The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #154 (Bitcoin News) - Bitcoin All Time High, Stanford Bets Big, Economic Woes

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Coinbase-Stanford’s Blyth Fund’s bitcoin gambit-Arizona getting orange pilled-MSTR buying more corn-BRICS is back in the news And much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: ⁠https://discord.gg/ESRCZWpb A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and could truly guarantee is 72K. Other than that, I have no idea what's going on. 154. My name is Joey. That's Len. I'm very, very much under the weather here.

So glad to be with you playing my Jordan flu game. But you can't miss a day like today, right? All-time high. Easy, like pound through that old high. Print 72. Maintain. I think we might touch 73 here in a little while. It looks like we're trying to.

And on a day like that, you can't really take uh you can't take a vacation so i'm glad to be here with you buddy what's going on how are you over there now living the dream it's all fiat too remember the number like we discussed last week until we get to like a really significant high what is it 85 90 whatever fuck it really is it's just it's it's a fake high uh it's good to celebrate it's good to celebrate it. It's good to point at all the no-coiners out there that were ducking on us for the past two years and change. But the reality is, at least me and I think every other Bitcoin

understands the same thing. We know deep down, it's not really an all-time high when you look at what truly is inflation. But Joey, still a good day to celebrate. We hit a number we've never reached before. A lot of people are happy, but a lot of people seem to be kind of salty at the same time which is very odd this pump i expected more cheering more more jubilee that comes on you know we're happy we're but is there anything that's like do you see like a lot of people that are just like meh

about this thing like it seems like it's just a meh fucking high yeah there's not it's weird i expect more but like isn't it do you think it's because people are like i was talking to wayfaring and sba about this i can't remember if i said it to you too but this time around it feels like there's only there's only so many kinds of people left who are doubting bitcoin and don't have any and And the overwhelming majority of them, at least in Normie land, are actually might even be in the traditional finance world too. The only people that are left are people who don't have any and will never buy any because they don't want to admit they're wrong, that they won't swallow their pride. And so that's all coming from their camp. And then I think from our camp, there's some salt around the price just absolutely tore faces off for the last three months, basically.

And people didn't get a chance to stack as much as they wanted to. I kind of feel that pain. But otherwise, I mean, you're always going to get people who are salty or at least pretending to be salty online for engagement and people who are genuinely happy. I know I'm happier than a pig in shit, honestly.

It's been a good couple of months here. And I mean, look, we've been telling you guys for so long that this was going to come at some point. The ETFs were going to come and traditional finance was going to come and things were going to start to break. And even before things have really started to break, which we'll get into today, you're starting to see people pour in, man. Everybody wanted access to this thing and couldn't get it because there's a set of archaic laws in most of the modern world that prevented them from doing so in tax efficient

vehicles, prevented them from doing so in IRAs and other registered accounts. And now that stuff's available. What did you think was going to happen? I don't think that the SEC thought this was going to happen. I certainly don't think the White House thought it was going to happen, although they have a price prediction that made me laugh earlier today. And I don't think that any Bitcoiners thought it was going to happen either. I think this is wildly outside of most of our expectations. So while I am thrilled about the all-time high, can't tell me it didn't come a little fast. It did come a little fast for me. As fast as it came up, it could equally go down. Once the sentiment changes and it becomes negative and people are selling left, right, and center, this ETF seems to be a multiplying effect when going up, but it's probably going to have the same multiplying effect when going down.

So when it does start going down, it's going to go down very hard. I'm not saying it's going to happen today or tomorrow, but nothing goes up forever. And once it starts to go down, what's going to be the floor, especially when you have now everybody selling with the ETF? Now, keep in mind, there's only so much they can sell with the etf they can't sell any more than they have on their balance sheet but they can sell you know theoretically up to zero they'll never do that there's always going to be people holding but with respect you mentioned something that this created a whole new um opportunity for people out there to invest and put into tax efficient vehicles but they existed before you could you could have bought bitcoin through a holding company that you set up and

did it with i think a rock no one's really no one's really gonna do this though well like it's not nobody's gonna do that it's the thing is the opportunity existed people chose not to take advantage of that and through that method you hold on to your own keys as well so you get the added advantage or staying neutral because that's what bitcoin is you're essentially holding onto your keys you're not playing at a disadvantage with the etf so that always existed anybody that had a little bit of money to set up the holding company and go ahead with it from what i I understand, it's just a few hundred dollars to set it up. This is from what I understand.

I could be wrong because I've never gone through it. But that's all somebody needed to do in order to take advantage of that and through tax-efficient means. They didn't do it through sheer laziness or for something else. Now we're using the extremely lazy method of the ETF. Here you go. Here's's my money hold on to my keys at the same time come on how good is that's not fucking bitcoin that's fiat i'm with you there i don't think whatever we can talk about the holding company etfs the price and all that maybe we should do um the sponsors of the show first since uh they do pay us for this airtime

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but full Bitcoin gives you the opportunity to buy KYC free, very cheap, very easy. Check it out. Insane, man. Great sponsors. Where should we start? We got a lot to talk about today.

Price is one thing. We should talk about the boost, I guess, if we got some boosts, and the housekeeping for this week as well. Yeah. So the boosts, give me one second. We didn't get too many this week, which is odd. We're getting a lot of people streaming sats and streaming sats that like four figures, but they're not sending us a boost.

I suggest turn that streaming shit off. Send us a boost for less than what you would normally stream us and you keep more sats in your pocket. Plus you could have us read a message for you, but only got three this week. I'll literally read anything on the air. As long as the top five boosts.

