The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #175 (Bitcoin News Stories) - The Market Crash of 2024

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

Friends and enemies, welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast number 175. Quiet day today, quiet evening yesterday, long weekend here in Canada. My name is Joey, that's Len. What does that mean? Moisturized, flourishing, relaxed, in my lane, unbothered, like fat Asian guy under a waterfall. That's how I feel today. Soaking it all in, right? That's right letting it wash off him yeah how are you doing over there what's going on now i'm sane i'm as sane as i've ever been i'm very clear in terms of what's going to happen moving forward with myself hopefully others are also as clear as i am right like you know let's be honest there's going to be so much that's going to happen get a bag of popcorn sit back and enjoy markets are burning uh we're gonna go to war it looks like world's on fire man yeah there's so many things whatever let's let's not go into it because

there's a few things we gotta touch before we're gonna further enjoy right sure sure easy dm uh had the pleasure of sitting down with uh mr jeff to vic for lunch yesterday okay len mark's gonna come in for talking about this. Faux pas or not faux pas? You go to lunch and you order nachos as your entree for lunch. Faux pas or not faux pas? Depends how much you know the guy or gal. No, no, no.

I ordered a sandwich. Mark ordered nachos. He wanted nachos for lunch. And by the way, they're in my fridge right now. Most of them are in my fridge. Thanks, Mark ordered nachos. He wanted nachos for lunch. And by the way, they're in my fridge right now. Most of them are in my fridge. Thanks, Mark, for that. I don't know what I'm going to do with them. Good or bad. Should you be ordering nachos for lunch?

I have no opinion. I don't know. So you have an opinion, obviously. I want to hear what it is. I told him at the time. I'm like, you can't fucking order nachos for lunch. That's not a lunch meal, but anyway. It was an opinion, obviously. I want to hear what it is. I told him at the time, I'm like, you can't fucking order nachos for lunch. That's not a lunch meal, but anyway. It was an appetizer then. What about that?

We got antihitos as an appetizer. So I have no... We were hammering, let me tell you, we were hammering the seed oils yesterday over lunch, but we did solve a lot of the world's problems. Anyway. No, you didn't because they're still around us and no one's asked me for the solutions yet but i have them when uh when they're ready so mark

came down we we uh we did enjoy a nice meal together spent a couple hours uh at a local spot good time as always and how do i know mark well he was guest on the show many moons ago but then he became a sponsor in front of ours so easy dns has been the sponsor of cvp i think we call him the presenting sponsor for uh i don't know year and a half now, something like that, maybe a little longer. And we use EasyDNS for our website. You can use EasyDNS to host your website if you want. If you want to buy a domain, bring a domain, you can do that. They have something called DomainSure as well. I mean, these guys really are all about two things, right? Making sure that you're up and making sure that you're never coming down. And it's hard to get that kind of service.

You look around the landscape for hosting providers and just general IT and IT-related services. And what do you see, Len? We talk about it every week on Accessive Easy. It's one gong show after another, but never over at MarkShop. MarkShop is always up. They got all kinds of stuff there for Bitcoiners, tons of goodies that you guys will love. Virtual private server stuff, chief among them. Can you say chief among them still? I don't know. Anyway, chief among them, virtual private server stuff. Let's

try not to laugh. And you can run a Bitcoin node, Nostor relay, BTC pay server, nodeless, whatever you want. I always say there's other stuff I'm forgetting. There probably is. But this is one of the best places for you to do this stuff, if not the best. And I'm saying that not just because Mark is a sponsor, but because, like I said, we use the service. And here at CBP, we've only ever had a few sponsors and always sponsors that we were using, supported, stood by, and are happy and, you know, I think proud to recommend. So if you want to go head over and start something,

whether it's a website or you want to start a little business, you want to start a little blog, I don't know, whatever you want. EasyDNS, CBP Media is the code. Tell Mark we sent you. Get half off, right? Your first round of buys. 50% off your initial purchase. So make sure it's a big one.

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from them to hold on to you when you buy your bitcoin from them you have to provide an address because it's going to be sent to it immediately great stuff they're mission oriented check them out can't beat it man and we got a third sponsor decentral tech i don't know what there's like what is the read for these guys we know jonathan a little bit i i've been a big fan of the idea that mining has to be decentralized further from where it is now you've also been on this train for a long time that the industrial miners on a long enough time horizon are a negative for network security. And I think a negative for the asset. If you want to start doing a little home mining, these guys have your back. They will sell you a miner. They'll repair that miner or another miner, whatever board you have and get you back online. These guys have, I don't want to say it. Actually, I will

say it. I don't care what Jonathan thinks. They have what he claims is the fastest board repairman in the world working in their shop. Did he or did he not say that? He did say that. Yeah. The fastest board repairman. Again, CBP, we do not

fuck around when it comes to sponsors. We've had other offers for people we don't even we don't take them with the phone calls are coming in we screen you guys keep asking the email the emails are coming we're not talking to you we're not taking your money we don't want it i want these guys to be partners with us uh what else you gotta say about the central tech this is my first time doing that read what else are we talking about bidax you can get the bidax over there there's different flavors Bidax. You can get the Bidax over there. There's different flavors of Bidax.

So you can get a hex, which you can get a little bit more hash power out of it, or you can get the single chip on. So with that, it's going to be quiet. You could have this running next to you where you're sleeping. You won't even notice it's there. It's wireless. Sorry, it's Wi-Fi, not wireless.

You still have to power it up somehow. But you can also get 110-volt quiet rigs like the Antminer Slim. That's another thing that they have available. We're kind of in the middle of summer, right? Let's not beat around the bush. But winter's coming up, and there's going to be people that need space heaters. Why not just use a Bitcoin miner to do that? They have options to sell you that you could do that so you could mine bitcoin all the while heating your home so check that out decentral technologies and yeah uh what else can i say about them we're gonna have jonathan on the show next month to talk a little more nice i gotta make time for that one if my football schedule allows i listen i i was on the show when

jonathan announced he uh i gotta say like not to do too much business on there. And I don't know if he said this last week, but I am always happy to see when sponsors are like, I want to announce ASAP. Like, don't don't wait till next week. Don't wait till next month. Don't wait till next show. How about in a fucking hour I come on the street and we tell people you can't beat that. You can't beat that. That's the kind of people we want to be working with, man. And that's like the sort of stuff that makes me happy as a guy who does the podcast with you, Len. And I think it makes the people who are listening to the show happy too and know that we're

working with really enthusiastic, high quality, high output people. And the guys at Decentral, no exclusion there. Have you bought one yet? What are you going to buy? I'd like to get a Hex. Yeah. I'd love to get one of those. I know we talked about this offline already.

