The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #151 (Bitcoin Stories) - What is MSTR Doing, EU/UK Coming After Bitcoin and Miners, Bitcoin Illegal Activity FUD

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Square is making waves -EU to square off against Bitcoiners? -Bitcoin’s alleged illegal use -UK going after self-custody and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: ⁠ ⁠https://discord.gg/ESRCZWpb⁠ A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. Check out the other podcasts on the network: The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast (https://www.youtube.com/c/CanadianBit...) The NHL 94 Podcast (https://www.youtube.com/@NHL94Podcast) Two Whites and a Blue (https://www.youtube.com/@twowhitesand...) Bitcoin and Barbells (https://www.youtube.com/@JoeyBBandBTC)

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. This is episode number 151, like the Bacardi, 75 and a half proof. This one is probably, I i don't know it's gonna be just as strong this episode i think is that bacardi my name is joey here is always my co-host len brother what is going on over there in your neck of the woods not much to say man it's just a family day

let's look around there just check and make sure everything's in the same place left it or what yeah my wife was in cleaning mode today so yeah yeah. So it's just, I don't know. It's a ho-hum day. How about you, Joey? Oh man, things are good. Busy day at work. Good lift today. I got a screw-in steak and a lead for my dog going to the backyard.

Moose met another dog who's like a kitty corner to our backyard. Basil. Super nice dog. Heterochromatic dog. What the super nice dog heterochromatic dog what the problem is now chromatic two different colored eyes and uh so yeah it's not it's like a aussie shepherd mix i think great looking dog very well behaved well mannered the funniest thing is that now that he knows that dog is over there like once every week or so maybe on weekends he sees him he sees him more often than not uh every time he goes

outside he hops my little fence and goes over to the neighbor's house and waits to try and go inside so can't have that can't have that so i gotta lead for him uh until we can get a fence up in the in the spring i don't really want to do it right now but in the spring i'll put something up so i don't have to tie them but yeah everything's good man it's a good day to be a bitcoiner as always and uh you and me have been busy the last week or so you're gonna be busy this week i'm gonna be busy this week we got tons going on um maybe we'll start with the sponsors though as always two great companies easy dns the best place for you to host your website the friendly neighborhood registrar like mark always says uh domain hosting uh made. We got our domain, canadianbitcoiners.com,

which I still haven't renewed, which I have to do. We're going to lose that. Somebody's going to squint on it. Didn't do it. Mark, if you hear this, just put it on my account or whatever. Same credit card. So we got that going on. Also at EasyDNS, whatever you need as far as virtual private server needs,

they got it. So if you want to run an Oster relay, Bitcoin node, BTC pay server, node dis-implementation, all manner of things. Be creative, man. And on top of that, if you have an old website with shitty email service provision and you want to move it over to EasyDNS, Mark will help you with that too. He's got GPG and GPG and PGP privacy options for you. Can't beat it. All there for a reasonable price. And Mark is always in the chat here on Monday nights

and sometimes on other nights too. Easy to get ahold of them. They'll help you with whatever you need. They've done a great job with our website now that we're actually using it, posting some stuff, writing some stuff. Len posts the summaries there for the week coming up every Sunday.

Go visit it. See if you like it. And if you want to start something like that or maybe just put up a website where you talk about your family brownie recipe or something, EZNS will help you. So go over CBP Media as the code. Don't forget

to use that and get 50% off your first buy with them. Who's the other sponsor? Before we even go there, I just want to say one thing, and I want to give a big thank you to Mark, because he did something for our website about how Sabrina set up a gold card made up page specifically for her. Yeah.

Yeah. So I just want to say, he didn't ask him to do it. It is on his own volition. So thank you very much. That's the kind of service you get with easy DNS. But I, then I have to plug the second one because bull Bitcoin,

this is the greatest place in Canada that you could buy a Bitcoin. I can't speak of the rest of the world because I haven't traveled the rest of the world and visited and checked the other exchanges out there. But bull Bitcoin, non-custodial. This is key. Just in fact, in the chat, people are talking about, look what's going on with Coinbase in terms of potentially being 6102. You're not going to have this problem with bull Bitcoin. You could buy your Bitcoin.

It goes directly to the address you provide. They don't hold it, which is fantastic. But it's not only just on-chain. You could also get on lightning as well so if the fees are high which they are not right now we're almost back to single digit sats for b-bite we're very very close but still you have the option if you want to use on chain over there but there's a lot of good things that you could do over there and again we could talk about we'll be talking about this later on again in stupid coinbase story you could pay with your bitcoin and pay your bills with that so and you could use an

unhosted wallet your own wallet you could use to pay bitcoin sorry to pay your bills with bitcoin can't do this with other shitty exchanges think about this coin as a bull bitcoin provides you that you could also buy gift cards and spend this in the real world so many different options bull bitcoin provides you but the best thing they have in my opinion laundry list of great things they have is the kyc free go to canada post unfortunately was closed today at least i think it was closed today whatever it was either way wait till tomorrow give them your canadian dollars they'll load up your bitcoin account with that you could buy kyc free bitcoin that is huge and it's going to be huge moving forward and we'll talk about why

it's huge in today's show yeah huge so great companies definitely check them both out easy and simple busy week last week glenn we had uh three shows the monday rip as always then uh the always gracious always well informed and uh steady fan favorite of the CBP, Faithful. SB came on, talked about Coin, MSTR, and some of the stuff about the ETF and the effects on Bitcoin equities, miners, and whatnot. That was after Coin reported earnings and blew out expectations.

He's been really good to the show over the years, Len, and I'm always impressed with the stuff he brings to the table because he's doing it professionally he's been really good to the show over the years len and i'm always impressed with the stuff he brings to the table because he's doing it professionally don't forget but i you know him and i although we do talk every day i don't give him the questions in advance and uh sometimes i don't think about the questions until we're speaking and you come up with some kind of angle or or you know topic you want to discuss a thread you want to pull on a bit he's always got information and he's accountable uh as far as the answers because he looks at the comments and uh tells me when people get in there so i think boomer told them on twitter that he was that he thought we were bearish i don't know what we were bearish on i thought it was all bull uh content

but uh all the same i thought it was straight talk i don't think you guys were even bearish or bullish you guys were just laying out the facts no no we gotta ask boomer we gotta ask boomer um but i thought it was good so big thanks to him and then uh saturday morning i talked to chris irons with a very special guest appearance uh i want to say guest appearance but it really wasn't a cameo larry was there basically the whole show larry laparte larry has never been on the show before but i had his number from the conference last year. I have a bunch of phone numbers of great Bitcoiners, thankfully, because we were kind of setting up some of these panels and talking about some of the ins and outs of the day. And so I thought while I was walking Moose on Saturday morning,

man, you know who I bet is awake and will be great to surprise Chris with would be Larry. And he was very gracious, agreed to do it, did it in his workout clothes as you may have heard if you listen to the show and if you haven't seen Chris's reaction on video you got to see it he was super pumped and I was really happy about that episode I think it was really good was he doing it from his bedroom in his bed because the angle of that

camera he was like lying if you look at the way he's drinking his coffee I think the bed was like maybe angled up and he's like leaning against it looks like a camera you know what I way he's drinking his coffee, I think the bed was like maybe angled up and he's like leaning against. It looks like a camera. You know what I mean? He's lying down in bed and just looking up. That's the way it looked like to me. Yeah, he told me it was his laptop.

