The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP - Jaime Garcia, A Latin American Country Is Winning

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES This week we welcome Jaime Garcia (https://twitter.com/JaimeWGarcia) for another interview. Jaime has been on the CBP a number of times, and we look forward to getting his thoughts and insight into the President Nayib Bukele's successful re-election campaign. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: ⁠ ⁠⁠https://discord.gg/ESRCZWpb ⁠⁠ A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠⁠EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠⁠The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Ladies and gentlemen, friends and enemies, welcome to yet another edition of the Mighty CBP, all part of the CBP Media Network. I'm Len. Today, I'm going to be talking to Jaime Garcia, and we've talked to Jaime quite a bit in the past, and we'll get some updates what's going on post-election in El Salvador and figure out what's going on since then. Because there has been a lot of talk, especially with Bitcoin. They moved some Bitcoin not too long ago. We'll get into that momentarily.

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Use our promo code. And if you do that, fund your account and provide the necessary information. 21 bucks will be added to your account. No questions asked. So with that being said, I want to bring in the man of the hour. Jaime, how are you, buddy? Hey, Len. Doing well.

Thank you for the invite. Thanks for coming on. Because this, I think we talked to you a little bit over a month ago. And like I said at that time, I'm going to tell everybody, the carpet, the red carpet is always rolled out to you. Anytime you want to come on the show, Jaime, you're more than welcome to come on the show. You've been a very good friend to us, and you've been providing us some really good information, what's going on in El Salvador and other parts of the world, too. So I want to just thank you so much for all the service you've done for us here. And I'm giving you some, I'm blowing you here, essentially. So thank you very much for coming on the show once again.

It's been a few months since you've been here. I took a look. I think it's November 1st, 2023. So four months-ish, five months-ish since you've been here. What's gone on in your life since then? Anything new since November 1st? I'd like to get an update with you. On a personal level, just recovering from a few days of sickness. just this spring brings uh brings all kinds of sickness and uh it's basically um a a combination of allergies and germs and flu and everything and i i guess you know my my only excuse to to not being well prepared with a a big coiner uh immune system is that i haven't been eaten enough steak uh an airbnb that didn't have cast iron skillets. So, you know, unfortunately, I was cooking one of those Teflon ones.

Not enough, you know, run-free grain, non-grain-fed chicken eggs, you know, all that. I've been eating vegetables. Oh, no., all that. I've been eating vegetables. Oh, no. Not enough sunlight, vitamin D, probably too much canola oil, all this, all the jazz, right? So, but I'm on the mend. So this is a good way to get back on to things. But on a personal level, super busy too. Like I just, you know, I, as you know, I don't do this for, for a living. It's just, just passion of mine on the side. And so my family's, my passion and my kids are quite involved in, in athletic activities. And right now the one kids like been traveling all over canada and um in the u.s uh doing some competitive stuff and so we've been just following her over so i i got a stack of

uh telegram and emails to get back to on on everything under the sun but uh so giving asking everybody to give me grace and um from bitcoin, there's been a lot of stuff going on. Lots of stuff. I mean, like both on the technical level and the cultural level, as well as things developing in El Salvador. There's lots of lots of exciting stuff like the price action and all the things that people get, you know, talk about. I don't really pay too much attention, but, you know, some of the more underground stuff, and especially when it comes to El Salvador, I try to keep my hand in the pulse. So, yeah, like there's lots of things to talk about.

And, you know, I'm happy to, you know, provide some context. I don't always have the answers, but wherever you want to start, Len. Well, I want to do a little bit more personally. still playing soccer oh yeah yeah and i think that's why i truth be told i think that's probably why i got sick because um i've been uh i've been playing a lot of soccer lately and uh although i haven't gotten injured i think that just uh playing like games back to back and just uh running myself running running myself silly like being in a couple different teams guest playing for other teams like that eventually sort of takes a toll on you and i think my circadian rhythm's a little

bit off because sometimes we got to play like late at night and so and uh i'm i'm not a i'm not a fancy player i'll i'll let you know that i'm one of those dudes that never scores but i uh i do all the um all the all the work behind the scenes cut some passing lanes and you know just make sure that everything's neat and out in defense and and redistribute the ball to the ones who can't up top so yeah we do indoor yeah you need a um a workhorse back there just to clean up the mess and yeah you're right that's me that's me uh and pierlo like if you know who he is pierlo was the guy that that he he played a little bit defensively but he was always feeding the ball out yeah so he needed something like that to make the initial pass out,

to direct the play, and then from there it could go. But indoor is something special because it's a faster game. It is. And I've played it before, and wow, it's just incredibly fast. Is it five plus a goalie against five plus a goalie? Yeah, you've got to constantly scan. You've got to constantly scan because if you receive the ball and you don't know where you're going, like somebody's on you right away. And like I play on, I'm on a Legends League now. So Legends is 45 plus. So Legends and I'm also on Masters, just 35 plus and regular league and uh so i've been playing all three leagues uh but um but like when you play uh down in the regular league you get some like teenagers or some 20 some year olds who are super

fit you know like you gotta play like i you know even like five years ago i would still try to keep up with them now i just gotta use the the wisdom that's good here you are progressing to the next level have you been traveling have you been back to el salvador in the past two months or no no not el salvador i just but just all around western canada with my daughter so yeah that's awesome okay now I want to dive deep a little bit into something more Bitcoin related, actually more El Salvador related. Since you last were here, El Salvador had a general election and they elected a new or reelected a president, I guess. I'm not sure exactly how to call it because he stepped down. Maybe you can give some insight as

to essentially what has happened in the election, what's happened post-election. Because as an outsider for me, it looks like it was status quo. He ran, he won, and then he just continued working in the office, which he vacated not too long before that. So it seems like it was status quo, but has anything really changed in the grand scheme of things? So, yeah, I would say that, you know, the big change is it gives El Salvador continuity and stability for the Bitcoin project in a big way. So the elections took place on February 4th of this year.

