The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP #191 (Bitcoin Stories) - MSTR Buys More, Rumble Adds Bitcoin, Tether Backing (Bitcoin Podcast)

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Join us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠ ⁠Discord: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/YgPJVbGCZX⁠ A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork⁠ This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ ⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. D-Central Technologies - ⁠⁠https://d-central.tech/⁠⁠ Your home for all things mining! Whether you need a new unit, a unit repaired, some support with software, or you want to start your own wife-friendly home mining operation, the guys at D-Central Tech are ready to help. With industry leading knowledge and expertise, let the D-Central team help you get started mining the hardest money on Earth.

Friends and enemies, welcome to yet another edition of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. I'm Len. Today, this week, I'm joined by the one, the only, this man needs no introduction, Mark from EasyDNS. How are you, Mark? Good, Len. How's it going? Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you coming on. Look, for today in particular, I made sure I wore my EasyDNS shirt because I have to rep the shirt for the man who, well, gave me the shirt. So I appreciate you giving me the swag. And I worked today, so I showed it off. One person was looking at it. It didn't say anything, but he was looking.

Either way. Mark, you're joining me because Joey is still dealing with the birth of his child. Everything is going well. Everything's great. He's just relaxing, trying to recuperate because for people who are unaware, Joey and his wife are now parents for the first time, and they're going through the whole process of learning what it's like to be a parent. It's tiring.

It's exhausting. A lot of work, a lot of new chores that have to be done. Mark, you've done this before. You know what it's like to be a parent. It's tiring. It's exhausting. A lot of work, a lot of new chores that have to be done. Mark, you've done this before. You know what it's all about. Hey, I did my time. So yeah, my kid just shipped off to university. So I'm done. Well, you're never done actually, but it's never a finished job.

So anyways, that's why we buy Bitcoin to help make the, at least the payments moving forward a little bit easier and ease that burden and you know what mark before we go any further i think it's it's a good opportunity to ring in our sponsors and we have easy dns as our first sponsor and i don't think i could give it justice as to why I would use DNS. I would start up to be a customer or move my existing products over to them or talk about the services in which EasyDNS offers. Maybe you could do it for me. So I'm going to pass over the baton to you.

Yeah, I'm aging myself here if I riff on the old Victor Kayam commercial. I remember that that from long ago. I liked the company so much I bought it. Yeah, I liked the company so much I co-founded it. And it was just because in the late 90s, early internet, we were running into the same problem all the time. People couldn't control their own domain names. They were held hostage by their web host or by their ISP. And we wanted to set everyone free. And the mantra

of EasyDNS has always been, we kill lock-in in all its forms. So as decentralized as the domain system can possibly be, we try to maximize that. And it's a natural fit for Bitcoiners. You might want to run a Noster node. You might want to run, you know, your own Lightning node or whatever under your own domain name. We do it to take, you know, we use our own Homeworld system to take Bitcoin payments under our own domain. So you don't have to use a third party service. So that's what we're all about and uh we have the uh promo code for listeners of the canadian bitcoin podcast and it's cbp media uh 50 off i think your initial purchase and that's why you should load up your cart with a whole bunch of stuff because you're

going to maximize your savings yeah by doing so it's all fair game there's something you didn't note that is very important is that how many businesses competitors have come and gone during the time in which you got into easy dns you've been in this for over 25 years and think about all the competitors are just now just part of the world and you just steamroll them and here you are still standing doing your job so yeah we're still here we've been around since 98 there's lots of domain registrars have come and gone but also among the pure play dns providers i think we are among the last man standing because pretty well all of them have been absorbed by larger entities and kind of

ingested by one borg or another so check it out open an account ezdnest.com use the promo code as mark mentioned cbp media 50 off your initial purchase we have a second sponsor and that is bull bitcoin the price of bitcoin is not showing my block clock. Well, actually, it is right now, maybe. Let's see. Yes. Look at the price. $92,000. That's, I mean, not financial advice, of course. That's a steal. That's on sale. I would buy some more Bitcoin if I were you. Not financial advice, of course. And where would you buy it? Bull Bitcoin. Not only could you buy, you could sell if you wanted to. So you have the opportunity to stack or reduce your stack. You could get some fiat in exchange for your bitcoin on chain lightning they got you covered the last block was mine five sats per v byte was the average i would suggest continually do it on

chain because by doing that at least you're not gonna deal with the lightning eventually you're gonna have to do a lightning but at least right now you can do on-chain buys and bull bitcoin as you covered you can also pay your bills so if you want to say pay a car bill rogers bill whatever bill you want you can use your bill service to pay a bill with your bitcoin and another thing you could do with your bitcoin you could buy gift cards for them so you can get like an amazon gift card home depot card whatever look christmas is coming up people have to buy gifts for themselves for their family for their friends Why don't you use your Bitcoin to do that? And Bull Bitcoin will help you facilitate that buy. So check them out. And if you open up an account, use our referral code below, you're going to get $21 added to your account once you fund your

account and provide the necessary information. Lastly, we have... Wait a sec. What's the code? I don't see the code. The code doesn't exist. It's a link. So you have to go onto our description below. And you do have that link. What's that domain? Oh, I want bitcoin.ca, I think. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I totally forgot about that. I've been swamped with so many different things lately,

but thank you for reminding me with that. Not to interrupt before you get to BidX, but I love bull Bitcoin. I have some contractors and stuff that want to get paid in Bitcoin, and I couldn't do it through a different Canadian exchange provider because they wanted to KYC everyone downstream from me that I wanted to pay in Bitcoin. And I thought, you know, that's absolutely crazy. But with Bull Bitcoin, I just get their, they just send me their Bitcoin address in their invoice. I put that in the buy

and it just goes straight to them. No must, no fuss. I love that about bull bitcoin so and non-custodial exchange this is what you want and yeah and well we have decentral tech decentral technologies they are our third sponsor like you mentioned you talked about you briefly hinted at the bidax look the bidax it's a great way to start and dip your toes into the game of bitcoin mining it's challenging to do if you don't know what you're doing, it can be very costly. So if you want to learn about it, why not get a Bidax?

