The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #167 (Bitcoin News Stories) - Cuts vs Collapse, Bitcoin Treasury Plays, Sentiment Shift

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Semler buys more corn (CBP does it too!) -CoreWeave’s attempt to buy Core Scientific -Email breach hits several exchanges -RobinHood buys BitStamp -Self-immolation to pump a meme coin -Fees temporarily jump thanks to consolidation of UTXOs and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase ⁠⁠ Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, welcome to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast here on the CBP Media Network. My name is Joey. That is Len. Nothing we say is financial advice.

We're both morons. What's going on? How are you today? I am good, Joey. A little cold for this junior area but other than that it's not too shabby i'm just shocked at how like you know i want to be sunning my balls i don't want to be freezing them but what uh what i have an option like these days it is what it is um the climate is changing it sure is it sure is yeah i guess so yeah over here

things are uh pretty tame. Busy day at work today. We were just talking about some work stuff before we got on here. It's continuing to, you know, every day is a challenge, Len. That's all you can ask for in a job, that you have meaningful work and you're always engaged in the things that you're doing and doing it with people you like. So I really have nothing to complain about.

But anyway, man, busy week this week or what? What do we got going on in the podcast this week? Someone asked me, I should, before we start here, say that I was on with the Bitcoin mentor spaces group for a bit in the afternoon today, talking Bitcoin and talking custody, talking things that we're seeing up here in Canada, taking some questions about real estate and immigration and the rate cut and all these different things that bitcoiners are keen to talk about very happy to talk about with people who are not um not up here in the great white north so show to those guys but they were asking me then who we have on the interview this week and i forgot to tell them so our gnome ah okay he's a nim ah r and m okay great wellNM. Okay, great. We'll talk more about that.

I'm getting out of sorts here. We're out of order already. Let's see the sponsors. EasyDNS, best place for you to buy a domain, not Bitcoin. We have another sponsor for that. But you can buy a domain, port a domain if you own one already, and get Mark and the team to help you build a website. They got other stuff too.

Virtual private server, suite of options there. Email, PGP and GPG. I bet you didn't know there was both. There is. So whether you want to do website, run a Bitcoin node, Nostra Relay, Shopify, BTC pay server, whatever, man. Mark will help you do it. We do the communitybitcoiners.com website there.

We post there every week. Len does a great job wrapping up the stuff. I used to do a decent job writing research reports. I haven't done that in like a month and a half. And otherwise, I would say that you could also count on Mark to never bug you about taking down your stuff, which is important. We'll talk more about that actually tonight if I had to guess because there's a lot of stuff going on in the Canadian landscape that I don't know if it's alarming but I think a lot of people are going to want to talk about it and I think there's going to be

some parties who don't want the public to be discussing it. If I had to guess I would say that's probably going to be the case. Anyway, without getting myself into too much more trouble here, go over to EasyDNS.com use the promo code CBPMedia and get 50% off your first round of buys is that what it is

pretty sure right yeah it's 50 off your initial purchase so if you have a big initial purchase from what i gather then it's all gonna be 50 off pretty good can't beat it might as well do a big order but second sponsor is bull bitcoin and i'm you know what i don't even know the price of bitcoin is showing me the uh well 69 000 right i think i haven't followed it for a little bit and so then it's a good time to buy good time to sell depending on how you're looking at it i think it's a discount not financial advice doing your own research all that jazz but still you have the option with bull bitcoin to buy and sell on chain and lightning i know that the fees picked up considerably this past week but dropped just quick as they picked up so buying on chain and lightning. I know that the fees picked up considerably this past week, but dropped just as quick as they picked up.

So buying on chain is still definitely an option, but if you want to explore something else you could do with lightning. So you could do quick, cheap transactions with lightning. I wouldn't recommend it now, but if you want to try it, the options there for you, but other things you could do with bull Bitcoin,

you could buy your gift card. So you think you want to go golf town. You to go to starbucks home depot whatever you can buy your gift cards with bitcoin so you know that's one cool thing so you're kind of spending your bitcoin in the real world and kind of living on a bitcoin standard like that well indirectly but still you have the option through bull bitcoin to buy those gift cards and start spending your bitcoin indirectly you could also pay your bills with Bitcoin. So you have a Visa bill, you have a car bill, whatever. You could pay

that with your Bitcoin. $69,000 is the price of Bitcoin if it ever shows up in my block clock. So, you know, maybe it's a good time to start selling it and using that to pay some of your high bills right now. You know, it's still a high interest rate environment. If you're carrying a Visa MasterCard, whatever, maybe you want to pay that with your Bitcoin. You could do that. So so open an account if you haven't done so do it use our promo code and

if you do that fund your account and give all the necessary information 21 bucks will be added to your account and you're good to go non-custodial exchange they're they're i'm gonna say effing often that's i'll leave it yeah they are they're bull bull's got a great team francis and the boys there we talk to the guys every day. I'll tell you without getting into what is said in our group chat, you never have to worry about whether or not these guys are based. There's based as they come. So,

uh, Len, without further ado, boosts, what do you want to do? Where do you, where do you want to go here? We've already talked about the interview this week.

You got a name. I didn't really talk much of him. The, is he's a nim but he's been around this space for a long time very opinionated he is leaning left too so not many bitcoiners lean towards the left but he is one so he's going to come with a very different approach and uh very opinionated love to chat with him he has a lot of knowledge a very different approach and very opinionated. Love to chat with him. He has a lot of knowledge with many different things, many technicals with Bitcoin. So if anybody has any questions, Joey, you're going to want to listen to this because, you know, he's I've talked with him a few times. And he is the moderator of the Bitcoin Discord channel.

And he was the moderator of the Bitcoin subreddit, I think. Okay. So this guy is not a no name guy. That's a pretty, you buried the lead there. He's a discord, Bitcoin discord moderator. Okay. So he's, uh, yeah, he's been around. That's great.

He has. And I can't stress enough. The knowledge that he possesses is immense. You bring a question to him about something and he'll be able to provide you a very detailed and knowledgeable answer i'm stoked to have him on he hasn't done the podcasting circuit yet we are the first one he's coming on so i'm looking forward to this and to popping his podcast cherry and we'll go from there so that's number one number two uh before i go to boost i just want to say really quick thank you to the people i met from rockstar realtor uh real estate

vent this was um back in april i met a few people joy and a bunch of our friends and i ended up teaching them how to buy bitcoin and how to set up a cold car so thank you for that it was an awesome process it's good to be amongst people that are new Bitcoiners teaching the process. There's a lot of people that are Bitcoiners. You're just not aware of it just yet. Pre-coiners. Pre-coiners. Yeah.

