The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #169 (Bitcoin News Stories) - Bugs, Bitmain and Billionaires

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. This week: -Bitmain releases a new Antminer to the world -and Bitmain doesn’t like aftermarket firmware -Are billionaires buying bitcoin? -LND bug fix -Mining with solar panels and so much more From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, welcome to what's probably going to be the least watched episode of CBP of all time. My name is Joey, that's Len. Buddy, you're looking at me confused. It's game seven tonight, Oilers and Panthers. I think a lot of people are going to be... No, I'm well aware.

I'm not going to watch it. I don't give a rat's ass, to be honest. But I'm sure they'll be throwing rats over there in Florida. That's what they did back in 96. I wonder if that tradition still remains today. I think so. I think so. I don't know.

There's no Joe Vanasky, no Niedermeyer, no Van Biesbroek. Those days are gone, buddy. Those days are gone. Toro's here in the chat. I see a bunch of people on Twitter and YouTube. That's great, man. I'm glad to see you guys. We get a good show all the same. We always prepare a show regardless of whether the Stanley Cup playoffs

are on or regardless of whether Italy stomps out Croatia with a late goal in a questionable amount of extra time in the Euros. But maybe before we start lend the sponsors easy dns best place for you to host your content buy a domain transfer a domain mark is your friendly neighborhood registrar you know len we were talking to mark on the weekend about um because on the weekend there during the week last week i forget now about a website a

website that he that he was looking at the auction for. He was watching the auction for this website. I think it was bitcoin.tv, maybe? Is that what it was? I don't want to say much about it. I'll tell you what. It ended up going for a lot of money. So maybe if you are a watcher

and avid payer of attention to the domain space and the price of the domain specifically. Mark can be the guy from whom you buy a domain and then sell it later for six figures. You know what? Actually, we can see it because I could tell you four days ago it was reported

Bitcoin.tv sold for $31,000 on June 20th at GoDaddy. Pretty good. That's a nice snipe. As per Google. Yeah, that's a nice snipe. So anyway, Mark can help you with that. He can help you with your virtual private server needs. So if you want to do a Nostra Relay, Bitcoin Node, B2C Pay Server, Node list, that list is probably expanding every day and I'm not really thinking about what other things are on there.

Plus of course, PGP and GPG email, all the stuff you need to build a website and start doing something on your own. Like we did, Mark and team can do it for you over at EasyDNS. Plus of course, Len, this day and age when the content game is overshadowed by censorship, don't worry about that over with Mark. I know he doesn't always love when I say that, but it is true. So go over easydns.com. CBP media is the code. Just tell Mark we sent you. You get half off your first round of buys with Mark and team. You can't beat that, man.

50% off. That ain't bad. Who else we got? Yeah, we got a little Bitcoin and you could use our URL. Iwantbitcoin.ca. So that's not for sale. Of course.

Thank you, Mark. Yes. So a good time to buy. The price of Bitcoin, it's not showing up on my block clock, but I'm not sure if it's still under 60,000, but it's probably in that range. If you think that's cheap, good time to buy. Maybe you're paper-handed and you want to sell.

Either way, Bull Bitcoin has you covered. You could do either or activity. You could sell on-chain. You could sell Lightning. You could buy on-chain. You could buy Lightning. When fees are high, good times to use Lightning. But fees aren't high right now so my personal preference is

still use on-chain not financial advice to your own research but you can also do other things with bull bitcoin you could pay your bills you know if the price of bitcoin has gone up quite a bit maybe not many people are willing to part with your bitcoin to pay their bills but you have that option so you have like an electricity bill you have to pay it's a car payment if the pay you could use bull bitcoin to facilitate the payment of those bills with your Bitcoin. And lastly, they have is you could use their services to buy gift cards. So you could want to go Starbucks, Home Depot, wherever the heck you want to go. You could pay with your Bitcoin.

You could buy those and spend it in the real world. So you're kind of indirectly living on a Bitcoin standard. We have to slowly get there. We have to show that it's a circular economy. This is one way to do it. So check that out. Pull Bitcoin. And if you haven't already opened an account, use our promo code below. And if you do that and fund your account and provide

the necessary information, $21 will be added to your account. No questions asked. Can't beat that. They also have the fee multiple tool, which is probably coming in handy today. I think things are very low. Yeah, very low for the last year and very low for the last 30 days. So if you're thinking about making a transaction doing some utxo management now is the time and you can use that tool to decide whether or not you should be doing it

or just leaving your stack as it is so then uh let's talk about some housekeeping first maybe who do we have on wednesday this week yeah we have Wilson Mining, and it's an Iowa-based company. And they provide hosting services and also consulting services for companies that want to, or anybody that needs help with Bitcoin mining. And I know that's getting a little bit of steam these days, given the price of Bitcoin has gone up. So I'm going to talk to them about business, about hosting, and about Bitcoin mining in general, because there's lots that I'd like to talk about. And I think people would like to hear that as well. So Wilson Mining Wednesday, 7 o'clock PM Eastern.

