The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #152 (Bitcoin News) - Marathon's SlipStream, Miners vs POTUS, Braiins Goes LN

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Marathon’s ordinal gambit -Miners fighting back against the US Government -Braiins payments to be lightning fast -Reddit scooping up corn and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: ⁠https://discord.gg/VvCPubra A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The views and opinions expressed by guests of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Joey and Len or the program. Friends and enemies, welcome back to another episode of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast here on the CBP Media Network. My name is Joey, as always, joined by my friend and co-host Len. Buddy, what is going on over there? Great day to be a Bitcoiner, wouldn't you say? I think so, unless you're looking to stack some more, then you're probably a little pissed off that the price action was what it was. Honestly, for me, I have my stacking goal for 2024, and this price action, not happy with it in that regard. But you know what? Another side, I'm happy because it's just solidifying the fact that Bitcoin is the next big thing. It's actually

the big thing right now and for the future. How are you, Joey? I'm great, man. It was a good day, good weekend. Getting warmer out. I was just saying to you before we went live here, just got back from taking Moose for his third or fourth walk, third walk today. Guy's got nothing but energy, that little pup.

So he's taking a lot of my time wandering around the neighborhood. He's got a little fan club. My wife was telling me that these two old ladies stop her pretty much every day in the, in the park here in Dundas to try and give him a treat. And she's had to stop taking them because he's got some soft turds once in a while. And they're not cleaning,

they're not cleaning up the soft turds. We are. So no more treats from strangers in the park, but no, things are good, man. Things are good. Bring the gloves, Joey.

Yeah, exactly. It's hard. Let me tell you, he's a two-bagger, I call him. You get your two bags on every walk. Anyway, lots to discuss tonight. Maybe we should start with the sponsors, as we always do. EZDNS, best place for you to host your content. Your friendly neighborhood registrar.

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moving from one email server provider to another. Mark can help you with that. They have GPG and PGP email privacy tools over at EasyDNS, which is fantastic. Plus, if you listen to Access to Easy, you know that Mark and team are always implementing new products, iterating on what they've already built to make your experience not only safer, but easier.

And you can't really beat that. I got to tell you, me and Len have used them, uh, for better part of a year now. I think we're about a year with EasyDNS as the website hoster and a year plus, uh, as a sponsor. It's been fantastic. I know a lot of you guys have reached out to Mark already. Please continue to do so. And if you do, tell him we sent you to use the code CBP media and you get your first round of buys 50% off, which you can't beat once you start uh you can't stop so head over take a look and uh see what you think i'm sure that whatever you're thinking about starting mark and i'll be with it so uh definitely take a look who else we got oh sorry

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Also, you could go to, I want Bitcoin.ca. That's another way to your account. No questions asked. As long as you meet the threshold for funding your account. Also, you could go to, I want Bitcoin.ca. That's another way to do it. Hi, May Garcia in the chat saying it, uh, when you joined the live stream,

the video that came up, the ad was for visa. I don't know. I'll tell you. Okay. We are, we have no control over this. That's the reality of it.

You're not visa. Enjoy yours. And actually they don't pay us. The funny thing is there's two different options you could either monetize the video click it on or click it off and either one if you whatever what you select it's still going to send ads to the viewer so it's there's no way to ultimately turn it off i wish there was a way and i would do that but it's too bad screw you visa yeah is what it is So let's do a little housekeeping here.

Last week was a busy week. We had Gabe from Bitcoin Advisors. Very good interview. Gabe was the guy we met at a meetup. I think I've only met him once or twice. Good guy. Smart guy. Works in finance and is trying to get people onboarded.

He's got a couple of good videos on his Twitter feed of him doing his best onboarding and is in his local area, I suppose, or around where he lives or where he works, which is nice. So that was a good interview. I did her boy, Morich's TNT radio show on Thursday night.

That was a fun rip. His, his team, they're very professional. Always, always, always happy to talk with him. And I think he's,

he's going to become a friend of the show he's a guy who's really plugged into a lot of stuff going on i recommend checking out his geopolitics and empire podcast is he rescheduled he's not yet you rescheduled with the caraz brothers right yeah my daughter has been ill for the past she's now she's good now she's back at school but last week she was off the whole week from school in fact i think it was family day two and a monday yeah so she didn't have to go to school how many cold card videos did she make while she was off zero she was under the weather joey she there was nothing we could do with her this is not gonna work for the network okay we gotta figure this out we need content i know i

gotta crack the whip harder especially given the fact that the last video i i titled it a 10 year old and she's only gonna be 10 for for another, well, less than two months. So I got to, yeah. Not as impressive when they're 11. Is that what you're saying? I think so. I think that's the case.

It's less impressive every year. I have either two or four videos between those two that I want to do with her. And we'll just have to, yeah, the first one took a while to get to do. So yeah, we'll see. We'll get them done.

I was saying before we started that I want to reconfigure this this room you guys might notice i'm sitting a little closer to the camera today try and create some depth i i gotta mess around with this stuff if you have any interest in me making a video on how to do a home studio on what i would consider to be on a budget like we didn't spend a lot of money on av gear it's just kind of about which gear you bought and where you where you stick it if you want to see that i'll make the video because i want to learn how to do some video editing anyway. So you let me know. And if it's something you guys want,

I will do it this week on the show. Who do we have on Wednesday? Oh man. Who do we have on this Wednesday? Oh, I have straight Dan and yeah. Yeah. And Dan and Mike.

Yeah. So Mike was a tough nut to crack last time. And when I was on their show, he was very quiet. I want to see if I can get him to break out of his shell. And, yeah, I look forward to chatting with them because, well, maybe they can spark one up while they're on with me. I can't guarantee that, but I'll see if they're willing to do that. But, yeah, the High Hash Rate Boys are going to be coming on

on Wednesday at 7 p.m. If you want to hear them, come on in. And if you have any specific questions you want to hear them asked, uh, directed to them, let me know. I'll be happy to ask them. So that's going to be a fun interview.

Yeah. Looking forward to that. We are booking guests out in April and may right now. That's my bad. Sorry. No, it's okay. That's good,

buddy. I'm happy to, uh, to chime in on the interview whenever you need, as long as give me a couple of days notice, you don't have to, you don't have to rip for seven more weeks if you don't want. Um,

if you guys want to see certain guests, let us know. We're at the point now where we can get, I think, you know, I don't want to jinx it, but more or less anybody not named Michael Saylor without too, too much difficulty.