It's quiet. It's efficient. You could run it beside where you sleep. You're not going to make a heck of a lot of sats, but at least you could do a solo mining. And every 10 minutes, you are part of the lottery ticket to get one of those blocks rewarded to you.

But if you don't want one of those smaller units, we get something bigger, say an S19 or S21. They have you covered. Decentral Tech will be able to provide it to you. You get one don't want one of those smaller units, if you get something bigger, say an S19 or S21, they have you covered. Decentral Tech will be able to provide it to you. You get one that's going to be quiet. You get one that's a little bit noisier, but it's going to be giving you better terahash, so more sats

per day. Lots of different options. You could even do heat your home with one of these Bitcoin miners. Check them out. They're based in Montreal. The CBP branded Bidax should be coming out released this month. I've been told they're shipping this month

November. Fingers are crossed that's the case. So check them out if you're in Canada and you want to learn about and you want to buy some miners for yourself. Decentral Technologies. I've used Decentral like I've bought from them and I must say they have excellent customer service,

which is something I always appreciate. So a shout out to them for that. Great follow-up, great delivery, great company. Just like EZDNest, you got some great service in Bull Bitcoin as well. Birds of a feather. Yes. Now I just want to check a few things off my list of things to do.

So number one, I want to thank Dan Webb from the high hash rate podcast to come on last week to discuss, you know, various things, but also sadly, he informed us that the high hash rate podcast is going to be taking a hiatus and not sure for how long, or if indeed it will come back,

but he discussed it. And I'm very thankful that he was able just to, to disclose that information on our show, but big thank you to Dan for discussing that. Secondly, this week on Wednesday, I have a prerecorded interview with Hero of Bitcoin that's going to be released. I did it on Saturday morning, our time. It was his time Saturday night. He's in Australia.

So considering the time difference, it was tough to schedule a time for both of us. But we managed to get it done. It's going to be released on Wednesday to video at 7 p.m. Eastern. And the audio is going to be released on Thursday morning at 7 a.m. Eastern. And for those who aren't aware, Hero of Bitcoin made this game that's available on a whole bunch of different Game Boy platforms. It's like a 16-bit type style game. But it's based in el salvador there are npcs like samson mao and um gosh max is in there so it's really cool stuff and he

you know all from scratch you could buy it play it check it out there's even a demo available online so um i hope you enjoyed the interview i certainly enjoyed it so and one last thing mark before we go any further uh we have some boosts we have received i just want to read them off i want to appreciate everybody that's at the boost all these boosts i'm just going to pile them up and give it to joey for his little one so top wk1 250 sats he says in the army my units had to account for every item and every penny if you were issued something you had to show you had it or you had to buy to account for every item and every penny if you were issued something you had to show you had it or you had to buy a new one every item spent for travel each cent had to

be tracked you paid a difference so to see at the dod level they can't find 1.8 trillion of equipment or even how much they paid in the salary or bought this was respect to a story we talked about last week in that the audits they they failed every audit to date. The Pentagon has done that. It's a lot of money. Anyways, appreciate those sats. Wartime, 333 sats. He says congratulations, Joey, and a whole bunch of emojis.

And I'm sure he's going to say thank you for that on behalf of him. Wartime also writes in 333 sats. A couple of beer mugs, so a big cheers. Right back at you, big guy. MoeBTCDick, 500 sats. 100% in favor of bringing back the Bitcoiner in no corner of the week. You know, by popular demand,

I think we'll have to do this very, very soon. Not this episode, but very soon. And last but not least, MoeBTCDick, another 500 sats. He says, the CBP circle is top tier. I enjoy listening to the guest hosts as much as yourself. Enjoy. Best Bitcoin hang around. Last week we had Boomer.

This week we have you. Two weeks ago we had Mr. Arnome. We're blessed. That's all I can say. We're fucking blessed. Mark, anything you want to get off your chest before we go any further? I had to do a little bit of a rant there with all these things i had to take care of the 100k call during the show tonight is in jeopardy but um you know we're on for like an hour 90 minutes anything can happen this is bitcoin but you know uh i'm wearing the

hat jordan anderson gave me the hat in the last cycle. And I thought finally is going to be the time, but oh, well, Kramer had to come out and say, uh, for the win, but you know, a motherfucker,

he rejinks it for everybody. Anyways, boom. Dusk was saying when CBP video game with respect to hero Bitcoiners, if anybody wants to go and program it, be my guest. Uh, as long as there's meets a few

criteria we'll be happy to let you go do it but if any uh budding programmer wants to take a stab of it go nuts so and last he writes an honor to be mentioned in a sentence with our gnome and mark boom you're like you're part of the family brother so anytime you want to come on and in fact you're coming on hopefully next week so ah that 100k hat mark it would have been a great time to unveil it and say we finally hit it we're so fucking close what was the number was young you know where are we now i know i know i know but i mean it just goes puts things into perspective perspective where like last I saw was 92,000. Two weeks ago, 92,000, we would be laughing at that. This is great.