Should be good. Next week we have Carlo and Professor DiDomenico from U of T who wrote a research paper recently on Bitcoin and some personality traits of Bitcoiners among other things. I don't know how much we're going to talk about that, but I do want to talk about the link between academia and Bitcoin and some personality traits of Bitcoiners, among other things. I don't know how much we're going to talk about that,

but I do want to talk about the link between academia and Bitcoin and where he thinks that whole realm can help Bitcoin adoption and maybe some of the stuff that us as Bitcoiners can do a little better to help him. So I'm looking forward to that. I haven't talked to Carlo Campisi on the show in, I don't know how long, two years probably, maybe longer than that, since ShakePay was a sponsor basically um so i'm looking forward to talking to him always like carlo he's uh been a friend of the show and friend of mine as well so

that's interesting couple weeks coming up here um where do you want to go next boost you got a couple boosts there yeah let's still got four of them in particular i want to rhyme off e washington interesting name 100 sats he says love the show and appreciate all the great interviews and can say you guys got me into the nerd miner and running my own node it feels great to be part of a new revolution very cool and we'll be talking about the mining in this show uh especially home mining and some interesting ways to do it. So, yeah. Nerd miner is pretty cool. Maybe not the most efficient way of doing it,

but certainly one way to do it cheaply. Just dip your toes in the water. A wartime boost 333 sats, a heart, and two beer mugs. What do we do? Hit him with one of these? Thanks, thanks buddy yeah so thank you so much for the

boost we'll be donating these very soon in fact and we have to figure out who it is we want to donate to cash in out of fiat 1000 sats he says 500 sats for the show and all the babies it produces long time listener slash cheap-ass tipper. I'm going to try better, though. Thanks for the great content. So, yeah, I guess $500 for each of our two little ones, I'm guessing. $500 for our sats. We'll take it and I'll donate it.

Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Yeah, and then to a worthy cause. And last but not least, we have Checkpoint Jeff, 5,000 sats. He says, great work, guys guys i'm from central alberta walk us through the canadian tax law when selling goods for btc you know what when you're selling something for bitcoin to the best of my knowledge there's nothing you have to report aside from the fact that you have purchased it it's a selling is a taxable event this is from what i understand so exchanging

bitcoin to anything else not named bitcoin that is a taxable event and we talked about this at length and i'm not going to go into that right now but for selling something for bitcoin i don't think there's any tax implications surrounding that it's just like you're selling it for gold you're selling it for i think you still have to pay though like you probably still have to pay like i'm just thinking of you know there's a sales tax you have to pay yeah exactly when you get the bitcoin it's just it's not that's it yeah that's it you're right yeah so there's nothing but remember when you do that i don't think you're going to huddle forever the selling time or exchanging bitcoin and anything else not named bitcoin that's going to be the complicated part especially if you're a business you have then this on record and you

don't want to screw around with cra make sure you provide all the information how much it is you bought it for how much did you sold it for the time you bought date you bought the same thing for selling also you got 50 of that is going to be capital gains tax so too bad so sad that's what it is in canada right now until the laws change so hodl don't sell my yeah just hang on to it i think the business thing too you got to have your your cost basis you know it's going to be hard to calculate that if you're constantly taking bitcoin i don't know what you would do there's tons of like not you know not quite yet gap options gap like generally accepted accounting practices you know what would you do you take maybe the the opening day price the

closing day price and divide it by two. Is that what you do? Is it the average for your cost basis on days where you accepted Bitcoin? I really don't know. It's hard because the price moves so fast. It's 7% lower now than it was a few hours ago. So where do you... I don't know.

It's almost... I don't want to say it's not worth it because it's an important part of the whole Bitcoin thing, but it's difficult unless you have the tools and the commitment to make sure that you're recording stuff accurately and doing your bookkeeping in a way that Lakeland said is not going to upset the CRA. Unfortunately, we're in a world where really not upsetting the CRA is like goal one, A, B, and C when you're running a business. So you don't want to run afoul of the boys over there at the three-letter. Yeah, don't give them any opportunity to open up the doors and give you an audit. Because once that happens, it's going to happen time and time again.

I don't think it's a pretty picture. Either way, that's it for the boost. I'm not sure if anything else you want to chop off. Do we have any other housekeeping stuff? I'm trying to think. I don't think so. I'm undecided about whether or not we're going to do something Thursday for the debate. I am in the background talking to my American colleagues about maybe doing like half an hour at the end of the debate.

I know it's going to be late. I know I don't stay up that late most of the time. I'll be on the same cocktail that Biden is on that night, trying to stay up past nine o'clock if we do it. But if you're interested in something like that, maybe even just a Twitter space or something, like maybe I won't take it to YouTube. I think a lot of people want to do the Twitter space thing anyway. Let me know. Shoot me a text. Give me some suggestions for guests. I've been trying to coax SB into it. I think he might do it. Maybe Wayfaring as well, who's our other American friend. I don't know.

They'll see what Brandon's doing. There's options anyway. I wouldn't mind doing it if there's a big debate. And maybe we're going to talk about a lot of stuff when it comes to people now getting into Bitcoin. But the Trump on All In last week, I saw that it's on the website. noted that uh he did the all-in podcast last week didn't talk about bitcoin do you want to start with that kind of stuff where you want to start well we could talk about that initially but i'm just gonna just double back to where you're talking about the debate i didn't even know that the time apparently 9 p.m eastern is when it starts what 9 p.m yeah and it's 90 minutes oh it's gonna wrap up then 10 30 ish p.m eastern so

yeah there you go forget it forget everything i just said if i show up for a space after that you'll be lucky but you know i thought it would start like eight a reasonable time nine o'clock so are you telling me the democratic party wanted debates with no audience that start at 9 p.m. on a weeknight? Like they really don't want anyone to watch, do they? Is that the plan? Like no one watching? No. Think of who you're capturing then.

Because 9 o'clock, you're still capturing the people on the East Coast. The sun is starting to set. So you could probably watch half an hour, an hour, maybe longer. But on the West Coast, starting at 6, if you you go any earlier then it's going to be much harder to pick up the debate so it's difficult to capture both sides but remember there's a three-hour difference between the east and the west coast yeah i think about hawaii neither are they unfortunately how many seats they're gonna go to singapore dollars soon over the way things are anyway whatever let's get into it well you want to talk about trump and anol and i like i have

really did you let's do it i would assume no you didn't no no zero interest anything the only thing i understood and this is all secondhand information so so I can't verify this, is he didn't talk about Bitcoin, nor did they ask him anything about Bitcoin. They did ask him. They led with crypto and Bitcoin. They led with the question. Was it a question or was it like a topic? It was a question that had a part about crypto and Bitcoin. Trump didn't touch it, which to me doesn't really matter.

