The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #171 (Bitcoin News Stories) - THE PRICE IS DOWN BUT THE VIBES ARE HIGH

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast, episode number 171. My name is Joey. That's Len. This is the CBP Media Network. 54,000 54. Oh,

what the hell is this? Like, what is this? Silence. I thought you were pulling, um, Mitch McConnell. I mean, listen,

I saw KJP today, lose control of the press gaggle for the first time in a long time. Uh, because somebody either figured out on their own or it's in the logs or it was leaked that they've had a neurological expert come to the white house eight times in the last little while and they didn't think it was important to mention it and the guys don't you have somebody like that come to your house like every couple of weeks i have somebody showing up here this guy this guy

len like they want him out so bad and his wife is just keeping him in the water do not get out of the water no you know what i've learned too of all through all this thing before we go any further i wasn't aware but all the donations that have been done to date, they're his. Yeah. Yeah. They go to Kamala. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So if somebody else comes in all that money, I guess we'll be returned to them,

but there's going to be a delay and it creates a whole problem. So, you know, okay. So there's, there's precedent for this, right? I was listening to all in,

they were talking a bit about this and I guess in the past, I don't remember if it was that podcast or another one in the past, though, there was a candidate that was basically like, you know, destined to lose. And what they did, I can't remember which political party, I think it might have been the Republicans, you know, it's probably Democrats, actually, they basically just stopped funding the campaign with a few months to go, and just put the money back in the Democratic Party coffers, which is the other option. They can't just give it to another candidate, but they can keep it for the party. So, you know, maybe that's the trick, you know, Kamala. I don't know, Len. Listen, I'm sure we'll talk about it tonight in the notable news story section. So maybe we'll drop this there and talk about the sponsors. EasyDNS. What a segue. If you want to get a website and host a domain, Mark is your guy. Go to ezns.com and check out the suite of services. They got everything there, virtual private server stuff. They got email. You can actually buy a domain with Mark if you want to, which we have done

a couple of times now. And all that stuff is sort of best in class at this point, I would say. Every week, it seems like there's another Bitcoin or another Bitcoin company complaining about their registrar, complaining about their website, complaining about their shop or whatever. I've never heard anybody complaining to Mark. So if you're not using Mark yet, it's time to start. EasyDNS.com, promo code is CBPMedia. And you can get 50% off your first round of buys. Not that you need it

because even if you had to pay full price you'd still be saving time and money dealing with him instead of dealing with these other clowns that are it seems to be they seem to be populating the internet uh you know and just filling it with this other kind of shitty uh registrar options and services so uh yeah you should be going to easy ns.com that's where i would be going if i was uh starting something up. And we did. So, you know, we're putting our money where our mouth is. Who's the other sponsor?

Yeah, Bull Bitcoin. Right. You mentioned the price of Bitcoin at the start of the show, Joey. Maybe a good opportunity. This is not financial advice. To buy Bitcoin. Maybe a good opportunity. Again, that's not financial advice.

To sell Bitcoin. Do your own research. You know, I'm giving you nothing, no advice here. Just simply information. But Bitcoin as you covered, you can buy and sell on-chain. You can do it through Lightning. I'll be honest, I did not check the fees today if the network fees spiked. If they're higher, then I would suggest

They're low. Very low. They're very low. So still on-chain. Go on-chain all the way. Consolidate your UTXOs as well. That's a different topic altogether. But nonetheless, buy with Bitcoin. With Bitcoin, buy on-chain. And if you even want to do with Lightning, they have the option available for you to do that.

You can buy and sell through Lightning, buy and sell on-chain. So really cool stuff over there. But you can also pay your bills. Now the price of Bitcoin went down a little bit. Maybe not the best time to start paying your bills with your Bitcoin, but you can do that with Bull Bitcoin. So if you have a bill that you want to pay, maybe several months overdue mortgage payment, well, you can sell your Bitcoin,

you could then use the Bull Bitcoin to facilitate that payment. Also, you could buy gift cards with your Bitcoin. And with that, you could buy, you know, Home Depot gift cards, Starbucks, whatever the heck you want to buy. And then you can kind of indirectly spend your Bitcoin in the real world. So what you're buying these gift cards with your bitcoin and then spending that in the real world so it's kind of living on a bitcoin standard and of course well bitcoin is facilitating all these purchases for you check it out if you haven't yet opened an account do so our promo code is below and if you do that and fund your account 21 bucks will be added to your account no questions asked and last thing it's not custodial such a good thing.

We don't want custodial exchanges. We don't like them all that much. It's in my opinion. Speaking of custodial exchanges, last week's guest, Carlo Campisi, policy at ShakePay, and Professor Stefano DiDomenico. I had fun talking to those guys.

