The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #182 (Bitcoin News Stories) - You Are the Yield, Riot and Bitfarms Settle, Blackrock and Coinbase (Bitcoin Podcast)

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. D-Central Technologies - https://d-central.tech/Your home for all things mining! Whether you need a new unit, a unit repaired, some support with software, or you want to start your own wife-friendly home mining operation, the guys at D-Central Tech are ready to help. With industry leading knowledge and expertise, let the D-Central team help you get started mining the hardest money on Earth.

Friends and enemies, welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Len, this is the last show. Oh, no, it's not. It's the second last show, the penultimate show that we will do in September 2024. This is number 182. My name is Joey, as I mentioned here, as well as my friend, colleague, co-host, and fellow CBP Inc. C-suite member, Len. What's going on, buddy? How are you?

I'm good, Joey. I'm just enjoying what's going on out there. See some good stories we'll be talking about today. We're gonna laugh, cry, get angry, get happy. A little bit of everything. We covered a whole spectrum of all the emotions. I hope that everybody joins us as well. So thank you for joining in. How are you Joey? I'm great. No complaints. Wasn't feeling that great today. I actually went to a barbecue last night. So I'm on this journey to figure out why I'm always bloated and farting, to be honest with you. Is it a lot of calcium or yogurt and dairy products? I think it is lactose.

So I started drinking lactose-free milk maybe the middle of last week for like three days almost an instant change in the way i felt um and then yesterday went to a barbecue and had all the usual you know dips and jalapeno poppers and just nothing but cheese and seed oils everywhere you look uh not to mention you know four or five beers. And so this morning, man, oh my God, I felt absolutely terrible. I still don't feel that great though. I did get a workout in today, which I'm happy about going back to the novice linear progression, some three by fives for the next few months, try and build some strength before the

baby comes. But yeah, I think I am lactose intolerant. My friends have been telling me this for a long time because when you have friends for as long as I've had these friends, they know all about you and they think that I'm lactose intolerant. I have been sort of in denial, but now I'm fairly sure that I have to get off that stuff. Do you have any dietary restrictions? I don't know that you do. I don't think you and I have ever-

It's self-imposed. I don't drink coffee. I hate coffee. I like coffee, the smell. I hate the taste of it. like that right yeah so i'm gonna i'm gonna try this seasonal that's it yeah yeah yeah actually my nose is a little plugged up today which is weird because it was raining all day here raining where you are or no yeah a little bit but that actually helped my allergies were usually it does yeah usually it does yeah whatever i'll still go out

there and i don't take claritin screw that stuff no all that stuff is bad for you anything that nerves your allergic response is not something you want to be taking because uh that allergic response is important for other systems in your body anyway big show tonight as always let's talk about the sponsors first easy dns mark took time with me and Len. Was it last week? Pretty sure it was last week. It was Wednesday last. Taught us all about the product suite that EasyDNS has in terms of their sort of guarding your security and guarding your domain. This thing called DomainSure. Yeah. And so it's an excellent, excellent suite of products that covers everything from people trying to squat on similarly spelled domains, people spoofing your domain in emails, a million things.

I won't get into all the details here. But you can be assured that if you use EasyDNS, DomainShare will protect you from all the nefarious actors out there, which you'd love to see. That is really what a registrar should be doing. And Mark is the friendly neighborhood registrar that you should be working with. In addition, you can have an email with your domain attached to the back. You got to love that. We have the iCanadianBitcoiners.com emails, though we don't use them that often. And of course, as well, Mark, infamous for making sure that no matter what you post, you will not be taken down. Even as Australia launches a proposed law that tweeting or posting things

that are going to call into question the legitimacy of the banking system going to be illegal over there. Mark won't take you down though. So go over. You can get virtual private server stuff there as well. Of course, BTC Pay servers, Nostra Relays, all the Bitcoin bitcoin stuff mark's a bitcoiner um easy dns.com cbp media is the code 50 off your first round of uh buys with easy dns can't can't uh can't do better than 50 can you

lend pretty rare free but we're not gonna twist mark's arm to give people something for free that's the way things are going to happen over here. 50% is good enough. Another good thing you get is sign up with Bull Bitcoin. Use their service because you're not going to get a better place to buy Bitcoin. It's world-renowned. Other people that are

Bitcoiners, they wish they have the ability to use Bull Bitcoin here in Canada and in France. Those are the only places that you do have the ability to take advantage Bitcoin here in Canada and in France. Those are many places that you do have the ability to take a little Bitcoin. So yeah, check it out. You could do on chain buys. You could do lightning buys when fees are higher.

Fees are not higher though. If we, for whatever reason, guessing it's DTF, but I'm not a hundred percent sure it's they're staying low. So take advantage by and sell the on chain. That's the best way to do it. And in my opinion,

and bull Bitcoin has you covered. It'll be able to facilitate those buys and sells's the best way to do it in my opinion and bull bitcoin has you covered it'll be able to facilitate those buys and sells in case you want to do it not just that you could also then pay some bills you know everybody's been stacking right everybody's listening to shows been stacking for a long time i hope right so you know if that's the case you probably have a large stack of bitcoin that you've made tremendous gains on what way one way you could spend it is you could pay your bills those ever-mounting bills that you've made tremendous gains on what way one way you could spend it is you could pay your bills those ever mounting bills that you've been neglecting to buy more bitcoin and so you can spend the bitcoin and pay off those bills and so you'll be back to square one and you could you know fend off those collection agencies and until for at least

another month also when bull bitcoin wait a minute wait a minute are you neglecting bills absolutely i'm buying more Bitcoin as a result. Those collection agencies. Just change your number. Change your number. There's other things you could do with bull Bitcoin. You could buy gift cards. And so, you know, you got to go out, you know, spend some money.

Don't spend your Canadian dollars. Spend using Bitcoin. Buy these gift cards with your Bitcoin. And then indirectly, you're living on the bitcoin standard not getting any yield unfortunately no depending if you talk to michael saylor either way check them out if you have not yet opened an account certainly do so use our promo code below if not you're going to be a no-coiner and once you do sign up you'll get 21 bucks added to your account once you provide the necessary information. Joey, you got to love that.