They're pre-coiners. Exactly that. So I want to just say a big thank you to them. Boosts. I'll say some boosts. And then Owen too. He says, everything will be okay. And he gives like a cringy face after that. So do you mean it? What am I supposed to take from that? I don't know. Everything will be okay and he gives like a cringy face after that so do you mean it what

am i supposed to take from that i don't know everything may be okay i don't know anyways teats uh 500 sats oh sorry owen did 121 sats i forgot good luck teats 500 sats do i have more sats than yesterday yeah okay we good it's the sentiment i have you know if you have morning yesterday it's a okay man it's a okay so we're gonna btc dick 500 sats uh i love that you guys are doing spaces now i think this is just a part of the package we have with stream yard i think it just automatically does it either way yeah stream yard oh sorry finish and then i'll go into that a bit oh he says the more places to consume the p the cb the better. And he does hashtag all roads lead to Len. A hundred percent. They do may take time, but they will eventually lead there. Listen, if anyone ever says that CBP is only in it for the money. Okay. I got news for

you. I'm giving away like a decent chunk of change, not monetizing the spaces, views, and listens. And I don't care. I care more that we are getting our names out there, getting the message out there. And the people are finding out about how all roads lead to Len as many different ways as possible. Plus, remember Len, Twitter never used to do video spaces. Now they do. I didn't know that. So I found that out like a few weeks back. Someone told me that they actually, you can, like I said to you before, I think I said this to you on air. I may not have, but one of the things that i like about twitter space is compared to youtube you can pin a twitter spaces video at least on iphone like to your media player or whatever and then do other

stuff on your phone on youtube you can't do that it's a it's a good feature it's a good it's a good way to watch i don't blame people for that yeah you could do that now you gotta say you could do that with the non-premium version of twitter you could just make an account and do that yeah you could do that now you're gonna say you could do that with the non-premium version of twitter you could just make an account and do that yeah even android phones uh base phones you could do that but uh you could do that with youtube if you're a premium subscriber yes then pin it so you'd have to pay that for youtube it's a free feature with twitter slash x the only downside is i can't see the chats i can see the chats like the twitter chats on my sidebar but we can't reply to them so if you say something to us it's not that

i can't see it it's just that i can't type back so anyway yeah we appreciate all the eyes and ears we get you know you guys know that i don't have to tell you again so we got a tweet too i'm going to just add this to the the boosts because I have room here and I just want to bring it up. OPI writes to us. He says, your segment on El Salvador in episode 166 about only El Zate adopting Bitcoin is not correct. He says, EZ has 90% adoption, but there are many businesses in San Salvador that accept Bitcoin. He also says, Berlin also has a circular BTC economy it's only been one year from 0 to 120 stores. He also says, how could El Salvador rug Bitcoin?

Even if the next president makes Bitcoin illegal, people will still use it as it will be nine years in. Also says, check out MyFirstBitcoin and BitcoinBerlinSV on Twitter. Now, I guess I just want to reply to that. I think you want to reply to that as well.

I'm not talking about the people themselves. Stop using it. Bitcoin is permissionless. You could have any entity, any body, any authoritative figure say you can't use it. You'll transact in it. There's no way to stop that. It's just the businesses that have moved there. And I think if there's a change in shift in how the narrative with Bitcoin is right now,

if they are more against it, it could impact the businesses that have already moved there. I'm looking at Stripe, for instance, being one of them, but there's also others. So that's where I could see a potential rug. I'm not sure if you want to add anything to that and put your own flavor to it. No, I'm with you. Maybe we were just not clear.

Like Bitcoin, I mean, think about how Bitcoin is in Canada. It's basically everything but illegal. Like, you know, like you're supposed to get taxed every time you send, you can't sell. You know what I mean? It's not illegal, illegal. You're supposed to get taxed every time you send. It's a commodity. You know what I mean? It's not illegal. It's just a commodity. I know, but the incentives are all there for you to not use it.

People still use it anyway. El Salvador is way deeper into this than we are here in Canada. It'll continue to be used. It may be a little less friendly on the government side, and the businesses, like you mentioned, might run into a bit of a difficult time. But no, I don't think they're going to rug Bitcoin in El Salvador. It's way past that now. Maybe we just weren't clear.

We were probably rambling and rumbling downhill anyways during that segment. I remember we were going back and forth. So yeah. How come you didn't say anything about our thoughts about the succession plan? I'd be curious. This guy seems to know a or seems to know uh a bit about uh the el salvador kind of bitcoin economy and bitcoin story i'd be curious if he's got any insights on the succession plans we need to get this opi guy right back opi do it send us a tweet

we got some summertime uh interview gaps joey i'm not sure if you have anything else you want to check off your box of things. Um, I don't think so. Do you have anything else? No, man, I'm ready. There's going to be so much to talk about. Yeah, let's go. Let's get into it.

We got a lot to talk about. We were short on time last week. Let's not do it again. No, we'll be this will be a four hour episode. First one really fucking quick. I don't want to get into this one too much, but maybe you have some something you want to say because Tucker and Swan Bitcoin, they seem to to have um well there's an agreement between them swan is now going to be sponsoring his show i don't have anything else they're just sponsoring a tour

they're not sponsoring a show just a tour he's going on even better either way it's in you know i'm looking at this swan being bitcoin only i it's one way to help push the Bitcoin narrative and push that in front of other people. I don't think Tucker is going to be shitting on Bitcoin in any way, shape or form. I like this. I don't see anything wrong with it. How they paid for this, how much money is, I have no idea how much money was exchanged for this one, but it's a pretty big get and it's going to elevate Swan in terms of getting more eyeballs on their product so i'm not sure what else you want to add to that i don't have anything else really okay i i should have prepared better for this but i just remembered that uh midday cory sent

out a tweet storm actually about this sponsorship deal and i want to see right here so it's actually pinned it didn't say very much though. I thought it was just a fluff. Yeah, let's have a look. Spawn sponsorship of Tucker Carlson's live tour is a massive opportunity to discuss Bitcoin, blah, blah. As a former broadcast journalist, longtime media exec and investor, I'm impressed with Tucker's change and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm with you. It's a better sponsor. See, the other sponsor is some kind of like no-name sleep cough syrup or something like that.

I have no opinion of that. I have zero opinion of that. I'm not pro or against it. It is ho-hum. We're going to find out that both Swan and this allergy medication are sponsored by Tether. Paul Ardino is sponsoring both of them.