They were observed by several international bodies, including the Organization of American States, the OAS, the UN, and the European Union. Their reports were that there were some irregularities with the election however these irregularities weren't in the form of any fraud or undo or untowards sort of uh scheming it was more like wi-fi wasn't available they ran out of you know like supplies there was miscommunication just mundane stuff, the same kind of irregularities that like you would find in, you know, like any other healthy democracy, right? I'm not saying there was like a healthy democracy, but you know, in terms of this election, like I think that it was widely viewed as open and fair. One of the things that I would say is that the ruling party, New Ideas, Naibu Kela's party, had a great advantage. They garner more donations.

They had a huge machinery. One of the criticisms was that the opposition parties were non-existent in terms of advertising. The typical campaign that you see like months in advance didn't take place because first of all new ideas didn't have anything to to respond to in terms of either like counter campaigns or anything like that and no ideas which party are they belonging to the governing or the opposition party uh it's the governing party naibu kill is uh party so so there was like like an odd lack of campaigning by all parties and um and so

so sometimes that was viewed kind of like as weird but just because like in el salvador campaigns are huge it's like like there's party. There's a lot more money going around. One of the things that didn't happen this year was that the money wasn't because amazingly, just like in Canada, parties get government funded. But El Salvador didn't advance those funds because they're based on a vote. And so the Ministry of the Treasury gave the money to the parties after the votes were garnered, not in advance. And so they couldn't use those funds to campaign. And so but other than that, you know, they were pretty open and free from those organizations' perspectives. And Naebu Kelly won over 80% of the vote, which gave him a huge mandate,

a huge stamp of approval from the Salvadorian electorate to continue to do what he's been doing. New ideas, elected more deputies in the assembly than they had before in terms of like the proportion of the seats. And why I say that is because actually there was a law that was passed that reduced the number of seats in the assembly from 84 to 60. And so they garnered over 80% of the seats. So the opposition was decimated, absolutely decimated. And right now, New Ideas has the ability to pass laws without any negotiation, even with their allies. They decimated their allies even before they had another party that they had to sort of negotiate.

Now they don't have to do that. The flip side of the coin is that now there's huge, huge expectations around that. And I think that in a way that they can't really even say and point fingers to the opposition, I think that this second mandate really gives Bukele and his government and the New Idea parties a huge responsibility to deliver and what the population has been asking for. Now that it's vastly agreed and widely agreed that the issue of security has been addressed, that the economy is the one thing that people want improved. They want jobs. They want opportunities. They want, you know, they want Salvador that people want improved. They want jobs. They want opportunities. They want, you know, they want Salvadoran people to prosper.

And they really want the promise of a prosperous El Salvador. And if Bitcoin is going to be a gateway to improve the economy, they want to feel that, right? But of course, you you know this is kind of where where i tell my family and friends in el salvador that it's really not ultimately up to the government to fix things there has to be a mindset shift in everybody's um in everybody's mind you know that that's what they want to do and so um you know it's it's a mindset that has been changing in el salvador but it has to take place at a mass level

not just in a few sectors of of the population right and so um and so yeah so we'll we'll see what happens here um i think that think that in terms of governance and just public policy, I wouldn't say that New Ideas and Bukele have a blank check, but they definitely have a huge mandate and if they don't deliver, if things

don't improve in terms of the economy, which is like people want to keep the security issue at the forefront and not relinquish one inch from that. But now the expectation is that El Salvador will improve in terms of the economy. There's a lot that you've said there and we'll be unpacking a few different nuggets you said there.

But initially, I want to talk about the election process itself. And the fact from the outside, I'm not exactly sure how long it took from when they opened the polls to when they closed it and when they called the election, but it seemed like it was rather quick. It didn't draw out for days, weeks, or months. It was just, you know, they counted the ballots, made made a decision and went from there so you were talking about healthy democracies there are some out there maybe looking down south where it takes them a heck of a long time just to figure out who's won a particular election particular election now granted the size of the election is different the population of salvador

is somewhere in the vicinity of six and a half, maybe seven million people at that. And the United States is what, 350 million people. So there's a huge difference between I guess I get it. But still, it's a copy paste situation. So how long did it take for to come out with a decision with the El Salvador election? And based on that, was there any criticism on how the process was run or anything? Or did it just seem like I know you mentioned a few things like there was some outages, Wi-Fi and stuff. But generally, was everybody happy with the process? Not the opposition to Bukele, obviously. And, you know, but the electoral candidate actually is set years in advance.

Like, for example, for the next legislative and presidential election, we already know when that's going to be and when candidates are supposed to register, et cetera, et cetera. And so when we think about that, it's been sort of like on the go for a long time like uh candidates had to been registered by last october and so like you know if you don't know that that's all that all that's happening it seems like it happened rather quick but to me it's taken a long long time because I've been sort of monitoring all that. But it actually, but that was one of the criticisms by a lot of these international observers is that it took too long, right? So what happens is like similar to what happens here in Canada, the scrutineers count the votes. Every party has a scrutineer or an observer, as well as the official elections body has an observer and basically a supervisor that signs all the declarations and the acts, they call them, right?

And that happened relatively quickly is where the irregularities came is that trans in inputting that manual process into the that into the entries. And so, but all that doesn't really matter because the manual acts were signed. There were witness, there were notaries present, everybody agreed, observers looked at them and then, yeah, like all the manual stuff was available, right? So, and so it took about a week, a week and a half for the results to be official but it was known that that evening that um you know what was happening that they were uh that bukele was the overwhelming winner that uh um new ideas was going to be uh having a an absolute majority it's a matter of how much they're going to yeah yeah basically basically and the more that they and they went through a manual process of counting one by one in front of like everybody and and the more they counted

in front of everybody it was funny because like uh the the more scrutiny came like that was had in the whole process the more like seats the opposition to bukele lost and they're like oh there's got to be something wrong and like it was just comical and um you know um i i sort of muse that like um and this is true kind of for a lot of things. It's like when you don't like the results of something, you often blame the process, right? Yes. But seldom do people, whatever it is, but in this case, the election, have like a kind of like a self-critical moment where they look at what they've done and say, you know, in their case, well, have we offered any alternatives, any viable alternatives that

