The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #162 (Bitcoin Stories) - What Saylor DID, Ver Dodges Taxes, Privacy Tools Under Assault

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -MicroStrategy DID what? -Roger the tax dodger -Bitcoin ETF news -Wasabi is done -Block about to be anal probed by DOJ? and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, a beautiful Monday night as always. A boat's been an eventful Monday night here on CBP, joined by my co-host who's been on hiatus for reasons well known uh buddy what's going on over there it's super nice over here where i am i know we don't live too far away from each other but uh i hope everything is good over there too no it's very nice joy it's very very nice although i

didn't spend very much time outside i've been holed up very busy day for me and yeah whatever busy day for bitcoin busy week for bitcoin busy week and trad five busy everything i can't believe what's going on i missed one week yeah i boycott miss one week and they drop the hammer and all this privacy stuff and the hammer just keeps falling down where people are avoiding the hammer and just going into holes it's just nuts what's happened in the past little while i can't believe it this might be the last time I ever take any time off. Pretty crazy, eh? The week we just had, it's one of those weeks where everything,

what was I saying, right? There's years where nothing happens, then there's years where decades happen or whatever. I don't know if that's really the saying, but something of that nature. Crazy, though. Crazy stuff that's been going on more today, obviously, with Wells notices and clampdowns, even since Scribe and I talked on Monday. Anyways, let's talk about the sponsors.

Then we'll get into all the stuff that everyone wants to hear. First of all, EZDNS, best place for you to acquire a domain name. Mark and team, the Friendly Neighborhood Registrar. Post your content there, canadianbitcoiners.com. There's no research report this week because I was super busy on the weekend. But Len, as always, putting up the what's to come on the Monday show. And in the interview space for us, every week he puts that up. Plus, Len, other things available on EasyDNS.

Don't forget, okay? You can bring your emails over there. If you want to bring a domain over there with email or without, you can do that. If you want to get a little bit of help setting up a domain or setting up email, you can do that. Also, virtual private server, a suite of options for you there. Whether you want to do Bitcoin nodes, BTC pay server, node lists, you name it, anything you want. And of course, Mark and team always there to help out. They've given us a a ton of help and i know that he's jumped into action a bunch of times to help you guys out too so if you're looking to do that head over easy ns.com tell them we sent you use

the code cbp media and your first round of purchases is half off can't beat that not a not a bad way to start your relationship with mark and the team over there let's not forget about bull bitcoin right and today i think today is the last day that you could buy kyc free bitcoin through canada post using bull bitcoin it's either today or tomorrow i don't know how it works but either way you have just mere hours to go ahead so if you love kyc free bitcoin and you want to use bull bitcoin to do it you only have just hours to get that done so go ahead and do that but they don't just only sell right now. KYC, they also sell on chain, you could and not just on chain, you could also buy with lightning.

So when the transaction fees are high, you could use lightning, you can also sell with lightning. You can also sell on chain a lot of different options with bull Bitcoin. You can also pay your bills with your Bitcoin. You know, if you have a stack of Bitcoin, you made some tremendous gains and you want to start using that. Well, through Bull Bitcoin, you can start using the Bitcoin that you have stacked and use that to pay your bills. Pretty cool stuff.

Also, you could use the Bitcoin that you have stacked and you could buy gift cards. Use that in a real world and then you can start buying stuff indirectly with Bitcoin. So you're living on the Bitcoin standard. That's pretty darn cool.

A lot of options that you have with Bull Bitcoin. As I mentioned before, the last few hours are upon us. KYC free. Canada Post. Do your orders. If you haven't, I mean, you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Open up an account. Use

our promo code below. Do that. Fund your account. Provide the necessary information. $21 is going to be added to your account. No questions asked. Can't beat it, can't beat it let's um let's do a little housekeeping so last week in your absence a busy week here on cbp we had obviously scribe who i want to thank once again for filling in i was just on youtube today positive comments uh i got a few dms from people saying they appreciate what he's been doing uh for the show obviously he's calling under a few different names and uh a wealth of knowledge so we're people saying they appreciate what he's been doing for the show. Obviously, he's coming under a few different NIMS and a wealth of knowledge.

So we're happy to have him anytime he's available to fill in for one of us. You can't beat that. Your two favorites, Bailey and Goodwin, last week on Tuesday night. A lot of positive feedback on that interview. I think some people, much like you, upset that they came on. But overall, I haven't heard anyone say that they didn't find some value. Great. Wednesday, high hash rate. I did late at night with the boys there. I got to tell you, Len, I don't know how you managed to do that show so late at night. I was

exhausted, but I still think we had a really good conversation. And then Thursday, I did Why Are We Bullish with, who's I on there with? Bitcoin Walks. That's a great initiative, by the way. Go for a walk and talk about Bitcoin. I love that. Ben Justman, winemaker, based winemaker out of Colorado. And who's the other person that was on there with me? Ben Barron.

No, Ben was there for sure. I thought there was one more. No, that was it. No, that was it. No, that was it. There's four of us. Yeah, of course. And then Friday, if you haven't heard yet, go check out my interview on Michael Campbell's Money Talks.

Mike and I don't often trade notes before the show, but this week they asked for some stuff that he could brush up on a few days before the interview. And then Friday when I talked to him in the afternoon, right away he said, listen, we got to abandon all that stuff. There's too much going on. The clamps, like you said, Len, starting to come down,

the heavy hand of the regulators coming down, Canada, the United States and elsewhere. So we talked about that and went over some of the threats and trends on that front. This week, another two interview week, I think, right? Tomorrow. I have one on Wednesday. Tomorrow. I'm talking to Richard Diaz,

Rich Diaz from loony hour, who completes our collection of loony hour host lens spoke with Steve Stretzky. I think in 2023, uh, I had Keith thicker on late last year as well, November, 2023.

And then, uh, Rich is the last one rich. I think he shares a lot of our views, Len, on some of the risks in markets, some of the risks in policy error and overreach. And I'm interested in hearing some of the stuff he has to say about everything from Canadian markets to Bitcoin to I think some of the sort of social aspects of market action, if that's the term that you would use for something like that, there's been, I think, something we talked about on the show a lot, a lack of narrative control from the usual controllers of narrative over the last two, three, four years. And it's starting, I think, to cause friction.

So I'm looking forward to talking to him very much. I think he's a very smart guy who isn't doing enough public appearances, in my opinion. But we'll see if we can change that. And then Wednesday, you're talking to... Fundamentals. Yeah. Robby for Bitcoin, right? Yeah.

That's right. So yeah, he's been communicating for a little while offline. And yeah, he's our boy from Philly. I know that he's communicated that he was an idiot savant that played 94 back in the day. And I want to talk to him about that. But yeah, he shares a lot of the same values I do. So I look forward to chatting with him.