Now it's like, nah. But you know what? Just it's not a bad number to be at 92K. What was the, okay, it wasn't that long ago, the August 5th Black Monday crash. Like when the, remember when Japan sort of boosted their central bank rate by like 15 basis points and it was expected to be 10 and they blew up the entire global financial system? I was having lunch with Joey like in Dundas and we were just sitting there watching Bitcoin plunging like in real time. It dropped like, I don't know, $10,000 like between our appetizer and our main. And that

was in August and that was in you know, everyone all the cool Bitcoiners remained calm. But where were we then? I mean, that seemed like you know, the whole world was going up. It was like we dropped from 65 down to like 55

yeah in one day and where are we now like is anyone actually fretting because we're at 90 no 90 but even then even 91 as fringe ginge btc says dips are for buying and if we consider this a dip which I do and stack away I actually see 93 3 on coin gecko, but I My block clock is obvious. It's now several minutes old it updates every five minutes So now this went to something else it was at least you know five plus minutes ago since it's got something Yeah, that's the saying we were closest 99 870 as the price so And various exchanges have different prices, but we were so close.

There was a sell wall over there that had to be overcome. There wasn't enough capital to overcome it. Yeah, it'll happen. Yeah, it may not happen today or this week or this month, but it will happen. Fiat is slowly being devalued. And I guess that's it. we should just dive into the shows sure the show the show notes and there's so many things we got to talk about and number one i i want to just bring up a story that is there's some news that transpired this week and even today in

fact rumble the we're streaming on rumble right now so this is something that is kind of close to our heart and rumble announced that they have adopted a bitcoin treasury strategy they have said they're going to be allocating up to 20 million dollars this is hot off the wire not too long ago you mean they're doing it they're doing it so michael saylor was talking to them and so their ceo chris pavlosky was hinting that should they should adopt the bitcoin strategy he posted this on x sailor replied in a message saying that he'd be happy to discuss i guess they must have had a powwow behind the scenes and rumble just an hour ago or so they announced that they're going to go ahead with a strategy of 20 million dollars that they're going to be

buying corn and look a lot of companies they're doing this as it seems to be buying corn. And look, a lot of companies, they're doing this. This seems to be the thing that's in fashion these days. And even Rumble, when they first hinted at this a few days ago, their stock price, it jumped up a little bit. And investors were happy about that. And it's a darting move that a lot of Wall Street companies, they're doing. Just allocate some cash, buy some Bitcoin. To me, like from from this see it seems like a no-brainer you could allocate a you know even a small small portion of your cash into bitcoin

and just get a little bit exposure learn the art of self-costly don't rely on coinbase like micro and then hopefully reap the rewards of bitcoin as the price goes up then potentially use that as an asset to borrow in the future should you need more capital so either way i want to just give a shout out to pletitor because he also posted just not too long ago he dug into rumble's financials and he's saying that they're unprofitable they're losing about 50 million dollars mark every quarter yeah i was going to talk about that oh then i'm going to pass it over to you then i want to hear your thoughts i don't want to like at the risk of

channeling my inner peter schiff and i mean i have a lot to say about bitcoin treasuries right i've been calling it the bitcoin effect in the newsletter for months now right and it's part of like there's a larger conversation here that like both companies in general and countries are now doing the game theory about adopting a Bitcoin treasury strategy, right? MicroStrategy, obviously the grand poobah of all this, even though cough, cough, EZDNS had a Bitcoin treasury strategy in 2013, but were not publicly traded. So anyway, at the time MicroStrategy adopted this strategy, they had $560 million in cash on the balance sheet. I've always said they were admittedly sort of a middling data analytics company.

They weren't exactly crushing it or hitting it out of the ballpark. They were kind of making a bit of money. Sometimes they'd lose a bit of money, but they were like, let's call it cashflow neutral or moderately cashflow positive. And they decided to do this strategy and then they have gone more than all in on it. recurring revenues that I've always been thinking in the back of my mind that this could be used to build out a Bitcoin economy infrastructure company, right? Using lightning, using whatever. You know, it made a lot of sense. Len, you've frozen up. So I don't know if I'm still here or if I've fallen off this whole broadcast. But it brings us to Rumble now, which is losing. Did I just lose Len?

Mark, I'm still here. You're still here? Did you lose me? No, my thing just froze for whatever. I can still hear you. Okay. Yeah. All right. still here did you lose me no i it just my thing just froze for whatever i could still hear you okay yeah all right so i was just talking about sort of micro strategy as like it kind of made sense and it still makes sense and there's still this functioning cash flow positive company behind it that could leverage all this bitcoin they've accumulated into whatever like a lightning network and financial play rumbleumble is losing $30 million

a quarter, right? They're burning their cash. They've got 85, trailing 12 months, 85 million in revenues, cost of revenue, $143 million. They are negative $57 million in gross revenue. Their operating income is negative $142 million trailing 12 months. They're burning all this cash. They do have 160 million cash on the books. They're burning 30 million of it a quarter. And you're telling me they're going to take 20 million of this and put it in the Bitcoin. Okay. I get it. You know, the stock has gone up, but my, you know, I'm kind of stodgy and old fashioned. You have one job when you're a company

and that's to be profitable. Like they should do that first. I think Bitcoin treasury strategies are for profitable companies trying to figure out a way to reinvest their earnings, right? Do they buy another company with it? Do they buy back their earnings, right? Do they buy another company with it? Do they buy back their shares with it? Do they issue a dividend with it?