I think people are asking and actually, I'm going a chat with Massa Capital, and we were talking about this with another friend of ours who will remain nameless for now, and we were saying that, you know, where are they getting the money for this? Like you mentioned, this has got to be a big chunk of change. And then later in the day, Brandon, Green Candle,

and yet another group chat were in saying the same thing. Where's the money coming from? It's coming from the mining. This was the thing that Odell and Corey, I don't want to say got into it, but there was some public disagreement about how exactly Swarm was coming up with these numbers and things they could invest in and money they had and treasury and whatnot. So they're taking the proceeds from the Bitcoin that they mine and using that? I think so. I think so. I mean, how else could they be doing it? Assuming that they're not making tons of money on user fees to both run the operation, pay salaries, all that stuff.

Plus now this, I figure if this is a 10 month tour, it's gotta be 10 million, right? Probably a million a month, something like that to sponsor that tour. Let's see. He does three stops, four stops, quarter mil a piece. You know, he's got Skittles in his rider. You got to buy another million worth of Skittles. I don. He had to buy another million worth of Skittles. I don't know. But I think it's got to be around there, right? It can't be less than that. Tucker is the biggest name in media on the planet. And I know people may disagree with that or start crying into their pillow and biting a wine cork, but this is just the way it is. He can get basically anyone to sponsor him and he's chosen these guys now i

think it's only really worth it if these guys can get a bitcoiner on stage with tucker because so far he's had this show for about a year now i think maybe a little less than a year he's yet to have a bitcoin guest on the talk book he was there right but he didn't talk they didn't talk about it they didn't talk about it and i'm kind of in your killer about that too, by the way. But, you know, that's a story for another time. But I need, like Len, Len. Go ahead. We got to stop parsing. Because you tell me all the time that I'm too nice to people,

too kind to give people the benefit of the doubt. This guy needs, he needs Saylor. Rogan needs Saylor. PBD has had Saylor. PBD and Tucker have spoken. It's not like he doesn't he can't get the guy's cell phone number it's not like the sailor like media team is not like banging tucker's door down of course they are what what is the hold up i don't know do you think he wants

to have a guest like that where it's just i'll tell you okay i'll tell you one pitch and you don't touch the ball again that's that's one reason they wouldn't have it. Now, I'm going to go to my tinfoil hat side, and I'm going to draw from Mark Goodwin, friend of the show, whether you like it or not. Friend of mine, anyways. Bitcoin Magazine editor-in-chief or editor. He's talked a lot about how, and actually so has Whitney Webb,

talked about how Tucker's father was basically a CIA guy. And tucker may be an intelligence guy too i don't know maybe he is maybe he isn't but man it makes a lot more sense that he doesn't want to talk about stuff to upset certain important orders in the world while he does talk about and try and upset others and maybe that currency one is a bridge too far for him. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it's coming from the mining money, Joey. I honestly don't. What do you think?

I don't know. I'm guessing it's coming from their Asian investors. Oh, whatever. I mean. Because the mining, unless they're getting power for virtually or actually free. I don't know. It's not really that profitable to mine Bitcoin.

They could not extensively profitable it it's really going to be dependent on how much cash flowing business so maybe they can maybe they keep some of the cheap bitcoin like i don't know i'm not i'm not strategy but maybe they don't even need that maybe they don't even quote unquote need new money to do this maybe they can just do it i don't like i don't know it's 10 million dollars that much money i don't know how do you just do it you have to have something to give yeah it's 10 million that is 10 million that much i don't is that i have no idea if it's i have no idea a if that's the number or b if that's you know it's something that's feasible that they could just go into their piggy bank and get

maybe both of them are true i don't know i don't have enough information to say either or but while i do not having enough information there's no excuse not to speculate publicly on your podcast let's keep i can't even reason i never put enough time or into this to come up with a knowledgeable answer i'm just going to be speaking gibberish so yeah instead of doing that i say we go to next i don't i don't know it's interesting though i'm looking forward to seeing okay before we go on uh over under 0.5 hardcore bitcoiners get on stage with tucker during this tour. How long is this tour? Like how many shows is it?

I don't know. I don't know. So it's hard for me to say. Spawn is a sponsor. Let's assume that somewhere in the deal, even if they fucking get Corey up there or Natalie Brunel up there or someone up there with Tucker. Will they get somebody up there from the Bitcoin side of the story with tucker carlson probably not if it's something that's going to expire this year probably no holy there's so many other people that they're going to want to talk to that's going to have a grander appeal a greater appeal for them plus there's it's an election

year so all the politicians they might want to talk to and think all the politicians that would want to go on a show as well so i i think bitcoiners will probably be some uh lower on the list i could be wrong again this is something i didn't put a lot of thought in and i don't even know how long this tour is going and how many shows they have so a lot of unknowns i just can't really give an answer i'll say no will you what do you think i say yes i say yes that's that's cool that's cool well let's talk about something else somebody let's talk about something else that's kind of speculation too like we're doing a lot of speculation right now um bitcoin core and somebody came out this past week saying that there is potentially a serious vulnerability

in bitcoin for bitcoin core version 24 and this is going to be disclosed in the next two weeks. So from what I understand, people that are running, at least this is all speculation, that Bitcoin version 24 or earlier, you should want to consider upgrading to at least version 25 or higher. Now, once that information came out, one of the Bitcoin developers, Ava Chow,

clarified that it's not totally correct and users using version 21 and lower should be the ones considering to upgrade to something more recent and he's not saying that or she's saying not 24 or lower should be considered as 21 and lower so it's a little bit of speculation here at least Ava Chow is a bitcoin developer didn't give a very clear answer this is all the discussion with Pletidor too. And Pletidor is a great follow on Twitter if you already haven't followed him. So I just want to say,

if you're running an older version, of course, especially older than version 21 or older, I would strongly recommend you consider upgrading to something a little more recent. Just my opinion, take a look into this. They're saying some sort of serious vulnerabilities included there and information is going to be disclosed within the next two weeks so take that for what it's worth i don't have anything definitive yet but if this is the case

um it could be something very serious especially if you're doing validation you're broadcasting um well i guess one more thing i'm mr arnon was actually saying. It's incredible that they're waiting two weeks in order to... Insane policy. Absolutely insane. That was my first comment. So I'll pass it over to you. I'm just going to leave it at that. I'll pass it back to you and ask you a question.

Since we talk about this quite often on Access of Easy, the other show that we do, and also on this show from time to time, significant vulnerability should the update to a new client uh from that client be forced somehow i so you're asking if you should upgrade regardless if there's a vulnerability yeah i'm not of the opinion you should do that i like to use an older version, not something that's extremely old, but something that's been tried, tested, and true for maybe a year or two just because of what it is trying to do. I'm trying to validate transactions.