And he was just on high hash rate not too long ago. In fact, the episode was just uploaded last week. So I think he was on before you went or maybe a week or two there are a few episodes back i think i was on the feed today brandon keys the green candle brandon was on there recently uh heartland was on there recently um or was it both high hash rate guys i forget now but uh i mean there's a lot of and i said this on the high hash rate show there's so much value i think in like pleb podcasts like ours, like theirs, that because I think sometimes as a pleb, you kind of forget that you have so much more experience than the average person

when it comes to Bitcoin and certainly more experience than like new market participants who are coming into the space for the first time, whether it be equities or in the layer one asset. And that kind of experience, a lot of times goes on, I don't know, what's the word? Unshared or undershared because people are afraid to have their voices heard, right? They're usually not in a position where they're the subject matter expert, but thanks to podcasts like theirs and like ours and like others, we're all getting a voice. And I think it's helping, Len. I really do. That's why we do the show and that's why they do the show, I'm sure. So yeah, I'm excited for both of those.

I want to apologize to The Fundamentals because I know he tweeted that he's looking forward to talking to us. I have dinner plans on Wednesday night. Otherwise, I would certainly hop in. But I try and get dinner with my old man at his place once a week if I can swing it. And it's getting harder and harder to swing it these days, unfortunately, with work and the show and some other stuff that i'm not ready to share quite yet but probably will be in the next few weeks and uh yeah it's it's um

it's busy it's a busy time over here i know you're busy too len so i appreciate you making time for um for fundamentals on wednesday night no i'll be happy to chat with him all day long you know what if we like i said we share a lot of the same values with respect to bitcoin and video games so we'll uh be happy to chat with him and stream any game you stream a game no i don't think he's up to it because his setup is not yet complete buddy get get with it man i was telling him get some online help get because he's having some issues with the course i don't know what the fuck it is anyway yeah figured i shit out that's beyond my pay grade but i got some boost joy i do have some boost i want to get off my chest strip it so you know we got okay this guy edit a user like change your name put in a user because

this guy user six seven seven one seven blah blah blah just so many numbers put a name in there anyways he says good discussion like to hear all sides and this is with respect with you and the two cucks from the magazine people and mo btc dick 500 stats great to hear these guys opinions on this sort of stuff good to hear how they're thinking actions speak louder than words i guess doom to mazum 521 stats thank you for your time he's back at it doing his thank you for your time stuff. I love it. Yeah, so do I. Owen, 21, 521stats, this was a great discussion.

Bitcoin cancel culture is 100% a thing, and I'm sure most of us have censored our thoughts at one time or another to prevent judgment. We are, after all, a tribal species. Anyway, I don't pretend I have the answers to what is right or wrong ordinals are a rich man game actually they're scammers if you go away something else will come along i'm just keeping gonna keep stacking stats and supporting open source fuck them and that's it he puts an emoji there of just like him doing a yoga pose nice i've never seen it before the zen pose he's zen after that episode that's it the zen that's it yeah and

rander 555 sats smith machine for the win i personally use it all the time how the fuck could you not ha ha smith machine's good i mean boomer gives me some shit on twitter once in a while for smith machine although i wasn't using it today. I will say that there's, there comes a time, I think in your like lifting career, where if you're maxing out and you, you know, two and a half pound plates are still making you a little weary in terms of like, you know, am I going to be able to get this wrap up? Do I really trust this guy spotting me? Blah, blah, blah. You really, you, the Smith machine is important because you can really load up and build strength. I'm choosing that word very carefully. Build strength in a way that perhaps free bar

barbell will not allow you to do when you're concerned about crushing your larynx underneath the bar. And so you build up on the Smith machine to a, you know, a high, high, high weight. And then you can back off to the barbell and make that two and a half pound or five pound jump. And then, you know, continue your overload progress. There's also like deloading and stuff you can do, but I've never tried that to be honest with you.

Right now I'm dealing with a calf strain, which is really pissing me off, but that's neither here nor there. I just figured. Always a lower body injury for, uh, cause I'm, I play too many sports.

That's a problem. Yeah. Too much explosive movement. let's tell you that much there's a joke to be made there about lower body explosive movement but we'll save it for another time second breakfast 720 sats he writes in or she writes in canadian real estate is so fucked i don't know it's hard to debate against that but you know what it's always it seems like there's always going to be room for this to grow yeah but the canadian dollar obviously is going to get wrecked at the same time so yeah i was talking to scott deddles deedles about this on twitter a while ago i'm not talking to him but we had like a you know back and forth he thinks

there's a huge crash coming i just i i don't see how it's possible honestly it's just more and more and more people coming in neither party wants to stop extending AMS. The amount of exposure our pensions have to the CRE and probably the, to residential real estate, whether directly or indirectly or second order. I just don't see any chronic. Like, I mean, if there's a, if a real estate crash really happens in this country, you're going to feel it more than you would any kind of, you know, hard landing. I'll say that much. I think that's a safe bet. Anything else you want to discuss before we dive right into it?

Because I'm done my checklist. No, I think that's it. I think that's it. All right. That's it. Yeah. Let's go right into it because we could talk about a few related. Man, I got a lot of Bitcoin related stuff I want to talk about because Roger, well, he's the accused tax dodger.

And he was arrested in Spain this past week. And the U.S., they've completed the mission to nab Roger Ver. And I guess they could get the Achievement Unlocked Award for this one. I don't know how rare this is. But anyways, showed off that rage quitting the united states isn't as clean as most people think it is and for those who have already ditched the u.s i'm kind of looking at people like you max you know like take note what's happened here i'm not sure if you guys have all done the clean way of doing things but it could get rather nasty moving forward and the u.s government they're

making claims that the dodger was involved in mail fraud tax fraud and filing false tax returns okay and these allegations are that he also sold a significant amount of bitcoin somewhere in the vicinity of 240 million dollars worth through his u.s based companies and this was done back in 2017. And through this all, there's a claim that he concealed these sales from his accountant and of such he was then failed to report this and pay this on his taxes. And well, you know, apparently he owes somewhere in the vicinity of $48 million to

the IRS. This is all as per what I am reading. I don't know what the truth is here, but whatever. And this has also led to providing false information to his law firm and his appraiser, leading to underestimation of his company's value, company's value, sorry, and also his personal Bitcoin holdings and his tax returns. There's a few different things. This just basically, it's a cascade effect here. And now following his arrest in Spain, the US is seeking his extradition, and they're going to be hopefully putting him to trial. That's their goal here. That's what they want to do. Personally, though, I have to say myself, I have no opinion on this arrest, none, because I don't have all the information. I think only

Roger, and maybe the IRS really have all the information here because I'm just reading what I could read. And I don't think I have all the information to connect thoughts. But it makes me wonder what the fuck is going on, though, is, you know, the perception here is that there is an effort to make life painful for people in this space is by going after Roger. And so more than anything, make this a warning for anybody out there, not just the maxes of the world, but everybody make sure you follow the rules as much as possible. I know this sounds to be like, you know, selling or whatever. Let's be honest, we live in a world we live in society, you have to follow the rules. If you don't,

you're going to potentially suffer the consequences. So depending on your jurisdiction, you live, if you transact in Bitcoin, you're going to potentially suffer the consequences. So depending on the jurisdiction you live, if you transact in Bitcoin, you may need to report all this and you have to be forthcoming with a lot of this information. Now, with all that being said, I do have to say that all this stuff that's going on with the United States, it seems to be

the United States is leading the cause here, leading the way here with all these actions and enforcements. Canada, for whatever reason, seems to be more accepting of what's going on. I know Canada doesn't seem to be as, they're not going out. Aside from the Canada post stuff, we can still buy KYC-free Bitcoin. There's no rules or anything against that. Transacting it, we understand what are the rules and regulations surrounding that.

