad faith, well, the verifiers could challenge the process and penalize the operator. So there's a check and balance. That's what's happening here. And these rollups, like as I mentioned, they're performing transactions. And these are being executed outside of Bitcoin, but then being sent over to bitcoin to be for the transaction ultimately so in this case the citria transactions there's supposed to be thousands of transactions that are batched and eventually once the the pretty they produce a

validity proof asserting the correction the correctiveness of the execution then is done on the bitcoin on chain but and they say by using this method they could scale bitcoin but what's the cost of this that's the question i already mentioned verifying and trust and we could talk about this a little more in that like so trust right the one term i keep hearing from them is trust minimized right it's it's trustless or nothing for me fuck that i don't want to have trust minimized because I don't want to trust anybody with my funding. This is Bitcoin. We have no way to recuperate any Bitcoin we lose.

Bitcoin in its fundamental state, fundamentally, it gives you, the user, the ability to control your Bitcoin. Nobody else can do it. They could try hacking into it, but you need an enormous amount of energy, enormous amount of time to get to the point to hack your Bitcoin. Nobody else can do it. They could try hacking into it, but you need an enormous amount of energy, enormous amount of time to get to the point to hack your keys. Without those two things, it's impossible to do so. You get super lucky, but that's a shot in the dark.

That's being very, very lucky. That's never going to happen. But the reality is, don't fucking trust anybody. In this situation, this scenario, this setup requires you to trust somebody else. I don't fucking buy it. I don't like it. Verifying is also a second issue, right? The problem with zero knowledge proofs in this model, you can't verify the longest chain like

you can on a full node, a full node, mine sitting right here beside me. What it does, it searches for the longest change, the longest chain chain and it uses that. And that's where it's going to continually verify and want to broadcast to that. It's quick and easy. It works. But with the zero proof, you don't have the ability to do that. It is done in a vacuum. It doesn't have any idea about what is the longest chain. And that is potentially a security risk so i see this zero proof and sorry zero knowledge is a staple in the shitcoin community trust gotta give it up don't like it verifying can't do it don't like it all in all it's all shit man what vcs are funding this i'd love to know plus you have all those fucking those wizards talking about this and supporting this too many red flags 10 just 10 thumbs down for me for this one i'll get 11

11th in a little bit but we'll see well okay a couple easy ones for me here looking at the citria team or whatever when you google citria the first thing you get is their appearance on the unchained podcast with laura shin the scam cast. So like right away, I'm out. I don't want to hear any more about this. I don't know a lot about the guys who are running it, these two fellows, their names are not handy. But if you want to know, Len, a couple of the projects that, what's the name of this thing? Chainway Labs that's incubated this project, the Citria project for about a year. They've got two projects that are major one of them is citria right you know what the other one's called yeah ordinal safe browser extension for simple and non-custodial btc inscriptions

and you know i mean you're kind of yeah exactly right like you're kind of going down this road i don't want to talk about inscriptions like i I think it's whatever, but to me, you got, you got a couple of checkboxes here that make really make it easy to see it's a scam in the interest of completing my research for this episode. I joined the Citria discord chat and just a little looking around, checking some stuff out. I'll say this. Okay.

As much as I think this is a bad idea and probably won't take off for the reasons you mentioned there, trust, minimize, zero knowledge, all that stuff, we don't need it. I will say that the founders and the guys who are working on the project are parrying dozens of requests

from the people who are in that Discord and refusing to do a token. Everybody in that discord is asking for a token and early access to it. It'll help with funding. It's easier than doing a raise. You have all the capital you need. You can sell this later, blah, blah, blah. Those guys, to their credit, you may disagree with the idea, but I'm giving some credit where it's due here. They refuse to do a token. I didn't listen to the Laura Shin interview. Maybe I should. I bet you she asks too, because she does ask about that sometimes why don't you do

a token like it's a dumb question laura uh but whatever um i think you're right i'm not as uh you know concerned about this kind of stuff the question i have for you if i could play devil's advocate here for a sec with all this new money and all these new eyeballs coming into Bitcoin, thanks to the ETF and number go up and all these things. And as it does every cycle, you know, we do pull from a lot of the other altcoins into Bitcoin because people kind of come to their senses and they're like, yeah, this is it. If this doesn't work, nothing works. Well, you know the story.