That podcast is not meant to capture the crypto and Bitcoin crowd. And I think he knew that going in it sounded like he was prepared to talk about a lot of things that are important to people who listen to that podcast like the deficit immigration um things like that so i thought he did an okay job you know all in is a weird show for me some sometimes i really like it and sometimes i really hate it and i hate to say it but it really hinges on how much of a dickhead calcanis is being that day if he's if he's completely insufferable, cutting people off, pretending to quote unquote offer context while really just spouting out lefty talking points,

it's unlistenable. But when he's not, and when he's an honest dealer and a square dealer and does his best to facilitate conversation with three guys who are, you know, by his own admission, smarter and more successful than he is. I think it's a really good show because they're friends, Len, and they speak candidly. You know, it'd be like if there was another one of me and another one of you sitting in the room, just, you know, kind of bullshitting back and forth about what's going on in the economy and the country and business and finance and tech, you know, things that even if we're not experts, we have some visibility on thanks to the things we are experts in.

And I thought they did a good job with Trump because they asked him some difficult questions, stuff that they said they were going to ask. And I think that Trump gave some answers they liked, some they didn't like, some they challenged him on, some they expanded on. They got some new stuff out of him about immigration policy. They got some new stuff out of him about tariffs and taxes. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, I tweeted this last week. So it bears repeating though,

given that the debates are coming up on Thursday. You're living in a country, if you're an American, where both candidates are, let's say about 80 years old. Okay. One of them is clearly not all there at this point. There's nothing wrong with not being all there at 80. Not many people are all there at 80 anymore. It's difficult to be all there at 80, especially after the life that Biden's led. One of them is a guy who may be a little more coherent and keeps a much, much, much more jam-packed schedule and shows almost no fatigue, it seems like, when he's at these public events. The thing is that neither of them are really quality candidates on the issues, I think, overall. They're okay, but you're going to run into a lot of the same problems regardless of who you choose as a leader over in the United States. The thing that I would say is I think

that both candidates should skip the debates, honestly. I think that both candidates should do All In, Joe Roganan and Pod Save America, the three big podcasts. Pod Save America is super left-leaning. Rogan's neither left nor right, doesn't much care about politics at all. And all in, I think skews left more than right on a lot of issues, right rates on issues, but I think is a sort of a left center left podcast, let's say. That's really where you want to see your candidate try and hold their own for an hour, an hour and a half in a free flowing conversation where it's not your fan club, Tapper and whoever else is moderating on Thursday. And the same goes for Trump on Fox. It's not his fan club moderating the debate. The podcast that I mentioned probably get, I don't know, how many views in a month?

100 million, something like that between the three of them, maybe more. And I would say that if you wanted to really show your voter base that you can perform in an adversarial environment, which is important when you're the president of the United States. It's important when you're the president of a high school student council, let alone the president of the United States. This is the way to do it. The debates, I think, are a washed kind of format, Len. And I'm going to go as far as to say that this will be the last cycle where debates are held on the three big networks. You're never going to see it again after this year. I think that time is done. That ship has sailed and no one really cares.

They want to see more stuff like you're seeing from all in on Friday. Even if you don't like the candidate, the fact of the matter is he did it. And the other piece of that is that there's just no way Biden could ever do it. There's no way he could ever do it. That version of Joe Biden could never go toe-to-toe with those four guys for an hour and change he just doesn't have it in him and it sucks but uh that's you know sort of where we are right now the state of politics united states the good news is rfk jr is going to do exactly what you're saying he's already done it he did he did all in a couple of times yeah he's not going to participate in debates he's not going to be on any of the major networks he's going to do exactly what

you're saying so he's going to be and whatever is the result of that will happen. I don't think it's going to impact his ability to get elected. But it's funny because he's being excluded from that inner circle. Absolutely crazy. Boomer, good comment in the chat. Why don't we get the candidates doing CBP, high hash rate, and rock paper Bitcoin. Maybe we should. Maybe we should. Is that possible? Has anyone talked to you or reached out? I haven't heard from any of the candidates. No, nobody's going to talk to me. Maybe we'll get one of the Canadian guys to do it

or gals to do it or whatever. Let's move on. Not after that, probably. We'll talk about Bitmain. Bitmain, I'm not sure if you heard but they just released some equipment to make bitcoin mining more efficient and we're talking now the s21 xp model and this was released to the world at the world digital mining summit in las vegas

why we didn't go i have no idea we should went. At least one of us should have. Either way, maybe next year. So this comes only two months after they released the S21 Pro. And the S21, the non-Pro, has a hash rate of 200 terahash and a power consumption of 17.5 joules per terahash. So that's not too bad. 17.5 is pretty darn efficient. The Pro, in comparison, is 15 out of the box, 15 joules per terahash so that's not too bad 17.5 is pretty darn efficient the pro in comparison it is 15 out of the box 15 joules per terahash and 234 terahash if that's how much it's hashing away which is pretty good that's just the air cooled if you want to get the uh more efficient one you

could get even a hydro which is up to 473 terahash per second. That's nuts. How big are these things? How big are these units? So the regular air-cooled is slightly bigger from the pictures I've seen than the S19. The hydro, it's an all-encompassing unit that has a water cooling and everything. Those are humongous machines. So they're not simply you just take your existing equipment off the shelf and plug these in. They're just huge. And there's also the immersion, which will get you 380 terahash

to and that's pretty darn good. So there you go. So just mining got a heck of a lot more or marginally more efficient. We're talking 15% more hash rate now and 11 more efficient compared to the previous model so a lot of r&d went to this right like these models they just don't pop up the shelf and it just doesn't come from somebody's head a lot of time a lot of effort a lot of money is put into this to get to this point this is why bit main is a leader in this field and the competition generally is chasing them but this comes with a but we'll talk about that in a bit but just wanted to point this out there there's a new model that came out anybody that wants to get it i'm not sure anybody wants to get one of these but these new s21 xps they're

out there and they are screamers but man they're freaking loud too i don't think you're just going to want to have this heating your home it's got to be something like in a garage or somewhere else it's just away from the house just how loud these things are yeah i think that's true i was listening to um a bit of the hud 8 uh call today on twitter some news happened from hud 8 today right yeah they're they're going into ai like everyone else they're that's what it is they're going into uh ai they actually have there's a link is? They're going into AI. They actually have, there's a link with CoreWeave there, who we've talked about on the show, who has a link with NVIDIA. The NVIDIA CoreWeave thing, I don't know. SB is a big NVIDIA bull, too.

