The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #165 (Bitcoin News Stories) - The Rules of Engagement in the US, The Orange Candidate, Canadian Economic Data

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Trump the bitcoin candidate -ETH ETF -What's Next for US Policy? -Why the clear pivot? and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. 70 000 great day today um and the other panel is my co-host and friend len buddy what's going on how the heck are you good to see you yeah all good man all good just you know it is what it is uh you got rained on i got rained on everybody got rained on i just can't believe that it was the disparity between what you experienced what we had over here it rained but not like months wow that was wild i won't i won't say

on the air where i went today but um yeah the drive there brutal drive back also not great so uh yeah but it doesn't matter it was worth the trip i have to say i was happy with uh making the trip an hour away so we'll talk about that another time maybe you and i offline or with our buddy there so yeah len um last week we do the housekeeping first here then we'll get to the sponsors last week um had brent and mark from the two stewards podcast in studio uh two very nice guys my wife is always thrilled when she meets uh nice you know what she calls normal bitcoiners she was very happy to meet uh normal bitcoiners and uh mark and brent she didn't say that when i was introduced to her she she sure is she sure she sure she didn't say to montreal she probably thinks you're

fucking weird too i don't know but uh no she i mean she thinks everyone's nice it's just um you know having someone come to your house uh is a bit of a different experience i've had we know obviously we've done it a handful of times now for the show. She knows Dee well. She met Mark finally in Montreal. And now these guys. Awesome, awesome podcast. I listened back to it today. My apologies, everybody, for not putting it up last week. It totally set my mind.

I've been so busy. But it's up today. I really enjoyed it. I didn't realize it was almost an hour and a half. It was a long episode. And we talked about a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff about faith and community and bitcoin obviously and uh some stuff about kids and parenting is a really wide-ranging episode

that we don't often get to do because as much as we like to pretend otherwise bitcoiners oftentimes are very focused on one thing you know economics and bitcoin and whatnot but uh these two guys a wide range of interests and a wide range of interests and a wide range of experiences. And I told them, Len, people often comment on the candor and rapport that you and I share on the show. And I said to those two guys, two things that keep me coming back to good stewards or two stewards, I should say. One is that they actually have microphones. I can't listen to a podcast if there's shitty mics. And the other is they have good rapport, the two of those guys. It's clear that they're on the same page.

They're friends. And it shows in the audio. So I hope you enjoy the episode we did with them. And I recommend you guys will listen to that show as well. You listen to Two Stewards regularly, Len? Are you a regular listener to that show? I think you were a semi-regular listener. Yeah.

To be perfectly honest, I haven't listened to very many shows at all across the board. You name a podcast, i probably have not listened to it in the past little while and i um i feel cleansed as a result this is good it's good for your mental health i do i find that more and more taking the headphones that are just switching back to uh the hardest possible edm music anyway before we talk about what's going on this week and get into the show the sponsors easy dns i mean what what i don't know what else to say about easy dns like i try and do the reads every week. I try and keep it fresh and friendly and fun, but you don't get companies like EasyDNS

often. A couple of reasons. One, Mark is a Bitcoiner. I've been a Bitcoiner for a long time, longer than some of you guys in the chat have been alive probably. Maybe not quite that long, but pretty long. He's an easy easy easy guy to work with both on the podcast side and also on the actual business dns registrar side uh if you want to buy a domain you want to bring a domain over mark has got you he'll take care of you you want to do some virtual private server stuff use the vps suite there you can do bitcoin nodes nostril relays btc pay servers uh among other things you guys are doing all kinds of stuff over there, I understand. So I'm happy to see that.

Although I haven't seen a lot of the websites, a lot of the finished products yet. I understand that you guys are using Mark's services, which we love to see. If you're thinking about hopping over and you're like, man, I got kind of a crappy registrar, DNS provider. I know the two stewards guys use GoDaddy. So I said, you got to go over to Mark. There has no excuse for using GoDaddy in this day and age. Go over to usdns.com, CBP Media is the coder. Tell Mark we sent you and you get 50% off your first round of buys. You can't beat that. And these days, Len, everyone should have, I think, a place to put content they like and

store it in a semi-permanent way. And I don't know if you saw it today, archive.is under DDoS attack. So someone trying to clear the history of the internet in some regard, at least, I don't know to what degree exactly, but keeping stuff that you find valuable and hosting it in a place that's not going to have it taken down is more important than ever. That's the place to go, man. What can I say? You know, there's not much else to add to that. Who's the second sponsor? Not GoDaddy. It's Bull Bitcoin.

Bull Bitcoin is a great place to buy and sell your Bitcoin. Joey was mentioning the price was around $70,000. It's been hovering around here for some time, so it may be a good opportunity to sell if you want, but maybe a good opportunity to buy if you want. Either way, you have both options available to you. they give you the option also to buy on chain and you can also use lightning but you know what the fees right now at least i checked earlier today dirt cheap it was single digits sats per v byte so i'm not sure why anybody would want to buy

through lightning just yet but maybe it's your jam that's fine but personally i would suggest just buy through on chain for at least for the time being and that way you're covered and you can oh my god len the sats per byte oh my god what is it now basement nine sats per v by high priority yeah it was eight earlier so it's just dirt cheap so i mean personally if i'm gonna buy i'd buy on chain right now and then consolidate my utx so shortly thereafter it's just dirt cheap so i mean personally if i'm gonna buy i'd buy on chain right now and then consolidate my utx so shortly thereafter it's cheap to do so but do your own research whatever works for you either way bull bitcoin has you covered but they also give you some other good options available for example if you want to pay your bills you know every month we get these bills

we get the electricity bill we get our mortgage bill all this shit we got to pay but you could use your bitcoin look at the price of bitcoins up to seventy thousand dollars right now good time to start spending it so through bull bitcoin you could start paying your bills with your bitcoin and you know it's not too bad and you could also if price is high which it is right now seventy thousand you could buy gift cards with your with your bitcoin and bull bitcoin facilitates that purchase for you and you go ahead and start buying stuff in the real world it's indirectly you're using your bitcoin to buy this stuff but this is the only options we have right now it works really well check it out and if you do