Stef is an interesting character to me because he is looking into Bitcoin as a guy who's new-ish to the space and really let it absorb him. And he became absorbed by it vis-a-vis his academic work. So he's doing a lot of research, I should say, which ShakePay very generously funded and provided data for in terms of figuring out, Len, who are the Bitcoiners? What is a Bitcoiner? Who is the median Bitcoiner? Are we smarter? Are we more financially literate? Are we as psycho as the New York Times seems to think or whatever publication that was

that called us names? That was a fun interview. I look forward to talking to them again. And I told Steph after the show that anything we can do to promote his research, we will do it. So if he wants to come back on, they want to talk about some more studies, they want to talk to us about whatever, I am happy to help with that. This week, tomorrow, no, Wednesday, I'll be talking to Jeff Lucas,

who's the CFO of Biff Farms. Normally Len would do the mining interviews, but I'm going to take this one because I have some questions that I think are important as far as, I don't know, what's the term? Not culture, but maybe mining. The state of the union in corporate mining in major miners. It's an interesting time to be a miner. Obviously, they just brought on Ben Gagnon as their CFO. He was their chief mining officer before, or CEO, I should say today. And so I want to talk to them about what they're doing over there. You and I have, I think, while singing their praises, at least thought a bit about how the business model is going to work over there,

going forward with all these other big miners moving toward data centers slash HPC slash AI as a secondary rev stream, or at least as a primary rev stream or in some cases a primary rev stream and they haven't done that so i'm interested in having that conversation next monday let's that's not that's not close i just are you going to be asking the question about what's riots talking about there's that 100 100 i'm going to yeah i mean how could i not i i i'll say that they just i was talking to them before there's an email in the show inbox asking for the talking points. And I gave a few, but I didn't include that one. That's obviously going to be on there.

Because I have never seen a hostile takeover attempt like this. So Riot posted on X. There's a new website called abetterbitfarms.com. This is a riot run website and they're talking about what they say broken corporate governance within bitfarms this is straight from riot not my words i'm reading it verbatim how is that legal how is that legal i like that's another thing i'd be curious about that seems to me to be awfully close to i mean maybe libel i don't know this is slanderous libelous i'm not sure but you got to have some real evidence and it seems to me like broken governance structures

are really more subjective than objective i haven't read the website yet but i will in advance of wednesday's show and of course i didn't yeah i still haven't i'm gonna click i'm gonna click it and and of course um you know sort sort of CBP throwback here. Since I am not super up on mining these days, if you guys have questions, I would love to hear them. I know I got a few from our guy, SB, in terms of the HPC stuff. He's big on miners. And so I asked him, what are the things I should be talking to these guys about?

He gave me some good ideas. And I'm always looking for good ideas, ladies and gentlemen. So if you have any and you want me to, uh, to be the front man for your question, uh, hit me up. Let me know.

You guys know how to get ahold of me. So, and then Monday next week, I won't say who, but, uh, we are bringing on, I'll be away.

So we are bringing on a throwback CBP favorite, uh, to guest host the show. Someone you guys know. And I think, you know, really think really enjoyed when the show was kind of in its infancy. And we talked with this guy a lot on the air and off the air too. He's been a good friend to Len and I on the show. And I'm looking forward to seeing him back on our air. You know, Len, I half wish I didn't make the suggestion.

I should have saved it for when you are away and done it with him. uh it's too late now the cat's out of the bag so i you know you're lucky i really did uh i did hit you with that one that's gonna be a banger i think i gave you scribe so it's not like i gave you scribe is good scribe was good too i know we actually we actually used him a couple times right, right? We used them on the interview with Brian. Jeez, what was his name? Oh, Kernighan. Kernighan, exactly. And he was much more competent a sidekick than I would have been for that interview.

Yeah. Look, Scribe, he knows his stuff. He's a very smart guy. And I was thankful he was able to come on when I wasn't willing to come on. That's the only times I'd show up. know any questions i've gotten about that people message me and they're like i can't like we can't tell if you're serious did len actually skip that show because of the guest on monday or the guest on wednesday night i'm like yeah oh yeah he took the week off he's protesting conscientiously you know i'll give you another example i've been been a... What podcast do I

talk about a lot that's... Yeah, of course, WBD, yeah. I've taken them totally out of my rotation in entirety just because they speak... I can't get into it because this is... But I will be very vague. Says one thing,

does another. You see Tom and Nick just had them, or Tom just had him on your life returns pbd not pbd um wbd mccormick not oh no not that david no no okay pbd that's yeah but pbd you know i i got pissed off what he did he says one thing and did something else and from then he's out of my rotation uh mccormick was out of my rotation a long time ago so yeah like whatever i just i stand by certain things and you know you're you know you are nothing if not uh if not principled angry yeah yeah yeah well that reminds me we got to put a clip out there tonight for all caps about you talking about the etf and self-custody i told him that etf is not self-custody etf no no he knows that he knows

that he wants to hear we'll talk about this during the gox are we we have gox on the docket tonight uh yeah we do okay we'll get there i won't even i won't even have to prompt you you'll say it anyways so okay let's talk about boosts because we do have that. I like to get that off my chest. Top five boosts of the week. Number five, we got wartime, 333 sats. Excellent rip. Good takes. God bless.

Thank you. Piez. I hope I pronounced his name correctly. 420 sats. Good number, by the way. Thank you, gentlemen, with a couple of beer mugs on there. So like that one as well. We know that means cheers now.

That's what we know. That means cheers now. Yeah. Moe BTC Dick, 500 sats. Someone give the Bitcoin price a hock to a grease that price up a bit on that thing. The chic to come out and do that. He was the original hot guy. Listen, that's that's advice for life for sure.