Rander 444 sats. He says, stay savage and stack sats. Agreed. Mo BTC Dick writes in 550 sats. Keep in mind the timeframe. He wrote this last week. He said, did we in fact hit an all time high? It just doesn't feel special this time around.

He's right. I don't know how special it's great and we kind of talked about it last week but like do you feel like it was 2021 all over again i don't i wouldn't i didn't hear anyone playing pump it up i mean creed obviously the flavor of the day but still it doesn't feel like it's, you know, this insane kind of bull party, right? No, it's definitely the last one was is we're still locked at home. It was very, very shortly after the lockdown. A little bit of everything this time around. I don't know. It's just it's not the same vibe. I'm happy.

But until we get to 100K in today's dollars not i'm talking six months i'm not talking two years from now in today's dollars 100k then it's going to be party time until then keep stacking that's hilarious yeah uh shout out to the chat man there's 100 fucking people here which is no it's incorrect well i don't know it looks like people between youtube twitter yeah it's all that jazz and rumble whatever and all well listen if you're watching we appreciate it um i got one more uh one more is there more boost you got a couple of years one more i have to go through and sir snacks a lot he writes in a thousand sats writes into you joey curious if joey has paid off his line of credit when he's back a smashed purchased bitcoin guy is pulling off a sailor i remember you did that

i don't know two three four months ago it was the the day the ETF launched the drop, uh, on that Friday or the week the ETF launch, I should say that Friday we hit, we hit a drop. I think it hit the low forties and I did a smash by 2000 bucks. Have I paid it off? No. So I should probably do that at some point. But, um, yeah, I, I have to say I'm happy about how that turned out. I'm not, I'm not angry about that one. I did take a little bit of shit from you about that. I think I'm not many. No, I didn't take it. I was like, Oh no. I was like, why do that? You know, like I would, you know, don't borrow, use what you can going at the debt is, you know, it's a tough thing to do. I wouldn't recommend it. And yeah, it's, if only like I would suggest use whatever you have extra at the end of the day.

And that's the best because you know, it's not going to impact your ability to pay bills. It's not going to impact your ability to live your life. Although you could scale back your life and buy more Bitcoin, but man credit, like borrowing it. Oh, that's a tough way to go,

but it works for some people and hopefully it works for you too. It is working for you. Yeah. so this week on cbp we did have a guest booked but they they slid out to april i think you said right so we have to reschedule that but um i'm trying to get tour i haven't touched base with tour i tried to message him yesterday i'm gonna try and set that up for this week if not though um we can do something together we'll do a nooner or if you guys have an idea for a guest uh send it to us and we'll talk to them we'll get them on the show for wednesday play nhl 94 against each other we'll have a matchup stream it yeah yeah i'll be happy to do that i love it yeah you got that little console like that little handheld console right

it's yes right over there yeah is it any good i play it once in a while it's kind of just like a way to kill time when i'm doing other stuff honestly i i i don't know if i would buy it again but uh it has been fun to play some of the old games i'm a big pokemon guy i love like games where rng rules the day and you got to grind a little bit to get stuff done and all the custom rounds for pokemon are pretty they're pretty good i gotta say i just have to say somebody's asking that is there any bitcoin meetups taking place there's one taking place and innocent bakery sorry innocent brewery bakery because that's anyways innocent brewery in waterloo april 20th i think it's supposed to start around 5 30 p.m give or take so if you just go search on twitter in a cent a brewery twitter uh bitcoin meetup

you'll find the message uh d d's running it right he's organizing it or trying to no no he's he's just like a participant just like you and i actually no i think we're uh giving away a shirt or something or some shirt i don't know what's going on because we're some we're official sponsors of that so yeah i don't know i still don't really know how that happened but uh yeah i'll be there it should be good 420 plays are you going 420 half it yeah i'm gonna try if it's a saturday i'm gonna go it is a saturday yeah yeah i'm gonna try and go unless i have like a football playoff game then maybe not but i should be okay i think it's all right it's a week before the playoff start i'm pretty sure are we staying up late over there if the halving takes place before. Are we going to be hardcore?

You guys want to grind out these parties and just make them the least enjoyable possible experience. You're staying up late 40 minutes from home. No, I will not be doing that, but I will go for a beer if everyone's gone. It's an hour for me. Yeah, it's far for you. I know. My card, if it gets there, it's a miracle, but I

keep pushing it and it's just tough going up hills these days. We've got a couple of other, uh, meetups in the chat. Once more, fella Halifax and Charlottetown and the East coast do, uh, meetups every month and then boom dust in Ottawa at the Glebe central

plus central pub this Wednesday. I think, uh, Boomer does, uh, meetups almost every month now, right? Pretty sure in Ottawa.

I think it's once a month. Yeah. And he has been trying to get a whole bunch of um more prominent people that are outside of bitcoin to come there given it you know this proximity to you know nation capitals of people coming in yes capital region yeah yeah so let's uh yeah shall we where do you want to start i'll do the bitcoin pump because that seems to be the biggest it's the news of the day well before we even talk about what happened today what today was a fun one woke up this morning and

geez the price of bitcoin was 72 ish 71 ish interestingly enough joey this is the third sunday in a row where i us we went to bed and wake up in the morning monday morning and the price pump there's there's a pattern here. I don't know what is causing it, but for whatever reason, the Sunday overnight, there seems to be a lot of money coming in and boosting up the price of Bitcoin. I'm not sure exactly what's the cause of it,

but that just seems to be so, you know, if you want to trade it, go ahead, but I wouldn't recommend it. Anyways, the one thing I do want to talk about is Coinbase because they do this thing over and over again, but they didn't recommend it anyways the one thing i do want to talk about is coinbase because they do this thing over and over again but they didn't do it today so good for them that they were either asleep at the switch or they just didn't give a shit anymore because up until today there were three separate incidents that coinbase were having issues and it was a variety of issues so where people were unable to get onto your account they couldn't see anything any balance so server