Yeah. Decentral technologies. Len, how many messages have you gotten from people who have picked up the CBP branded BidX so far? A few. There's a chat that's going on in our Discord with respect to that because people were asking about cooling options and stuff like that. And Jonathan, thankfully, jumped in and talked a little bit about it.

He's been active on there. So thank you, Jonathan. I love it. I love it. I've had a few messages myself. Len and I both bought Canadian Bitcoiners bid axes because, like I said to somebody, I won't say who in my DMs, we don't take handouts on this show unless it's a T-shirt or a hat, basically.

We don't do any handouts because i i don't know len what do it's there's no integrity in taking handouts so we're we're along for the ride with the cbp bid axis just like you guys are and i hope that you order one what else can you do at decentral tech well let me start with repairs you got an s21 s19 s whatever they'll fix your board you want to buy a new board you want to buy a new miner you want to do a little cooling they can help you with that uh if you want to put something in your house that'll help you heat it help your miner look nice and of course as i always say the solo mining uh nirvana i guess you would say uh over at decentral tech grab a bin axe your wife won't mind it'll look cool i can't wait to put mine up it'll be whizzing away very very quietly if not silently

once uh it arrives here in the middle of i think probably the end of october they'll come right they ship the middle of october so very much looking forward to that um whatever you need when it comes to mining especially home mining these guys got your back uh we couldn't be happier to have them as a sponsor and we are very, very excited to see all you guys buying miners. I know Mark told me during the episode we recorded recently, that he just bought a couple of BidAxes even before the CBP ones came out. So we are introducing people. And like Narwhal saying in the chat here,

if you wanted a BidAxe and we can help you get over the edge and buy one, that's great for us and great for them. We want to support that company and we hope that you guys support them too. CPP mining pool. Yeah, I see that. Is that even possible? Yeah,

certainly it's possible. Um, I mean, is it, is it pragmatic? Is it pragmatic? I don't know. I,

to be perfect. I don't, I'm not sure exactly how that's going to deal with CRA and stuff like that. Because a pool would be taking a slice of every block that's built on the pool. And that is revenue earned. Yeah. I'm thinking so. Man, oh, man, I don't want to touch that with a 10-foot pool.

Anyways, that's good. If you haven't ordered it, do it. I'm not sure how many are left. 75 are going to be in existence i ordered 73 myself joey ordered one so one left for anybody there's a comment there's a comment in the chat from aiden carrazza the zero maintenance cut i did get a haircut i cut all my hair off basically uh which yeah i have my wife hates it but it doesn't matter because i'm married back yeah i'm married with a kid on the way. There's not really many options she has in terms of

recourse at this point. So that's the beauty of it. Listen, I know I'm with you. I've had long hair for a long time and, uh, there's good things about long hair, of course, but I find Len that sort of older I get get the more i don't want to waste time with like blow drying my hair styling my hair stuff like that especially in the morning when i'm going to the gym and so all these things are like kind of you know in the back of my head all the time so i went to the barber last week and uh he pulled out the scissors to cut the top of my head after he did the fade at the side i said put him away we're going uh we're going all clippers this time so yeah happy to uh have done that la clippers yeah not la clippers yeah not

kawaii leonard there's no load management on this haircut anyway so let's do a little housekeeping here before we get into the boost management like back in the day oh my god yeah they oh yeah but you know the world's got soft man like what the the fuck? Here's ball. Go play ball. 40 minutes. And then if they go OT, keep going until you're done. I don't blame you for that point. So listen, last week, Daniela Villalba came on. She is a recent grad of the University of Victoria.

We had a great conversation on her thoughts on some Bitcoin stuff. There was even a little dating talk on that podcast. We don't often get to pick a woman's brain on the show. So we had a little fun with that. And then of course, then the reason we were introduced to her, the learning Bitcoin conference coming up in five days. Now it's this weekend in Victoria,

British Columbia. If you don't have a ticket yet, use the code CBP, get, I think like 50% off, which is a pretty good deal tomorrow. I'm going to be talking to Carrie Lutz, who is the man behind the Financial Survival Network on YouTube.

Cary is more of a precious metals guy than he is a Bitcoin guy, but we'll talk about Bitcoin. We'll talk about metals. And I think most of all, we'll get his perspective on some of the things that are happening. He's had some great guests over the years on his show. It's a program that I watch fairly frequently. I would say once a week, I got something from him on while I'm working or while I'm brushing a football or while I'm lifting weights. And he's a guy who, like I said, may not see Bitcoin the same way we see it, but sees the

peripheral problems much the same way. And so I'll have a good time talking with him. October 1st, I'm going to be talking to David St. Ange, everyone's favorite currency distributor at conferences about all sorts of things. The basement inflation, mining, all manner of things. Dave actually messaged me and said that he bought a CBP BEDAX. So I'm excited to talk to him. I've been meaning to get him on the show for some time.

I actually had a plan to interview him when I was in Montreal, but we couldn't hook up because the hotel was way further away from the conference than I thought. But anyway, so that's what's coming up in CBP land. How many boosts we got? We got a bunch of boosts? Yeah, we got a fair number, but the top five, we'll start with MoeBTCDick, 500 stats. And he writes in, nice to see some younger British Columbians out here

doing so much for the community. Thanks, Daniela.iella yeah yeah great great stuff she's doing a lot of good work if you're a university student or know someone in university or are trying to start a bitcoin club uh reach out to daniella daniella's got some tentacles out in other places around the country now in terms of bitcoin clubs thanks to what's going on at uvic and thanks to the conference. So looking forward to, I'm looking forward to seeing what, what they got going on this weekend.