I wondered if you were changing mine. About three giga hash, four giga. That's ideal, but we'll see. That's something. I'm going to get one. You'll see it plugged in right back here somewhere. But you won't hear it. It'll stick it, not hear it. That's right. You'll see it, but you won't hear more back there you'll see it not hear it

that's right you'll see it but you won't hear it that's what i'm talking about okay so it's not because it isn't on it's because that's right no it'll be running it'll be running so let's do let's do a little housekeeping last week you brought on utxo he's got a new project what is the project what should people be listening for from that from that episode yeah so remember he was doing nodeless and for some time and because you know things went sour with respect to how authorities are. So it was a money transmission business is what they were talking about. So he's now moved on to something called Bitvora,

bitvora.com, you can check it out. And it's a place where if merchants want to take advantage of using Lightning, rather than setting up their own Lightning network node node and it takes time and effort to administer it you guys just simply pay for them to provide the services yeah look there's not many people that are going to be buying with bitcoin and even fewer using lightning at that so why have the vendors dedicate time and effort into monitoring uh ensuring this thing's running just put it off and have somebody else do it. That's before it does.

They're just trying to help bring lightning to the masses, and that's what we're doing. Yeah, that's sick. I haven't listened to that one yet, like I said, but I do need to get on that. Tomorrow, Kevin Muir, the yen whisperer of all people, going to be on the show at 4 p.m. Eastern. Kevin is a very, very busy guy, very, very in demand podcast guest, podcast host,

and still works for an active trading desk. So this guy's hard to get. I'm really glad we got him. The timing couldn't be better. CBP again, the stars really aligning for us. So four o'clock tomorrow, we'll be talking with him for about an hour. There's lots to talk about. I mean, we've seen some data dumps. We've seen some risk and I don't know, what else can we say? Uncertainty manifest over the last week, two weeks. Is that too soft? It might be too soft. A little risk and uncertainty.

The whole thing's a fucking powder keg. Anyway, Kev will be on. And I think I might ask him some hockey questions. Him and Patrick Shrezna do the market huddle, which may not be your cup of tea if you're a Bitcoiner, but I got to be honest, even if I don't care too much about the topic or care too much about the guest or enjoy

necessarily the technical content in a given week, Len, I think that a lot of people go to that show maybe for the same reason they come to this show every week. They like you and me, and they like the way we talk to each other and the sort of rapport that we have. Him and Patrick have a very, very strong rapport,

and I'm really looking forward to talking to him tomorrow. I've been a fan of his for a long time. So 4 o'clock tomorrow, that's when we're doing that. Next week, I am on again with a fella who goes by MoreBirths on Twitter, and we will be talking specifically about Canadian birth rate struggles, the why, the how we got here, and what do we do to get out of it. And I think you're really going to like that show. He doesn't pull a lot of punches. I'll tell you now that that show is going to be very, very data and chart heavy.

So if you're a typical audio user, make time, go to YouTube for that one. To get an idea of what we're going to be talking about, he just did stuff on Lavera's show, I think about a month ago, and I really enjoyed it. And that's why I reached out to him. And he graciously agreed to come on and talk to us. So I'm very excited to talk to him as well. And God, these spotlights are fucking up my camera. I got to turn them off. But anyway, I know. Are they going on and off no it's when i it's when i like turn my head down a little bit the camera focuses on something and then when i turn my head up it has to like reset the light it's the camera lens not the light obviously but uh yeah anyway so

there's there's your housekeeping we got some good stuff coming up over the next week or two get get ready for that yeah well i turn this light off talking i'm gonna go to booze because i also don't want to spend too too long i gotta fly off to paris after this i have a boxing match in the uh women's events yeah i'm gonna see what i could do anyways um we got only two worth worthwhile boosts to read off these last 123 sats and he writes an itm and i have no fucking clue what itm means means. Do you have an idea? In the money? ITM? I don't know. I don't know.

But these laughs. There you go. ITM. Anyways, wartime333 puts a fire emoji. That's it. Nice. Thank you. It's been a light week with respect to that.

Thank you for your fire. Yeah. Yeah, we'll take that and donate it soon enough. Anyways, Joey, any last words before we go into some of the stories for this week i think that's it uh yeah if anything comes up i'll just spit it out during the show i'm sure let's let's rip you know what we'll start off light and it will really ramp up especially during the normal stories right okay yeah anyways we'll talk about where bitcoin news some new advisories that came out from the bitcoin core group about previous versions of bitcoin that are long since been

outdated and people running bitcoin core like if you're running a node a bitcoin core specifically you and it's very old i would recommend considering upgrading to a newer version there's many reasons why you want to do it, including what's in these advisories. Now, what version should people run? You got to do your own research here. There's no right or wrong answer. But what I run, I run version 25.x, one of those versions, because that is one of the oldest that is still Bitcoin core versions that is still being maintained. So because of that, I like to use an older version that still is being maintained.

That's just my opinion. Whatever works for you. Either way, as for the advisory, it's talking about known issues and fixing bugs. These are for versions 22 and older, Bitcoin Core 22 and older. And the bugs and fixes, they're not earth shattering joey it wouldn't cause bitcoin as a whole to break it may be an issue for an individual node runner and it may cause them to have some suspectable sorry suspectable i can't even say the word they could have go knocked and get knocked out online uh their node could be like ddos or whatever yeah that's not fucking like that's not breaking sucks for you as a node runner sucks for me as a node runner but bitcoin still runs

right like the network still functions either way we're getting this news about this information but i'm wondering we're getting this information years after the fact bitcoin core 22 what we're getting right now last updated december 2022 it's been a long fucking time right like makes me wonder if this is the best practice yeah and you know disclosing shit years after the fact i don't think that's right you know look we gotta be more transparent when we're dealing with stuff like this. And we got to hold these people, Bitcoin core folks to task. If there's a problem and it was fixed, release this to the world shortly thereafter. And advise people, here it is.