I have a few names in mind. One that I haven't told Len about that he's going to not love, but I'm going to do it anyway because we're 50, 50 shareholders in the corporation. So it looks like a boycott is going to be going on if there's going to be i think i don't think you're going to be in the chat for that one let me let me guess let me guess is it uh initials db yeah yeah i have no idea why you would want to give somebody on who has that type of background a forum a forum which we built oh yeah well we have built this this is what you know nobody else has done it besides yeah he's he's gonna come with

mark goodwin i think i'm gonna take both of them at once and i want to talk to them about a few things and i'm gonna be critical of a number of strategies they've employed i think they would appreciate that and uh i also want to talk to them more about, I kind of want to talk to them though about some of the things we've seen in VC related Bitcoin stuff, because this seems to be popping up all over the place. If I listen to some of the, I mean, I don't want to go too deep on this, but a lot of podcasts I listen to now, suddenly talking about Bitcoin investments and investing in Bitcoin companies. And maybe it's just a blind spot for you and me, but I don't see that many Bitcoin companies just popping up. So I want to

know what their VC arm is doing because they have a VC arm there at Bitcoin Magazine. It's UTXO management or something? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So outside of the ordinal stuff, what are they investing in? I want to know because those guys, whether I like it or not, and whether I agree with all their investment strategies or not, have the firepower with all their investment strategies or not, have the firepower to make or break probably a small company. So I want to know what they're looking at. And also, I really like Mark Goodwin. Mark Goodwin was on the show before, and he's doing a lot of work on CBDCs. I don't know, Len, if you listen to him and Whitney Webb at all do the circuit recently. They did Marty's show, McCormick's show, talking about a lot of the tie-ins the CBDCs have to modern wealth

structures and where you can find some of these connections in Bitcoin and crypto as well. And I've enjoyed listening to that. It's good information to know. It's kind of a know your enemy type thing. And I would recommend people listen to Mark and Whitney. So I don't know when they're going to come, but they're going to come. And I'm going to try and make that a valuable episode for everybody.

We have Floyd Marinescu coming on in the summertime as well in May, who's Mr. UBI, Mr. Land Value Tax. Yes, that's both. He is both, but I associate him more towards the latter. He's both. Him and I are going to have a few disagreements. He may actually be in this chair when he comes to the show and uh you know like always i'll i'll have a beer we'll i'll buy him dinner if he wants and uh we'll see where we agree when we disagree but i'm looking forward to that show as well let's make it let's make this like a uh universal basic dinner i think that's a better way of doing it we all

from each according to their means and to each according to their need is that the uh that's the slogan for anyway so that's gonna be good mark but i want to know um if you guys have any other guests in mind send them to me dm dm them or mention me uh like at at mention me on twitter or whatever at mention my boomer or what and At mention, am I a boomer or what? And hit me with the names, people you want to see on the show. Like I said, we are booking now into April, May. Summertime, you might see a lot of Len and I because people are on vacation. So maybe it'll be harder to get guests then.

But for now, let's say April and May. We'll do an outdoor episode. You got to come to my house and do an episode. Bring your computer and come to my house. How's the back here? Let's set it up. Let's do it there. We can do it wherever you want. There we go.

Could we have a bonfire and everything? We might as well do the whole nine yards. I got to set it up. You help me build the deck and we'll record on the deck. Anyway, look, we're going long on BTC. Boost. hit us with the boost i blame this going long all on db by the way so this is a moat btc dick 550 sats thank you very much i ordered my cold card q lads and i gotta say i'm absolutely stoked very excited to mothball my ledger and yeah i think that's a really good idea to mothball your ledger i know some other person in our discord that also did the same very recently but now with the queue with the

i think with a cold card but mo btc dick does another one 550 sats second time he says let's get those boost ups pled so yeah because last week we got no boost it was all just no one wants to part with the money now no but he streamed us the same amount of stats. We didn't get any more, any less in that week. It was just odd that nobody wanted to send a message. Like I said, turn off the streaming of the stats. Send us a note. Even decrease the amount that you would normally send

in the streaming side of things. You come out ahead and at least you send a message that we can read here. Mix, 1,000 stats. Maybe you could pay the switchboard operator with boosts that's an option i'll talk to my wife my wife does pottery classes on monday night during the podcast anyway so i doubt she'll give that up in favor of running the board and we have somebody in mind maybe we should bring it on to do the uh the switchboards and we'll talk about this later bobo tummy a thousand sats first time i disagree with joey true detective season

four was at least 7.5 out of 10 you think seven i don't know oh man i gotta give me okay so i've had some time to think on true detective season four my wife's giving me a hard time she's like you don't like it because it's a female lead that's not true okay i played horizon both horizon games it's a female uh protagonist i've liked other shows Horizon games, the female protagonist. I've liked other shows and movies with a female protagonist. That's not the problem. My problem is that I think if you gave that show a fair shake and took off the True Detective veneer, you would like the show.

It'd be a good kind of detective show, sci-fi, kind of supernatural stuff. But True Detective is not meant to be that. And it hasn't been that in the last three years. And maybe I'm gatekeeping a little bit on the True Detective side of things. But come on. You can't tell me that that was better than season one, season three. Season two, I give you. The Vince Vaughn one, didn't love that one.

But I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. I can't remember what I gave it. Maybe I gave it like a three or four. Maybe I'll bump it to a five, six. That's still a huge disparity between seven point five you're not getting me over seven no way everyone should be watching love is blind now anyway your focus should be on the most recent season of love is blind which is incredible garbage tv

story for another time anyway jeff stark 2 112 stats and he said i boosted 2 112 thanks you for that he said thank you both for great thoughtful content with a healthy dose of fun. Now, Joey, he poses a question here. Go. He says, I must have missed something recently. He says, what's up with the name change for some of those episodes? All you can say is, just do it. Listen, you will notice.

You will notice. Do you want to talk about this? Should we talk about this? You probably should. Maybe self-preservation. Maybe not the name change, but do you want to talk about the back catalog a little bit because i'm getting like i've already had a couple people reach out and they have questions about videos and whatnot so only one has reached out to me and i've made a uh i made it live so no i mean what could i say if you want to go ahead and take a stab. You will notice that we pulled down most of, if not all, the old content for now.

I'm not going to say why. I'm not going to say for how long. But I will say that if you want to see something from that catalog, something specific, don't make me hunt something down or ask for an episode number. I don't have time to look. But if you remember something and you're like, what did they say about that? I want to see. Just shoot me a message and I'll send you the video. Actually, I have to send Taylor Sugar the video from his most recent pod.