issues then it was technical issues, a whole bunch of these fucking things. But yeah, the funny thing is it happened three times. And each of those times was when the price of Bitcoin was running up. So, you know, I was a fan of baseball. That's a strikeout, man. Let's say go back to the dugout and fucking think about what you've done. But somebody mentioned on twitter

and they said this and i fucking laughed when i saw that they said a coinbase is like the circuit breaker that trips with the price of bitcoin goes up and i for some reason i found it to be hilarious i don't think that's the case but the question remains though like what happened like i for me i don't think it's on purpose i don't think there's any nefarious activities going on they're trying to do anything because let's be honest how much influence does coinbase have with respect to lowering the price of bitcoin if they go offline doesn't change anything with bitcoin that bitcoin is what it is just because you can't buy from a particular exchange does it make bitcoin any less valuable? I would argue no, but somehow-

What do you think it is? You think it's just like they're- I mean, they have a history dating back to 2016, 17 of having trouble anytime there's a price rip. And I think Wayfaring, who wrote an article for the website you guys should check out, made a note of the traffic on Coinbase during these big price rips. If you look at this price rip compared to 2020, 2021, significantly less volume on the platform. So to your point, Len, can they really affect the price? Probably not, but it makes it even weirder that they keep going down as the price rips

because more people are trading off of that platform than ever before. And as Wayfaring points out in his article, there's just not enough traffic to expect an interruption in service. It's not good, man. It's not good at all. And they're the only guys in the space, really. What have you been doing for the last five years

besides running your own shitty layer two base token and refusing to save Bitcoin on Twitter? Twitter certainly hasn't been anything to do with preparing your service for, you know, the, the highway full of people who are going to come and use it during the next bull cycle. It's,

it's frustrating. It's big, big time frustrating. I mean, how, how could it not be? I agree, but they're not truly associated with Bitcoin,

right? Because if you look at the services they offer, it's a variety of services. Sure, they sell Bitcoin, but they sell a whole bunch of other stuff, including they provide staking services for some really shitty products out there. So if you think about what is Coinbase, well, they are a variety of things.

It's certainly just not Bitcoin. So for them going down, I don't think it's a huge thing in the grand scheme of things. Like, I still don't understand how this impacted their price negatively. You know, and in terms of the volume, Dan Webb from the High Hash Rate podcast, he was saying a couple weeks ago when he was on our show or when I was interviewing him, he was saying the volume, if it spikes, that causes a problem. If it's a gradual run-up, then it's okay because then they're able to spin up new computers and have everything just catch up. But just a sudden spike, that could be problematic. I don't know if that's the case with Coinbase. This is his thinking. It could be totally wrong. I don't know, but it sounds plausible. But you're right. If you go look at the volume, which took place, I think it was April 2021.

The volume at that time was the highest I've seen it. And there were so many orders being put in for the buys and sells. At that time, Binance went down, Coinbase went down, and a whole bunch of others. But the amount of volume that we experienced in the past couple of weeks it pales in comparison to what happened during april 2021 now i have to really look at it more in depth maybe it's just i'm looking at this you know so rose-colored glasses but that's the way i remember just it was just crazy fucking volume and a few exchanges went down now another thing is there is no binance us at least i don't think they're operating in the united states so with that being

the case you now have the rest of them picking up the slack but you now have kraken which is doing well there you go so what is that yellow line there what year is that 2020 yeah so this is for people who are listening only there's a chart in wayfaring's article that has the volume by year on coinbase so you have that 2020 blow up here uh that's got to be march 2020 probably right yes and then you see uh again here this is probably that april 2021 and then november 2021 this no that's probably may that second was probably may when China banned Bitcoin mining. No. Why would that lead to a huge spike?

I think one is probably- At the bottom, 2022? Yeah. Go back a couple of months. Oh, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is too close. You're right.

I would say that's April and May or June. That's my guess. Okay. So then, I mean the the point of the chart is that if you look at the the traffic from 24 i mean come on it pales in comparison it's nothing right it's mugsy bogues next to george mirzen and so what no no no who is it it's bogues next to deke deke you want to do dekembe okay sure because weren't they on the same team did they play together in the sixers or am i wrong uh i don't think so what does spud web web maybe but not

uh okay anyway so the point is the volume here is like way low it's super low and there's no reason you know three years later two years later that you should be having the same problems it doesn't make sense right and and so i think when people say like i'm with you i don't think it's like on purpose but when people say that there's something going on at Coinbase that's causing the price to stop ripping, I think that's true. I just don't think it's intentional. I think it's just incompetence and lack of prioritization by them. They've been working on a million things, but clearly not making sure that everyone can get to their Bitcoin to make a trade when the price is ripping. So make of that what you will.