That that's going to be a real banger. And I, I did get some news about next year's conference from her too, off the air. And I would just tell you that you should be on the lookout for that because I think you may be interested friends and enemies. Doug and Rup 525 sats. He writes in great to hear from a member of the quote unquote Bitcoin youth. Interesting that her peers are just as uninterested as mine. So does this mean we're still early? I think we're extremely early given the fact that how few people out there understand what Bitcoin is, even people that think they're into Bitcoin. And just look at the

amount of money, the amount of wealth capital that's going to be flowing into it. We're still so very early. So yeah, I would suggest keep stacking that financial advice. For sure. We definitely are early. Although Len, if you look at some of the on-chain data from past bull runs, I mean, I hesitate to call what we're in now bull run but past um let's say post-having periods september october november you know historically very interesting and made even more so by a rate environment that's going to become favorable an election all sorts of things i would say that uh early may not be the word we use for much longer a lot of variables and also we have an etf or several

etfs that are yeah live in the united states and if you noticed uh in terms of uh bullish news i just want to point out to you that uh your favorite podcast bankless the recent a list of recent episode titles okay in defense of the ethereum roadmap uh refuting L2 FUD and the state of Arbitrum, where's the ETH bottom? Is the Ethereum roadmap off track? Why is ETH down so bad this cycle? Those are titles for a shitty list of episode titles. And that goes to show you exactly what's going on in the community if those two guys that are making quite a bit on sponsorship money and whatnot and they're down on

the product feel bad for everyone out there that are yeah you fuck them eventually they'll come to bitcoin rander 555 stats guys i hope you cover the abc whistleblower that came out we briefly touched upon it last week yeah the interview or the debate yeah look i mean kamala talking about she wants to have a third debate and you know that trump is that trump is no longer willing to debate and i i think like he's not dodging the debate but if you want to do the debate do it on all in or do it on this show or do it on rogan or do it on literally any podcast would be better than mainstream media um that whistleblower affidavit it's it's you know as if we needed that you know thinking people don't need to see that uh to know that those things are you know rigged there's still a hint of doubt in my mind as to what's happened did you watch you did you watch the debate you

watched some of it right so like that's what i like i mean even if you don't agree with the whistleblower thing and who knows right anyone can just put a document like that together there is no doubt that that was a three-on-one interview it's true and he mentions it here he says that harris had questions given prior to the debate there's a clear directive to not fact check harris for sure also there's a 50 50 chance harris had an ear pierce earpiece in her right ear this is this is a fun conspiracy did you see that conspiracy yeah i don't know either way trump was three on one yeah and yeah so they could send there you go he's saying the whole thing he's saying trump is number one option for november then vivek for 2028 yeah something like that yeah

so bon 1337 sats bon lee lee he says that i'm guessing cheerios, and Chest Doritos are the same people. I guess so. Cheerio Eaters are the best thing, man. Lightning Mick, 2100 stats, and he said he pre-ordered his CBP Bidax. Had some small issues with shipping options, but the team got back to him and resolved things nicely over a few days. Nice when you actually get decent service these days. Go DC. I don't know what DC stands for. De when you actually get decent service these days. Go DC.

Yeah. I don't know what DC stands for. Decentral. Oh, DC. Okay. That's very cool. I should have figured it out.

Now, the fact that he ordered one, I want to say thank you. Enlightening Mick. He's, I guess he's on Noster and he's doing his thing over there for the most part. And everybody out there,

if you want one, get on before it's gone, because like I said, I bought 73 joey bought one this guy bought one heck i don't think there's anything left so yeah uh i'll put it on ebay and uh it's maybe a stocking stuffer for a few people that are not not that are nice not naughty this year nice i uh i think my uncle might buy one too actually he was telling me he wanted to grab one now here's a question for you i didn't have the answer for can you chain those things what do you mean chain those things i'll tell you right now uh let me let me read this i didn't have

an answer for this and uh maybe it'll prove that i don't know that much about this already unchained chain the power of them together so you're doing the calculations quicker like making the attempts quicker as in a server with a 20 video cards used for gpu math processing yeah so when you're doing the calculations quicker like making the attempts quicker as in a server with a 20 video cards used for gpu math processing yeah so when you're doing a solo pool i mean the ones that i've dabbled years ago i don't mind anymore um you could that's basically what it is multiple things the same thing and increase your overall hash rate so yeah that definitely is possible with mining pools and so many pools yeah okay cool yeah anything else before we just dive right into this one i think that's it i don't know you got anything else i don't think so i don't let's hit the ground running yeah still

running indeed because sailor and safe they had a a tetaete this past week and uh it got a lot of buzz on bitcoin twitter or x twitter these days because there was a lot of talk back and forth the real thing that seemed to raise eyebrows uh was the fact that the yield talk and sealer was talking about if this is giving zero yield, it's a non-performing asset. And, you know, I guess he's somewhat right. I mean, gold would be the same thing. Like if you buy gold, does gold yield more gold? Gold is what it is. It's just a rock, right?

So you're not going to create more gold from gold. You have to actually mine it, right? Like gold itself is just there, right? Yeah, sure. Bitcoin. so like this whole yield thing i mean i don't know where like this talk is and where this idea comes from like where does the yield come from and how do you generate it is this like some sort of fractional reserve banking you that tap into because in a closed loop system if it's truly just bitcoin that you're dealing with solely bitcoin and it's closed you gotta take the if there's yield given it's gonna be taken from somewhere else from something else who is the yield you know i don't know now if

you're not dealing in that system if there there's something else involved, like some sort of paper or something that we can all agree upon that in the long run you could do it i guess in the short term but in the long run eventually you'll get wrecked because it's impossible to pay out yield when there's no new bitcoin being generated you know so like that's the question i have for him like okay it makes sense okay the store of value right bitcoin is definitely a store of value yep so i'm with that so like that in order to have yield though you have to have an ever-increasing money supply that we don't have that in big like i think sailor is so deep not just neck deep he's like in over his head i'm not saying like he's he's in over head, but just he's drowning in the world of TradFi. And so he's so into that. This is what he's worked in for decades.

And it's hard now for him to see, to untrain what he knows and what he sees. He is a Bitcoiner. Let's be perfectly honest. The dude is not a Bitcoiner. He is truly a Bitcoiner. He's not a shitcoiner, but he's not a Bitcoiner like you and i are bitcoiners no no no he he sees it for i guess for what it is to a point but he's a trad five bitcoiner there's a difference between that right and there is like yeah look at this there he says it all the time there is no second best i also would argue yes there is no second

bet including investing in MSTR. I knew you were going to say that. Well, this is the guy that's managing it. Now, he's done a wonderful job at increasing the valuation of the company, basically finding the cheat sheet to create debt and use that to buy Bitcoin or to dilute and use that to buy Bitcoin. But that works in this very fiat world. Where you can do that. Well dilution that could be done. I guess even in a. I guess maybe in a Bitcoin world.