I forgot to send it to him. I don't have to tell you why. I'm sure you guys can figure out why. But we'll just leave it at that for now. The show is going to continue. The quality is going to remain. Maybe the angle, let's say, will change a little bit. But otherwise, I wouldn't worry about anything.

We're cooking over here. The content is pretty much going to stay the same. Anyways, Bitcoin news, Joey. We've got to hit that up. Let's go. Let's go. I know you want to talk Slipstream, so you may as well start there. Well, we could talk about Marathon proving once again to be a shitty actor.

They seem to be doing this over and over again. Before we do, we should at least go over their history to give some context here. Go ahead. They have a mining pool, right? The Mara pool. It's quite a big mining pool comparatively. So in 2021, so not too long ago, just three years ago,

they were at that time very proud and they came out with a very nice announcement that they were fully compliant with the Office of foreign assets assets control in other words they were sanctioning transactions as per that office and so obviously how good of this could how good can this be if you have a mining pool out there sanctioning transactions well not good enough because what happened they took a lot of flack and they quickly pivoted as a result of all the flack they got and they turned around and stopped doing this so there

you go so they were on side with doing that this type of thing censoring transaction sanctioning transaction this is something which is not very bitcoin-esque but they were doing this but you know they have every right to do this kind of shit right they set this stuff up but at the same time miners have every right to point their hash rate to whatever pool they want to choose and so that's you could basically vote with your hash rate so and i suggest people that are have mining equipment consider marapool is something you don't want to send your hash rate to but anyways i'll going further do you know who's the main sponsor of the bitcoin and name only conference is it marathon it was it was marathon it's a marathon this year i haven't looked it sure is i love connecting dots because you know you think about what's this story and again there so anyways

love connecting these dots and in his past Marathon, they launched to the world another proud announcement from them, a new direct Bitcoin transaction submission service. And it's called Slipstream. And for people that are unaware, they say this is a way to streamline the process to add complex transactions into a block. And this isn't going to be used for transactions that Bob and Alice tend to do. This is something that is beyond that, or Bob and Alice or vice versa. But anyways, no slipstream is going to be used as a way to be paid extra to add trash to a block.'s essentially it and this is all going to be done out of bounds it's out of band yeah it's all out of this is going to be done by somebody goes to them or uses a slipstream for service payment is done it's otc it's otc block space basically

it's it's a way of getting around the mempool you're not broadcasting and just kind of doing it this way it seems at least to me i could be wrong. And so Mara Marathon, they're a large Bitcoin mining company, one of the largest publicly traded Bitcoin mining companies out there. And they're going to be leveraging their position not only as a large Bitcoin mining company, but also as a pool operator, a relatively large one. And they're going to try to use this as a way to make this all a reality. And they say that they're going to be able to charge a premium to have these complex transactions added to the next block. And as I mentioned, thereby it's going to be circumventing the mempool. So normally if you're going to do a transaction it's broadcast through hopefully your node, sent out, added to mempools

everywhere, and eventually a miner picks it up and adds it to the next block. No, no, transaction is broadcast through hopefully your node sent out added to mem pools everywhere and eventually a miner picks it up and adds it to next box no no no slipstream is something different so the incentive is the potential to earn money they are business they have every right to do this that is fine they're legally required they're public to make money is that a legal requirement i think i don't know they're leaving leaving stuff on the table. They're risking their executive positions by not doing this, I would say. But anyway, go ahead. Keep going. So that's the incentive here. They're going to get paid more money. But who pays the cost here? Well, aside from the shitcoiners that are actually going to pay real money, actual money to use the service, there's also another hidden cost. And it's the network itself that

could potentially get clogged more frequently as absolute trash is mined into the next block. And if you take a look at these slipstream transactions, if you go on any block explorer to take a look at what it looks like, they got a fuckload of

outputs. And that, what does this mean? And I'm going to just quote, I'll try to quote Guy Swan as best I could. I hope he did quoted this one, but he's a guy that I associate it with. He says they're going to be taking a shit in a public park. That's what essentially they're doing here. In this case, it's going to be the Bitcoin network. That's the reality.

But as a side note, does anyone remember not too long ago september of last year when marathon mined an invalid block you remember talking about this joey not too long ago yeah and i'm wondering the reasons why that happened if they were running something like this right they say that they were running an experiment this is from them on with a developmental pool and research potential methods to operize their operations and hmm so was this a mistake on their part were they running slipstream behind the scenes at that time and something didn't go as planned and they as a result this they mined in invalid block i don't know but it's something to consider this happened just not too long ago september of last year. Marathon was responsible for an invalid block.

So on the horizon, what we have, aside from this, is something called Runes. It's a new project. I don't know if you want to fucking, I can't believe I'm talking about this, but it's best to at least acknowledge that. Coming soon to CBP, Casey Rodimer talking Runes. So this Runes thing, along with slipstream, it threatens to jack up fees once again.

Right now, if you look at the fees, they're relatively low. They're manageable. You could easily consolidate your transactions, your UTXOs with very little cost. But as fees go up, that's lost. So here's what I suggest. And this is aside from the usual, usual stuff where you say buy KYC free Bitcoin, use a cold card, cold storage, a whole nine yards. Consider consolidating your transactions ASAP before it's too late. The best time to do it was yesterday. The second best

time to do it is today. I honestly believe that if you do that, you do it right. You will be thanking yourself, your future self will be thanking yourself your future self will be thanking yourself for doing it if not you'll be kicking yourself you didn't do this now a side note here what size transaction do you want to consolidate to you hear 1 million sats whatever you think is best you may want to have multiple 1 millions or even some that's larger whatever you think is best but the reality is there's an opportunity now to consolidate your utxos on a cheap do it because this ruins stuff once it gets goes live i block eight four zero zero zero so it's the having it's going to be april 20th whatever it may be so you can actually say when the having takes place this ruins project

becomes live that's when potentially fees may spike do your etxos long before do it today if you need help i'll help you out and do it but that's all i gotta say marathon bad actor once again what why do you say i mean i get why you're saying bad actor but what do you suggest they do instead in terms of not doing slipstream in terms of not mining sanctioned transactions in terms of not doing slipstream, in terms of not mining sanctioned transactions, in terms of not employing lobbyists that are lobbying, God knows what are they trying to do? There's a number of different things I just said right there. The slipstream thing to me is like,