It may be advisable to upgrade your node. But either way, if there's a problem, it's known. It's also good for the public to get involved the public discussion more people get involved board to create a fix provide opportunity to fix stuff propose solutions shit like that this is a community effort right like by doing this it excludes the community yeah so like we're all big people right like i understand there's gonna be bugs you understand there's gonna be bugs you understand there's gonna be everybody in this like nothing is perfect especially not

bitcoin core right but still like these guys they're acting like they're doing shit for us acting on our best behalf and releasing information when they think it's right no man they should be releasing information right away this is a community driven product project for sure part of community in fact when this came out this advisory for bitcoin core 22 and newer luke even piped in on x and he mentioned with respect to the advisory and i quote neither of which had been responsibility disclosed or recommended for patching at any point to me as bitcoin knots maintainer, despite Bitcoin knots 21.x being officially supported until last month, last month, it's, it is incompetence or malice

from the developers, supposedly, supposedly triaging these things. So even he didn't get this information till just now. So it puts core developers in a situation where they are acting for us us without us interacting with them. I don't like that. Either way, we should put them on notice. And we don't need this nanny state type situation. This is community.

We should be doing this. Fuck them. And let's get involved. Let's do more things. Let's try not to hold them to this high. Let's not put them on a pedestal. They are people after all. After all, they could fuck up and they fucked up here.

We're all Bitcoiners and we should tell them what we want. And I want more transparency. Don't you think this adds fuel to the ossification fire? Stop messing around on layer one. Stop messing around with apps that have been reliable for a long time in the name of appeasing and appealing to, I i think a small local minority most of the time uh and just let this thing ride as is anything else you want to build has to be built on layer two doesn't it add fuel that fire stories like this there's some things

though you have to do um like if i know we're talking about opcat for instance like there's some things and i don't agree with doing that right now if there's really a need for it and if there's probably we could get what there's a need for and it's going to be beneficial to the community and you're going to have to do it so ossification may work for the most part but there still may be some tweaks or even some minor changes i'm thinking that's a minor change in the grand scheme of things but man like i'm just pissed off at this whole thing you know like ossification is fine but fucking transparency more than anything yeah we talk don't we talk a lot about this on axis of easy to like these these sort of vulnerabilities of different sorts and different uh severities they're never disclosed early and

you know there's some i think ethical reason to disclose early but from a technical point of view isn't it in their best interest to wait and wait and wait and wait until they're sure that everything's boarded up and sealed off i don't know like that's the other there is a difference okay there's a huge difference if you are the owner of that software and it's intellectual property you own it and it's closed you can do whatever fuck you want yeah but when this is free and open source when they want interaction with the community the community to review the code submit code suggestions this is not the way to do things is how can you build on something that's been changed and updated but you have no idea it has i'm with you yeah so that's wrong because There's no disclosure. Yeah. So that's wrong.

Because this is open source, they don't have that same right to withhold that information. They got to be more transparent. Isn't the solution, like sort of at the first mover level, isn't the solution, well, Len, you should have done the review. Everybody should be doing the review. Everyone should. Exactly. And so that's probably what they would say,

right? It's, it's convenient to kind of pin it on them. I don't really, I don't have the technical wherewithal to, to really comment and make a, I think, you know,

valuable contribution to this story, but sort of like at 30,000 feet, if we, if we just take some broad strokes here, yeah, I think that they should be engaging the community more. The question is, if you look back on all the sort of boring and mundane code-based changes that have happened in Bitcoin

over the last five years, 10 years, whatever, how much community engagement did they get besides the mailing list, right? Zero, close to zero. Unless it was something major like Taproot or whatever, there's almost never any community feedback. And so there's two things I'd have a problem with. One is, I want to know how you're defining community, number one. And two, is the community, if you do actually define it broadly, what value

does the community, quote unquote, actually add? So far, the community has been wrong more than it's been right, in my opinion. And so wonder what what value you think the community would add on something like this well at the very least it could be actively involved rather than just being uh sitting on a sideline and being a spectator that's a big thing there are people that they're very smart people that understand code that can get involved and provide some insight they're excluding them just because for whatever reason they might have a valid reason but i don't know what it is so i'm that's why i'm pissed off and with respect to taproot that wasn't are you mad i can't tell

are you mad i'm always pissed off always pissed off and not just taproot like did you have a say i didn't have a i have heard a note it was It was no, it was single by the minors. Yeah. Right. Like, come on. So I don't know, man. I'm just, it wasn't a hard work. When you say community feedback, I think more like, like narrative feedback more than I think actual voting rights. And so that's the other thing, right? Like what, what sort of feedback, let's say they get feedback from the sort of small C community and no one wants to make a change or whatever.

I don't know. I'm kind of talking in circles. The point I think is, you know, it's related to or in the same vein as at least a little bit this Isaiah's job theory, right? Like you want to keep your tight knit group of extremists tight knit at all costs to move the ball forward, the more that you quote unquote engage and sacrifice, you know, competency for,

you know, cohesion, you wind up dampening your product, I think, right. You dull the edges of your knife. And, you know,

we've seen that in a lot of cases, Bitcoin, you know, maybe not quite yet, but yeah, I don't know. It's interesting anyway, that the more that you,

the more that you talk about stuff like this with the community and the more the community talks about stuff like this the more i think that there's just a lot of people who like graduated from yappers university out there who have an opinion because it gets a couple likes on twitter but actually don't have any technical competence i would count myself in that group for this topic. I just don't know. I don't know what to add. My opinion is there. I know it carries some value, but there's no way that it carries as much value as the people who decided not to talk about this for two years or whatever it was. Well, if you propose a good idea, I don't care what your technical background or if it's something that is good, or you propose a solution to a problem, I don't care what your credentials are the idea is what i want to fucking bet that is it so

everybody has a different skill set they could bring to the table and that's fine i'm good with that and it seems like there's a lot of people a lot of good people being excluded for a number of different reasons it's too bad yeah for what's at stake here we've been talking about this being decentralized or is this does this whole scenario no no this exactly but the mailing list like i don't actually think bitcoin is as decentralized you know capital d decentralized as everyone says it is it's it's not the stone tablets that everyone claims i don't think the mailing list is really where this thing you know cuts its teeth where this thing's bread is buttered whatever pick your vote your um over you saying there but uh again there are certain like like even the case you're making it sounds like there are good people

who are being excluded like luke dash right luke dasher like is adding looters who who i i don't want to name names specifically. They're not... How much are they... You're chatting with one in the not-too-distant future. Yeah, I know. I know. I guess. Right?