open an account and fund your account use our referral code of course you'll get 21 dollars added to your account no questions asked dude i want to see people in this chat this show i don't know i don't know how we do this i would love to run like a raffle a contest or something to your account. No questions asked. Dude, I want to see people in this chat, this show. I don't know. I don't know how we do this. I would love to run like a raffle, a contest or something. And the entry would have to be, you give Bitcoin that you bought on bull through on an open dime as a wedding gift. I've done this a few times in the past. I was saying to Dee last year that it was like wedding season. I wanted to get a bunch of open dimes. I gave a few of them away for birthdays and weddings. I think it's a great gift. It's like super cypherpunk to give one of those things away. And if you want to do that, bull Bitcoin is a good

way to do it, right? Cheap fees, everything's coin joined out, like extra, extra, extra privacy. Plus obviously the open dime is basically impossible to trace. You got to love that. I think it's a good timeline to start giving these things away, right? People have Bitcoin on the mind, even if they don't have any you could you could be the thing that pushes them over the edge you know they're part of their holy matrimony an open dime from you and uh bull bitcoin i think it'd be good idea have you done that have you given bitcoin as a wedding gift no no i haven't gone to a wedding for sorry i guess yeah you and me are not in the same demo yeah yeah i just went through like five years of nothing but weddings i remember those days finally so yeah no no i'm done with that for least for now

i haven't given out bitcoin as a gift i've donated bitcoin sure but never given it out to somebody just like here you go well maybe i have i don't know but more so donations that's the stuff that comes to mind right Anyways, yeah. You know what? I just want to say we have Ronnie coming in this Wednesday. Yeah, the guest for the show, right? Okay. Yeah, so he is the relocation specialist.

He has set up a store. He's a co-founder of a store. It's the Bitcoin hardware store in El Salvador. That's in El Zante. And so he has firsthand experience with using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange. So I look forward to chatting with him about how the adoption of Bitcoin is going over there

and along with a few other things. And so it's always good to chat with another Salvadorian. We've had Jaime on the show several times and he's always welcome back to come on the show as well. But it's going to be good to chat with Ronnie. I think this has been a long time coming and I

look forward to this chat yeah I'm looking forward to it as well we have um we've done so well with guests over the years I think you know I hear all the time I'm sure you do too that people who come on the show oftentimes they're you know even if they're relative unknowns all the people who listen to CBP are like man you know I I want follow this guy. I want to see what he's doing. These guys are up to something that's interesting to me and helping with Bitcoin adoption, helping with spreading the word. That's all we're trying to do. If you guys have ideas for guests, shoot them our way.

I realized this summertime, and actually Len and I were talking today about how we still have a Madex episode in the tank and a D episode, a conference wrap-up in the tank too. We're trying to accumulate somewhat evergreen content, but it doesn't mean we're not still booking guests. And actually, um, I have a few guests we have to talk to you over the next week or so and try and get on the calendar for the summer. But if you guys have ideas, you know, shoot them our way.

We're always, uh, we're always listening. And actually our unofficial, uh, booking agent Boomer has, uh, done us a great service over the years, landing us tons of guests. So if you want to become a 2024 Boomer, then, you know, you know what to do. Anyway, Torup is saying we should get Maulers on the show. Maybe. I don't know. I'm with you. I love it.

I just don't care. You're not the guy that does the the impression it's our friend i don't want to just say in case it's gonna brandon brandon okay i don't want to say just in case yeah but man i always laugh when i hear his impression of him it's funny stuff but uh anyways i got a couple of boosts only Only two boosts of note this week that I wanted to rhyme off. Some user sent in 100 stats saying, great show. Your podcast always makes you laugh. But he doesn't have a name. It's just some generic name.

Show yourself, Anon. Show yourself. Yeah. Like, I'll be happy to give you, you know, say your name. And you can even make up something. But anyways. Appreciate the kind words all the same, though. Yeah. Thank and doug and roop 1025 sats and he writes exciting news about joey's biking adventure when cbp whistler bike park special i'll fix punctures

i guess he's out there scary news about the uk taking assets before any changes very good reason to have good systems in place and maybe a second passport. And, you know, there's a couple of UK stories I'm going to be talking about today because it seems like there's a lot of acceleration going on. Oh, Scott's here. I have to control.

Yeah, and I have nothing to do with Rishi's latest, I don't know. What, the service thing? The service thing the service thing yeah yeah so i mean we should we'll talk we're gonna we're gonna talk about that whether you talk about it yeah i'll be bringing it up i have something to say about that well but that's it i mean that's all i have to talk about if anything else you want to to go off and this is your chance we're good man let's uh let's hit the ground running here what do we got first well right away we'll talk about i guess the biggest news this past week and i can't wait to hear your thoughts on this because i'll be honest i don't mine are just pretty neutral at

this particular moment it's uh donald j trump and right this is the the biggest thing that happened this past week right with respect to bitcoin and let's recap what we do know at this particular moment so the executives a couple of them uh bitcoin magazine have been talking uh for a while that they have provided or have been providing some advice to the trump team with respect to bitcoin and i like that hatchery um is that the one that you were talking about the newer one that has it's not the one with the rope it's not the one with the rope i won't tell you who got me this because it you know it'll incriminate them a little bit i don't think anyone wants to actually know that they that someone has a trump hat this one has a trump right across the back too i should wear this

running the stairs here in hamilton i'm sure i'd get some looks there was a guy running the stairs years ago wearing a build the wall shirt it was great anyway who build the wall what says no build the wall build the wall okay that's pretty funny but anyways so yeah the magazine folks were at least they were saying that they were providing him with some advice and it's they've been doing so and they're talking about it at least for the past weeks, if not longer, I'll be honest. I don't follow them,

but it does show up in my timeline every so often. So either way, well, what we learned is that there's two interesting things this past week. Now, first is this one didn't get a heck of a lot of traction in comparison to the other story is that the trump campaign is now accepting what they call quote-unquote crypto yeah and if you go on the website you

could actually select what method of payment you want you could uh pay directly with your coinbase your coinbase wallet metamask whole bunch of other things people were saying that you can't pay in bitcoin uh with the coinbase stuff, because the Coinbase marketplace is preventing you from that. But when I took a look, there are other options, because you could also use Ledger, Trust Wallet, I believe is the there's Bitcoin, you could use Bitcoin in that as well. I'm not 100% sure, but certainly Ledger you can. So it just unfortunately, you have to somehow connect it to your browser. And through there, it's going to be able to make the payment. But yeah, you can make a payment to his campaign in Bitcoin and shit coins as well.