On-ramps, they're still available. Now, they may go after them in the future but to date things seem to be much better i would say in canada than it is in the united states which respect what's going on in the world of bitcoin maybe that's my perception maybe i'm just i'm surrounded by trees and i can't see outside of it but that's just the way i see things okay i'll touch on that first since you just said it we there is there's a proposal in place as part of the budget that there is not going to be any more kyc free bitcoin you have to report all your buys starting next year so whether you you know if you do kyc free or like kyc either

with bull or atms or whatever uh at that point if that legislation passes and you don't report your buys you know you're Roger Ver. You're the Canadian Roger Ver at that point. A couple of things I want to note here. Ver is accused of basically relinquishing his US citizenship without going through the normal tax implications and paying the normal taxes. When you relinquish your US citizenship, you don't just get to throw it in the garbage and do a little dance on TikTok. You have to pay an exit tax. And the exit tax is some percentage. I'm trying to find it here. It depends on where you look, but it's some percentage of the net unrealized gain on all your assets, all of them, homes, currency, jewelry, art, sunglasses, cameras, Bitcoin, everything. The day before your

expatriation, that's the date. So if he expatriated, I don't know, in whatever year, I guess it would be like 2016, 17, something like that. Assuming the guy's got thousands of Bitcoin, it's a big chunk of change. Then you talk about real estate and other stuff too, whatever other cryptos this guy's holding. And he's holding a bunch. I just heard him on a space the other day or the other week talking about how he's got a bunch of other shit. So he didn't pay tax on any of that. Now, in my head, if I just leave it there, I think a lot of people in TradFi are going

to go, this guy's just another tax cheat. All these Bitcoin people are just tax cheats, blah, blah, blah. Okay, no, I think that's not fair. I think there's many more tax cheats in TradFi than there are in Bitcoin. That's almost a no brainer just because of volume at the very least, certainly in total value. But I would also argue there's more individuals and corporations who are cheating the tax man in TradFi because the microscope is so much more finely fixed on people who are affiliated with Bitcoin. And if you think that this is just a case of a guy who happens to have a high profile or happens to be easy to grab because of the amount of dollars

being a tax sheet, I would refer you to the Office of Public Affairs for the US Justice Department. And I would ask you to go through the releases and see if you notice anyone being tagged with any of the quote unquote, like cultural references or relevances they may have. Cullen RochechiazioN how the thing is worthless and now done with enforcement, both on the side of Samurai and now VAR. From the Office of Public Affairs website, early Bitcoin investor charged with tax fraud. No name, no nothing. Subheading, man known as Bitcoin Jesus evaded nearly 50 million in taxes. No sane person can tell me that this is not an attempt to scare the fuck out of everyone else who's holding Bitcoin and maybe is not sure about how much taxes they should have paid over the last 10 years. You just can't tell me that. I don't believe it. And I think that if you, again, if you look back

in the press releases here, I have the website up, you can go back as long as you want. Court bars Missouri CPA from promoting charitable remainder annuity trust tax scheme. Florida hospital system agrees. Five federal departments joined justice for me to reaffirm a shared commitment to uphold civil rights laws. There's nothing in here from the last God knows how long about specific cultural relevancies that are related to the people that they're apprehending or charging or alleging committed tax fraud. You can make of this what you will.

But like I said, any sane person looks at this and understands that they're trying to send a message, it's to you and me. It's to you and me. They're trying to send messages to people who hold Bitcoin and saying, you are not outside the long arm of the law. Luke Gromen Now, to our credit, I think we've never suggested that. And I think many Bitcoiners would make the case that if I was going to commit some kind of fraud, Bitcoin would be the worst thing to possibly do it with. It's easily traceable.

There's tons of KYC options. Depending on how you feel about chain analysis, it's pretty easy to track down a wallet. And even better, Len, no one manages their UTXOs. So it's like no doubt that if someone is cultivating taxes, they're going to know exactly how much Bitcoin you have when you leave the country or relinquish your citizenship or whatever. This is not a tool for evading taxes. It's a tool for avoiding debasement. And that's what the messaging is trying to skirt around.

It's not about, oh, well, people are holding Bitcoin. Actually, I shouldn't say this, but it's not about... The messaging is not trying to say, look, you shouldn't hold Bitcoin because it's just a way to avoid taxes. The messaging is trying to say, if you hold Bitcoin, we are looking at you. If you hold Bitcoin, we will find you. Even Bitcoin Jesus was caught. I will also say, I'd be curious how you feel about this. This messaging is for us, I think. I'm using us in like the sort of royal sense, the Bitcoin holders. I don't think any Bitcoin holders actually take this messaging seriously.

Yeah, I think what you will see instead is less new participants to the self-custody market, which we've talked about in the past, is I think what the government is looking to really lean on. Got to keep people away from self-custody. Got to keep people away from holding their own keys, force them into the ETF, cattle pen, and hold the Bitcoin for them. They get exposure to the price, but not to the freedom. Which by the way, Mark Goodwin, Bitcoin Magazine, if you, if you took the transcript of the stuff he said on Monday and told people that you said it about the ETF and self custody, they'd believe it. Uh, yeah, I think I know I see a murderer in jail who basically turns his life around

and, well, I mean, may have turned his life and says that he's found Jesus and he's repented and he's reformed and all this stuff. But look at the body of work. You know, you've killed a number of people. Fortunately, you know, not only did the courts claim he was a murderer, but the court of public opinion claimed he was a murderer. Point taken. But I will say that I think there's something to be said here about this idea that there's an attempt now to herd people into these vehicles and away from self-custody. I think there's a chance that the money transmission thing, I didn't say this on Mike's show, but I talked to him about it afterwards,

the money transmission license thing that Samurai is being accused of or Whirlpool is being accused of, up until 2019, in any ruling, including private letter rulings, money transmission used to mean receiving and transmitting currency. Well, there's no receipt of currency or money in the Samurai's case. And so again, we'll talk about this with Robin Hood. We'll talk about it here. There's an attempt to create law through enforcement action, to create jurisprudence and precedent through enforcement action. It's not right. This is not how the law is supposed to work. And I said it last Monday, I'll say it again. You got to ask yourself,

