The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #166 (Bitcoin News Stories) - Ocean Mining, Bukele's Long Term Plan, Bitcoin Company Strategy

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Ocean mining expands -Riot wants Bitfarms -Semler buys Bitcoin -Metaplanet buy more Bitcoin -Hashrate moving higher and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast here on CBP Media Network. My name is Joey. That's Len, my brother in Christ. What's going on today? What a day in terms of weather. What a day in terms of activities here. What's going on?

What happened with the weather over there? It's great. What do you mean? It's a fantastic day today. Oh, it didn't rain? No. We got, yeah, rain done us for about half the day. We got a little bit this morning, but it was good by the time I got home from walking my dog.

Lucky, yeah. It was basically screwed the time I got home from walking my dog. Lucky. Yeah. No, we just, it was basically screwed over my lunch. I was wanting to take Sabrina to go play some tennis at lunch because she was home today. Nice. Never happened. So, so you guys had a PA day.

There was no PA day here as far as I can tell. Yeah. I'm not sure what's going on. I don't, I have no idea, but she definitely had a PA day and uh yeah i wanted to take her out for some tennis but again as i said it's just you got lucky man what can i say i mean you know what another thing is it's rained on us a ton for our golf and we haven't played all that

much because well it's the rain it's just it's just a funny year with respect to my uh what i want to do outside i get seem to get screwed on screwed over by the rain and uh yeah whatever it is what it is it's all good buddy don't worry about it uh glad to hear you doing okay yeah i mean otherwise things are good we got uh we had a brief um you know relationship with 70 000 bitcoin this morning which was nice i haven't seen 70 000 in a few weeks we'd like to see that again tonight during the show let's see what we can do did we celebrate at all or just it's i didn't i didn't sell you anything i was just kind of i tweeted the corn emoji at the gym that's it that's the extent of my celebration so there you go anyway um why don't we do the sponsors

then uh we'll hop into the housekeeping and we got a full slate of stuff for you guys tonight as always easy dns what can you say about uh easy dns that hasn't been said about penicillin or the wheel uh truly an innovative company making a difference in the lives of canadians and international patrons alike mark and team have a company where you can bring a domain if you have one already you can buy a domain if you don't have one already you can use their services to build a website you can use their services to start something on the virtual private server side maybe you want to do a bitcoin node naster relay btc pay server there's got to be other stuff that i'm not thinking of that we don't know about that they also do and uh if you guys listen to access of easy you would also know that Mark will help you secure your domain in a way that makes sense, is responsible, efficient, effective, and cutting edge. I don't know if Access of Easy is a show where every week I think to myself that it's a good thing we know Mark.

Because if we didn't, we'd probably have run into some problems by now. But head over there. Tell Mark we sent you. CBP Media is the code. And you get 50 50 off your first round of buys which is great i know you guys using the code i don't know for what maybe hoarding domains i know len was a domain domain hoarder i'm not sure if you still are but uh no no i'm just started looking recently into some interesting ones definitely i haven't hoarded anything in terms of domain names. Noted. Okay.

Interesting. There's somebody else we know that does it. And I don't want to out him just in case he doesn't want to be known for that. But yeah, definitely. We know somebody that has a ton more than one. Actually, I know two people I know that have. Yeah. But again, I don't want to out them. So anyway, the other sponsor, who is it?

Well, Bitcoin. Oh, Bitcoin. As you mentioned, the price of bitcoin hit 70 000 us today what was that right close to 100k you uh canadian is that we're pushing yeah we're pushing it's gonna be 90 98 99 97 something like that i'm not sure i don't i don't really keep track of the value of the dollar although it looks like we're gonna get a cut this week so i'll tell you the value of that dollar is gonna go down the value of the loonie is gonna go down which would be fine.

But anyway. How about against Mexican pesos? Let's do it. Let's not go there. Anyways, so yeah, whole Bitcoin, you know, obviously since the price of Bitcoin has gone up, you have the opportunity to sell if you want. So you could sell through your on-chain.

You could sell through Lightning. But also you could buy. Because you're not going to just sell. I'd prefer people buy and do your own research not financial advice of course but bull has you covered with that you could obviously buy your bitcoin through them but a couple other things that they have number one you can buy gift cards with your bitcoin so again the price of bitcoin has gone up considerably in the past year or so. So if you want to start spending that Bitcoin in the real world, you could do so indirectly by buying those gift cards through Bull Bitcoin.

And through that, you could spend your Bitcoin indirectly and you're sort of living on the Bitcoin standard. And also what you could do is pay your bills with Bull Bitcoin. So you have your bills, you have your car payment, you have your electricity bill, whatever the fuck you have. You could use your Bitcoin through Bull Bitcoin and pay those bills, which is really, really cool. So a lot of different options over there. They also released an app for just very, very recent, I think in the last month.

I still haven't taken a look at it, so it's hard for me to say. I'd love to hear what people think about that app because it's still rather new. I think it was first announced last year and a lot of work has been done in the past little while, but either way, if you haven't opened up a bull Bitcoin account, what are you waiting for? Do it. Use our promo code below. If you do that, fund your account, 21 bucks will be added to your account.

Can't beat it. Can't beat it. Uh, just in case I can't find the disclaimer, um, in the new anchor episode editor, nothing we say on this program is financial advice. And if you listen to us, bankruptcy is in your future. So do not listen to us. We know nothing. Len and I hold no licenses.

We have between us about 80 or 90 IQ and a couple of brain cells to rub together. So don't listen to anything we say. And if you do listen to something we say and you do get rich, you owe us actually 10% of the proceeds. I'm shaking my head for the audio. Can't touch us if you lose it all.

But if you don't, remember me come Christmas time. That's a miracle. No, no. The reason why I would never even suggest such a thing is number one, morally that's not right. But second thing,

in order to do that, you'd have to trade. Because if you're simply buying and holding bitcoin we're all going to get you know wealthy at the same time so right and again like maybe one more thing to add on top of all that this is all just tongue-in-cheek yeah not only is it not financial advice i'll say it now i'll say it now too since we are more and more cannibalizing the YouTube audience via Twitter. If you're listening on Twitter, retweet the show. If you're listening or watching on YouTube, like the video, share it out, send it to your mother, your father, your brother, your sister, your mechanic, your priest, whatever. Put some wind in the sails of the CBP flag here.