it's honestly minor, no pun intended, because they've been doing this anyways, I think. And I have in my notes that they own the pool, so they can do really whatever they want. They have a ton of hash rate. The mining pool is theirs. So yeah, they're going to do this stuff. I expect HUT to start doing this too at some point. HUT, I don't think is running its own pool now, but has something like 10% of the hash. So these guys are all going to start their own mining pools. Brains and these other pools i if i had to guess honestly are not

long for this world all the majors are going to do this because this is where the money is you can then use out of band fees uh you know this kind of otc block space set up to maximize your profit i mean what was marathon up today in in private markets or public markets is 22 23 is a lot like people comparatively to other like that you're taking everything was up i i get i i see that i can see that but but it's not a result of this announcement it's a result of bitcoin going up six six percent in a day if people didn't like the announcement maybe it wouldn't have been in the top two or three risers but it was like like generally the public markets are telling you what they want from marathon what they like about marathon and people want this stuff now i don't know you and me don't see eye to eye i don't

think at least not exactly on this like this what is a valid or like a good quote-unquote good bitcoin transaction it's i don't want to go down that road like personally with like we can go down it together here i don't know if we're going to hold hands and skip on the way down but we're going to go down the road anyway the the like when you say good bitcoin transaction like a proper bitcoin transaction like how how are how are we supposed to define that going forward are we not are we not making the same judgment that they are making at marathon or ordinals people are making or anyone else is making when they put arbitrary data into a UTXO? Are we not both judging good to be something different and just deciding that we want a

picture or whatever? I mean, these guys are calling it complex transactions. That's obviously bullshit. Ordinal is another kind of what I view as just kind of worthless info data. But at the end of the day, it's in consensus. And so what, again, I appreciate that people don't like this, but I always am curious, what is the alternative here? When you have public miners, you have fiduciary responsibilities, you have people's executive positions at risk, you have shareholders who want to be appeased, what is the alternative? They're looking at the game theory. They're playing it the best way they know how.

And honestly, if you look at this as two sides, I don't think that either of us really view it like this for the moment. Maybe you do. I don't know. But I don't think of us as playing a different game than Marathon is. I think my transaction that doesn't have junk data is one that's important or more important to me. They think the one that has the junk data is more important and they're both willing consensus. Someone is

willing to pay, the block space gets more valuable and Bob's your uncle, right? It just kind of cycles through. Now, the other part of me says that even the people who hate this stuff have to admit that the cure for expensive block space is expensive block space. And you end up with prices coming down because people just can't afford it. They're like, I'll wait to mint. And although that number may settle higher as more of these industrial miners or, yeah, we'll call them industrial miners, as more of the industrial miners start to do out-of-band transactions. I mean, at what point do we have to talk about whether or not Bitcoin block space was just too cheap in the last three or four years?

We didn't have global adoption in the last three or four years. We didn't have global adoption in the last three or four years. Now you have an ETF, you have people talking about adding it to balance sheets. You got everyone talking about fair accounting rules and stuff like that. If we really think this is going to grow, you're not going to be able to settle on layer one anyway. Ordinal is going to be the least of your worries. And it's funny, people are talking about million sat transaction, 5 million sat transaction. I think those are good numbers today, maybe for the next year or two years, who knows, right? But if this thing goes to a million bucks, Len, it's not going to be enough, right? You're going to need more in your UTXO than that.

You're going to be paying tons in fees because everybody's going to want the most valuable block space, which is what we have. And everyone's going to want to get their data through as quickly as possible, which is their rights, their prerogative, and they'll pay whatever they think it's worth. And so I don't understand why we think that we have a say over what the network does. Now, there's the fix the filters people who will say, change your node to do certain things. Fine, do it. But at the end of the day, if that's what we're doing then are we not censoring transactions like like this is this is the road you are essentially having your mempool clear up

the garbage you don't want and having it run more efficiently because we don't have an infinite amount of resources on our computer running a node and as a result you're flushing out the junk the junk and just i think it's a slippery slippery path i think it's a slippery path they call it which what i mean it's not a censorship by just deleting it from my mempool it's still out there it's just making my my mempool clean of the stuff i don't need i don't have unlimited ram i only have limited amount of ram and i'm only allocating 300 megabytes for ram pool why should i have x amount of that 300 for this junk do you have a view do you have a view on whether or not block space was underpriced for the last five years

i have no view on that i i really think this is something we should be talking about more maybe not me and you but as like in general the bitcoiners the ones who are like the most zealous about block space now you know these are the same people generally speaking and i would include myself in this that were preaching about how this thing was going to a million and was going to become global money did you really think you would settle for a penny forever i don't know it obviously was it wasn't going to be there forever given the fact that you know what is it five to seven transactions per second whatever the fuck it is i don't know

if it's been improved but it's just it's not possible to maintain that now you're right this is all you know it's within consensus they could do what they want their business like i say but what we could do is we could you know um educate people if miners then want to point their hash rate to a different pool which decreases the hash rate that mara pool gets. That's one way. And you could look at that. That could be one way for the general community to vote as displeasure in this type of move. We could look at what Ocean is doing as the exact opposite.

And if more and more hash rate goes to them, that is a vote for what they are doing. So that is one. So yeah, it's within consensus. And just because it's within consensus and everything doesn't mean it's good for everything. We could still judge something, regardless if it's in consensus or not. I mean, a packet is a packet when you send it over an internet,

but a DDoS attack is still a valid packet that you're sending but the recipient is going to be fucked in the end for not being able to so you can judge that as being a bad packet that you're sending but it's still within the consensus of TCPIP so there's moral there's yeah yes there's

moral judgments to be made but at the end of the day like are we not a code is law kind of group here or like what what kind of like what what values are we pulling for is this not a currency for everyone or is the currency for people i agree with only like what what are we doing this is the thing i don't get it's whatever you choose it to be and i choose it for what i think i know and you can choose it and they can choose what they want and they can choose what they want and everybody could do what they want point their hash rate this way set up your node that way and you can choose it and they can choose what they want and they can choose what they want and everybody could do what they want point their hash rate this way set up their node that way and

everything can be done on an individual individual basis and then let the chips fall where they may in the past yeah how much of a concern do you have um about the industrial miners all starting their own pools and taking out of band transactions because to me this is the next i think it's the next logical step honestly i don't know what is the cost associated with setting me neither me neither but if marathon if marathon can do it then my guess is that any of them can do it well marathon's been at it for a while it's not like they've done it and so you're not going to have some smaller bitcoin miner out there and i don't want to name any that may be small setting up their own pool there is one that i do know that is publicly traded small bitcoin miner does have their own pool but in reality i don't know if that's feasible maybe it is i i don't haven't put enough thought into this what