Yeah. Okay. Duggan Roopup 1025 sats he writes can't wait to see how their work develops and industry-funded research is great to see from shake pay yeah i also like the idea of a why are we bitcoin academics btc sessions hat tip podcast i think I think Ben could pull that off. It sounds like Stefano, I don't want to speak for him. I don't want to speak out of turn about people I've never met,

but it sounds like maybe they're just a tad gun shy to get out in front of this whole thing before it's released. So you might see that in the future, but I think for now, probably that show with me and Carlo is the most you're going to get. Plus he did the conference too, right? He was just speaking about this study in Montreal as well. So he's been out, but my understanding is that it's kind of in poor taste to do too

much without your colleagues before publishing. So soon, but not yet. But I totally agree. I strongly agree with the sentiment. And last but not least, we have shirtless summer 3000 sats great content as always wish the vagrants would steal the 30 kilometer signs going up all over here in victoria bc no rash of kids getting run over but we must all drive 30 kilometers per hour yeah that's standard my uncle um has a great take on this that when my wife and I were first looking for houses like 70 years ago, he said, you know, go through the house, go through the neighborhood during the day and count the number of traffic interference laws and regs and obstacles you're going to have to get over whether it's speed bumps or 30 kilometer

speed limits there's a direct correlation between those things and the number of lululemon stroller pushers and uh len i gotta say living up there for six seven years he was right and down here the per capita stroller lululemon is very high and the speed limit is very low so i uh i think there's something to that i don't know we gotta look into that can we get some academic research on that is that uh feasible you think no i could give you some psychic thoughts on this i'm picturing speed bumps coming in your area call them speed humps by the way speed humps which also like you know that's usually what i do on like a wednesday afternoon if my wife is home for lunch or something but why not speed bumps what happened to that they're because they're because they can't in good faith be called bumps like they're fucking huge they're

enormous they'll rip the bottom off your car if you go over them any faster than 10 kilometers an hour it's it's insane how how hard how high and how wide they are there you go so you're gonna get some speed humps in your area that's from my psychic thinking right now so you're ready your suspension is gonna be replacing every couple years as a result at least man at least one other two other programming notes before i forget three other ones actually because you forgot one already last week i went to a meetup in dundas organized by our buddy, D. Decent turnout. Next meetup, I want to see more people.

I didn't do a good job advertising it on this show. I should have. It was the Collins Brewhouse. There was probably seven, eight, nine of us, maybe something like that. Really good to talk to Bitcoiners as always. And BTC Beef was there. I don't want to say who it was in relation to the whole group, because I'm not sure if everyone knows,

but anyway, definitely come to the next one. I'll, I'll maybe send a tweet out or something, or we'll talk about it on the show. Next week's interview is a prerecorded interview. I did with made X on day one of the conference. So no video,

no live chat, but it'll be on the feed audio and and video like usual and then also we're supposed to give a shout out to gabe for uh well not just to gabe first it's going to be the ottawa bitcoin meetup is going to be at the north gloucester public library at 6 30 p.m and gabe aka btc advisors is going to be there he's been on the show what day wednesday wednesday at uh 6 30 p.m eastern time i'm not going it's too far of a drive yeah a bit of a drive to ottawa gloucester i guess from uh from here but anyway i've done the day trip to ottawa and i've actually i've watched the senator this is many years ago when the leafs were actually in the playoffs

i guess they're the playoffs this year but i watched the Leafs play the Senators Sunday night. What iteration of the Leafs? Like the Wendell Clark Leafs? Or the Darcy Tucker Sundin Leafs? This is Darcy Tucker, but Sundin was injured in this playoff. So it was Gary Roberts was carrying the Leafs that year and it was that series. It was game six in Ottawa.

I think that was game six and Leafs won, took it back to game seven and we went to the game Sunday night. I went to work Monday morning, drove back stupidly fast. And it was a different time. Same car though. Different time, same car. Yeah.

So this was a time before you could go 50 over the limit and not have your license suspended. So allegedly the car was going about two times faster than the speed limit, allegedly. And so I got from the, think about this, from the Coral Center, wherever the fuck it's called now, the Coral Center, we left, and I got to Weston and Lawrence in Toronto in two hours and 45 minutes. That's insane. Fucking flew. That's insane.

I cannot repeat that these days, especially with that car. It's not going to be able to maintain that speed. But yeah, do it again if the at least uh had a big run and uh i was back in hockey not in hockey anymore uh god anyway so where should we start here we got okay let's talk about news what do you yeah okay i think there's some events going on intro is that the longest intro we've ever had by the the way? 18 minutes of housekeeping. Jesus Christ. It'd be amazing if anyone sticks around for the rest. There's a lot of banter back and forth.