I'm trying to look at my mempool. I'm trying to broadcast from my node. And although it's probably been tested and everything, so the latest version that's been released to the wild has been tested and given the green light to go ahead i would prefer to wait a little bit i see no harm with using something one version older or maybe two versions older and going from there so version 27.0 is the current version so maybe you use something like 25.2 which is the latest of the 25 branch and go from there but that's just my opinion there's no right or wrong go with your gut it's like is that advice go with your gut because there is no real definitive answer i'm just

curious like what does the okay like what is the vulnerability going to be? When they say, this is the other thing I don't get, especially about the disclosure policy. If the vulnerability is that significant, why are you waiting two weeks? And if you can wait two weeks, then it's not that significant. Why are you bothering making a huge stink about this? Who decided to do it this way? I don't understand this. It's bad for publicity. You allow speculation to take hold. God knows. We've talked about this way. I don't understand this. It's bad for publicity. You allow speculation to take

hold. God knows, we've talked about this too. God knows there's certain media outlets and certain institutions that are waiting, man, foaming at the mouth, talking about, oh, we got to get a negative story about Bitcoin here soon. This could be one. Oh, in two weeks, they're going to announce a huge vulnerability. You want to get your Bitcoin bitcoin sell your bitcoin before it's too late like man people don't understand the core is just a client and uh you know i don't know it's like it's like part of the equation but not it's it's frustrating to me that they've chosen to do this i'll just leave it at that and i hope i hope um noam his name is right on yeah mr r noam yeah i like i want to hear what he what he has to say about this because he's been around presumably for quite some time, as you mentioned.

And there's a lot of people who, if you're new to Bitcoin, this would definitely rattle your cage a little bit. You know what I mean? You don't want to do this if you don't have to do this. And again, two weeks means it's not that dangerous. And if it's not that dangerous then you should just you know not make a huge thing about it but there it seems to me that none of these things actually jive so whatever let them figure it out i guess what are we gonna do upgrade to something a little

bit newer how new like i said you know pick something that works for you and run with it. Just don't use anything that's version 21 or older. Slamler Scientific. Talked about them before. Let's talk about them again because they announced they're buying more corn. And remember, this is the pioneer in developing marketing technology products and services to health care providers to combat chronic diseases and so forth. So there's really not much of a connection here to Bitcoin, except for the fact that he bought another 247 Bitcoin. And he did so at the price of $17 million in cash. So in addition to the recent purchase that they made, they bought a bunch more earlier. So this is not a zombie company. They're not going going into debt they're not liquidating or selling

shares dilution it's a profitable company and they're sitting on or they were sitting on around 60 million dollars in cash so looking at that look at the price of their stock yet again it went up what other news besides buying bitcoin was there none today went up another almost 15 like you have this and we'll talk about another one in just a moment if you're sitting on a board and you see example a example b example c example d and then there's enough of these examples out there that you see there's a temporary pump in price just for buying Bitcoin. This is something we're going to have an avalanche of companies out there that are going to be doing this. Now, like I said last week, just because it's going to pump the price up doesn't mean it stays up.

As the price of Bitcoin goes down, you know, sometime it's going to go down. Yeah. And it never stays up forever. These companies are going to get hit very hard in the process but when the price goes up these companies are going to benefit greatly as a result so it's core site sorry not course i'm similar scientific not course similar scientific doing their job buying more corn that we can get we cannot get access to like i tweeted today, there's this march of micro-cap stocks to this Bitcoin treasury strategy. Now, what I was thinking about today, and I think we talked about this too,

the thing about Bitcoin, and I've said this many times, I said it framing it around the ETF and framing it around just buy $10 worth and see if you end up buying $100,000 worth over time. I don't really care whether Semler actually likes Bitcoin. It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is they have this thing in their treasury now. They've chosen to make it their treasury asset. And whether they like it or not is sort of secondary to whether or not it benefits them. You will like it if it benefits you. And clearly, like you mentioned, you've seen a couple of big updates in that stock, a stock

that was before this basically unknown micro cap, like I said, probably still micro cap, honestly, by any official measure. But the thing you have to think about here is who cares whether or not the board, like you said, is looking at the Bitcoin white paper and the decline of fiat currency, or if they're looking at micro strategy and saying, we got to get in on this party now. Because investors will support you if they think that what you're doing is smart. They don't care why you're doing it. And I think that they're going to find that as well. I hope that more companies do this. And whether it's a gateway drug to streaming Michael Saylor

clips that your investor calls or just a way for you to pump your stock price, Bitcoin, as we always say for friends and enemies. I think that even if they were enemies now, Len, even if they don't view it the same way you and I do, is this like rock solid store of value asset, they will because it's going to work for them just like works for everyone else and and that's really the best thing about bitcoin is that once you're in it's fucking hard to go back and they're we're going to find that here too the second company i mean i'm sure you'll have less good things to say about them uh no really no no i

have nothing really good to say about the business they operate. DeFi Technologies is a Toronto-based company, too. And they said they've announced today a Bitcoin treasury strategy. And so what are they, DeFi Technologies? They're a financial technology company that pioneers the convergence of traditional capital markets with the world of decentralized finance. Essentially, they're the shit coins. So anyways, they said they adopted Bitcoin as its primary treasury reserve asset, and they purchased 110 Bitcoin to initiate this strategy. And the company says they view Bitcoin's digital architecture resilience as an advantage, along with the significant value gap it holds compared to traditional assets and they believe the gap positions bitcoin for substantial returns as adoption increases so they see this as a good way to hedge their bets so what they do they're

a shitcoin company but they are buying bitcoin they're at least closer to bitcoin than say similar scientific but they see it in the exact same way that they see it as a way to you know park their money and probably get some decent gains over the long run so this is another one they're buying bitcoin it seems like now joey every week we're talking about this and every week it seems like a new one that's being announced in this. How many fucking companies are out there? A second ago, there's tons. Do you want to speculate on who might do it next? This is not financial advice.

I have no inside information. Just a hunch. Just a hunch. The next company, you may remember why I choose this company. The next company or one of the next companies you will see remember why I choose this company. The next company or one of the next companies you will cellular agriculture to reshape the global food industry, unquote. I think they might do it at some point because you know who they just brought in as CEO. We talked about this a couple weeks ago, you and I.

Not on the air. Oh, that's right. And it's actually mentioned in the chat, the company that he led very recently. Yeah, Mark Binns. Okay, so Mega Man in the chat, the company that he led very recently. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Binns. Okay. So mega man in the chat. That's right. Mark Binns was the founder and CEO of big digital assets. And Mark Binns left big some time ago and is now the, let's see, what is he? He is the capital markets advisor. Now what is the capital market, Len? That is your stock. That is your stock. And I think that Binz is going to look at some of these micro caps and he's going to say, all we have to do is buy a million dollars worth, buy $5 million worth, whatever we can handle. Let's put something on

the balance sheet. Let's put something on the treasury. Now, I would say that Bitcoiners might not be able to get over the fake meat hurdle in supporting that company, but investors might not care. I think a lot of people might say, yeah, Ben, he's got a history in the digital asset space, the Bitcoin space. We had him on this show. He cares about Bitcoin. He is a Bitcoiner, regardless of what big digital assets did while he was there in terms of other assets and what they've done since he left. He is a Bitcoiner. Believe me when I say that. And I wouldn't be surprised. I think that's a good candidate. Look at the stock price.

Pretty long downturn here. Hasn't been above $0.25, $0.26, maybe $0.30 or $0.40, actually, in actually in almost two years okay it's time to get bins on the horn that's gonna get a mark it's time to buy mark it's time to buy that's i don't think that's a bad bet honestly i'm not gonna buy any that's not a that's good speculation i think that's i think that's a pretty good bet on a company that might do it in the future lots to talk about still let's move to the next topic because okay there's people out there they like block clocks like we have one joey and but people want to buy them but they don't want to pay the price that comes along with the block clock their quality is you know extremely high it's natural yeah but there's an alternative out there that people if they want to get something a little bit cheaper, and this gentleman by the name of Bart underscore mole mol on Twitter, so Bart underscore

mol. He posted about using a Raspberry Pi Pico and something called a Pico display V2. And by meeting these two, he was able to pull the price of Bitcoin on the display. And he's pulling it from CoinGecko and Mempool. And it shows the block height, the cost per V-byte, the price of Bitcoin, and a few other things that came out today that I didn't note on my things here. But either way, it's growing in terms of the functionality. So the Raspberry Pi Pico could be had for under $10. Shipping might be a killer, but still the price of it, could be had for under 10 US dollars. Shipping might be a killer, but still the price of it, that's it. It's really cool. But the item is pretty much fuck all in terms of price. And the Pico display could be had for around 20 US dollars from the

Pico shop in the US. Again, shipping may kill the cost, but still per unit price is rather cheap. But in the end, you get one of these small usable block clock alternatives. So when you see over there and it's at a fraction of the cost, it's still crude and lacks a case. They're going through the process to create a case, but still this is really cool. So I'm not, don't know too much about the longevity of this display,

but if you want to get something a little bit cheaper, this is an option you could build yourself. I'm not sure if the code is open source, but I have a, you know, if I were to get something a little bit cheaper, this is an option you can build yourself. I'm not sure if the code is open source, but if I were to bet, I would say greater than 50% chance it is. So check it out. It's a cool project, and I like to see this. Really cheap.

Under $30. I like it. I like it a lot. I think that's pretty cool. I want, like, I like the block lock, but I would love, I'm a big sports ball guy, as you know, and as I've taken a lot I like the, the block clock, but I would love, I'm a big sports ball guy, as you know, and as I've taken a lot of shit for over the years doing this program, I would love a cool, like sports ticker that also picked up Bitcoin stats. I had paid good money for one of those things and put it right above the screen there.

And, uh, you'd be able to see it in the interview shows as the studio continues to kind of fill out and take shape here. I think, I think these are great ideas, Len. As much as I like CoinKite, obviously, I'm good friends with Dee. And I like the products. I've always used the products. But competition is good. If this guy can start selling a product that looks pretty cool and is a little more easily customizable and does a few more things, that know that's good for the space and if it's

good for the space i'm i'm for it did you see this shit pointer that did the self-immolation so yeah this is the beginning of a joke i feel like i didn't i never saw this if seinfeld did this joke i've never seen it no unfortunately this is the truth. So this jabroni developer by the name of Mikol, M-I-K-O-L, he's a Solana meme coin developer. So I'm basically describing what he does. He launched something called the Truth or Dare token. And in order to gather some publicity for this, he, well, he lit himself on fire so really look at this taking the taking token burn to a new level i guess like really it has i mean i i don't understand man like this is fucking stupid shit why would you harm yourself to the point where you probably will

never recover just to the point of for the sole purpose of pumping one of your garbage tokens this is a truly shit coinery like there's no way else to describe it but that's what it is it just is shit cornery shit cornery right from the beginning to end so yeah somebody i think boomer was the one that pointed out this story to us and wanted us to talk about it so thanks for providing that story boomer so here we are absolutely batshit insane but hey man like that you've seen some of those solana meme coins these people are not uh they're not exactly the brightest of the bunch you know i'm not surprised that it came from that crowd still not great you know i feel sorry for the guy obviously it's a you know kind of a sad story but damn damn tough what is the coin pump to do you know what the name of the coin is?

I have no idea. I have. It's Darecoin. Truth or Dare. It's called Darecoin. I have no idea what the price is. I'm not going to fucking look. I don't give a rat's ass what it is.

Let's move on. Let's move on. Robin Hood. Wait, I got it here. I got it here. All right, go ahead. Let me see. Let's pull it up.

CoinGecko has got every fucking garbage token it did if he burned himself alive june 10th that was today no that was a few days ago so maybe it also pumped on the 9th a little bit and then pumped again today today the pump was pretty good it was like i don't know what is is this? Maybe it was a sympathy pump. Yeah, it's probably like 5%, 6%. I mean, not enough of a pump to set myself on fire over it. That's for sure. Oh, man. Enough of these guys. It's a sympathy pump.

That's exactly what it is. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, let's talk about Robinhood. And they've entered into an agreement to scoop up the exchange Bitstamp. And this deal is reportedly worth around $200 million. And it's going to take another year or so to officially clear. And Bitstamp themselves claim to be the leading UK-based regulated crypto exchange. And when this news was broken, it sent the price of robinhood shares by three

percent so investors kind of liked it and what this does is give robinhood some more global reach and because bitstamp they say they have 50 active licenses and registrations globally so it looks like robinhood wants a piece of the shit coin market and takes a slice of away from say coinbase and or binance which currently has a very large section of the coin market globally but in the end this has got to be a fucking stupid person well isn't isn't it just because like we remember we talked about this like two three three years ago, long time ago, when you and me were just getting started. There was exchanges that were coming to market. And when Ontario started saying, look, if you want to operate in Ontario, you're going to need a couple of these licenses that you don't need right now and many of you don't have right now.

And I think we talked about this at that time through the lens of these bigger companies who want to operate here. They'll just buy up these little guys who've already done all the licensing work. And when we talked to Jordan Anderson from Bitbuy, I think he mentioned it too. X Bitbuy, no longer. X Bitbuy, yeah, yeah, X Bitbuy. I think he mentioned it too, that really the licenses add corporate value to your company. And this is one of the reasons. Now, the thing about Robinhood is that they're really not a company you want to be in business with or relying on. If you're going to trade this stuff, do it somewhere else. Because Robinhood has proven to you already more than once that they will nerf your ability to make money if the right people lean on them.

You saw it with GameStop. You saw it with GameStop. You saw it with AMC. Arguably, you've seen it with certain crypto tokens over the last few years. And now they have BitMEX, or BitMEX, sorry, Bitstamp under their belt. You're going to start seeing it here too. Robinhood is looking to cash in on that sweet, sweet bull market trading fee stash that all these Solana coins, Ethereum coins, whatever coins are going to give them now that they own a crypto exchange. I still don't think it's worth buying a Robinhood share,

not financial advice, but why would you want to get in bed with Vlad Tenev? He's shown you what kind of guy he is. There's way better ways to trade insane tokens like you don't need an exchange to trade some of this stuff to begin with let alone uh one like robin hood that will clearly pull the rug from underneath you when the time is just you know the worst uh for you and for the other users so i think this is just a shitty kind of you know it's a shitty it's a shitty play but maybe bitstamp was trying to get out of this, or it's the right price. Who knows, right? Like you said, 3% is not much of a pump, so I don't

know how much. They were purchased like five years ago for slightly above this sale price. So they aren't the founders. They simply bought into this. Yeah, they're flipping it. Yeah, and if you look at it too too think about the shitcoin market

uh there seems to be a little bit of more of the sec they want to go after it like we had the uh for example xrp and there seems to be you know they did the wells notice already with coinbase and kraken as well how can they go after it now though like ethereum has a spot etf coming ethereum does yeah but i mean some of these tokens are like l2 ethereum tokens right it just so i don't know just because it's part of it doesn't legitimize i'm not even legitimizing fucking ethereum but if a shitcoin is released uh like a brc20 on bitcoin it's still a fucking shitcoin and it's still fucking security because it's free mine and all that shit yeah i think that's right um i'm just thinking that this buying this shit coin casino and it's i have a feeling that there's going to

be regulations against a lot more of these shit coins and it's an arm of the government it's an arm of the government like how many more times you need to see these guys fucking do something stupid that people use the platform before you say that you're a hundred percent right. Then you're the regulation is going to come through the, through this platform. And remember when Coinbase IPO in April, 2021.

Yeah. Yeah. 2021. Yeah. Yeah. That was the peak of that bull run. And it took another six months before we reached another all-time high. But just looking back,

that was, it was a watershed moment. So it looks like we have another prominent exchange that's IPO-ing and this time it's Kraken. And Bloomberg is reporting that they're in the pre-IPO phase and they're looking to raise a cool $100 million.

So I'm not sure how many rounds they plan to do, but by comparison, i did some digging in coinbase they raised 547 million dollars over 11 rounds and that gave them a pre-ipo evaluation of almost 70 billion and that was in 2020 2021 dollars as well so you have to also take that in consideration so i'm wondering how successful they're going to move ahead with this ipo because remember they're they are still fending off these accusations from the sec where they're operating as unregistered exchange they were given a wells notice and even improperly mixing customer funds if i recall customer and operational funds yeah so yeah if

this goes through i mean depending on a value, it might be another moment that, you know, we might be at the top of another bull cycle. So we'll see if this IPO goes through. I don't think this is going to be the same as Coinbase, but you know what? They're trying to make bank here and good for them. Me neither, read the bull run. But I think that the more important thing here, and this is kind of reflected in the Robinhood bit stamp thing too. I think a lot of people are basically pricing in a Biden loss in November and they're saying to themselves, it doesn't matter what this idiot says because he's not going to be in the White House come November. Gensler will be gone. Warren will be crippled. These people who have been

anti-crypto are going to lose the election. David Bailey put out a decent tweet today I thought was kind of important to think about. There's almost no one who will vote for you if you ban crypto and you win almost no fringe voter by saying you will ban crypto either. So this idea that they're going to die on the crypto hill seems almost unimaginable, but it doesn't look like they're willing to change paths. And so if I was running a company like Kraken or like Robinhood, I would say, yeah, we got to get on this thing now because the price of these assets, both in terms of companies who deal in this stuff and in terms of the out on the Bitcoin island for the last two or three years. I think that's what they're looking at. And I wouldn't be surprised to see more stories like this. If you want to know how the raise goes, I think it has to be released. Actually, I believe at the end of each round, Castle Island, Nick Carter and Matt Walsh do a podcast every

Friday where they do basically a segment where they talk about the raises. And I'll be looking forward in there. I usually listen to that show. It's a pretty good wrap up of some of the stuff you see in Bitcoin and especially American politics. So I'll be looking for it there. And I wish these guys the best. You know, let's have some competition for Coinbase. Kraken's a quality company compared to Coinbase. They used to have, what's his face there?

Pierre Rochard, Jesse Powell. And since then, they've all kind of had to move on for different reasons but i still think that company's better than i don't know better than fucking bitstamp i'll tell you that you know there's there's a lot of people who would prefer kraken to bitstamp for sure and people there's bitcoiners who i really like like josh who does um a lot of bitcoin price stuff and macro stuff i watch this stuff religiously on youtube he's sponsored by kraken so i think that company knows a little bit about the space to say the least and i want to see them go public i want to see these guys succeed it's good for bitcoin is if there's exchange competition so that you and me are

not constantly talking about how as soon as bitcoin cracks an all-time high coinbase shuts off and the price drops right you want more of these companies to be able to garner capital through investing, through open markets, to expand their operations and become competitors with these otherwise companies that are Leviathan in nature. Coinbase is a good example. We touched initially on a show about fees, and I'm going to just dive into this as brief as i can i mean as in brief

and descriptive as i can because if you've been following network fees they've been pretty cheap you know they were low double digits still cheap today i think it's still under 30 sets oh yeah they're back to that but for a brief moment in time it went up to around 300 ish um it was yeah the three digits. So, and so it turned out people did some snooping. And the reason why this was the case, it was the exchange. Okay. X.

And they were doing UTXO consolidations. And the problem is that they fucked up in a process because they were paying too much in network fees. They were competing against themselves. So either they fucked up, or they had to rush this out the door for some reason that is yet to be disclosed. Maybe there's another option that I just don't know, but I'd love to hear what people think why they did this.