So there are a lot of people. And there's a number of people that are in that same scenario and same boat. Maybe we should all care more then. Is that the answer? We should all care more? Hell yeah. Yeah. Because I really...

I'm guilty big time here. Yeah. We got to demand more from them the reason why look and this will segue to the next thing we do have a lot of power we had bitcoin independence day that we celebrated this past week it was august 1st it was the seventh anniversary of independence day or the user activated software if that alone doesn't describe or outline how much power we have and how decentralized this fucking thing is, because we had at that time these uncooperative miners, very powerful. They had a lot of money backing them.

They weren't able to twist people's arm and shove a narrative down our throats. I wasn't there at the time. When I say our throats, I'm talking about the people that were. But it goes to show you that this is a decentralized movement if things if people don't want to do what they want like what somebody else is telling them they can simply fuck off and still run whatever node they want that in in itself is a vote and they're saying that they're voting for that piece of software and they want to run that they want to support it and they want to verify their transactions based off that so segwit2x didn't come into fruition segway did why because no runners wanted it

yeah well i mean what can i say yeah you're right i know that is no that is what happened like what you know you're right. That's how Segwit went down. So there you go. That's my debate about it is decentralized. Granted, we have this group here of developers that are doing things behind closed doors to a degree. Do you subscribe to the mailing list?

The dev mailing list? I did for a while. I think they've moved on to something else. I was on it as well, but I don't know if i still get those emails or not but you could get that information if you go to the bitcoin subreddit no it's not subreddit it's a discord and on there they have a sub channel i guess you want to call it that has the stuff from the mailing list like uh so you're able to get it without even subscribing to it. So I'm a big fan of that. Check out that Discord. It's the Bitcoin Discord. A lot of good people on there.

Great signal to noise ratio. Like it's unparalleled, I would say. And as Len mentioned, a soon-to-be return guest coming in August as well. That's going to be dynamite. I look forward to chatting with him again. Anyways, let's move on. We'll talk about what's going on with uh the block stream ledger sorry block stream jade ledger ledger smoking and shit jade looks like there was some emails that were floating around for jade users at least looks like it may be fake so i'm not 100 sure about what's going on here but

there was an email that was sent out to do with a blind Oracle. That's the secure element that's the virtual secure element that Blockstream Jade uses rather than, say, an actual chip that Coldcard uses. And this is a way, it's a tamper

resistant hardware component. It's a way to store sensitive information. So the difference is Coldcard has a chip that actually does it. And the Jade has a virtual server that does it. So you have to connect to the mothership in order to make this all work. But so the email said there was some sort of interaction between the blind Oracle that may have been compromised, but it looks like that's not the case.

Blockstream came out on X saying, quote, this is fake. The email address is wrong. Internal processes have shown there's not a leak. Blockstream Jade has not been compromised. But the question remains, though, like, how did people get the emails to contact people? Because people like BTC Sessions and a whole bunch of others got the email and reported it. But I'm wondering if they're just simply sending out emails to prominent Bitcoin folks, or do they actually have email addresses that they have that's correlated with Blockstream Jade users?

I don't know. Either way, I'd recommend, I think the CBP recommends, I don't want to say this, maybe you can see I'm wrong, but at least I recommend using a device that doesn't phone to mothership. Something like Coldcard, for instance. Everything is done. You can do it. I mean, you can plug it into your computer, but I would recommend doing it all offline. AirGap, and it contacts nothing.

Coldcard or CoinKite has no idea you're using it. So something like that is a far better product to use than Jade. So this whole email that went out, it's clearly a fake, but maybe one day it won't be. And what happens if that's the case? You might be kicking yourself if you haven't used a cold card.

Check out how to use a cold card. It's really easy in the grand scheme of things. If you need help, let me know. I'll fucking guide you through the process. But use it. Do it right. You'll sleep better at night help me understand why people are using the hardware devices that still connect up to any other you know server mothership what what is the what is the rationale there at this point how many more times you got to see

like a story about leaked emails, leaked addresses, leaked payment info, leaked wallets, like all this, it's just ridiculous. People are still doing this. And, you know, Blockstream, you know, Ledger, Blockstream is not, you know, Ledger's done a lot of things negatively for their own business. And I think for the people who use their product, basically since the first Nano, everything they've else have done has been like a worse iteration of the same product, same service. Broadly speaking, I think blockchain Jade is a Bitcoin only wallet. I think, right. I have one.

I should, I should know this, but it's like a Bitcoin. It does the Bitcoin named token as well. Does it? Yeah. So it's not just, and I think a few other things but for sure yeah i have a blockchain jade that i bought like a couple hundred bucks at an atm with once i don't even know where that thing is it's probably in this house somewhere but anyway um i should get it out of jade i i we we both bought we bought one with i'm pretty sure cbp treasury money

and i've tried a ledger. Yeah. Jade, cold card. They're okay. Don't get me wrong. The jade is not at the bottom of the totem pole by any stretch. There's a lot worse stuff than that made by a lot less reputable people than the Blockstream team. But this is sort of an unforgivable sin, I think, at this stage.

And not to bring it back to another podcast we do, like we do Access of Easy, which is, as I like to say, the latest and greatest in data breaching and overreaching. But every week there's another database hack, leak, dark web cache of addresses, names, phone numbers, payment info from one of these websites. The last thing you want is Bitcoin to be worth a million dollars and your address to be floating around on the internet. It's the last thing you want. The last thing you want is for someone to see you and know that you own a bunch of Bitcoin and know where you live. Why would you ever want that?

I think a lot of people are not anticipating this. And we say on the show all the time, you have to be prepared because just as fast as it drops from 70 to 49 or whatever it got to this morning, that same move from 70 to 109 can be just as violent or 70 to 209 or 70 to a million nine. It could be just as violent one day. All it takes is the right person saying the right thing and off we go. There's no coming back once you get there. And so like we always say, and like MVK has said many times too, I think he's maybe the one who coined this, certainly wasn't you or I. You have to secure your Bitcoin like it's worth 10 times what it's worth right now. And again, Cold Card doesn't sponsor the show.