So I think that was not correct. So they are accepting Bitcoin. That's the first thing. Well, the second announcement was much, much bigger in nature. And it wasn't really an announcement. It's just, I guess, him coming to a realization or maybe pandering a group of folks. Either way, whatever it is, he's saying that he supports the right to self-custody of Bitcoin. And he also mentions that he's not a fan or at least he's not going to go ahead with a CBDC while he's in power.

And the future of Bitcoin will be made in the united states he's not going to try to push this so what do you say about what do you say about liz's goons do you have that quote and he's going to keep elizabeth warren away from elizabeth warren and her goons away and her bitcoin yeah and finally he also vowed he's going to free ross so that's basically it in a nutshell and i'll leave it at that i mean i want to hear your thoughts more than anything because i'll just preface like there's been a lot of other people that are running that have made these types of for sure now right and is he cut from the same cloth or not maybe maybe not but at least you know we have a history here to draw upon and um yeah i want to hear your thoughts on this because i think you know you

probably are more favorable than i am i'm i think i'm more neutral if anything but let's hear your thoughts i'm pretty neutral on trump the politician now the trump the man i think is absolutely hilarious you know has riz like almost no one else on the planet. And the only people who don't think he does are these sort of annoying, whiny, pillow-screaming losers. That's the way I feel. You don't have to agree with that. You may say that he's a Russian asset, whatever.

I mean, if you still think that at this point, there's not really much we can discuss, right? You know, we're just not operating in the same plane of reality. That's number one. That's sort of the preface, I should say. As far as the announcement about the Bitcoin crypto self-custody stuff, I really liked the language he used. And I think, you know, you pointed out that Bitcoin Magazine has been working with this campaign by the sounds of it. Bailey obviously tweeting about this almost every day at this point. And in the lead up to the Libertarian National Convention, he was talking a lot about how the Trump speech was going to be important, blah, blah, blah.

He was right. The language in the speech was pretty critical. The separation between Bitcoin and crypto, I thought was important in the speech. Although his campaign messaging as far as donations doesn't make a distinction, the speech writing, I think, is probably a little more finely tuned, which tells me that someone in his inner circle is at least reviewing the speech for these little nuances, which I like. The self-custody thing is really key. That's obviously something we've been talking about a lot on this show for the last year. A major topic, right? Do

you have the right to custody your coins if you buy them spot? And you obviously feel very strongly that the ETF is actually sort of an attack on self-custody alongside, I would guess, I'm kind of putting words in your mouth, but alongside these other attacks on custody, you have to declare all your buys and declare all your wallet addresses and pay taxes on your unrealized gains, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know all this stuff. I really like that. The free Roth thing is important too, because I think that without the free Roth thing, everything else is kind of, it can be nebulous. Legislation around self-custody can be nebulous. Legislation around whether or not the government can quote unquote, or Warren and her goons can attack your self-custody or attack Bitcoin or grow Bitcoin as an asset on

US shores. These things are nebulous. There's nothing hard and fast there. Saying you're going to free Ulbricht on day one is measurable in a real easy sense. Either he's out or he's not out on day one. And you can make your judgment about Trump based on that. The more important thing to me, Len, is that clearly here, and it's in the title. I know we're going to talk about how the White House feels about this. Maybe we can talk about that next, since I think these dovetail nicely. Bitcoin and crypto, I don't often say that it's important that these things are aligned, but it's important we are aligned here in the candidates that we support. You and I are Canadian. We're not voting, but we have a lot of American listeners and we have a lot of American friends,

at least according to Spotify. So I would say that it's important that we are aligned here in terms of who the candidate we choose is. One candidate is clearly less favorable toward crypto and Bitcoin than the other at this point. There is no doubt about that. We will talk about exactly how much less favorable when we get there, hopefully, like I said, in the next story. But for now, if you had told me, Len, a year ago that this would be the thing that Trump brought up at the Libertarian Convention, I would have said, no way. Libertarian is a small percentage of the vote. Usually they get between three and 5% of the total vote. That's still pretty significant that he knows he's going to be

on every major platform. He knows guys like Tim Pool, Dave Smith have global reach. These guys are on Rogan. They're on Tucker. They're on Patrick Bet-David. They're everywhere. These are the people who speak to the libertarian movement and the conservative movement. For him to come out and say that right up front, make no bones about it, talk about CBDCs, talk about self-custody, talk about Albrecht, he is clearly catering to, as Mark Jethic would call it, he's catering to the crypto capitalist. This is what we want to see. We've become a voting bloc in a way that I don't think any of us could have imagined. I would also suggest to you that being between 3% and 5% or whatever the... Actually, I shouldn't say that. I think the number that Coinbase gives out is 50 million Americans have a Bitcoin wallet or a Coinbase account or whatever. 50 million is a lot, but I think, Len, there's a realization here by the

sitting government and the conservatives who are trying to take the White House that there's a lot of capital that's about to get way bigger as a piece of the pie over the next 10 years. And you need to have these people on your side because if you don't, they will make your life incredibly difficult, not only by not voting for you and funding your opponents, but also by leaving and making other governments, El Salvador, great example, look better by comparison. And there's all these things together tell me that there's been a clear shift in the thinking around Bitcoin and Bitcoin holders and crypto holders too, if I'm being honest. Honestly, Len, I think four weeks. I think the last four weeks have been insane. Do you want to talk about the White House a bit first? Maybe we can dovetail into the White think four weeks i think i think the last four weeks have been insane you know if i if i look at

do you want to talk about the white house a bit first maybe we can dovetail into like the white house and what they think about bitcoin and crypto and the way they changed or i can do what i want okay you were talking a few things so uh i want to just state right away with the rosting i have no idea what's going on and i, the thing is we shouldn't trust. We have to verify and it's impossible to verify. The only people that really know what's happened there is him, Ross. Yeah.