So I think he was probably sitting like I am now, except maybe with his feet out in front of him, right? It was a very interesting setup that he had over there. So a lot of good content that episode. We talked about his old, his sort of old way of thinking, his new way of thinking, the Bitcoin leap, a little bit about Schiff and, you know, where Bitcoin sits as far as his relationship to gold. I thought it was really good. I hope you guys enjoy it. And again, like big thanks to Chris and Larry. I'm a morning guy and I don't mind doing that on a weekend if it makes it easy for the guests. And it was a little bit of sprinkled in content.

And that chat was packed. It was like 50 people there, 60 people there for a couple of minutes, a couple of different times. So I was really happy to see that. I'm glad you guys are morning people too. Now Muslim Bitcoin is in the chat telling me to give my thoughts on the two gold bugs I had on. Those guys are not gold bugs. They are gold investors, I think.

You can't really call them gold bugs anymore. Chris is very chill, QTR. And yeah, I think he thinks about things a lot of the same ways that we do, right? He's a skeptic, self-described. And I think we are too. A lot of stuff we talk about on the show is just us being skeptical or looking through a skeptical lens and some monetary policies and political policies and things like that. I think that's a fair position to have. And if that makes me a boomer, then I'm a boomer too. We're all boomers in here together. So I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. I love the questions and comments that were coming in during the chat. I want to apologize to the chat because it was

busy in the live chat and I was kind of juggling two guests. So it was a little harder for me to get to the chat during the show, but I really enjoyed that. And then Len, this week you have Gabe from Bitcoin Advisors on Wednesday, which is going to be really good. Gabe is a younger guy. I think he's still in his 20s, if I remember correctly. I met him at Innocente with you in September. He's doing a lot of good stuff.

He's got some YouTube, not YouTube, but Twitter videos up now. He's got a little bit of a following there. I'm looking forward to seeing what he gets up to. I think he's going to be a quality Bitcoin or an equality episode. And then I don't want to spoil it, but I believe that same day you also, I'm doing the,

your life, your terms. I don't know if it's going to be with Tom and or Nick. Love to have them both, but I don't know. It's not my call, but yeah, we'll be talking.

I'll be talking to them or one of them about whatever they want to talk almost like the bitcoin and shortly after that we wrap things up we'll be playing some nhl 94 yeah and i'm going to enjoy that so it's going to be a triple head stream it just set your phone up in the corner just stream it so we might have a 2v2 over there who knows because they have the boardroom where they can just hook the uh i love it yeah get nigel to play whoever wants that fourth controller and then thursday night by the way i'm going on uh friend Just hook the computer up. I love it. Yeah, get Nigel to play. Get him in there too. Whoever wants that fourth controller. And then Thursday night, by the way, I'm going on a friend of our show,

Hervoyer Morich's program, TNT, Today's News Talk. I think it's at 720. There's a phone number for that show. So if you guys are interested and are looking to bust my balls in a public forum live on air, you can do it. You can call in. I'm exposing myself a little bit there. Why don't we have our

own call-in? The day we get a live call-in number will be the day that you start doing this show on your own. Could you imagine taking random calls from folks out there? People do it all day long. What do you mean? First time, long time.

That would be amazing. The Jets should be looking to trade Aaron Rodgers. But the problem is we have to have somebody working the switchboard, right? So then it would be a three-person operation. Can Sabrina do it? Sabrina can do a cold card. She can do the board. No?

No, she's got her own thing. So if anybody has intentions of doing it, we don't pay very well. I think we don't pay anything. Send us your applications and let us know if you want to partake and be our switchboard operator. You'll get a lot of credit from us. That's basically it. Maybe rush can call in from.

I think he, he wouldn't troll us to the same degree he does somebody else. So at the very least we'll be too bad. Rush is not around in that. Because he left, right? And he voluntarily left too. And I miss that. He's very

cryptic. We'll just leave it at that. We're getting kind of deep into this. I just want to be very quick with the boost and be quick because we only got one boost, which is very odd. It's from Teets, 500 sats, Love Larry. Now, I just want to say, number one, thank you odd it's from teats 500 sats love larry now i i just want to say number one thank you to teach for providing the 500 sats i took a look at the sats we get on a weekly basis it's been roughly on par to other weeks it's actually slightly more

we got last week people are listening and streaming per minute but not sending us any boosts i suggest turn the streams off send us a boost you get whatever you want read on the air yeah it's the same thing and then you get something that we can read here so that's what i suggest turn the stream off for us don't send us a saturday and even like a hundred sad foods you don't have to send you can literally read anything yeah a shittier boost and you would give us in streaming the sides and then you'll come out ahead it will come out ahead i think too but yeah it's just my two cents but thank you to everybody that's streaming you guys are the best man i i had a had the warm and fuzzies after the saturday show because i just couldn't believe so there's so many

people there to watch that interview and yeah the sport's been amazing anyway let's let's fucking get into it where do you want to start today we got lots to talk about in the bitcoin world don't we yeah well there's another country that just threw their hat into the Bitcoin mining game. And this time, it's Ethiopia. And Ethiopia, they have an abundant amount of hydroelectric energy that they generate. And in fact, 90% of the energy they generate is from hydroelectric. It's very similar to BC. And they're actually in the same situation as BC. They're, in fact, the net importer of energy right now. Soon they'll be a net exporter once their project is the Grand Ethiopian Resistance Dam.