We're going to get a lot of people who have bad ideas. We're going to get a lot of people who have bad ideas. We're going to get a lot of people who are trying to scam and con people. But we're also going to get people who have good ideas that just need a little bit of a chance to make mistakes and develop and iterate. How do you know this can't be one of those things? That's the thing I'm curious because you're always pretty, I don't want to say extreme, but you are early to the breakfast a lot of the time, you know, finding these things and having conviction about them. What would, in your opinion, be the thing that gave one of these projects a little bit of leeway to, you know, try something on, not maybe not on Bitcoin, but try something with Bitcoin and maybe get it wrong the first time, second time, third time. But then the fourth iteration, they come to their senses on some issue or come up with some engineering development that makes it worthwhile. How do we know we're not just stomping everybody out on the first attempt because it's no good and

Bitcoin has become this kind of, I hate using this word because it just drives me nuts, but it's become like this toxic swamp where as soon as you take a misstep, you just melt, right? That you're out forever. You're sullied. Your reputation's damaged, blah, blah, blah. How do we know when those projects come along that just need a little bit of time to make mistakes and build something better that we might actually like in a year or

two years that's one thing i can't figure out i'm curious if you've thought about it at all you could do a sniff test on it and figure out if it smells like shit or not and this one does and another one that's pretty good i mean we heard about um ctv and you know that may be something that's decent yeah you know I can't say for certain. I would have to inspect it a little bit more, learn about it more. But we talked about it. I talked about it for sure in the past that, you know, even if we do want to go ahead with CTV, it's something you'd have to not jump into it, but just slowly examine months, years, maybe even longer to figure out if it's right.

We saw the unintended consequences, which came out with Segwit and Taproot. And now we have the four meg blocks that could potentially be minted and JPEGs that are included on it. So those are the unintended consequences of it. Now, I hear that from, gosh, I forget the inscription guy's name. Whatever his name is. Casey Rodimer. Casey Rodimer, yeah.

He said that you could do inscriptions outside of Taproot and outside Segwit. Okay, fine. Okay, I'll take that. It would be more expensive, though. You're not going to get the... The discount. Yeah, there's no discount that comes along with Taproot,

but, you know, it'd still be possible. So I don't think there's much of an incentive to do it, or at least four times less incentive or something whatever this scale may be so that being said so that's why i'm just using that as an example the segwit and taproot that even it looks good on paper we don't know what the unintended consequences are with activating something so ctv and something i've been talking about maybe something that's good we should consider doing it but you got to take the long-term. You have to look long-term with this.

We are having the monetary system. It's collapsing. There's no doubt about this. We could all see it. It's just a matter of when. It's not a matter of if. And modernizing that into something with Bitcoin makes sense. Now, it has to be ready for that.

And it can't be in a state where people are still infighting or it's not ready for mass adoption or a number of different reasons it's got to be ready you can't be fucking fucking with it throwing shit on there jpeg shit like that and then saying oh guys let's replace or at least modernize the monetary system let's start using bitcoin we're still fighting out here with fucking jpegs right like we we can't be in that state it's got to be ready for prime time there's so much at play right here there's so much that we could fuck up if we fuck up we can't do it so i'm of the opinion let's whatever is being thrown out there let's take our fucking time if it's years decades that's fine like let's do this right let's think things

through let's use a test as much as possible let's try to find ways around it that people are looking at this and saying you know i could potentially use this activation of whatever project and bring my own garbage in there let's see if we could try front running them figuring this shit out we have smart people we could you know we could do this with enough time and effort so yeah as for figuring what is good it's a sniff test this one as i said it smells like crap okay okay yeah and look we got mr bailey out there i'm not anti-lightning anti-lightning i i like it it may not scale as i mentioned in the previous episode there's problems with scaling of that but but it certainly helps with quick and easy payments right now. And the one good thing about Lightning is when I create a channel, it's two of two pre-signed