Yeah, we're friends with D. I get beers with D once in a while. He's been in my house for dinner, him and his lovely wife. But they don't pay us. I don't have to say nice things about Cold Card. Len doesn't have to say nice things about cold card. Len doesn't have to say nice things about cold card. We say it because we mean it. Everyone uses this product. And for all the shit these guys have had thrown at them over the years, whether it's been from Ledger, whether it's

been from that JT Weatherman guy, that Chewbacca ass guy on Twitter, or other people, the Seed Signer guys are going after CoinKite all the time for their products. And the thing just works. I'm the only guy I know who's lost money on a cold card. And it was because I rolled a bunch of dice way too quickly, not even close to enough times, after having a few beers and heading out to a birthday party where I needed to move some Bitcoin around beforehand. I'm the only guy. No one else had this happen to them.

Nobody's come forward to your credit, Joey. Well, whatever. I came forward because a lot of people got to learn from that, man. You know, that Bitcoin now is probably worth like... Well, don't say it. I don't want to... Enough for me to shed a tear. But anyway, it doesn't matter.

The point here is that you have to be secure. And these guys are one by one, Len. they're getting picked off aren't they all these other hardware providers coin kite hanging in love to see it and i expect to continue what about you i think so there's hardware the device that it's good there's no issues i have with it now it's not to say it's going to be good moving forward everything could you know it could be hacked or attacked but as i see it right now based on information i have it's the best device or one of the best devices out there there may be others that are comparable to it i haven't come across and i haven't tried it so i'm not going to dismiss all the other ones but of the ones that i have used and i've used jade i've used ledger i've used cold card all

of them card is by far the best i've even used other ones that claim their used and I've used Jade, I've used Ledger, I've used Coldcard. Coldcard is by far the best. I've even used other ones that claim their air gap like the God, what do they call it? The... Is it Passport is one of them? Not Passport. This company sends me one of these things all the time. I don't know what I did to deserve this. I'm not that

certainly not a big enough name. Is it Keystone? Keystone, yeah. And those things are pretty good, honestly, Len. Like when I was buying at ATMs, I would use these different wallets like Jade or Keystone and just bring it to the ATM because they had the barcode on board, right? And honestly, it's a pretty good experience

and it's air-gapped, but I just don't know. Like the manufacturer is a little shoddy, right? Who is Keystone Hardware? They might be good, might be bad. The stuff ships from some unknown warehouse in the Orient. And I see the... God bless the people who work there.

I don't want to take broad swipes at our Chinese friends because there's a lot of good people in Bitcoin regardless of where they come from. But when I see broken English in DMs, the first thing I think is that's a part of the world where we've seen these problems in the past. And it's a part of the world that's objectively adversarial with the West at the moment as well. And so do you want to put your Bitcoin on that? I don't know. Maybe not. Meanwhile, NVK is grilling steaks coming on cbp when we ask him uh running a podcast where he literally talks about how every single person is trying to bust his hardware door

down and they can't do it he gets experts on there he's been on panels and spoken with at length uh both with both without and with a moderator the guy who who leads up Ledger. I can't remember his name. Pascal, I think. Yeah. Yeah. These guys are very open about their business and their product. And there's other stuff I could say that I'm not going to because it's not fair to share it.

But I'll tell you that CoinKite understands that if you buy a cold card, the likelihood that you need to buy another one is basically zero. They understand that. And they're still making that product as secure and as sort of future-proof as possible, even though probably it's going to affect their bottom line at some point. And they don't care.

That's a pro-Bitcoin company. I don't know how else to put it. Well, I'll say they have the Q that's been released. Yeah. I am not getting one because i still have to order one we have one in the car i know fuck i gotta do whatever you want right now i'm gonna do right now you take the next story take the next story okay i'm not upgrading my cold card uh mark four because i like it yeah and the queue is superior to in many respects but i like my cold card enough i don't want to mothball to let it collect dust that i feel in that regards that's

why i'm keeping it it's it's a great product the cold card mark for the q is slightly better so buy either one in my opinion learn how to use it air gap that sucker don't expose your keys online away you go yeah and yeah big cloud joey remember big cloud oh i love this story this is great so yeah before breed love was running alpha male seminars he was pimping himself out on big cloud this guy's taking l after l anyway go ahead this is great he was also doing uh god he's really fallen from great i say well the one in particular pissed me off he was your favorite guy when i ever as long as i've known you and we've spoken about what podcast you listen to you have always been a pbd disciple and last like three months you've

completely changed your opinion on the guy come on you you can't say one thing over and over again and then immediately do something else that yeah you're trying to do something like against or supporting something you talked negatively against for such a long time. That's hypocritical. And that's piss me off. Forget it. You know, if you're going to do that, it's all about money. And if it's all about money, forget about it. I'll go to the next one.

Anyway, big clout. You talked about Mr. Breedlove that was once associated with BitClout. Either way, the SEC, they're going through all the files on their desk and they came across another one because they've decided to file charges against BitClout's founder, Nader Al-Najji. And they charged him with fraud and unregistered security offerings. And I've never heard of his name before.

I read this article, so it's the first time I've heard of BitClout. But for people who are unaware what is BitClout, it was a blockchain-based social media platform that aimed to monetize social influence. So users on that platform could post content. They could tip creators and trade creator coins so it just you could just understand why the sec is pissed off and these tokens represented a user's reputation and could be bought and sold so they called it an experiment

in merging social media and cryptocurrency what a scam what a scam man the language oh my god yeah so they closed it down following significant criticism and legal issues and that was leading to its decline and it shut down and here the sec is now filing this complaint started this all started back in november 2020 where they said the founder, he raised some $257 million from unregistered offering like rental payments for a Beverly Hills mansion and extravagant gift cards to family members. He was paying for a lifestyle for him, friends, and family. I love it. You can't beat this. You just can't beat this can you this

is just like as good as it gets i think i think so but man years late right like i guess they had to gather all the evidence but come on man what do we always say we always say that the gears of justice grind slowly but very finely as well right and this guy is about to become a fine paste in the gears of the law who else really sold out and like just shattered their reputation with bitclout who are the other bangers on the cloud let's see no the only one that just comes over and over again is breed love for whatever reason he seems to be the poster child that guy has been fucking doing the dumbest shit with his name and likeness remember when he was like reading for that bitcoin wallet and he was like sitting next to a pool it looked like something you'd throw pennies into and he's like sitting there pretending

he's big on this bitcoin wallet this hardware wallet and he's clearly reading a script that's like one of the worst fucking things we've ever seen bitcloud has a wikipedia page let's visit it very quickly here let's just have let's just have a quick visit okay over to the bitcloud reputable source page yeah very very reputable that's right according to newsguard look into that if you haven't already listener viewer uh let's see oh it's really only about the uh lawsuit which is too bad so somebody yeah i would i would love to see who was on the club but um that's okay i'm pretty sure it was like i'm pretty sure like natalie brunel was on it too breed love uh a few other people trying to turn a quick buck on their fame and fortune and i don't know is it is it too much

to say that you know these people really should have suffered a more significant loss of um legitimacy and trust than they did. Probably. I mean, Breedlove has really done a number on himself, dating the porn star and like messy, very messy. The alpha male seminar, if you guys haven't seen that, is one of the funniest fucking things I've ever seen in my life. Would you ever go to an alpha male seminar? And it's so funny talking about like health and fitness and stuff like just get on trt if you want to get bigger i've been asked to go on like trips for like golfing trips and i've i've said no i've been asked to go on trt no no no these go and i said no so like that would be like way better and i get way more out of that and i

said no to it. Why the fuck would anybody go to this? The price too, Joey. The price is around starting 5G or so. For the seminar? For the alpha weekend or whatever?