Or your mother's spirit. Or your whatever. Okay, there goes the monetization goes the long list of people you could yeah right so the housekeeping last week len who did you talk to you're doing you did last week you're doing this week i think you may be also doing next week and then uh i'll pick up uh a few interviews in between there who you got this got this week? Well, Tarash is coming in and we'll be talking about Bitcoin mining on an industrial level

because he's part of a company that offers Sunnyside Digital, I believe is the name of the company. And so he offers equipment to people that were companies that need it. So setting it up, providing solutions. This seems to be a lot of the things I've been looking at these days

and a lot of the discussion I've been talking about. So this will be fun to talk about. Last week I talked to Ronnie from El Salvador. He's the gentleman that moved there from Canada three years ago, I think it was. Either way, it was within the past four years. And I was going to chat with him and get a different perspective of what's going on over there.

He's got boots on the ground over there. He's living the lifestyle of a Bitcoiner. And so he's putting his mouth, uh, where's money, where his mouth is in this case, it's that's where his mouth is. So it's good to hear what's going on over there.

So it was a good chat. Yeah. And I want to bring them back on, especially as things progress in El Salvador. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. If you enjoyed that,

you'll enjoy, uh, our other stuff we've done with Jaime and there's tons of stuff to talk about el salvador obviously um huge huge uh story with their bitcoin uh strategy obviously everyone knows that so yeah interesting stuff there len this week uh we have a full slate of stuff but as always the boosts first i think right when we head there next yeah okay uh owen to 500 sats he writes in with the ronnie discussion i had he says interesting convo good question about the future of five plus years guess we'll have to wait and see what happens and this is with respect to what happens when bukele eventually

is no longer in office because i don't think he'll be able to run again unless he's able to jump through more hurdles um that may be possible but but if that isn't the case, I wonder what happens with the country. Do you want to see that, though? Isn't that a little worrisome to you, that that's even on the table, him jumping through more hurdles for a third term? That is a little bit concerning. I'm not sure if he wants to do that.

I can't speak for him. I haven't even talked to anybody about that. Everyone seems to like what he's done to date. So having him there for another term might make a lot of people happy, especially if they continue on the same course. Yeah. But, you know, historically, you know, if you're in there for too long, the things, you know, I don't want to jinx it,

but, you know, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And who knows what's going to transpire if he does go for a third term or even beyond that. So either way, five years from now is going to be very interesting to say the least. But yeah, not just there, here, down south, just about everywhere. Yeah. A lot of interesting things going on. Rander, 500 sats.

He writes in, fuck the CBC, global and CTV. Can't stand any mainstream media honestly doom damasm 521 sats writes in thank you for your time you're welcome you're welcome bitcoin plus food 1000 sats nothing he writes absolutely or she or whatever it writes in nothing so man i'm giving you an opportunity to write something and you know whatever for your time. Growing platform will literally say anything for 1,000 stats. You don't get that kind of value anywhere. No. Doug and Rup, 1,025 stats.

He writes, looking forward to joining the three-plus million other Brit males who are neither working nor actively looking for work once fiat continues to lose value to five cents per US, five cents per US cent and below. And then i'll be a full-time shit poster so in theory while not fiat economically active i'll be busy so he's going to be doing his part to do shit post after the um british pound collapses and yeah this is with respect to a story last week we talked about there's three plus million british males that just are not looking to work and that's you know a sizable portion like a measurable portion of their working population which is very troublesome

i think that's going to go down after sony's you know state of play uh video that came out last week i don't think anyone's going to be looking to play video games at least not those ones what a dud did you watch that? You're a gamer. Did you watch the State of Play from Sony last week? Total dud. Total dud. Embarrassment. Really?

Oh, yeah. Dog shit. Some of the worst I've ever seen. The guys from Digital Foundry I was listening to today, even them, they're usually pretty even keeled, and they just shot all over it. It is true, though, that the gaming industry really sucks now. Like I said to you before on the show, there only like four games maybe i i would play regularly and uh it says something that i re-picked up call of duty last year for the first time in a while just

because there's no other decent like game to play you make the argument that was not decent either but anyway funny uh the duggan roop um he didn't mention the uh mandatory service so he's gonna be busy whether he's employed or not right he'll be uh volunteering for his majesty's uh royal army i guess is that the the intention of our boy our boy rishi over there he's up to something over there he's up yeah rain but you know a lot of other countries do that as well that you're forced to like doesn't mean it's good it's still a stupid idea well i'm just trying to say like it's it's not like out of the realm of normalcy just other countries do it and you know maybe some people will pick up some discipline from that i've never gone through it so i can't say anything but i know in italy it's it's forcibly forced upon

you israel switzerland probably a few places sweden so a bunch of other countries so whatever it is i mean you're forced to do your mandatory service and do you think all the migrants have to do mandatory service when they come over to italy they don't you have to be a citizen in order to do that and you have to be a citizen within a certain age group between 18 and 27 well they're definitely between that age the question is whether or not they have to do it for other reasons you know a story for another time let's say i could just speak strictly as per the law which i know so uh i know maybe they'll have and do other things but i just want to double back you were saying about the the video game thing this is the worst generation for video game consoles the consoles have been terrible

i think what do you think yeah yeah we both have ps5s i bought my ps5 from you in a parking lot so yeah the the amount of games that they're rehashing from yesteryear they're just oh man it goes to show you not only has the movie industry lost any sort of ideas the video game world has also done that when you're just rehashing the same old thing and just it's a repackaged version of some old game and i understand that works that's a good idea but everything's a boardroom game the guys digital foundry call it everything now is clearly a boardroom game i think that's a great term it's like a bunch of people have never built

a game or played a game just looking at data and dopamine receptors and pumping that's your product 100 oh yeah go go look i don't know if you haven't looked yet at the state of play i can't remember what the game the first game they uh this the first game they showed was this is not cpp material but whatever i was listening to uh these guys today now it's on my mind the the first game they showed was a new IP and the, it took up like a third maybe of the total runtime of the state of play. State of play is this thing Sony does every so often to put on display the games that it has coming down the pipe.