here in Canada, we got the Bitcoin coalition, who, like I said last week, many of you guys have messaged me and told me they don't fucking do anything except take pictures at conferences. In the States, you have Coin Center, this outfit that tweets out memes and claims to be influencing legislation, though clearly is not in any meaningful way. And we continue to say, look, we have to engage in good faith with governments and try and... Why? They're not engaging with good faith, even in their own laws, let alone with what you're planning on doing, like usurping this, you know, sinking ship. They would rather have you rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic than allow you a lifeboat period end the story. And so like, I just, all these things together are frustrating to me. And that's why this morning,

when you sent me the thumbnail, I'm like, fuck, we're mad about this, I guess, because I'm pissed at everything. We should be, because it's not fair. What are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to do? You can't, if you ask for guidance, you don't get it. And we'll talk about that with the Robinhood thing. If you ask for guidance from the SEC or whoever in the States, you don't get it. And if you ask for ways to hold the vehicle in an ETF tax advantage account, you don't get it. And then you ask for, what am I supposed to do when I leave the country? You're supposed to pay your taxes. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. I don't know. We'll find out. Samurai guys, okay, we're not going to be a money transmitter because we don't receive the money. Well, too bad. Now

we're taking that out of the definition. The rules are fluid only for one team in the game. And so it's like the same know, it's like the same way I used to play games with my younger brother when we were kids. You know, if there was ever a moment where I thought I was going to lose, I just changed the rules. What's he going to do? Nothing. He's, you know, smaller than me, younger than me, dumber than me. That's how, that's how, you know, that's how they, that's how we are viewed by the, the, the Leviathan at the moment. My question remains for these people. Yeah. My question remains for these people who are like, That's how we are viewed by the Leviathan at the moment. Love it. My question remains for these people.

Yeah. My question remains for these people who are like, whatever, touting their action and their influence. What the fuck have you been doing? Because whatever it is, it's not fucking working. So go find some other slant. All of you guys stop telling people you're helping. Stop telling people you're engaging. Stop telling people you're helping.

Stop telling people you're engaging. Stop telling people you're in the room. You're not. It's clear. If you're in the room, you're just serving the fucking coffee and throwing the cups in the garbage. Because you're sure as shit not influencing policy. Here, the US, in Europe, anywhere. And so, Len, what do we do?

We got to keep playing cat and mouse. There's nothing we could do. There's nothing you should do. What should we do? Okay, what do you think sit back and enjoy this this is an open source decentralized technology there's no and i've said this many a time there's nothing these guys could do to stop this fucking thing they could ban mining they could ban on ramps they could ban the whole fucking thing all they want it will do nothing it may slow it down but it does not change the fact this thing is going to fucking take over i love it and that's i love watching this take take an effect it shows you that it is on their minds and they want to do something to prevent it or make it more difficult for people

yeah make it more difficult for new people eventually they'll fucking learn that people are already in this the space they know how to fucking to use it and they'll use it as much as they can not to their advantage but just to as per the letter of the law i could buy bitcoin you were mentioning in canada they might stop that and with their reporting even kyc free buys until that's all buys right all buys yeah the other yeah yeah until that's instituted you're able to buy just like there's that report in canada saying that they're saying if you have to leave you have to pay 25 000 and you're going to pay i forget there's some taxes until that's instituted you're able to do it so and even then who knows what's going to happen so as per right

now hey man i'm buying i'll keep stacking and enjoy it you know like it's the good thing that it's it there may be a lot of these things going around out there but it it you know like it's the good thing that it's it there may be a lot of these things going around out there but it's you know what it doesn't i'll be in montreal with a camera and mics and i would love if like brad mills carlo campisi like all these policy people explain to me what you guys have been doing because I, you know, I, I, I like you. I like Brad. I like Carlo. Carlo was like our fucking first girlfriend, you know, when we started the podcast, you know what I mean? And like, I want those guys to be successful, but I think they're going about it the wrong way at this point. You know, you know, at some point you have to admit that you're

throwing good money after bad, you know, it's like every time every time they are up in the middle of the night, their girlfriend is texting some name they don't recognize, and they just keep going back to bed. I just don't know. What are you supposed to do? They're an insignificant player in this game. Either they achieve something or they don't achieve something. Again, at this particular moment, I have no more fucks left to give.

Whatever happens, happens. And that's basically it. It will not change my opinion on the way I'm going to be doing things. And I'll preach to anybody who will listen how it is. I think you should be doing things. Do your own research if you think I'm right or wrong. And if you do that, you'll be okay until they change the way the game is played. But until then, you have every opportunity to buy

and keep stacking away. Whatever these guys do, they could do. Good, bad, insignificant, I don't give a fuck. Muslim Bitcoin in the chat making a point that I was going to make but decided not to, but since he's making it, they're going to stop hardware walls from shipping to US and Canada, I bet. Would you bet against that inside of, I don't know, two know two years no you can make your own if you really wanted to so they're gonna stop like

cold card and ledger you know you don't think no no no that if they go that route they're gonna start bending bitcoin altogether now if they've been bitcoin i can see them bending that but it's not going to be one without the other it's going to be just a totality the more rational thing i think the more rational thing to do would be to let them keep shipping and just, again, create another honeypot of names and addresses they could go to for taxes and whatnot. I think there's a real chance that, again, I'll repeat what I said on Money Talks, and I said it here before too.

If someone wants to know how much you have of something, it's not because they just want to admire the total number. It's because they want to tax it and take it and make it difficult for you to use it and accrue wealth with it, et cetera, et cetera. Um, if you don't think that,

I mean, I just, I cannot imagine why, but, um, yeah, I don't know. Oh,

again, open invite Montreal. I'll be there. Carlo, Brad, if you guys are interested, it's next week, isn't it? That's two weeks, two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be, I'd be happy to talk to you. Oh, again, open invite Montreal. I'll be there. Carlo Brad, if you guys are interested, it's next week, isn't it?