is the cost what is the implications for setting it up and i i just don't know so i don't know maybe that's gonna happen maybe it's not presumably if and then the other thing too is like presumably if you get like i'm a little out of my wheelhouse here, but stay with me. Presumably if you get a lot of miners who want to just add hash rate because they want to get these blocks and get the fees for out of band transactions, more hash rate, more hash rate comes online and mempools clear faster block space gets cheaper and the cycle kind of rinses and repeats. I think I have that right. That's kind of the mechanism through which this works. And so the other part of me says that we can kind of wax poetic and have these philosophical discussions about whether or not

this block is a better block than another block or this data is good or bad or is this global settlement money or is it JPEG settlement money? But at the end of the day, it's just going to go. The blocks are just going to keep coming and whatever the price is at that moment like that's the price that's the value in that moment and it's it's just that's what it is like there's nothing else really to say about it yeah so i don't know it's a free market yeah it's a fun like academic exercise and i do i do like when we go back and forth on stuff but for the moment like i'm i still don't think don't get me wrong okay i think it's so stupid to waste your money on this kind of stuff and i think people who waste their money on this kind of stuff are going to end up wishing they

didn't in the long term um but if they want to waste it and they want to pay like wow who i say they shouldn't do it fuck i don't know probably for sure again i'll be happy to educate people on how to set up their nodes that if they want to clear this from their mempool they could certainly do so and if miners want to point their hash rate to a pool it doesn't do this or it's a total opposite like ocean they have every opportunity to do so even garage miners where are you going to send your hash rate to well you could you could do it to Maripool, or you could do it somewhere else. Let's see what happens. Let the chips fall, or they may, moving forward.

And I suspect that being a bad actor, well, I don't think it's going to be all good for them moving forward. What is the cost going to be, in your view? I'm curious about this. What is the endgame here? Well, if there are people that truly believe the the way I do and they're publicly traded, or if they're minors, then they might consider pointing their hash rates somewhere else just because

they don't want the network to be slammed with crap. So even though it potentially may impact their bottom line, who the heck knows? It just, it's more of a principle thing. So we'll see what happens again. Time will tell. Yeah. does anyone in the chat know if runes is an airdrop because i'm dying to sell whatever airdrops i get from all this nonsense

immediately i'll race you i'll race you to the sell button let's move on joy because we're 35 minutes in and there's still lots to talk about an important topic we had to go deep on that one so remember we discussed that the u.s department of energy and they were asking miners to voluntarily disclose information with respect to energy consumption well the texas blockchain foundation this is interesting because they found a way to bend over the department of energy and fuck them in the ass using an s19 running full bore because they did so by suing them and their claim is that the request is an unprecedented and illegal data collection demand and this was against the

whole industry they're saying and because you know why are they collecting this information why are they asking for this information to be sometimes voluntarily or sometimes forced because there was one minor in the past that was actually forced in the past two weeks we all know why they're trying to collect this information but i guess you know we'll just leave this unsaid um little is said about some of the good work that miners do because you know they do take a lot of energy to do their hash rate to do the hashing away there's no there's no doubt about that you can't deny that but let's look at another way of of this because in texas you know they have unseasonably cold weather periodically every year two years three whatever fucking maybe these miners over in texas

they have in the past a request from i forget the name of the energy corporation there but anyways they've diverted energy electricity for cot or cot is that's it yes so they diverted the energy from to their miners to the grid and so when demand spikes and whatever generated whatever electricity they normally generate isn't enough the bitcoin miners then send it off to or cot get a credit that they could use in the future. So it's not like they're doing it, you know, for free or anything. But still, this provides some protection against spikes in demand.

And it would cause, you know, people having brownouts, blackouts, whatever the fuck it may be, in very cold weather. And people could potentially, you know, who the heck knows, I don't want to say it, but it could be really bad if you're in a cold without any electricity. And without these Bitcoin miners, you know, this would never happen. So they'd be left in a cold, both figuratively and literally. And so this lawsuit, the Department of Energy, as a result, they temporarily shelved this exercise to collect information on miners, which is really cool. And the thing is, is it temporary, though? That's the question, because, because you know what happens when a lawsuit completes i'm not sure how long it's going to take to complete but when it does wrap up are

they going to start this up again plus we have an election happening this year so there is a chance that the administration may change and if they do does that change the department of energy's focus lot remains to be to be said what's happening what's over here but still something that's developing and i'm curious to see a what's the decision of the lawsuit and b what happens after that our mind are still going to be under the radar for department of energy they will be for sure there's a lot to say about this and uh brian morgan stern uh who is the what is his position at Riot? I forget now, I have to look.

Let me have a quick peek here. Head of Public Policy at Riot Platforms. I sent him a message and asked him if he wanted to come on. He said he couldn't make it tonight, but another time he's definitely interested in coming to talk with us. So we'll ask him for all the details and some of the sort of ins and outs and nuances on this,

but I'll do my best to summarize what I know and what I've heard and what I've read. This is clearly overreach, okay, no matter how you slice it. The most coherent case you can make sort of from a bare bones angle is that the survey is asking for proprietary data that's going to cause problems for competitive advantages across miners. Things like PPAs, hardware, stuff like that. How much you're getting for how much you're spending at the very bare minimum to really give you a 30,000 foot view. This is stuff that you don't have to disclose anywhere else. And the reason you don't have to disclose it, even in stuff like your public facing disclosures, is because it's proprietary. And those miners rely on this stuff. What innovations are

you using to get the best bang for your kilowatt hour cost or whatever the case is, right? They shouldn't have to give this stuff up. And it's ridiculous that this was even an ask. The other thing, Len, is that even though some of this stuff is discernible to the competent researcher, whether you look through public postings or podcasts or whatever, it's not all in one place. And the reason it's not all in one place is because these guys don't want to make it easy. Like I said before, it's their data and it's stuff that really makes them valuable over their competitors, their competition. The thing that bothers me about this is that the US White House used an emergency designation to push this through. So there

wasn't any debate on this. It was a quick, we have an emergency here. Part of the emergency, by the way, was the price action in Bitcoin. Number go up, we need to do something about this right now. And it's clear to me that the Biden administration and their crypto wing, which is basically run at this point by Elizabeth Warren, I would say, is very Bitcoin. It's because there's stability problems during peak demand, cited reports of higher prices for electricity for consumers in some of the areas where miners are, CO2 emissions obviously a problem too, but those aren't the real reasons. You'll remember in the infancy of this program, 2022,

we did a segment, a short one probably, before we really had the details on where we should be spending our time when we're talking to each other, ironed out. And the White House in 22, during the segment, we talked about how they had just put out their sort of directive on crypto assets. Do you remember this? No. Think back. I vaguely remember doing it, but I had to go back and look at the data. In the White House release, it was their goals for digital assets. And data collection was one of them. And in the release, the reason for the data collection on miners was to limit or eliminate Bitcoin mining in the United States. Ta-da!