transactions. So if any of the two parties want to close the channel, they could do so. They have control over their funds because it's already pre-signed that transaction so there's some benefits to lightning and there's some drawbacks to lightning but yeah here and there uh to big drawbacks i mean let's be honest to dave and the other people commenting on x i can see the comments i can't respond to them in the chat so just be aware of that normally i would respond in the chat but i i can't even if i see him so you have to wait for us to get to him anyway yeah it's it's good discussion i mean there's the flood of ideas coming to bitcoin is going to be torrential

like it's it's going to be unbelievable it's going to be a lot of volume a lot of noise a lot of signal mixed in there too probably and um yeah i don't i it just doesn't feel to me the smell test is good but you could tell almost immediately from the get-go and you know sometimes you can sometimes you can sometimes you're right but yeah in this case we you i mean i can't i and i'm just yeah yeah this one wasn't that hard right you look at chainway labs and if you don't if you don't like ordinals and descriptions then this is the kind of stuff they're funding and that's you know i i think it's our i know there's like a lot of controversy these days about supporting or not supporting ordinals and inscriptions but at the end of the day it's you know sort of your prerogative

um yeah dave saying bit vm is the same thing bitVM I don't know that much about. I thought these were in the same vein, though. It's using BitVM. Right, okay. So without it, from what I understand, it's not possible to create the roll-up. I forget what the term is. It's not possible to create the roll-up operator. I think that's what the BitVM is.

So executing the... Yeah, trust-minimized two-way uh with bit.vm that's what they're calling it so i mean i'm not technical enough to know what bit.vm is if someone is you know my whatever they're still i don't know trust minimize i don't like i my bigger problem i think with all this stuff is that um and i'm not saying i'm not saying this about us or about other people, but it does seem like if you are against a proposal now, the other side immediately calls you like, you are like painted as a problem for Bitcoin or like you're pro-authentication. I don't know that I'm pro-Bitcoin authentication. I like layer one the way it is. I don't really want to add L2 functionality that doesn't embrace the core tenets of layer one. There is ways to do additional speed and scaling and stuff on layer two. Maybe it's lightning, maybe it's not. are clear present and i do think that there's something to be said about what happened with taproot obviously and the defensive posture is maybe warranted at this point at least for a

little while right we're about to enter into a period of significant change for bitcoin and what you don't need trial should not be used for a very very long time in my opinion we should avoid using that unless that was a weird that was a a weird one, right? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, let's, let's, let's keep going. Yeah. We'll talk about micro strategy and they're following in a CBP footsteps because if anybody's following us,

we report on our buys every month. And so whether you like it or not, MSTR, they announced that they bought more Bitcoin and they did this for the month of January, 2024. And as for the specifics, they bought, and they did this for the month of january 2024 and as for the specifics they bought and i say this only i wish i could only buy this amount 850 bitcoin and it was a total of 37.2 million dollars if you compare this to previous months this in terms of what they

bought 850 it is a very small number i i think but they bought this amount of bitcoin for a reason because this amount of bitcoin got their balance sheet to an even 190 000 bitcoin so it was a they're basically making a statement here so it's a round number i suspect moving forward it's going to be crazy numbers we don't know what's going to be but it's not going to be crazy numbers. We don't know what's going to be, but it's not going to be a round number moving forward. So MSTR stock as of yesterday was up 29% in five days. As of today, I think it went up even higher. I didn't check what it went, but it's been gangbusters

in the past little while. It's been absolutely phenomenal. So anybody who's parked their money in them, good for you if you're a fiat maximalist. So yeah, whether you like it or not they have that bitcoin now the fact that they have it doesn't give them any more privilege it's not like a proof of stake system where they're able to validate more with having more bitcoin they just simply have it and they have more of the asset for better for worse it is what

it is anybody can buy it they chose to buy it and i gotta give them credit they're doing it and they're finding the best way to do it dilution going with a little bit of debt and getting some bitcoin as a result we should have i guess next time we have a buy we should consider bringing somebody on to talk a little bit more about this because this is a it's a very interesting topic a lot of people like to hear about it and we should get some in-depth information about what mstr is doing. SB is a pro. I'm happy to have him on and talk about MSTR anytime. Their earnings was today, right?