And maybe the people that were investigating. I think, I think honestly, it's just him. I don't even think if that's the case, then I, it's hard for me to say for certain, certain that he's in the right or he's in the

wrong or justice in the right justice is in the right or justice isn't wrong is i don't know i can't verify anything so to me for that i understand there's a lot of people that are supporting him and he's kind of been made a martyr in this whole situation here for sure yeah but without me knowing all the details with all the the information, it's hard for me. It's impossible for me to make an accurate and concise decision on what's the best way to move forward with that. I'll say that. So you can call me a seller. You can call me whatever you want.

But I just don't know. That's the reality. I like to have knowledge before I can do anything. Anyways, ETFs, I just want to say quickly, I don't think it's really an attack on Bitcoin. It's just not Bitcoin. It's just f quickly, I don't think it's really an attack on Bitcoin. It's just not Bitcoin. It's just, it's fiat. I don't think it's an attack. I think it's, there's like a clear, I think, move to make anything that's not self-custody

easier and anything that is self-custody harder. Is that fair to say? If I look across the landscape here, the States, Europe, it looks to me like that's what's happening. We've talked about this before. I mean mean i think we agree on that maybe uh it's hard for me because the reason being the reason it's it's a permission permissionless network right one could join leave rejoin whatever they want this is the reality of it and it's easy to do even if somebody puts a barrier you can still do it yeah i'm looking at stuff like uh there's a peer-to-peer sharing of files that came after napster i forget the name

torrence torrence torrence that's it yeah if they can't stop that they're not going to be able to stop this i'm with you it's just a matter of how hard they make it i don't i don't want to do i don't want to dwell on the etfs intact on bitcoin the. The reason I'm not, I'm just trying to talk about just the ease of use. It all ties into this whole argument here. So the fact that you could have a political candidate and even next president, potential next president of the United States that's either pro-Bitcoin or the current president that may be appearing to be against Bitcoin, it doesn't matter. Like I say, it's a permissionless network.

If they can't stop those torrents they can't stop this this thing it's it's left the barn and that's it they could close the door but that fucking horse is just gonna keep on running and that's too bad another thing that's interesting from all this it looks like because now this it was inevitable this was going to become a political issue right i didn't think this soon though you thought did you think this soon no not this soon but it was inevitable right like it's interesting that it's happening now but it seems now there's a line in the sand that there is between the left wing and the right wing which is now going to be uh looking at bitcoin and the pro bitcoin versus the other side which is not and it's too bad because it's probably going to carry over for next election and every election thereafter,

because you know, you tend not to flip flop that much. So it's too bad. It is what it is, but whatever, we'll just deal with it as it comes. The, the CBDC stuff.

I curious, does this change the fact that Donald Trump has said that he's not going to go ahead with a CBDC under his watch? Does this change your timeframe with how a C or when a CBC- Canada is going to have one in less than five years. Bill S-210 debated today. It's going to pass. It's forced online digital identification, verification.

Once you have that digital ID, anything is possible. But that's never been my argument. I know, but I think that CBDC is coming here in less than five years. Over there, I don't know. And by the way, it's easy for Trump to say that. I'm pretty sure Congress has voted against the CBDC too. So it's not like he's the champion of that move. He may have influenced that vote.

But I think it speaks more broadly to this idea that the White House, on this air, less than a month ago, and many times in the last three years, we said the White House hates Bitcoin. They hate mining. They hate all this stuff. Now, clearly, the White House is leaning on Gensler to approve Ethereum ETFs. Someone just stepped down from the CFTC over difficult working conditions, sexual harassment, all sorts of allegations, gone. Liz Warren is nowhere to be found on any of this Ethereum ETF stuff. And it's clear that the political waves are coming in favor of Bitcoin, Ethereum, all

crypto. All of a sudden, it's happening. And to me, it's almost inexplicable. We understand the value of these things. Whether I agree or disagree that each should have an ETF is irrelevant. What I see is suddenly the people who hated you in public three weeks ago are now your best friend when it comes to legislation. Suddenly the people who wanted to control money through cbdc three weeks ago all voted against it like i i don't know what i don't know what happened here except that they changed their mind now that the cynic no no there's nothing people they have exposure to certain things and they want to

ensure that their bags get pumped well i think that's part of it but i also think that they realize that these things are not going away they can't stop it like you Like you said, you're right about that. I think the other thing is that they realize these things are going to be worth a lot more over the next decade, and you need to align with these people. The same way in years past, you needed to align with Silicon Valley. And before that, you needed to align with energy or pharma or whatever, because that's where the money was. The money is with us now. I think that's fair to say. Pretty soon, you're going to need Brian Armstrong to be at your fundraising dinners. You're going to need David Bailey to be at your fundraising dinners. You're going to need whoever, like whatever,

ex-Bitcoiner to be at your fundraising dinners. And over here, you're going to start to see that shift too, because that's where the money is. And the only way you can prevent that from happening is to crush the value of Bitcoin. If the US isn't going to do it, then the value is not going to be crushed anywhere. How could you crush it? That's what I mean. Well, our government is trying, I think, directly or indirectly with stuff like making you declare your buys, talking about capital gains inclusions going up. That destroys at least a little bit the value. No.

Yes. That just tries to make it operate within the system they want. Whatever. That's why. Len, I think that's Puritan talk. I'll be honest with you. Go ahead. This is what happens.

When people can't sell at the value that the thing is actually worth on the ticker, it destroys the value prop in their head. There's more than just KYC Bitcoin. I know that. You know that. I know, but there's no... This is what I was going to mention next. I know, but people who have tons of Bitcoin, there's a couple of subsets. We shouldn't go down this road again because we'll be here all night.

The point is that the capital is with these people now. It's with our demo, right? It's with our sort of way of thinking. The thing I think that I'm going to have to start to tango with and you're going to have to start to tango with is you're going to find yourself in bed with guys from Ethereum when it comes to voting and guys from other, and I don't, I don't really have a problem with it, honestly. Like I think that the, I'm there, it's like, it's like they're more aligned with me than almost any other political group is.