In a Bitcoin standard. But that I can't see that being done. In a Bitcoin standard. So I just look at this. I think in my eyes. Safe is 100% right. Sailor is 100% wrong. sailor is a hundred percent wrong that's in a true bitcoin world but until then sailor may be right because when you're dealing

with us dollars and shit like that he is right unfortunately yeah boomer boomers in the chat talking about how this is like overblown to be honest i don't know how i feel i listened to it once i kind of like didn't think much of it and then on twitter this is the only thing people are talking about for like three days typical bitcoin twitter like we are autistic to the core here in a lot of ways this is a great example of one of these things i have i have two problems right one is sailor i have expressed my distaste for sailor over the last like you know six months seven months at point. I think that other people are coming around to my point of view slowly but surely. The question for me is when he says like, when he says stuff like it's an, it's not money. Okay.

It tells me he doesn't really know or pretends not to know what money should be or what money is meant to be or what money used to be defined as. Now he's saying it's a non-performing asset. Well, I don't think it's non-performing. If you bought Bitcoin during the pandemic at $3,000 and it's $65,000 now, is it non-performing in your opinion? His definition, he's not creating anymore. Yeah, he's defining it. He's making up definitions for this stuff.

And I'm not trying to defend him. I think, like I said, he's wrong in a Bitcoin sense, but in a fiat sense. And so this is the problem, right? Like why he's, he's one of the guys who talks a lot about this, you know, Oh, Bitcoin is, you know, the future of money. You know, we can't appreciate this thing. If we're, if we're worried about these other things like Bitcoin, everyone is the future of money. We can't appreciate this thing if we're worried about these other things. Bitcoin, everyone is going to do this eventually. They're going to take out fiat to buy Bitcoin because fiat is so worthless. And then in the next breath,

he's talking about getting fiat on a Bitcoin loan. Do I have that right? It just doesn't, it's all, there's too many opposing, like internally opposing views being held by him at this point. Are there not? When I hear this stuff with Safe, you know, I listen to his conference talk where he predicts like, you know, $3 trillion market cap or whatever he said recently at some conference. I just think that this guy is like, you know, he's, he's too smart by a half, right? He's, he's always, he's always got something to say and he's always trying to spin some narrative and safety and tries to, you know, get out in front of it a few times. And I think he's like a good, you know,

he's a good interviewer and he's combative when he has to be, but I just thought that that wasn't that great an interview. And I think Len Saylor didn't want it to go that direction, to be honest with you. I think he thought he'd be able to say that and then continue with whatever sort of nonsense talking point he wanted to say. So, you know, I'm looking at some of the chat comments here.

Yeah, if I lend you 100K stats for a few years, I would expect to be repaid more than 100k after the term of the loan is over fine where does that more than 100k it has to come from their own pocket exactly you're not gonna take it from somebody else exactly like it's like somebody is somebody is yeah i'm not gonna lend out any bitcoin with folks exactly who's gonna do that right and sailor for a guy who constantly, like you said, is talking about there's no second best, it seems like an unnecessary risk.

I don't know. Maybe he doesn't think so. Does this change your opinion on MSTR in any way, shape, or form? I don't really have an opinion on MSTR, except that I use it as a Fiat investment vehicle. So in terms of that... Yeah, like I have the... What? In terms of that lens, in terms of using it as a fiat vehicle does it no it doesn't no it doesn't change it the same way that

like i wouldn't even hold it against you if you were like buying mining companies mstr even if you were like if if you were thinking in fiat terms for whatever reason like you know when we first started the show we were talking about moving to dundas with my wife and i and i used to say to you on the show and we were a lot smaller and took a lot less shit in the comments, that the only reason I was still heavily using my TFSA is because I knew I would need that cash at some point in the next few years. The move is done. I didn't end up using all the cash I thought I would use. I didn't sell any of the stock. I still buy some stuff every week in my TFSA. As a Canadian, it's irresponsible not to use your TFSA.

That's like not a popular thing to say in Bitcoin Twitter, but it is irresponsible not to use it because you can get a ton of return even in fiat terms using the TFSA. So do I think MicroStrategy is like a worse investment now that he's talking this way? I mean, I never thought it was that great an investment. I just do it because it makes sense to have still in the current state of affairs, some purchasing power in the fiat system. It's just a fact. And I appreciate guys like Jeff Booth saying you got to put your money in the Bitcoin system. Yeah, I do. But as a person, and I mean, you know this, you have a little one, you and your wife work in the fiat world. Like I work in the fiat world.

My wife works in the fiat world. You can't, you, you can't be all in Bitcoin and live a life like that. You just can't. It's very difficult. It's, it's, I think in my opinion, you're giving up a lot of opportunity. Thanks to the way the TFSA works. You may disagree with that if you're in the chat but um you know i would tell you you're wrong i like i don't know if i'm answering your question or not i just think

that is a good way to leverage bitcoin so there's like man i can't believe we're gonna go on this topic so there's no like thought moving forward about getting rugs somehow in terms of your you're you're confident that whatever you put in you'll be able in it the medium to long term you'll be able to pull it out i'm at like the my tfsa yeah 100 you'll be able to pull it out and you'll be able to get liquidity access 100 yeah i mean look there's there's i certainly i have there's two there's two ways to answer that question right there's two ways to answer that question the first way is's two ways to answer that question. The first way is to say, yeah, I think I'm going to be able to get my TFSA out or no, I'm not, I'm not gonna be able to get it out.