This is a megaproject that is going to generate about 5 gigawatts worth of electricity. It's quite a bit of electricity here. It's going to be the most electricity, actually, that's going to be for the continent of Africa. Anyway, Ethiopia, they entered into a partnership with a subsidiary of West Data Group. And with this partnership, they're going to be mining Bitcoin on behalf of the Ethiopian government. And what is funny about all this thing is because if you look at this report and the news when it came out, the report came out initially saying that the Ethiopian Investment Holdings, EIH, this is the strategic investment arm of the Ethiopian government. That's the one

that reported it. But shortly afterwards, the announcement, they erased in their announcement who was their partner, the West Data Group, and also the number that was being thrown around, 250 million related to this partnership. For some reason, they decided to scrub this information out. But too late. It was already out in the wild. This is, in fact, the second mining project related to this new dam. We talked about a story not too long ago, I think about roughly a month ago on this show about a company from russia named bit cluster and they were assisting with setting up a 120 megawatt bitcoin mining

operation in ethiopia with respect to this dam i'm not sure if this partnership that with the west data group is in conjunction with bitCluster or has any connection with it. I do not know. I've tried looking to see anything. I could not find anything. But still, you have at least these two somewhat related stories. I don't know if it's one story or two. But either way, you have yet another sovereign nation out there that is finding a way to generate wealth. And they're using this excess electricity once they set up this dam. And it's something, this wealth that they're generating, is not tied to the U.S. dollars.

It's de-dollarization that is happening within Ethiopia. And, you know, I like this story. But the best thing I like about this story, I think, Joey, the national currency of Ethiopia is the burr. It's like this was meant to be. this is a fucking meme that has come to life i love it but you know what the hash rate goes up and we've been talking about this for a long time who the fuck's been plugging it in well we have some i'm talking about the asics we have now confirmation at least ethiopia is one that is going to be doing this moving forward i love it

is it more likely in your view that a lot of these countries, you know, not to speak ill of Ethiopia, but you know, we may as well call a spade a spade here. The countries that are on the gold machine gun index, are they the most likely to be mining Bitcoin behind the scenes? You think? I guess the regulations that are prevalent within those jurisdictions are easily to get around and skirt the system. So yes. So yeah,

I would say absolutely you could do whatever you want palms could be greased and things could move ahead regardless of what laws regulations policies are in place absolutely i think so too and i i i can't imagine that too many of these countries with currencies that like no one uses unless they're local economies. Everyone over there, it's probably a dollar economy when people want it to be. So my guess is that you're going to see more and more of this from those countries. I actually like the idea of the gold machine gun index countries doing this because they have the most to gain from getting off the US dollar. And man, what a story it would be if these countries who are on the Wikipedia list

of highest corruption per capita or whatever, highest level of corruption in any government, if they were to get off the IMF teat and international central banks teat and onto Bitcoin and start to see reduction in corruption, what a story that would be. That's really where you have successes. Someone in the chat, I think it was Muslim Bitcoiner as well saying Honduras about a couple of hours ago, I just looked, banned all crypto transactions. You're going to see more countries go that direction too.

Wow, that's news. I know it is news. And so the funny thing I think is you're going to be able to draw a pretty clear line between countries who went one way and countries who went the other. And how long is the time horizon, right? If you asked me three years ago how long it would take to see a difference, I would have said 10 or 15 years. But in El Salvador, mind you, there are some other factors. I admit that. I'll submit to you that there's other things going on there, not just the Bitcoin adoption.

It only took about two years, three years, right, for their economy to start showing signs of growth and for, I think, their credit rating to increase or improve, whatever the terminology is and things like this. So I look forward to seeing the clear delineation between countries who saw the light and countries who maybe didn't. And now we know where Ethiopia sits. So let's, I don't know, wait and see. What else can you say about that? You were saying that you were thinking Ethiopia probably uses the U.S. dollar as the currency of choice within the country come on there's no fucking way they're not using the burr on mass if I had a choice between U.S. dollars Benjamin Franklin's and whatever's on the fucking burr probably that meme of Jerome Powell

who is it on the burr let's see if it's not burr if's not how you know how much one ethiopian burr is in canadian dollars i have no clue if i had to guess i'm gonna guess maybe 150 to one dollar it's uh one ethiopian bird to two canadian cents so it's 50 to one right yeah so i was way i was a third off um now you were talking about the breaking news of Honduras banning Bitcoin within, I guess they call it crypto, within their borders. I just took a look. Show the Muslim Bitcoin for that. I didn't know that. Yeah, I just took a look right now.

I went on Yahoo Finance to look at this. Very preliminary information here. They're stating that it's with the banking institutions. So they're preventing, it's prohibiting institutions under supervision with dealing with digital assets so in terms of their banks they don't want them to deal with it whatsoever they say that there's a crypto friendly initiative within this article that's called bitcoin valley i've never heard of it but um i get that neck of the woods in central america there seems to be a lot let's uh why don't we send julian there to make a documentary why not joy julian get over there buddy i was thinking about a documentary

making we have to be made here buddy i was thinking about you hopping in a war wagon and going south and from what i understand the border is like when you get to the u.s mexican border it's going to be easy to cross and just keep going south and away you go. Especially if you're in a caravan. Hey, so look, check out this thing, the Ethiopian Burr. My only question is why do they have a picture of Niagara Falls on there? Is that something like Victoria Falls or something? I don't know. That's the Ethiopian Burr.

Interesting. I have to get it. I don't know where you're going to get one. people we're gonna go to td and grab one i don't think they keep them in the back you know you go on everywhere else people were purchasing zimbabwe dollars online i'm sure you could pick up one of these burrs somewhere out there in fact we should start selling them on our website i think you're gonna kill it anyways yeah let's let's move on because the financial crimes enforcement network these decels they issued a report this past week vincent so it's it's about highlighting that

there's an increased usage of bitcoin and shit coins for human trafficking and sexual exploitation. Now, keep in mind, this report came out this week. This report is based off data between January 2020 and December 2021. Now, put yourself in what happened between January 20 and December 2021. They're cherry picking data here, because if you look at the price of Bitcoin during this time, what took place with the economy, mainly, you you know there's closures and just about everywhere a lot more people were looking at bitcoin and understanding that it could be used as a medium of exchange so i'm not trying to defend the usage of it in this particular sense but the usage increased everywhere with respect to bitcoin for buying goods for buying shit for purchasing even

this unfortunately just because the adoption of bitcoin went up because you remember the time frame put into context january 2020 to december 2021 a lot happened so i'd love to see the same type of report outline how many people bought cold cards with bitcoin during the same period of time and i'd love to see the overlay. And if there's an exact trend between the two. Think about that. I would imagine there's so much fun around this. And it's uneducated

opinion. And I'm thinking you might as well get Danielle DiMartino Booth come on and give her thoughts about Bitcoin as well. Because this is all fucking bullshit if you ask me. That's funny. What can you say child turns out like human traffickers don't want to make an appointment to go talk to somebody at the bank with a mask on either right so that's all the story you really if you take if you start talking

about like not to make light of this okay but this is obviously terrible i will say though that you know elizabeth warren and others like her not to bring her into the story here, but there's been an attempt, obviously, to paint Bitcoin as this illicit currency. Everyone uses this for illicit activity. It's the main use. It's the key use, the thing that keeps it afloat. We know this isn't true. We've seen this over the years, that the data is cherry-picked, as you said. But I think the more important thing is that you're starting to see certain publications.