Do they do some sort of shareholder return with it? And one of those now is to put that into Bitcoin. So I see the pop. I don't really see, it doesn't make the most sense to me for rumble other than you know just a manipulation of the share price which i guess is okay it's kind of the game when you're public i suppose but uh if it was you know if it was my shareholder money i could have just bought bitcoin straight out instead of buying the Rumble stock. I don't know. It just it makes sense for a lot of these other companies that have adopted Bitcoin strategies.

Right. You know, some are scientific and meta planet. And, you know, they had money sitting on the sidelines. They weren't burning through it. So and Microsoft, like that's the big play. I guess we're going to talk about that a little later, but it's the whole Bitcoin strategy, Bitcoin treasury strategy. When does it make sense? When does it not make sense?

I think there's companies not doing it that should do it. And I think Rumble, at the risk of sounding like a sourpuss, I think Rumble is an example of a company that's doing it that maybe should focus on the business instead. Yeah, that's well said. You have to have a healthy balance sheet before you take on this endeavor because what's the reality if you start buying Bitcoin? Well, you're taking it to be used for something else.

You are going to be using it for something else because you're burning it. So you're going to have to somehow borrow even more money or raise more money just to make up the Bitcoin buy. And you are really hoping that the price of Bitcoin goes higher than the price in which you bought it at. If it goes lower, that money is locked in until it reaches a point where it's now worth

more than what you put it in. And so it's a risky strategy if you don't have a healthy balance sheet. And with respect to easy DNS, I mean, are you able to talk about how difficult it was to start a Bitcoin strategy some 11 years ago? It was it was simple. And it was actually very compelling. Because we just did it, we didn't go out and buy Bitcoin. Our Bitcoin treasury strategy was always just take payments in Bitcoin and don't convert them to fiat, right? So that was it.

So the transaction volume was so low that we didn't miss it. We didn't need that. What little transactions were coming in in Bitcoin, we didn't need that money to run the business so we could just leave it and just sit on it right um you know Boomer pointed out in the chat that uh micro strategy is doing a lot more than just holding the Bitcoin like they have these initiatives that are underway like the micro strategy one and these different things that they're trying to build on top. My sort of crib notes have always been that I think MicroStrategy wants to become the Microsoft of micropayments.

I think that's ultimately where all this goes. They kind of become this financial institution built on a hyper-Bitcoinization standard. And Len, what you've said multiple times when you were talking about it, this is what I can never get across to no coiners. Bitcoin is a balance sheet play. Right. And in fiat world, everything comes off the income statement. Right. Yes, you have to be a profitable company. That's sort of like job number one. But your your valuation and your multiples and all of that generally come off of the income statement. What are the earnings, if any? And it's a multiplier of that.

And the balance sheet, kind of like no one pays a lot of attention to it. With Bitcoin, the entire thing is the balance sheet. And I think that point is missed on a lot of people. It's not an income statement play. It's completely 100% of balance sheet play. And it's something like you're just going to leave it there. I don't think somebody or a company is going to be using that to trade. Depending on the jurisdiction in which they reside in or they're operating in,

there's capital gains taxes that are going to be applied when you buy and sell so really it's just a buy and hold for the most part and then for a long long term and use it in the future it to me it makes sense to allocate for well you know companies that have healthy balance sheets is small on a really small amount i'm not telling companies out there advising them not that i have any sway to ape in it doesn't make sense especially look just today it went from like 93 sorry 96 000 97 000 to 92 if you can't stomach that type of drop in just a few short hours you have no business being in bitcoin but a small amount may give you the opportunity just to learn about it and to understand the nature of it the price swings and everything that goes along with

it. Let's be honest, it's now like a $1.9 trillion asset. It only took 16, not even 16 years to get here. It's incredible. It's been a wild ride for people who have been in it for a long period of time or even a short period of time. And for every company that buys in and starts learning about it, they're hopping on for a really crazy fun ride. But they got to just put things in perspective. It's not going to make their company wealthy in a very short period of time, but it's not going to make them poor as well. You know, just put a little bit into it. Stack away.

Learn how to hold your own keys. That's one thing, I mean, that for me, I don't want to go into tangent, but I'm going to have to. MicroStrategy, why don't they hold their own keys? It's not a regulatory thing. Tesla doesn't use somebody else. They hold their own keys. So it's a choice that they've made to have somebody else hold it. They use Coinbase to custody your Bitcoin.

Could you imagine going out there, raising all this capital, tens of billions of dollars and purchasing? They have what something like 300,000 Bitcoin in a balance sheet? I could be wrong. And they have 380,000, 380,000 Bitcoin in a balance sheet. And having somebody else control the keys to that. That's asinine to me. Well, you know, I'll be devil's advocate on that conversation, right? I mean, we've all, we're all Canadians here. Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure there's some that aren't, but we all know who Gerald Cotton is, right? And so, I mean, there was a guy with a Bitcoin balance sheet treasury strategy who held his own keys and look where that got them. So, I mean, it's not an apples

to apples comparison, but when you have that much Bitcoin on the balance sheet, I could, I could understand the lot, the business case logic. I mean, it might not even have ever been up to Saylor. I could see the board saying, all right, you really want us to do this, then we are going to have to have professional institutional grade custody. Or, you know, this isn't going to happen. It may not have even have been his decision. Whether Coinbase is the best institutional grade custody, I'm a huge Coinbase fan. I think they would probably be number one on my list probably a short list coinbase swan or unchained are basically you know the other the three companies that have the capability of custodying at that level playing at that level i know coinbase takes a lot of heat

around here but um you know the the list is pretty small i wouldn't't put it with Robinhood or Citadel. I wouldn't put it with the Fed. They got hacked. I get the business case logic to say, look, if we're going to go all in and bet the entire farm on this, then, you know, we're not going to let Michael Saylor walk around with a ledger in his pocket that has all this. It doesn't have to be a single individual that has, it could be a multi-sig situation. It could be time-locked.