Yeah. It's the starting price for the shittiest accommodation was 5G. That's US. You're spending about a tenth of a Bitcoin to go to this. I guess it's going to be expense for business related, like somebody is going to be using businesses and expensing it that way. But can't money be spent wisely? You know, whatever.

Do what you want with your money. A fool and their wealth will soon be parted. And the people that attend this are going to be an example of that showy but i just wanted to talk about i don't want to say the name of the person in the chat just in case he gets in trouble but apparently something we talked about in the past celsius is going after people now this guy in the chat um friend of the show again i don't want to say your name just in case I get you in trouble. He had some BTC in Celsius and now he's being summoned to give

his Bitcoin back. He's in the chat? He's in the chat right now. I don't want to say who... Oh yeah, I see it. So this is a story we talked about in the past. I gotta know what's going on i

gotta know what's going on with this i this is to me a completely insane story i can't believe this is going on okay to this person we need an update on this like with all the information that you have and we will not talk about it but i need to know like this is just a personal interest story for me at this point imagine you pull out like let's say you had an expense or something you know a week before celsius went under you you pull a like let's say you had an expense or something you know a week before celsius went under you you pull a bitcoin or two bitcoin off to pay for i don't know an addition on your house or something you know what was bitcoin at that time thirty thousand forty thousand i forget so you pull it off to buy it to buy an addition on your house

then you get an email three years later saying hey you have to give that back that's we gotta we gotta give it to the people who were rugged. Like, oh my god. This is insane. And I was going to talk about this either last week or two weeks ago, and I talked about it the week prior to that. So this is something that's coming up a lot. They're going through all

these people that had pulled money, and I think it's with a period of time, like three months or something before Celsius went tits up. Why? Why are you going after these people they didn't have inside no i i don't know why i honestly don't because they don't have any inside information they had nothing just simply their intuition i had to pull it out for whatever reason great and you know what that's what you should be doing in exchange is not there you hold it until the end of time until either you die or the exchange dies that's what these guys are trying to say that is not one and it's not the only scenario here that's

not the only timeline there's a number of different ways you could come out of this and one being you pull it off the exchange and you do whatever the fuck you want with the bitcoin that's what this guy should is doing and it's too bad he's gonna have to be through the ringer and they're asking for today's price of bitcoin not the price of bitcoin at which it was he pulled it out today's price and if today's price like doubles in the next you know couple of months because we have a president that potentially will get elected as talk about Bitcoin. This guy's fucking screwed. Fuck you, Celsius. Fuck you, Celsius lawyers.

You guys are doing these people wrong. Let them fucking walk. Not that they did anything wrong. They just simply pulled money off an exchange. Nothing more, nothing less. Doing what's doing, by the way, is one of the standard sort of recurring themes in Bitcoin, right? Now you're keys, now you're coin, pull off exchanges, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, now you're getting sued.

Is that nuts or what? That is nuts. Yeah, if he needs non-legal representation, because that's what I am, I'll be happy to show up and talk to him. Let me know what you need, and we'll be there. I'll be fucking yelling at them. I can tell you I'll feel better. I don't know if you feel in your case.

I'll be right there. I'm not even going you feel in your case. I'll be right there. I'm not even going to wear a suit, but I will be there for sure. I'll wear my shorts. Let me know. We'll be there. We'll be streaming. We'll be going live from the back of the courtroom. Welcome back, everybody.

It's a CBP coming to you live from the fake Celsius travel. Are you recording in court? It's a CBP coming to you live from the fake Celsius trial. Are you recording in court? It's absolutely insane. Absolutely insane that this is going on. Did that guy ever go to jail, Mashinsky? I don't know. If he's not in jail and he's sending out these letters, I mean, what are we talking about?

Where's the legal system here? What happened? I thought we were ruled by a nation of laws. Are nation of laws are we not are we not apparently we're not he may like if he hasn't yet gone to jail maybe the process is underway but i don't recall him being charged with anything but you know i don't know maybe i'm wrong maybe i don't know so there's a lot of a lot of questions we don't have answers to whatever it is i hope that the law ends up prevailing and uh whoever does done something wrong ends up doing the time that they deserve so anyways leaden let's talk about leaden the former sponsors of the cbp great people love marie to you on the team they've been really busy lately right because this is from a coindesk

article and according to this more people are using their service as retail lending has increased almost 30% from between quarter one and quarter two of 2024. So in terms of dollar value, and it's not just strictly retail, it's overall, over $1.1 billion of loans were issued in the first half of 2024. And that number is quite large, 1.1 billion. And if in terms of regional breakdown, North American customers are leading the charge. But since it's not available in Canada, we could just assume that it's all United States.

Yeah. Latin America is number two in terms of regions that are using their service. And they say there's a lot of interest because of economic pressures and political volatility. So with these numbers, I'm betting that they're probably going to go public. They've gone through some rounds in the past of past angel investors, I'm guessing. But they did some seeds uh funding in the past and i think just looking at this

there's more interest and it's gaining it's gaining some steam here yeah i can see them going public one way or another either i think they will too back well we talked about last week or the week before i think it was last week i can't remember which episode i was cutting shorts up for but there's going to be an increasing demand for loan products against Bitcoin and loan products against Ethereum, which I think they also offer, right? Like everyone is going to want to use the stuff

that is fixed supply to get the stuff that is not. This is the ABCs of economics and borrowing and asset grading. And you're going to see this more and more. The other thing too, and actually it's funny, Mark and I were talking about this yesterday, that I think I share this sentiment. There's a, I think in Bitcoin, a broad feeling that people who own a lot of Bitcoin aren't that liquid because I just don't want to sell.