Pick a better service. Pick bull Bitcoin. Pick anyone that'll let you go to Shopper's Drug Mart and give you cash and your cash will be in your account when you get back. Piece of cake. There's nothing to it. You never have to worry about that. You never have to worry about bull Bitcoin going down. You just bring your money to shoppers and that's it. Even Swan, we haven't

talked all that fondly of them lately, but Dan was there to point out that they didn't go down in the past little while they were able to stay up and they're bitcoin only right that's don't even product they sell so i mean if you're gonna buy i mean that may be another option um of course that's custodial so i would always suggest non-custodial services at least you know if you're gonna buy pull it out right away but that's just a topic for another time but yeah coinbase is it's fucked up and um they're the largest exchange out there should they did they eclipse binance i don't know at least for public custodian largest exchange the

most you know friendly with the government they're basically an arm of the u.s government at this point i think that's fair to say and this is their you know this is the way they behave i still have my bet of course you mentioned something like super rich off that but you mentioned the custodian of the etfs not just them also they they custodian some of micro strategies bitcoin as well a portion of that i don't know what portion so why after seeing all these issues they have with you know volume being just met why would we trust them to hold on to our keys there's gonna come a time when you want to take your Bitcoin off what happens if volatility is so high and volume is off the charts you can't sell your fucking Bitcoin free

so you can't sell your ETF because they just not gonna allow you to do so we're not gonna let you pull out or something along those lines this is a good exercise for people out there that just don't understand please look at cussing your bitcoin that's one of the beautiful things that bitcoin allows you to do you can hold on to your bitcoin just like if you were to hold on to your gold now you're not having your gold held by the bank you have it in your possession it's with your it's in your hands so to speak digitally at least so that's what bitcoin allows you to do learn how to do that if you could do that you've created so much flexibility

moving forward and it's one less hurdle or many hurdles that you have to jump moving forward and that's going to be a huge thing when shit hits the fan yeah i agree with you there agree with you there but pumps been fun it's it's uh you know it's not over i don't think so we'll wait and see where the price goes but i you know i 100K by halving is in play for sure. I mean, there's obviously a pretty strong correlation with the S&P and the NASDAQ at this point. And NVIDIA is basically holding the world economy together like a glue stick in a hurricane at this stage.

But as you mentioned, we've had a couple of days where we've been up and the NASDAQ's been down. We're closely correlated to gold now. And again, like we've talked about on the show, there's a lot of people who spent a lot of time and staked their reputation, I think, in some cases on how this thing was just a vacuum for liquidity and would only go up in price when the market was flooded with stimulus money and money was cheap via rates. But I mean, what do you have to say about this? Rates are five and a quarter, whatever they are in the States, five and a quarter here, five and a quarter in Europe. Central bank's clearly working together to try and keep the economy in a quote unquote, restrictive environment. And it's not working. It's just not working. So I mean, if you think

they're going to cut this year, one rate cut, quarter point or half a point is all it's just not working. So I mean, if you think they're going to cut this year, one rate cut, quarter point or half a point is all it's going to take to send this thing to 85 from here. And that's assuming we don't get there on our own with the ETF inflows before then. And the halving, I mean, all this stuff is, you got to be crazy to be selling now is the sort of point I'm getting to here. I can't imagine looking at this and saying to somebody like, this is the time I'm going to get out. I got to get out right now. It's insane. I can't imagine looking at this and saying to somebody like, yeah, this is the time I'm going to get out. I got to get out right now. It's insane. I know there's people who bought at 60K, 50K, the last peak, haven't looked at it since, and now see it at the high and just get out. Fine.

I don't know how many people are like that, but if you're selling in this environment, with everything stacked against you right now, in terms of macroeconomic factors, the only thing working in your favor is the ETFs. The broader market, say for NVIDIA, basically everything else is tumbling, maybe meta as well. You're going to sell at an all-time high in that environment? I don't know, man. That's, to me, not financial advice ever from us, but not a great move.

I would say not a great move. No, if they need the money to pay off bills or they want to use that to gains to purchase something, all the more power to them. This Bitcoin is not one of the things it's used for is medium exchange. It's not, you're not supposed to hold it until the end of your days. So if somebody, you know, if they have bills to pay and it's just too much for them to pay it all the more power to them if they have if they could sell whatever they have whatever gain and make some gains out of it and pay off those bills and live a life that could potentially be much

easier moving forward i have no issues with that or if they want to use that to buy a new car or where a new house what if there they can't live in Bitcoin? I just think like, I mean, there's a lot about self first before that at the moment. I just want to point out Grace too is on X commenting about the volume, saying the volume is lower on that chart I showed from Wayfaring because less gets traded as fiat price of Bitcoin increases. I'm not sure if that's accounted for in Wayfaring's chart,

but that's a good point. So I know Wayfaring was in the chat earlier. I'm not sure if he's still there, but yeah. I mean, you don't want to be a forced seller, right? I think that's the other, that is a piece of advice I'd give people. That is financial advice. Don't be a forced seller. Don't put yourself in a situation where you need to get out of Bitcoin as soon as the high hits because you took on some stupid debt or you have an expense that's not really a necessity, but just a want and you just have to get out now because you didn't save enough money on the side. You don't have any cash, you don't have any stocks, you don't have any whatever.

You don't want to be a forseller of this thing. Not right now, which is rare because I think in the past, if I look at the COVID drop, people sold Bitcoin first when that stock market crashed. They had to cover shorts or whatever else they had to do. I'm not sure you'd see the same result now if you ended up in that situation. I'm not sure people would go to sell Bitcoin first. We'll see, maybe, if we do get a significant shot to the ribs here, economically speaking.

But for now, I just think, man, you'd be crazy to the ribs here, economically speaking. But for now, I just think like, man, you'd be, you'd be crazy to be selling this thing. It's just, it's just getting started. My opinion.

Yeah. I'm with you in spirit, but there are going to be times one offs that you're going to have to, even in the chat, we had somebody mentioning, I don't want to say his name just in case we'll dox him said he had to sell to pay a car repair bill. So if you don't have anything else an expense yeah

yeah i mean this happens and this is bitcoin it's you know it's used as a medium of exchange but remember the one thing that i always say and because i'm here and i don't want to give bad uh advice especially with cra remember any trade with bitcoin when you're moving that into anything else anything else it's a taxable event. Once you exchange Bitcoin to something else, you can figure out what something else is. It's a taxable event. Make sure you record that and

document it and declare that to CRA or whatever tax jurisdiction you live in if it's required. Yeah. Be on the up and up. Somebody else who doesn't plan to sell, in fact, they don't have the opportunity yet to sell, but they may want to buy is Arizona.