I think it was the Wall Street Journal and the Treasury Department basically rebuke Warren in this case with her comments about BTC being used for money laundering and stuff like that. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing other people take shots at this. Now, the problem with debunking every single stupid article is Brandolini's law, right? You got to spend 10 times as much time covering all the bullshit stories and telling people why they're wrong than you do actually making up the bullshit story and getting it to publishers. So I don't expect that we're going to take care of all these things all at once and spend time on this stuff. But Len, I think that more and more, the same machine that sort of churns and helps Wall Street look good for a lot of people is going to start helping Bitcoin look good now that

we're part of this sort of ETF in-group. And I would expect most of these stories to fade away. The thing I think is going to come hard and fast, though, and we're probably going to talk about this, and I think it's on the list, actually. It's not going to be the illicit use, although it may be a wedge into the broader thing and the easier target it's going to be the industrial mining setups uh in the u.s and european union countries and maybe canada as well i don't know if we even have any up here anymore hud eight might still operate up here but not many other places or not many other miners do so i think that overall you know what can you say

about this story besides everyone kind of knows, right? There's a book, I think, called Lying with Data, if I remember correctly, that I think everyone should at least browse or see if your library's got it or get it on Kindle or something. It's kind of a fun read. There's some other ones too. I have one out in the other room there.

Maybe I'll bring it in next week if I remember. But you'd be surprised how many people don't have the literacy to pin down these lies, right? They don't have the financial literacy or the numeracy, I guess would be the word. Speaking of literacy, numeracy would be the word. To really look at data and say, yeah, there's actually other factors at play here. It's not just that human trafficking, Kingpins and Don suddenly all wanted to sweep their ledgers and start using their money to buy people from abroad. It's just not how it works. And I'm glad you pointed that out. I hope other people realize that too. I think that it's because people are very busy with their lives between work, family, play. How much time can they put into debunking and figuring out the data?

It's very difficult to do so. And if you're just basically skimming through an article quickly, you're not going through the nitty gritty. You're basically taking it and, you know, it could go in one ear, not the other, or some of it may stick. But you're not analyzing that information. And this is the reality. And the way the system, the fiat system is set up it's so complex it's it's impossible to grasp everything and i know this isn't truly a fiat story but there's still a connection to it does anybody really understand fiat like the whole system

no i certainly don't and i'm sure you know a lot of people don't and even the people that are the people pulling the triggers they might have a good grasp of it, but still they don't have a total grasp. I'm going to argue that they don't have a total grasp of it. And I'm going to use the interest rates as an example of it. The fact that they were so late to raising them, given the fact that all the data presented that everything that inflation was going to go up and they reacted late goes to show me that they don't know everything with this.

So if those people don't know everything it's hard to i'm not saying you're finding fault but it's hard to say that other people should have the ability to read between the lines and figure out that this is bullshit this is we actually when it comes from sorry go ahead no no go ahead finish finish finish i was gonna say especially when it comes from reputable sources but yeah the the problem i have to as far as like reading stuff and actually narwhal's mentioning in the chat, that's what reminded me. We don't just do this and people don't just do this in fiat land. Bitcoiners do this too.

Like someone tweeted out a Fidelity thing about proof of work today, sometime this morning. And I was like, I'm sure that I've seen this before, but everyone's tweeting out like, oh, new money is entering the arena. These guys are all going to figure this out. Like Fidelity printed that article like five months ago. It's not new. New money is entering the arena. These guys are all going to figure this out. Fidelity printed that article five months ago. It's not new. And Bitcoiners just grab it, latch on.

You didn't even bother to open the fucking link, dude. Don't take shots at... I'm not saying we do this, although I'm sure we do without even knowing it. But don't take shots at people for not reading stuff and then yourself get on this viral, please like my tweet train at 8 30 a.m because fidelity put out something five months ago that you didn't read then and didn't read now either like you're just you're just giving yourself up uh we gotta we gotta do better than that because the crosshairs are on us man in a major way which you know we'll find out in a few other other um stories recovering tonight coinbase commerce

yeah hmm and this coinbase commerce to be perfectly honest i never heard of it until this past week we have talked about on the show before we have but you know what way back when we were in our infancy i think wow this thing never stuck with me but anyways uh my fault we used to talk about a lot more stuff that was on the fringes of like shit that people cared about and then we just stuck to stuff that we really liked and then we think people should know and this one is like this one is popping up now under that second category unfortunately well you know the reality is there's two ways you could go now i'm going to go into the weeds you can both to present a product like we do you could either try to present something which

appeals to a lot of people or you could do something that appeals to you. I'm talking about the people producing it, like Joey and myself. I think we're doing the latter. And for better or for worse, I mean, people like it or not, it appeases us, at least for now. Coinbase Commerce,

from their website, is the most seamless way to start accepting crypto payments this is straight from them and they say it's an easy way to accept payments from around the world instant settlements low fees and broad asset supports and they say it's all built on their on-chain payment protocol and this is an interesting development. And because coming from they have announced that they are no longer going to be accepting payments from self custody wallets or third party exchanges. So if you have a cold card, for instance, unfortunately, out of luck,

you can't use your Sparrow or Electrum to broadcast it because that's a self custody wallet. So if one wants to make a purchase, you know, you got to use one of the something that's a self-custody wallet. So if one wants to make a purchase, you know, you got to use one of the, something that's been assigned to you, KYC, something like that, I guess, or something that is affiliated with Coinbase, at least Coinbase Commerce. But nonetheless, it's funny they're doing this

because, you know, they've even lightning. There's something that you can't use. They should be able to use this. This is a quick way to do anything with commerce especially with bitcoin but they choose not to use it but anyways coinbase brian ceo brian armstrong was saying that this is the fastest checkout today in commerce and is he says that he wants to use erc20 on layer 2 base polygon and shit like that he says that this includes ethereum usdc wrapped bitcoin and thousands of erc20 tokens this is straight from him from a tweet this week so as you can see these are the type of tokens digital assets shit coins that he wants to push to use on this platform and a lot of this i guess would be ky seed so i guess the question i have

is number one who the fuck pays for anything with shit coins compared to bitcoin i guess if you're going to compare i very few people use bitcoin comparatively than say the u.s dollar for paying for shit and i would say for the whole swath of shit coins they probably far less for spending on it to buy shit than Bitcoin. So why the fuck are they pandering to this? Number one. Number two, why are they doing this? It seems like they want to capture so much more information and restrict the ability to transact with your own self-hosted wallet. So KYC for Bitcoin is shut out.