It's like a hype video basically. Len, they did mostly pre-rendered video. Like it was all just fake, no gameplay. And then when they showed the gameplay, it just looked like Overwatch. Just garbage, garbage gameplay, garbage story, garbage shit humor. Great example of a boardroom game. They take a formula they think is going to work and they just drop it on you and hope that enough kids are obsessed with the shiny colors and

explosions that they get mom and dad to buy the game and another 50 bucks worth of skins on top of that and call it a day it's just unbelievable how dog shit the games are they they are coming out with um a super mario galaxy style astro game which you may be interested in uh that was the thing they used to put the to show you how the sensitive triggers worked astro games are good that game is going to be huge apparently it's like it's like 80 different levels or something like that it's enormous yeah astro game they're very good they do a good job with that that's a sony exclusive and they build it in-house and i i like the fact there's two things i just want to mention before if you want to get off this topic number one it's a good thing that xbox and playstation are both backwards compatible with the previous generation

because if they weren't they'd be absolutely trash and the second thing all this what i said doesn't apply to the switch the switch they have way better games in my opinion yeah and nintendo is unbelievable yeah just the zeldas the two zeldas alone yeah our system sellers but yeah that's all i gotta say all right great we can talk about we'll talk about that more on the first ever cbp video game podcast coming out next week look forward to that that'll be a one and done deal deal i don't think we'll go any further than that joy do you want to talk about ocean mining sure which voice do i have you're in charge of the stories so let's talk quickly about them very very quick because i i think because we were talking about el salvador i think it's a good

opportunity to talk about ocean mining because they formed what they called what i call an international hub of business development i'm not sure exactly what that means but this hub is going to be located in el salvador it's from my vantage point, this is a rather interesting move because as an ocean mining, they're a mining company, mining pool. I'd love to know what business development they're going to be able to take advantage, what opportunities exist for a Bitcoin mining pool. Granted, I'm looking at with my blinders on through the basement. I don't have the same type of grand scope that they do.

But it's hard for me to see what it is that they're going to be developing into. But, you know, I'll leave it to them. They've been very good so far. They've been very good actors so far. Things could change. Who knows? But anyways, El Salvador, they are slowly becoming a hub for Bitcoin related companies. So this is not the only one that has moved there or started setting up shop.

The only one, another one that immediately comes to mind is Strike. Remember, they moved their headquarters, I think from Chicago it was initially. Yeah. But either way, it was somewhere in the mainland United States and it moved over to El Salvador. So that was just about a month or two ago. So now I'm going to go to what we talked about earlier. What's going to happen if Bukele is out of office? You know, these companies that are slowly setting up shop, doing business over there, trying to build a Bitcoin community

within El Salvador. Is there a potential rug waiting to happen? Yes. Yes. Yeah, you kind of. So I'm looking at these moves, good moves. I would strike moving their headquarters. That's pretty ballsy. Ocean is just setting up this hub of international, international hub of business development. So I would imagine they're, they're investing some time and money into this, but their headquarters is not going to be located there.

So the rug for ocean would not hurt as much as it would strike. So yeah, you're in the same opinion. There is something that could potentially go wrong with all this not to say that will but the chances are i think the chances are pretty high like wow okay yeah i mean think about well i don't want to get into mexico but we're going to get into it okay so strap in mexico has 37 candidates murdered i think think, in this cycle. Did I see that right? 37 different candidates for president murdered during an election cycle, and they end up

electing a climate scientist as a president. It just seems incredibly unlikely that Mexico would elect, I'm putting air quotes around that, a climate scientist. Elections are notoriously fraught with corruption and cheating and international interference. And the idea that El Salvador, in five years, if Bitcoin is worth 500K, the strategy has been an overwhelming success. The US dollar continues to weaken. It doesn't have to go away, but it continues to weaken. The idea that the powers that be will not take a keen, acute interest in the outcome of the next presidential election, I think is like completely ridiculous. And they're going to rug pull Bitcoin in El Salvador for sure. From what I understand, outside of Bitcoin Beach,

and I would love for someone to tell me I'm wrong about this. From what I understand, oh my God, this spicy water is giving me a burps here. The guys, but yeah, the aha waters are so good, but man, you just can't. I never heard of it.

Oh, that's great. It's great. Shoppers drug, my brand. Anyway, um, that's a copyright infringement.

Thank you, Galen. So anyway, uh, the, the thing like that people don't think about, I lost my train of thought. The,

the, the election El Salvador, the next one is going to be significant. There's no way that everyone's just going to sit by, everyone being sort of the global powers. They're not just going to sit idly by while this country that was an IMF debt slave emerges as a shining beacon of exactly how to get out from underneath the IMF's thumb. Victoria Nuland is waking up with cold sweats thinking about how she can start a war

or a coup d'etat or whatever over there. I'd even take it a step further, Len. Bukele's got, what, four years now since his... He was just sworn in like a day or two ago. If Bitcoin gets to 500K, he doesn't make it through four years. I'm not saying he dies, but he doesn't make it through four years.

There's no way. And like I was saying before, before I started burping, all I'm understanding is that outside of Bitcoin Beach, like the El Zante area, there's not a lot of Bitcoin adoption in that country. Make of that what you will. I know they're mining. I know they have it as a treasury asset, blah, blah, blah. But again, I think we have blown it up to be more than it actually is on the ground. The idea is magnanimous in a lot of ways, and it's directionally something that indicates there's change potentially coming for a lot of these countries. But it's going to be pretty easy to upset that delicate initial adoption stage

inside of the next four years, and I think even after that. So I expect that there's going to be, like I said, a focused effort from powers that be. It doesn't mean that Bitcoin is going to disappear in El Salvador, but you're not going to see a lot of stories about them no longer needing the IMF, getting out of their debts, their bonds are a screaming success, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. They'll go back to the status quo, and the status quo is ugly for the country and its people but it's a beautiful thing for um the proponents of this debt slavery uh relationship that um you know let's say that the very few top of the food chain countries have with the rest of the world so yeah do i think it's a rug pull to answer your question in a word yeah it's it's definitely a ripple we didn't happen did you see the video of the snipers that were being i guess

greeted by bukele and they were they sent out a bunch of snipers i forget the number 20 30 40 50 just strategically placed for his swearing-in ceremony to ensure that nobody did you see that video because it was pretty interesting they all all had masks on. So yeah, they understand that there is some danger with respect to him just doing what he does against the United States. Because he's stunned his nose at them many times and also the IMF. And you're right. The Bitcoin adoption, aside from, say, El Zonde or Bitcoin Beach, it's not very prevalent over there.