I like it. But either way, there's two events. It looks like they're spooking Bitcoiners or at least people that are buying and selling and trading Bitcoin. Where the fuck? Number one, we have what's going on in Germany. They're selling off a decent amount of Bitcoin. And this may be part of the reason maybe wholly the reason why the price of bitcoin has gone down i don't know

to be honest i really don't care it's a good time to buy in my humble opinion not financial advice of course but the second thing we also have mount gox right we have that thing we'll talk about that a little bit more in a few minutes but either way they're selling off their bitcoin or sorry the creditors may be selling off their bitcoin because they're now releasing it to the people that they owe they're getting pennies on a dollar from all this but still they're getting a pretty big uh payday in the grand scheme of things in terms of fiat dollars we talked to somebody i don't want to mention who you're talking 10 000 percent gains basically right like an insane amount even if it's pennies on the dollar like it's still you, you know, it potentially could be life changing for some people. I'm not gonna say that it would

be for this person, but either way, but as for the first one, I was talking about Germany selling off their Bitcoin. And this past week, up until today, they sold off around 10,000 Bitcoin in the past few weeks combined significant amount of Bitcoin that they sold right like but you got to do an got to take a step back here right 450 bitcoin is being mined right now every day we just had to having three months ago four months ago april whenever that took place but back then it was 900 bitcoin per day now it's 450 so the 10 000 bitcoin that they sold up until today represents only about 22 days of mining under the current block rewards right so it's a lot but it's not a crazy amount it's just like we rolled back the clock a few months and went to the old issuance of you know do you know what's encouraging

to len like they sold today almost a billion dollars worth, it looks like, if the wallet addresses are correct. And we absorbed all of it. We're green for the day. That's insane. That's a lot of demand. That's a lot of demand for Bitcoin. A lot. And you could see, I don't follow the chart, but it dropped really quickly.

But then it picked back up almost as quick as it dropped. It was a lot. These guys don't know how to sell, by the way. You're not supposed to just market sell 1,000 coins at once or whatever. You're supposed to trickle it out so you don't move the market. They're really eating their own lunch in a lot of ways doing it this way, but they don't know anything over there. They went from sort of captains of industry in Germany

to completely arsehole in the last 10 years. Because they confiscated it from some like illegal movie site years ago yes and i think i think they need money i think they've they're not a productive economy anymore they they're in need of a cash infusion i mean let every government thinks this way right we've yeah here in ontario we've done it canada we've done it other european nations have done it like they just can't help themselves they don't think long term at all they don't you know and they're not going to borrow against it these guys land come on right you could you could really go down because come on who are they going to call marizio i have we got we got a couple billion in bitcoin marizio do you mind you know like maybe he would help him i don't know maybe he hates the

government enough that he did not answer the phone i'm not sure maybe they could with the silver gate before they went tits up last year but the reality is they're selling it and it's not like they're forced to sell it because they're if they were forced to sell it because this was contraband and they want to get rid of the bitcoin the proceeds that they're going to get from it they would then just basically get rid of it they wouldn't you know what i mean like the fact that they're using the money for something it's evaporating at an unbelievable pace too right like think about how fast they would spend that money days weeks a week max like you know it's just gone crazy absolutely insane this is so short-sighted meanwhile like in the united states you got one political party now talking about Bitcoin as a policy item.

If you had told me the States was more backwards than Europe when I was 20, I would have said for sure. But obviously now, I've seen the light in the last 10 years. What a difference. Anyway, I don't want to cut you off. Keep going. Well, what happened? It was the Republican Party. They announced-

The Trump campaign. Yeah. It's protecting mining, protecting self-custody no cbdc no uh there's like four or five points nick carter has it pretty succinct what's the correlation between the cbdc and bitcoin i just think i just think it's well i mean there's enough of it that we talk about sometimes i just think that it's like uh you know it's like a choose your way western man meme sort of you know what do you want do you want the sort of freedom of bitcoin uh p2p transactions you can verify on your own with no centralization no third party no censorship or at least very very resistant censorship or do you want the the wef coin you know what do you want you want uh

klaus or klaus's daughter whoever uh takes over up there now that he's being accused of sexual misconduct. LOL. Moron. I don't even know. But there's a world that I could see that there is a CBDC with it being backed by Bitcoin. I'm not saying this is going to happen, but it's within the realm of possibility. So you could potentially have

both operating within the same system. So there's not mutually exclusive. I think you're right. That's why when you talk about CBDC, it's's just another form of money but i like that they're banning it like i like it even if they don't actually ban it like let's face it i don't trust any politician at this point um but even if they don't actually ban it at least we know that as a base we're making enough noise your Your buddy, David Bailey today, making a good point that if the crypto industry, and he uses the term crypto, I don't know if I would use it, but I think for politics, I've said this in the past, I think I would use it for political reasons.

If the crypto industry raises $300 million, we're the biggest interest group in American politics immediately, basically short of oil and gas. And the other thing he noted is that if one in five people hold Bitcoin, like Coinbase seems to think, or hold crypto, like Coinbase seems to think, that's already the biggest one-issue voting base in history, if everyone is as passionate as you and me are. And so the way I look at this, I see that stuff and I love it, but we're getting kind of getting far afoot from Germany here. I think it's just all sort of, you know,

at the very least tangentially connected, I would say. Well, they're also saying that the right to mine Bitcoin and self-custody, there's no, there's nothing stopping anything from coming. Well, sure.