There's your rabbit, right? Pulled it right out of the hat for you. That's two years old at this point. And they haven't changed their stance, even as every regulatory agency has given Bitcoin credence and legitimacy through ETFs, through allowing people to trade it, through basically giving Coinbase their blessing as the government's arm in the Bitcoin and crypto space. They still want to live in a Bitcoin mining. Completely ridiculous, but that's where they are. They want all the power provision details to be public.

And in my view, and actually this is something Morgenstern said too. I was listening to him on Levera last night preparing for the show. The reason you want this stuff public, you want people to know where you get your power, who you get it from, is so you can encourage protests. There's no other reason why you would do this except to put a spotlight on these companies and encourage people to do and say things that they wouldn't normally otherwise do unless they were spun up into a zealous mood by a press release from the White House. So this is, in my view, just ridiculous. One thing I haven't heard said, and I'll try and paint the picture for you here. Consider the landscape right now in America. Inflation is high, right? Even though they're

being told it's not. Energy prices are high. Isn't it convenient to say to your electorate that inflation is high because people are buying Bitcoin, it's undermining the dollar, and your energy costs are high because Bitcoin mining is driving up those costs. It's taking all the energy off your grid. Wouldn't that be a convenient narrative? It would be. It's possible.

You could paint them in a negative light and create some negative publicity surrounding them, and a lot of it's FUD. It's all FUD. It's all FUD. I mean, eventually this will go like a bullet through a flock of doves. You're not going to touch anything with any of these accusations because they don't make sense. But the point is they can paint it that way. There may be a hint of truth to that.

I'm talking about the latter point. The energy part, there may be the slightest truth to that. Tell me why. Depending on how the energy is usable. If it's stranded energy, then hell no. But if it's energy that could potentially be sent to the grid, potentially, and it's used for one argument, maybe a small argument that it could be used. It's causing an increase in your electricity bill, but it's marginal, minuscule. Yes, agreed. do this to save themselves being criticized for the two things that are causing Americans

arguably the most trouble any American populace has had in the last 25 years, right? They're in a real pinch here in a major way. We'll talk a little later about the gig economy, but a lot of data pointed to people not being able to make ends meet. I'm concerned about this. And I'm looking forward to talking to Brian about this because he's a guy who's obviously like boots on the ground and did work in government for a time on on this kind of thing so for now we sit and wait pierre rochard is a guy to follow brian morganstern is a guy to follow

uh the blockchain council in texas a group to follow on twitter for the latest greatest and uh let's find out what's what's going to come next the attacks are not going to stop they're not going to stop the price is going to get to 60,000 here in the next six months or 12 months. And there's going to be a lot of people talking about this. And a dollar that's going to be looking weaker and weaker and weaker. People who are looking more and more and more for ways to make their ends meet. meet and this is a pretty good you know opportunity for crucifixion let's say for uh for bitcoin uh vis-a-vis the u.s government so i'll be i'll be paying attention this one we all should be brains pool some good news from the people running brains pool and they have announced that they are

going to be using lightning network for payments this is really cool this is so they're going to be giving out payments instantly to miners and they're going to be receiving these these awards with no minimums or no fees so normally pools they have a limit of sats that you have to accumulate before you're able to withdraw so everything you mind you have to get to that threshold before you can withdraw plus you know there's going to be a fee associated with it but with this system that brains pool is setting up apparently there's no minimums no fees and thinking of this just you know looking at what they're doing here this might make uh heating your spaces at home with an s19 a little bit more appealing that you're never going to make money doing this, but if you're

going to use electricity to heat the home anyways, or at least that particular area, why not consider getting an S9? You can get a steady stream of stats doing so. Just food for thought. But for those that are interested in taking advantage of this type of new feature, you have to reach out to the Brains support desk. And once once you do they're going to tell you the following the manual payouts and automatic payouts will be disabled only lightning payment payments will be enabled so you don't have an option at that point it's only going to be lightning payments moving forward you have to provide your choice of uh ln url so you have to provide whatever address you have to because there's a list of walls that they

do support, make sure you have it before moving forward. And you also have to accept and understand which they say that there could be hiccups. They say it's beta. So they're learning through this. So it's going to be testing. So if you have a large amount of hash rate, I would not suggest taking advantage of that just in case there are hiccups, you're going to lose out on any potential gains. But if you have a little bit like, know say an s19 heating a particular area of your home or several of them doing the same maybe consider this you get you know steady stream of payments to your lightning wallet and you know no fees no minimum good stuff from brains i like it uh for people who want to get into home mining you know what kaboom racks is selling s9s for right now with the the with the psu the power supply unit the bundle yeah the bundle i'll guess

80 us 66 us there you go it's just it's not it really like the hash rate goes up the difficulty jumps and it makes these what are yeah it's a hobby it's a hobby now more than uh anything else right so but you know fun to mess around with it if you want it's cool i like this idea from brains contrast this to the uh marathon pool of course um you know what they're doing what they're putting their focus on there you go say let the market decide and maybe let them exactly this is to be for. Let's be honest. This appeals more for the garage miners than anybody else.

If you're a large scale mining operation, why would you consider this? You're going to meet the minimum threshold really quick. Hours a day or something. But maybe it'll be hours. Anyways. Yeah. Interesting. You're good stuff.

If we have Gandalf still work for brains, we could have brought him on and talk about this but uh he no longer wears that banner right or march thanks gandalf come on you know we'll talk about the european central bank and these no coiners they're at it again and they're talking about bitcoin being a failure i love this people they're being subjected to fraud and manipulation thanks to bitcoin it's just like this stuff never happens in the fiat world. And it's only exclusive to Bitcoin. And whatever. These people, they're going so far. I can't believe they've done this.