Was it? I believe so. I believe it was today or late last week. I forget. Saylor was on with Morgan Brennan, who I have a huge crush on, on CNBC today. I haven't listened to the interview yet, but everyone's talking about the same few things. This obviously transitioned to them being a Bitcoin development company, whatever that means. The Bitcoin buy. And then a word that he's used a lot in the last little while that me and Wayfaring and SB have discussed in a chat that

we have, this word accretive. And I think, Len, you and I talked about this before, that what people should be looking at is the Bitcoin per share of MSTR. And I pulled a tweet from somebody, this is a couple months ago now, we talked about it on the program. He's talking about it the same way now. And I wonder if he was talking about it this way before internally and just came out with it recently, or if he looked at this, saw that it was popular and started to discuss it in his media appearances and on their earnings calls and in their reporting.

The big question that remains for MSTR is, are you going to buy that or are you going to buy one of the ETFs? I don't know. It remains to be seen. You can see very clearly how significant the GBTC outflows were for the first little while, but you can't see the MSTR outflows. And the stock has performed pretty well since the ETF came out. It's not gangbusters, but it's also not clearly suffering from outflows into these ETF products, especially in the United States. So what do you, what can you say about this? I don't know,

man. I don't know. Um, I like to buy, of course. Question is like, what, you know,

what do you, what do you get with it as an MSTR shareholder? You know, what is the benefit to you? Are they going to be in M and a mode at 190,000 Bitcoin, which is 1% of the circulating supply, by the way. Slightly less because it's

19.5-ish million. It's about 1%. I look at that number and it's funny that they got an even amount of Bitcoin. We talked about this. We said this on the show. You can go back 10 episodes or something like that and we talked about it. That 1% number.

I don't know what like what what are you getting for mstr at this point is the question i i don't really understand the answer to i don't think we'll you can we could try to analyze this and this is way out of my wheelhouse so i'm not even going to speculate i guess the only way we'll we'll figure this out is over time and i'm curious to see how it does play out but but I'm not even going to fucking try to guess because I have no clue and I'm going to be 100% wrong if I try. But Fidelity Canada, Joey, talk about Fidelity Canada, Serenity now. A lot of people were foaming at the mouth this past week because it was reported on Twitter. I'm not sure if you saw it.

And even by a few big names on the Bitcoin space, Fidelity Canada has been allocating some bitcoin to their all-in-one etfs and the break count breakdown is one percent of bitcoin for the conservative etf two percent sorry 2.5 percent for their balanced etf and the 3.1 percent for their aggressive etf and everybody was happy and people are saying oh this is an example that you know there's going to be big money coming in it's going to scoop up the existing supply of bitcoin it's going to run out but let's not start sucking each other's dicks quite yet because apparently this is some old shit and digging through this i had to go through the archives here the reality of this news is over two years old so people that are jumping at this and saying this is a point in time we should be cheering

should have did it two years ago because that's when it was first nerd first announced january 2022 to be specific so i just wanted to point this out there for people are cheering and still don't don't quite understand it's a fucking old news item and yeah we could cheer it all you want but it's nothing new this happens a lot in bitcoin twitter like that clip of Obama talking about Swiss bank accounts in your wallet was floating around again last week and that's got to be five years old at this point, four years old, something like that. And it's like,

Obama's got this real Bitcoin. Guys, I've been around long enough that I remember people memeing this four years ago. The cool thing though is that, again, as we've discussed on the show and others have as well, we're not the only ones. There is going to come a time when Fidelity and other major investment firms not only offer these vehicles kind of under the radar, but start to push them.