That's two weeks, two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be, I'd be happy to talk to you. Um, I'll even,

I'll even know it's next week. It's not this money. Yeah. It's next week. Middle of next week. Right. Like this thing is creeping up fast, but anyways,

what else is creeping us fast is the end of the show, Joey, because we're 30 minutes in. Even after a week off, you didn't lose your touch on the transitions there the hell no zk snacks let's talk about those guys because that's the firm behind wasabi wallet and they're going to be shutting down their coin join services starting june 1st and also effective immediately as of a few days ago they're blocking all u.s citizens and residents

from visiting their website so vpn usage assume, is going to be going up. You know what? I have a VPN and I'm normally in the U.S. I should go on their website to see what it looks like. I'll do that in just a minute. But either way, at the heels of all this, it happened right after the samurai fiasco, that whole saga where they had the co-founder arrested and put in trial for offering services that helps facilitate money laundering and for those who have been following those developments bitcoin news was reporting that the

co-founder kian rodriguez hope i pronounced his right he pleaded not guilty to the charges he was also released on one million dollar bond and he was reportedly to remain in house arrest in pennsylvania until his trial so he's stuck there at home until his trial is heard so you have to just look at all the bullshit that's going on because between samurai and wasabi wasabi voluntarily shut their things down i don't blame them for what they've done especially what's just transpired with samurai but privacy usage of bitcoin obviously is a problem for some folks and like i said earlier with respect to this canada seems to be much better than the u.s maybe until a law states

that we have to start reporting all our buys both kyc and kyc free but at least canada doesn't seem to be going after the people like they are in the u.s and after seeing all this like come on like you're saying they're trying to push people into custody like etf for instance right like that seems to be what they want you to buy right like it just it makes sense easy to track easy to control easy to deal with so many things like like people out there like if you want to go balls deep into etfs i'm sure there's already a lot of people that are thinking of it and already done it. Hopefully you haven't. Do your research.

But my suggestion, if you're going to do this, pull out first. Don't go balls deep yet. Pull out. Put some lube on it. Apply this shit liberally. And then close your eyes and give it that mega thrust. Go all the way in at that point. But keep your eyes still closed, right?

Because maybe it might feel good initially, but then it seems kind of strange. Until you finally open your eyes and you realize the person you're giving it to has a sausage. And you've been sold a false bill of goods. So, as I'm trying to say is, you're going to get fucked one way or another if you do this. But I'll be standing in a corner watching this and saying, would you look at that? And I'll be sleeping good at night because I know my shit is not on the ETS. But either way, as I said, I have no more fucks left to give here. My tolerance for all this

shit is at an all-time low. Whatever happens, whatever you guys want to do, all the more power to you. But my suggestion is don't fucking go into the ETFs. Learn the art of self-custody. Do that. That's the way to do it. Like I say, between Wasabi,

Samurai, and all this shit there's fucking signposts everywhere as you say joey yeah take heed take notice do something if not well whatever just apply some more lube isn't it funny that i think a lot of people who are buying the etf are like well it'll never get confiscated it'll never get get rugged. It'll never get... That may be true. I don't know. Like Mark and Dave last week were both saying that it's guaranteed to get rugged. I'm not sure I agree. But what I am sure about is that we have an example of what happens when there's a gap, an arbitrage opportunity between the asset itself in your custody and the paper product

related to the asset. And it's gold. It's not even that hard to figure this out. You can leave the 6102 behind. Ignore that for now. When you look at the price of gold, what is it now? $2,300 and something dollars. I don't know. Let's say it's like 2,300 bucks. I got to put that on my block lock. It's $2,300. Len, I want you to go to any physical gold dealer in the Southern Ontario region and try and get an ounce of gold for $2,300 US dollars?

How do you think it's going to go? You're going to obviously not get it. You're not going to get it for $2,300. There's going to be a spread. You'll be close. It's 2%, 3% off. It'll be close. It's like 9%,

not 2% or 3%. It's fucking high because everyone in gold realizes what they got with the physical. And I think Bitcoin is going to go the same way. If I want to buy Bitcoin from you P2P, instead of buying it on some exchange that I can't custody or some ETF that I can't custody, there's going to be a premium, I think. Costco's at 2%, by the way, just a heads up.

Is it really? That's in the States, right? Only in the States? In the States. It's at about 1%. like there's real vendors out there legitimate what's the cost to ship the i have no fucking clue about so if you're going to order your detergent we order a bunch of gold bars too somehow i doubt the same guy delivers the bar and the time but okay but you get what i'm saying there's there's clearly an arbitrage um even when i worked at a pawn shop like you know i don't know how long ago it was now fuck longer than longer than i care to admit i think i was like 23 or 24 at the time uh maybe even younger 22 geez my god time is flying time flies doesn't it i know i know um anyway i still remember like we we had this rule that

there was always a bit of a haircut if people wanted to buy gold from us compared to the per ounce price. That was my first exposure to commodity pricing. How does this work? We have to look at it every day. We have to know what the price is at any given moment. We have to share that price with the customer. We have to let them know why our price is a little different, blah, blah, blah. And you start to figure this out.

You internalize it. So again, just to tie the knot on it here, tie a bow on this, for people who think it's not going to get rugged, I think the question I would have for you is like, what's your definition of rug? To me, the definition of rug is you can't ever hold it. You can't ever use it. You don't actually have the Bitcoin and people who actually will sell you Bitcoin or have Bitcoin that's actual real Bitcoin, physical Bitcoin, quote unquote, physical Bitcoin, they won't sell it to you for the price that you see on TradingView. They're just not going to do it. And I think that's already happening a little bit, right? If you go to something like BISC or RoboSats,

what's the spread compared to market? Is it higher? It varies. Yeah, obviously it's higher's higher basically depending on what the seller's willing to sell it to you at. It could be a few percent. It could be double digits. There's something to that. I think the big thing, again, we get lost in the sauce about the most extreme circumstances or scenarios that could play out. There's obviously a greater than 0% chance of all those things happening. But don't miss what's probably going to happen along the way, which is you're going to have to pay more than you're willing to, or more than you expect to for physical Bitcoin in the future.

That's a no brainer. It's happening in gold. I'm sure it happens in other commodity markets that I'm not familiar with, but it's just, to me, I can't imagine. It's so easy to hold Bitcoin right now. You buy it, you move to self custody. You'd never look at it again. You don't even have to have the wallet in the same place that you're buying the Bitcoin. You just need the addresses. You just need the Sparrow implementate. You just need whatever, right?

Whatever your sort of UI interface of choices. It's like 100% secure. And like, uh, you know, space boy Lowry says, we almost never talk with him on the show. It's 100% secure. And like Spaceboy Lowry says, we almost never talk about him on the show. It's infinitely defensible. It's a perfect self-custody asset. And still, people are like, no, I'm going to buy the ETF. Now, don't get me wrong. A friend of the show, SB, will get mad when he hears this. So I want to hedge my words here a little bit. No, speak your mind, man. Don't fuck it. This is what I think. People who are buying the ETF. A lot of them are never going to buy

spot Bitcoin anyways. They don't need it. They don't want it. They don't care. They don't get the mission. They're rolling in cash anyways. Okay. Their money's working for them already. They're boomers, their pension funds, whatever. They're not going to buy spot. Fine. I get that. Those people I'm not holding on hope for, but don't be one of these people who comes into the space. And the day that the ETF launches, Robin hood sends you a note in the app and says, the Bitcoin ETFs are live. You can buy your Bitcoin ETF here. Here's the ticker symbol for the black rock ETF. You have to do better than that. As a young person, anyone under the age of, I don't know, what's the number, Len? 50 at this point? Like should have the technical competence to be able to do this and take it seriously.