And they're conjuring up the idea of adding Bitcoin ETFs to their retirement portfolio. And this comes off because the Arizona Senate, they passed a bill to propose them to add this to their retirement portfolio. So the Arizona Senate is on passed a bill to propose them to add this to their retirement portfolio. So the Arizona Senate is on board with this. And the two state portfolios are the Arizona State Retirement System and the Public Safety Personnel Retirement System. And they each hold $49.1 billion for the first one and the second one $19.5 billion.

So it's So significant amount. This past Dennis Porter's fingerprints all order all over it. I guess it's just a breaking right away. So I'm looking at this and the amount of money they have access under management, there's no way in heck you're going to put a large percentage is going to be very, very small 1% a portion of 1% whatever heck it may be towards Bitcoin. This is probably the first of many, especially with this run-up there's going to be a lot of fomo coming in uh bonds aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing you know in terms of managing

your uh keeping your head above water and you're talking about the stock market aside from meta and nvidia for the past little while it's been chop chop sorry um sideways moving for for the most part didn't apple and microsoft do pretty well recently though apple's apple's having a hard time yeah really yeah why these stalwarts make seven i don't know i mean they released a virtual reality headset that looks like shit like it's not you know like there's no innovation we're kind of stuck. Take a phrase from Lindy Man. We're in stuck culture mode here.

The innovation is becoming more and more difficult because everything's got to be consumer-facing. Consumers don't want to change. I'm not 100% sure that those companies have an easy road ahead of them here. Plus, I've heard whispers on the Apple side that Tim is thinking about retiring, which is crazy. He's basically the last of the old guard right from the he's been there for a

long yeah hi yeah those are some hard hours especially under steve jobs he wasn't easy guy to work for and he was one of the two under him him and johnny i've i think was the other one and i've left years ago right so he did he when he wasn't picked i think he left i think i could be wrong um so those are some hard hours he put in and yeah he's not getting you know he's not a spring chicken i'm gonna guess he's in his early 60s am i right with his age i could be wrong 10 yeah he's probably 62 63 yeah yeah so early 60 So like, you know, he's done his time in purgatory, so to speak. Let him enjoy the rest of his life. He doesn't have to spend the rest of his life over there.

But anyways, to go back to Arizona State, I think this is something that is going to be copied, especially if they're able to put some on their balance sheet relatively soon and make gains. Yeah. Yeah. Why wouldn't other states do the same thing especially like once you see gains you see like your neighbors doing something you tend to want to copy what they're doing and even if there's a small amount even if they're putting like half a

percent in which is a significant amount and that outperforms every other asset class they have and in some cases if it does well enough it might be the other asset class they have. And in some cases, if it does well enough, it might be the best performing asset they have just in terms of actual dollars they're getting from it. Yeah. It makes perfect sense that others are going to do the same. So I see this as good, but ETFs, I wish they could hold their own keys.

There's got to be a way Arizona could hold their own keys, right? If they want to talk to me, I'll show them the way. We'll figure this out. There's got to be some solution we can come to, but either way, there's going to be more and more money piling into these Bitcoin ETFs. Why would they not, right? These are the guys who are in the most trouble in terms of their allocation to bonds and fixed income. You need something that's going to return for you. And you can use Bitcoin, I think at some point in the near future. I was actually just saying this to my dad this morning, that at some point in the near future, you're going to be able to use Bitcoin as collateral for loans pretty regularly. I think banks will get more involved in custody and allow you to do that.

And pensions and whatnot and public treasuries can do this too. There's no reason it has to be just a micro strategy thing to put it on your balance sheet. Now, Arizona can't issue equity to do it. Of course, they can't just spend debt, but- Why not? Well, I mean- I'm kidding. They probably aren't doing it for that. But it is funny though. The only thing it takes is someone, like you mentioned, saying to their investment board, man, see what Arizona just did? They're up 38% this year on that investment. That $1 billion is $2 billion after five years,

or that $1 billion is $6 billion after 10 years. We should have done that. What are we going to do? We got to keep up. Because ultimately, you're not trying to keep up with the index once other people in your silo are using Bitcoin. You're trying to keep up with Bitcoin. And for the first time now, a lot of these traditionally conservative investment vehicles are looking at Bitcoin and they're going to start to see the gains. They're going to start to get a taste for what it's like to experience an asset that has no counterparty risk. There is no quarterly reporting. There is no execution problems. There is no CEO sex scandal. It's just there. It's a scarce asset. It's digitally held, decentralized. And it's easy, honestly, when you compare it to all these other things that they're worried about, tertiary side effects and risks,

concerning risks, right? So to me, this is a no-brainer. I expect to see more of it. And like we talked about last week, a lot of the ETFs that these guys buy anyways, when they're buying equities for their pensions, especially, we talked about Ontario, we can talk about these guys too. They're going to start having Bitcoin in their ETFs. Fixed income ETFs are not going to be all bonds, all gold, all cash anymore. They're going to be some Bitcoin in there. And you're going to be saying to

yourself as a board or as an investment committee, why are we buying Bitcoin through this vehicle but not spot and holding it and taking advantage of the stuff that allows us to do the optionality like you said earlier of holding your own keys. You're going to start seeing this more and more. I think it's inevitable and I'm looking forward to it, man. It's like a whole new world for these guys that we've been talking about for years, but it's now just opening up to people who, as I've mentioned, are going to come into the space with a bunch of new ideas. Some of them we're not going to like, some of them we are.