So seeing this, it's another nail in the coffin for these guys. And so much is wrong with them. I don't know. I can't see anything that's good about this. And we'll be talking about ZapRite in a little bit. That's a competitor with news that came up from them this week. It goes to show you that that is a Bitcoin-related company that is for Bitcoiners. And Coinbase and Coinbase Commerce is just a bitcoin related company that's for bitcoin is bitcoiners and coinbase and coinbase

commerce is just a fiat company they're there just to get as much information as possible and regulatory captured all that bullshit all this stuff i fucking hate and on top of that coinbase is used as a custodian for by some of these etfs it's an enormous amount of bitcoin that is being captured in by Coinbase. Do you like this? I certainly don't, but that's just my opinion. You're just absolutely nuking my Coinbase bags. I hope it goes to the roof for you.

I hope it goes to the roof for you. A couple of things of note here. Do you know why they're apparently doing this? I mean, this is the reason they're giving. I'll tell you the reason they're giving, and then I'll tell you the reason I think they're actually doing it. I guess it's to appease regulators. There must be some sort of overarching, somebody pulling this train saying you got to go ahead. I'm curious.

They're having trouble with an EVM stack related to payments, Ethereum virtual machine stack related to Bitcoin payments. But how does an EVM? Your guess is as good as mine. I just had to double check it because I could have swore I saw it earlier. And that is exactly what they're saying. And I even did my usual AI check up here and it's saying the same thing. So whatever that means, I have no fucking idea.

I don't know what an Ethereum virtual machine has to do with Bitcoin payments. It sounds like there's just a smart contract and some other stuff that's involved in getting this to work. I don't know exactly how it goes, but that's fine. Now, I think the real reason, Len, honestly, is because they want to trap people in that ecosystem. And I mean, David Bailey, who's a good friend of yours, I think he was at your Thanksgiving dinner earlier this year or last year. He put out a tweet the other day that was actually yesterday, maybe yesterday or Saturday, I forgot, about the government 6102ing Bitcoin. And he does make the case that, you know, at some point it'll be in their best interest to grab this stuff and give it back to you for some pegged value or something like that. Similarly, they did with gold, right? This makes it a lot easier if the stuff that's bought

on Coinbase is the only stuff that you can use on Coinbase Commerce and Coinbase Commerce proliferates, then that gets to be a much simpler exercise than if you had to do it some other way, right? If you had to use chilling effects or something like that. They want clearly to have everything in a tied up ecosystem. And as you mentioned, the ETFs, I don't know the exact number now. I think it's eight or nine of the ETFs are custodied by Coinbase Custody. And also MicroStrategy is using Coinbase custody. And also, MicroStrategy is using Coinbase custody too.

A portion of their stack. Still not good. Not good. And I got a real beef with this. This is why I said to SB last week that I think this MicroStrategy pivot to a Bitcoin development company, it's bullshit. It's bullshit. Wasn't he trolling? I think that was a troll

to be honest explain explain to me how a guy like sailor who talks about lightning proliferating who talks about payments talks about store value talks about decentralization censorship resistance open source money uses coinbase to custody his coins what does he not get it or is he lying which one do you think is true because one of them is. So this kind of stuff altogether doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But if I think about it through the lens that Bailey put out there yesterday, even though I think he's wrong about some of the stuff he wrote and I tweeted that to him, I just think that I'm looking at this and saying like,

sure does look like this is going to be an easy capture at some point if the government really wants to do it. ETFs, all the Coinbase coins, all going to be in the same place. Let's grab this. It's a national security issue. It's an inflation issue. It's whatever issue. And thanks for playing. Your Bitcoin is not yours anymore.

Good luck. It never was. Yeah. It was just an IOU and they're not gonna honor yeah and boomers boomers in the chat saying don't give bailey that much credit i know people have been saying that for years but i thought bailey's case was pretty convincing save for some of the market cap numbers and i ran it by obviously sb and he had some disagreement as well with some of the you know trillions here trillions there like pretty soon you're talking about real money when he's throwing trillions

around like that and i think bailey's wrong about a couple of those numbers. But overall, it's an interesting picture, a spicy take, which is all people want to do for engagement these days. And I engaged with it, so it worked for me. But yeah, I think there's been a lot of people calling for this being a danger. And it certainly is a danger. How could it not be a danger? People who say, and I think Larry said this either on Saturday or on another show I heard him on, I forget now, you may not think they're going to take gold or Bitcoin. You may not think they're going to seize equities. You may not think there's going to be a bail-in. You may not think there's going to be capital controls, outflow controls, or that your real estate will be used to house newcomers or whatever edge case. You may not think it's going to happen, but you cannot say that it is a 0%

chance, a 0% likelihood. There's just no way you can say that. No sane person would say that these days. Why take a chance with custody, man? Like that's why we, you know, one of the reasons we endorsed Bull and we partnered with them for the show is because it's fucking, you know, not custodial. There's no chance that you're going to get rugged by the Bull Bitcoin team, right? It's just not going to happen. And it's important. Like self-custody is important. There's going to come a time when you will be villainized, right? A lot of people in my mentions saying that, you know, get ready to be blamed for inflation.

I could picture that coming. Couldn't you? Anything is possible, as you mentioned. Anything is possible. There is a non-zero chance for everything you mentioned. Yeah. So why risk it? You know, I can't imagine why you would risk it.

I 100% agree with you. We've been talking about this for quite some time. And the ability to store your Bitcoin and self-host it is one of the fundamentals that make Bitcoin so great. Yeah. And the fact that they could rug this from you or from people that are investing in this, it's done in the past. Gold at one time, they used to have a piece of paper where it was convertible. You got to go to the bank and convert that piece of paper where it was convertible you got to go to the bank and convert that piece of paper it was on the currency for a time was it not up until the 30s i believe it was okay not just the united states also in england the same thing happened

until world war one took place so that the ability to do that was a was there and then after that then countries could do it for next 40 years or so until they decided to fuck that as well and then it's just so yeah this shit has happened right that's the best part like people like it'll never like the equities guys okay to quote our buddy ragnar the macro normies who are like no your equities are safe like like fred krueger who will say your equities are safe. Like Fred Kruger, who will say your equities are safe with a straight face. I want to have him on the show. I might reach out to him and say like, you got to help me understand this. You're saying that there's basically a 0% chance that any of this stuff happens when all of it has already happened. It's already happened.