And so why shouldn't I, you know, I can, I can find common ground with those guys when it comes to ballots. What, what we do on the network is a story all our own and they can do whatever they want on their network. But I think when it comes to voting for politicians who will protect your network, there's some common ground there, certainly in the States. I just think this is a crazy story and we're not ready for it because there's been this wedge driven in between Bitcoin and everyone else. Some of it done by Bitcoin or some of it done by other networks. And now you're looking across the dance floor there, and the next person you dance with, you hated 10 minutes ago.

And now it's like you're all wearing the same jersey, at least a little bit, right? Like you say, it's for friends and enemies. That's what people want to buy. Yeah, fucking right it is, man. Fucking right it is. It does, in the end right now it at least the way things are laid out right now things may change in the future it really this is all just political theater it doesn't matter it doesn't matter whatever they say doesn't matter whatever

they do like i said the barn door is open and that horse has left and there's nothing they can't crush the price if they try to do something to crush their price, they'll just make it even more scarce. You're going to want my Bitcoin. You're going to want my KYC free Bitcoin. There's going to be a heck of a price to get that from my hands. And the price is going to go even higher. This is done. It's just it's inevitable.

It's a matter of when, not if. So that's why when I look at this, when I said initially I'm neutral, because it doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter what anybody says as long as we have people working on it people coding people developing on it people willing to run nodes people willing to mine people willing to exchange with it uses a medium exchange that's it and all four of those the boxes are continually being checked and that's it and you can't stop you want to stop me from running a node fuck it's impossible it's and i don't i don't even want to explain how it's impossible but it just is impossible to do so because i don't want to get into the technicals

of that and same thing with mining fuck i mean it it's just it's impossible to stop this so the thing is just going to run. And that's wonderful. Like they, like you were kind of saying, like the money is here. No, it's the money is not here. The money is with us.

It's not, we hold the money. The money has been taken away from the people that controlled it in the past. And now it's, everybody has, it's part of the money. Everybody is the money. You run a node.

You are the money. You, you are actively putting your resources and saying, I like this. This is what I want. This is what I believe in money. And this is what I'm going to back. So,

and to go back, I mean, I just want to go to the CBDC thing. Sure. I, I don't care what happens in Canada. I don't care. Wait,

I mean, I do care what happens in Canada. It's like a small potatoes in the grand scheme, I think. Yeah. So UK, those are all going to be testing grounds. But I've been saying all along and I'm going to stand by this. And maybe I can be proven wrong that the United States, they're not going to do a CBDC for a very long time, at least a retail CBDC. There could be a wholesale one. And I'm not going to say that, you know, I checked the box that there's a CBDC. That's not in my opinion.

It's going to be retail. And it's got to be rolled out on the mass, not in a pilot project. Right. So it's not going to happen for very long just because of the fact that you can't fuck it up. You know, we're talking about the world currency here, the world reserve currency that you can't you can't go around and have things fucked up. But if Congress says they don't want to do it and the president says you don't want to do it, this,

I don't know. I'd love to know the answer. The federal reserve claims to be its own entity. Can't they just do it regardless as if, I don't know. Yeah. I can build it. Yeah.

So I think that the language is the federal reserve can build it if they want, but implementing it is a different story okay yeah because right now they're doing project hamilton and so that's just something that is um they're just learning about it that too bad the hat is coming off so they're just learning about it just looking at uh some possibilities but it's still just you know it's something that's on a drawing room board right now but still the federal reserve is the one that's manning that one it's called project project hamilton but either way i mean

i don't want to talk too much about cbdc you were you were you you wanted to go on into the next thing well i just i i kind of already touched on it that the white house has done basically an about face over the last like seven days ish right like baltunischunas, who works for Bloomberg, covers ETFs, put a tweet out, I think, it feels like last Sunday, maybe not yesterday, but a Sunday back, and said, yeah, we now at Bloomberg view the ETF approval likelihood next week moving up 75% from 25%, lots of things going on behind the scenes. Why did they change their mind suddenly, except for the reasons we've been giving? People say like, oh, Ethereum is not a, it's a commodity, blah, blah, blah.

Clearly, it fails the Howey test. It fails. So the only reason this thing could have been approved all of a sudden is because the political winds demand it. And to me, that's significant, isn't it? It feels to me like there's been a huge shift here in the United States. Luke Gromen, Meanwhile, countries like Canada, the UK, other EU countries, or I should say EU countries, since the UK is not in the European Union anymore,

but it seems to me like they're making things harder on Bitcoin and crypto. And now the US has basically said, nah, we're going to embrace it. We're going to give it regulatory framework. You have candidates talking about it. It's a frontline issue in the election. It's an incredible moment in history. And Len, I don't know what it was like in the early days of Bitcoin, pre-2017. Shit, even 2017, I wasn't paying that much attention.

But has there been a bigger week for Bitcoin in the mainstream than the last seven days? I don't know. I honestly don't know. And I realize that the Ethereum ETF is not the Bitcoin ETF, but again, directionally, you're seeing a clear pivot by a government that has been completely opposed to anything related to Bitcoin in their own policy documents. Stuff about trying to make mining illegal, anti-crypto army, SEC bearing down on ETF products, forcing people into substandard vehicles to invest in Bitcoin, forcing people into substandard vehicles to invest in Bitcoin,

forcing people into high beta, like MicroStrategy or Coinbase instead of the spot. Now, they've just completely changed their mind. There's no other explanation except this is a voting issue now. And they want people to know that they're pro-Bitcoin, pro-crypto. It's incredible. This has been a huge, huge week. And I think it's a week where we won't appreciate the magnitude of it for some time because it's just happening so fast. But you're going to look back on this in a year or two years when the price is 150K per Bitcoin. And probably, if I'm being honest, it's probably going to be 10,000 or something per Ethereum. God knows what else. Where they draw the line on other ETS now, there's no barrier to entry at this point. You're going to look back on this and be like,

holy shit, that was the week when we knew for sure that everything had changed and we weren't paying attention enough. We weren't giving enough credence. But I think you're there now in a big way. And I don't know what else to say about it, except that if you're not exposed to Bitcoin at this point, if you're still one of these people who thinks it's a scam or you're talking about like, I have friends who are bright who are like, well, quantum computing can ruin the mining. If these are your arguments, it's time to start buying. It's time to start, not financial advice. But you should have some exposure to this at this point because the, the winds have clearly changed here. There's no going back from this.