It's Liz. Liz and the boys don't want you to self-custody. But there's no legislation right now. These guys want it. These guys don't. Yeah. Not now. So you have two, two opposing parties, not to say that one is going to happen or the other is not going to is going to happen just nothing has happened so to date i could mine bitcoin in

my garage to date i could run a node to date i could self-custody yes there's nothing stopping me so yeah it's kind of just pandering more than anything but if they want to do it more all the more power to them i want to see those rights i want to see those rights enshrined and protected in law i think because that i can hold 12 words or 24 words like how can you it could that like how that is that doing so does not subject you to a difficult life under under a modern government and really that's all this boils down to right there's there's not a lot of things that are illegal and enforceable in Bitcoin, but man, can they ever make your life difficult.

And I think they will, as things continue to go sideways in most of the modern world. But anyway, I don't want to- We've had a year in Canada and that people were able to stack very comfortably a way which could easily be mitigating a lot of these problems. So hopefully people took advantage of that.

And anyway, we talked about this a little bit at the meetup on Thursday. And I'll share it because I think it's a testament to Francis and the team over at Bull. There's people at that meetup who I had not met before. And all of them sort of knew about the podcast or knew that we did the podcast and that Bull was sponsoring. We were talking about the non-KYC thing. And Len, these guys actually all think that basically everything you buy with Bull is non-KYC. Because they just have so much faith in Francis basically burning the house down before he gives up information about people to any government that asks. So I can't speak on it.

I could just say like, I won't say yes or no. I won't say yes or no either, but yeah. Yeah. As for what I see, the prevailing sentiment at this meetup was, uh,

all KYC free or all, all corn bought on bull Bitcoin is in, in, you know, pragmatic terms. KYC free, which would be nice, but you know,

I think there's other ways it would be nice otherwise trace it to though right i'm pretty sure like you if you're doing any transfers and stuff like that be aware as uh marty and matt like to say be aware don't um don't get caught with your pants down yeah and melcox i guess it's another thing uh i just touched on we could talk a little bit more about it so they're handing back some of the bitcoin and bitcoin cash to some of their creditors i guess even bsv too there's a few things yeah because the airdrops right is that how it works like the the token yeah sorry forks god i should airdrops jesus christ yeah the forks exactly yeah so all those forks that have just even some value people i suspect this is just my opinion

the people that bought bitcoin in 2013 and then got wrecked as a result of what happened with mount gox i don't think a lot of them are going to sell bitcoin they understand the fundamentals of bitcoin yeah sure they made massive gains for kind of hodling it for the last 11 years. But why, unless they need the money and they have to buy something, you know, the people, the thought that I've seen prevailing again, I'm terrible cutting you off tonight,

but I like I've had too many coffees. So I'm a little bit wired. The, the thing I keep seeing on Twitter that really makes the most sense to me, Len, is that the people who are getting Bitcoin released to them from the Gox, the Gox legal proceedings are the ones who have not sold their coins for some percentage of the total outcome or output to some creditor agency. They haven't sold their claims. And

I think people who are getting Bitcoin at this point are either hodlers, have bought more Bitcoin since, or have no intentions to sell the whole stack. So I don't think you're going to get maximum sell pressure on the stuff that's being released now. So in my opinion, I'm not really that worried about Gox. It seems like a lot of people are, though. You're right. It's spooking people. It's a fud. Now, this is, again, my personal opinion.

I could be wrong. But I think i share your thoughts they're probably not going to sell for the most part bitcoiners that are going to get their bitcoin probably a few that are going to sell they need money for something you know and that's fine yeah but the majority won't but i think that people are holding on all those forked tokens or coins they're going to sell those for sure right because i don't think that they believe what is that stuff even worth um bitcoin cash i have no idea was it all look i'll look keep talking keep talking so they're i think they're gonna sell that not that it represents a huge amount

but still it's going to be probably driving down pressure on those shit coins but either way with respect to bitcoin because that's something we should be focusing more on i don't think the whole mount cox scenario is going to be really going to be impacting the price of bitcoin all that much although i could be wrong and if i am better time to stack it'll be cheap joy you got the numbers what do you think it's worth one bitcoin cash it's a lot more than i thought it was is it five hundred dollars is my guess no is it 330 i would have guessed like $100. It's $330. So I overstated it.

Yeah. BSV is the other one you said? Yeah. I'll guess $50 to $75. This isn't even on Coinbase, eh? Jeez. Okay. No, they delisted that one everywhere in the past.

They got 51% attacked. That one's 36 dollars that was double the price all right so all shit so they're all gonna go like people that you know if i got some of that first i'd find a place where i could sell it i don't know where to how i could sell it i'd find a place to sell it the second thing i wouldn't fucking sell it i wouldn't sorry i want to keep it just get rid of it right away like it's a fucking joke keep the bitcoin sell the rest you're insane insane yeah i don't know anything else you want to add to these two stories because yeah i think this is really the the driving factor yeah a lot all caps turn the tiktok camera on um len can you give me a quick rundown on how you know people who are worried about losing their coins in Gox or who lost their coins in Gox really is a lesson for people who are relying on the ETFs, never rug pulling or losing the coins?