You can answer it black and white like that. But the way you should answer it is if you think that your TFSA is at risk, then the next logical step is for you to like sell your assets and move to a country where it's, where you're not at risk. And so like if the risk is really as much as i may not get back my tfsa because the i assume you mean like the government is going to rug me in some way that's that's not a black and white issue because for example if you have family here it's hard to pick up and move somewhere else so you're kind of because of commitments you're stuck here so if you thought the risk was so great that the

government was going down a road where it would rug your investments like take from you years of investing we have bail-ins and this is this is jargon that okay there's always there's always a risk there's always there's always a risk but my question would be to the person not that you actually think this i don't think you think this but my question would be to the person who's like there's going to be a bail-in on tfsa my question my question would be like well what are you doing wasting time talking to me like shouldn't you be acquiring like guns ammo canned food you know training a small army of german shepherds you know like raising a farm getting more getting more access to an asset that you have total control over that nobody could rug

it could rug the to pull the rug from you well this over that nobody could rug it you could rug the to pull the rug from you well this is this is the direction you're going though right like if if the government rugs your tfsa it's not going to be the first thing they do like the the internet rug will come first the the mobile phone rug will come first things things will come fast yeah and you will not have a time you'll not have time to react to people that we agree on that yeah we agree the people that will get access to their funds first are the top of the pecking order and we are far from that we are we are essentially the yield for these guys and gals that's that's what we are so i refuse to be the fucking yield

so i'm gonna choose to i did i did here yet again i did here yet again uh this weekend that um the liberal government is mulling the idea of updating the um the pension uh mandate to include investing in canadian companies so they did have they did have to do that right i think uh 30 or 40 years ago every time you hear more and more of this and it just adds fuel to the fire like get the fuck out before you won't have any time to get the fuck out and people will be like you fucking kept it to the bitter end what a joke you had an opportunity to buy bitcoin self-cost self-costing that and nobody could take that away that's gotta be come on man just because you're

picking up nickels in front of a steamroller i don't i don't think it's about picking up nickels i think it's about having to have access to fiat dollars on like okay that's that's something else like that's that's the agility you need right you could still convert your bitcoin into fiat you pay taxes on it it's like it's what i mean like the opportunity cost is You don't want to sell Bitcoin. You'd rather sell the garbage. And so why not just keep the garbage and watch it go up in value against a garbage currency more and more, by the way, you know, who knows what the next rate cut cycle is going to look like. We're about to find out obviously, but it's, you know, I don't think it's fair to say that you shouldn't be invested. If you're like a standard household that you shouldn't be invested in in whatever your bag is right like if it's the index fine if it's mstr fine if it's

the miners fine like i i don't have a i don't have any beef with that i i've never had any beef with that i'm not like that extreme in my view but i think do what they want i know and i sit on the sideline and laugh yeah you should you should still have though like the exposure you should have the spot btc should be greater than those things though i would say right and that should be ever growing too it's not just something that's stagnant and the other things you could so by and in order to do so you're going to have to pull up from one and put into the other what i mean from pulling up from one it's pulling out of your tfsa bag and putting into the spot bitcoin so that's you know that's just me everybody let me ask you then like if you're me think about someone in my shoes okay

yeah my wife's supposed to give birth in you know seven weeks eight weeks whatever it ends up being knock on wood like would you have me move all my stuff out of my tfsa right now into spot bitcoin and then try and live off spot bitcoin uh while while the incomes are cut in half in my household it's a challenging time it's not challenging there's only one right answer no no you would not sell your tfsa you would keep the tfsa in cash as long as you need the cash in some not too distant future giving a blanket answer you see now but that's that's no that's that that's because there's only one answer the one i just gave yeah there is no other there's no other correct answer i don't know what you're going to say but it's not going to be correct this that is the correct answer see not only are you wrong you're fucking wrong there's

a there's a big difference between the two when you're fucking wrong you're so what you should do like in my opinion and granted it's easy for me to be an armchair quarterback. I don't have access to everything. But certainly, I would stay the course in your opinion and what you're trying to do. And once your wife goes back to work, and if all bills are paid, you don't have any debt, then you can start doing the slow chopping of the TFSA into Bitcoin.

Because at that time, you're saying it's going to be a year, a year and a half into the future. And we're a year, a year and a half, year and a half closer to going to hyper Bitcoinization. Everything's not going to be in a better state by then. It would just, it's going to be a much worse state.

How bad will it be? I think you'll be okay to pull out your money at that time, but for how much longer? I don't know. I would not rather continually roll the dice to just pick up more nickels in front of that steamroller. Fuck it. We've seen so many people get wrecked in the process. I would just rather just simply, as soon as I can, convert it. As soon as optimally I can, convert it.

What do you put the odds of a rug, you know, in the vein that you're describing, it seems to me, you know, a pretty extreme rug, I don't know, five years. I think it's very possible. What I fear, I could be way, way off on this. What I fear is that people's capital that's in the market, they're going to keep it in the market. They're going to forcefully keep it in the market. They don't want markets to die.

They don't want market caps to go down so they may just forcibly say you could take some of it out but you can't take all of it out and so your exposure to apple to amazon to mstr to whatever will remain at least a high proportion of your um overall um portfolio you can take a portion of it out and go from there. But I think they're going to prevent total liquidation. That's just my opinion. And that's going to happen I think in five years.

Fuck, look how bad things have gotten in five fucking years. Five years since COVID. Yeah. And this $35 trillion is going to be $45 trillion in five years. And that's just a number, I know. But we have to respect the fact that that number is taking a huge toll on people's savings, elderly.

It's taking a huge toll on people's wages, middle class. It's taking a huge toll on people trying to get any assets. We're talking about young people getting out of school. Everybody's getting fucked. So something's gonna happen you're not gonna sit idly by and say oh federal reserve keep continually what what you're doing something's gonna happen yeah whenever it happens i'd rather be in the right side of history by having my as much money as i can in bitcoin i wouldn't trust anything else fuck gold whatever fuck everything else bitcoin seems to be the best horse in this race for now yeah i think you're right yeah it's certainly things could

change that's yeah it's not going to be in a long enough time horizon bitcoin will go to zero may take millions of years it may take 100 years who does the heat death of the sun long enough time horizon to equal zero whatever whatever the number is yeah i think i think there's like um you know we're gonna see exactly what the nature of the risks are pretty soon like i said in the open you know australia proposing this law about not being able to tweet anything that calls into question or or you know lowers confidence in the banking system and financial markets and currency that's a big red flag. That's something you do right before you have a problem with your banking system and your markets and your currency.

And to me, that's a big one. So yeah, I mean, obviously, we're kind of just, me and you are just puttering around the edges here in this discussion. Yeah, because you and me are not really, I'm not materially allocated to anything except my house and Bitcoin at this point.