They said the fair value of Bitcoin is zero. Amazing. And funny because there is an actual cost to mine Bitcoin because it's proof of work, right? So you have to actually subject, use electricity, cost money to generate electricity or use electricity from the grid to mine Bitcoin. So there's a cost to mine Bitcoin. Can the same be said about the euro? I'd love to know how much work is involved in increasing the supply of the euro. They won't give an answer because we all

know there's fuck all work required so if you want to compare the two one is proof of work and one is not okay let's just let's humor them let's assume the the value the fair value is zero bitcoin is worthless all right if something has no value i'd love to know why you members, they tax the gains on Bitcoin when sold. If there's no value, it would be worth nothing and there'd be no applicable taxes. But the fact you have countries out there and each have a different tier of taxes that they apply, they do apply these taxes in your capital gains. Well, there is fucking value here. And these guys are just blowing smoke. I'm not even going to talk that much about this. I tweeted out what I thought about it. A lot of other people did. Friend of the show, CJ Constantino, is reminding Lagarde and her ilk

that fair value in Bitcoin is something that's pretty widely debated. But no matter where you fall on that spectrum in the debate, you ain't going you fall on that spectrum in the debate, he ain't going to fall on zero. Zero ain't it. I think he tweeted out or someone else tweeted out, if it's zero, just make a bunch and don't worry about it.

Send the price to nothing and get people out of the asset. Problem is you can't. This is the thing, right? There's so much more education now about what value means and what money is that the ECB gets community noted on Twitter immediately. And every big financial account tweets it out in an instant. Everyone wants to dunk on the ECB. Why should we give these guys any credence, any credit for anything? I was listening to a podcast the other day. I can't remember which one, but there's a growing chorus of people. This might just be my bubble.

I admit that. But a growing chorus of people who think the euro is not going to make it through the decade. And if I look and see European kind of quote-unquote strength over there, not a lot of stuff give you a lot of promise. I don't think I would bet on the euro making it out of the 2030s. Again, it's an example of someone who doth protest too much, as the saying goes. Freddie New pointed out to me that they even stole the name of that article from some book. They didn't even bother to check if someone had used that title before. Maybe they did and just assumed that no one else would look.

It's just terrible all around, though, Len. Come on. You're not even trying. Of the G7 countries yeah what would you uh think like if you had to bet money on this bitcoin on this which one do you think it would which currency would fail first and you can whatever the euro the euro is an interesting one because there's obviously g7s tied up in that i think that you could make a case that like i don't know japan canada um japan's an interesting run right i think they just i think bitcoin just made a high in yen

right pretty sure so a lot of these currencies are getting devalued unfortunately this money coming into the u.s dollar the the mexican are you on whatever that currency is i i don't know like yeah like i i don't know man if i had to pick a g7 and then the other thing is like how do you define i have no answer by the way no me neither how do you define a failure look at that's what i said yeah use your own definition for this you're pretty you're pretty close here in canada i would say you know your dollar's been falling against the u.s dollar basically steady now for a decade it's falling against every other major currency. You can't really leave the country because you earn less.

So even if you have enough money to go on a trip, as soon as your currency convert, unless you're converting to like the Cuban CUC or something, you know, you're just not going to do well on the back end of that conversion. Plus you get taxed on the Forex trade. Like it there's like, you're, you're in, I think in Canada, you're really, you know, you're in it, man. Like the water's getting hot here as far as the currency goes, I would say. A failure could be decades out too.

And that's another thing. Like who the heck knows when it's going to be. And like the thing is, once it fails, like what is fail? Like you can't buy anything. I think the. Yeah. When I see it. Yeah, exactly. that's what i was

gonna say you can't buy anything domestically with the domestic currency everyone wants something else then that's the failure but that's the last stop on the you know on the bus route to failure there's a lot of stops before that a lot of people ringing the bell on the bus does do buses still have that pull down rope i haven't been on a bus i don't know but somebody that wants to ring the bell is reddit when they IPO. And they said that they have purchased some Bitcoin. Thank you very much. And they also purchased some Ether as well.

So fucking morons. And they said they're doing this investing with their excess reserves. And they're putting it into Bitcoin and not shitcoin. So they've been deploying this strategy since 2022. It's not shitcoin so they've been deploying this strategy since 2022 it's been a while since they've been doing this and it was learned that this was the case because they are planning to go ahead with an ipo and this information has to be disclosed and so if they have been dcing or whatever they've been doing since 2022 it's quite likely their purchase of bitcoin has increased in value. They're

killing. Yeah, yeah. So that's good for that. Now what I have to say is, more than anything, nobody's really talking about this. And this is for a reason is if this news happened a couple of years ago, two, three, four years ago, yeah. Now it's just like, whatever. And I just wanted to point it out here. This is how far the the bitcoin community how far that it has advanced matured and so forth because this news nobody gives a fuck about it and we're just giving it just a flyer token over here but other than that

like still interesting news but come on larry larry fink is telling uh cnbc msnbc not to report on it wants to keep the price low. I just made a couple notes here. One is that they're buying, yeah, like you mentioned, Ethereum and Bitcoin as part of their treasury strategy, which is huge. They also hold some other stuff like Matic, which I think they have as part of a token program they tried to roll out last year or two years ago.

Using that and something else. I think it's ETH or something else as a payment system that they want. That's from what I understand. It could be wrong on their platform. Who the hell knows? Interesting. On a separate note, how does a company like Reddit IPO?

How? Yeah, like how? This is what I wrote down. Why? I'll tell you exactly what I wrote down. Weird to me that a company like Reddit, even IPO, is given that the ads are skippable, there's tons of questionable content, and most of the users are anonymous or difficult to target ads to uh my best guess is they start changing that allowance or charging for usernames or something

because you can't really target ads right like you can go on reddit and just make a burner and like the ads i get on reddit never apply to me like it's not even stuff i would i wouldn't even dunk on the ads it's not even like the ad should be my interest based on the subreddit that's a very generalized way of doing it so if you go hypothetically on a bitcoin subreddit you probably say right now business on air here where do you want to go bitcoin bitcoin ca yeah where i'm a moderator in name only uh let's see here we go so i'm wondering then they could potentially target ads to that audience and it'll be a very generalized ad and that's to say that they're going to be able to make a profit by doing this but that's one way they can monetize the system there could be others

maybe as you're saying selling uh usernames or paying some sort of subscription service to generate more income i don't know this is their fuck their puppy not mine i haven't i haven't been on bitcoin ca in a long time brandon green candle his posts are getting brandon you're over there where's not enough get all caps on this we gotta we gotta find out what's going on well you know what here's an ad well simple so you know what? Here's an ad. Here's an ad. Well, simple. So you're right. That is actually a Bitcoin kind of a Jason ad. Yeah. Is that enough to put them over to hump to become profitable? I don't know.