people can get inspired by that people can stand behind that we can actually, that we have a plan that we can concretely deliver? And the answer was no, like their whole like you know and i was like you know i'm just gonna like park my biases and look at everything objectively and look at you know some of them didn't even have platforms and so i just thought well we you have to offer something to the population that they're that they're inspired by. And they didn't offer anything that they were inspired by. In fact, most of them were saying, well, you know, all those things that worked in terms of cleaning up the crime, we're going to stop them because we're putting like innocent

people in jail the reality is that like you know it's not widely a widely held view that that's what's happened and in in fact there's interviews in local television of of mothers of prisoners who say i i love my son he's he you know he is my son but damn it he, you know, he is my son, but damn it. He belongs in jail. Don't let that guy out. Yeah. You know, cause yeah, he was terrorizing neighborhood and, you know, I live in peace now, you know? And, um, and so that, that was really common. And, um, you know, there's people that, um, and everybody had been affected by crime, myself included, you know. So so I think that when when these alternative or so-called alternatives to to Bukele, you know, proposed different policies that sounded like they were going to ease up on security, it just pushed them further away.

And so I think that, you know, what's really happened here is that people want to continue and like they've doubled down on the continuation of where bukele is taking the country in terms of international criticism i'm going to use that term i know the bbc i they there was a reporter that was talking to president bukele and he was asking him about this very topic about the fact that they are jailing potentially innocent people and he had a very good reply to this journalist and he was asking him about this very topic, about the fact that they are jailing potentially innocent people. And he had a very good reply to this journalist.

And he was saying, well, police in our country, the same as it is your country back in the UK, they're not perfect. They are going to jail people. Sometimes they'll make mistakes and they'll jail people that are innocent. That's why the court system exists, is to prove who is innocent and who is guilty. And he did a masterful job of proving that this criticism, yes, there may be some merit to it, but the reality is police, you know, based on the information that's given to them, and they're going to act upon it. They're human beings. They don't have all the information. Even sometimes courts, too, will make decisions that are not, they could be bad decisions in the end, not truthful.

But hopefully they fix everything. That's just the reality of it. So I just want to say Bukele, he's been able to parry a lot of these criticisms, even internationally. And it was good to see him to take that BBC reporter to task. I'm not sure if you saw that. I did, yeah. to task i'm not sure if you saw that uh i did yeah uh the simplicity of how he's able to disarm these erroneous arguments uh or rhetorical questions because they're not questions at all it's just amazing like all i can think of is like uh like a jujitsu master just like doing like

you know somebody's coming in with all these like fancy moves and just immobilizing them with a couple of like holds and then tapping out, right? Because it's like, it's just, he makes his questions or arguments look ridiculous just by the sheer examples and the simplicity of how he conveys and communicates. He's an excellent communicator, right?

Yes, he is. And I think that he's quite talented. And I think this is why people fear him too, like him using those talents in a way that would harm. But I think, you know what, it's not just BBC reporters. Many Bitcoiners who at first may have been like really enthusiastic about what was happening are now like uh hating on el salvador for some reason and it's like okay like that's fine but you know like at the same time it's like what's to fear about el salvador it's just a dinky little country who nobody even

heard of up until this thing happened and like just let them do whatever and see what happens in 10 years and if you know if you still don't like it that's it you don't that's the thing is you don't have to buy el salvador yeah it. Look, there isn't, from my vantage point, there doesn't seem to be rampant human rights abuses going on over there, at least to me. Maybe one person or a few people who got are jailed, they may claim that, but the reality is the crime situation, the security,

has improved tremendously in the past few years. And I guess a lot of it has to do with kaylee's policies that he's put in place so the people that have criticism the bitcoiners too i wonder how much skin they have in the game you and your family they come from there so and you still have family there you travel there periodically so you have a like a much stronger connection to el salvador than i would say 999% of the people out there that are critical or even supportive of it. They may be supportive, but really the reality is they don't have a clue what's going on in comparison to somebody like you. So that's the one thing I'll take away from this.

When you speak about what's going on there i'm taking that almost as gospel because let's be honest i i have no other connection to that actually i got a few other connections yeah but um really i take your information much more at face value sorry much more uh like as per gospel as per somebody else i'll take it at face value that's just you know randomly create criticism about el salvador site essentially say screw those people, I would just say, try not to let them get to you. I try to be balanced about it, right? Because like, and acknowledge

that there is some potential problems. And the one thing that I keep hearing from a lot of Bitcoiners who are often view or fancy themselves as libert you know, libertarians. And I often question if they even know what that means, you know, because often they don't even know what classical liberalism is or they don't know who John Locke is or, you know, or Adam Smith. You know, the fathers of classical liberalism, right? And they often throw quotes without really understanding the context. And one of the ones that they throw around is a Benjamin Franklin one.

And I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it's something along the lines that, you know, those who give up their liberty to obtain a little security deserve neither liberty nor security. Right. And, yep, Benjamin Franklin said that. But let's maybe explore in the context of why Benjamin Franklin would say that? And that was at a time when him and the 13 colonies were still negotiating some sort of independence from the crown. If you want to go at it alone, you know, you're going to, what are you going to do when your belligerent force, when belligerent people try to take over and overthrow, you know, your governments and, you know, don't you want the British army there? And the reality is that for Benjamin Franklin, that was the context. It wasn't the context that El Salvador faces. And from Franklin's perspective, I would argue, no, you don't want to give up any of your freedom, your liberty, because they had food security, they had infrastructure, they had governance, they had an army, they had armament, they had all of the basic elements of a nation state, and they had absolutely no need for a colonizing power to look after them. So it's just ridiculous to even use that quote in the context of el salvador right but you know it's it's a very click and baby kind of quote and

and everybody gets excited and it's like yeah salvadorans are stupid they don't know what they're doing so but anyway well you mentioned also people are hoping that there'll be an improvement on the economy especially especially after this election. It's going to be one of the key points that Bukele and team are going to have to work on. Now, I'm looking at El Salvador. It's a very relatively small country. And I would imagine their economy internally can only be pushed so far. They're going to have to rely on a lot of external factors, namely their neighbors,

Guatemala, Honduras, and so forth, and even further, Mexico and the United States. The United States, that's the currency which they use. So as the U.S. dollar goes, I want to imagine as goes the El Salvador economy as well.

So really, I'm just asking a long-winded question is how impactful can they do domestically to improve their economy or is are they like really really um reliant on external forces to help them move forward or do they have an opportunity to improve things internally to really improve their economy okay so it's it's difficult because el salvador in a rebuilding phase. It's one of the most densely populated countries in Central America. And when we look at GDP alone, you know, it's got one of the lowest GDPs in Central America. Of course, it's the smallest country. But it has many, many good things going for it growth rate is high for gdp i'm looking right now 10 annual rate in 2021 i'm not sure anything since then so that at least is very positive right i mean a lot of people sort of argue it as kind of like the bounce back from

covid as well but um um you know uh we can split hairs over that. I think that the reality is that El Salvador's heavily mountainous. A lot of people don't think that because they only view the beach, the coastline. But it's heavily mounted, like a mountain range. Not a lot of prairies or plateaus for food cultivation, which is a huge problem for El Salvador because it actually does not have the ability to feed its own population. It imports most of its vegetables from Guatemala. It imports most of its beef. When people enjoy nice Salvadorian grass fed beef is actually Nicaraguan grass fed beef. So it has to import a lot. It has to import its actually it export its energy this year, but it often imports energy. It imports a lot of LNG.

It imports many, many things. It's a net importer. It's not an exporter. And that's why it heavily relies on remittances. So El Salvador needs to change that. And, you know, what I understand is that the current Salvadoran government has taken the Singapore model as the one that it wants to follow. Singapore is a small, well, it's basically a city state and it can't produce much. So what is it going to compete on? Well, it's going to

compete on its services. In Singapore specifically, it's financial services. And you look at the transformation of Singapore over the five decades, it's been formidable, right? And so that's what it wants to do. But how can we compete on traditional financial services when everything really is run out of Wall Street or, you know, probably Panama, right? So then this is where Bitcoin becomes important.

It wants to be the financial center of the future based on Bitcoin. And it wants to really focus on IT and attracting IT companies. It's passed laws so that IT companies who set up shop in El Salvador are favorably taxed or have a grace period in terms of taxes, right? So it's built in a lot of incentives for a service-based, tech-based economy to set up shop in El Salvador. But, you know, Bukele knew that it couldn't really do, even if it did all of that and there was no security, there was really no point in doing it. That's why, you know, they addressed the security issue first.

And now that that's in place, they're developing a lot of these things. And it's the same thing with the tourism, you know, like tourism, sometimes one of the things that I hear is like El Salvador is great, but the hotels suck. That's true, because, you know, like, we just don't have the infrastructure. Actually, a lot of people like that is the charm of being unspoiled yet, you know, and not having these like very Americanized, very sort of like sanitized kind of areas that, you know, don't look any different from any other American resort, right? So there's still a bit of that charm left, but all that is going to modernize. It's going to probably look more like what people are used to over the next two three years people have a small window to enjoy el salvador as is unspoiled so enjoy it while it's here it may disappear and it may become more americanized which uh quite probably yeah as as Probably, yeah. It's a charm. As it tries to seek more tourists, right? You mentioned something.

You were comparing this whole process maybe to similar to how Singapore has it. Now, Singapore, they are very strict in their laws in terms of what you're able to import and do over in singapore uh so in terms of that i can see there's some similarities you know the way things are getting more strict in terms of the security in el salvador and trying to rein in all the security problems they had similarity singapore they have very little cry because they have a diligent and militant force out there just to you know but do you remember when there was a canadian that like spat out gum and then he got like caned it was an american so it was an american yeah michael something it was under the clinton administration yeah and they were they were talking to the people

in el salvador to try to uh eliminate that the caning i think they managed to reduce the caning i don't know what the number was supposed to be, but they reduced it. But still, it was painful. Oh, no, I think he got it, though. They're like, yeah, okay, we'll do one less. Yeah, it was double-digit numbers from what I understand. But yeah, I think he did some graffiti in a car or something. It's something really bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I didn't know. I was... Yeah, this was the mid-'90s. So yeah, that was, you you know that's singapore actually i have other stories i could talk about it because i have a now since deceased friend who lived there and he would tell me stories about how it was in singapore but i don't want to make this a singapore uh discussion but one thing they do have over there is mandatory military service did that's also apply to el salvador do you know it's voluntary it's

voluntary military service and in fact it's it's a career for for for people you know there's there's uh different streams that people can go into like they can go into the navy the army um the air force and um and uh it it's it's it's a career now whereas before it was it really wasn't so no that's that's cool i know like other countries i know italy has the mandatory service and Whatever, I'm not going to go too much into that. No, I don't think that that is in the cards. I think that we still have a lot of open wounds from the Civil War and where they would forcibly can recruit people. And it never like that.

I don't think they want to go there. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Now, in terms of Bukele running again, is there any opportunity for him to run again? Or is this his last opportunity? Or I don't know.

I'm curious. Are the laws restrictive? Are they going to change? I want to hear your thoughts about this. As they stand right now, he cannot. In fact, the Supreme Court and the ruling that opened the door for him to run for a second term was quite prescriptive in saying that he cannot run for, for a third time. So this is it. This is it.

Unless, unless they change the constitution. I don't, not going to hold my breath about that. Yeah. You know, I think it's going to happen. Very good.

Okay. I didn't want to go there. If things are going really well and people are supportive of his policies, why wouldn't they be supportive of that type of temporary change to give an opportunity to run again or even in perpetuity? I don't know. Because every Latin American country is exactly the same and it's never worked in any other Latin American country. So why would it work in El Salvador? Maybe, maybe not right i don't know i don't know that's what i keep hearing it's like you guys you're all you're all just different kinds of mexicans and it's never worked for you okay anyways bitcoin mining over there you were talking about electricity um and you're you were saying that that for the first time you were starting to export electricity, but still you guys are, when I say you guys, El Salvador is an importer of electricity, right? So in terms of Bitcoin mining, that's probably still not going to be in the cards because it takes an extraordinary amount of energy to do it. And if you're exporting, sorry, importing energy, it doesn't make any sense to do bitcoin mining but i know that they were going to do that geothermal um thing where they're going to use the

the geothermal energy from the volcanoes to try to use that for bitcoin mining but what's the status of this i haven't heard much yeah bitcoin mining operation so a new hydroelectric plant actually came online about um uh just earlier this year. And it's, man, I don't know how many megawatts it's producing, but it's quite a bit. And that actually allowed, there was a schedule raise in electricity and the electricity bill and that and that plant coming online actually allowed

the race not to go up in fact people got a rebate or a bit of a discount because of that and that allows that excess capacity to be exported to Honduras, Nicaragua, and Guatemala when needed. So from my understanding, any access capacity can be easily diverted to things like Bitcoin mining. I know that in Berlin right now, they have some bitcoin mining that is happening and if you um remember last week uh actually almost two weeks ago bukele announced that there was um the transfer of all the bitcoin well not all but a large chunk and i quote bukele in his tweet of their bitcoin reserves into cold storage and it was a lot more than the claim dca that they were doing and in earlier tweets he has said that that that is actually because of my mining capacity as well as their passport programs and government services so there's um so they have been mining and they have been obtaining Bitcoin from mining.

And so they actually had almost double of what was estimated that they would have, probably a little bit more than double of what they estimated. And they're still DCA-ing. One per day, right? Yeah, yeah. The Bitcoin wallet is actually public

and people can see it. There's a lot of shit coins going in there too. A lot of ordinals. 546 Satoshis. Transactions. Lots of dust. Lots of dust going in there. Oh, man.

Lots of DRC20s. What are your thoughts of this whole new initiative for them to as they claim transfer a big chunk of their bitcoin to a wallet they say this is a physical wallet within their national territory so to me that seems like a good thing because it is one extra layer of preventing them from getting run is, you know, leaving it into somebody else to deal with it. You never know what's going to happen because they made some enemies along the way here too. Right.

So, yeah. What are your thoughts on them now, you know, keeping this domestic and in their national territory? Yeah. I would say that over the last eight months, the,

the relationship between el salvador and and and the united states has been a lot more uh reconciliatory uh they have good relations with china and they have good relations with russia so i would say that right now their foreign relations is actually at an all-time high, considering everybody, you know, and not being subjugated at the same time. To our knowledge, I think everybody is somewhat subjugated, including Canada. So I think that that, but I think think and I wrote a little article on that. I think that it was a wise move from what I know.

And if somebody is able to prove me wrong, I will happily correct my my articles and my statements. The custodian was BitGo, which is an American-based company. And so once they transferred it, my understanding is that, you know, if BitGo was the custodian, then those funds would be transferred over to the cold storage wallet that is presumably in El Salvador. That's amazing now that they have control,

total control over it. Hopefully that they're using some sort of multi-sig and passphrase or something just to provide extra layers of security in terms of just one person getting access to that wallet and taking it all because that's a large sum of funds that, like you said, it was much larger than what we were anticipating. And it was all due to the partially to mining and the passport,

the residency services that they're offering up for Bitcoin investment in El Salvador. The nature of that address and my understanding of how that's composed, it seems to be a multi-sig wallet. But I, you know, like I think that there are some very practical reasons why Elador and any other nation state that's collecting bitcoin or it's a you know it's probably not going to be completely transparent there's think some um i think that it's probably wise to keep like an element of opacity around how their entire thing is constructed, right? Yeah. I think they'll be able to ensure,

instill confidence that they'll able to. Look, they're the first nation. Yeah. And right now, the only nation that has Bitcoin as a currency. Digital Fort Knox. Fort Knox is a funny one. Do they actually have the gold is the question. I'd love to know.

I don't know when the last time it was audited, but if you go to the address right now, you can see how many Bitcoin El Salvador has. Yeah, exactly. Or at least how many they have. So I'm going to field a question from the audience here. Now, BalzyGault is asking, which country is most likely to follow El Salvador's lead and adopt Bitcoin?

Just throwing this out there, if you have any idea who you think is next to do what El Salvador is doing. As it is, I don't think people are going to follow the Salvadoran recipe, but I think the way that Argentina is going about it is okay, because they're basically saying you can transact in any currency and they don't have to actually make it legal tender. One of the things about making legal tender in El Salvador that benefits Guatemala in particular is that they have a law that, you know, people in Guatemala can transact in any legal tender currency as long as the accepting party is

open to accepting that legal currency. And they would be because if they're accepting it. Yeah. Yeah. So so I would say that as a template, I'm not sure anybody is going to follow it because just like Bitcoin had success because it was off the radar of anybody and it got to a point where they couldn't stop it. I think that if the next country was to sort of follow the same footsteps as El Salvadorador it would be like sideline right away i mean like i think honduras even mused with the idea and then i think they they got taken to the side and they they were probably scolded at least that's that's the vibe that i get from what what was what

happened so so i think people have to like be creative about creative about how they're going to do it. And I think Argentina has a pretty good recipe. And I think Francis Pulio actually said just remove capital controls around Bitcoin. And I think that that kind of gets you most of the way there. Yeah, agreed. Actually, it gets you there. That's all we want is the ability to transact with it without dealing with the headaches of, uh, dealing with our tax people here, CRA and other places, IRS or whatever. Jaime, do you have some time for a few more questions or are you up?

I guess number one is, uh, recently we had a, an announcement from El Salvador that they have eliminated income tax. Uh, 30% taxes were on investment for overseas and also for remittances. So I didn't know remittances were imposed at 30% tax and that's now gone? So it's just a transfer of money over certain amounts. It's kind of like when you go to the States and you have to declare like, you know, I'm coming here and I swear I don't have more than $10,000 on me. Right. And if you say that you have more than $10,000 on you, then you got to pay taxes on that. Yeah. So now that that's gone and you can go to the country and you don't have to pay taxes on if you if you're bringing more more than that amount or any. Well, it's it's completely gone.

You don't you can bring as much money to the country. And I never really understood that, because if you're bringing money to the country, you're probably going to spend it there. So it's probably going to stay there. So what would you want to like tax it? You know, because they're going to spend it and people are going to like get like the benefit of that right so then you just create a you're creating a decent incentive or like of of not bringing money into your country because you know you're going to take 30 of people's money anyway right so i think it's a good move and um yeah sorry my dog's crazy okay i didn't realize you

had a dog it's the first time i heard it bark so in terms of then removing the uh taxes on investment from overseas investors do you think this is going to have a huge influx of tech companies to try to set up shop within. That's the idea as far as I can tell. Right. So that, I think that that's the play. I think the play is for not just any, not just tech companies, but, you know, possibly what the Cayman and, you know, some of these Caribbean and even Panama, like, you know, some of these Caribbean and even Panama, like, you know, to set up your holdings companies there, right? I'm kind of like not super excited about what kind of, you know,

unintended consequences that might bring too, because sometimes, you know, when you look at things like the Panama Papers and, you know, shady things that happens around like finances like that, I don't want El Salvador to become that. But I think that it is certainly trying to attract foreign direct investment, FDIs, right? some capital into the country right now the last thing i want to touch on and i think this might go a few minutes longer than i uh than i think so that's why i'm going to go past an hour my first bitcoin yes you're involved with that yeah i actually wanted to talk about that more than anything else but that's okay we'll talk for the next couple hours but i want i want to talk about this because this is something that's really good.

It's open source. I'm giving the air quotes on this because it's available. There's a GitHub you can go to there and get access to all the curriculum information. This is a course that was initially being offered in El Salvador for individuals to learn more about Bitcoin. And the curriculum was, I think some of the things were deleting, creating a wallet, deleting the keys and restoring it somewhere else.

So that's one of the things. How many people out there that own Bitcoin right now have done that? Like how many people have? Because that's one of the things you should do. Lots of people would fail. Yeah, go ahead. Let's talk about my first Bitcoin. I want to talk a little bit more.

So the floor is yours, buddy. no for sure and i'll i'll openly admit that like i think some days i'm way over my head with this right because it's such a popular um program and here's me larping my way through it uh but um I'm at the point where in what you said at the beginning it's open source which means people don't need my permission to use it go to the github and what's cool about the github is that the new curriculum in English and in Spanish has been updated so fresh brand new translations things are simplified graphics are better the writing is a lot better everything's so much better so like you know this version is even better and it's so easy like if people just want to like learn about bitcoin and go through that document

it's so complete it's so good and for me, it's like what I get excited about is that like, there's an essential piece about understanding money in very simplified terms. It's aimed at youth. But I feel like it is also because so many of us older folks don't understand money because it's aimed at youth and using simplified examples and language that it actually really makes it easy for all of us to learn. And I think in order to understand Bitcoin, you really need to understand money. And that's kind of where I feel like one of the most essential pieces and one of the most valuable things about the program lies and taking you through that journey right and so I was a I have been able to

in my city graduate a number of students who have been like just amazed that like how much they did not know about our current financial system. And like, and some of them shit coiners who are like, oh, yeah, I'm going to dump everything and just go all in on Bitcoin. And so, but I'm wanting to spread this through Canada. And I think that there's the perception that, like, I need to do it. And there isn't. You don't need my permission. You just got to go to the GitHub, educate your family and friends first, and then start out in the community. And then just let me know how many people you graduated how many people can restore

their keys and make a functional wallet and transact and i actually have been teaching this through high fees by the way so i'm i'm also including another layer of test net there because i want people to have the full bitcoin experience and And so Lightning's not a problem, but when we do transactions, we use Testnet so that this in canada and other you know more structured countries around taxes and finances is very different than in el salvador where it's actually money they can transact so one of the things that i like um stress early on to everybody is that we're we're gonna do this in concept at first and then when it's applied and we're using real bitcoin you are responsible for all of this and and you have to know where all of your bitcoin goes and so that's why we're going to do test net so all of the stuff on chain that we do you don't have to think about

the taxes or anything but everything that you do after after that on your own you have to because like you know like i'm not a financial advisor i'm just teaching the the technical piece but you still should know that you're responsible for your bitcoin where it goes and you should keep good good records of that right and even we do a little piece with uh with lightning and i always say keep good records where you got it where it went because they're they may be just 10 satoshis right now who knows what that's going to be worth someday and and if the government needs to know or what you know they whatever then you at least have that record, right? Especially for a class. I mean, like, you know, we talk about good privacy hygiene as well, and as part of the course, and so then, you know, people can take that what they will, and do best practices for themselves, right?

But, you know, as far as me as an instructor, I'm concerned, I'm just giving people the tools so that they can make the best decisions for themselves but you know as far as i go i just make sure that everybody is well aware of their responsibility when it comes to taxes so that's the main difference between teaching the course here in canada versus in el salvador and other places where you don't have to worry about capital gains and all that jazz look how lucky they are that they don't lead the horse to water in terms of providing them the information it's up to them to drink and make sure that that they process it correctly in terms of the course how

often do you personally give that course how often are you are you administering it so we've We've, I've given one right now. And this year, last year, I gave two. And, and we're, um, we got another cohort that's probably in over the summer. And it's a 10 week course. And, and so it's, it's awesome. It's, I got little props for it. I got like monopoly money. I got even cacao, cacao beans, because we use that as commodity money. And it's real cacao. And so the Aztecs and the Mayans used to use cacao as a form of currency and so i've kind of become like a bit of a uh well not an expert like in terms of archaeological or anthropological but at least in terms of bitcoin uh because i i dove the cacao rabbit hole and cacao by the way it's really expensive right now it just like shot up um because of you yeah clearly i bought i bought a bag so yeah but it's uh so it's it's really fun and we actually have a teacher here that has been approved to uh to teach it in the school system in their financial literacy class and i think it's a

first in canada so we're super excited about that we also had like it's you know we have it in consideration for a college program here in Canada but I'm not sure how how successful that'll be but there's interest in it so so we'll see and right now where I'm at with this is I need help. If you you don't have to teach give them the resources and maybe do um a bit of a zoom or google meet so that um that we get going uh like i said people don't need my permission but i still like to know how many people you've taught and graduated because my goal at least for the year is to graduate um as many people as we can not sure how achievable is but other would like to be other than el salvador the the next biggest country of graduating uh

people from this program and so you know and you don't have to charge anything it's free of charge like i i saw on uh on twitter that like i don't know if this was serious or not but this like one of these finance bro telling all these like dudes it's like you gotta buy like bitcoin right now you didn't pay just 10 5 grand for like this course you know just to blah blah blah you gotta buy bitcoin and i, what? People paid five grand for a guy to yell at you to buy Bitcoin? Come on, man. Just download it from Niprimeta Bitcoin for free. I think I saw that video, by the way, that you're talking about.

Yeah. I guess some people need to be yelled at, I guess. I don't know. So we have in the chat, BoomDust is saying, I want in on a telegram group. One of the guys up the Ottawa meetup is a high school teacher and he wants to start a Bitcoin club at his school. So yeah,

you guys get in touch. Okay. So DM me like, uh, at Jamie or Jamie W Garcia. That's my, that's my, uh,

um, Twitter or X handle. Just DM me. My DMs are open. Send me your Telegram handle, and then I'll add you to that, and I'll send some information in about a week's time. In terms of the age of people, you were saying it's generally for younger people. What would you say would be the youngest one should consider getting into this?

And I guess as an upper age, it could be, you know, until your death, right? So people, adults could be even attending this, I'm assuming, right? So I would say like my daughter's in grade eight. She would be like the prime candidate i would say to start to talk about this and the course would address a lot of it the the course itself is aimed for high schoolers so like maybe grade 10 to 12 right um but i've had people in their 20s 30s 40s and beyond taking the course so and here we have somebody else in the chat saying sax strong three thousand hundred percent reaching out to hear jaime thanks for launching in canada so looks like you're going to get a second person from the chat that's going to

be reaching out to you just giving you a heads up on that yeah now in terms of people that are wanting to take the course that you offer, is it in person, virtual? And if it's in person, where geographically is it? So I've been offering the course here in Saskatchewan and it's been in person. And I preferred it that way because, like, I really want to meet the people, I think, and just wanted to make sure that I was doing my pedagogy correctly. And actually, my wife's a teacher by trade. She doesn't practice it, but she told me it's actually not pedagogy, but andogy or something like that because it's I'm teaching it to adults mostly so I don't know I don't know what that word means it just basically means like

the art of teaching or the or the other method by which you teach and people gain that knowledge right so so then the point is that like I'm teaching it mostly to adults and I want to make sure that the methods that I'm using are striking and they're learning. And so that's why I prefer to teach it in person. And the course itself, they really propose strongly that you do it in meat space, which is just a fancy word for in real in real life or yeah in the world right uh because then you can have more interactive stuff going on but it has been taught um online and i will do an online course in the fall winter as well um but when it comes to like if you want to be prepared to teach i'm happy to jump on a google meet or on a zoom call and one of the exciting things that we got going on this year is that we got a couple people from el salvador coming to the

canadian bitcoin conference in montreal and uh and i'm going to be there and we're going to do a bit of a presentation and actually bull bitcoin has reached out to me about maybe doing um a bit of a workshop for educators and stuff like that and and um you know uh we're also working with the bitcoin the canadian bitcoin coalition about you know what how we can work together in terms of our education efforts. And all in all, this is the one thing that I feel most excited about, most bullish about. And I think that, yeah, I think it's good because, listen, it all starts with education. And this is non-biased education. We're not shilling a product.

We're not shilling an exchange. We're not shilling anything. Like, it's completely independent, unbiased. We're not even shilling El Salvador or nothing like that. Like, it came out of El Salvador, and it's for the world, and it's free. I have charged nominal for the cost of running, printing the book if people want it. But you don't have to. That's the beauty of it.

If you want to charge zero or you want to charge for the cost up, you can as a teacher just to recoup some you know the printing and some of the props that you buy that you're probably going to reuse right you you can but it it's it's like it's zero right and and what i've done with my students i've actually printed out a sheet and say yeah i've charged you this much for all of this today right and and that's that's and i'm not i'm not making any money it does cost you to do you right to print and even to rent the space too i mean the space isn't free i'm assuming not so luckily i've been uh the guys uh at uh a quick bit uh boutique here and uh and and regina have uh provided the space for us so so they they've that. But yeah, like, you know, you have to think

about those things, right? If somebody is able to donate their time and their space, then for sure, you know, you can pass, you know, that no cost to your students, right? But if not, then, you know, the reality too, is that like, things sometimes when they're for free, people don't value them, right? And it's important for people as part of the course to understand that there's always a cost and a tradeoff, right? So it's like, oh, you guys don't want to be charged anything? There's no book. The book's going to be virtual. You can print it on your own, right?

You're just providing information and education. And with that, hopefully they'll be able to parlay this into something bigger and better how did you were able to get this shoehorned into the curriculum in the school system over there because you were mentioning that somebody over so tyler who's the teacher doing this he has been a bitcoiner for a little bit. And so like he is, he's, he's kind of where we're at. Right. So, and he's, he was like, what, what kids need to know this. And so, and I think that his superintendent was super like open to this idea. And he's like, wow, this makes sense to me.

Go for it. So. Wow. That's incredible because generally you know it's so restrictive and it's rigid in its approach to have somebody within the the walled gardens that have an open mind this is unheard of in a lot of cases it's good it's cooking it up for them now there's no phone call from this conversation. But I mean, the thing is, it's like, you know, like, let's embrace this, especially as Canadians, right? Like, I mean, look, I mean, I'm from El Salvador, and the goal is to move back there someday. But you know, the reason why people left El Salvador to Los Angeles and Texas and everywhere else in the U.S. and Canada and Sweden and Australia

is not because they wanted to leave their family behind, but because they needed to. There was war. There was a necessity to leave. Right. Now, my roots are here. You know, my wife's Canadian. My my you know, my daughters, they have their friends and family here. We can't all leave El Salvador to El Salvador. We have some of us have to stay here. And although at some point I will go to El Salvador and stay there, you know, a lot of us can't or can't for right now. And so we have to make it better here. And I think this is part of it and so some of the best bitcoiners around the world are canadians and um and so you know it um rather than

like um you know push this aside we have to embrace it and say like look you know we can't be afraid of this this is just just the progression of the internet, you know, and, and so and we have some of the best minds in the world doing this, that are from here. And so why not, you know, make it better, right? So, you know, in terms of how it's being accepted in Canada, we in terms of a nation, Canada's pushing or pulling our weight quite well in the Bitcoin world. We have a fair number of Bitcoiners, prominent Bitcoiners here in comparison to other nations, and we have relatively small population.