I should ask him about that last week, because I'm curious about some of the things there. Like NVIDIA is giving loans to CoreWeave, and CoreWeave is buying NVIDIA GPUs. Like, I don't know. It seems a bit weird to me. But anyway, the the hud 8 call the reason i bring it up is because someone asked on the call about these new bitmain machines and

you know what are you guys going to do as far as hardware blah blah blah and uh asher i think the guy's name is the new ceo took over for jamie had i think without any hesitation an answer that was not anything I was expecting, that they're not going to buy the new machines. He said the reason they waited to procure hardware was not to buy the new ones, but rather to get the old ones cheaper. So you mentioned it when you were giving your summary there that it's really not that long between production models now. And so I think a lot of miners are probably thinking the same thing that maybe this is a game of sort of quantity over quality at some level. Once you get to this sort of two or three top end models from Bitmain, probably the same for the other manufacturers too. If we can get more of the old ones online and our PPAs are rock solid. We're getting lower than market power pricing. Is that the move now? These guys

are going to try and pull off? Given that they're also doing high efficiency compute, do they care about having the best Bitcoin miners anymore? Maybe they don't. Is that part of it? I didn't think about this with SB, but isn't that part of the whole shift in business model now? Feels like it might be. I don't want to have to buy the newest stuff. It's hard to get. The logistics are difficult. So instead, I move my company to some level of HPC as opposed to just Bitcoin mining. I buy one generation or two generation older units. Efficiencies are close enough that it doesn't make that big difference if i can get enough of them and i'm not putting too much money into bitcoin mining when hpc is going to take up part of the business anyway

i think do i have that right you know more than me but in my head that's how it might look how do you they're interesting because they were mining Ethereum before it went to proof of stake. So they, they had equipment at that time, GPUs to specially designed to, or either way, general purpose GPUs to mine Ethereum. After that move to proof of stake,

what did he do with that equipment? Are they still sitting on it? Maybe now they're just figuring it out. Hey, there's a year and a half old now right it's yeah it is older is there still value in that i don't know i i honestly don't know so i've been saying i'm not sure certainly behind the scenes that i'm thinking that these companies are gonna to change like a pure bitcoin mining company is probably at least publicly traded it's

probably just gonna not be available they're gonna have to somehow pivot and to have something to change like a pure bitcoin mining company is probably at least publicly traded it's probably just going to not be available they're going to have to somehow pivot and to have something else in there i can't believe corey's getting involved they're they they're like seemingly seemingly getting involved in just about any they're popping up a lot of places yeah they're popping up a lot of places and again i need to know the relationship between corey and nvidia i need to look into that in more detail but it's there's something going on between the two of them that I think is a bit, not unsettling, but it's not something you see often where like NVIDIA, like I said, is giving, it's either like debt converts or something else

to Corby. Even Corby was in using that money to buy NVIDIA product. How does that make sense you know again I gotta find out but something going on there I'm just looking here at what it takes to run like when I think about high power compute I think about stuff for basically corporate LLMs yeah these are like crazy crazy big um but i don't see the price on these yeah you could probably run doom on the fucking lcd screen on the front of the thing i don't know how big these gpus are nor do i know how much they cost doesn't say much let's see how much does an nvidia h100 H100 35,000-ish.

Wow. Yeah, 35,000. What's the ROI on that? Yeah, well, that's the thing. If these miners are serious about doing high-power compute, this is the stuff you need to do it. So again, I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly, like you said,

the ROI is on a lot of these things for them as opposed to Bitcoin mining. And SB and I talked about that last week. We didn't really come up with a good answer either. But there's a lot of moving parts in there that people should be aware of, especially if you're investing in miners. A lot of people who buy Bitcoin, especially in Canada, like to invest in miners. And I don't know. Like, where do you come down on this now? You know, do you think, and like I said to SPA, be curious to hear your thoughts because you weren't on that show. If you wanted exposure to Bitcoin mining before, it was really a pure Bitcoin mining play. more about power purchase agreements and being able to deploy and redeploy your computing power to whatever the best use of the power ends up being. It's basically just power allocation now.

And so if you're going to do that anyway, and no matter what the use is, they're going to use NVIDIA chips, why would you ever buy HUT over NVIDIA? Isn't that the question these miners should be asking themselves if you really want to drive your share price but you're doing stuff that relies on nvidia regardless and you can take away the execution risk uh by just buying the chip provider why would any ever anybody ever buy hut 8 or biff farms or cathedra or any of these companies who are doing both just buy the chip manufacturer and let these guys figure out the rest. Go even further then. If you want to get exposure to Bitcoin, why would you even get these Bitcoin mining companies? Because like you mentioned, there comes a lot of risk involved with that.