Well, there are two different things, number one. So you have to look at each one separately. Although a lot of people kind of miss confiscate the two things like, oh, sorry, sorry. They confuse confuse the two things as being one in a way, but they're not. The ETF is, we'll use you as an example. I give you money. You buy Bitcoin for me. You manage it. And then at the end, when I want it, you sell it.

You sell it. You give it to me. That's what it is. I don't hold my keys. I don't touch my keys. There's no way for me to even get my keys. It's simply I'm just giving you fiat. You give me back fiat.

We call it a day. Now, as per what you do with that Bitcoin, depending on how it's written up in the prospectus, they could choose whatever fork they want based on whatever, whatever they want. So theoretically, you could be buying in to exposure to Bitcoin. But if there is a fork along the way and they choose to follow that fork, then your money is going to be tied towards that fork, not towards what you think may be Bitcoin. So there is some risk to it. And the fact that you're having somebody else manage your keys, you're having somebody else figure out what fork or what quote unquote Bitcoin to follow. It becomes really problematic later on.

So it's just not a big fan of that. Also, when you do that, you are of the belief that you're going to get your money back in the end. If you think there's going to be any capital controls at all, that's going to be put in the future. Why would you put any eggs in that basket? So that's that. So with respect to Mt.

Gox, when you're buying a Mt. Gox or any exchange, any custodial exchange, don't leave it on there. Take it off immediately or use a non-custodial exchange. When you buy anything on these custodial exchanges, you're asking them to hold on to your Bitcoin. You can get your keys once you ask them to send it to you. But a lot of people apparently don't. They believe that it's safe for them to hold on to it. They have access to it until they don't until something happens there's a hack or they just run out of money ftx for instance and

then they just lost access to it celsius in fact we'll be talking about celsius in a bit so either one are bad if i had to choose which is the better of the two i don't even know neither i can't even pick which is the better to choose. They both present, you know, well, a unique set of risks, a lot of the same problems. It's not yours. You are risking it in someone else's hands. And you just do not know what negative externalities could cause you to be able to not be able to withdraw your coins, your fiat or anything in between. You know, you're You're giving the most generous interpretation of potential events there, a hack or a bankruptcy. How about if you donate to

the wrong protest? How about if you are a gun owner? How about if you tweet the wrong thing or start the wrong podcast or have the wrong guest on your podcast. These things are risky, no matter how you slice it. And if you don't solve custody, you should assume that you're not going to get it. We assume this, by the way, with other stuff. Pension's a great example. All the money that I'm giving to CPP, I don't assume I'm going to get back. It's gone. It's forcibly basically taken from me without my consent. And I believe that it's gone. You should view these other vehicles. I think largely the same way. It doesn't mean it will happen,

but you will be better off having this adversarial mindset when it comes to everything. It's not self custody period. End of story. There's something I want to add to this. The Celsius story. I'm not sure if you heard about what happened with celsius this past week that somebody was reporting it's an absolute disaster for people who aren't aware celsius was

the place in exchange you could buy bitcoin shit coins you could do staking they had their own specials their own token right yeah their own token yeah so it but it went tits up a couple years ago and so i gotta ask you with an exchange this is my opinion what you could do with it maybe you could add to this or correct me if i'm wrong you could buy you could sell you could trade you could withdraw those are really the four things am i missing anything or i mean it depends on how you how you frame stuff like sell like shake pay will let you you know spend your bitcoin bull will let you spend your bitcoin i would personally frame those as sales yeah i think i think yeah i think you have

the full list yeah okay so that's basically so one of them is you could it could keep it on there right so you can just leave it there buy and just simply hold right uh withdraws the other one so buy then withdraw so i'm looking at the withdraw one this user on X, his name is med X m e d x. And he posted something that's rather troubling, because he was a customer of Celsius. And he did what a lot of people do when they are users of an exchange, he bought Bitcoin, or something else. And he took his shit off the exchange. This is not something extraordinary. This is not something out of the, you know, very just talked about this is what people fucking do they buy shit they withdraw it that's fine either way but he did this within the 90 days that celsius went tits up as a result celsius has launched a lawsuit against him and a

bunch of other people in the state of new york he's in the state of new york so i don't know much about the other users that are being sued. But it seems like Celsius is under the impression that these folks had some insider information, some inside knowledge, and they knew something was going to come up. So they withdrew their their digital assets from the exchange before they got rug pulled. But then, now, a couple years later, they're getting sued by Celsius. And it's being alleged that the lawsuit is going to be used to pay help pay the customers that lost their funds in celsius so they're basically robbing one guy who rightfully got his money off the exchange to give it to somebody else who just

left it on there and trusted celsius this isn't right this is essentially a wake-up call for people out there choose your exchange wisely and we just talked just touched upon what to do, like what's the difference between ETFs and the exchanges. Even when you take your money off in a shitty exchange, you could get sued in the right situation. Like this fucking guy. What a disaster. Fuck you, Celsius. This guy did nothing wrong. He just fucking pulled his money.