You know, they'll become popular amongst certain people. There's going to be people who want exposure to the Bitcoin volatility at 1% or 2%. You know, Julian Figueroa, Kinetic Finance and I, a couple weeks ago, were trying to hammer out the details around that Preston Pitch quote that you could go 2% Bitcoin and 98% cash and beat the S&P. I couldn't find the data to back that up. And we found a backtester that seemed to be good. But you do beat the S&P at like 6%, 7%. So maybe people are looking for something like this,

right? Maybe they don't want the full seven, but they want two plus some gold, plus some bonds, plus some cash or something like that, right? Those are conservative portfolio options, those ETFs that are blended. And I can't imagine why they wouldn't put Bitcoin in some of these different ETFs, right? There's going to be a whole generation of young people coming up in the Robin Hood era who maybe don't want to do the self-custody thing right away or have some money in their IRA accounts that's taxable on removal. And they want Bitcoin exposure, but not full Bitcoin exposure, right? They position it defensively. I think I'm thinking in terms of my own investing,

my wife and I have a joint TFSA. It's her TFSA, but I manage it. It's defensively positioned. I would love to get something that was like 80% VFV or XEQT and 20% Bitcoin ETF, but I can't get it there. But I would love to get that at a cheap management fee. These things are all going to come in time. And though this is an old news story, it's going to become a relevant one, I think, pretty soon. There are going to be some of these places that are offering this and positioning their investors, their clients in Bitcoin this way. If you don't like the volatility, we got something that's position size right for you, John Doe, Jane Doe, you're going to love it.

That's the story, right? We like that. The inflows show that there's desire. And I think if you add vehicles like this, those inflows grow even more. In El Salvador, there is somebody or some company that's called Cherito Cafe. Nice. And they're doing something that's very interesting. And they're using the Lightning Network to do it. you go there and you buy from them using the lightning network for payment they have set up their own ln wallet and what this does their special ln wallet that they set up it pays the percentage of the sats that they receive to each employee of the company that helped make the product. So the funds are being sent directly to those most impactful for the creation of the product. So it's not just their own employees, but it's every person along the supply chain that the sats can be sent to indirectly when you make the payments.

That's really, really cool. This wallet is called Expresso Pay. Expresso Pay. Expresso Pay. You can check out their website, www.expressopay.com. It doesn't say very much over there, but that's what it is. And what I like about this is this type of setup, done properly, it could limit corruption right now. So when you do make a payment to somebody, to the vendor, that money then is directed to the people that help make that particular product. So I like seeing these type of projects being built out. And yeah, I just

wanted to report on that because something like this, I wish it could be done over here in Canada, but clearly, you know, we're not as advanced in Bitcoin as El Salvador is, but somebody over there, yeah, the Chirito people, the Chirito Cafe people, they're doing something very unique here and they're ensuring that people, everyone in the supply chain could potentially get some of the stats that are directly owed to them. I like that. It's really cool. I like that too. There was talk years ago about how Bitcoin's transparency would lend itself well to stuff like supply chain management.

I don't remember exactly how that would work. I'm not a logistics expert. But yeah, I mean, all this stuff is going to come in time, right? People like transparency. They like accountability. At least some people. Anyway, I won't mention or say anything more than that. What I like about this, too, is the money is immediately sent over.

It's not like you pay the vendor and you have to wait for much time for the money. It's instant payment and if you're a major uh player in the production of this you're gonna get obviously a little bit bigger of the slice so it uh incentivize incentivizes more product better product and you're gonna get paid for this especially when are we gonna start doing this for like regular payroll i wonder because i think that's a huge thing that we don't talk that often about. We kind of get, I don't want to say lost in the weeds, the ETF and things like this are not in the weeds, but isn't one of the big things that Bitcoin can do, instant settlement,

compared to waiting two weeks or a week for your paycheck? How long is your paycheck in the ether there? It's about a week, right? Seven days, I think? or is it a full two weeks you're always behind i i don't know i don't i don't want to discuss that i forget i forget but like the whole the point it's not a knock like your employer what it is is just us it's something that's worth noting because what you're seeing there is someone parking the money that you've already earned earning interest on it and then paying you later right common in practice yeah

and so like what like we got to get rid of that like coffee shop and supply chain fine but like this is really what we got to be looking at right stuff like this let's let's get this money in the hands of people who earned it faster um well of course this comes at a cost for people who are benefiting from the current system common theme in bitcoin but uh i think it's inevitable in any case let's quickly talk about monero just really really quick got right 40 percent down in one day once they got delisted from binance and then there's a significant like i'll say there's a sizable amount of people that like monero in bitcoin space i don't know why you can't it's great ask mark uh coin shack mark coin shack mark has the biggest hard-on for monero i've ever seen