And it's exciting for people in Bitcoin. It should be anyways. It should be exciting for people who are getting into it now for the first time too. You talked about gold. You just mentioned it very briefly. The circle jerk they were having, was it last week the weekend i don't know if it was when the price of gold was around or reached 2200 right that was didn't reach it didn't reach yet it got over 21 it's it's close to 22 now though and it's like uh let's see it's 2182 like that's a that's high Well, let me, somebody in our chat and I don't want to dox him just in case he doesn't want to be doxed. He did mention that adjusted for inflation.

That number is the all time high for gold is 2,800. So if you do the math, um, it's, we're a long way away from that. That's the inflation adjusted high. Yeah, maybe.

Yeah. So that, you know, we're fucking 2,100 or 2's the inflation adjusted high yeah maybe yeah so that you know we're fucking 2100 2200 with respect to the gold give me a fucking break do the numbers add it up and you'll see it's just a uh you know we're still they're still treading water at best yeah and it's a manipulated market altogether but another pension or at least something's right another investment fund in this case this is is the Stanford University student organization. This is the Charles R. Blythe Fund.

This they mentioned that they are going to be looking into buying some or they already have allocated some of their portfolio into Bitcoin. Now, this fund, it's only a six figure portfolio. Right now, it has stocks bonds other assets now bitcoin so it's not you know a huge uh huge value here six figures is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things but what they are doing is interesting and it could be a copy pasta that could be done moving forward with other schools so seven percent of their portfolio has been allocated towards Bitcoin. And they said that they have purchased the BlackRock ETF when it was at 45K. So in a very short order, their investment outperformed everything else.

Yeah. I'm not sure why they opted for the ETF and not hold your own keys. There may be some limitations from the fund preventing them from holding these keys. I do not know, but hopefully they will learn about the fundamentals that Bitcoin has to offer and encourage them to buy spot Bitcoin and put it in cool storage. But with respect for them to their,

their Bitcoin holdings right now, this is really bullish and looking at a whole bunch of student led. This is a student led initiative. This is the next generation of people coming up. And if they're showing that they could outperform these geezers out there that are managing these large pension funds, why wouldn't anybody else do the same thing? This,

this I find to be extremely bullish and I love to see that this could be copied more. So moving forward, but they also have to take into consideration the risk that comes along with it what goes up can come down and like i said at the beginning of the show this could come down hard fast and i don't know what the bottom would be are they ready for it who the fuck knows but this is fun to watch why do you think that i mean i get i get the caution on your part but what makes you think that the you know the crashes are going to be as violent as

they've been in the past now that you have this kind of perpetual ETF bid? I mean, the inflows are 200, 300 million a day, more sometimes. I think last Friday, we crossed 500 million in inflows. So what makes you think the demand... I mean, eventually you're going to have GBTC stop selling and the inflows, I mean, they might level out, but it's like, what would the crash have to be for it to be violent like it's been in the past? I honestly, I don't want to bite my tongue here later on, but if you told me to place a bet on whether or not I thought we were done with 50% crashes or not, I think I would say we were done with them. Like 50% or more, I think I'd say we were done with 50% crashes or not, I think I would say we were done with them.

50% or more, I think I'd say we were done. I think we're going to be a lot more tame now as far as these wild volatility swings in the price, just because of that perpetual bid, that floor that the ETFs help set. You can't sell on Saturday if you're an ETF guy. That's another thing, right? The markets are closed. People gather their wits. They talk to their advisors. They do all these things.

It's another point of friction. And that's where the money is, right? The guys who have been holding so long spot, they're not going to sell on a price dip anyway. So if you look at the hollow waves, let's say if you're a 12-month holder or whatever the number is, you're not going to sell on a price dip anyway. So if you look at the hollow waves, like let's say if you're a 12 month holder or whatever the number is, you're not going to sell at 20%. So you're not going to contribute to more of a dip. If you're an ETF person,

you're not going to be able to sell as soon as you want to because you have to go through your advisor potentially. And if you're someone who holds ETF or you're on your own, I mean, maybe you sell, but do you sell all of it? Or do you buy more? Like, have you learned, but do you sell all of it or do you buy more? Have you learned about the BTFD sort of mantra, right? It's a mimetic world. I think there's potential that we've kind of seen the last of this because of these things. I don't want to jinx it, but when I think about all those things together, it seems unlikely we continue to get

these 75, 80% drops, even 50%, like I said earlier. It seems like a bit of a stretch now. What was the number you quoted coming in? 200 million a day? Yeah, 200 or 300, I think. Why can't it be the reverse when people are angry with Bitcoin for whatever reason? Why can't that be a negative 200 to 300 million? It could, but I think for me, the points of friction on the way out are greater than the points of friction on the way in are greater than the points of friction on the way in.

You know what I mean? If you got to talk to your advisor, your advisor doesn't want you to sell. Presumably, you've been waiting to buy the Bitcoin. I mean, if you look at pent-up demand, there's something to that. The inertia that this is coming from on the buy side, you're not going to get the same inertia out. It doesn't really make sense to have both. You can't have both. The pent-up demand for the inflow is one thing but you're not gonna have pent up demand for the

outflows you know what i'm saying like this doesn't mean anything is possible joy and you were saying that you can't do it on the weekend now i just looked at the last three weekends what happened on sunday night monday morning before markets opened up we went in february 25th to the 26th that was sunday into monday we went from 51 to 54 yeah pretty good jump when the markets were closed then when the north american markets closed when the north american markets closed yeah china and europe parts of china and europe are open right so so then then it just goes to show you this could happen 24 7 just about unless for that brief moment where markets are closed. Fair enough.