He had no insider knowledge. He was doing like every fucking other user would do. Buy and put it on cold storage. Nothing else. He's getting fucking sued. Fuck you, man. money he had no insider knowledge he was doing like every fucking other user would do buy and put it on cold storage nothing else he's getting fucking sued fuck you man well why would they say you need inside information for any of this by the way like uh did you not see the interview with safedine and schiff and machinsky and maybe it was uh ran newer from CNBC South Africa or something like that, where Mashinsky's talking about how everyone can get 7%. And Schiff and Safedine are looking at each other for the first time,

seeing eye to eye, and they're going, like fucking hell you can. Like, what are you talking about, bro? It makes no fucking sense. Anyone who saw that interview would have immediately been like, oh, fuck, I got to get my money off this thing now. And so is that within 90 days? I don't know. But I think the more people that saw that and as more people on Twitter were like, yeah, listen, it doesn't seem like these

guys can actually be making that much yield because to get that yield, you'd have to be in some crazy risky stuff. And there's just no guarantee that if everyone went to pull at the same time, they'd have the money. And guess what, Len? They didn't have it. So I think this is sort of all for naught. They're sort of taking shots in the dark. I think in the United States, which is where FTX or Celsius was domiciled, there's still

some burden of proof. They can't just say that they're suing you for taking your money out without proving that you had inside information. What is your proof of this? I would just be burning those letters on YouTube streams all day and all night. There's no way you can make that claim to somebody. This is akin, I think, to the sort of CSW strategy, right? Where you pick on people who are a little scared, don't have legal representation, don't want to get in any shit. And so you come to some settlement maybe, but I doubt very much that any of this stuff is going to go anywhere unless people really bend the knee and decide they just don't want the trouble you know which would suck for them because

i don't think i'm not a lawyer and even if i was i'm not your lawyer listener viewer i don't think this is legit i don't think this is the way a way that you can do business no i don't know what type of legal advice celsius got and why they're trying to pursue action against these people in new york and it just it just rubs me the wrong way to like their cfo when they went hits up their cfo became their general counsel he's just uh you know taking shots in the dark remember we were in a chat not too long ago somebody was poking fun and posted that there's something that you could say can get 80% APY.

Like questioning about like where this fucking yield. Well, you can get it if it's in that token, but like, you know, if you denominate in that token, fine. But if you want actual money,

like, you know, that 80%, I think would shrink pretty quickly, you know, like, like Costanza in the pool there. I'm sure that you wouldn't get exactly what you were hoping for so you know this is the flywheel

economy that so many of these companies did and i talked about this in great detail with mike campbell maybe a year ago now ish uh about these flywheels when ftx went under and all this stuff like you know these guys are all running the same playbook and it doesn't work anymore and at least for now you know we'll see when the bull market really picks up some steam in the next few months i hope um whether or not these things continue to work but um in the meantime land i don't know it's good good fodder for us right put these guys in the meat grinder send them to the front lines of the podcast uh headlines and enjoy talking about them is machines getting jailed you get sentenced to jail?

I don't think so. If I'm wrong, listen to the reviewer because I don't think he... I think he's still out. That's crazy. I'll never forget that interview. That interview is amazing. Watching I'm pretty sure it's Safedine and Schiff. It is. They're both just like absolutely nuts.

Like nuts, bro. Listen, I know we don't agree on everything we agree on this i'm curious like why would he go to i because this was a fraud involved like what was the what's the situation yeah i think i think he knew they were having trouble and hit it uh if i remember correctly i don't know exactly what the um the charges or allegations were but i know he did get charged so i mean i could look it up but doesn't make good content on the internet yeah let's talk about a story that we were discussing a few weeks back and remember it was to do with vulnerabilities in older versions of bitcoin core and they said

they were going to be releasing information um as to what they are well they released it this past week which is interesting and this is for bitcoin core versions 21 and older these are fairly old releases so if you're still running them i'd recommend running something a little newer unless you're forced to run these for whatever reason or by choice maybe you don't want to have taproot or whatever whatever your choice either way um so the vulnerabilities we got in what they are was 10 in total, there could be more, I guess there are because they say they're gonna be releasing this information or more information as we go on. So it's going to come in four different flavors as

they release information with vulnerabilities, not just in core version 21 and older, but even newer ones. So the different flavors are low bugs, and that has hard to exploit or have a low impact. Medium bugs for limited impact, high bugs for significant impact and critical that could threaten the whole network integrity.

So as they say it, the low bugs, they're going to disclose two weeks after a fixed version is released. The medium and high will be disclosed two weeks after last affected version is released the medium and high will be disclosed two weeks after last affected release goes end of life and if critical bugs are not considered a standard policy and will most likely require an ad hoc procedure so starting this month july

they're going to be releasing vulnerabilities that are disclosed or known in bitcoin core version 22 august bitcoin Core version 23 gets the same treatment and so forth. And they're going to go through this whole exercise until they've complete all the different versions of Core. It's too bad they waited so long to release some of this information. We're not going to know everything for months.