Why not just buy the asset itself? I think you're right. I mean, I don't buy miners. You don't buy miners. I buy Bitcoin. Yeah. This is why I don't understand though. I still think though,, speaking for the population,

some of whom watch the show, I still get messages from people about miners from time to time. There's still a group of people who don't want to have the ETF in their TFSA. They prefer to buy equity in one of the miners. My question now, like I said, is why would you do that instead of buying NVIDIA?'s to me you're adding a layer of risk i know you're shaking your head i'm not really sure honestly yeah i need someone we have bit farms coming on in what three weeks something like that something like that the only thing i'm gonna say is that they're undervalued somehow you could come up with an argument they're oh we're gonna see i'm gonna push the bit farms guys as hard as i can because i you know i

don't i don't understand why and biters is not doing HPC, I don't think. Are they? Are they doing high power compute? They're not. To the best of my knowledge, strictly Bitcoin mining. Okay. So I'm going to ask them why this thesis is wrong. And they'll probably have an answer because they're not doing it right. So maybe they agree that you're giving yourself a hard time on the share price. It's interesting all the same because a year ago then, neither of us would have said that Bitcoin miners would be getting into AI. And now it seems like people... How about something else?

Well, it's weird, but even Iris Energy, if you looked at IRN share price on days where Bitcoin's been flat, IRN's up like 100% since Bitcoin's been choppier down. And they were one of the first to do this HPC stuff. And I think people in the market like this, but when you ask them, and SB's in Iron Bull too, and I'm not saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

He's way brighter than I am when it comes to this stuff. When you ask people who are bullish on miners, they just don't have an answer for why would you buy the miners over NVIDIA today? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me why you would do it. And I want to know what the farms is looking at and what they think and why they didn't do this, given that the market seems to like it. Maybe they think the same way, maybe they don't. But again, a year ago, never would have said this. Is it good that this is happening?

Maybe. I see guys like Mike Alfred saying, oh, Bitcoin and AI converging. This is the best investing opportunity in 25 years. Marty Bent, same thing, Bitcoin and AI. I don't really give a shit. And I think the people who use AI, the sort of retail facing AI stuff will tell you that it sucks. You can't get the AI to write a decent article for you. I tried to use AI to summarize stuff. It doesn't do a good job. I can

do a better job. I even think about Access of Easy, the other show we do. Once in a while, especially when we first started, I would feed the page to ChatGPT and tell it to write me a summary of things that I should be paying attention to in cybersecurity because I just didn't know. And it never did a good job. It never did a good job of giving me a summary. I always thought, in my opinion, of course, that I did a better job than GPT did. Mark seems to agree. I mean, he still got us doing the show. And so when I look at that from a Bitcoin standpoint, or even when I use it for work, it never does a great job of doing the stuff that everyone seems to love. Is this a problem with broader competency of people? They don't know what a good summary looks like. They don't know how to read and review something

for key points and write them down in a way that makes it easy to disseminate later on. Maybe. I think that's something we could talk about over the course of another two hours but i don't know man like you and you know i know you feel this way what's what are your sort of you know um your issues with bitcoin miners going to ai i don't have any particular issues with that they have to find some other ways to generate revenue especially when the price of bitcoin goes down which impacts their ability their revenue if they're strictly bitcoin miner so if they could parlay that energy into something else that is product that is very profitable as a business all the more power to them the problem i have though is this something that's going to still be profitable in six months a year and two years two years from now is there going to be an overextension of companies getting into this which creates a glut yeah of services like this

and then drives down the price this could potentially happen and then then these companies that are leveraging themselves to get into the ai side of things they're going to get wrecked as a result i don't i look at this and i've said it many times about bitcoin mining is going to eventually transition to those that just have extra energy that you're just not monetizing it and that's the perfect scenario to start employing bitcoin mining is it doesn't require that much overhead in terms of you know you don't have to have a fancy location you can just a fucking trailer you wheel out there and if as long as you have connection to the internet you know i don't think it's that hard these days especially with starlink or shit like that you're you're good to go you you have the ability to start up something

and monetize that energy that was previously not monetized that's where it's at so all these like when you're flaring off or just venting methane man oh man that that's wasted revenue somehow that they got to capture that that's yeah yeah i think you're right i don't i don't know i think we we're gonna even like well it's just a bit of trouble even if you have a power plant that just you know you're generating more electricity than you need so for example you set up a hydro plant like they're doing in ethiopia and there's more electricity that then there's there's demand for example, you set up a hydro plant like they're doing in Ethiopia and there's more electricity than there's demand for. What do you do? Well, balance it out with Bitcoin. I think you're right. No, I think you're right. Don't get me wrong. I actually believe the way

you're saying is correct, for sure. I don't know how long as an industry, how long is Bitcoin mining around for? Five years, Six years? I don't know. I'm just not sure. Oh my god, Boomer. Julian Assange to be freed after agreeing to a plea deal. What? Is that true? Boomer's account hacked? We got to find out. But how did they... Oh, you know what?

I don't want to speculate right now. Let's keep going. We just spent 35 minutes on what was supposed to be a Bitmain story. Let's still talk about Bitmain because you know they're they are a leader in the world of bitcoin mining and this is in my eyes a negative when it comes to this because you have this one company that has a good chunk of the overall market for bitcoin mining and if you look at it it's well there's some news that came out, for example, this past March 2024, they released some new firmware for their equipment. And that

firmware restricted the installation of third party firmwares. So this impacted stuff like brains OS, Lux OS, Lux OS, sorry, and others. So anyone that wanted to fine tune their hardware, that or even get additional settings, which are not available in the stock, well, you're SOL. So it's advised to not upgrade the firmware to the March 2024 or later because you might be locked out. Although it sounds like Lux

may have found a way to get around this, but I'm unable to confirm this or deny it. So either way, Bitmain has every right to do this, right? Like they're the ones producing the equipment they're the ones but it makes them look bad in a way to restrict the hardware in this manner and you know we need more choices when it comes to asics that this to have a desirable outcome in this we definitely need it and so you look at those that could

potentially do it we had, which was a great option because they had deeper ties to Western nations like Canada, United States, and so forth. But man, if they didn't want to do it, think of with all the resources they had, the people, the fabrication, all that shit, and they found this wasn't, I guess, to be a profitable endeavor.