I'm not going to sell Bitcoin for almost any reason at this point. This is the time to be buying zealously, almost irrationally often with the understanding that everything else is going to go sideways pretty soon. Not in the technical chart term, but rather in the philosophical way things are going term. There's got to be a better way to say that, but I don't have the words today. And so I think a lot of people are going to be demanding this. Now the question still stands. And we asked Mario, give me this back in the day when he was working for lead in, he was, uh, uh, you know, actually I want to get it back on the show. That reminds me, cause he's a big AI guy now. And obviously he was ahead of the curve on

that. Uh, I am curious about why they'd be going public if demand for the product is really increasing at this, at this rate, because you really only go public if you want money that you can't otherwise get through a raise. And if the product is, if the, if the service offering is becoming more broad, let's say, or the demand is becoming more broad and more sustained, then you don't, you shouldn't need to go public. And also like what, as an investor, why would you invest in lead in as a public company? That's one thing I can't figure out. If you were going to be in a business like that,

I don't know, is Visa a comparable as far as retail investing? I know the service is not quite the same, but you're basically in the loan business at that point you know so i don't know it's to me it's hard to understand i don't have all the details obviously but i'd be curious to hear what marizio or other sort of lead-in um loyalists would say about i understand you're correct you're not you're not sure why they would go public yeah well yeah why it doesn't it only if they need money? Well, I think it's more so if you are – think about it. You established a business. You put your heart and soul into it, all this time, effort, energy. Yes.

And now if you go public, you can – if all goes well, you can become fairly wealthy through the process. And it could be done almost overnight. And I'm simplifying it, this whole thing. I don't think Maurizio is the I want to get wealthy overnight type. I'm just saying that's what typically it is. Maurizio, that was Len that said that, Maurizio. I would never say that, Maurizio. Thank you again for the sweatshirt and t-shirt, Maurizio.

I would never say that. CBP, we're going to be going public one day. I'm starting a Patreon, okay? I want everyone who listens to this show to give me $5 a month so i can at least pay my electrical bills or something with cbp money i gotta figure that out anyway i'm just waiting to dilute dilute dilute and use that to buy bitcoin we only have two shares i'm pretty sure do we not it's only we can create a trillion at the money offering we should do not the money offering is what we should do joy we could do a trillion right off the bat and just start you know it's like a

what's a shit coin sheeb there's a i don't know what's the right there's an incredibly large amount that's in circulation we'll be like i know right get some sheeb we need a little sheeb on this show oh my god what's the next story i wish leaden the best i like that yeah yeah i enjoyed i enjoyed them as a partner i think they're a good company and i like maritza too i think he's a great guy mutiny they're closing up shop terrible yeah very very it's a terrible it's pretty it's pretty sudden though right like there's no i mean i shouldn't say there's no inkling but there's no inkling from them until this morning.

And they just said, we're closing it up. That's it. Well, yeah, the CEO is burnt out. Apparently he's had enough. He's fallen out of love with Bitcoin. This is an example of somebody that's put in a lot of time and effort into this project. And still, you know, everybody has a point in time where they just burnt out. And this guy was probably burning the candle at both

ends and here he is so and so fortunate for him i you know just reading between the lines i hope that he's well mentally because doing this walking away from a project i'm not really walking away but at least stepping down and eventually shutting down this project at the end of this year which what they plan to do leads me to believe there may be more to it that meets the eye with this guy and i hope i'm wrong and apologies if I am, but man, you know, like mutiny closing, it was, you know, very much tied to lightning. It's going to be removed from the app store, the play store, and also the web-based client is going to be done later this year, but you can still do self-hosted solutions, but I don't think it's going to be terribly popular as at least not as popular as once

Mutiny was. But if you are using Mutiny, be aware. Yeah, I would suggest start moving your funds to something else. Use a different product and close up Mutiny as soon as you can, at least by the end of the year. Yeah, nothing to add to this from a commentary point of view. I wish the guy the best as well. Being burnt out is not fun. I think I said this on a show, maybe with you, maybe with somebody else, maybe on a guest appearance that, you know, five, six years ago, if you had told me that burnout was a real, like, you know, when people talk about being burnt out, I would have said like, no, you're just a, you're a pussy. You know, like you don't understand what it's like to work and you don't want to work and you, you know, you're, uh, averse to doing difficult

things for extended periods of time. But I've since experienced burnout, I think, you know, not necessarily doing this show, but just, you know, broadly in life, you're, you're really, you're really running uphill a lot more than you realize. And, uh, you know, professionally and personally, and then the podcast and all this stuff, you do feel like sometimes there's just, there's never a time where you're finished. And I think with a company like Mutiny, it's running a wallet. If you go through all that work to build something, Len, and you're always iterating, always trying to get better, that's one thing. But then when everyone around you is getting targeted by law enforcement and governments, that'll do it. Life is more important than a a bitcoin wallet as much as i hate to say it and i wish the guy the best i think it's

important to look after yourself mentally physically all those things it's important pacific bitcoin oh who could have seen this coming who could have seen this coming let's pull up pacific bitcoin hype hype tape from last year and you can so sorry yeah i mean i'll be very brief that pacific bitcoin that is the you know it's tied very strongly to swan they're the people that run this event and apparently it's going to be no more so swan they're going through the process of tightening their belts we talked about in the past and we talked about it offline you and i and a few others if this is still going to go on moving forward and well we got news today the

answer is no it's going to be shelved at least temporarily i don't think they they said it's going to be done permanently but what the fuck do i know joey i'm not sure if you want to add any more flavor to this yeah i'm going to bring the website up here because I don't think people realize. And I know Mark, Mark in the chat was, I think, tweeting last week that Corey, you know, it's hard to run a company, all this stuff. It's not that I don't appreciate that. I do. Running a company is one thing, but what you actually see at the Swan Pacific Bitcoin is indicative of something else.

I've seen the clip. Of else. I've seen the clip. Of course. Everyone's seen the clip. And the clip is Corey running around in what I think is a basketball court they brought into the Pacific Bitcoin Festival so they could have a three-point contest in the video game. I get it. You want to have some fun at the festival.

I do. Yeah. But to me, it's pretty simple. I mean, I don't want to say it's simple because Mark is right about one thing. I've never run a company. He has, I haven't. And I think a lot of people out there are correct in saying that it's easy to take shots at Corey.