And beyond that, what happens to me it has zero impact on the global scale i'm just a fucking drop in the bucket and not even a drop in a bucket i'm just a drop in the ocean in reality so like what i do what i it moves absolutely nothing it's just but it moves my world so yeah so yeah um and one thing that's going to happen in canada is i mean we're going on a tangent here the real estate market yeah that's the one that's really so we should we should mention you just said uh you know there's an attempt to keep money in the market to stop things from falling when you look at the legislation that was just proposed um i guess is passed now you know what do you there? You really see that there's no benefits to people who already own homes. You're not going to buy a new build if you already own a home,

and you're not going to be a first-time buyer if you already own a home. So the benefits are just for people who are trying to get into the market. They want to drive more money into the housing market and make sure that people in the market don't leave. Interesting. I thought that they went that direction predictable though right it's they're doing everything they can i think to keep this thing steady as she goes but there's only so much pressure they could push on is this is this a story you want to talk about we could talk about later on i guess but there's still more bitcoin related stories we should be chopping them up we We're almost 40 minutes in.

We'll do one few quick ones. The Cathedral. This is, I think, an indication of what's going on in the world of Bitcoin mining, publicly traded Bitcoin miners, because they announced this past week. Their goal is going to be a new Bitcoin treasury strategy and all capital capital related decisions is going to be with the sole intent of trying to increase their sats per share ratio so interesting and remember they did a merger not too long ago with that company that was a developer and operator of high intensity computing infrastructure so that was back in june and now they are not going to do expansion of any mining they'll host for other people but themselves they're going to try to allocate as much of their capital to buy as much bitcoin as possible kind of like the the micro strategy approach i guess that's the closest comparison

i think they say right now cathedral holds 43 bitcoin or about five sats per share. Really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Like looking at this, it's interesting. But also they said they're going to take they'll do stuff against their ballot sheet assets. Like they're going to be doing some debt. They'll be taking they'll be using Bitcoin link derivatives to generate income.

I don't know. That's covered calls. And we could talk about that in generate income i don't know that's covered covered calls and we could talk about that in a bit so that's not that's not a big deal right that's actually the bitfarms uh synthetic hodl strategy same thing so i'll give you an example like if you want to do the covered call stuff there is a ticker in can, BTCY. And it's going to be the same that BlackRock's options ETF that just came live or announced this past week. If you want to check, there's a chart, Joey, I'm going to send it in the private chat if you want to share it, compares the BTCC, that's one of the spot bitcoin etfs in canada versus this um btcy this um covered calls

thing and you can see the divergence right from the very beginning that the covered calls etf is vastly underperforming the spot bitcoin etf so simply not trying to say that that uh buy into a spot bitcoin etf i'm just trying to say just simply buying bitcoin itself versus um if you could scan oh shit it didn't do it so if you go on the top left this is comparison so just on the left side i'm supposed to put it down here's the down oh here yeah yeah yeah yeah and type in btcc and there you go punch that in press save and change the time frame to a year or something like that so the top go to one year yes you can see gap it's a massive so like doing these covered calls thing like maybe it works in some environments if the number go up and it's

open if it's up and it's open if it's choppy it's not good i don't know either way if i had to invest in one of the two and granted past performance is not going to guarantee future performance as well but i would say like fuck just buying simply bitcoin itself is the way to go not dealing with this covered call bullshit so um yeah cathedrals you're saying they're doing it and so is bit farms looking at that chart how impressive is it it's not but if you mine bitcoin does it make more sense than someone who just hodls it but you're still gonna lose just by doing this covered call just yeah i'm just asking i don't i don't know honestly It's above my pay grade.

It's hard to say. Do you think the stats per share thing is a valid metric? Yeah, why not? If they want to use that as the be-all and end-all to value their company, I'm cool with that. I have no issues with it. And if they can increase it somehow without raising debt, that would be amazing. Taking on debt

i have serious concerns with anybody doing it because i just looked at what happened with other companies namely um core scientific and i know it's a different animal but man that left a sour taste in my mouth yeah i i don't see why not right it's um but whatever it is well Well, I also just like, I personally don't, I get why the SaaS per share is a nice metric for the Bitcoin crowd, but from, you know, in terms of like SaaS per share as a quote unquote productive asset or productive piece of a puzzle, like what, why, why do I care about that as a shareholder? Because like we've said before,

if you are investing in a Bitcoin company, then you have to be doing it because you need the associated fiat gains, in my opinion. If you're going to invest in a Bitcoin company solely for stats per share, boy, do I have news for for you you can just buy the stats yourself without worrying about the company like that's the thing i don't get right and you know as much sort of bag holding as i do on the tfsa side that's a distinction that's pretty clear to me if you're gonna buy a company for stats per share just buy the stats yourself there's no risk yeah just buy the stats or if you have to put it in one of those spot ETFs, at least it's matching. Jason Lowery, That's right.

And so what's the benefit? What am I missing here? No one's been able to tell me in clear terms what exactly the appeal is of the stats per share. Preston Pyshko, Why would you invest in any miner? Jason Lowery, Like I said, the only reason you would invest in a bitcoin company is because you need you need some fiat exposure for the fiat world and you want to benefit from bitcoin's growth yeah but that's those are what the etfs despite yes no that's what i mean yeah yeah no i'm with you i don't

know then honestly i don't know not only are your beta maybe higher beta like they go up a little bit but i mean that's all the risk that comes along with it. They could dilute, they could go bankrupt for whatever stupid reasons. Or they could buy jets. They could hire a DEI board or something. Or a clean spark behind it, but a jet? Yeah.

Shareholders are fucking funding that. Yeah, you're on look for it. We gotta get the jets per share metric that's what we got to find out that's what i want to invest in and the cbp we still have to start our own jet we're going to be at where if we buy a jet we'll be at 0.5 jets per share which is pretty good oh how many shares are jets isn't really oh you want to get more than one jet oh we're dcaing

into jets okay i didn't know. Let's not fucking around here. Bitmain, I'm not sure if you saw this, but they released some new hardware, and this is in partnership with Hut8. Very interesting stuff here, Joey. It's called... They have great names, by the way, Bitmain.