But you know what? It doesn't really matter in the end. What really matters is there's matter in the end it what really matters is there's improvement in the country crime it has been reduced and there's opportunities for people to work those are the things that truly matter bitcoin adoption will come or not depending if people want it you can't forcefully put it on them but if they have the opportunity to take it and they want it they have that option but like i was saying with ronnie there's a lot of people in a lot of parts of the world el salvador included they're basically whatever

they make there's not much savings that they have they basically spend it for food shelter and everything else just to sustain themselves so whatever's left they're not gonna buy bitcoin if there's anything left right so it's just kind of that's what i That's what I mean. I don't think... I'm not saying that we should give up just because the rug is coming. I think the rug is kind of inevitable for El Salvador, but we shouldn't give up. And who knows? Maybe you plant the seed and maybe it's not this generation

but the next one, right? That takes up the cross as the old phrase goes. So I don't know. I'm not negative on El Salvador. If anything, I'm way more positive than I used to be. But I mean, this is the danger. Yeah. And this is the danger of the cult of personality around Nayib Bukele. Do you even know, has he ever mentioned, has anyone ever looked into or thought about or

considered or looked forward to who might take the mantle from him and carry this on? No. No one in Bitcoin has a name. Not these guys who pump them up all the time, celebrating the bond prices. Not these guys all the time who podcast about how he's in tight with Max Keiser and Jack Mallers is there in a suit. None of these fucking people have given this any thought. They are, you know, it seems to me looking more for clicks than they are for competent plans. And this is what you get. You get a guy who's become more of a celebrity than a guy with a contingency strategy. And so the other question, Len, if he doesn't have a contingency strategy or hasn't talked

about it, is he in it for the Bitcoin or is he in it for the celebrity? No, no, I think he's in it for neither. If I have to guess, I could be proven wrong with this. He's playing 4D chess. And a lot of the moves he's done to date, they were executed perfectly to getting rid of the gangs and locking them up like a lot of this had to be done and done perfectly to ensure that there isn't any backlash because these people are armed they have a lot of you know so they were able to do that so in terms of him having a contingency plan i'm pretty sure he has one given the fact he having these snipers just protect him through

he's never talked about he's never brought up a name in fact i don't even think like if i look around you know almost anywhere i think about canada right canada is maybe not the best example but it's the easiest one to look at even if even if i don't think that trudeau necessarily has a contingency plan for when he loses at the ballot box next year if you know it's not a guarantee i suspect he will let's let's pretend he does i i don't necessarily think there's a you know a thought on his part that he's grooming someone for the position of of liberal party leader but i know who the five people are one of them is going to

be the liberal party leader right right? I can't even do that in El Salvador. So it's not like I even need Bukele to tell me that he's grooming somebody to take his throne, but there's not even another person around him who I can point to and say, yeah, this is a likely candidate. Now, maybe that's just me not paying enough attention. Maybe if I was local there or watching the news more with stuff like that, I'd see it. But in Bitcoin, we have a pretty good idea about stuff like this i'd see it but in bitcoin there is a pretty good you know we have a pretty good idea about stuff like this most of the time i haven't seen anyone talking about it either so i don't know if you're in the chat and you see it or you you know hear this this week

see it or know it tell me let me know as far as i can tell there's no one a potential because he did step down as president for a brief time yes yes the person who took his place was somebody that he trusted i'm not trying to say that this particular person may be the heir apparent but let's start with that person and see how what's the connection that person is there going to be longevity i this i don't know so i'm you know who the heck really knows so el salvador we're gonna do the cbp field trip to el salvador joy that's that'd be fun to do do a live episode from the beach i'll be surfing i have to learn how to surf i'm looking for any excuse to be at the beach with my shirt off and so you're

not going to really see me doing a lot of podcasting if we go i'll be on the i'll be on the board there no matter how many times i crash i'll always look good coming out of the water i've practiced that many times so it's a hard thing to i've tried wakeboarding and it's kind of close anyways riot let's talk about them this is a big story under under under sort of reported story after the day that this came out maybe maybe not i will dive deep into this because they've made waves this past week because they have announced they would like to buy up BitFarms. And this is all a proposal. $950 million is the price tag.

And so the price they wish to buy per share for BitFarms is $2.30 USD. And as of this past weekend, the price per share was $2.27 USD. So it's within the realm of that. I don't know what it is today. It traded today, but I didn't get the price per share was 227 usd so it's within the realm of that i don't know what it is today it traded today but i didn't get the price either way so and so buying big farms would make riot they're already a very large company but this would make them the largest publicly traded bitcoin miner in the world the video quality is looking crisp tonight that's i don't know what's causing it to make it look good either way uh so apparently this proposal was privately offered to bit farms right so this came out and it was public but apparently they first came to the people at bit farms and they gave them this

proposal back in april yeah but bit farms board rejected it and should there be a path forward for this in one way or another they they will then, Riot would then have mining operations in countries like the US, Canada, Paraguay, and Argentina. And all this would be under 2.2 gigawatts of total power capacity and 52 exahash of total hash rate. Those are two numbers you can't discard now the question i have if they do buy bit farms for instance and it did become the biggest publicly or the largest publicly traded bitcoin miner is this a step in the right direction to have bigger bitcoin mining companies these big ones amalgamated become even bigger it seems like to me it's a little bit of centralization but but this isn't open to market so participants could do whatever they want as long as they make shareholders happy and

operate and comply with the laws but with respect to bitcoin mining seems like a little bit of centralization but i'll be talking about how this may not be total centralization in the next story but let's stay on the riot thing. Like what's your thoughts on it? This is a hostile takeover attempt. If you, if you, I mean, I'm not an expert in this stuff, but boardroom etiquette is fleeting in this example. And I'll tell you why riot taking an offer to bit farms board in April and being rebuffed, rebuked, whatever the word is, and then

taking it public a few months later is, or a month later is an example of what I would call sort of, you know, a hostile takeover, an activist board trying to get things done. And so what happens normally is if you can't convince the board, you convince the shareholders. The problem with Riot shareholders and Bitfarm shareholders and all this stuff, how many people holding Bitfarms and Riot really care whether or not those two outfits merge from a mining centralization standpoint? 30% of the shareholders, you know, like it's, it's small, it's a small number. Right. And so like, yeah. Or it's like the, the, you know, below the lowest integer, I think it's the zero. Yeah. So like the, the, you know, the thing that I would, I would point out is that shareholders are mercenaries when it comes to, you know, the, the per price or the per

share price. What did you say the offer was? $250 something? Did I hear that right? $950 million proposal, but also of note too. I didn't even know that. What was the per share? $2.30 USD.

That's less than what Bitfarm is trading at now, right? It's trading at $2.33 today, up 5% with the price of Bitcoin, I guess. So to me, this is what I don't get. I don't really get where that number comes from. That's the only thing. I know, and Boomer's mentioning this in the chat, there's some beef between the ex-CEO of BitFarms and the company. And it's like this kind of young and the restless drama that's playing out behind the scenes with a little bit of a glimpse into what's going on through stuff like this. From a centralization standpoint, though, Len, as far as I'm concerned, yeah, it's bad. Of course. How many times have you and I

talked about this? We disagree on a bunch of stuff when it comes to mining, like out-of-band transactions and what miners should allow and whether ocean's a good idea or a sustainable business model. But we agree on this 100%. If we keep allowing industrial miners to grow and grow and grow through M&A and grow and grow and grow in terms of government, let's call it like inverse regulatory capture, where regulators capture these miners, it's not good for Bitcoin.