And also on top of that, say what you want about the country itself, the economy may not be doing as well as the United States. But in terms of how the laws and regulations pertain to Bitcoin, they're quite favorable in comparison to other jurisdictions. Here, you could buy Bitcoin. The government's not going to give you any issue. You can even buy KYC and no problems there. In fact, you're using Canada Post in regard to their Yobo Bitcoin shirt.

So with respect to that, Canada is a great place to be a Bitcoiner. So I just wanted to just, you know, there may be a lot of people out there that are down on the country for this or that reason. But if you take a step back and look what's going on, as a Bitcoiner, it's not too bad. We could be in a lot worse places than in Canada. So embrace it and take advantage while you can.

Now, in terms of anybody that wants to do what you're doing but do it on a different part of the country say in bc or what's the best approach what type of skill set do they need what sort of material or what do they need in order to start this and yeah so uh essentially like i think that there's a lot of capable people i think you need to be confident so you need you need to be confident in your skills you're probably the bitcoin guy for a lot of your friends and family uh so if you're that type of person and um even if you're not but you think you're close um you know you you probably that that person and um the way that I would say is like, send me a DM, go to my first bitcoins, get GitHub, download the PDF of the newest edition of the course, take a look through it,

and start by teaching your friends and family, grab your mom, your dad, your sister, your brother, a couple buddies, and just, you know, have them go through the course. So that's in a judgment-free environment. And that's all really you'll need after that point. I think you're going to be, if you're that person, you'll probably be in a position where you can uh do this for for a lot of people but uh but i would like to to know who you are because you don't need my permission to do this you can just go ahead and do it without even telling me but i would like to know how many people are you graduating in your neck of the woods and um and then uh so that we keep good um records of how the course is being used and um and i would like to get the um this to a point where um we reward educators across the

country we're not at that point yet but we reward educators across the country and people who are graduating and creating a good community of um of of graduates and in your communities um are rewarded for for your um efforts right so yeah and you know canada is a multicultural country and i'm looking at the github right now i see four different translations there could be more out there i'm gonna swear it was italian but i see the english the spanish korean and german version so if you wanted to offer any of those different languages you can do so even in canada i mean we have a lot of koreans here we have a small amount of germans and sp. There's, there's a French version coming out right away too.

So for our, you know, folks over in Quebec and other Francophone communities, actually there's a big Francophone and Métis and, um, um, mid-chief community here in Saskatchewan, Manitoba.

So, you know, there, yeah, like the end, the end and all the different languages. I think there's a Punjab coming for Vancouver and Toronto and stuff like that. And other communities where there's a large Indian diaspora. So, you know, there's a lot of information that or a lot of translations that not only are useful across the world,

but in communities here within Canada. Were you involved at all with the translation of Spanish to English? No, I made a small little correction. That's about it. That was all done by Salvadorans and people on the ground, like John Dennehy and such. Very cool. Now, I guess we're getting kind of long in this one

is there anything else you want to talk about my first bitcoin because i don't want to end this before we exhaust this topic and you make sure no you okay like i i yeah did did i get passionate about this one because i had a lot of fun i've had a lot of fun doing it. Probably too much time doing it. And that's why I need help because like, I think like, you know, I'm, I'm still raising my family and I got other obligations and I, I want other people to carry the torch. Like it, this does not have to depend on me. This is open source and I want other Canadians to sort of like take the

initiative and and do this with me um and help me out in in their communities right because in the thing is that like i can't be in toronto and vancouver or in montreal where our biggest centers are where there's more people to impact so so that's you know i need help in those communities as well. And so, yeah, like let's just send me a DM. I'll get you in the Telegram group and I'll send you some info shortly. If ever you are looking to have it broadcasted as well, let us know and reach out to Joey or I. Absolutely. And it will happen.

So, yeah, Jaime, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show. Any last parting words that you want to impose on us before we go? Because the floor is yours, especially if people want to reach out to you after hearing about this. I mean, where can people reach you? Anything you want to talk about? The last few minutes here is yours. No, I mean, you know, we tend to forget that there's, especially now where spring has sprung in a lot of parts of the country. You know, let's get off the internet.

I've actually unplugged a little bit while I've been sick. And I feel like that's sometimes better for my emotional well-being, just uh away from the uh from from the bitcoin chatter and gossip and and so just enjoy life enjoy family um and um yeah do your 100 push-ups a day that's see that's the other reason why i got sick i wasn't doing my push-ups so yeah i i take the first part of it to heart because this is going to be for me the summer of len that's a a reference to seinfeld i'm going to be enjoying this summer as much as i can the last few summers i've been um i've been very very busy but this one i'm going to start enjoying this you know price will be high it's going to be a good summer for me but anyways i mean thanks for

coming on if anybody wants to reach him in the notes below on the video and audio it's our it's his um twitter or slash x you can just reach out to him from there and uh yeah buddy thanks for coming on and until next time we'll have you whenever you have anything else let us know jaime we'll bring you back on buddies thanks land see ya See ya. Don't forget everybody. Lots of other stuff on CBP media network, including two whites and a blue me, Joey,

my brother-in-law, Mike, and our friend will talk about all the problems millennials are having with finance romance and just getting by. If you'd like CBP, if you'd like the NHLl 94 podcast i guarantee you'll like that one search for it two whites and blue anywhere you get your podcasts we look forward to seeing you