Because it's Saturday from, but enough of the market's not open to move the price 50% and keep, they keep moving the price action quickly in one direction. I think, I think those days are, I honestly think those days are done. I think they're done. I,

you know what? I I've seen enough of this, and anything is possible. And I am not going to bat an eye if over a period of time, it's not going to happen in a week, but over a six-month to a one-year period of time, theoretically you go from like 72 back to 20 over a long enough period of time. I would not fucking bat an eye there could be many different reasons why this happens and i you know what it wouldn't surprise

me one fucking bit so we'll leave it at that next up joey mutiny wallet we talked about this very little right very very little they claim to be a non-custodial fully automated lightning wallet for mobile devices with nostril integration and up until now this was only available for browsers and people uh mutiny decided to rectify this and they released the ios and android version so people can now download from the the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store. And it has been a little while since I have used Mutiny Wallet. I've tried it out several months ago. So it's hard for me to see exactly how it is right now. But at the time, I had some issues with it.

It's good that it's no longer 100% browser-based. I wouldn't trust a wallet that is wholly browser-based. There's a bunch of reasons for it because a browser is a utility that you're using and the security around that, I think it's rather suspect at best. You never know what's going to happen.

When I did try Mutiny some time ago, again, I'm not sure if they changed it, but when I did, Mutiny defaulted to their own servers. At the time, I tried looking to see how it is to run my own server. The process wasn't very straightforward. So I think that's kind of a knock against them. And when I was digging into this a little bit further, people that make me an entity, like I'm just looking at this now, I formed the opinion that the best approach is something which is open source which mutiny is so it's open source great but i also like running something locally i want to have my own servers running at the whole nine yards i want

to have so much control seems that mutiny is getting there but right now it's just not there so i'm going to give them credit that they are getting moving into the right direction but opening it up for something on the app store or the play store it's just the front end the way i understand it for something on the browser the real way to use this the proper way to use this would be to run your own server to point everything to it and just to try to to get as much custody of your Bitcoin rather than relying on somebody else's server. By doing so, you have way more control and privacy is then, you know, you could control

the privacy at that particular moment. So yeah, I just want to say that there's good with and bad with mutiny. I'm not going to say it's all good, but it's certainly not all bad. There's trending in the right direction. Yeah. Opti in the chat saying there's trade-offs. And there's trade-offs with all this stuff, man. The likelihood that we start getting wallets that have figured out these massive swaps between custody and trust, and especially on the Lightning side, it's going to be very,

very difficult. So I'm not holding my breath for that. But like you mentioned, it's going to get better. And it's getting better. All the wallets are competing against each other now in a way they haven't been before, thanks to the fee market and thanks to just the pure volume of people coming into the space. I'm looking forward to seeing what... Is it possible in your mind that a firm like Fidelity or BlackRock puts together a small team to work on something like Lightning?

I haven't even thought about that. I don't know if it is or not. Yeah, I don't know, but it's at least not out of the realm of possibility anymore. The Overton window has expanded so much in the last two months. Now that these guys are on board and want to make the network as strong and valuable as possible, I think it's important stuff. And I don't know if they're talking about it at that level yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Fidelity Digital put out a research paper

on lightning in the next month, two months. Yeah, see, I talked about this. I mentioned it once in our other chat, that the reason why I don't see a lot of development going on with lightning, there is development, but it seems like there's other things that are getting a lot of attention. And the reason why is there's not much money that could be made within lightning when you set up your own side chain or something along those lines there are potentials to make

some or a lot of money because you can control the whole system with lightning let's be honest you know you could route fees but how well okay here's the thing right don't think about don't think about the routing fees right think about the bigger picture if you're a fidelity or a black rock and you want this thing to rip okay you've already sold your clients on the store of value narrative they get it they're buying it at you know in droves what if you could start selling them on, okay, this is actually an international settlement asset for the individual, as well as the corporation, the central bank, and the nation state actor. And here's how it is.

It's Lightning Network. We're developing a Lightning Network wallet or app or something because they're driving the value of the sort of capital B Bitcoin network, right? And that drives value for their investment, drives value for their customers, drives value for their bottom line. That's more what I mean. I don't think BlackRock is going to put together a bunch of fucking nodes. They're not going to do that. BlackRock's not going to be opening channels. They're not going to be doing that. I didn't express myself properly. The reason why they wouldn't do anything with respect to

Lightning is because there's no money in it.'re fiat driven they're trying to increase their profitability and by spinning up something else that they could push out and say look this is an easy way than to settle money on a global scale oh by the way we could also take a little bit of the cut on the side like a feddyman for instance right you don't know where they are involved or side chain where they are involved. I can see that being more being something that they'll push more. So you think I would imagine so because they could they have their hand in the pot and they could take every time they want to rather than with lightning, which as a Bitcoiner, I'd prefer to see there are limitations with lightning. Don't get me wrong. It's not it's not perfect, but I could see them wanting to either build something else or tap into

something else that's already prebuilt where they could get a little bit of slice of the pie. That's what I would, that's what I think they would do. They're profit driven. They're not Bitcoin driven. They were Bitcoin driven. They would do a lightning,

but maybe I can be proven wrong and I hope I'm proven wrong, but I that it's we'll see we'll see yeah yeah let's uh talk about since we're talking about development something called portal i'm not sure if you saw this it's from 22 devices and it's a new mobile native hardware wallet portal and this one works with a smartphone so if you have a smartphone like i do and everybody else does it works with that it's uh really interesting it's open sourced that's good and uses nfc to communicate with the phone but not only that the nfc also powers the device so it's using the power from the phone i knew i knew you're gonna like this look at the smile on your face i knew you going to like this thing as soon as I saw it. It's interesting,

but it's not perfect because let's be honest, NFC is good, but it's not, you know, there's always going to be some questions surrounding that, especially when you're dealing with your own money here, but there is no physical connection. That's what I'm trying to get at with this NFC.