It is not good. And I like that some podcasts that I listened to, TFTC, for example, I think he had somebody on like two weeks ago. I can't remember who, but like talking about some of the stuff that you and me have been saying for the better part of a year about how the thing to look at is not how miners are suddenly, you know, growing, they're deploying hardware. They're, they're intertwined with local regulators. They're deploying hardware. They're intertwined with local regulators. They're working at the state level to influence. No, man. What you should be looking at is how much they're relying on regulators to stay in business. And if you keep taking smaller fish out of the water, if the food chain keeps on narrowing, then you're going to have problems because the

targets are easier to take care of. And Bitfarms, we like Bitfarms. Ben Gagnon's been on the show a few times. And Riot, obviously, Pierre Rochard's been on the show. He's hilarious. If everything goes sideways in Bitcoin mining, you and me, or in Bitcoin, I should say, you and me would be out of a job for sure. But Pierre can start a career in stand- comedy. I'm pretty, pretty confident about

that. So I don't know. I don't think that anyone is taking this seriously enough. I know there's some commentary, like I said, in some podcasts and on Twitter, but, um, it sounds like you and me agree that this is, uh, it's getting into dicey territory because now what do you have? You have Mara marathon or whatever, whatever mara mara riot slash bit farms hot spark is another one huge one iron uh there's a few publicly traded miners that are that are not many but not many and then when you and then when you you know boil down to the pool level on top of that like you know it's not that many you see you got all these miners you know unless i shouldn't say all these miners i don't want to you know sound the alarm

here or be someone who's like you know screaming bloody murder the sky is falling it's not a chicken little type story yet but when you think about the proxy mining pools all just going to ant you know allegedly uh the miners centralize it through M&A. And also, honestly, then through geography, which people are not talking about enough, if you ask me. Like, miners are all sort of migrating operations or opening operations in quote-unquote free states. Like, it's easier to take somebody out if you just have to deal with one local government,

one local set of policymakers. And it's a little worrying to me for sure but like what does it right like does it matter to you long term it doesn't change it doesn't change my conviction it's just it's annoying that people can't see the obvious problem here and again it makes me wonder you know where are the priorities here i would love to hear i would love to hear how pierre rochard thinks about this because come on you're gonna you're gonna get a slanted highest you know you're not i know i think i think honestly if you ask him he may say that it's bad for centralization my curiosity is how would he how would he square

the circle you know does he or or would he square would he just say yeah you know i wish right wouldn't do this but the shareholders are demanding it or whatever like that's a whole other story i think pierre's a square dealer you may actually say that well see and like i said this is heading in the wrong direction but i the next story is going to kind of help solidify that it really isn't that bad so before you even go there two two dollars and 30 cents is what they're going to be buying they're offering to buy bit farms joy when is the when was the last time BitFarms was at $2.30 USD? Take a guess. Today.

What month? Today. Decides today. Well, I have the chart up, so I'm cheating here. Higher than $2.30? Jeez, I don't know. Let's see. $2.49 in March of this year.

We're talking you're in borderline winter still so the fact that it actually was winter uh they're offering 230 that was a price higher than what it was for the past well the offer was made in april right so in april you know the price was between 223 and two no no i see in 173 yeah so that was it's it's a it's a fair offer number one number two riot is 9.5 percent owner of bitfarm's outstanding shares so they're the largest shareholder right now of bitfarm so not like this has came out of nowhere they've been this has been a strategic move for there for quite some time yeah so is it a step in the right right direction probably not but it's not as bad as i think it is or we think it may be because if you look at number one the network wide hash rate there has been a significant drop off after

the having as i suspect this is my, older and inefficient equipment were unplugged, was unplugged after the halving. But if you look at the past couple of weeks, you're going to see that we're back on the rise in terms of overall hash rate. Next difficulty adjustment is going to take us up another notch of 1.5 to 2%. And two weeks ago, we had another notch up. So this has been steady for the past few weeks, there's more equipment being added on to the equipment to the network. So makes me wonder if companies that are specialized and specifically mining Bitcoin stuff like BitFarms, for instance, they're taking a hit as the expense of mining goes up. But companies or countries out there

that have access to previously stranded energy, they're simply starting to monetize this. We've mentioned a few stories, Bhutan, Ethiopia, Kenya, El Salvador, Argentina, Oman, Qatar. And these are just a few that I've remembered that they have announced that they started mining Bitcoin or could be a bunch of others russia who the heck knows so how many other countries out

there are doing the same they're mining bitcoin because the hash rate is going up somebody or something is plugging in a lot of equipment to make the hash rate go up also oil and gas companies too they may also be taking advantage of it so with with that being said, they may start amalgamating some of these big, big publicly traded miners, but hash rate goes up. Somebody's mining, somebody's plugging in equipment. So it may be more centralized in a publicly traded sphere,

but overall, I think it's still very much decentralized. You think, yeah, I'm not sure I share your conviction there, but I understand where you're coming from. I think what we where all of them are. That's good. But then I see the M&A stuff, the major miners, the ones who really, by the way, influence policy around Bitcoin in the United States or are influenced by the United States government in terms of policy. I see them getting closer together and closer to government.

That worries me. The thing that's going to break us out of this, Len, is a country announcing they're mining Bitcoin and not you know the kingdom of bhutan or whatever like a g20 nation announcing they're bringing online some kind of bitcoin mining um or or a major oil producing nation announcing they're bringing online some kind of bitcoin mining that's going to be the one whatever whatever like that's i don't think it's enough i don't know do you think it's enough no uh it's never going to be enough but are you going to ever hear at least at this particular moment it's i think it's inevitable

we will hear but i don't think we'll hear for the next while you're here a canada it'll never happen here we just don't have the i mean the foresight never say never it it may have maybe i mean if pierre surprises but i don't think the trudeau government is going to be able to do it mostly because they're tied up with all these other priorities right like even if even if the trudeau government wanted to it just seems unlikely and i think a lot of governments around the world don't necessarily it's not that they don't like bitcoin it's that something has to give in terms of their policy platform and in an election cycle the risk reward for announcing you're going to put you know bitcoin miners online it doesn't make sense so i don't expect to see it in the next