That goes to show you that this is a very difficult industry to break in because Intel has the resources that only companies would dream to have. Who the heck is now going to want to come in and compete against bit main? Yeah, man. Like I can't see this changing in the next while. I hope I'm wrong,

but I don't like the fact that bitmain is the major supplier of equipment out there that's it that's it to me that that rubs me the wrong way bitmain is the attack vector we should be concerned about i think you know is that fair to say i'm with you i'm 100 with you i'm looking at this i'm like man this is not decentralized we got to do something and i don't know how to do something because obviously this is way outside my control we all have to buy the bid axe everyone needs to buy two bid axes off john we got to figure it out he's got to figure it out someone's got to figure this out can't be me and you i don't know anything about miners some things are open source but they're ripping out chips from s19s and s21s yeah to make those happen so still

we're back to the source we're back to bitmain and i don't know man i somebody i wish somebody could get involved in it and intel that was it that was going to be the one that could really create a way intel's intel is like you, underachieving on so many different fronts these days and the Bitcoin mining thing is not really that surprising to me that they, they couldn't figure that out. So what do we do? Like, you know, how do we, how do we fix it? I see, you know, Nate in the chat saying, uh, pled miners will rise. We've said that in the show too. I think there's like a,

there's a real possibility that it becomes a necessity for Bitcoin over the next 10 years that everyone runs a miner at a loss um to protect the network you know and i i don't know what that means for bitcoin security and bitcoin propagation i'll tell you what that's probably not great for it but you know i think there's there's at least some possibility that, I don't know, we wind up with a situation where Bitmain is the party that gets compromised. We talked before about this, and I think you kind of poo-pooed me, rightfully so. Listening back to that episode, I didn't do a good job defending my position. Maybe the industrial miners shifting or forking to another algo that works better for both HPC and Bitcoin mining isn't the danger. Maybe it's Bitmain that yeah the the bit main thing not to say that they're something is imminent or whatever it's just let's be honest why would we want one company to have this much of a market share no we don't we don't now they're restricting the

um installation of aftermarket firmware you know they're the loblaws of bitcoin mining yeah in a way they are. Let's get the jug meat on this. Maybe get them in. Tag them in. You talked about the Bidax. Let's talk about this because somebody posted a very interesting project on Twitter and his name is OffGrid. Love that name.

And he's using or he used the Bidax Supra. That's the one that has the hash rate of 580 gigahertz per second to 700 gigahertz per second. So it's really much less than an S9, but still it's very efficient. Either way, he was mining with that on Brain's Pool and using to power this a solar panel, a 100 watt solar panel and through this in a month he mined a grand total of 1813 sats that's about a dollar and 16 so this guy's located in canada this time of year we get a lot of sunshine so if you look at this it will take years if ever to break even still a cool project but if anybody that wants to do something like this and you think, yeah, you're going to make bank, this guy only made 1,800 sats in a month,

and that's in the sunniest time of the year in Canada. So, yeah, it's really not very profitable. Nonetheless, a cool project, and I don't want to shit on that, but for anybody out there that thinks i'm gonna to make it big especially with silver not gonna happen man it is not gonna make much i think still it's kind of cool though i always like yeah i like stories like this it's it's like not often anymore that we talk about home miners innovating right um you know what what can you say there's there's a part of me that says that you should mine no

matter what the cost is. If it's a little less than, you know, the Bitcoin you would get for the same amount of power, it's actually a lot less these days probably. But, um, there's something noble about mining. And I still think that I just don't know whether I should be able to ask regular Bitcoiners, can you mine at whatever your power cost is for sats that you would otherwise be able to buy, even non-KYC probably, for cheaper than the power. It's a difficult thing to ask people to do. We talk a lot in Bitcoin about game theory and incentives, and you're just not incentivized to do it.

Neat story, neat idea, but we need to figure out how to make home mining game theory and incentives and you're just not incentivized to do it you know neat story neat idea but um we need we need to figure out how to make home mining um an option i know you're laughing because you can't even do it like there's no there's no way to do it right and the problem too is that there will be a gap between when home mining becomes necessary and when home mining becomes you know profitable if those things happen and man that that crossover period is going to be brutal for network security and i i don't know go ahead go ahead so i was gonna say in ontario there's an option you could take advantage of i think it's called the ultra low energy thing where yes you know we have tiered

system right now like my house we have three tiers we have high mid and low there's another one that's like ultra low so your high is going to be much higher in terms of the cost but your low is very very cheap so that's the one because it's overnight and so you'd have to time it you'd have to ramp up your miner during that ultra low and then turn it off at the when it gets a little higher in terms of cost but you're only going to be mining for i don't know what the hours would be six seven eight hours every day yeah when is the low period is i think it starts at 7 p.m but i don't know when it finishes in the morning 7 a.m seven seven yeah that's for the low but for ultra low is different it's even they change it so they're really trying to encourage people to charge their cars and shit overnight but that's so that's the situation you'd have to do but you're only going to be

taking advantage of the power for maybe a third of the day so unless you could score some s19 for cheap or free then if you're paying for it outright like the regular market rate you'll never be able to make it up so So there's no way to do it. Tough ask. All these things, he heats his home with an ASIC and he doesn't give a fuck. He's right. If you're going to heat your home with electricity,

you might as well plug in one of these pieces of equipment. Get something KYC-free at the same time. Yeah. I like this boomer comment. Take your bid act to the office the gym the hotel and then tell your wife to take it to her boyfriend's house oh the last one yeah the other one's high your membership's gonna get revoked and you're gonna get kicked out of yeah buddy i've seen zoomers plugging in all kinds of shit in the gym now