And you could pre-order these devices right now, a hundred dollars usd expected to be shipped either the summer of 2024 this year or either or q3 of 2024 so you're going to get it within the next six months or so if you pre-order it now so the good it's open source i like that yeah the bad i i'm gonna say nfc like anything to do with nfc you know with my cold card i turned all that shit off i turned uh nfc like it's totally air gap now i understand why they want to do this if it's for a phone it's going to be for funds you want to spend on the go right so but even there right right away causes me an issue because when i'm talking about funds

that i have that's associated with my phone, there's going to be some security holes. Like a phone is not secure. No matter what phone you're running, there's always going to be some security problems with it. So you're not going to have a lot of Bitcoin associated with it. I hope not. You're going to use this for your spending. But still, this poses a problem.

In my mind, it's hard for me to wrap what is the best way moving forward because ultimately people are going to want to spend Bitcoin and they will spend bitcoin on the go you can't spend it from home from your computer you got to spend it on the go with your phone so somehow you're going to have to find a way to make use of whatever technology you have to spend it maybe this might be it i don't know but i think in my eyes if i were to do it i'm guessing guessing a Zeus, have Zeus on my phone, connect it to my home lightning node. That is probably the most secure. Or even going a little bit further, maybe having my Linux phone

and running something on that where I could actually, you know, it's more of a secure phone and more of a secure OS. Maybe that is the better way to do it because I don't want to lose anything with my Bitcoin. I want to have that totally secure or as secure as possible with me. But I have to understand the fact that we have to live in reality here and people are not going to go to those extremes. So maybe Portal is the answer. I don't know.

I'm curious to see how this works in the real world, though. Portal looks cool. It's open source. The hardware looks really, really nice. It's like a really fly looking piece of hardware. I don't know what the plan is though for hardware wallets and small spends as the fees go up so i get the need to have this thing like working with your phone but like are you going to spend you know like what is the minimum like let's say it's a million stats right

what's a million stats right now a thousand bucks gonna keep a thousand canadian yeah it's like 700 do you do that for your bitcoin on your phone and just keep your wallet with you all the time like that's a good point I didn't think about that I don't know that you would right I'm not sure that you would do that and so the thing I the thing I think about more and more and I don't know if this is even feasible but are we heading toward a world where you actually are just spending fiat against the Bitcoin you hold. And what you're actually looking for is not quite a hardware wallet, but rather like a hardware,

like stack of verification device of some kind. Like, here's what I have. Here's what I can send you via lightning another time. And like you trade on trust, you know, I know it's a dirty word here, but then you open dime,

then you just hand it over physically. Kind of maybe something like that. Or even like, you know, here's a, here's a dirty word here, but then you sell- Would it be an open dime that you just hand it over physically? Kind of, maybe something like that. Or even like, here's a signed set of data that says, this is how much Bitcoin is in this wallet at this address. I want to spend this much fiat. And then you settle with a third party at a later date or something, like a credit card almost against your Bitcoin. And the Bitcoin just doesn't move. To me, that's kind of where you're headed in the fee market,

the way it is. As much as I like the hardware, I'm a big guy, like a big trinket guy, but I don't see how as fees go up, anyone is using any of this stuff anymore. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It doesn't fit with the, with the, the economics of Bitcoin as the price rises. There's one thing that's going to be taking place. It's the having, the having is expected to happen on April 20th. So do your research when it's going to take place as we get closer to it. But on the having date, the 84,000th block, um, 840,000 bucks. bucks um what is it iou podcast i like that so there's gonna be

casey rodimer's releasing fuck i forget the name of that stupid thing that he's gonna release runes runes that's it and that potentially can clog up the mempool. Perfect. Two for two from this guy. Yeah, it's just a bunch of winners. So what I'm trying to say is, if you haven't yet consolidated your UTXOs, and if you don't want to do it,

I'd be happy to show you the process. Do it now. The fees, shoot it. Take a look really quick. I'm looking right now they're uh with 30 sass per v by for high priority yeah 27 so you're about 30 anyways no matter where you sit in the they're cheap in my opinion they're cheap right that's that's always the answer cheaper than they're gonna be you may want to wait but really do it now do it yesterday but don't wait till tomorrow because you never know what's going to

happen apparently this whole runes shit on 420 is going to fuck things up and if you haven't consolidated by then you're going to wish you've done so i could be wrong though maybe these will remain cheaper not technical advice not financial it certainly, but it's a good opportunity for people to understand how to do consolidation of your UTXOs. Because you're always going to be doing this if you have on-chain transactions. It's buying Bitcoin now because it's so expensive. It's going to be hard to buy big chunks of Bitcoin. So you're going to have these smaller transactions now that's going to be associated with your with your hardware device and so yeah you know that's what i'm trying to say learn how to do consolidation of transactions right away because it only makes sense and if you need help i mean oh pretty easy

sparrow sparrow does a good job making it easy for you too if you haven't you know tried it on sparrow i recommend it's very very simple let's see do we have anything else you want to talk you want to talk about uh really quick black rock wanting to put bitcoin exposure on their uh high yield fund it's not a shock what a shock i mean we don't have to talk about it i'd rather not actually because i can feel my meds wearing off here we're getting okay we get pushed let's push through yeah let's push through let's do this and the bitcoin related stuff thank Thank you for listening. And for the video side, it's going to be a seamless transition to the next part.

So with that, don't be a cock. Are you a fan of the old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast, from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.