year or two but yeah i think it's much longer than that yeah yeah five ten five ten years and maybe yeah yeah yeah five ten years something like that you might start seeing um whispers but it's inevitable you'll see like it is inevitable it is inevitable and that will that will be the thing that moves us out of the centralization sort of rut that we're in now. Right. I think on the chart, right, if I look at centralization, you know, it is chopping, but I think it's on a downward trajectory. Like it's becoming more centralized than it should be. And I think a lot of people are seeing this. The other thing too,

to consider Len is when you get all these guys who are acting only in terms of fiat interests, you're going to get more out of band transactions and that's bad too. You're going to get more people trying to enrich themselves with tricky accounting on the financial side. And the other thing to consider too is the miners, like when you look at the miners, they're net sellers of Bitcoin by default, right? And so what you want is diversity in the times these miners are selling, I think a little bit. And if everyone is operating on the same plane and using the same math to figure out when to sell, you're going to get a lot of pressure at these local tops. And they're not going to wait till the bear market

to be for sellers anymore. I think they've learned that lesson. And that's why I think one thing we always talk about, and Zero Hedge speaks about this all the time, how Bitcoin's rallies get stomped down by selling in the futures market. But I think the other thing to consider is that miners are, as you mentioned, they're hurting for cash now for the next little while while the halving finds its footing. And these guys are going to be selling tops all the time. They're going to be selling tops all the time.

We just finished a quarter. So let's see in the next reporting period what these guys say about whether or not they sold at the 74,000 high or 73,000 high. What's your guess? My guess is that a bunch of them sold a bunch of Bitcoin at those highs and they did it because that's the rational thing to do. And maybe they also did it because that's what the shareholders wanted. And so when you put all this together, you get these guys doing things that are net negative for the price. And I think net negative for the hash rate, maybe not in absolute terms of the power of the network, but it's not the same. It's not as valuable a number if it's all coming from four miners in two states in america you know like it's just not it's i that's i i firmly believe that that's a it's a miss you

know at some point we'll my prediction here is that at some point we'll start talking about as a misleading statistic because it can't it's going up forever sure but like is it really going up if if it's just coming from the same five companies in the same two states in the same country? But it isn't that, Joey. The publicly traded miners, last time they changed, they made up about one third at most of the overall hash rate. Yeah. So based on that, Texas maybe makes up half of the overall hash rate, sorry, of the overall hash rate from the publicly traded miners.

That's really not that like it's, it is a lot. That's a lot. It is. But if you're talking about all the other ones, and I think it's becoming more and more prevalent that they are becoming bigger players. Look, I'll say this too, because I don't want to miss this point. All Bitcoin miners, or just about all of them, maybe a few aren't, but I think 99% are fiat-driven.

That's what they're there for. For sure. That's what they're there for. They're there to make a buck. So they're trading in their work for some money. It's their legal responsibility to make a buck. And I'm fine with that. I respect that.

That's where they operate. Now, in terms of being solely a bitcoin miner i i think this is going to be something that is eventually going to disappear there are probably always selling i don't think they're selling just the tops i think they're always selling because they have to pay for expenses so they're selling if the price of bitcoin is today around 70 000 and if the price of bitcoin is 50 000 tomorrow they'll be selling it at that time too because they have expenses to pay and they can't wait another month to pay that or else they'll shut off. So there's always a constant sell.

But if they're only mining Bitcoin, they are wholly reliant on the price of Bitcoin to make ends meet. And if the price of Bitcoin goes up, good. If the price of Bitcoin goes down, bad for them. So other companies like oil and gas, for instance, or even countries that start doing this, this will be a division of the overall company. So if things go well in that division, the company as a whole benefits. If the things go poorly within that division, the company as a whole doesn't benefit, but there's other things that could help them usher them through this tough time. So through tough tough times they'll be able to deal with it like i'm looking at oil and gas particularly and if you know if you have somebody

i think it was boom dust mentioning exxon imagine they got into this and they probably are but they do it on a bigger scale if the price of bitcoin goes down does it really impact exxon's bottom line in the end no not really no but the price the price of Bitcoin, does it really impact? No. It's just part of their overall, their company, the makeup of their company. And that's where it's probably going to be moving, going forward.

These specific companies that mine Bitcoin, eventually, they're not operating on a net gain. They're all operating on a net loss. How could you sustain this forever? Yeah. The piggy bank of selling more shares to, eventually that runs dry you can dilute dilute this this ends eventually this my prediction those companies are going to eventually go tits up unless they somehow have other things to keep

them going other ventures but specifically bitcoin mining i don't think that's going to be maybe four or five years maybe 10 years but long term you're that you're almost there the other venture isn't data centers or anything else the other venture is the government propping them up and and the they they become sort of nationalized i think that's that's the rational endpoint for me it's not that they're going to start you know doing uh fucking minecraft uh level hosting or whatever like they may but the end game is you know if this thing really takes off they'll be nationalized and that there's almost no choice because unlike gold mining uh which you know is resource and labor intensive of course but you know bitcoin mining like i've said i've said this before a government running a gold mine is hard because they don't have any expertise like I've said this before, a government running a

gold mine is hard because they don't have any expertise and running a gold mine is difficult. A government running a Bitcoin mine is a lot easier. Everything's already plugged in, everything's already running. You nationalize the facility, you nationalize the power that they're using and Bob's your uncle, that's it. The party's over for you. Your day is done. And so I think that's the thing that's going to keep them up. It's not that Bitcoin mining is an unsustainable business. It's just an unsustainable private business. And as we know, there's many unsustainable public businesses that, you know, it's an

oxymoron, I guess, in its own right. But many unsustainable public endeavors that are kept running and kept operational because they benefit the jurisdiction in which they operate or the people benefit from it. And in this case, I think the answer kind of contains both those points. And so that's the thing that also worries me, that it's not just about the relationship and the cozying up and the centralization of power. It's that it's a nationalization target, I think. I think that's a rational step, in my opinion, that they would do this.

I think QTR points out in a couple of his articles that they actually nationalized gold miners in the past or tried to or talked about it. And probably they stopped because it's not palatable. But I don't know, man.