And, you know. I'm working with, I got a meeting arranged beginning of June with, I guess we would call them people above 50. And they are going to do all self-custody. Love it. So the age is just a number. If you know how to use a cell phone, fuck, you could do self-custody. It is not that hard.

If you don't want to do it, that's fine. But it's just down to sheer laziness. That's it. Because if you know how to use a computer, you know how to use a cell phone, you could do it. If you don't want to do it, that's fine. Let somebody else take care of it for you. But if something happens along the line, which may or may not happen, but the chances are much greater than zero, that something could happen. And if it does, you accept the consequences that go along with it.

If you properly self-custody, if you fucking learn how to do passphrases, several of them do. Good luck getting your Bitcoin. It's yours and the people that know the passphrases. Several of them do. Good luck getting your Bitcoin. It's yours and the people that know the passphrases. That's it. There's no fucking, they could get your keys, but without those passphrases, it's useless to get to your Bitcoin. So there's no way to fucking hack into that

without just hammering away with a bunch of computers and taking forever to do it. Just what I'm trying to say, it just doesn't make sense for anybody to do it. So yeah, fucking self-costly. I don't give a shit how old how young you are you could fucking do it the everybody i was going to say something but i'll just i'll say it in the chat put it in the discord yeah yeah not the discord it's gonna go to signal anyway so let's talk about some more signposts joey because because there's an NBC story that came out,

and federal prosecutors are looking at examining financial transactions from Block, which is the owner of Cash App and Square. And this whistleblower is alleging that there is widespread and years-long compliance lapses between Square and Cash App. And just the fact that he's doing this, I would suggest that he doesn't employ the Boeing whistleblower security services because if he does, maybe, let's not even think about that. Anyways, they're saying, this guy, he's saying there's a lack of collection of information

to assess customers risks and but what is more damning here in this claim is that they're involved with processing a fuckload of transactions involving countries that are subjected to economic sanctions and they're saying that just using this as a way to get around these sanctions and they also saying that they're processing transaction for terrorist group these are all allegations from this whistleblower and that's just looking at this so nothing yet is sticking but anyways they're saying that they're dealing with credit card transactions dollar transfers and yes even bitcoin transactions so here's another one another story i'm just

compiling a list of all the bullshit we're getting from the department of justice to justice where the fuck it is yeah just dealing with bitcoin sec we'll just talk about that in a little bit with their enforcement action or sorry their wealth notice they're handing out to robin hood guys take notice here look at all these fucking signposts again if you don't do action and fucking protect yourself it's's on you. But if you do something great, but everything is here. They're not hiding it. You can see all the bullshit that's going on.

So take action before it's too late. They're just not politically aligned with Dorsey, right? Dorsey tweeted out earlier that day, something like follow the money or something like that. Like, you know, he's right.

I know. And I think, you know, again, like red meat for the info wars crowd, you know, the day he sends out that tweet, suddenly three-letter agencies are looking to clamp down on him and there's an anonymous whistleblower. A guy who quite literally never had a run-in with regulators ever, the only time he did, he basically gave Twitter away to somebody else because he didn't want to deal with the blowback and the stress. Now you're telling me the guy is committing financial crimes? Okay. Like, are we, we're not serious about this. Are we Jack and the tie dye sheet, tie dye t-shirt, you know, like Joshua tree. Jack is the guy who's

ripping off, uh, the U S government and funding terrorism or whatever the accusations are, you know, allowing money laundering to happen on his platform. Come on. We don't really think this. No sane person believes this to be the case. Dorsey, he's got an ax to grind with the financial system. He is, don't forget the guy who tweeted out that hyperinflation is real and it's happening or it's real and it's here or something like that. How do you feel about that tweet two years later?

I think a lot of people in the government probably still hold that against them. And to suggest that there's not personal vendettas being carried out through those vehicles, I think is patently false. We've seen this happen a bunch of times. Gensler, only in the last two weeks, not even accused, but proven to have been fabricating information, trying to pin down some crypto organization or some Bitcoin adjacent organization, as far as like trying to regulate

them into oblivion. These people want Bitcoin dead and they want to make examples of anyone who feels the opposite way and has a platform and a voice. And in Jack jack's case the capital to affect change and i think that if you again you don't see that then that's on you man but to your point lenn you can either protect yourself or wait till every signpost is you know saying the cliff's edge is near and by then it's too late to turn around you're uh you're wiley coyote right micro strategy i think it's a good time to bring them up because we're getting kind of late in this segment. And yeah, they have the new decentralized identity solution.

So they are a Bitcoin development country. So solution, solution. Well, this is it. This is a solution. You know, whatever. This is good for them, I guess. And people are wondering if this is the first visible and reliable chink in sailors armor. And I would say even the vision impaired could

fucking see that is true. So according to micro strategy, these D IDs will use the Bitcoin blockchain exclusively to store and retrieve information and it will be inscribing data in the witness of transaction allowing for greater extensibility and verbosity when creating the ID documents while reducing fees and block space consumed. So if you look at this, in other words, they're going to be using the subsidized portion of the block to document those the IDs and thanks a lot for using the subsidized portion. Who the fuck asked for this

is the first question i have i i didn't fucking ask for this but i guess they think there's some value here just when we finally got over the jpegs the ruins now we have a new contender fighting for block space is these dids but some questions and you know joey feel free to answer any of them is this good for bitcoin no and its users no i agree is this good for mstr honestly i think no i like i i listen i don't know you have any more questions should i should i respond what do you want to do no i i i made some more commentary but no more questions but if you want to go on and you continue you continue and then maybe we'll finish i think we're going to take more time on this than uh

than either of us uh expected but like okay len who who's asking for this that's one of the questions who's asking for this who wants? The maxis don't want it. So all the people that this guy's been catering to with his dumb fucking AI image posting every day don't want it. The people who are like, you know, peripherally involved in Bitcoin through ETFs or a little bit of Coinbase on a Coinbase account, they don't give a fuck about this either. So they don't want it. He's claiming this is a corporate solution. I'll tell you, Len, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, no one is going to use this. None of them are going to use this because it's, quote unquote, open source.

It's not really. It's like proprietary stuff. And I think it uses the ordinals identification thing, right? That's how it works. So it's identifying certain stats. He's not using the operaturn. He's using the ordinals identification thing, right? That's how it works. So it's identifying certain stats. He's not using the opera turns. He's using the ordinals. Yeah.

Okay. So like, that's a whole other set of issues. At the end of the day, I said this on High Hash Rate, but I'll, you know, I'll say it here again. And it's something I've thought about a lot because Gandalf said this to us a little while ago that he was concerned about Saylor and the way he talks. When was the last time you heard sailor speak organically about anything i don't listen to him all that much so it's hard

for me to the answer is the answer is never he crashed he crashed and burned on marty and matt's show three years ago on esg marty torched him on how dumb esg was. And Saylor was like, no, no, no, it's good. It's good. It's good. People forget about this. He crashed and burned. Ever since then, every appearance this guy has made has been very much premeditated and not two-way. I'll give you two good examples. One is the Cedric Youngleman interview on Bitcoin Matrix. Cedric's a great interviewer.