The US seized foreign reserves. You don't think they'll take your fucking Bitcoin account? You don't think they'll take your fucking ETF coin? You don't think they'll take your fucking bitcoin account you don't think they'll take your fucking etf coin you don't think they'll use your fucking equities of course they'll fucking seize them of course they will if something gets out of hand right like it's not that hard to imagine this these guys went to war over less okay like they'll they'll take your they will take your equities no problem they won't even blink they won't even blink it won't even be on the news okay it is 100 possible that this could happen but it's not to say it's 100 it will happen yeah that i that's why i just want to stress i don't want people to go you know think that oh this is imminent danger no it is a danger it can happen

if or when it's anybody's guess. But by playing these games, you got to understand there is an inherent risk by doing so. There's a risk. And also, I think the Bitcoiners, and again, not to single out Kruger, but he talks a lot about how Bitcoin is going to 100,000, 500,000, a million, in my opinion, you can't make that case that Bitcoin is going to a million and ignore the Armageddon in the traditional system, the Armageddon for governments, the Armageddon for debt spending, the Armageddon for treasury reserves and bonds and retirements. You can't say that it's going to a million, ignore the Armageddon all the way to a million, and then also say, but they'll never seize it. There's rule of law. No, man. No. If it goes to a million, you're going to see a lot of things change in what you can and can't do, what becomes acceptable. The Overton window for peering into your finances and nudging you certain ways, I would guess nudging will become at some point too friendly a term, honestly,

if we see a million dollar Bitcoin. It's going to blow your mind because there's just not a world where Bitcoin gets to a million and there's not chaos. And to control chaos, you have to use the stick. The carrot doesn't work anymore at a million dollar Bitcoin. The stick is what you need and the stick is what you're going to get. So I would, again, like I really do caution people about this. You want to hold your own coins. You do not want to leave your Bitcoin on exchanges in shitty wallets in, you know, multi-signature services, whatever,

like no multi-signature services, services, services services services yeah like don't go to these places who are like we'll hold one we'll give another one to a third party and you can hold one like no no find a better way and this is this is what you're going to start seeing man i think it's coming over and over and over again yeah p-man van asked trump about rule of law i don't know the ins and outs that trump case but man does that sound fishy and uh i think like more and more you're going to start seeing this kind of this like disintegration of a once um stalwart set of institutions in the united states here you could argue it's already started i don't know depends on how you really feel about some of these things but you know we talked on access of, for example, about digital IDs, a story that crept up again today.

Oh, I'm not going to touch that. Yeah. And so that's tough, right? And so I think that you have to be careful with your assets. And Bitcoin is one of the assets that allows you to really be careful and really be secure in your holdings. So why not take advantage of it? That's part of the equation, right? So definitely should be doing that.

You mentioned something, and I want you to extrapolate a little bit more on it you're talking about mstr holding a portion a great deal of their bitcoin reserves with coinbase yeah explain what's the issue with that and i i think well coinbase coinbase puts out uh Coinbase promotes and supports and encourages people to buy some of the least reliable, most fiat, most corporate bullshit tokens on the planet.

They've done it over and over and over again. And securities too. Stuff that were deemed to be secure. I would guess 80% of those tokens have gone down 80 or more whatever that number is i don't know but i bet you it's around there maybe i didn't frame it right what should micro strategy do like what should what should be they should call they should come up with their own uh custody that's what they should do he's a big one yeah go ahead the problem with that is because

they are a publicly traded company and because of that, to provide some assurance to their shareholders, at least the appearance that they're not holding it within house, somebody could then steal that and run away if they just get access to the keys. I'm not sure exactly how they have it set up, three or five or whatever. Find a way. Find a way. Use another company that's not Coinbase then. Use Unchained. Use whoever. So it's not the fact that they're using an external service.

It is. It's Coinbase specifically. The external service is whatever. It's somewhere down the list of things that I don't like. But I agree with you. I'm on a board myself. I know that there's a lot of rules and regs, and you have to contend with problems both perceived and real when it comes to publicly traded companies, if you're on a board one.

So I get that. But the problem is that this guy is now claiming to be running a Bitcoin development company while giving business to maybe the least beneficial in the current sort of modern age Bitcoin company in the world. We didn't even talk about this last week or this week, but I'll try and find the video of the Coinbase, one of the guys from their stablecoin team, basically begging Congress to pull up the ladder and not let anyone else do stables or release IPOs or whatever, trade any of this stuff. They are executing the strategy they should have executed five years ago and didn't for whatever reason. And they're trying to do it now. And Saylor, for all the things he's done well,

if you're running a Bitcoin development company, then show me that you care about Bitcoin development and get away from the company that refuses to implement Lightning, refuses to implement other Layer 2s, refuses to, like their CEO, refuses to fucking say Bitcoin in his tweets, man, most of the time.

Didn't he have a.es in his name? Am I wrong? Probably. Probably. Paul Graywall does their their lead attorney does my bad you know i wouldn't be surprised if armstrong did too at one point the the fact of the matter is like if you if you want to say that you're and it's funny qtr said this on the weekend it's sailor is the head of state for bitcoin not max kaiser like he said thank's Saylor is the head of state for Bitcoin, not Max Keiser, like he said. Thank God.

Saylor is the head of state for the Bitcoin nation, right at the moment. So if he wants to be this quality, showing leadership type, you have to get away from Coinbase. You have to. And to be honest with you, it tells me something, Len,

that we didn't know where the coins were custodied until someone pinned down the MicroStrategy wallets, because he probably realizes too that it looks bad on him and on his company to be using Coinbase when they're clearly not operating in the best interest of Bitcoin as much as they should be. Especially because even the most ardent shitcoiner will tell you that if Bitcoin fails, whatever other garbage they're trading, NFT they have, it's all going you that if Bitcoin fails, whatever other garbage they're trading, NFT they have, it's all going to zero if Bitcoin fails. You need Bitcoin to succeed. Put your chips in that basket first. And then if you want to dabble in bullshit,

once Bitcoin has reached exit velocity, go ahead, do whatever you want. But for now, clearly there's a misalignment between MSTR's new mission and Coinbase's mission. And I expect to hear him say something about this. We shouldn't let him skate. Slay your heroes. Someone should be taking him to task on this. They're not a Bitcoin development company. They are.

MSTR is. I don't care what they say. They're not. Well, that's what I'm saying. Okay, so why is he saying that? Is he lying or does he not understand? That was the original question, right? I honestly think that was a fucking troll.

I don't fucking think that. That was a public, that was an earnings call. Yeah, you can't troll on an earnings call. It's probably fucking illegal. I have no clue what the rules and regulations surrounding that, but come on. Nobody in their right mind is going to say that he,

that micro strategy. TGEM in the chat, friend of the show, TGEM. MSTR as the money, I'll put this up for people on YouTube so you don't have to scroll back. MSTR has the money and lawyers. They should be spearheading figuring out how a public company can do self-custody in a safe and auditable way.

They're taking the easy way out of this bullshit. Fucking right it is, man. Of course it is. Lead the way. It's not like you didn't lead the way on the fucking strategy in the first place. You can't lead the way on this too? There's one commonality with everything here. It's we are dealing with fiat rules that's what

it is if it's if it was outside being publicly traded they could do whatever the fuck they want because they don't have to deal it's a treasury asset like if it's a treasury asset do they have multiple custodians for the rest of their treasury i have no fucking clue probably fucking not honestly i don't know like what like what we have to get away from this i don't like what do you do if they have a whole bun and a gold abundance of gold in their i don't know i don't have a fucking no there's no no gold treasury strategy to look at but to go back because they're publicly traded and we're dealing with these fiat games yeah this is the unfortunate reality if it didn't have to deal with the sec and you're playing within the walled gardens of the publicly traded and we're dealing with these fiat games. Yeah. This is the unfortunate reality. If it didn't have to deal with the sec and you're playing within the walled gardens of the publicly traded forms that they offer, they can do whatever the fuck they want.

They want it. If they want to keep it on a single signature without a passphrase on fucking ledger, they could do that. Nobody could say anything and leave it on a hot wallet. Sucks to do that, but it's their prerogative they could do that but once we're dealing with these fiat fucking rules that's

the reality it's too bad that they have to deal with it and it indirectly impacts us too because what happens with micro strategy 190 000 bitcoin it's a fucking lot one percent one percent they get rug somehow that's going to definitely impact the price of bitcoin moving forward a fucking lot one percent one percent they get rug somehow that's going to definitely impact the price of bitcoin moving forward a lot of trust will be lost and the price will plummet as a result and so it's too bad that it's gotten to this point but you know what the reality is anybody could buy it anybody could buy it anybody do whatever the fuck they want we'll know we'll know if sailor shows up in the coin kite support support chat and Dee is helping him out. It's Syke Mailer or something like that. We'll know right away that it's Mike looking for some support.

Mike, if you want to get the best support, there's a video from Sabrina showing you on how to set up a cold card. She's 10 years old. She's not an engineer like you are. You should be able to do it. If she can do it, you could be able to do this after getting a you know a bad night's sleep it shouldn't be a bad it shouldn't be a problem for you oh man we i think we exhausted this topic i can't believe i took a break from playing diablo 2 resurrected to get mad about mike saylor's bitcoin diablo 2 resurrected yeah it came what wait i love diablo 2 i'm shocked was this a re-release they re-released it a couple years ago and i was gonna play i was

playing something on saturday morning before the show and they had like a valentine's day sale i guess till the 16th or 17th and diablo 2 resurrected was on sale for 15 bucks so i messaged my brother i'm like you have this, right? How is it? He's like, it's great. Sign me up. I'm in. Got it.

I love it. Great loot system. We'll talk about it later. So we have some good news from Square that just came out this past week. And more specifically, it's tied to a company called ZapRite. And ZapRite and Square, well, they have formed a new partnership here. Because ZapRite, for people who are unaware what they are, and in fact, I was unaware

who they were before all this, they have an integrated, they have an ability to sell stuff to merchants by using their platforms. Kind of like the Coinbase Commerce. It's kind of the same thing, but they're more friendly to Bitcoin. So they have integrated Square into their platform.

And this is going to give them the ability, Square customers, for instance, use Lightning and on-chain for payments moving forward. Which I think it's opening up a whole new swath of people that can use Square products to buy stuff. And you could potentially now use Bitcoin on Chain and Lightning to facilitate the payments. And they say through this integration, Square merchants can receive payment in Bitcoin along with fiat. And this is going to also have integration into Apple Pay and Google Pay ecosystem. Although I don't know how, but they say there's going to be integration with each of those. At the moment, ZapRite is only available to u.s customers i'm not sure if they're going to be expanding on outside of u.s but if you are in canada uk wherever and want to take advantage

of this unfortunately they might have zap right local to you but it's not going to be that's in conjunction with square so this is a after talking about coinbase commerce, this is a breath of fresh air. So it's good to talk about this. I don't have nothing else to say except good on Square. I think we had some really bad news from a whole bunch of other companies like Block and shit like that in the last few weeks. So it's good to have some good news coming from Bitcoin related company, at least one that's tangentially related to Bitcoin. Why don't we just wait and see on this and see what kind of adoption, implementation, stuff like that.

It feels like we've talked about similar stories, right? Strike? Maybe. A couple others, I'm sure, over the years. And nothing's really come of any of these things. They've been these sort of false gods that never actually materialize or gain adoption or gain traction. Maybe I'm just missing on the timeline.

I'm being too impatient. But the announcements are big. They're hyped up that, you know, a lot of Bitcoiners talking about it on Twitter. But then there's not much after that. Why don't you talk to me when it's like, you know, significant adoption or significant, you know, growth or proliferation of these kinds of things and people are using the service in a way that makes sense and but for now like you know tell me telling me you can do it isn't the same as telling me that it's being used i think and i think we we've become bad for that

in bitcoin what do you think i can't speak on that, I just want to see the ability, the option available to people. If they're using it, it's their choice, but at least the option is available. And if they choose to use it, all the more power to them. But not having that option, obviously closed doors. So in this case, at least those doors remain open. How often they're going to be used remains to be seen. Yeah.

People don't want to spend Bitcoin either, right? Like that's another big... Yeah. And it's a twofold problem because in a quote unquote bull market, which one could make a very strong argument we're in right now, who the heck wants to spend? But then when the price kind of goes down, who the heck wants to spend then too? Because you're thinking, I could have spent it when it was X price and it's now y price which is much less than x so spending it now doesn't make sense so yeah there's always the threat that no not the threat the idea is like i'm not going to spend it just because of these reasons but also to consider at least in canada i don't know what other jurisdictions spending in canada is a taxable event yeah so that's another

thing that might be preventing people from spending their Bitcoin. And I can understand that, at least in Canada. Off the top of your head, do you know if the United States, they have this type of setup? I think somebody, I want to say maybe it was Dennis Porter or someone else. They were talking about the de minimis rule, right? So if you spend under $50, something like that, there would be no tax on it for capital gains. I think the number may have actually been higher than that. Maybe it's like 500 or something of that nature.

I don't know if it's a $600 number, but it could be. Is that what it was? That was Nancy Pelosi wanting to see everything that you were sending on Venmo, $600. Yeah, I think you're right. But yeah, they came up with a de minimis tax law, but never actually pushed it or passed it. Who knows where it is now? Yeah, I think you're really taking away one of the last hurdles to adoption and know-how. And even if people start using Bitcoin just a little bit, the problem isn't necessarily the Bitcoin usage or adoption. It's like the ethos, right?

You really can't have that ethos spreading that inflation is theft, stuff like that, right? You can't have people tweeting out who will build the roads every time something goes wrong in a municipality. So I think that's the more dangerous thing. And I don't expect that they're going to make it easy for people to get into Bitcoin. Again, both on the spending side and on the idea side. I think both are bad for status quo at the moment.

The UK seems to be making it more difficult for people to onboard or unwrap into bitcoin and i'll explain why because over there we've talked about banks that are preventing customers from sending their money to an exchange to buy bitcoin we also talked about bitcoin atms being outlawed, we even talked about Bitcoin ads being banned. This was several years ago. We talked about this. So somebody reported on Twitter, it was a Kraken user from the UK, and he posted an email that he received from Kraken

saying that the exchange needs to up-to-date information regarding the self-custody wallets. So he's sending the Bitcoin to a self custody wallets. And so Kraken is asking for some up to date information. It's pretty interesting. So they're confirming that the person that is receiving a Bitcoin manages the wallet. And if not, then details need to be provided to who controls that Bitcoin address, and provide their residential address. So not only are they getting KYC Bitcoin from the get-go, they also want to confirm the address it's being sent to belongs to the person that they're sending it to.

So if you look at this, the UK has been pretty tough with respect to Bitcoiners. And even EU in general, things are going in the wrong direction. But we'll talk about that later. If I were a customer in the UK, I would strongly suggest... Leaving, leaving the country, sailing away. Maybe you have friends or family in a job you can't leave, but if you're there, I would strongly suggest looking into decentralized exchanges or peer-to-peer services, as long as the laws allow it. I don't know what the UK laws are. Maybe it is against the law,

and this is bad advice, but if they do allow it certainly look into something like bisque huddle huddle robosats shit like that because you don't want to give up this information if you don't have to and you might have to pay a premium to buy from those services i mentioned but in doing so you are ensuring privacy moving forward remember bitcoin is a open and transparent ledger. Would you want anybody to know where and when you're spending your fiat dollars? Like if you go to the grocery store, they can look at the ledger and say, oh, fuck, you spent X amount at this grocery

store. You wouldn't want that. Why would you want the same with Bitcoin? It's not for hiding for taxation purposes or whatever. It's remaining anonymous when spending it. That's my opinion. So that's what i suggest for people in the uk definitely look at these decentralized exchanges or other peer-to-peer services find a way to use it as long as it's legal again i don't know if it is legal in the uk do your own research

but that's all i got to say about this how high would an atm fee have to be before you don't consider it just part of the cost of doing business when laws like this start to show up? We're lucky here that we have Bull Bitcoin where you can buy KYC free, but basically zero additional fee. But, you know, other friend of the show, Adam O'Brien, CEO of Bitcoin Well, who was a sponsor of the show for a hot minute. That's how much we like Bitcoin Well. We like Adam. That's how much we like Bitcoin Well and we like Atom. We thought at the time before Bull came out with their service that the ATM fee, even if it's 20%, 15%, it's still better than having a KYC stack. I just want to interrupt. It was usually between 10% and 15% for-

10% and 15%. Okay. Between Bitcoin Well. Sorry. I just wanted to clarify. No, no. That's true. That's true.

I mean, do you still feel that way? If you were living over there, you'd still pay the- So maybe the answer isn't necessarily BISC or HODL. HODL. Those are good, but present different risks. Maybe the answer is the ATM. If there's Bitcoin ATMs- I think they're outlawed there.

Get your- Are they really? Are they outlawed over there? Come on. I believe so. Wow. I think get your, uh, get you. Uh, are they really, you think they're, are they outlawed over there? Come on. I believe so. Wow. Some very preliminary research.

They used to have that, but I think that they're no longer allowed. They might find some rogues once around, but correct me if I'm wrong. Obviously I don't live there. And this is all just from what I quickly gathered a bit. Yeah. So if that's the case,

you're stuck using those services. I mentioned biscuit. I think that comes with some sort of protection there's like a pool of funds in case there is a um a complaint yeah that's true but at the end of the day like i mean i haven't used i haven't signed on to bisque in a while i used to have it on this machine when i was just fucking around with it but i think you have to still either meet with somebody or send cash from a bank account and it depends what they expect they're accepting it could be e-transfer it could be a number of different things but it's really what the recipient receipt it's still tied to you

somehow right like the bank can still say like you sent this person money what did you send them the money for so here's one robosax you could send gift cards you could send a gift card and my thing that would clearly break the time you could go to to uh shoppers drug mart or walmart that's a great obfuscation measure yeah so there are options available um just again i don't know if it's legal there i don't know i don't know essentially so and so you're saying you're asking what what percentage i don't know what the percentage is in terms of like for me to pay extra for KYC free and bull Bitcoin, I hope you don't implement this.

I was doing 10 to 15% before bull Bitcoin allowed the Canada post thing. And I was doing with the knowledge that moving forward, the price of Bitcoin would be much higher than 10 to 15% and I'm buying that day. I'm happy I did it. Yeah, I think everyone's going to be happy. We both know a guy who I won't dox, who's only ever bought Bitcoin dating back like five or six years at ATMs and spreads the buys around to different ATMs all over the place.

So it's not to be like easily traceable. Cool. Wow. That was a good idea. I have to give that to him. He's ahead of his time. He is definitely ahead of his time. Yeah.

Actually, he's a large stack. Because, you know, then you're going to have to use a mixing service or something, you know, to break the trail. Just, and then you don't know what's going to come with the legalities and all that moving forward.

I mean, you expect that you wouldn't get rugged, but you know what I mean? There's always that, that at least for me that hint of doubt in my mind when i know when i buy kyc free fuck i'm happy with that i gotta go tomorrow now i always this always happens to me when i do the show i'm always like oh god i gotta go buy another fucking chunk they do i i still listen i'll be honest with you, Len. I still use both. So, uh, you know what? I'll, I'll say it here.

A hundred percent. I haven't bought in close to a year. It's been KYC free since like almost a year. And I'm very happy. I, on this path and I have no other way. I'm going to buy it. Fuck that. I, I'm not going to give it up. That information strong. And yeah, a year and i'm very happy i'm on this path and i have no other way i'm gonna buy it fuck that i i'm not gonna give it up that information strong and yeah should we uh move to other notable

stories we shall okay okay thanks for tuning in everyone on the audio side if you're on video just do nothing get a another fizzy water or whatever and come on back join us here in the basement for other notable stories. Things have become very notable this week. There's a lot of notability in these stories, so you're really going to like it. And yeah, until then, take care of yourself. Yeah, take care. Don't be a

macaque. Are you a fan of the old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.