They have S9, S15, S17. They got all these S know the s's right and even the derivative s21 pro s21 xp all this shit but this one doesn't make sense to me u3 s21 exph the fuck does this mean i i don't know either way it's an absolute beast though this is 13 joules per terahash so it's pretty damn efficient it's 860 860 terahash. So it's pretty damn efficient. 860, 860 terahash per second, Joey. That's fucking almost a petahash. That's fucking a lot of fucking,

the most powerful equipment that apparently hit the market. And they do direct liquid to cool, sorry, liquid to chip cooling because this thing obviously creates a heck of a lot of heat. And the way that they decided to mitigate that, they have liquid to chip cooling because this thing obviously creates a heck of a lot of heat and the way that they decided to mitigate that they have liquid to chip cooling direct on this and this is going to be initially used and deployed by hut each unit consumes almost 12 kilowatts of electricity yeah it's insane i don't know i don't know why like this is interesting and

granted like but i just question how did hut get involved why did they why did bitmain work with them like what's the partnership here like how are they both benefiting from this and what's the end game here it just seems strange that they're going to be releasing this and it's in partnership with hut did hut just come up with an idea and then have bitmain executed for them i I don't know what the fuck's going on here. Here's the partnership. Fixed fee hosting agreement, up to 15 exahashes per second, fixed price purchase option, or six-month purchase option window. De-risked CapEx-like growth, a creative base case, free call option,

blah, blah, blah. This is what they're saying in the literature. The deployment is expected to increase HUD-8's hash rate under management by 81% with a potential path to 20 exahashes of self-mining. So they're going to host. They're going to buy and they're going to host. And I think it's meant for, obviously,

industrial partners or industrial clients. The thing that is most amazing to me is that these things are going in the same racks as the current gen of miners. Yeah. How is that these things are going in the same racks as the current gen of miners yeah how is that the cvp mining garage mining setup we could just simply replace our s9s and slapping a few of these guys might be a little loud and uh the city block may not get much electricity the entire city will be dark but 34 that's an hour yeah no problem so this is this is a partnership that's meant to be um yes it's geared around it's geared around that hut has the storage for these things and they will do hosting for you so like why is hut getting into hosting it's it's like we've seen this story before right it's not

new right i don't know i don't that's the thing this shit tends to repeat itself over a long enough period of time fuck it so what are these guys doing better uh you know than any of the other hosting services in the past that all got their teeth kicked in everyone remembers how much of a darling um shit what was the name of that company we had their ceo on uh i know who you're talking his name was his name was like his name was like chip walker or something like that was the compass mining compass yeah that's right you know compass was like the darling you know sort of the apple of the bitcoin eye for a long time right uh you go there there, oh, I'm hosting a miner. McCormick was another guy who was pumping Compass Mining.

That guy's track record for sponsors continues to impress. And they just couldn't do it. Why? Because it's hard to scale. Power purchase agreements are hard to come by. And maybe there's some thought by Hutt that they have all this stuff in place now and it's unshakable?

Is that potentially why they're deciding to get into this? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they have a whole bunch of new assets after their dealings with Validif. They took over some of what they had, I guess. I have no idea. Who knows?

That was like, I don't want to get into that one. I feel bad for some of the people that were involved. That was a gong show. But like, yeah, so to the questions here boom dust in the chat how big are the machines they say they're the same size as the ones that are currently out there shoebox fit in the literature you can go to the if you just type in hut eight and bitmain you'll see the the like whatever prospectus document basically um i don't know man i just like we've done this before also hut is not like p-man's asking for more mccormick i'm not gonna give more mccormick i'll say one go back and listen to oh no we we took it down from the feed we did an interview when we were in our infancy on this show with sue ennis, who at the time was the investor relations lead for Hutt. And we didn't have nearly the interview

chops, the sort of like broad industry credit, not that we have tons of it, but we have way more than we used to. And the sort of listener base that would hold us to the fire if we didn't ask our questions. We still asked some questions i thought that were like pretty easy to answer and shouldn't have been that difficult to get really quality dialogue going and you know i don't think we got good answers from sue she was relatively new i'm not trying to give her a pass but really what she's relatively new but like now she's the fucking vp so you know you want to get somebody that's racking fucking these you need expertise exactly yeah you got that's the guy you got to get in the fucking horn so they got aiden whatever now i think right he's their ceo i forget his name but uh what's with yeah that's

right that's right yeah yeah yeah so i mean look you know again minors you know i'm not sure why you'd invest in them but this is um this is what you get if you invest in them and if you'd like this kind of deal then i would love to hear why uh that's for sure you know my dms are open tell me why uh we're you know wrong to be concerned about this it sounds good you're getting exposure in this high-tech industry. Amazing. Right? You're 37% bonds, right? You're like 3% into Bitcoin mining. It's just like that, right? Some gold, some silver. It looks good on your

portfolio. Is that it? I don't know. Maybe you invested a little bit into the And like, you know, Jamie Leverton was the CEO of Hutt and they cut her loose they like i didn't think like jamie leverton was the ceo of hut and they they cut her loose basically like unceremoniously because it was the merger she i know but like you know what was i just none of this i don't like any of this stuff well let's talk about something else that we should not like did you see the fucking donald trump making rounds

on bitcoin twitter about the transaction he made at the New York bar. Do you see that fucking video? Friend of the show, Drew Armstrong. Yeah. Taking the president's phone there. Yeah. Just talking about Cathedral a moment ago. Apparently, this is the first transaction that Trump has ever made in his life. And I could understand that because this boomer was struggling to fucking do a QR code to scan that.