He does tons of research on his guests, tons of research on what they're thinking and why they're thinking it. And he's done a good job interviewing people in the times I've heard him. I'd like to have him in this show, actually. Maybe I'll talk to him. He's going to be in Montreal. And I'd love to do his show as well. Saylor spoke on that program for 99% of the time, and it was like three hours, something like that. I forget now. He always does that. This is his at all. Okay, exactly. The other show, again, another guy who is very well versed, not only in economics, but also in Bitcoin technicals. Stefan Levera. Adam on in December, two hours and change. Levera barely got a word in edgewise. Stahler speaks at conferences. He goes on MSNBC. He speaks in MicroStrategy's calls. He doesn't really answer

too many investor questions on the calls, to be honest with you. The investor questions are pretty lowbrow. Most of the Wall Street journalists are dumb as fuck. So they don't understand what questions to ask and what questions matter actually to Bitcoin and the network and the asset. My base case with Saylor now is that this guy has an agenda and he uses any platform he can to push it. He's garnered all this publicity and fame and everyone's dying to have him on their show, even if it means that he gets to say whatever he wants unchallenged every time. And that's how the interviews go. This guy is very much operating at a different plane of awareness than the rest of us when it comes to what he's saying. We view it in a lot

of ways as organic. He did a podcast, blah, blah, blah. No. This is like stump speech stuff, pushing a narrative that he thinks is good for his bags, period, end of story. This is, to your point, the first time we're really seeing him exposed a little bit. He can't help himself. He has to put this out there. I don't understand why, in a moment where all these other things are collapsing around Bitcoin, the privacy tools, the KYC, government regulation, mining enforcement, all these different reporting burdens that these guys have to endure, this is when he decides- Timing is an aspect. that these guys have to endure this is when he decides timing this aspect it stinks to high hell is what it does it stinks to high hell anyone who trusts mike at this point i i don't know why you

i don't know why you trust them did you listen to him on patrick beck david show about 11 months ago i did and in that episode and that's probably the last time i heard michael saylor like in a i didn't listen to his lavera talk yeah yeah in a public setting i don't don't listen to his too many podcasts actually these days but i listen to pbd but anyways 11 months ago he was on that show and he mentioned and i posted a video of that clip of it he said he was talking about there's value in storing stuff on bitcoin data on bitcoin so he's mentioned this almost a year ago. Here it is that is coming to fruition. He was he was basically asking them, people on the show, what's the value of storing

a will on Bitcoin? What if it's a will that is moving a billion dollars from one person to another? What would you perceive to be the value of it would be $20? The guy answered? Yes. Would you do it for $100? Absolutely. If you're moving a billion dollars, you'd pay a fuckload of money to have that done. So clearly he's trying to make a point at that particular moment that there is something more

to Bitcoin than just using it as money. He sees that for storing some type of data, and here it is. These DIDs is something that at least MicroSt strategy wants to monetize and use bitcoin to do that so i just wanted to lay it out there this wasn't it came out of left field there's evidence to show that he does like this type of stuff and it's over it less than a year ago he said this which is weird because two years ago or three years ago he's he was very

clear that he wanted to ossify the protocol, right? The thing was supposed to be store value only. Now he has this opinion on IDs and wills and other stuff. He can't imagine it ever being used as a means of exchange. Completely out of the question, according to Mr. Saylor. But wills and digital IDs and other other stuff that's the use case that's why you bought one percent of the circulating supply to put fucking wills on it it doesn't add up it doesn't add up and there's other ways if he really wanted to accrue value to the chain you know he could do it other ways i

think whether they're ethical or sensical or you know appeal to the maximalist crowd, totally different stories. But there's better ways to do what he's trying to do, presumably pump his bag, better ways to do it than this. I don't get it. And I cannot stop thinking about how obvious it is in retrospect that this guy never hears the other side of the argument for his own points. He never hears it. He's got people chanting his fucking name in Madeira. He's inviting people to his yacht for barbecues. He's got all the big names wrapped around his finger. Brunel, Lavera. No one's ever going to say no to having him on. He's speaking later this year in a prominent setting. He's speaking at Bitcoin Magazine's conference, of course.

But I mean, that's not the only conference. Don't think for a second, like the Canadian conference tried to get him last year, couldn't. Sure as shit, they tried to get him again this year. They couldn't. So everyone wants to talk to this guy, not just Bailey and the boys, everybody. My question for everybody is- I don't want to talk to him anymore. Neither do I.

But my question for everybody is, why not ask the talk why not well neither do i but my question for everybody is why not ask the guy like why not be adversarial you have a role in content to be adversarial right someone tells you something you say what about this someone says something about a point you say well a year ago you said that what changed you don't have to fight with them but find out the thinking odell tried this with the open source development thing. Whether you agree or disagree, it's a good thing that he's telling people not to contribute to open source developers. Different story. We never heard from the guy.

Are you telling me all this stuff coming down, the clamps, the open source stuff? He decides that his public appearance is going to be at Bitcoin for businesses or corporations, and this is the thing that he launches. It just doesn't add up. Now, I will leave the door open on I'm a Neanderthal and just don't get it. He's operating on a different dimension. He's playing a 4D chess, whatever your meme of choice is. But Len, I don't know. I haven't heard anyone say anywhere that this is a good idea. Who's supportive of this? Even MSTR Bulls. I got to get SB on here for MSTR and coin earnings, I think in a couple weeks. Yeah, I'd love to talk to him about this. This is going to come up in their investor call and some brain dead peon from Wall Street Journal or Bloomberg is going to ask him,

what is it? He's going to be able again to roll downhill and give everything he wants uh people to know and no one's going to challenge him anything because they're you know i was gonna say they're stupid they probably are but really that's not the format for it but still like regardless clearly there's a problem here we agree on that sure the problem is that these type of projects could exist. I think that is the ultimate problem here. I don't care how much Bitcoin he has. To me, it does not matter. I don't care whatever project you're working on. Again, to me, it doesn't matter.

But it just goes to show you that there is some loophole within the existing protocol. I don't know how it is we got to get rid of it, but there's going to be more of this shit going forward. I don't want to see more garbage thrown on Bitcoin. I don't want to see more of these transactions that are subsidized that are just being used when we're fucking paying for it. Thankfully, I'm doing what I can with my node, but that's all I could do.

