The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP - Dan Webb - Another Mellow Bitcoin High Day

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Joining the CBP this week is Dan Webb, the co-host of the High Hash Rate Podcast. With the vibes so high, there is no better way to enjoy what Bitcoin has to offer by sparking one up. Dan can be found on X at https://x.com/hrtlndbitcoin The High Hash Rate podcast can be found on X at https://x.com/HighHashRate or you can go check them out on their website at https://www.highhashrate.com/. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. D-Central Technologies - https://d-central.tech/ Your home for all things mining! Whether you need a new unit, a unit repaired, some support with software, or you want to start your own wife-friendly home mining operation, the guys at D-Central Tech are ready to help. With industry leading knowledge and expertise, let the D-Central team help you get started mining the hardest money on Earth.

Friends and enemies, welcome to yet another edition of the mighty CBP, all part of the CBP Media Incorporated. Here we are. I have Dan Webb sitting on the sidelines. I want to bring him in. And of course, I'm Linda Legend, the supervisor of Sunnyvale Trailer Park. He'll be my assistant for today until I get kicked out. Then he'll be the supervisor and I'll be his assistant. But until then, a few things I got to bring up. Number one, well, actually it's the ad reads.

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where you are but wherever the heck you are yeah yeah i'm in omaha Omaha, Nebraska, middle of the country. I just wanted to make one comment that I've been on my fair share of podcasts, and this one is by far, like, you're the most professional, like, the best, like, you know, whatever. We're not using Zoom here. We're using something that has backstage and, like, you're doing stuff live. Oh, yeah. I love it. I love this experience oh i know welcome and i appreciate you every once in a while we have somebody that comes on that

blows me and this is your turn to do that so this is great yeah appreciate that so i just wanted to to introduce you to the cbp audience in case they haven't but then you run up until well there's the high hash rate podcast something which a lot of people listen to our show listen to yours too so maybe you could talk about the high hash rate podcast because i like listening to that show yeah yeah if you uh if you're a fan of the high hash rate podcast you know it's been a few weeks since we've had a new episode come out um but and we have a few more that are still in production a great great one with Tomer, really great conversation, Tomer Strohleit that's coming.

But unfortunately, um, we haven't really talked about it or put anything out there yet, but we're taking a hiatus and it is potentially permanent. Um, Mike had, you know, a bunch of life changes, um, come, come hit him, you know, this summer and this fall, and this fall and he had to get a new job and he's having to adjust to that and he's working on a script a movie script that he's been writing for years and he's trying to get it done by the end of the year so right now we're thinking about starting fresh in 2025 um but to be determined um so unfortunately if you if you are you know haven't heard of us there's not going to be too. So unfortunately, if you, if you are,

you know, haven't heard of us, it's not going to be too many new episodes coming out for you to check out, but we have a pretty good back catalog, I think. And I think there's, we've got Canadian Bitcoiner podcasters and just a lot of other

Canadian Bitcoiners on our podcast. Some of the best episodes, honestly. Yeah. Boomer fundamentals was on there. Goomba. Goomba. Goomba.

Yes. Goombas. Goomba, yes. Goomba. Also, one more thing I have to ask. How many episodes did you actually produce for high hash rates? Off the top of your head, do you have any idea? No, I'm Googling Fountain right now. I want to say like 105. See, that's a crap load.

So when did you start it? see that yeah yeah that's a crap load what so what's the hit when you just started yeah so we started in it was our first episode came out it was my birthday april 19th 2022 so me and mike we met uh i was working just remotely in bitcoin beach in el zante there was no events going on down there i just went down and stayed for about a month got escaped the winter here in the midwest and mike was down there on location so i work at swan and at the time i had just begun working at swan and mike also worked for swan at the time and they were down with natalie brunel um and they were and they were filming on location all over el salvador so we ended up meeting just like by happenstance, like, hey, we work together.

And we started hanging out and we got stoned on the beach a couple nights and we just were talking about Bitcoin. We were talking about mining and it was at that point, when people talk about, they learn about the difficulty adjustment on Bitcoin mining and it like changed everything. They're like, that's when I knew,

it's like some crazy event like that. that's what we were talking about we had no idea really about um any of the the technicals we were just kind of making it up but it was a great conversation we're like we should do this um we should do a podcast we should call it high hash rate i was like i did not want to do a podcast at the time at all i didn't think that uh i had i didn't think anybody should listen to me but um but the high hash rate name i thought it was so cool i was like all right we got to do it so that's how we we started the podcast that was around a time when tara luna i think blew up did you do it before or after the um the podcast came out i think the week after uh terror loon is blowing up and then um maybe our second or third episode that's that's when celsius goes then a few more

episodes in uh you know block fi goes and then i think we really actually hit our highest numbers and really started to grow and accelerate right after FTX. It's too bad then there wasn't more exchanges that went tits up. Because could you imagine if Coinbase and Binance and a few others, you would have been the Peter McCormack of the Bitcoin podcasting world if it continued at that pace. No, I mean, think about it. What is the worst possible time if you are trying to build a successful bitcoin podcast that makes money or anything like that right the worst possible time would be to start it when teraluna collapses in the last cycle and then just like all your you just keep going through like every exchange

collapsing pretty much the whole bitcoin and subsequent crypto industry is imploding on itself. Many people think it's forever, or at least for a few years. And we just started our podcast. But we were in it for the culture, man, because we just kept going. I don't think we even mentioned any of those events. I don't think we ever talked about any of them. i don't think we even mentioned any of those events i don't think we ever talked about any of them i don't think we ever even like mentioned like the price is crashing we just kept talking about how great it is to be a bitcoiner and go to bitcoin conferences and yada yada and talk to great people and uh that's why i think it was a great bear market podcast and it really was it was also a great bull market podcast the one thing that i i thoroughly enjoy and i think you've done

it more than i is go to these conferences or meetups that when you're surrounded by people that are like-minded bitcoiners hard-ass people i always come away from those meetups with just an extreme amount of energy and the thing that we not only are going to win we already won right i love going like i encourage anybody out there that has not been to anything that's organized or even haphazardly organized, just meet up at a bar or whatever, attend. When you do that, it's going to improve your overall mental health, and you're also going to be coming out of that more bullish. You're going to want to sell a kidney or something to get more Bitcoin.

So how often do you tend to go to any events? I'm curious. I mean, I go to a few conferences a year because I work in the space. I had a podcast. I have a lot of friends, people I work with. Everybody's in Bitcoin. So it's kind of, I have this connection with the community that I feel like, um, it's, I always have it. So it's, I went to more conferences and things like that before I started really getting into the industry, but like that was kind of my foot in last time, it felt like, um, man, I want to stay connected with these, the people who are going to stick around and who were here for, you know, like they're in for the long haul. And that's kind of what it was. We just were using the podcast to meet great people, interesting people in the space, learn more about them, have conversations with them, and then use those conversations to build more build on that and have better conversations with more people and uh yeah

it was just kind of is like we're here for that we're here for that we're here for the um the community as much as we are for the price obviously and it's a hell of a community too and it continues to grow because of what's going on with the price shit my block clock just switched again the price it was 94 and change what it was last showing here so that's causing a lot of new eyeballs to look at bitcoin and people are trying to get as much exposure to it because they you know obviously they're getting wrecked in so many other ways but they're looking i guess at the etfs as the primary point of getting in the door and a lot of money flowing into those etfs but i want to hear your thoughts on that because I've talked negatively in it,

but I don't know, maybe there's a positive light to this that you could point out to me. Well, I'm curious. So it's like the big number here, everybody's excited for is a hundred, a hundred thousand dollars, a hundred K,

but you guys already had your a hundred K moment. And I, I'm wondering, did that spark? What was that like in canada is like is our should we expect people to be like oh my god bitcoin's 100k or did that happen in canada and people were just like whatever no it came and went you know that meme of the guy sitting in front of the computer and he has the party hat on and it hits the the price and he he's he's angry

and then it goes to the next frame and it's what it is. There's no change whatsoever. And 100K Canadian meant absolutely nothing because we priced the Bitcoin in USD. That's what really matters. I think it's like 130-ish Canadian right now, or 120, whatever the fuck it is. It's a shitload, but nobody gives a fuck. It's all about USD.

So once that 100K comes in, it's party time, buddy. It's party time. Yeah, right time yeah right well i'm wondering i don't know i i think that i think maybe there will be a little bit of that but i think partially uh i think a lot of a lot of bitcoiners are just like really waiting for that moment where everybody in their life that they've been talking about bitcoin and they just can't seem to get them to pay attention to it. They're looking for that. I told you so moment and like where everybody's like, Oh, you were right. I should have bought. And I don't know if you get quite that reaction that you're hoping for, if that's what you're looking for. But, um, I do think that it will definitely kind of be a turning point. And I think the markets are, are definitely going of be a turning point and i think the markets are are definitely going to be bullish

for a while at least in bitcoin when i my work i don't want to say too much about it but people over there they're noticing bitcoin far far more yeah and yeah like boom does the same does that mean joey is the assistant sunnyvale trailer park supervisor nah man it's just me when he's here he's the head honcho and i'm the assistant i have to take off my shirt and walk around like that. So yeah, the ETFs, it's a lot of capital flowing into it. And I'm wondering if just like any system, any system that has a lot of important and sensitive data, eventually there's going to be some attack against it.

And that's what I wonder about these. How well protected are they? They probably are very well well but is it enough to hold back attack after attack eventually one of them is going to make its way through the walls and fuck that's going to really be a uh black swan moment i think if something happens to an etf in one way or another yeah um i think that that is a i mean i think that's a lot a rational thing to be concerned about. And I think that's something that a lot of people are like, how are these ETFs going to serve as a honeypot? Or is it going to create this secondary or primary market where people who are actually trying to do peer-to-peer, they're not really going to be able to interact with the markets that are working with these ETFs.

But I think, honestly, that the next year or so is going to be a lot of change. I think that the U.S. election, Donald Trump, the way things – this is kind of playing out with how he's setting his advisors. It's going to be a very – it's going to be a lot of change. I think it's going to be a lot of change. I think it's going to be a lot of volatility in the political system at first, but I think that Trump is still generating support, and I think he's going to have a lot of that mandate. I think that they're going to use a lot of tools at their disposal to get things done. They're already showing that they're kind of willing to do that.

And I think one of those tools that it's very clear that they are thinking about is Bitcoin, the strategic Bitcoin reserve, all these other things that Trump has promised he's going to free Ross. People he's putting in place are, you know, Howard Lutnick was at the Bitcoin conference talking about most of his net worth in the hundreds of millions is in Bitcoin. he's putting in place are, you know, Howard Lutnick was at the Bitcoin conference talking about most of his net worth in the hundreds of millions, you know, is in Bitcoin. So they're thinking about it. He's surrounded by JD Vance. They're connected to Peter Thiel. These are accelerationists and they're going to use, they're going to press the orange button because it will, at least if nothing else, create, you know, a distraction in the media, on social media, in the financial headlines, in the

financial markets that allowed them to be the ones that come in and say, we've got a plan to regulate this. We've got a plan to benefit from this, whatever it is. They're going to be rewriting all the rules. They're kicking Garyary gensler out they are going to re-define it's like they're going to redefine what the regulation what the rules are and they're going to use bitcoin in a way they were yes i think they are going to be very very um good for the bitcoin price that's gonna the number is going to go up and it's going to go up hard i think next year at least uh but they're also going to go up and it's going to go up hard, I think next year at least. But they're also

going to, you know, why everybody's excited about that. They're going to start putting in all these new regulations and these new, you know, guidelines, et cetera, that are very good for the price. So if, you know, if you're paying too much attention to the price, you might not be paying attention to a lot of these new, new restrictions. So back to your question about the ETFs. While I do think that as a problem, I think we're going to have a much, much, much, much bigger picture of problems to be digesting.

Then, and I think the ETFs are going to be just a very small bit of that. Yeah. You know, Trump coming in, I mean, I'm going to switch gears slightly here with Trump coming in. He,

because he has the house and the Senate, that's Republican, so getting things done theoretically should not be a huge problem. There shouldn't be too much resistance in doing so. But another thing to consider is that this is his second term, and he cannot run again. So there's no long-term thing that he's trying to do to try to get reelected. He's simply just going to implement and institute whatever he wants, what he thinks is best for the country, and maybe for his legacy. And that's basically it.

So there's no, like, I have to do something and keep that carrot dangling just so I get reelected. That's not in play this time around. So this is something, and I'm wondering how this is going to play out, especially stuff like the Bitcoin Act that Lummis threw out. And it still, you know, obviously still needs to be debated and so forth. I think that's, you know, it's interesting to hear about. I don't think there is a hope in heck that there's going to be any strategic reserve of Bitcoin.

I have, there's just a piece of me saying that's just not going to happen. I don't know how they're going to fund it. They'll say they have the means to do it. I don't just can't see them doing it. And the thought of selling gold for doing to happen i don't know how they're going to fund it hopefully they have the means to do it i don't just can't see them doing it and the thought of selling gold for doing it i don't know there's there's just too much that's just i can't see this happening it's a great idea yeah i don't know so i think that uh i kind of take the other side here um i think that what they're the things that will be the most difficult for them when they assume office will be things that require active Congress that actually require significant reductions in budgets, especially

anything connected to healthcare or military defense. It's going to be very difficult for them to cut any of those things. But what they are going to do i think is find opportunities and i think bitcoin again is a big one where there is not a lot of regulation right now or there is not a lot of um clearly written rules about what you can and can't do and they are going to exploit those to kind of give you this, you feel like they're making a lot of changes or that they're making big, like if the Bitcoin price or market prices are going crazy, it's volatile, that signals that, oh, they must be making big changes, right? They're going to, I think, use that. They're going to leverage that, especially with Elon Musk. They're going to make social media. It's going to be such

bullish headlines for everything they're doing. That's what's going to be popular. So I think that Bitcoin is a great opportunity for them here because what is Bitcoin? It's not real. It's just an abstract thing. How do you buy it? Well, they could buy a few billion. That would be very easy to shift around something in the executive budget, just to spend a few billion dollars on the strategic. You could do it with an executive order. He was just meeting with Brian Armstrong. They probably just buy it on Coinbase through ACH or a wire. I think we're overthinking it. Preston Pysh, I think the money overthinking it. I think that the money's not real. The U S dollars in the white house budget is not real. A few billion dollars. That's just

numbers. They send a coin base and coin base says you've got these UTXOs now and whether they keep them in coin base custody, which they probably will. Um, or, you know, or a cold card, you know, in the basement of Fort Knox, like, uh, I don't think it matters because again like it's you know bitcoin is it's not it's not a it's not a it's a very easy thing for them to manipulate and do with what they want to do with it it's just information it's just more information they can manipulate that's all i'm saying boomer makes an interesting point saying that government should get into the mining game yeah and just this past week i i heard that i was reading bhutan that was mining bitcoin they generated already one billion dollars worth of bitcoin that they mined and that's a significant portion of their

overall gdp and they're using excess electricity to do so green energy at that the i think the issue is in the united states i don't think they're in a position of energy surplus i think they're importing a lot of energy especially like the western states uh like looking at california so it would be great for them to develop more energy production yeah but i think they're just tapped out at the moment so it's yeah um i think that i think that's a really good point i think that right now we're paying god know billions and billions of dollars to just the salaries and benefits of completely unproductive, worthless bureaucrats. If we can cut some of those jobs, all of those jobs, and then mine, it's still unprofitable most of the time. If you're running your miner, it's not the most profitable when the prices

are low but if we're gonna be inefficient with our spending we might as well do it to be bitcoin miners um but anyways uh you know it's it's they're building more nuclear for ai trump's all about drill baby drill um we have the capacity to be uh produce a lot more energy than we do and more energy than we need to be exporters i just don't know it's that's not something that's going to change overnight um it's a it's a commitment and an investment that uh is a little bit more long term yeah i think an easier way to get around everything instead of just simply mining bitcoin or just somehow maybe hooking up the runny printer and buy bitcoin why not just buy a bunch of shares of micro strategy that seems to be the best way to get out of any sort of debt just run it up buy a

bunch and sit sit back and maybe get that even at 1.75 times leveraged etf or the micro strategy just fucking do that for a little while i think that's the best way for the u.s to maybe maybe that's what they're doing i said maybe the reason that sailor is able to sell these convertible notes is because the u.s government's buying them and they're going to be issuing all the shares that they get uh on the maturity date to to the citizens it's going to be like a UBI and your microstrategy shares are going to be so high that you can pay off your student loans. It's a win-win for everybody. Preston Pyshko Larson 1.0 How did he manage to secure 0% debt for four

years? I have to go to Wednesday. Dr. Justin Marchegiani 1.0 What I've heard, what I've read is that the people who are buying these or loaning him these billions of dollars for no interest are like insurance companies, reinsurers. They've got a general account, which they are not allowed to buy risk assets, not even like stocks, not even like Apple stock. It's got to be treasuries or, you know, other high rated bonds. And these convertible notes qualify for that. So these insurance companies, they get these and they don't really care so much about the interest. What's happening

is the value that they can trade those bonds on the secondary market for. If it's a treasury, you might get a couple extra cents on a good day, and at worst, it trades whatever to par. But these microstrategy bonds, some of them are trading 4 or 5x above par on the secondary market. So it expands the value of their general treasury and allows them to underwrite more insurance policies. And those insurance policies are the cashflow. So it's, you know, they're not getting it on these notes, but they're able to underwrite so many more insurance policies that they are, uh, they're getting this cashflow in from those policies on the premiums. And that is actually, you know, helping them grow the company better than you know a treasury bond would i wish we could get access to some of that did you imagine somebody came knocking on your door excuse me do you want to i'll say a couple of billion dollars or percent for a few years fuck that's like that's it that really is just easy money just i'll buy bitcoin

i'll see you in a few years and then i'll sell maybe one or two bitcoin to pay everything off and see you later just like i uh i talk about i talk about this stuff with i think fundamentals from rock paper bitcoin i think he's been on here a couple times yeah but we talk about we talk a lot we're we're buddies and uh we talk about how how big he thinks bitcoin's going to save the insurance or that it can save the insurance uh industry and I think that we've kind of had discussions about this micro-strategies thing. If you want to take the most naive, like this is good for Bitcoin, this could never go wrong, there's no trade-offs, and just kind of look through that lens, this sort of what he's doing, maybe this is a new paradigm and maybe these uh convertible notes based you know these bonds that are built on like bitcoin uh through this you know this equity conversion

that you can build in a cash flowing company maybe that is the what fixes insurance and maybe everything's great in ai and the future is awesome yeah i don't it's not going to be that exactly. It's not going to be that rosy, but I don't think that the microstrategy thing is necessarily a nothing burger either, just destined to be a big bubble. I think it's somewhere in between there. Now, in terms of how the microstrategy is doing this, it's got to be in the eyes of a lot of other companies.

Like, for example, Microsoft. Two things going on with them. Number one, there's that proposal that some degen asked for them to look at the opportunity to buy Bitcoin. It's not to buy Bitcoin, but at least look at it. And that's going to be voted on by shareholders. But then also, from what I understand, Michael Saylor was invited to talk to Microsoft. He's got a three-minute spiel that he's going to talk to um microsoft he's got a three-minute spiel that he's going to talk so this is creating a lot of buzz somewhere and indeed this is yeah not some like mom and pop shop or microsoft

motherfucker this thing is huge and if you're looking at this then there may be a point in time and you know i mean next five years they may buy in. What happens at that point? Yeah. I think that a lot of people, you know, they call it like Elon Musk or the Microsoft CEO or Tim Apple. Yeah, Tim Apple. I like that name. Like, why don't you buy Bitcoin for your company's treasury? Warren Buffett, why don't you buy Bitcoin on your company's balance sheet? And I think that that, I think we're kind of at a point where that's not even going to be something you have to worry about because I think just the rest of the shareholders and board members are going to

see this and be like, all right, let's put some Bitcoin on the balance sheet. And the CEO, his opinion may not even matter, but I think we're going to see a lot more. I think we're at the point where probably this cycle, a lot of these companies like Microsoft end up doing this. They end up putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet or incorporating it in some fashion. But what Michael Saylor's doing is so, I think, at least in their mind and probably true still, is risky. It's extremely risky and it's unproven. It's going

to take quite a few more years and some of these bonds to mature and to see how the price, see if it's sustainable, see if it's, you know, he's this systems engineer, like that's got the whole thing running as efficiently as he seems to think it will be. and it's so to see like a microsoft or one of these massive companies any of them um try to maybe copycat that um strategy i think is very unlikely it's just way too risky right now for them and they're they're already one of the top companies why do they have to risk it but you will see smaller company i mean you see meta planet and there's i think another company that you know it's kind of they're trying to clone it um scientific because there's a ton this past week that announced right yeah and and i think that some of those are going to blow it's going to blow up in their face and

then they're going to not be able to pull it off but i think some of them might be able to pull it off um maybe at a much smaller scale but um we'll see um maybe maybe this it it evolves into something much bigger but um yeah i think it's a lot of people are watching it and you know if it's working it's like naia bukele in el salvador it's like all right this has been going good for a few years can this continue and it just it has to it takes time now for microsoft or anybody else that big guys to buy in there's no way they would even put like and and if they come talking best case scenario, they want to put up like a large portion on a sale. Like you're 100% right. That's just too risky for them.

I would be looking at, you know, out of all the liquid capital they have, maybe buy a tenth of a Bitcoin or a quarter, like something something really really small that really won't make a difference in the world but it has there's something to it it's a symbolic move just just to buy it and show that they hold it and they could go from i think that would be a huge thing it would make very little difference in terms of the price overall in terms of them buying but just the thought of it might move markets and i think that's where they would go it's it's hard to have their shareholders pissed off if they allocate 25 000 us dollars to buy a bitcoin like how how angry could you get i guess some people would but fuck them right but uh bukele and el salvador do you know if they're still buying corn because i remember they were saying they were going to buy one bitcoin a day. They announced it 1 November. It was last November or 2 November.

I can't remember. But do you know if they're still doing this? I don't know if – I'm not up to date on what they're officially saying. I don't think they've announced that they have stopped buying. I know that they've got their addresses publicly available. So I guess if you go to the el salvador website um you can get those addresses and you can look and you can see if it's been updating and what the um what their total is but yeah uh so i assume they still are maybe not right now at all-time highs who knows

maybe they're still doing it but um i think that i'm a lot of people look at el salvador and they may criticize it or laugh, you know, especially if you've been there about how few of the citizens are, um, are using it day to day or accepting it for transactions. Although there, you know, there are some, there's probably more now than there was a few years ago or, you know, last year, but, uh, it just showed, you know, But it's just a good example of you can use Bitcoin. It can improve your conditions of your life or of your community a lot without having to force everybody to use your favorite lightning wallet. So not everybody's going to be down to do it. But as long as they're still down for the cause and they appreciate the improvements,

I think it can work out. No, it's helped them out financially given what they purchased. And I think their average buy price is probably like in a 40 range, $40,000 range. So the unrealized gains is massive from that. But in terms of overall safety and everything, we can't really owe it to Bitcoin.

Bukele has done a good job at least cleaning up the riffraff over there and making it a lot better for the citizens and even people that are visiting over there i'm not sure if you visited before uh things got better but from what i understand um it was pretty bad before and you could test where it is now because you've been there 2000 2022 you said you were there so like you could say like it's been it's a nice place to visit like you could attest to that and it just seems like a great place to go like you could attest to that and it just seems like a great place to go but yeah who cares if bitcoin isn't being used on the masses it's

it's not really ready yet for that too lightning uh layer one isn't really you know for transacting lightning is spotty at best chivo wall it's terrible so there's a lot of that least to be designed they do they do one thing right they hold their own corn yeah i i yeah i that's a good point and you talk about the l2s and you know there's not a lot of people using it in the united states peer-to-peer either but i i've been thinking about that a lot lately and i just think that fiat and bitcoin you know we we consider them both money or whatever so it's like we kind of compare maybe apples to apples when it's not fair because there's such different things fiat and the way

fiat's supposed to be used and the way it's you interact with it you have it in banks and blah blah and just bitcoin there's just totally different things i think it's uh i think the way that we spend or just the way that we use bitcoin. Trying to compare it to be like, oh, it hasn't taken over as a money of exchange, medium of exchange, excuse me. It has, we don't spend it like we do to buy things on Amazon. I just, I don't know if comparing it

to those things makes sense. I think maybe it's, I think whatever's evolving is probably the better signal there i don't know i don't know to finish my thought there but yeah let's hear you so boom does this asking about the water you're drinking could you oh yeah that's uh that's the uh sparkling pample mousse of lacroix there you saying short Bitcoin because of that. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, I am. That's fine. I have stacked so many sats, and I've worked so hard.

Sometimes I deserve a sparkling water, I think. If you're not drinking rainwater, you're short Bitcoin. That's true. That's true. What's going on in Swan these days? Swan, things are going well um the uh they're gonna be i just found this out today so if you i know a lot of your listeners are probably huge fans of of swan podcast but they're gonna be a bunch of swan podcasts coming back hitting the market soon in 2025 so um they're

obviously i think people know about um the sw Swan mining thing and the lawsuit, which unfortunately, because I'm a member of Swan, I can't talk too much about the lawsuit. But everybody knows that it was a crazy headline and story. And so now the company's not trying to go public. they're still getting investment to continue. And they're growing and adding retirement products and focusing on the Swan Vault and some of its core products and just continuing to build, keep going. The mining thing was a setback,

but they're doing pretty good. If you guys went public, would you be living on the beach? If we went public, if everything went to went to plan yeah not anymore shit man hopefully for your sake it does go through so in terms of i mean i'm not sure if you could answer this because i don't know if you have the information but there must be a huge spike in demand for buying bitcoin given the prices going up trump oh yeah yeah swan i think is is uh had you know over 100 million in sales like in the past month i don't know if i'm supposed to say that or they're talking about well i don't know

it's good numbers right but but like it's just been a massive spike a massive spike and um there's been a lot of like just you just how Coinbase is always going down. Banks are always having to stop having relationships with Bitcoin companies and stuff in the United States. And that's still happening. And it's like trying to meet the insane amount of demand and deal with all of the complexities and just the market circumstances. It's been a wild month for me, I'll tell you that. Is Pacific Bitcoin, you think, going to become a reality again? Or to the best of your knowledge,

or maybe you can't share anything, you can't say pretty much about it. No, I think they want to. I think it probably depends on how big this bull market is and how much bitcoin grows and new bitcoiners come on come on this bull market um if it's really successful i think you'll probably see pacific bitcoin return pretty soon um so yeah so what makes you more bullish bitcoin hitting 100k soon or linda mcmahon getting part of the uh team? I think Linda McMahon. I think that

you got a bunch of people, Linda included, who know how to write a good storyline and make it happen. And I think that that's pretty much all reality is and government politics is anymore. It's like, who can come up with the best narrative, the best story and make people believe it and go along with it. And I think he's got a team that might, some people might look at it and think,

oh my God, this is quite a motley crew. But I think for better or for worse, regardless of your politics, it's going to be an interesting story that plays out the next few years. I think it's a funny story. I think it's actually really funny. I do, too. I love it. And it's ruffling a lot of people's feathers and fuck them. Like I say, like this is Trump's last kick at the can. He can't be reelected unless some laws change or whatever. or whatever right right do whatever the fuck you want to do man no i think i think i'm

actually pretty bullish on i think that he's still winning people over i think he's gonna everybody's doing the trump dance like all the nfl players people on tv and live broadcasts they do the trump dance john jones just knocked out stipe michic jumped out of the cage of the ufc to give rfk and we gave trump the um the belt but he had rfk and vivek and elon and it was like it was like just a bunch of it was just dudes being bros going to the fight having a good time and that is back the boys are back in town that's what i think uh it's going to be a fun year i think we're just getting started i think all this bullish momentum is going to spill over into bitcoin it's going to spill over into bitcoin conferences it's going to spill over into bitcoin culture and uh i think that

bitcoin is going to be it's going to be a lot of fun next year it's showing a lot of people that they've done it wrong for a forever in fact right like and people like shift and like that guy he's got to be just going fucking ape shit now because i haven't looked at the price of gold but last i checked last week it was going down while bitcoin was spiking and you figure a hard asset like gold that has the history behind it, it would continually go up as well, but it didn't. And he's always down playing Bitcoin and he's going nuts on micro strategy these days. Yeah.

Yeah. I, I think that, uh, it's going to be great, uh, to, uh,

I don't, I say this very tongue in cheek, but to have Bitcoiners in, in, in charge. Um, I, but I think we're just going to have bitcoiners in in charge um i but i think we're just gonna have i think we're gonna finally learn that because trump's got what world liberty financial he's got a shit coin there's definitely more trump i'm all in by the way yeah like right there's definitely more stuff

like that coming there it's gonna be a it's it's to be an explosion of things like world liberty financial it's going to be like old boomer crypto that's like kind of sort of like regulated what you know like stocks or something but it's not going to be like the solana dgen meme coins those are going to go away and this is going to be this weird new corporate corrupt crypto but we're just going to deal with shit coins it's like bitcoin's going to just they're they're going to pump it pump it like crazy and we're just going to be like all right you can have like we're just going to look the other way about shit coins from now on you're gambling so you never bought any of those trump nfts then it sounds like you weren't one of

the early adopters for one because he did a lot of those releases didn't he oh yeah that's right i mean he did he did i mean we should have seen it coming i guess but the president of the united states yeah he's gonna have his own shit coin his own nfts he's gonna i mean he's gonna probably have like a hardware wallet with like the trump branding like yeah monetize the fuck out of it yeah like the vaults you know what i mean yeah it's not truly a bull market until we see the trailer park boys invited to the inauguration speech that would be that would be great yeah okay we have to do a writing campaign to get this thing done because i'm sure there's gonna be a lot of prominent people but we gotta get those three boys on stage and maybe throw in jayrock too i mean if hall yeah hulk hogan will

be there why not ricky and julia yeah yeah fuck that was it i marked out when he uh ripped off his shirt at the uh the event i forget where it was oh yeah yeah to go back marked out when he uh ripped off his shirt at the uh the event i forget where it was oh man yeah to go back to the ufc though it was just amazing it was like so it was rfk trump uh tulsi kid rock uh uh vivette i mean it was the boys it was the straight up boys dana white and everybody was just roaring, dude. Like I think it was, it was like, um, it was like, it was like a, like Caesar going into the Coliseum and, uh, everybody's cheering. And it's like, somebody else made this point. I'm stealing the story by the way. But, uh, and it's like, it was like Trump showing off. He's flexing. He's like, these people are cheering for us.

These people are cheering for the boys. They're not cheering for the Republican party. They're not cheering for the Republicans in Congress or whatever. People are cheering for the boys. They're not cheering for the Republican Party. They're not cheering for the Republicans in Congress or whatever. They're cheering for the boys. And make sure you recognize. Because I think that's what the theme is going to be next year. Bubbles for SEC commission. I love that. That would be a great choice.

Everything would be approved, I think, especially anything that has cats on it or associated with cats. Bring it on. Yeah, Gensler. This is maybe one of his last few days at the job and a lot of people are like cheering this but really was he all that bad i mean he did kind of hold back the etf for some time but maybe that was a good thing that it was held back and i'll explain why if he if this was approved on a much earlier time, especially closer to the implosion of FTX, BlockFi, Celsius, Terraluna, I think the impact may not have been as strong as it is right now.

Give it some time, let everything settle, and then have the ETF become a reality. I'm not saying that was his plan all along. I think that just holding it off and waiting, in terms of the price of Bitcoin, I think it wasn't too bad. It wasn't too bad a strategy at all. So was he that bad for Bitcoin? I don't know. Preston Pysh

05,004 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he didn't really go hard after Bitcoin. I mean, he went after the reason people don't like him. He went after banks or there was just policies that made it more difficult to be in the Bitcoin business and connected to the banking system. But if you're using Bitcoin how you should be using it, you shouldn't give a shit if Bitcoin's being integrated better into the banking system. That's not what it's for.

So Gary Gensler did not go after, the SEC at least, did not go after the protocol. They went after banks, not Bitcoin. Now, the government has gone after like Samurai, but that wasn't Gensler. That was law enforcement agencies for different reasons. Strictly speaking to Gary Gensler, he never went after Bitcoin at all, I would say. So from that perspective, yeah, I don't know. And he did not hurt Bitcoin, I'll tell you that. He indirectly went after XRP, for instance, with going to Ripple lawsuit.

But to be honest, if you need intervention in that respect, it's really not needed. Let the market itself play it out. And they probably are securities, but I wasn't sharing them getting ripped by, or at least a action against them. But I didn't give a shit if, if they did it, did or didn't just personally,

I think over time, shit like that, it's just going to be washed away because people will realize that stuff doesn't have any, there's no fundamentals behind it. There's just nothing really there. So just money won't flow into those projects over time right so i mean whatever i know he was anti-shitcoin at least

based on that but whatever i'm just i'm so neutral on gensler and i'm curious to see who's going to be coming up next and if it is going to be somebody that's pro bitcoin or more pro bitcoin was it due to the price you know what i don't really care i'm kind of hoping that it stays suppressed it's like i buy more i need to buy as much more before i it's time for me to retire i know i'm kind of selfish in this regard but i'm not happy with my my bitcoin stack i don't think i'll ever be but you know right that's that's that's the problem it's it's it's great when the value of what you already own goes up but you want more you always want to get more so it's it's it's great when the value of what you already own goes up but you want more you always want to get more so it's tough it's uh yeah it's sometimes it's sometimes the bull

markets are harder than the bear markets and some you know depending on the day yeah so then i think that's we've done this for 46 almost 47 minutes appreciate you coming on any last words anything like what's what's up with dan these next few days next few weeks with high hash rate now being on hiatus at least temporarily maybe permanently yeah i don't know um i think that as soon as as soon as we know more uh we'll definitely let you know but otherwise you know if you, if you want to reach out, you can still find me on Twitter. I haven't been on Twitter quite as much, but it's the bull market. It's more fun.

I'll be back more. So yeah, but yeah, appreciate you having me come on. Love to do it anytime. We may have you more on frequently, especially as you have a little bit more time. But also, if there's anything that's new from Swan that you want to talk and get off your chest, feel free to bring it, especially if it's not confidential information.

You're more than welcome to come on. I don't want to put you in the position that you get in trouble, but yeah, we'll be happy to talk about it. You guys are Bitcoin only. One last question with Swan I have. You have both custodial and non-custodial right so when you buy you could just simply take off right away is that the case yeah yeah swan uh i don't think there's

there's no other places that i'm aware of that still have completely free unlimited withdrawals so you can once you buy your bitcoin you can withdraw it right away there's also the swan vault which is it's very it's similar to unchained capital um so you've got uh your multiple you know your two out of three multi-sig and you have the opportunity you know the option to um use a swan service if you ever need that third signature um but it's it's used through the specter wallet so if you remember specter wallet that's what it's built on uh use the blockstream jade is the signing keys i think more support is coming to the different keys. And then finally, Bitcoin IRAs, so they have retirement accounts. A lot of people who don't want to

take an early distribution on their retirement account. so you can roll that in and just buy Bitcoin with it. That is not withdrawalable to self-custody, unfortunately. But like I said, next year, there's going to be a lot of changes in regulations and rules. So I would look for those announcements that if you're looking for a retirement IRA. You guys are the one that's making that not happen. It's just that's the way the system is set up. And you have to adhere with the rules.

So yeah. Okay, that's it. Again, thank you for coming on, Dan. And we'll be back at this again on Monday. And on Monday, it will be myself and Mark from EZDNest. So with that, take care and adios.