I don't think anyway, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. You get your hand on your chin there. Like you're going to say something. No, I'm just curious with number one, I have a few things that I want to mention the ETF for Ethereum. Predator was the one that brought this up. can't believe how that's well i don't

understand how that's going to operate within a proof of stake system because if it's going to be proof of stake where you know the more um the more you have and you stake it and are they going to be staking with the etf i don't know there's no staking an etf there's no staking in etfs oh okay yeah because think of the possibilities there to be so centralized and the ability to control the the network okay that's but what i wanted to get at though is this is something that for you and i and everybody i guess listening and watching the show uh the announcement by trump was massive right yeah uh it's because it was having a presidential candidate and you know somebody who is quite likely going to be the next president of the states talking about bitcoin this is huge right but think about other things that that were talked

about that were huge amongst other people that never resonated sorry it never became reality for sure the mexican wall for instance remember uh they're gonna put the wall and have mexico pay for it i thought he tried i thought he tried to build the wall and it like they stopped building it or something i don't know i think they started i mean the wall was being built but did mexico pay a penny and to the best of my knowledge no that's okay no you're right you're right yeah they did pay something along the lines of 1.5 billion for border security but that was in 2022 that was a couple years after trump has left so maybe it could be attributed to the wall and maybe not i don't know but either way i mean he also talked about eliminating the debt

and if you look at the debt every year under his power excluding 2020 because that year the debt went up tremendously and it was a result of not his policies but global policies um the debt in the other years it was you know was going up like he's like he was like spending five percent more than obama which is a little less than what you'd expect to see president to president but still not the promise he made you're right okay i didn't realize it was five percent i was just looking at a chart and it just continued on and see people that pre i should say like you mentioned there pre-covid and all bets are off yeah yeah you can't look at those that that data so if you look at that people like there must have been some people out there like us

that we like hearing him talk about bitcoin and he was talking about say eliminating debt or building a one and those people that like those messages the same way we like hearing him talk about bitcoin the water a lot of water is passed under the bridge now it's been forgotten right and i fear that the same thing's going to happen this time is it's in our mind it's in our foresight right now we still bitcoin and he's talking about it but who knows what's going to happen in a year from now will he talk about it like you know we got burned many a time there were melee it's going to come up with the debate though too like that's the other thing that i have in the back of my mind and i'm sure you do too and people listening and watching like you know len Bitcoin is 100K in September, October,

when these debates are happening and when the elections fever pitch, how can it not be an election issue? I don't know how they're going to discuss it. You're going to see whether or not the Biden team and the Trump team really understand Bitcoin at that point, because they're going to have to talk about it. They should have to talk about the trials that

fiat has been subjected to over the last 60 years, 50 years, the trials that inflationary policies during COVID put on the value of the dollar, all these things. I don't know. And I should mention that you know tore up in the chat saying politicians placate we should we should verify you're right and you and i are you know we talk about this all the time you can't oh and i was yeah because there's mele francis suarez remember him and the miami great hair on that guy yeah incredible um your buddy eric adams uh my my buddy yeah dinner forever was responsible for the central african republic decision i don't know the person's name but that's another one um jane castor if you

remember her she has the tampa mayor who's gonna accept whatever now i haven't heard a thing then there's also this local dude who bought a shawarma and with bitcoin and then never talked about it ever again right so like we've had uh you know wendy hamilton remember when we were a young show wendy hamilton came on the show and i you know what i even though like i may not agree with all her policies i still i like her me too but she but she talked about bitcoin during her campaign and then she never was elected i know but i still follow her on twitter i never say anything about bitcoin like do you like it or do you not like it?

That's what I'm curious about. Let's bring it up. I like her too. I love her. There's something about her that I really like. But either way, I hope she runs again. Me too. I'd like to see her run.

But yeah, so a lot of this, I'm just not going to hold my breath. It might be an issue for debates that they'll be talking about in debates or may not. And you know what? Whatever. You know what? The thing that's really going to make people turn their heads with Bitcoin. What? And if it already hasn't, because it has for a lot of people, but there's still so many more that has to turn their heads.

When you see people, early adopters fucking driving Lambos and you see people in the mid 20s you know five years ago who bought in buying a fucking uh driving lambos and you see like i can't believe it's not 100k now i'm kind of disappointed it isn't 100k now given the fact that you have this these etfs and i'm not going to talk about etfs being good but it does make number go up and i can't believe we're not even close to 100k i thought for sure we'd be there by now but anyways that's here or there but our buddy manny manero today gave me an interesting stat my phone's on the charger over there but uh if you take away all the brc20 market cap the price is actually the price actually should be closer to like 110 000 us well until it's there until that is the trade that that spot being

spot price but either way like that's what's going to make head turns um when you see people that have bought in fucking driving lambos and people like how the fuck does that guy have a level oh he bought into bitcoin let's look into bitcoin that's right that's the shit that that's how things come out because when people look at and see somebody's life drastically changed for the better as a result of buying in that's what turns heads not all this other stuff that is it because that is proof in the pudding and people want to have that type of lifestyle people and people want to have an improved lifestyle and when you see other people do it just because of the fact that they got into bitcoin held it and they're using it the way they should be that's the fucking head turn did you did you i think we're done with this story i didn't see

this in the notes and i know you don't listen to mccormick's show out of principle but uh sailor making waves was something he said on the podcast there that you would have a lot to say about so it's too bad we don't have it in the notes but this idea that uh you know continuing to be too aggressive with network changes is a good way to lose the store of value feature in favor of the sovereignty element or something like that. I have to go back and listen to it again, but I saw it on Twitter a little while ago. There's a lot of people talking about it now. You should listen to that and see what you think. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

I've heard a clip. Yeah. I've heard a clip. I don't want to to see i i think i've talked about this before and this is just one person's opinion and maybe i'm just blowing smoke here but the reality is i don't want to see anything come in too soon i don't want to see um what was the mechanism they used for taproot um there was speedy trial i don't want to see speedy trial done again for a very long time unless it's absolutely required that's a safe bet i think at this point i hope so i hope we've learned our lesson i don't want to see anything come in without extensive testing when

you see opcat when you see ctv all this other stuff that people want to bring in there are there is a lot of good that comes along with it but I don't know if it opens up Pandora's box that we can't close in the future. And we can't fuck this up. We're talking about modernizing money, and we can't just fuck it up. And there is an issue. There is a massive issue that it doesn't scale the way it is right now.