I wish there was more that we could do because this garbage, we got to just fucking get rid of it. It just keeps getting recycled. And I don't know what is the answer here, but I'd love to just to seek out something to fucking finally get rid of it and fix it up for once and for all. This single crash and burn is my prediction. Well,

this particular project, but the same way ordinals did the same way runes did like, what, what is the fee rate right now? The fee market, it's gotta to be low again 10 15 20 you know what i mean like like it like it like these people don't have the money or the attention span to keep any of these things going and like so i'm not that worried but that's

a separate issue than sailor sailor i think has the again like the influence in the capital to become a problem for the network. Again, like I said, if the United States government, which is the biggest entity in this fucking world, if they decide to say, you know what? We're done with Bitcoin.

Mining, on ramps, using Bitcoin. Fucking stop it. It doesn't change anything. Bitcoin miners will still do their thing. Bitcoin nodes will still be operating. And Bitcoin transactions and people holding bitcoin will still fucking transpire yeah so there's nothing not even the biggest entity in this world could stop so i don't give a shit what the fuck sailor does or says it's meaningless yeah i

disagree i disagree the his influence is too great there's not many people like you and there's many more people who are coming into the space will never make it to the level of conviction you have and he will be able to influence them relatively easily. It won't even take that much because everyone wants their bags to go up. They will have seen the wealth that people like you and me and people who got in before us accrued. And they will say, this is my ticket to, no, I know. But like by then, let's say, you know, 10 years go by, they will say, look, this is

my chance to have the bag. Appreciate a hundred X. I got to follow this guy. I'm going to support him. I'm going to be a voice for him. It's, it's easy to influence people like that. And again, like I saw, I think sometimes we're guilty of being in an echo chamber because you and me view 99% of things the same way. And we are the people who are hardened by

a couple of really rough bull and bear cycles. People coming in now, what's their christening? Where's the fire at their baptism? There is none. And they are just here for number go up, and they'll get it any way they can, including… Everybody that's coming into the space. …the network that Saylor pushes. Everybody's the same way. They come in for number go up, but the stakes are higher now.

When you and I first bonded in 2017, the landscape was different. The economy was much stronger. It was not teetering at the same way it is higher now. When you and I first bought in 2017, the landscape was different. The economy was much stronger. It was not teetering at the same way it is right now. The monetary system isn't as weak as it is right now. So there's a lot of different things. Like if you look at it, it's just a different game. And every day that passes,

it gets worse and worse and worse. So everybody that's coming in, they're looking for an alternative. They're looking for taking away. Right now, the money is controlled by a select few. And this is essentially modernizing the monetary system and taking back that control and collectively distributing it. That's the way it is. And so I think people are going to be looking at it along those lines, not simply

number go up. Eventually, it's going to be like people coming in, it's I'm looking for something different. I'm not looking for fucking number go up, I'm looking to be like people coming in it's i'm looking for something different i'm not looking for fucking number go up i'm looking to secure my value to make sure that doesn't get debased because of somebody's decisions it's possible yeah yeah i'm not saying anyway whatever we can just end it there we're done with the bitcoin stories but yeah no no there's one more we still have to sure okay okay i just look i looked at the hour and figured we were done but that's fine no we still haven't talked about this it's the robin hood wells notice and i'll be quick because there's not much information i have about this is because their crypto armed division they received a wells notice this morning and this means that some sort of enforcement action maybe

a lawsuit is coming up against robin hood what did they say what's going to happen i don't fucking know but you were hinting at it earlier when you go to the powers that be and you ask them for guidance you ask them for advice they don't give you an answer and then eventually you get served with one of these wells notices same thing as looking what's going on with robin hood but the reality is even though you're going to these people and trying to get answers and they're not giving it to you, you could fucking look in the mirror and figure what the fuck is wrong. If you're dealing with shit like staking, if you're dealing with shit that smells like a security, well, you know, like you're just asking for problems. If you were simply just buying and selling Bitcoin, I don't think you'd have any problems with these people but if they want to go outside that and deal with these sketchy digital assets where where the fuck the yield is coming

from i don't have a clue well here you are enjoy the wells notice and whatever comes along with it yeah i'm i'm 30 sympathetic to the guys at robin hood v. Vlad obviously has had a rough go. He took a lot of shit during the GameStop thing, you'll remember, for turning off the buy button and only enabling sales on stuff like GameStop and Tootsie Rolls or wherever else was on the meme stock list for WallStreetBets there. He took a lot of shit for that, but the SEC and other government agencies for sure leaned on him to restrict buys. He didn't just wake up one morning and say, I got to restrict the buys here. I can't allow people to get rich off this.

Someone told him to do it. He did that favor for these guys back then, saved probably a lot of people, a lot of billions, and a lot of reputational points points and probably kept some bucket shops open. And now after asking for guidance, and he's not the only one, by the way, like Coinbase, again, I'm somewhat sympathetic to Armstrong, even though I disagree with them on the Bitcoin versus Ethereum guidance. He's asked for guidance over the years. They don't seem to get it. Paul Grewal, who's the attorney at Coinbase is very publicly saying like we're asking for meetings with these guys even if we get an answer we don't like at least they could fucking meet us they

won't do it uh i suspect robin hood who's a much smaller player experiencing similar issues again i would file this under chilling effect more than anything else um you'll notice that you know the sec just won't do this with coinbase, even though Coinbase has ostensibly all the same things. I don't think they're there for anything that Coinbase doesn't trade on its platform. Coinbase is the place where all this garbage launches, right? It's like the larva nest of bullshit tokens. And I just think that anyone who's thinking this is anything but chilling effect is,

you know, these laws are intentionally vague, by the way, the Howey test. It's not really that good. It's literally 100 years old at this point or close. We're really going to use this to decide what's security and what's not. And I don't hold any of this stuff. Obviously, I know you don't. It's just that we are trying, I say we, the US is trying to shoehorn new things that people find value in into 100-year-old legislation. When the most advanced piece of technology was a calculator, it's not going to work. There has to be a change. But there can't be because when you change something like that, the inertia to do it is impossible to manifest anyways. But if you were to change something as old as the Howey test and change the rules for

securities laws, you would just have the floodgates open and everything would become completely unruly. There's some people who would say, and I think I might be one of them, that would say that just because you have a hard time governing doesn't mean that you should govern improperly as a solution. And I think that's where we are, right? You're kind of at the precipice here in a lot of ways. AI, investing, currencies, war, these things, they're different now than they were 10 years ago. All of them, materially so. And the change is accelerating. The idea that you can keep regulating and keep governing in the way you have for, at this point in the States, what, 250 years, 225 years? It's just not quite plainly.

It's a dumb thing to think. And it seems like everyone just refuses to think any other way over there. I like what Norwell tacos said in the chat i hope he makes bank i won't be repeating that anyway yeah oh yeah i think that's it joy i think i think that's it for the bitcoin related stuff sure sure yeah i'll switch over uh you know what the drill is if you're on audio we'll see you tomorrow. If you're on video, hang tight. Like the video, all that stuff. Share it with your friends, your mechanic, your priest.

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