You could do a whole bunch of strategies to ensure that it's not stolen this. And that same type of risk of it getting stolen is now being handed off to a third party. So rather than just having them control it and trusting themselves, they're trusting a third party. Mark, I love you. I wouldn't give you even 0.1 Bitcoin to hold on for me. And just imagine that. And to me, 0.1 is a decent amount.

It's not my whole my whole stack but i wouldn't even give you that to hold on for me for the future like i i wouldn't trust that i for me at first 100 i control my own destiny and micro strategy could do the same thing so you know if you look at how they could get their bitcoin back they now hold it with coinbase i don't know what the mechanism is to get the bitcoin back they must send an email send some specific codes comes from a whole bunch of different people well that seems to think type of thing could be a multi-sig done yourself and you know you're eliminating a third party from holding on to it so i'm just looking at this when you're talking

about an asset if they're talking this thing is going to be trillion dollar assets, sorry, trillion dollars on their balance, what's going to be worth in the future. And you're having somebody else hang onto it. Imagine like buying up gold and just putting it in a vault in London and saying, don't worry,

I trust you guys. Ask Russia that. Everybody who holds gold at scale has to do that. That's the beautiful thing of bitcoin you don't have yeah i know but like everyone i mean gold has always had a custodial issue yeah right and a transportation issue moving it from you know it it it solves the problem of space right that's a time and space that's fiat and gold so anyways micro strategy we talk about them today they made some more waves because it's been announced that you bought more bitcoin some what the heck is it 55 000 bitcoin

incredible they just keep going in and this is part and parcel of their recent initiative right they're going to be raising 42 billion dollars and they now hold 386 000 bitcoin into all coinbase holder for them so they have um claim to it it's a lot of bitcoin that you know that's associated with them and they're borrowing this money at like a very reasonable rates did you see that they got zero percent convertible senior notes that are going to be due in 2029 three billion dollars of that like if somebody's going to be offering a cbp that type of offering i could guarantee you wouldn't buy corn so if anybody's out there listening and wants to give us some really favorable rates like that no brainer we'll take it and then uh yeah we'll

see you in, in five years when it's time it's due. So not sure if you want to add anything to that. Yeah. Just, um, I, I meant to look it up before the show.

Like it blows me away that micro strategy can borrow billions of dollars at lower rates than the U S government. Thank you. Boomer 4.3% on the U SS. tenure. Now, I know this is a convertible and U.S. Treasury paper isn't backed by anything and everybody knows it, but it even almost tells you there that microstrategy shares are a more tangible backing for debt paper than UST bills. And so it's the other interesting thing is that it's they mature in 2029. So that's outside that four year cycle, right? Like sailor knows, and that comes up again later. And then one of the other stories we're talking about, that

there's this almost institutional knowledge or belief, whatever, that anyone who holds Bitcoin for four years has never been underwater. I mean, I think there was a couple of days during the nadir of the crypto winter last cycle, 2022, when there were some people who would have been underwater after four years, but that kind of went away within 30 days of that. So the bonds mature in 2029. They are redeemable and callable back after December 4th, 2026. So if Bitcoin keeps going up, he's never going to let those convert.

Probably. He's probably just going to redeem them back and like buy back his debt and reissue debt again and just keep kicking that can down the road. It's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. There's a there's a Richard Byworth podcast. I can put it in the in the show notes where he sort of explains all of the mechanisms of the, um, of how these, uh, convertibles work and just the sheer,

like snowball flywheel effect that he's making with this. we all kind of know it but he puts a really you know good good fine point on it and the convert it's four years out at 672 dollars a share so it's almost like i was trying to wrap my head around this because now we're at like what 400 I think it closed out this morning he's almost writing his own call option that he gets to redeem before it goes into the into the money I don't quite know how to explain it but there's something just sheer brilliance about it because of that hard cap on the bitcoin puts that floor underneath it it's going to keep going up and he's just it's the hugo stein's play right the guy from weimar germany who just levered up and bought everything in germany practically because he knew the mark was falling apart he's you know sailor is doing the same thing he's channeling hugo stein's

but he's instead of using like all these other tangible assets like shipyards and railways and coal mines that he was buying he's just buying the the scarcest resource there is which is bitcoin so pure brilliance um you know it's like you found the cheat code in order to accumulate more and more bitcoin without really impacting the bottom line of the business and you know just continually borrowing and then adding more debt and just rinse and repeat it makes sense as long as the as long as this works i mean i'm not just trying to say it may not work in the future i just don't know this is a world that i am not privy to and it's hard for me to wrap my head around everything that's going on there so i'm not to say just investors be worried it's just

i have no fucking clue that's the reality of it so it's working great for him and i said this before and i'll say it again i wish the best for micro strategy and i wish the best for micro sailor i don't want either of the two to fail i prefer them that they both succeed and succeed tremendously but you know to be honest a lot of this is outside my control i just watch things just play out before me i have nothing to do with this so uh great play by him it is i avoided like i kept my subscribers like on the newsletter out of microstrategy for the first year and a half because i thought i just don't like levering up to buy bitcoin when you can just own bitcoin and own the miners if you want that sort of leveraged exposure to Bitcoin.