People who don't have Bitcoin hate Bitcoin. Governments who can't tax Bitcoin hate Bitcoin. And I've said this many times that the number of people who will vote for this stuff is growing by the day. And so at the slave suggestion box, as our buddy Ragnar likes to say, it's easy to conceive a world where everybody votes to nationalize Bitcoin miners or for a party that wants to nationalize Bitcoin mining or whatever. I think the point is, you and me may disagree on sort of the fringe here, the outside strike zone here. But at the end of the day, we both agree that

all this stuff is possible and preparing for it is important if you're a Bitcoiner. And so how do you prepare for it? I think Boomer said in the chat, he sold all his mining stocks. I don't know. Is that a good idea? Maybe. Is it a good idea to buy mining stocks knowing that the government's going to prop it up? Maybe. Or do you just buy Bitcoin and sit quietly in your basement like Len and I and wait for the meteor to hit. Maybe that's the answer. I'm not sure. But there's a lot of things that are possible here. Trip Ace is in the chat talking about nationalizing Bitcoin mining and paying UBI. Maybe. I don't know.

Who knows? Nothing is off the table. We've seen crazy stuff happen in the last few years. And I expect the craziness to continue, quite honestly. I think betting against the craziness at this point is the wrong bet. The only thing you can do in my opinion

could be wrong. Buy Bitcoin. Who cares about the craziness? Stack your sats. If it ain't Bitcoin, you can't live in it what the fuck you're doing buying it yeah you go along the craziness i think right that's the uh yeah you do it by buying bitcoin i don't think that's yeah i think that's true not financial advice of course as i mentioned many other times yeah two more stories we're kind of up against

closing in an hour i want to get you in similar scientific inc they made some waves this past week because uh well they bought some bitcoin they're they're okay they're publicly traded company they bought or they announced they bought bitcoin on may 28th this past week they're listed on the nasdaq under the ticker smlr take a look at it if you want so these guys they followed in the cbp footsteps also MSTR, added Bitcoin to their treasuries. Good for them. They bought 581 Bitcoin. This was for an aggregate amount of $40 million

from what I have here. I didn't confirm this, but this is from the article. For those asking what Semler Scientific does, according to their website, they are a pioneer in developing and marketing technology products and services to healthcare providers to combat chronic diseases. This is pretty far away from Bitcoin.

Nothing to do with Bitcoin. So is MSTR though? You could kind of make an argument because they are a technology company. There is the slightest of overlap. The slightest. This being providing services to healthcare providers to combat chronic diseases, there's zero overlap. You might as well be on the other side of the spectrum. But they must have been orange-pilled hard because they bought some Bitcoin.

And without any more news, the only thing I could find from similar scientific was that they bought Bitcoin. Their stock price jumped from around $23.50 to around $31 when it was announced. It's since has settled to around $29. I don't know if it's gone up today, but it was $29 on the weekend. Still a nice gain for those who played the market. And I just want to drive home the point that investors or traders or both seem

to like this type of news buying bitcoin and you know it seems like a good method to temporarily pump the price of a company this can only last can only last so long because i would expect investors to punish the company the price if the bitcoin uh you know price of bitcoin drops hard then the price of this company obviously is going to drop hard look at mstr as an example of how volatile it goes as per the price of bitcoin so if this is something that works as long as bitcoin goes up when price of bitcoin goes down this is really going to hurt them so but what i'm looking at here there are a lot of zombie companies out there, a ton. And how much longer before a bunch of them start following suit here and make an announcement that they too have bought Bitcoin?

I suspect there's going to be a lot of shadiness to come around alongside it. Because if there's going to be a potential short-term pump you got kind of figure what's going to happen but either way investors seem to like this and i think they're going to potentially start demanding companies to do this yeah if they see that there's examples here and i got another one in next story of buying bitcoin pumping up the price why wouldn't investors want this they want to get the maximum gain from their investment. Is this good long-term for an investment? I'm not going to say, but short-term seems to work. Yeah. I like it. I think it's a great idea.

The Bitcoin strategy, Bitcoin on the balance sheet for miners doesn't make sense because you're for selling, right? You're not really a cash flowing business in the same way that similar medical or MSTR or meta planet or whatever, you know, company X, Y, Z is cash flowing and is able to deploy some of that, um, some of that free cashflow into Bitcoin every quarter, every month, whatever. To me, like it's, it's hard, it's hard for me to understand how all these companies talk about in their quarterly reports, their quarterly conference calls, we were affected by inflation. That should be a word. That's a great term, by the way. Inflation. I love that. Inflation and debasement, basically. They don't say debasement, but they do say all the time currency headwinds, which is

just debasing the dollar. And they talk about this all the time. And some of the questions from financial media in the conference calls are pretty competently articulated about, why aren't you guys doing buybacks, which is the strategy everyone used to use, right? You have cash. It's a melting ice cube as our buddy Simone likes to say. And you can't really sit on it. You should do buybacks. Apple just did like a hundred billion dollar buyback last quarter, something completely insane because there's just nowhere to spend the money, right? If you're a company like Apple size, you're not going to acquire a smaller company because let's face it,

unless someone is competing with you and on your corner, you don't need to waste your money on inferior product, inferior staff, inferior culture, whatever. If you're a company like similar, you don't have enough money to acquire a company that's on your corner or whatever. So what do you do in either case? In my opinion, the answer is you buy a little Bitcoin or you don't have enough money to acquire a company that's on your corner or whatever. So what do you do in either case? In my opinion, the answer is you buy a little Bitcoin and you indicate to people that you're thinking about these things and you articulate in a manner that Wall Street appreciates because they all agree on the problem. You articulate in a manner that Wall Street appreciates and say, look, we have two choices. Either we buy back the stock, which is not really good for the company.

It's good for the shareholders, but it's not good for the company long term. Or we buy an appreciating asset, watch the value of the company go up thanks to the change in regulations around how we can report on this stuff. And we see where that takes us in two years or three years. And we embrace the network and we help build the network just by offering our implicit support. I think this is going to pick up because the other thing too, Len, that you didn't even mention, these companies can all just issue shares and buy.

That's the other thing that people don't get. It's oftentimes- It's an ATM, right? It's under-discussed, right? It's not just an active market. It's a bank. It's under-discussed, right? It's not just an active market. It's a bank. It's under-discussed. MSTR does share issuance, but they also do convertible bonds.

And these companies are a little smaller than MSTR. Like Sembler's tiny, tiny, tiny, which I think is part of the reason why the stock rips so hard. But doing this kind of stuff is going to become the move. It is a speculative attack on the currency. I'm going to issue debt or stock or whatever and buy harder assets. Everyone does this anyways. This is the thing I don't think people get. We kind of laugh about this.

Is it a good strategy? Is it not a good strategy? It is a good strategy. Not everyone buys Bitcoin with the stuff they issue, right? But I mean, look at the BRRRR method in real estate. Everyone just takes out loans and equity loans over and over and over again to buy the hard assets and just ride the value of the hard asset and do it again and again and again, because the debt is the asset in that environment.