i saw a kid charging his vape in there like a week ago he's got it plugged in i know i know he's got it plugged in near the uh squat rack that made me laugh good for him man power's not you know nothing's cheap land that guy's in the he's an entrepreneurial economizer that guy you know he's he's getting it in he's taking care of business good for him meta planets also taking care of business they plan to buy more bitcoin and this one is going to be 6.2 million ish worth of bitcoin and they're going to be doing this using the proceeds from an upcoming bond issuance and this is a big buy for them they already have nine million dollars of bitcoin so they're going to buy another six with one particular purchase which is pretty darn

big and so this bond issuance if anybody's interested and wants to get in on this, it's going to take place this Wednesday. So Japanese time. So keep that in mind. It's going to have an annual interest rate of 0.5% and will mature on June 25th, 2025. So the question is, how did the market react to this news that MetaPlanet is going to buy some Bitcoin? Well, it went up 12%. So how many times do we get this?

You know, the market loves it going up. You know, so anyways, I'm going to say that I said this is the company to not commit to memory, but every fucking week they buy more Bitcoin. Every fucking week. Good for them. I like it, man. Hey, listen, they're committed to the strategy. And I think even if they're not committed to it for the reasons that you and I might think, it doesn't matter. Because like I said before, and you said this as well, the reason that those strategies work and are effective is because they eventually win

people over, right? They win over shareholders and the company likes it more before you know what the price is going up, blah, blah, blah. Not today, obviously, but you get the idea. So yeah, I think it's dope, man. This is fantastic. I look forward to seeing them continue to buy. They got to be, as far as publicly traded companies, I know they're small, but they got to be in the top 20 probably, right? As far as like Bitcoin holders at this point? I don't even have a clue. What's that website?

The Bitcoin Treasuries or something like that? Yeah, we got to check with MVK here. Bitcoin Treasuries. How come the CBP isn't listed on there? We bought more Bitcoin today, by the way. He doesn't like us. MVK, we refuse this. What does he want to do?

What do we need? We got to bring in KPMG to do the audit? I'm telling you, what do you got? Come on, man. We have this probably on display to block clock. I talk fondly of the cold card. Come on, man. What are we doing? Get us on there. Come on, man.

What's the story? Let's see. Meta Planet. Jesus Christ. Bitcoin Treasuries. Meta Planet. No, they're way down there's a lot more companies here than i thought to be honest a lot of them are miners but still um yeah that's just yeah it goes to show you that a lot of companies are holding micro strategy still in the lead by quite a bit yeah they got no they got quite a bit they got quite a bit they uh met a planet now holding 141 bitcoin as far as last update. I'm not sure exactly when this was last

updated, but there you go. That's about 141. They're top 50. They're top 50 for sure. I don't know how many. There's a lot of place underneath them. But even like, you don't realize how many these guys, like how many coins these guys have. Semler's got 828

Bitcoin. That's quite a bit. Who else is on here that i'm surprised to see it would be technologies is it are there let's see let's see defy was a pretty small buy right yeah but still i'm wondering if it's going to make the list there no it's they're not there no oh so they're getting the cbp treatment yeah sorry about that how many to get on the list of bitcoin treasuries it looks like we have to break 42 bitcoin got a long way to go we're gonna need you guys to buy a lot of bitcoin before we have enough runoff residuals to get to 42 bitcoin no or we could start issuing bonds right if these guys start issuing bonds

at 0.5% we'll issue bonds at 0% so you're gonna get zero fucking gain out of this in fact you're gonna lose because you know the dollar is gonna be worth less in a year we'll send you a t-shirt that's still too much we'll do we'll do a call through

zoom or something yeah whatever pictures of my disgusting feet after football. Is that something people want to see, man? I don't know. I don't know. Anyways, let's talk about Michael Dell really quick.

And this guy may be orange-pilled? I'm not sure. Because through a recent Twitter conversation or X conversation between he and Michael Saylor. And Dell was writing on X that Bitcoin is digital scarcity. So what does this all mean? Like, this is the guy behind the Dell Technologies Company. And this company is worth far, far more than MicroStrategy is. So are they signaling that they are going to be buying Bitcoin? Or is he signaling that they are going to be buying bitcoin or is he signaling that he's going to be buying bitcoin a lot of it we have no clue whatever it is to happen it wasn't

enough to turn the market today for a gain like it went very very red so maybe he bought at the wrong time either way looks like there's going to be a lot of people out there that have money billionaires per se that are going to want to park some of it into bitcoin so we talked about there's going to be a supply shock eventually when there's no more exchange no more bitcoin in the exchanges like you know these companies buying billionaires buying eventually it's going to come to a point there's nothing left and what happens then who are they going to buy from and at what price? But anyways, is Dell in on Bitcoin?

I don't fucking have a clue, but it's raised a lot of interest in the Bitcoin world. How much do you care? To be honest, zero, but some people do. I don't care. Like I said about last week, it does not change my buying habits. It doesn't increase how much Bitcoin I'm going to buy. It doesn't decrease the amount of Bitcoin I'm going to buy.

For me, my conviction remains the exact same it was before we heard anything from Dell. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm the same way. I mean, what's Dell been up to lately? What is Dell selling? Are they selling servers? They're certainly not selling a lot of computers these days.

I hardly ever see like Dell laptops Alienware I guess is a Dell product but maybe I'm just not the market for that I'm not saying the guy doesn't have money he definitely has money and you want to see a guy with that much capital park a percentage point or five percentage points or whatever

but ultimately like you I'm like nah whatever if someone copies Sailor's playbook and then starts tweeting AI pictures of Bitcoin, like sailor does, but it's not sailor, I'll be pissed. There's already too much, too many AI photos on my timeline of like Bitcoin and stuff like that. I just, I can't do another, I can't do another Michael AI tweeting on my timeline about Bitcoin. I just can't have it.