And then last, I guess, July, we added them to the portfolio because we just said they were in the toilet. And we just thought it was the whole space was in the toilet, even though Bitcoin was clearly in a bull market again. And we're just like, OK, let's just not argue with it. We're adding MicroStrategy. I started to understand a little bit more about what he was doing and then it has exceeded our expectations. I mean, now I think it's a race between MicroStrategy and Coinbase to be the first trillion dollar company in crypto wow so i haven't followed mstr's market cap uh it's a little bit under 81 82 billion right now so it was 100 billion i remember recently i saw that listed yeah a couple days ago they peaked at 100

some coinbase market cap it's a just under 80 billion so they're running you could say neck and neck yeah interesting but i if you have to ask me like right now and again like since i don't have much skin in the game with either two i have no fucking skin actually neither to do it and i don't know all that much about coinbase with respect to their bottom line micro strategy probably is the the inside scoop to actually get to one trillion as long as their Bitcoin doesn't get rugged because just the fact that they own Bitcoin. Coinbase, it's been said a few times on X

that Coinbase could have been MicroStrategy if ever they decided to buy it. They had every opportunity to do it. They were selling it themselves. They could have just purchased it and added it to their balance sheet, but they just weren't able to see the uh the finish line here or maybe they played it safe i don't know either way good for them trillion dollar company we'll see i don't know yeah they both will be yeah and speaking of sailor it was a lot of sailor talk today this guy he is reportedly going to be talking to microsoft

because remember microsoft about a month ago it was announced that their shareholders are going to do an assessment in investing of investing in bitcoin and it's december 10th just next month week and a half away two weeks away they're going to be voting on this issue and so it's not a green light to buy bitcoin it's just simply to move forward with an assessment for buying Bitcoin. So it's a very prudent approach, and it's likely to appease a lot of shareholders. And with this move, now, Michael Saylor has been given the green light to give a three minute opportunity percent a Bitcoin strategy to Microsoft's board. And his rationale is that it's going to be the next

trillion dollar uh the next trillion dollars asset so like it's something that you can just stack and it could turn into a trillion dollars and santa was saying that because they have huge hordes of cash and they're all burning shareholders value so it makes sense for the shareholders to expect or want to have this type of investment it gives them the best return on investment but i'm still still extremely skeptical that microsoft is going to a pass this this uh this proposal i guess and b at once it gets passed and if it's approved that they buy any bitcoin however they've been accepting bitcoin for some time at least they have in the past for some of their services like if you wanted to get uh microsoft i forget which one it is like their xbox uh pass or something they were accepting bitcoin for that a long time ago

so they understand it they were accepting it they probably still have it in the balance sheet i guess but anyways they have 78 billion dollars in cash just sitting microsoft so i'm not sure if you want to add anything else well the fascinating thing about that story was that entire episode was kicked off i think um i mean the first time it came on my radar anyway was a group called the national center for public policy research the ncppr wrote a letter to the board saying, if you don't put some of this cash into Bitcoin, you are opening yourselves up to shareholder lawsuits. So that's what kind of forced this whole issue. And that's why Saylor is coming to town to talk to them about this. And that's what's forcing this December board

meeting about it. And what blew up in my mind the moment I read this story is we are going to see the very first Bitcoin corporate raid where, you know, shareholder activists are going to identify companies that could be making better use of their excess cash, like we were talking about a little earlier on. They're going to go in Carl Icahn style. They're going to like buy up a percentage of the company so that they have ability to force a special shareholder meeting or call a proxy vote and they're gonna tell the company to start stacking sats with their excess cash like that's gonna happen because I mean well I'm not gonna lie I actually have a deck that I'm

preparing like I'm gonna make it happen if I don't get there first, somebody else is going to get there too, because it's just sitting right there. And I already know a couple of companies that should be doing this that aren't doing this. So, you know, that the same way Donald Trump saying the United States should adopt a strategic Bitcoin reserve has changed the game theory for geopolitics in nation states. As soon as the first Bitcoin raid happens on a company and they have to adopt a Bitcoin strategy or they don't and suffer the consequences, that's going to change the game theory for every corporation in the world, every publicly traded corporation who's going to then say,

well, now we have to have a Bitcoin strategy lest some corporate raider come along and force us to do it. I want to, you touched on something and I don't want to let this opportunity go and feel free to say we can't delve any further, but you mentioned that deck that you're preparing. Yeah. Didn't I send it to you already yes but the the word in there mentioned you know that i can't you can't say the name i i'm that's why i'm saying very little i want you to say whatever you want to say yeah i'm

not we're not there yet so So hit me up on Twitter. It's the kind of thing, it's accredited investors only would be able to do this sort of thing. But I am making inquiries and talking with securities lawyers about what exactly the boundary lines are of all this and how we would play this kind of a playbook out so for people out there that have a business or has a friend or family member that has a business and might even have an idea about doing this they should reach out to you and potentially we could you guys could figure something out you could discuss with them Show them what's the best path forward. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to talk to companies about how they can adopt a Bitcoin treasury strategy. I'm talking to a couple of companies about that now. But this is something a little different.

This is about kind of like an activist shareholder play where you kind of like grab a company a publicly traded company by the collar and you kind of make them adopt a bitcoin treasury strategy right do you think that is it's it's going to be something that's going to like in the next year or so it's going to happen over time for sure but do you think that we're ready for like wall street and the average shareholder do you think this is something they want to see in the next say 12 months uh it doesn't really matter what anybody wants what really matters is what the incentive structure is putting on the table in front of us and an idea that you know won't go away even if i let it go somebody else is gonna like the same picture and say this is this is this is gonna work so it's it's a hard sell when you see the price of bitcoin ramp up very quickly to like

99 000 and then just today's show go back to like 92 and change it makes the the whole pitch very difficult to accept and yeah i'm talking about is from a bitcoin point of view yeah i think actually um i actually think the opposite i think by careful selection of the right targets and persuasion methods i mean you don't have to be carl i can which is like barbarian hordes kicking in the front desk. You can be more friendly about it. And hey, you know, we're just a significant shareholder and we have this idea and we can show you all these precedents of companies that have benefited from doing this strategy. And it might not take too much nudging really to get these companies to go, oh, yeah,

okay. You know, maybe we're not not going to lever up to buy Bitcoin, but we do have this garbage cash sitting on our balance sheet that's just dissolving away like an ice cube, and we can do something with that. You got to degen them. Show them some account that they could do a 125X trade and just drop a few grand on that

and see what happens get yeah liquidated within seconds bitcoin first and then meme coins this is a topic there's not much i could say and i'm hopefully you could talk about it is canter fritz gerald this past week i'm not sure if you followed what's going on but number one they acquired a five% stake in Tether. And you and I enjoy talking about Tether behind the scenes. I'm not sure if you want to give some insight what your thoughts are on Tether, but I just

wanted to just set the table for you. Cantor Fitzgerald, the 5% stake of Tether, $600 million deal. Now, LendMath tells me that's a 12 billion dollar valuation that's good bad i don't know what it is it's just what it is that's what the match math tells me so um they also announced a bitcoin financing business back in july a 2 billion bitcoin uh financing business back in july now'm going to just pass it to you because I'm not sure if you're going to run with this for another 30 minutes, but I have a feeling you have

you want to say something about each Cantor, Prince Gerald, and Tether as well. Actually, I have not done any work on this story prior to this thing the way I have on some of these others. Tether has been just this big question mark in

my mind for about two years now. Right. It's like, we've talked about it, the three of us, how they're like among the top, what, 10, top 20 treasury paper holders in the world right now something like that um does that make them untouchable or does that make them a target right like some people say oh you can't touch tether because they own so much treasury bill paper but you know i kind of every time someone says that i think about the knights templ, right? They held a lot of debt from the sovereign back in the day and probably thought they were untouchable. And then the sovereign just burned them all at the stake and tore up the debt. So that was the end of that. Will that happen to Tether? I don't know. Someone like Cantor Fitzgerald coming in,

there's this phrase, I can't remember who described it originally. It might've been Bloomberg actually, who talked about the bezel, right? So that in communist countries in the Eastern block where corruption had been so woven into the fabric of society, it was called the bezel. That was kind of like the lubricant of the corrupt financialized system, right? And this kind of smells to me like Tether has ingratiated itself into the bezel of Wall Street and Washington and they did it. the big question is, are they fully reserved or not? That's really all it comes down to. If they are not fully reserved, they are a fraud and they've gotten away with it. If they are fully reserved, it really doesn't

matter how much, how badly we think they're a shit coin. They're fully reserved. It's as advertised. Where I can't wrap my head around them being fully reserved is when you go back to the FTX bankruptcy where Alameda and FTX were like the largest or the second largest receiver of tether right uh what's boomer saying this deal is about showing tether that they need to play ball canter is in deep with trump yeah like it's deep state politics right and so um i just can't believe i i don't remember the number from FTX. Somebody might know it. It was like 17 billion or 20 billion Tether were supposedly issued to Alameda and FTX. And you're telling me that Alameda and FTX, who at the time were swirling the drain, selling client Bitcoin to try and keep themselves alive, right? Which was putting a cap

on the Bitcoin price. Are you telling me that they sent Tether $17 or $20 billion or whatever it was so that Tether could keep that peg fully reserved and backed? I just don't buy that. And so if there's a 17 or $20 billion hole there, then how many other holes are there? And again, like you look at, everyone says, oh, tether issues, attestations, like, yeah, but that's not a real thing, right? Attestations, I can get an attestation from some virtual bank out of Vanity that says I've got like $100 trillion of something behind me, but it's just an attestation, right? Contrast with like Circle that issues the CUSIP IDs of every tranche of paper that's reserving Circle, right? It's like you can trace it down to every individual piece of like that paper that's backing them, right? There's no question about Circle not being fully reserved. It's not a thing because they have fully audited reserves and the peg is there. So, you know, Tether could be like just like full of shit.

And if they are and Cantor's buying into them and the SEC is backing off of them, it's like then everybody knows they're full of shit and a fraud. And it's just all part of the deal. And that's not, you know. So how does Cantor play in this whole deal? Clearly, they must have done their due diligence before they parked $600 million into this company. How much does Cantor have under management? I have no fucking clue. I wouldn't even have guessed.

Like, is $600 million a lot of money to Cantor? I think $600 million is a lot, period, but what the fuck do I know? I don't know. Not to Microsoft. Like Microsoft, it's like a rounding error, right? They wanted to throw a billion at this just to like put the optics up. I don't know, right? But still.