But either way, the fees entered, as I mentioned, the triple digits SATs per V-byte territory, and they've since settled in around 30 ish as in the weekend i don't know what it is today but either way so someone on noster was saying that bitcoin exchanges the big ones the big boys they have their corn spread out across seven million different utxos so i'm not sure how they managed to figure this out but assuming they are correct and all the big exchanges go through the same exercise that OKX just did,

7 million UTXOs for those big guys, OKX apparently consolidated a mere 1.3 million UTXOs, and that caused this spike. Just food for thought in case there's going to be an exercise like this by the other exchanges, there's going to be a exercise like this by the other exchanges, there's going to be, you know, a few days, maybe longer, a prolonged version of higher

fees, especially, you know, if they want to rush it out the door for whatever reason. So all I have to say is now's a good time to consolidate. It's cheap enough if you think it is. If not, you know, roll the dice, but you're saving a few bucks. It's not very much better to, you know, consolidate when you can, especially when you're cheaply or cheap now, then do it when it's in a higher fee environment. It's hilarious that like the most basic kind of retail facing software, like Sparrow would let you avoid this.

You just knew what you were doing. And OKEx, by the way, charges 0.1% on trades. So when you ask yourself where your trading fees are going, they just lost a bunch of trading fees paying network fees against themselves, which is hilarious. Len, I want to ask you a bit about the network fee structure and trend. Are you almost at the point now where you think that the best time to consolidate transactions was yesterday, but the next best time is now? Is the trend up into the right here more

or less concrete for you? Or do you think there's still going to be these sort of 1, 5, 10 sats per V-byte periods? No, I still think there's going to be a prolonged period of cheap UTXOs. Even with that being said, I would say do it today at around 30 sats per V byte rather than potentially tomorrow at less than 10. You're saving just a couple of boxes in the grand scheme of things isn't a lot, but it could really impact you later on if they spike. The reason why I think we're going to stay in this low fee environment for some time is no matter how much I talk negatively of the ETFs, the Bitcoin ETFs in the United States, they're doing one thing, I guess, for the greater good temporarily, is it's taking a lot of the

congestion away. And they just do fewer transactions, rather than a bunch of little transactions, which would normally be done if they buy Bitcoin rather than using DTF. So I think because the ETF is available, I think it's taking a lot of the pressure from on-chain. It's not a natural process, but it's still- Oh, man. I thought you were going to say ETF.

No, it's not all good. I mean, it's not natural, but it buys us a little bit of time yeah for the time being to see what other options there are and there are some other options especially being built out there's one from with the arc team for instance i want to talk about that more probably next week but right now you have lightning is a decent one it can't scale but you know that plus some few other things that are non-custodial nature to give them time to develop and i think with the etfs it's giving us some time so yeah long-winded answer um probably gonna be cheap for some time but don't hold me to this

yeah a little at a time a little at a time take it easy make sure you're taking uh utxo management seriously but like len said a couple bucks grand, like get it done. It also matters. Like, you know, if you're, if you're in the right frame of mind to do a UTXO consolidation, you know, a stretch of UTXO consolidations,

that's important too. You don't want to be there half in half out doing something else, you know, fucking around with your, your computer or whatever. Be there, be present, get the stuff done,

uh, in a way that makes sense and is, uh, safe as far as making mistakes, too. That's important. A couple bucks, don't worry about it. It's for the network anyway. It's money well spent.

And I'm generalizing, too, because if you're consolidating a lot of inputs, it's going to be more than a couple of bucks, even a 30 stats per view. And I can understand you may want to consider waiting, you know why um we're talking about something that could potentially be life-changing wealth you know why keep it stored in a bunch of smaller utxos bite the bullet pay the fees get it done sooner rather than later yeah but do your own research first this is just my own for sure we don't know yeah we don't know anything core weave sure let's talk about them like one of the last topics if not the last topic because they well we got wind that they wanted to buy core scientific and this was a totally different story than we when we talked about last week remember we talked about riot offering to buy up bit farms. And that was

going to be a, you know, somewhat of a consolidation in the publicly traded Bitcoin miner sphere. But either way, this time core weave, and they're a cloud computing company. And they offered core scientific and offer that, well, they could refuse. And they did so in the end. So maybe I guess cornweave should change your name to Cornweave because if they want to get into corn game, they should first change your name and then start buying up some corn somehow. Either way, this offer was reportedly worth

around $1 billion US. And that's at the time, a little bit above market cap for the company when the time this news was reported. And since then, the price of Core Scientific has jumped up considerably. So the offer was around $5.75 per share. was reported. And since then, the price of core scientific has jumped up considerably.

So the offer was around $5 and 75 cents per share. And it was trading at under $5 around that time. So it was a, you know, a decent margin that they're getting here. But now the price has since settled around $8 after this news. So it's jumped up a lot either way. These two companies, they are familiar with each other. right now Core Scientific is already providing services to Cornweave. And this offer, as I mentioned, Core Scientific rejected it. They felt that $5.75 per share was too low a price. And the real story here is not the offer and the rejection. That's secondary, I think, in the grand scheme of things but it's the fact that it's a high performance computing or hpc company that wants to be more aligned with bitcoin mining and gpu

cloud hpc all that shit they require a lot of computing power which in turn requires a lot of electricity and who has a lot of electricity set slash energy well Well, Bitcoin miners. And the question remains to be seen is, looks like CoreWeave did the math. And they said, or they thought, or thinking that selling HPC services could be more lucrative at times compared to Bitcoin mining. And last week, we were talking about oil and gas companies getting involved in the Bitcoin mining game. Looks like I totally overlooked HPC, the whole industry as a whole getting involved in the bitcoin mining game looks like i totally overlooked hpc the whole industry as a whole getting involved here because it may be a way for companies that are solely bitcoin miners they could turn a profit if they're offering services

not just for mining bitcoin but maybe providing hpc services so you think about it like companies like google meta this was part of the part of the cathedral merger prospectus too. You know what? Now I can see where you're going. I know. Okay. So help me, help me with this.

Okay. I think that's the right move. And I could, I could kind of understand now. Yeah. But why ASICs are not like by definition are not multi-use. That's there's no power to be shared or had there. 100%.