The way it's set up right now, it does not scale to the globe. Every person in the globe, it just doesn't work. That's what they're trying to solve. I get it, but I'm not sure if we should be executing these. Maybe more testing, more looking at it should be required. It should take maybe years, decades. Do we have that amount of time? I don't know.

I don't know i i don't know i mean we've had the whole ordinals saga gave us at least an insight what happens in a high fee environment between that and the brc20 tokens i'm gonna just clump them all together so that shows us what happens when fees are high and fees could get much much higher than that too. So hopefully people have learned from that and have adapted. In my personal opinion, I would suggest try to learn Lightning and Lightning that you have access to your keys,

not that you're relying on something like Wallet or Satoshi where it's just that they have it and they can fuck it up for you. But if you can run your own Lightning node, stuff like that, where you have control, that might be the best option. Hopefully you've already learned and you've done that if not there's still time to do it don't wait until fees are high do it now but i i agree with him that we shouldn't

be moving too fast because if we do it like i said pandora's box if it gets opened up we're screwed and everything we've done is all for not yeah Yeah, I agree. I'm with you on that. Yeah. I think there will be changes to the network. There almost has to be, but it's too, it's man, like important stuff here, especially now when there's going to be a lot of pressure and a lot of eyes looking to make changes and do something right. That's a learn of you, by the way, a couple of moments on that interview, Len one in particular, I shared with you that I won't repeat on the air.

I'd be shocked if the mainstream media doesn't pick up some of the stuff you said, because it's in the current sort of zeitgeist, very controversial stuff, very controversial stuff. And he's on MSNBC. He's on, uh, Fox. He's on all these different, you know, I'd be be i'd be super shocked if no one in mainstream picked this up over the next few days because that he's against the grain right now that's putting it pretty lightly the stuff he said like it's that's the kind of stuff that'll get you fired from your

c-suite in any fortune 500 company you get you get terminated any fortune 500 do you think we'll see what happens yeah do you think he's gonna some more no no i think he's no no i think he's fine i think his board probably agrees with the stuff he said because he has so much control like he has so much yeah i just think that i just think they're so aligned on the important stuff that the social stuff just doesn't matter to them um did you see that they're going to be added to russell 1000 i did yeah i did i'm surprised they're not already there i mean the russell 1000 i did yeah i did i'm surprised they're not already there i mean the cbp they've been knocking under i still have to file the paperwork and we gotta get on that yeah i'm surprised we're gonna open i'll file it this

week one cent per share how many shares do you have again are we just one to one split or are we like 1000 to 1000 i forget i can't remember but you know we could um we can always do a stock split and a buyback can't we can we do stock split and a buyback, can't we? Can we do a stock split and a buyback? Is that allowed? We can do whatever we want, man. We got to call our account. Our account is hilarious.

I'm going to call him. Be like, listen, Steve, help me with this. And it just reminded me of something. I don't want to go back, but you know the Ethereum ETF? Yeah. And the fact that it's been approved. I'm wondering, you were saying because there's people in power that might have you know that might be enriched as a result of all i don't

think i don't think that's no i don't think that's even the top five reasons i think i think the votes i think they need the votes i think if people are but i also think that think about the who was responsible for the creation of ethereum was it jp morgan was involved consultant on uh yeah on a handful of things yeah i believe it was i'm wondering then how much sway they have with all this with having this approved maybe there is something or maybe like this is the jeff to vic theory of cbdc's right that ethereum is going to be the base layer for all this stuff and uh you know maybe we'll have to have Mark on again. He hasn't been on in a few months.

I'd be curious to hear what he thinks about this ETF thing, because I know he's not necessarily a fan of Ethereum, but I think he sees the vision for what it could be as far as like a government tool or a CBDC tool. And I just don't have the technical, you know, wits to, to talk about it.

But I, I, I got to refresh myself on his, his thoughts and theories there interesting man i don't know did you listen to the bankless folks because did they they did it was like an emergency episode or something i i had it in my queue but i didn't listen to it like i don't i don't need the hype i i'm more curious about the why and i i couldn't find it except for that they think it's a good idea politically which is never a good way to approve etf this opens the door it's everything everything what what do we

stop i mean dog with hat etf coming soon you know like look out for that what else can you say it is what's the what's the next one is it confirmed that it was approved, by the way? Yeah, it's approved. It hasn't started trading yet, but it's still legit. And Gensler, unlike the Bitcoin one, which obviously was a complete catastrophe, and leaks and drawbacks and password hacks and Elon tweeting about how these guys don't know how to use 2FA, whatever, right? That was one thing.

But all they said with this was there is no statement to come with the Ethereum ETF, except that it's approved. They're pissed. They're pissed. Gensler was on a crusade against this stuff. Like I said, like,

like 24 hours before the approval. And then he just gets told to shut up and do his job the way that they want to do it. Like what else is there to say? There is a civil war going on. A hundred percent. And we're not privy to everything and if they've done this i can't like how much longer before the solana one gets approved if you look at

ethereum to solana that's just like if you're if you're a dgen if you're a dgen len like you're buying all this stuff waiting for etfs like whatever the top like it's solana's its own chain so not that but like whatever the top like you know 10 meme coins on solana are like if you're a dj and you're just going wherever you get them binance or coinbase and you're just loading up because you figure if solana gets an etf even if it's a year from now or two years from now you're basically guaranteed to get it. So why not just load your bags? The problem with these guys is that on one hand, they will go through this entire dog and pony show over GameStop and AMC a few years ago, as if the

financial system is this serious vehicle for serious players doing serious research, working on fundamentals, when really it's all just bullshit. It's all just bullshit. The whole thing is made up. Fundamentals don't matter. They're approving ETS for stuff that's clearly not, that's clearly a security in Ethereum's case. What matters? How do these guys who work on Wall Street get up in the morning and think like, yeah, today I'm going to prove to the world that I'm one of the smartest guys in the room? You're a moron. You're just a guy who goes to work every day. Your entire job revolves around whether or not the printer is on or off. Guys, to quote Bitstein, you, a Wall Street analyst working 70 hour weeks to make 3% returns, me, a Bitcoiner, eating steak, shit posting on Twitter, making 40%

CAGR and not worried about missing dinner with my kids. This is the story. The whole financial system is a joke. It's a joke. And everyone knows it now. The only people who don't know it are the people who are paying like, you know, two and 10 to these like shitty fund managers and wealth managers and whatever. These people don't have any skills. And it's shown more and more every day that the whole thing just kind of runs on vibes and whether the printer's on or not. Crazy. Isn't that crazy?