And at least now they have a new scheduling a new policy whether you like it or not it's at least it's more transparent it is what it is um it's too bad it took so long in my opinion but here we are who came up with the policy i don't know i would assume it would be done internally without much consultation with the outside world but i could be wrong i'm like the what i'm getting at is to me this sounds like the c word a little bit that we very rarely use in bitcoin and uh a cock centralized it sounds a bit centralized and i don't know i don't know like how i feel about this i'm curious to hear your thoughts i think we both agree that this is an important step but everything from conception to execution

here by a small group of people says to me that, you know, you're certainly, if there is a case to be made that Bitcoin is being quote unquote run or developed or maintained by just a few people, instead of this, like, no, it's open source. Anyone can contribute. This is a good thing that the SEC and other agencies would look at, right? I think this is a good thing that the SEC and other agencies would look at. Right. I think this is an example. And I hope these guys considered that before they made this statement, because it sounds to me like they didn't consider it.

And I think that this puts a target on them. Well, that's their problem. I guess. I guess. But the reality is the bugs themselves. I mean, if you look at them individually they're not game changers they're not something that that makes bitcoin any less usable or that your coins were at risk so we prefer to have it a little bit more open and transparent i think they're they're moving

towards that in the end like it's still open source we could still look at everything we could still review everything there's there's a lot more to this that a lot of others don't have um so yeah it's it's not that bad in my opinion not that great not that bad okay all right all right yeah i just want to throw it out there see what you thought but okay no no problem silvergate remember this bank oh sure how could i not so yeah this is a bank that was involved with it was a lot of companies in the bitcoin space they were actually lending out a lot of money to bitcoin miners for instance and because bitcoin miners a couple years ago were just expanding and silvergate was aggressive with lending out money to these mining copy

mining companies to expand but either way that all took place up until March 2023, and Silvergate at that time voluntarily liquidated their assets. And that's when shit really hit the fan because the price of Bitcoin tanked just a few months earlier. Anyways, the parent company, Silvergate Capital Corp., they have been charged by the SEC for misleading investors. Oh, my God. And this all stems from allegations that the bank had an

effective bank secrecy act slash anti-money laundering program but in reality they didn't have one so and these charges they were ultimately settled 43 million dollars to the federal reserve and another 20 million to the california regulator so what's messed up about this is that the sec was making claims that silvergate didn't detect any suspicious transfers by ftx they were one of their customers those transfers totaled around nine billion dollars remember alameda research and ftx there were some shenanigans going on and looks like silvergate was in the middle of all this maybe having the money transferred from one place to another either way it's a black eye in the industry another one banks that are going to be dealing with bitcoin businesses moving forward they're going to look

at this and i think it's going to be more problematic for businesses to want to get any exposure to banks either through getting loans maybe even fucking getting an account set up yeah this could this could make it. Do you think this is legit? Do you think this is a legit claim? If I go back and think about Silvergate, what I see is that they were picked on by the SEC, basically forced to close up shop on a Sunday night. And then the SEC said that all the other weakness

in the banking system stem from this thing and their involvement with crypto, if I remember correctly. And to me, this is an ongoing battle to make difficult the lives of people involved in Bitcoin and crypto vis-a-vis banking, as you mentioned, this idea of choke point 2.0. And I look at stories like this and I just think, how many other frauds have we talked about where the SEC didn't do anything to protect them? To protect like creditors, to protect clients, to protect. I mean, there's a new fraud every day that pops up.

The SEC doesn't give a shit about that. Any of it. And this thing they're still going after. What? Are we like a year and a half now at this point? I think this was like March of 23. If I'm correct, I think. So this had to do with FTX and ftx was almost two years ago

so it's even longer than your time yeah yeah i'm not i'm not saying they're not they weren't they weren't doing business with the x but i think the claim itself is i think it's frivolous honestly the fact that they settled though granted it's i guess peanuts and settling is it settling is not a function of guilt it's a function of time and expense right like this is no it always is this is the thing people didn't get about trump oh trump settled all these things out of court like yeah if he's got to spend three days in court and settling is less than the cost of three days in court for him then you settle like it there's there's a calculus that the average person doesn't have access to that these guys do and i think this is another example that like i don't equate settling with any admission of any kind no nor should anyone else if you're an uh corporation

though it's not like you're sending just a single individual like donald trump and he he is the industry of donald trump yeah you could send anybody an FTX. And I'm not sure how the legal workings are in the United States, but if they win the court case, then you have legal claim to get all their legal expenses. No. No. So they pay for it all? Yes.

Seriously? There's no way to. No. So the SEC could just voluntarily charge anybody in there. Look at Elon. One of the big things about Elon's cases against the US government over the years is that he's got the money to pay for the the court costs there's no guarantee that the court costs be covered even if you win because you hardly ever win win you know like you you come

up with some other lesser charge because that's the calculation people make so how can they do that they're just they're saying you've done this yes we haven't done this oh but you've done something else that's the way to charge you for the yes but that's i don't know see that i don't understand the fucking legal i mean come on it's all like it's the way i look at it if they're nailing me on a cross i want to be dealt with all the allegations for that cross not the jason cross no all the crosses buddy they're moving across the cross i guess that's it for the bitcoin related stuff because we got a lot more of the uh notable news i think we'll be talking about so let's okay let's gtfo uh thanks for coming stay here if you're on video if you're on audio the rest will come tomorrow as always and until then

take care of yourself. Don't be a cock. Are you a fan of the old school NHL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast, from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.