I don't have enough information about this. Hard to say. Who the hell knows? But you know, these guys, presumably the same people who are going to be pumping the Reddit IPO are the people who are criticizing Musk for saying that ads are not enough to make Twitter profitable or Snapchat, you know, not enough ads, not enough to make your product profitable. And by the way, they've been right not enough, not enough to make your product profitable. And by the way, they've been right.

So like, why should this be any different? And also like Reddit is full of porn. If you go to the homepage or whatever, there's tons of stuff on there. Questionable content, like blurred out photos on my Reddit thing. There's blurred out photos every day. If I go to Reddit and just browse the, uh, the popular page or whatever. If you could select, there's the option to, um, take off. That's that mine is on, it's on blurry photos or whatever.

Yeah. I have that on, but it's, but that only filters out like explicit 18 plus material. I even get those blurry photos for stuff like, uh, like what's, Oh, like I follow a couple of fitness subreddits. So once in a while I get get the glow up posts or whatever. And I don't know. Companies have been criticized for less than that. And investors have gotten cold feet over less than that.

Presumably, Pornhub is making a killing. And yet, I don't believe they are public or their umbrella corporation is public or you can invest in them as a public market. That's a Canadian company, right? It is Montreal based. Yeah. I think are Quebec based.

So I, like if you can't invest in that, even though that's probably making a ton of money in advertising, why would they want to go up there if it's private? Like, you know, if you're doing so well privately, why,

why go IP? I guess. Yeah. I know that there's a reason to do it and you can just dump the shares in. Well, there's no trillion dollar private companies. I'll tell you that. That's one reason. So then there's very few to do it and you can just dump the shares and there's no trillion dollar private companies. I'll tell you that that's one reason. So then there's very few publicly traded trillion dollar companies as

well. So it's not like you're drawing from a huge pool here. So whatever. Let's talk about one last story, I guess. MSTR. You want to do the buys? Yeah,

we can. I should have told SB to come on. Yeah. Well, it's we'll do it very quick because they, if you're send me a dm on twitter text me or something i'll give you come on in we'll get you on really quick it's a micro strategy they have acquired another 3 000 bitcoin and the average price was a little bit less than 52 000 what's the price of bitcoin now so whatever it is 50 52 right 53 50 so that no it's

higher than it was like 54 isn't it oh we wouldn't have 53 oh maybe 54 yeah sorry yeah so this price alone they could you know it's 2 2500 maybe almost 3 000 gain per bitcoin which is not bad so they now hold nine sorry 193 000 bitcoin on their balance sheet. So something that's interesting is the last buy they had enabled them to get to 190,000, an even number. This time they're getting another 3,000 Bitcoin or 193,000 Bitcoin in total, another even number. It just seems funny because typically when I buy Bitcoin, I have X, whatever cash I have, I use to buy Bitcoin and whatever number comes out at the end.

That's what I have in Bitcoin. But these guys are going the opposite. They're saying, I want to get this amount of Bitcoin and whatever cash is needed to buy it. They'll do that. It seems like an interesting way of doing things. And it's not like they're trying to send a message, a hidden message. Maybe they're trying to send a message to people saying, look, we're doing something here that's interesting. But it just it's funny about this. And the second thing I got to mention is

their Twitter account, X account, was briefly compromised. And it just goes to show you it's a good thing that they don't have custody of their Bitcoin. If they did, what sort of... That's why I said that to you. I'm like, fuck like fuck lan you were right it's probably a good idea it really is yeah not to say that everybody should but the fact that

they can't manage their x account twitter account they shouldn't be able to manage 193 000 bitcoin that company would have been fucking bankrupt if that happened if that bitcoin is gone there's no way to recover absolutely no way to recover sad i like the i like the sailor buys though maybe he's buying uh is he buying like a percentage i have to look back at his buys and see if there's a pattern but is he buying a percentage of like you know the the mind supply of over the last six months quarter whatever i really have no no he it's it's i was looking at this before it was always like um an higher low like it's very very like sometimes it's five figures bitcoin and sometimes even three figures bitcoin so he's less than a thousand so there's no rhyme or reason to

this it's just i don't know it just he did pumping in money and buying it but the last two buys were even amounts at least this one's an even amount the last one got to got them to an even amount i find he issued he issued debt right for this one i'm pretty sure the last one got to got them to an even amount i find he issued he issued debt right for this one i'm pretty sure i didn't know i don't know how they did it but i'm pretty sure he i mean he does it for almost everything but i'm pretty sure he issued debt and not equity for this one i'd have to look but uh anyway yeah i mean he's gonna keep going what's he where's he gonna stop 200 000 never what's enough right the answer is exactly it's never enough so why would he stop what's that thing we saw today somebody was posting in our chat they've made i think it was in their chat

they made more in the bitcoin gains in the past little while than their company would in the next six years yeah pish posted that yeah a few weeks they've sb yeah sb has a thing next time he comes on i should ask him to go into details i don't know if he could because i think he does this obviously for work so but he has a calculation for what he calls the MSTR Bitcoin premium. What is the company worth without the Bitcoin on the balance sheet in terms of like sailor at the helm, the assumption they're going to keep issuing debt, blah, blah, blah. And so he's, I mean, SP is sharp. We know that. But if he's willing to share that, I would like to talk to him about it because it'd be interesting, right? And we talked about this when he was on last. If Saylor knows that

his software company is kind of, I don't want to say bogus, but it's certainly not the flagship attraction anymore over at MSTR, then why would he just not keep devaluing the stock in favor of getting the Bitcoin on the balance sheet and also when the bitcoin like when the fasbi rules kick in and he does his first like you know what's your company worth oh it's worth uh yeah like what is that gonna look like it's gonna be gangbusters right so it's all works well because the price of bitcoin has been on a steady rise since um well i guess you could say for the past year and change if it was the inverse obviously we'd look at this a little bit differently yeah so yeah all right joy i think that we should wrap

up the bitcoin side and move on to the other notable stuff good job a lot of notable stories this week we'll be talking about just how notable things have become and uh yeah so if you're with us uh on video here just uh hang in stay stay tuned. We'll be back in zero seconds because we don't actually take a break through the magic of audio editing and releasing the podcast episodes different times. It sounds like we're taking a break. So thanks for hanging in. See you in one minute. Yeah.

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