i love mark he's a great guy like the times i've hung out with him and had him on he's always a good good time but i just don't get it like i i i know why monero is popular it's neat i've held xmr before have you ever held xmr do you know how to hold it and stuff so cool it's like its own little wallet function it's neat it's like it's very close to bitcoin and maybe a little more difficult but um it's it's fine the thing is they can't audit the supply so you can't have the supply forget about that forget forget about don't forget i know what the problems are with it okay but for this story if you're holding XMR, why do you care if it gets delisted from an exchange? Shouldn't that be like the, yes, we're so good that the exchanges can't list us anymore. We have to be buying more.

That's the rationale that I would have if I was holding that token. But it seems like no one actually has that rationale. So if no one holding the token has that rationale, then what's the value i that i'm not sure about i don't know great tick i always i always like the name and i always liked xmr as a ticker symbol but that's about as far as my love for monero goes sorry mark sorry sorry about that mark well anyways backed they might you think mark would ever start the canadian monero podcast and come under the media umbrella? Would we allow it? I don't think...

So a no to the first one and a hard no to the second one. I think the first one is probably a 99.9% no, but the second one is 100% no. It's not to say that he definitely has the charisma to do it. I just, you know, like, come on. Monero? Isn't there a Monero podcast? There's got to say that he definitely has the charisma to do it. I just, you know, like, come on. Monero. Isn't there a Monero podcast? There's got to be a Monero.

This is a podcast for everything. There's got to be a Monero podcast. I know a guy doing a podcast on NHL 94. There's got to be a Monero podcast. Buddy, there's a community for that that's vibrant. They have annual tournaments, the whole nine yards. There is a podcast. There's two of them there's cafe

monero and monero talk well there's a bunch of monero space there's a guy named monero mateo very creative he's got some poor branding he needs to work on his branding he also hasn't put an episode in two years so maybe that's a little bit defunct but um yeah okay cool there you go well i'll quickly talk about, very quick. They might go tits up. And this is the publicly traded company. Remember, they initially tried to get Starbucks or help Starbucks have customers pay with Bitcoin. This was a few years ago, seven, eight years ago, in fact.

But now the company, Bakkt, seems to be in trouble. And it looks like they don't have enough cash in order to make it for the next 12 months. They're out there. They've talked to the SEC. It looks like they're't have enough cash in order to make it for the next 12 months. They're out there. They've talked to the SEC. It looks like they're going to be selling $150 million in securities in order to shore up their financial position. And what's interesting about this, Bakkt, they had at one time a connection with Swan Bitcoin. It seems like Swan, they have the reverse Midas touch.

Because they had a partnership with Swan for Bitcoin trading, liquidity, and custody services. And this is back not too long ago. In fact, let me just click on the tweet. I can tell you. Oh, two years, I had to guess. November 30th, 2023. So we're talking three months ago.

Yeah, not two years. Great. I'm just flying. How does this keep happening to Corey? Like, how does it keep happening? I don't know. I don't know,

but I'll leave it at that. That's it. Another black eyed swan. And like, yeah, the reverse might as touch, whatever they touch, it's turning to shit.

I have, I have nothing to add to that. Whatever. Good luck to them. And good luck to people who are working there job loss sucks but um you know this is a competition land in bitcoin and even in crypto um and and they're intensifying boom dust cafe monero sounds like a great place to get brunch does it i don't know they don't they they tell you that your food costs this much money but you

can't actually verify so anyway well you tell them you paid and they can't confirm that's right i'm settled up i pay what am i talking about i would show you if it was a transparent and open ledger but i can't you fucking got it let me tell you should we move on to uh other notable stories yeah yeah we should definitely do that we're moving on we're moving on to other notable stories? Yeah, we should definitely do that. We're moving on to other notable stories. So if you're listening on audio, tune in tomorrow when other notable stories drops. And stay tuned for the next segment where we discuss those notable stories. Until next time, take care of yourself.

Don't be a cock. Are you a fan of the old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community, check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.