Like, how fucking hard is it? He's the Bitcoin president. He's bitcoin but like in terms of the technical knowledge you need to fucking scan a qr code that is so low on a totem pole this guy couldn't fucking do it either way um someone pointed out this was custodial lightning transaction too so that's it let's i mean do you care let me ask something okay all this all the technical stuff aside custodial not custodial lightning qr codes do you give a shit about this you care that he's doing this yeah it's a bad look if anything because they were wondering did it go through and it went through and yeah it went through yeah so there was questions if it was going to go through it it just looked like really bad bush league lightning in itself should be fucking easy and quick as long as there's

liquidity it should be done like that and why this took so long and why did it took so many people to get involved i mean a few people just looked so bad and like awful in my opinion this isn't the way it should be we got to make this thing better easier to use i mean i think it's easy to use already in terms of just fucking scanning a picture but what the fuck do i know it's got to be done better this is the guy that's going to be championing bitcoin also that trump coin he's going to be championing as well that's that was my next question for you you know i i have a hard time understanding i mean don't get me wrong i realize there's like infinite potential in terms of the benefit to having a presidential candidate potentially the most famous and popular man on the planet who is also at the same time the most famous and most

hated man on the planet in your bar doing a quote-unquote bitcoin transaction i get that but man that was like what two days after the world fi token launch three days after that was that yeah last week was last week we started the show at six last week to get out of that guy's airspace um and they had i mean the only benefit of them going to pub key uh was that the red scare girls were there too and they talked to trump about coming on their podcast and got it on video i would love to see trump on red scare that would be like, Who's that?

Oh my God. Red Scare is my favorite podcast for sure. It's so great. No, it's not ours. It's Red Scare. It's Red Scare. Red Scare. What are you talking about?

Listen, it is very politically incorrect. And so I will just, you know, make a statement here that I don't agree with everything the girls say, but I think they're pretty funny. If you can get past the vocal fry, then you'll enjoy the show. Did you see now that BlackRock is being reported? I have no confirmation of this, but it seems interesting that you're saying that BlackRock is now telling Coinbase they have to deposit and settle their on-chain transactions 12 hours after the fact so

remember we were talking before we i don't think we both in fact we didn't believe in the fact that there's paper bitcoin that's being sold by coinbase because of the fact of regulations and there's so much that could be lost and but now it seems funny that blackrock's intervening to try to make sure that no this is not the case. Fucking do it. Settle. And this has to basically just put this to rest that there's some paper BTC that's being done. For sure it does. For sure it does.

I think that maybe I'm wrong. I could be proven wrong. But, man, why would they do this? It doesn't make sense. There's so much that they could lose as a result of this. If Bitcoin goes up, if they're trying to suppress the Bitcoin, why would they do this? It's doesn't make sense. There's so much that they could lose as a result of this. If Bitcoin goes up, right? Like if they're trying to suppress the Bitcoin,

why would they do this? If, but if it goes up in price, they're going to benefit because there's going to be more sales. You're going to make from Bitcoin and their shit coins. And more people are going to look at Bitcoin and don't be flocking. At least a portion will be flocking. I agree.

I agree. So I listen, I put this in the title of the podcast for tonight because I thought we'd talk about it. The thing that I think is worth noting about this is that it's BlackRock asking for it and not Coinbase saying, no, like we settle every 12 hours.

What were they settling? Like what timeframe were they settling before? I don't know. I can't find that anywhere. Was it a day? Is two days, 24 hours? Was it the T minus three thing? have no idea but it's interesting right and coinbase are at around the same time plethora pointing this out recently they seem to be going down this road rehypothecation right with cbtc

or cbbtc whatever and so like blackrock for all the shit we give them for being Johnny come lately and they don't get the ethos. I just want the gains. Seems to me like maybe somebody over there gets it. And I'm, I'm happy to see this because this is something that we should be holding. This is standard. We should be holding these guys too.

Right. I think this is, it's overdue. I really wish I knew what the settlement time was now. Uh, it seems to me like even 12 hours is a bit long. Like why not just settle at the end of every day maybe that's what they do but the 12 hours would be longer than every day right i don't fucking know like 12 trading hours like what

is it i don't know i don't know but the fact that they're trying to put a nail in a coffin this whole debate about the paper bitcoin i just found it to be rather interesting and i to be honest i couldn't find much to support this. If this is legitimate or not, it could be just some rumor that's floating on. It's around though. They get a few places have tweeted it. So it's not just Bitcoin accounts.

We've had this in the past. That's yeah. Shit gets floated around. It's, you know, until it's verified. Before we go to, before we go to the notable stories,

do you want to talk a riot and bit farms? Yeah, we could talk about that talk uh riot and bit farms yeah we could talk about that so riot and bit farms they came to a an agreement and uh it's looking rather good uh for riot probably not so good for bit farms in the end either way um with respect to bit farms there's going to be some shuffling of the deck for the directors. And they put in somebody that is a new director that may be more amendable to the Riot acquisition. For sure.

And so the Bitfarms co-founder stepped down. He's no longer on the board. So that's just an FYI. So you have one of the co-founders is no longer there and just goes to show you when somebody that was there from the beginning left, the direction of the company may go a different way. He's forced out, right? The other thing, too, is they added a board seat. So that new board seat will be on the comp committee, which means they'll be you know, salary and Jeff Lucas's salary and all the C-suite guys salary.

They're, they're, they're going to be on two other committees as well. If you've ever, if you've ever done board work, you know, that the board, you know,

board of directors is sort of this, like, I think I would, I would call them like political bodies. First and foremost, a good board is political uh together toward external actors a difficult board is political with each other toward internal actors and i think that this board is heading that second direction now so ben put out a statement that he's for it

he looks forward to now focusing on growth blah blah blah i think at some at some level they're probably just glad to be done with this until 2026 is basically when the standoff order expires. Uh, it's not actually called a standoff order. It's called something else, but, um, you know, it's, it's like, you know, are they going to try and just make good over the course of the next two years? And then riot's going to say, nah, that's not, not, not what we wanted. It's not as good as you said it was going to be. It doesn't meet our standard, blah, blah, blah. Maybe, I don't know. But if you're a shareholder of BitFarms or Riot, this is certainly interesting news for you. Kind of out of left field too, by the way.

These guys were getting ready to have a shareholder meeting on the 26th. And as Jeff said, when he was on our show a few months ago, that was the, I think, proposed date for the poison pill. So now that's, I guess, guess out the window I don't know I'd have to look more into this this news only hit today so there'll be more on this for sure and I look forward to seeing what Ben says in his public appearances over the next 48 72 hours

that's it Joey let's do the notables let's do it god bless stay here if you're on video or spaces and if you're on audio we'll see you tomorrow for more news don't invest in TFSAs don't listen to Bankless and don't be a cock