And if the investment is indicated across a bunch of other people behind the scenes, then I don't know. Like, I really don't know. I actually, I should have looked at this a bit more before we came on, but I didn't. And so I don't know that much about Cantor Spiegel. So assets under management, they're saying $13.2 billion. Okay, so $600 million is a good chunk then. You don't want to vaporize $600 million if that's

call it 5% of your 7% of your... When we're saying $3.5 billion, the website I used to get it, and I'm posting it here, is the CantorAssetsManagement.com. Maybe it's the wrong... I don't know. Either way, it's just low billions.

It's single digits or maybe very low double digits. I don't know. You're looking at this and you're wondering, is there something more to it? And I've always suspected something's up with... I have a feeling Tether is fully backed. I'm not saying that they're not. think they are fully backed yeah i i i'm in the camp and i could be the only person in this camp could be just me in here that they're becoming i want to say competitors to united

states dollar but at least they have the ability to use it in ways that the United States can. For example, if you want to send large amounts of money overseas, you've got to use a SWIFT system, right? And there's a huge alliance with the Federal Reserve. So if they want to say that they can't go to a bank, and they can stop going to a bank and say, pick a country, Russia, it's not going there. But Tether, they lost the ability to stop transactions going to its end user. If Tether, if somebody is using Tether and wants to send tens of billions to an end user in Russia, Tether has the ability to stop it, but not the United

States or the Federal Reserve. So by having the Federal, sorry, the tether in existence and the ability to move large amounts of capital and without any input or intervention by the Federal Reserve, I think that creates, I don't want to say it's competition, but at least there's something there that they don't want. The Federal Reserve doesn't want. And I could see them in the future. And this, that may be tinfoil hat on me. I should put it on. They just simply cancel all the treasuries and everything they've purchased i'll tell you like to your point you're bang on on all of that i mean i've said it before you know will the government i mean we're beyond this now but like back in the days when

people said will the government allow bitcoin to exist That was never like at issue with me because I just didn't think they had the ability. But what or even like the motivation, I guess, I suppose they would. But what really blows my mind is that there was not there was that stable coins were allowed to live. Right. I can kind of get that like they didn't think Bitcoin was a threat. And by the time they realized it might be, it was just too late. Like it was just the genie was out of the bottle. But stable coins from the word go, I can't understand how they actually like got off the ground. Like, how did that possibly happen? It's like, they're doing the exact same thing that like the Liberty, who was the Liberty silver dollar guys

from back in the Eagle days who are probably still in prison, right? And they did the same exact thing. They created a stable coin out of silver right we're gonna issue these silver dollars back right and they went to jail straight to jail and the eagle guys went to jail and like everyone involved in that went to jail because it was like you can't issue dollars right only we can do that and then along comes these stable coin companies like bitcoin at least it's like this isn't a dollar it's a bitcoin and right now it's worth like less than a penny like who cares all right whatever crazy internet money we don't it's not really a big deal but these other guys come along and they say we are creating literal dollars backed by dollars it's like i just can't wrap my head around how that happened so so iam

is saying that they could sell the treasury bills to the black market and gray international market this is a topic i have no idea about it's very fiat and i just don't know so is there a market for that you sell it a discounted rate does the federal reserve still honor the you know what i mean there's the i don't know there's a lot of questions i just don't know but there's something about tether that just it seems like it's operating fine sorry there's something about tether that does not compute yeah and i i believe that they do have it fully backed i i don't know why i'm on that side of the fence well i want it to be fully backed by the way because if it's not when it finally comes to light like yes bitcoin will survive but it but it will be a major corner candle for everything.

Right. 100%. It's going to impact the price tremendously. Boomer, again, in the chat, these stablecoin companies popped up as the Chinese stopped buying treasuries. U.S. needed a buyer for its debt you know i once wrote an article on bomb thrower on like why the next fed induced bubble could be in bitcoin yes really right and it was kind of that same argument that boomer is making there and this would almost like if they would know that like okay we need a buyer of last resort or first resort.

We need a buyer of first resort for our paper. So we'll just funnel it all into the stable coins, knowing full well that from there it's going into the crypto world. Right. And so, yes, they are kind of like blowing up the bitcoin bubble because even deep state cantillionaires know that fiat is doomed and they all have to get on the right side of it anyway so they're all just allowing it to happen and probably jumping on board i don't know it could be that i always wonder they did quantitative easing just a few years ago so if there's no buyers for bonds

just buy the government bonds themselves i mean i'd like to look the central bank total monetization which has happened but that's like then then inflation goes into triple digits if you keep doing it right like you you basically that's the starting gun for real hyperinflation good point see a lot of this it's beyond me this is why i buy bitcoin and i'm the left side of the bell curve that uh that kind of just uh the eyes are wide for uh wide apart and i just i don't care what a price is or what it's doing what's going on around me. I want more corn. I'm the one who looks like the anvil dropped on his head. That's me, man.

That's me, Mark. We're an hour in. This is the end of the Bitcoin side of things. Don't get off Mark, because we're just transitioned seamlessly to the notable stories, the rest of the news. And for people listening in,

we'll be back at this tomorrow for people watching this, just stay here because we're just going to, as I mentioned, seamlessly transition to the rest of the news. So with that, take care. And not sure if you have any parting words, Mark, for the Bitcoiners out there. No, I mean, keep on keep on stacking. And don't be a cuck.