That's true. Uh, but, but my stance is, was, and will continue to be, that this picture was taken only six months ago or 10 months ago, whatever. The festival's in November, I'm pretty sure. So 10 months ago. One of two things has to happen. Mark giving me shit in the private chat now. One of two things has to happen, okay?

Either he knew about the problems Swan was having and did this anyway to keep appearances up, or he didn't know about the problems Swan was having. And to me, that makes him an operator that leaves the company wanting in terms of competency. I hope Swan makes it. I think Swan, like I said last week, good Bitcoin company. They've done a lot of good work. They hired a lot of good people and they've made a lot of good content and helped a lot of Bitcoiners. No doubt. No doubt. My question is only, did they lose focus for just long enough that it cost them half their staff and maybe the second or third biggest American Bitcoin conference? I think it's hard to say no. I think it's hard to say no. They did lose focus for a little bit. uh this is why they had to you

know somewhat abruptly even by their own staff standards the one fella there the black guy i can't remember his name who made a video last week or two weeks ago a long video and he was doing stuff for swan all the time in the same studio that i guess is at his house he made a video about the layoffs and basically said they had less than a week's warning that this was coming. And only a few people were putting it together in the week leading up to what was going on, that they were all going to get laid off. Make of that what you will. You will only ever see me with my shirt off lifting weights in my basement one room gym. That's the most focus I will ever lose from CBP. You're never gonna see me bringing

in a basketball course shooting three pointers uh all this other stuff and talking about how i got 30 million dollars for a media company and then you know in 10 months basically closing up shop uh on most of those media fronts among others we talked last week about this they they fired uh engineers they fired media people they fired back end front like you know sort of customer service people education people like livera um i don't know say what you want about coinbase but you know at what point are people going to admit that Coinbase is the best-run company, not named Bull, obviously. I think Bull does a way better job than Coinbase, especially given their smaller team. But at what point are we going to admit that Coinbase is the

company that really got a lot of this stuff right? Do they trade shit? Yeah. Their bottom line, but their bottom line is fucking untouchable. And all these other companies, I think, tried to do things that Coinbase wasn't doing well better than them and and tried to usurp them in different ways and tried to build sort of you know at the foot of their castle and and but they couldn't do it they they straight up couldn't do it here we go lens about to fucking go nuts coinbase man i'm buying a football from team issues let me just pull up the website and i'll start designing it and you can go for it coinbase like they've done a number of things wrong remember the nft market they've set

up and there's like a whole bunch of things that they've put money they bet on the wrong horse and that's essentially it and i i don't know any club out there talking about yeah i use coinbase i like coinbase it's always something else. They cornered a market on the institutional stuff. Yeah. Like if you are a business and you want to use some sort of custody method, the ETFs are, when it comes to mine,

for instance, Coinbase is going to be one of the companies that come to mind or top of the list. And that's where they're going to have their bread butter moving forward and good for them they corner that market and they do that i guess well enough but man like who the heck uses coinbase is like a regular joe blow or jane doe i don't know anybody me neither but we talked about it no i know i think canadians are ahead of the curve on that whole thing. But I hear so. For people in the States, I hear about Swan. I hear about like fucking Strike.

River, Strike. Like I hear about, never does Coinbase come into the equation. I don't even hear that much. Like up here, I know we're sort of in a bubble because I think, I mean, I know that almost all of our viewers and listeners use Bull. But I don't even hear that much about shake pay anymore up here honestly uh maybe it's because people are just not buying but i think that broadly you know some of these big corporate ones up here are not doing as well as they wanted to be sorry shake sorry carlo that's that's the i know anecdotally that's what i see yeah i have no idea but i know like they're you know aside from that hack they had not too long ago you

remember that there was a some sort of hack that yeah it was a um was it a hack or did they lock a bunch of accounts or something right something like that something like that because of a mailing list uh yeah something like that where information was like that that was the blemish they had after like before that i would say like for a normie exchange like just simply buying if somebody came to me and said look i have to buy and coinbase what do you think about it it sucks that you know they have to just custodian and all that but it's a normie exchange i i couldn't really shit in it that much so in whatever i i wish coinbase the best i wish wish everybody the best. And I hope people... There's a comment in the chat I want to talk about from

Dave Bradley. My guess is that they failed to raise money they thought they could. I would be sympathetic to that point if Corey wasn't talking so much shit about how much money they had and how much money they gave out. And we played that clip from Matt Odell last week or the week before about how Corey was talking about how they gave like $200 million

to all these different companies and Odell couldn't find a single penny of it in any of the places that he was invested in any of the contacts he had or any of the circles he ran in that there is something fishy about all that stuff that still hasn't really come to the top of the coffee here. But at some point, you know, it know it's it's gonna it's gonna be too frothy to ignore and we'll see you know is uh cory cory then tweeted out last week right what did he say oh the uh the fucking mining thing is gangbusters blah blah blah like what is that why would you even fucking say that i know and i talked about this at length we talked about it at length i don't understand why they got into the mining business they have right now i think the number he said it's going

so well it may be going so well but think about five x a hash per second is what they have the last number i know it's not enough that's no it's not not not enough how much capital you have to put in yeah yeah to set that up yeah that's an enormous amount of money that could have been spent and We talked about this. What do you get out of mining? You're selling Bitcoin. You could easily just get it from anywhere and sell it to a customer.

You're just playing the middle guy. Not mine it and then sell it to people. That doesn't work in 2024 or even 2023 when they announced it. That ship is long sailed man these businesses they don't mesh being an exchange of being a bitcoin miner i don't see what the overlap is there are two different businesses and even fucking bitcoin mining i've talked about it

i don't know how the fuck that's even going to survive unless there's a business that does other things that you can kind of hide it when things are going poorly, but when things like selling Bitcoin, no, I would think it's like oil and natural gas and shit like that. It is, it is weird though. Like there's clearly, I think a disconnect there between what the company should be doing,

what they are doing and what they say they've been doing. And I think that's, that was a startling thing, right? Anyway, I don't want to dwell too much on this. I still got to do this boxing match still. gotta fuck we're so late here what time is it hour five minutes having me keeping track of time god bless you if you're on audio we'll see you

tomorrow if you're on video stick around len and i are gonna be uh getting ballsy in the ring talking about the olympics so we'll see in a few minutes don't be a cuck