The most modern economy that the world has ever seen, the most global economy, the most liquid economy is all just, you know, feelings and funk, baby. It's all it is. No one actually knows anything and the skills just don't really matter.

Period. End of story. What else can you say? Well, number go up for certain things just because money will always flow in. I'm looking at stuff like apple microsoft yeah yeah sure etf the etfs is a whole other thing right the automatic buys yeah it's another story you know those like okay the fact that they're going to be doing this

ethereum etf and who knows how many others are going to be coming down the pipe in the same vein but it was inevitable is if you look at the etf they approved to date and i'm not even looking at the bitcoin one but they had one that was like inverse pelosi or this and so they had all these meme ones there's inverse kramer out there they approved them they get these and they fucking approve them it's crazy yeah it's crazy look at even len you remember i don't want to call out green candle too much for this but remember he was doing spaces with this guy named George Noble? Yeah. Noble.

Like a tri-fi dude, right? He turned out to just be another idiot clown. He was a guy who put out this ETF and the ETF, the ticker was NOPE, N-O-P-E. And the whole thing was like, this whole market's a Ponzi, it's going to come crashing down anytime, blah, blah, blah. The thing was the worst performing ETF, I think of all time, maybe, or close, certainly was the worst performing ETF of the year that it released. And he had to shut the fund. He had to close it down because the thing was just like a zero. It just went to zero over time. He was betting against the vibes. And I just think people are now literally trying to overcomplicate this to the point where I just laugh. You don't know what you're talking about. There's not a serious environment around

the financial realm. There's just not. It's all just know let's see what color ty jerome comes out in today it's crazy that's my whole argument with a lot of this is because the denominator is the u.s dollar which is we don't know how many are in existence we can't do anything and people just based i'm saying it out of whim but it's not the reality but they could add or decrease money in the system they typically don't decrease it but they add it when decrease money in the system. They typically don't decrease it, but they add it when required, right? And when you do that, it just devalues everything. And I'm not saying just what you're betting on,

but your time, man. Like all the people, the pensioners out there, people that scroll money in the bank, like you're fucking, all your efforts are just all for naught because of somebody else making decisions for you and that to me pisses me off that's why i don't like that i'm not a fan of all that i'd rather just disconnect from it let me just deal with a system that is i can understand it much better 21 million that's ever going to be ever issued i could verify every fucking transaction and if i have it i could

verify like that is something beautiful and that's why i'm always going to push for that everything else when i go back to the original story with trump that's why i'm neutral i'm not pro not for it's like whatever you can say what the fuck he wants to me it's just political theater yeah i agree this shit cannot be stopped and for me the only thing that really matters to me, everybody's different, is how many sats I have. I don't care about the price. I go for days without looking at the fucking price of Bitcoin.

And I even have a block clock behind me and every fucking turn, I don't even fucking care. The only thing that really matters, it doesn't. Because the price could 10x and it's not going to change my life. I just care how many fucking sats I have. That's it and if i have more tomorrow than i have today i'm fucking happy yeah and i'm going to always fight for that and that's it i mean hopefully other people kind of come to the same realization but if not all the more power to you man but eventually you're going to want to unplug from that system and take control

of your finances and you have no other way to do without bitcoin and fucking don't deal with this custodial bullshit don't deal don't fucking buy and leave on an exchange or don't fucking lend it out none of that bullshit fucking buy it put it in fucking your own wallet seal those fucking keys up you're good and anything else you do you're just rolling the dice i don't want to do with that agreed um the noble etf also nope didn't go to zero but it is you know way down no it's stuck at eight dollars but it hasn't been traded since august yeah that's he closed up shop yeah he closed up shop august i think last year or whatever the hell it is but some august just 23 yeah anyway um damn i was gonna go all in that's it for uh the bitcoin slash i

mean that's bitcoin news big news this week we don't have to go too deep in the uh in the story list but um yeah do you want to we should go like a four-hour episode today joe oh my god this guy as if i don't know how anyone like uh brent fromwards Turn Me On is podcast Murder Made. And it's a guy literally talking about like historical events that are a little bit dark, sometimes a lot dark for like four hours. I can't sit in one place. I'm a millennial. I got my attention spans already basically zero. I can't sit in one place for more than like 45 minutes. This is the only time I do this. You notice my interviews, even when I'm solo doing the interviews, they than like 45 minutes this is the only time i do this you notice my interviews even when i'm solo doing the interviews they're like 50 minutes like i just can't sit for that long i get like itchy i gotta leave i can't be here anymore i gotta go do something else patrick

bet david his shows in the past right and me his shows yeah uh i do if the guest is good i don't listen to the what does he call it the home team ones which is him and the boys there yeah yeah so those episodes just in general they will go two hours sometimes two and i can i can do it like listening but i can't do it interviewing i don't know maybe it's a skill i need to learn more but um yeah but that guy that you're talking about that Brent put you on, he's not interviewing anybody, is he? MartyrMate is by himself. Yeah. By himself. So Schiff's the worst. Yeah.

I haven't listened to Schiff's Stream of Consciousness podcast in a while. Anyway, listen, we're going to cut the Bitcoin stuff here. If you're on video, don't do anything. Just stay. If you're on audio, the rest of the episode will come out tomorrow. And until then, take care of yourself. Yeah, take care. And don't be a cock.

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