So what am I missing? The power angle you took is pretty good. These guys have power procurement that maybe the HPC companies don't have, and they've been procuring that power. They're kind of ahead of the curve in that regard. But as far as the actual compute, it's not just energy. It's chips. And the ASIC they don't do they do one function they might so then why the buy so i wanted i asked this i asked sb this too

and i don't remember what he said or if he had an answer i'd be curious i we got to get him back on i gotta i gotta nudge him again here's what i think okay so like the companies like google meta and all these other big companies those data data centers they have, they are massive in scale, size, scope, everything. And they suck a lot of energy. Not to say that they're going to be getting involved. I'm just trying to use them as an example. A lot of data centers out there, they're in the same position that they just need a lot of electricity. Now, as the price of Bitcoin goes up, mining Bitcoin is much more lucrative yeah but as the price of bitcoin goes down which can happen

it gives potential opportunities to divert that energy rather than simply turning off the asics and do nothing and or mine bitcoin probably at a loss why not if it is profitable i don't know if it is but if it is then divert the energy to hpc and generate an income at the time when bitcoin mining sorry bitcoin price goes down that's what i guess it is i don't know the transmission though like power transmission is really the the that's the expense right it would be on site that's everything on site see right now at core we for instance is already operating on site on core scientific they're providing services to them so they have those units there so why not just scale it out have a bigger footprint and just divert power as needed price of bitcoin drops 30 you're

mining at a loss send it to the hpc side if that is profitable price of bitcoin spikes turn off the hpc and then go from there so bitcoin you could i even talked about this last week on my interview can hpc really be demand response though it wouldn't as much as bitcoin right yeah so like you so you'd be and what do you do if the bitcoin side is the most profitable like how do you sell to your shareholders like yeah we were running both sides even though we could have done all one side, we had to do both because some of our clients wanted us to run this. It doesn't make sense to me how these things work together. So I'll give you a little bit more flavor here. Hive, and I got some information from them. They said previously they were mining bitcoin and

mining ethereum when ethereum was a proof of work yeah and they were converting that ethereum into bitcoin but that's a topic for another time either way they said they're converting 38 000 nvidia gpu cards to they had originally they were mining ethereum and other cryptocurrencies they're converting that to HPC and AI businesses. And they say, this is, I have no way to confirm this, is what they say, it's generating 15 times more revenue than Bitcoin mining per megawatt basis. Then why stay in Bitcoin mining?

I don't know. At the end of the day, you cannot, as a public company, make that statement. You can't. Because either you have the right idea for your business or you don't. And so if you're telling me that the HPC side is making 15 times more per megawatt than the mining, then you have to shut off all your miners.

And then you're not a Bitcoin company anymore. You're a hybrid HPC. I don't know. Those two things don't work together, I don't think. I can see my phone is going off yeah it's not but you can't i don't know those two those two things don't work together i don't think i i can see my phone is going off and it's that it's probably sb watching this being like i'd love to know so see a lot of this i don't know the answer but it just it's

interesting to see that there is expressed interest for these two industries to at least get involved somehow is last week i was saying strictly a bitcoin mining company i don't think it's going to be here for a very long time i think that that type of setup is just not going to work if it's under an umbrella of us of a bigger company like shell or i could then see that being the case because it's part of a division of a massive company and when times are good times are good at you know they could go but you can file that under r&d you know we're developing this yeah other strategy but you can't do it because because shell is not saying we're going to divert uh you know drilling resources over to the bitcoin mining side and vice versa they just it's not that

kind of business but the compute one it's the the power is fungible right and you know because of that you you have to you have to do things especially as a public company it's illegal to do anything else you have to do the thing that makes the most money. And if it's not Bitcoin, you got to shut them off. And then, I don't know, me and you are not going to solve this problem, but it is an interesting dynamic that's starting to show up here between these data-hungry companies, energy-hungry data companies, I should say, and energy-hungry Bitcoin miners. They're in a similar game, but it's just just two different if the venn diagram just barely barely has a little bit of space between the suit the two circles someone's playing baseball

the other one's playing wiffle ball yeah but there's money to be made if you can if you can find a way to make it work there's money to be made there for sure no doubt about that no yeah so there may be more of these types of okay so let me ask you this then let's let's take this out one more one more step here i know we're a little over the hour. Doesn't this worry you that the big Bitcoin mining companies who presumably have the most influence over government are going to say, yeah, the Bitcoin algorithm needs to change for X, Y, Z reason, but the real reason is so that they can go back and forth between mining and compute.

Isn't that a possible outcome if we keep going down this road? You centralize all these miners in five or six publicly traded companies, you lose tons of hash power when we don't change the algo, and then the network's not secure. This is a little bit, it's obviously hypothetical and maybe a bit fearmonger type stuff, but there's a world where this becomes a possibility. If we keep saying that mining is not a business that can be sustained data companies want the power and want the hardware and the only way to make sure that this the hardware uh units can do both is to change the mining algorithm right they're free to fork the code is open source if they want to do that i

in fact i encourage them to do that. Let the market decide. And let the chips fall where they may. Pun intended? Chips? No. They could do it. I don't think that I don't think, A, that's going to be a possibility, but even if

it is, I don't think it's going to change anything in the end. People, we fought this in 2017. I know. We've been there. The same't think it's going to change anything in the end. People, we fought this in 2017. I know. We've been there. We've been there. Right. The same type of result is going to come out of this.

We, the node runners, have a lot of say here. I'm going to run the node that for the software that I like best. Right. And I'm sure a lot of other people are going to say the same thing. So, yeah, they could do what they want. And like I said, I encourage them to fork, do it,

run away with it. Let's see what your mother, if you want to fork and those publicly traded miners last, I checked only made up around 30% of the overall hash rate. Yeah. So it's, it's a decent amount. Last thing before we,

yeah. Last thing before we wrap up people in the chat, people listening, should we start interviewing people in the chat, people listening, should we start interviewing people in the mining space again? We have one in the books. Ben Gagnon is coming on. Yeah. Not him.

Not him. Somebody else from that team. Oh, okay. Yeah. So should we start doing it again? We stopped because we didn't like the way these guys were going to other avenues for revenue. Should we start again? We've had requests. We're not answering them in the affirmative. Should we start? If you want to start seeing more miners, tell us. Maybe we'll do it. Maybe we won't.

But me and Len talked about this the other day. I kind of want to start doing it again. I think I would challenge them on a number of things. The interviews wouldn't be necessarily fun and friendly, but these guys are smart. They would at least have answers, even if I disagreed, which is what I want to hear. They're Fiat maximalists. They're a business. They're not there to push Bitcoin at all. They're there to make money for their shareholders. Yeah. Bob Burnett getting a shout out in the chat, by the way, from Boomer. He was a great interview. He's not a minor. He's not publicly traded.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, sorry. So the amount of bullshit he has to go through is much different than, say, a Bitfarms or whoever. He doesn't have a DEI panel. Yeah, okay, you want to go to the Notables? Probably not. Let's end this one and go to Notables. Perfect.

Stay here. If you're on video, you're on Spaces. Man, a couple hundred people. This is great. Hang out. We're going to the Notable Stories. And if you're listening on audio tomorrow, I'll put out the other half of the episode.

So until then, take care of yourself. And don't be a cock. Are you a fan of the old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast, from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.