And that is the asset in this environment as well. You know, who gives a shit what these guys make? I don't know if they make cafeteria trays or microscopes. It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that they have some kind of vision here as to what the company could be if they start investing in a hard asset for their treasury and they're doing it. So kudos to them. It's probably easier to do in a company that size. I appreciate that, but I think it's going to become the playbook more and more frequently here. 100%. It's not buying ETF, it's buying a become the playbook more and more frequently 100 forward yeah not not it's not buying etf it's buying a spot and i've been saying this all along companies

could do this and companies are doing this another one meta planet it's a company i said we shouldn't commit its name to memory i was fucking wrong yeah proven wrong on this one because they announced they bought more bitcoin this time around they bought an additional 250 million yen worth of Bitcoin. That's around 1.5 million USD. They're on it, man. They're on board. They are a significant treasury holder of Bitcoin now. Did you see their stock price, Joey? Or I could give you numbers. Tell me, what is it? Yeah, I haven't seen it. So before the announcement was made in April that they started buying Bitcoin, they were trading at around 20 yen per share. I'm not sure what that translates to in the us that translates to one bag

of skittles per share okay so one bag so now it's three bags of skittles because it's 60 yen per share so it's three x'd since this announcement they first bought bitcoin i think they've made two additional purchases since april so from what i could tell there's no other news aside from buying bitcoin that was announced so all this run-up was all just because they bought bitcoin and investors like the fact that companies are adding bitcoin to their treasury yeah also of note they are reducing exposure to the yen because they are a japanese company and the yen particularly lost 40 percent of its value against the u the us dollar in a little over two years and if you throw in how much value the us dollar has lost in the last two years and change

this really goes to show you how bad the yen is performing so but back to meta planet again i'm going to say i wonder how much longer before even japanese publicly traded companies start doing the same thing because the yen is not lighting the world on fire. Today, it's not trading. It's been flat today. But the past month, it hasn't been good. The past few years, it hasn't been good. Eventually, when you have companies do this, buy a little bit Bitcoin here, buy a little bit Bitcoin there.

That's going to add to the supply shock that is eventually coming down the road. It may not come next year. It may not come in five years. But all this shit adds up. 60 days from now, right it's usually uh 100 days from the halving we're at about 40 right now i think i can't remember exactly how many but we're it's getting you're gonna start to see the effects that having soon and you're right this is going to contribute to it yeah you're gonna have beside from the etfs which i don't talk fondly, but they are purchasing Bitcoin. It takes away from the supply that is available on exchanges.

Theoretically, I don't think it's ever going to get to this scenario, but theoretically, all exchanges have zero under balance sheet that they could sell. Where do they buy from? If somebody wants to buy Bitcoin, who the fuck do they buy from? CBP. They call us for an OTC deal. They call our corporate number, which we don't have. But they'll get hold of us somehow. That is a very theoretical situation and probably will never come to pass.

But there is going to be some semblance of reality there because eventually exchanges are going to have very little in their balance sheet. What happens then? What happens when somebody comes in and says, I want x amount and there's not x that could be available the price goes that's gonna be yeah so that's very bullish for bitcoin i agree but to go back to meta planet league this stuff that they're doing and what samler's doing other companies are going to do this i've been fucking saying this for a while it may be hard to do but this is the right way of doing business buy bitcoin it's fuck it if micro strategy could do it if el salvador could do it i'm not trying to shit in el salvador

but el salvador we got to get sb on here because i think the disagreement you guys have in our group chat is uh is that it's it's the degree of which it should be easy to carry something like this out for like a uh i don't know what's a good example i think the one that you guys often disagree on are these um endowments right and can an endowment buy spot bitcoin instead of the etf can you know can a bank or a financial institution or a hedge fund buy spot instead of the etf can you know can a bank or a financial institution or a hedge fund buy spot instead of the etf they can't your position is that they can't hold it but they could buy yeah your position is that they can and and can you know hold it themselves as well i think and uh yeah you know you're not i don't think you're vindicated yet i still think you're

more wrong than right but all roads lead to land. Keep doing it. It will just take time. All roads lead to land. See, what I say is, I understand there may be a problem of buying it convincing the board and shareholders. The way I look at it, if you're buying an ETF

that is directly tied to the price of Bitcoin, that exact same value could be used to buy spot Bitcoin and a piece or not piss off investors and the directors because you bought you're essentially buying the same thing it's just who holds it is a difference so with respect to that if a bank can hold our money if i go to a bank and give them my money to hold on for me motherfucker they could hold on to bitcoin yeah that's that's a no-brainer. So that's not even a discussion to be had. Endowments, maybe. Maybe they're not legally able to do this.

I want to look at. I mean, the laws. We got to find out. We got to put it in touch with land accounting services. In terms of publicly traded companies, we have every week, it seems, another story. Yeah, there's a few. And who knows who's next coming up that's going to do this. Are they domiciled in the United states either of these companies they're not

right meta planet is traded on whatever the job is it domiciled here though is what i'm asking oh no idea okay that's that's important too like there's a lot of you know barriers entries we've seen in this i know one thing though el salvador i i i said something about them i don't want to shit on them i just want to say they are in the grand scheme of things very small yes companies like apple fucking dwarf them california dwarfs them many times over so but i want to say if they can do it and they don't have access to the same type of resources that these other companies can do it right it's possible i'm not saying it's repatriated they repatriated their bitcoin it used to be held i think by coinbase yeah there was some u.s company that had i don't know what the fuck at it i love the idea of repatriating bitcoin as if it's like coming over on a you know carrier ship yeah it's a

transaction or they just they just toss down a cold cart and buddy puts no that's what it is it's a cold car his lulu lemon sling pouch he just comes over with the cold car could you imagine that'd be so good and everything let's go on to uh noble stories before we get carried away here uh thanks for tuning it was great i really enjoyed that one thanks for tuning in everyone come back for tomorrow if you're on audio if you're on video or on Twitter spaces since like you know there's a hundred or so of you there instead of on video

I realize that Twitter spaces is cannibalizing YouTube because YouTube you can't just listen and do something else on your phone unless you pay for premium but on Twitter you can listen and do something else on your phone this is the key killer app so this is why we have to find out how we monetize twitter spaces anyway okay so anyway uh yeah otherwise we'll uh see you tomorrow but if you're with us right now live on twitter or

youtube stick around we're uh we're hopping in the next segment yeah don't be a cock are you a fan of the old school nhL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast, from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.