I can't have it. Is there a lot of cock sucking going on with what right you know what i mean like you know there's a lot going on people are fucking simping there's a lot of hot to uh going on out there for uh there's so i'll say it people are fucking sucking their cocks flat out and you know they could do what they want but come on does it really matter who the fuck buys into this but whatever at the very least i'm looking at this as an opportunity if they buy these people with uh with wealth if they start buying a lot bitcoin a lot of it then it's definitely going to be even more scarce for us to buy and the price has to go up too.

But like, yeah, boom, that's it. Don't be a fucking cock. I totally agree. Don't be a cock. Yeah. Why? Like, who gives a shit? Dell's the 12th richest guy in the world.

That's pretty high. It is high. He still has it, right? I don't know what he is now. Probably number 55 now. I don't know. I don't really. To me, this Probably number 55 now. I don't know. I don't really. To me, this kind of stuff has played out at this point.

The CEO buying Bitcoin, the rich guy buying Bitcoin. I don't care. I want Dr. Phil to come out and buy Bitcoin. Base Dr. Phil to come out and buy Bitcoin. Have you heard him speak, by the way? In the last little while. He was on Rogan a little while ago. It was a good episode.

He's really good. He shares a lot of the same concerns that I have. He's really good. Let's talk about Lightning Node runners, specifically L&D node runners. And they need to take action if you're running 0.17.0. So if that number, if that's the version you're running, or earlier, 0.17.0. So if that number, if that's the version you're running or earlier, 0.17.0,

take note because you should consider upgrading. I'm not sure how many people listening to this show are running a lightning node, but if you are, as I say, take note. The discovery, they say is,

um, it's a vulnerability to a DOS attack. And this is where they send malicious onion packets that caused a node to instantly run out of memory and then crash. So upgrade to a version, LND version 0.17.1 or newer. So what I have to say, though, is 0.17.0 came out many many months ago november 2023 and actually that was 0. sorry 0.17.1 came out november 2023 so that's been out for some time so they patched this seven months ago but we finally just knew or just know about it right

now they somebody's been sitting on this information and not telling anybody that they should be upgrading and i'm wondering people out there look not many people really rely on lighting but i would imagine there's a very small percentage of people that do and if for whatever reason they were shut out from getting access to their funds because this bug was in the system and they weren't advised to update their software, that's fucking bullshit. Because you never know what type of harm this may have impacted on somebody if they needed to buy food or medicine for themselves or their family. And they tried to use it. Oh, their node crashed because it ran out of memory and because why they weren't advised to upgrade that's fucking bullshit they should it

should be on their shoulders it should the onus is on them the people that that fucking do this to program it and know about the bugs to release the information beforehand let people know tell people upgrade and if they don't fuck them but at least at least they know i'm gonna leave it at that it's fucking trash though i don't have anything to really say because i don't run a lightning node but i'd be curious to hear your opinion on one other thing what is the right amount of time is it zero days is it you know a week how how quickly do you expect these things to be disclosed i would say right away as soon as it's known you don't have to say exactly what is the problem just say a vulnerability is known it's advised you upgrade

right away as soon as the thing comes out if you patched it in one of the later versions that bug is known because the patch doesn't come by itself somebody programmed it to get around to fix that problem and at that point you say look the vulnerability existed we don't have to say the specifics but it's highly advisable you upgrade right away to the newest version if you don't you know all the more power to you but if you do then you're protected and the fact they didn't do anything they sat on this for seven months it just rubbed me the wrong way if you want we want lightning to be an alternative for people to use for everyday payments we got to do

better yeah and we're not with you there yeah i agree with you there i think a lot of people are going to be looking at this and saying you know how can i trust my my like you said their day-to-day think about like bitcoin jungle or bitcoin Beach, where you really do need these things to just work. And if your node is not working, well, you got a problem. That's a big deal. And it's too bad that this happened. But I don't know. I was starting to think, Len, that there's a sort of reckoning. Maybe reckoning is the wrong word but like a rather large um you know conflict issue coming in the developer space uh lightning core whatever right a lot of these guys who basically never went on any podcasts starting to see them more and more guys like mechanic for example um you know a lot

of a lot of uh what he says I agree with. He just did Sed's podcast the other day. I listened to it this morning. It was pretty good. These guys don't want to be doing this, but I think they're starting to feel like they have to. And I think the concern that they have about the quality of work getting done on Bitcoin now, I think it's a real issue that we should all be paying attention to. This is another good example, kind of a side effect, but yeah, something that is going to affect you one way or another. What you don't want is for your developers to become apathetic and for BlackRock to take over, you know, debbing corn. You can't have that. But, you know, every

day you lose a dev or you have a dev that gets more and more detached from the job or from the project, it's not a good day for Bitcoin. Let's wrap this Bitcoin episode up. Hockey starts in a few minutes. We'll just cut this one a little bit shorter altogether, even with the notable side. Sure. Sure. Yeah. I think it's a good time to end this one.

Thanks for listening yes i thought you're gonna add another story no i just want to say one thing i was saying this shout out to everybody in the chat think of all the people here that are listening and watching us rather than watching the pregame there's i can see on our screen so i can see i'll tell you guys how many people most weeks by this time there's close to 200 people uh across spaces youtube today there's only 110 oh i get that it's a beautiful day too it's about to drop to 16 or 17 when the game starts so it's not just that it's we have the price of bitcoin went down there's a lot going on yeah so whatever listen we love you guys all the same you're right boom dust shout out to you guys

uh okay no notables coming up stay here or don love you guys all the same. You're right. Boom dust. Shout out to you guys. Okay. No notables coming up. Stay here or don't. You guys know, know the drill. All right. Don't be a cock. Are you a fan of the old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show?

The NHL 94 podcast from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube