The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP - Madex, The Canadian Bitcoin Conference Interview

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES

Okay, attempt number two, friends and enemies, hotel room, RIP Montreal downtown. Just got finished rearranging the couch here with Madex, who's in the walking boot. Great panel today, I should say. We should maybe start there. Outstanding panel. A couple people asked me when I got there today if we had prepared, because they noted that the topic of the discussion had changed a couple times in the lead up to the conference and asked if we had like practiced or if we had any key points

or if uh there was any discussion at all between the three of us about this the answer is no there was nothing certainly i wasn't involved in anything that's for damn sure i think you and francis spoke for like 30 seconds yeah Yeah. We went to the bagel restaurant, the famous bagel restaurant to discuss what we would talk about and the

extent of that conversation was the title of the talk. And that was it and then uh yeah but it's what it's what we believe so yeah it's uh we talked about it when you were uh on the show when was that february march maybe something like that was a few months ago now yeah i always allot an hour for the interviews. And I think in that interview, somebody messaged me on Twitter. Somebody listens to the show and they were talking about how I had just said on the air that we're getting close to the hour time to wrap up. But the feed was showing that the podcast was only one third of the way done.

Today, your girlfriend, your lovely partner, your lovely, uh, your lovely partner there came up to us before we left in the Uber and said, hopefully this time he doesn't keep you for three hours or keep talking or whatever. I don't view it like that. I like talking to people. I think that if the interview goes long, it's because there's lots to say, and this is a good discussion and a flow, right? But, uh, I had to get you back. I had to get you in person. I think I've seen you before. I want these to be evergreen so that if I want to take a week off in the summertime, I can release these episodes. They don't have to be evergreen, but I tried to pick guests who I thought could do evergreen interviews. I opened four slots

for the podcast thinking that I would fill three. And I tried to pick three guests that would give me stuff that people could listen to at any time in a month, in a year, in 10 years and get value from. I think you're a good candidate for that. So I want to talk a bit about what we were talking about on the way here in the cab, this injury you have, what it's taught you. People who listen to our show hear about my injuries all the time and how they're sort of character building and whatnot. You've got this boot on, you destroyed your foot skiing. Talk to me a bit about what happened, and we'll talk about the effect it's had on you.

The effects, I should say, both positive and negative. Yeah, I destroyed it skiing, hitting jumps. I freestyle skied when I was a teenager, and I know how to do it. And I just, getting older, and I was a teenager and I know how to do it and I just getting older and I made a mistake and I uh exploded my calcaneus bone and so now I I don't have to buy uh any more Swiss watches because I got six titanium screws and a titanium plate uh right under my ankle. So I am a Swiss watch now. This was tough, man.

I was, I'm an extremely competent, high performing, busy person. And this was like pulling life support, like just immediately shut down, immediately grounded, can't walk. In the highest, I've had previous injuries. This is the most insane one in terms of pain. And yeah, it's been a journey,

particularly into delegation and understanding that because the simplest things I just wasn't really able to do on my own. Anyone who's had an injury understands that. And I guess it was just my time to learn this lesson. And this was, you know, God's plan. What's interesting is that I should not have been skiing. I should have been working. I was skiing with unfinished work, and maybe that's one way to look at it. Isn't all your work unfinished? Like, you have a lot of stuff that's, I mean, in these videos I see of your studio, there doesn't look like there's a lot of finished stuff anywhere.

A lot of it looks unfinished. The finished stuff sells pretty quickly, so there's not much. And I did have a huge stock of finished stuff, but to get through the bear market, I basically just fire-sailed it all. So there's not much stock left. I bought one. People have come to the house for the show maybe a half dozen times at this point with more to come. And I have a lot of stuff in that studio that's uh i don't know kind of gawk worthy like the the computers this monster

you know 30 40 pound thing uh the backdrop is like really nicely put together everyone asks about the madex i actually just had uh tom caradza who runs a real estate brokerage in oakville and his kid aiden come over. And the first thing they both asked was if that piece that I got from you, the totem, was a Madex. And I said, yeah, man, like it's as good as it gets. I was showing them the back. People see the front all the time, obviously,

but they don't see the back with the open dime and the text and the signature. And today, I didn't really get to know you that well last year. I helped you ship your stuff to Toronto, but I've gotten to know you a bit this year. Watching you sort of be a people pleaser at the Bull Bitcoin desk there, the Bull Bitcoin booth, signing autographs for people, which presumably down the road will have some value,

if they don't already. How does that make you feel? It's got to be this incredible feeling where you're meeting people who don't know you from Adam apart from your work and they feel like they have to get something signed from you. The work you do speaks to them in some way. That's got to make you feel good.

I'm only a man with competence, and signatures is one of those competencies. It's great. I mean, the whole goal of this project is to be able to, you know, Picasso was able to live his entire life without spending a cent because he just carried a checkbook around.

Is that true? He ate for free everywhere he went. Most things he purchased, free. Everything free because the signature in the checkbook was worth more than anything he was buying. One day, maybe Maynard Signature gets to that level. But Madex is not about me.

Not about me. It is about the work. And I am just building this machine that I wish to create good work. So as long as I'm just building this machine that I wish to create good work. So as long as I'm around, I will sign stuff with my signature as Madex. But after that, I wish for brand Madex to continue. So when I look to the future, I want to bring in – I want to create jobs for artists, creators, and designers.

How do you do that? Operate like a fashion house more than an art project. You're like the most unique guy. I mean, I'm not an art guy, but when I look at your stuff, there's no one doing anything like what you're doing. My wife calls it like Mr. Robot chic.

She doesn't know how else to describe it. I don't know how to describe it. How do you propagate that? You don't have any to describe it. How do you, how do you prolong, how do you propagate that? You know, you're not, you don't have any protégés, right? Your girlfriend's not painting.

Not yet, but that's the goal. The goal is eventually I will find someone who I will shape to continue on Madex as a brand into the future. So I'm, I'm long-term thinking on Madex as a brand into the future. So I'm long-term thinking on Madex.

I think very often about Hermes and Yves Saint Laurent. People don't know what Hermes is. It's a luxury brand name. And other very, very old companies. So today we call them luxury brands because they have become that. But a luxury brand is earned. So the start of a luxury brand is a brand and a quality product. Over time, the quality increases and the reach of the brand is well

recognized because the items that are sold last, and this is particularly important when the money is hard. When you are incentivized to not have to repurchase items and you are incentivized to not want to repair items. And so you have to make sure that what you buy is very good and will last a very long time. Fiat cuts this out because we have the infinite disposability of stuff. And we also have the need to, because the value of the money is melting away in your hand you have the need to convert it into physical assets goods products as fast as possible and it is more important to uh get the product today than to wait till tomorrow and obviously you guys probably bitcoiners by now bitcoin flips that. So for Madex to become a luxury brand is not my goal yet.

It will become a luxury brand because of the product quality in the same way that these original, like Hermes started with saddles and horse gear. Oh, okay, yeah. And it was the best. Extremely talented craftspeople. You would have to intern for many, many, many, many, many years learning. The structure of it was very, very intense around product quality.

The Fiaters come in today and they, well, not Hermes. It's still family owned. But these other conglomerates, anything under LVMH is bought by the Fiat banksters. And they look at the project and what is their goal? Once St. Laurent is owned by investors and not creators, the goal becomes how do we get as much money out of this brand as possible? So what they do is they basically, they're like juicing oranges. They're squeezing the brands dead.

Because if you look at the product quality of something from St. Laurent today, 2005, 1995, 1985, 1950, go all the way back. Yes, the designs change, but the product quality is noticeably worse year over year as you rewind the clock because the fiaters are cutting costs in manufacturing and production and they want to ride the brand until it dies. And they don't adjust price.

In fact, they increase price, but they got product quality and they got all of that stuff. So Madex is going to earn its position. So right now, Madex is known for art. And I hope that it's always anchored in art. I think that art is critical to all other design, to all other artistic, all other creative disciplines.

Art is the essential one because it is the most, there is no explanation to me when I see a painting that I want to buy because I'm also an art collector myself there's no rational explanation or anything that makes sense or for when I see something I like and I want to own it

so obviously we have ideals we want to add into things we buy and what not but every once in a while I see something where there's no explanation of why I wish to hang this piece of art on my wall. And I think that that is like the root that many other creative arts come from. And so I want Madex to be anchored in that, but I'm working on launching jewelry currently. We're in the prototyping phase. I'm making all kinds of stuff. There's going to be a sale at some point of all the one-offs in the prototyping phase i'm making all kinds of stuff there's going to be

a sale at some point of all the one-offs in in the testing process and then eventually we're going to get to uh uh doing releases and limited runs and all the kind of sort of things so i'm i'm shifting the medium of it but keeping the art and um then later other elements like i'm working with this leather mint character who we spoke about on stage today tell people a bit about that and yeah so this I don't know anything about him other than I like his tweets and he does very good craft work and I think and and he's also on a journey of learning and to improve a craft skill. And with leather goods as well,

there's many people who stick up their nose about spending, I don't know, $200 on a belt because you can buy a $20 belt or $5,000 on a belt because you can buy a $20 belt. But everything is all relative. And also there is noticeable product quality difference between the levels even with the corruption and the fiat gutting that is happening today um and uh this i this leatherman guy is making stuff he is making stuff out of good materials and it will last. And it's powered by Bitcoin because he accepts Bitcoin and he uses his craft to spread the Bitcoin message.

So this is very, very cool. I think anyone who does something useful and is willing to accept Bitcoin, no matter where they are in their journey, whether they're just beginning or whether they're already a master, deserves my business over a random person. Right. Someone who is not... So I would rather spend Bitcoin on someone who is in the process of becoming than sell Bitcoin for filthy, disgusting, rotting, moldy fucking paper shit and then to have to trade that for services.

So, and yeah, today on stage, there was a wallet that he made. He completed the wallet directly in the having block. And through a long chain of events, it ended up with Francis. And Francis is very happy with it. And I am very jealous of it because I also attempted to buy it and I failed. Outbid by Francis. Yeah. I mean, look, the one thing I think even the no coin crowd can, you know, the thing that

resonates with the no coin crowd, even the normie, is this idea of trading one difficult to acquire or produce item for another. Society was built on that after all, right? People weren't trading fiat for cows 200 years ago, right? They were trading cattle for cattle or services for cattle or in some cases, you know, women or wives or whatever for cattle. This practice continues today in some regions of the world. I think most people, whether they like Bitcoin or not, they understand that this is a thing that's hard to acquire. And the way that we value Bitcoin sort of carries that message and more people are turned on to it. It's funny, we turn the chairs around and look outside at the buildings here during the show.

But when you look at what's being built here, does this strike you as long for this world? This is all sort of Fiat manufacturing, Fiat construction, Fiat designs. Everything is... Yeah, these buildings will be slums in five to 10 years, especially because they were in Canada and where Canada is going.

So all high-rises become slums. That is their final stage. They start as luxury condos and they end as slums. And we are going to see this in Canada because as the cost of living increases and there are people who are willing to live in worse and worse conditions and these two-bedroom fancy condo units like the ones in toronto that don't even have power outlets in the backsplash of the kitchen there's going to be three people living in them then four people living in them then six people living in them, then six people living in them. It will all become overcapacity.

And as a result of that, the building is not designed to handle that. Garbage in the hallways, crime, violence, all kinds of horrible stuff. That's where these are going. I don't think they will be destroyed, but the cost of repairing them

will become so intensive, they will likely be abandoned by managers, and they will become jungles. Don't you think that... I don't know how to phrase this, because I think a lot of people don't understand, but I think about when I see videos of your studio, for example, that looks like a space that's conducive to human flourishing.

The one thing I notice about even friends of mine who live in like these sort of shoe boxes in the sky, like a place the size of this room, right? This is a pretty big ish hotel room for the average person. Human flourishing is, has become secondary to so many people. I saw a great exchange on Twitter the other day about how King,

it was a picture of King Henry, one of the King Henrys. I don't know which one to be honest with you made X, but the idea in the tweet was this person was saying, you know, your life is not that bad. You think it's bad because things are expensive or, you know, your phone is hard to use. You know what I mean? Exactly. And the tweet was like, your life is better than King Henry's in almost every way. And I just think that when I saw that tweet, the first thing that stuck out to me was you don't appreciate that your life is not better than King Henry's because King Henry had this drive to conquer that drove all the things that he got.

And space. Yeah. Luxury is space. You know what I mean? He had this like, it's hard to tell people who are driven by my life is better than yours because my phone is better or because my room is bigger or because my car is newer. That's not what having a better life means. Having a better life means you can flourish in a way where you have an idea, you can execute

on the idea and build and grow. Like you're saying, this generational thinking that Bitcoiners seem to be getting better and better at and are more willing to share, thankfully, with the rest of the world that other people don't understand at all. Everything is this keeping up with the Joneses. And I made this point on the show the other day that because of fiat,

there actually is no Jones in the keeping up with the Joneses equation. Everybody is faking it. There's no one out there who actually is getting what they say they're getting or has what they say they have. None of it is real. None of it.

It's all dead. Yeah. So like, how do you, as an artist, the thing I'm curious about from, you know, I want to get your point of view on, when you think about stuff like that and you say to yourself, I don't want to be,

like, because you do want great things for yourself, but you don't want other people to try and do what you're doing for the sake of getting what you have. Right. This is a problem. I think a lot of Bitcoiners have too, right? You don't want, I don't want other people to buy Bitcoin just because they think it made me rich. I don't want people to buy Bitcoin just because they think it got me a nice car. I want them to get it. How do you make people fucking get it? Cause right now they don't clearly in the fiat world. How do you make people get what we're doing here? Uh uh through what you're doing as an artist or any other way you decide how you want to handle that question but it's a big one and we don't talk about that question

enough we don't want people in bitcoin because it made us rich but that's why people are coming we can't have that yeah well it's i mean that's the way it'll happen for 99% of people likely. Um, but, uh, and I, I think that, uh,

it's not, it's not a bad reason to get into it. Um, capital accumulation is the core of economic progress and of quality of life, increasing of everything. And Bitcoin lets you do what you want and then it works for you on the side without you doing anything as it accrues more and more value, right? But it's... When people look at Madex project, I just, I want kind of two reactions. One I really want is I can do that and I can do it way better because I

want to collect made X art, but I actually want to collect whoever is better than made X art. And I want to find who, you know it, but because i can't collect madex art because i like i'm making it for me but no matter how good it is to me i still made it so it is discounted in my you know in my value so i want my ultimate uh like if i could be on an infinite loop for life would be meeting people like me and seeing

their workspace, getting a tour of their workspace and seeing what the fuck they're up to in there because I'm really now with this 3,000 square foot warehouse where we're working on all kinds of shit it's all normal to me at the Madex studio. It's all normal.

It's all part of the plan. It does not look any different than the lobby of a hotel to me. And when I bring people in there, it kind of blows their mind. It is. It looks crazy. And I vicariously try to absorb some energy from that and try and be able to see because we're all especially if we're intelligent we're all extremely critical extremely hard on ourselves and i try and take some of that energy

and be like yeah this is awesome even though i know that like i've probably in my career reached eight percent maybe in terms of like what my potential is in skill where do you get i still have to celebrate that where do you get that number from eight percent eight percent very the same calculate it's actually similar similar calculation to 6.15 bitcoin being all you eat which by the way pretty accurate what's that right now like 700 grand canadian something like that yeah you can do a lot with that money man yeah not not really actually less and less every day less and less every day but soon you will be like i had to tweet the other day that was like remember everybody listening to this that you're 0.01 bitcoin fucking that up is no different than fucking up 50 bitcoins in 2015 if you flailed 50 bitcoins in

2015 and if you flail your 0.01 bitcoin like everyone's so thinking about how they wish they were early early on bitcoin is excruciating horrible pain. Yeah. It is crushing. I, for the rest of my life, will very likely never earn the wealth that I would have had if I just got hit by a bus and didn't die and woke up today back when all this began. Yeah.

So that sucks. that sucks a lot so none of you people think about that just fucking take care of your 0.0001 your 0.01 your 0.1 your 1 your 10 fucking take care of that shit and treat it with respect and it it, I've lost the plot here. It's fine. I think maybe, uh, the best place to go from that is, you know, how do you, it's, it's hard. I don't, I don't want to get too esoteric cause I, I hate us to our podcast, but the thing I always try and tell people, I don't know, I'd be curious to hear what you tell people when they ask you about like 0.1. The thing I always say is, look, man, you know, that 0.1, if it's worth, what is it? Six grand, let's say American, something like that. Right. I think the price is like 67,000. So if it's, if it's six grand or seven grand, yeah. Could you sell it and have like a real nice like vacation

or maybe like rent a cottage for a month in the summertime. Maybe, you can have fun with it. But I always say like, look, if you can wait another five years, that'll become a significantly larger amount of money. And if you can wait five more years after that, because you've already done the five years, that'll be something that you could like pass to your kid or pass to your grandkid or whatever. Francis put it well today when we were on stage together.

Do you want the car or do you want your great-great-grandson to be able to execute on an idea that you had for a business without having to bend the knee to the Fiat realm? That's where you want to be. You don't want to have to have people dip back into that world of the perversion of incentives and all that stuff. That's what I think about all the time.

My wife is pregnant now and I think to myself all the time like yeah you're throwing your hands up hallelujah i think to myself all the time like if i had spent that bitcoin on dumb shit over the last seven or eight years where how fucking mad would you be as your time preference is influenced so heavily by the way your life has changed in the last six months and this is very important cash flow is the capital thing that all bitcoiners should be thinking about income it's one word it's it's spelt i m c o n e income okay this is what you got to focus on if if you have income, Bitcoin price doesn't exist. And you should never think about it. Because it doesn't matter.

If you're living within your means and you have income and you're buying Bitcoin, the price doesn't matter at all. Yeah, yeah. And even wanting to use it doesn't matter at all. You know? Because you can... Buy and replace. No matter what, can't hodl for eternity. Your woman wants the Lamborghini truck.

You got to make sacrifices for success. So you're down a Lamborghini truck worth of Bitcoin. Maybe you get an extra child out of it. And if it's worth it in that moment it's worth it in that moment and you can't hold on to that you know and also i think that like some like on spending on stupid shit like i have definitely spent money on stupid you got some crazy shit people who haven't watched the episode we did a few months ago where you're pulling out the lighter do you have the lighter are you about to pull it out you're doing something you're just something is coming out here this like lighter that's it's that's got to be that's the one from the video yeah the flick to the side thing yeah looks nuts looks absolutely nuts like i it's but

that's not really a dumb spend no this is not a dumb spend no i don't think so um so this is so this is i i carry these because it's um an example of so their fiat has brought confusion to the terms luxury and quality. Okay? So, someone will say a Rolex watch is no better than a Casio watch. But it depends on what your

measurements are and what your relative wealth is. Right? In terms of complexity and not, you know, I'm not Karl Marx I don't think the amount of time and effort invested in something makes it more valuable

but you know the Rolex is an incredibly complicated device the Casio will run out of battery the Rolex will tick forever it needs some servicing once in a while it's like an engine but

you cannot say the quality is less, even though the utility is the same. And it's the same thing with this lighter. This is a ST DuPont. This is a Launch 2 single flame. and I keep it with me to explain the difference because everybody has touched a Bic lighter, but few people have touched this. And immediately when, when,

when, when, when we're on hard money in the past and hopefully in the future, beauty in life comes out of these interactions with it. And something as simple as lighting a cigarette, the quality of life is truly increased by using something that weighs 40 pounds and makes a bell sound i don't know if it's 40 but it is over a plastic lighter yeah but more importantly lesson i was very grateful to have from my family how often have you, if you use lighters or if you know someone who uses lighters,

how often have you lost that lighter all the time? I can never find a lighter in my house. Cause what's the consequence to losing a big lighter? Nothing. What's the consequence to losing this? You'll never, you'll never forget. You'll never forget.

Yeah. This will not be lost. And if it's lost, that's very bad. i am not happy about losing this yeah even just like watching you pull it out of a secure sort of element on your person right it's not in your fucking pocket it's not just dangling yes there is some other stuff dangling that i didn't notice till just now but uh yeah so what the the point is that when – with hard money, you are forced – the incentives align to respect what you own. And I think when you respect what you own, you also respect the people around you, the opportunities you've been given, the work you're able to create.

And there's many of these help people that say, you know, make your bed every day. And it's like, okay, like, you know. I like that advice, by the way. And it's cracked out advice and it's amazing advice at the same time. It's both. Are you capable of nuance? It's both. So it trains a habit into you that's useful in accomplishing other tasks.

Not ever losing my fucking lighter means I don't ever lose very many things ever okay and uh this is a very good skill to have if you want to you know get through the world and especially in a world that is going to become less disposable yeah um as more higher quality goods are produced so it becomes more expensive for replacements and also you don't want to replace anything because your bitcoins are going to become more valuable you don't want to spend them so it trains a habit um and then you know when you have everything else in the world uh you have to add color and uh there is a there there is and this is what what's sad about this is that it's so far lost from people today because of how fucked everything has become, how cheap and fucked

and plastic and break all the time. Everything has become like, it is a hundred percent normal to buy something on Amazon right now. Yeah. Use it for three weeks, and it breaks, and not even bother with the return. Forget about it, yeah. Because the time it would take to go through all that bullshit,

you buy a new one or you just don't use that thing anymore. It's crazy, man. I know, I know. And with everything that has to change, like from something simple like a lighter to your clothes to your pots and pans to your whatever you use. And especially now, like we are, we talk about, okay, in the future on a hard money standard, everybody this, that, and the other will be incentivized to produce better product and to buy better product. But it's happening right now. We kind of talk about it in this future way, but it's happening right now. If you have a Bitcoin balance, you should be thinking about upgrading every essential fucking thing that you have so

that it doesn't have to be replaced uh and this right now is very difficult to do because of the fiat scamming i was talking about earlier where uh cappuccino machine a used to be the best goddamn it used to be the level of like dupont has not they make very few of these they're all limited um and uh i i believe it's still family owned uh i'm i'm not sure but uh they have not cut very much and they're very classic um but other things that you may not know, that the cappuccino machine that used to be the best in the world and used to have a standard on the level of the DuPont is no longer run by the people who founded it and gave a shit about cappuccino machines.

It's now run by investment bankers, private equity guys, and thus quality is being gutted. The bottom line is to the investors, not to the client. So fiat services the investors, not the clients. It's insane the way it's falling off. So you have to be careful with your choosing because now many brands are scams because they are riding off the quality that was established and they're gutting it out and they're trying to scam you. But if you do find one that is still honorable and they are out there, maybe I should make a list of the ones that I am aware of.

I would love for other people to to share them with me um murdoch put me onto this headlamp that i just got that is very excellent very high quality headlamp um just as an example of one and uh you know what i bought that fucking headlamp so i don't ever have to buy another one again yeah unless i lose it but guess what i carry around this fucking lighter you know that is like a you don't even smoke i haven't seen you a year's salary well i don't think i can smoke in here you can't smoke in the room but you could have smoked earlier oh by the way next time you think you live in a free country light a cigarette at the risk of uh pushing too far into your personal life one thing you mentioned there

um or didn't mention i should say you know know, the things you spend time on or are manufactured with great care, built with great care, you never want to lose. You treasure them and keep them close. I sort of half met your better half today while we were waiting for the Uber. Seems like a lovely young woman. You had a lot of glowing things to say about her in the cab. I don't want to push you to repeat those things. That's a bit much, but is there something to be said for the way that Fiat has negatively influenced relationships over the last, you know, 15 or so years? There was never any, you know, I don't want to say there wasn't a fly byby-night dating or meat market type stuff like Tinder. I'm sure there was. But it seems to me like now it's so rare in someone in their, let's say, late 20s, early 30s to be in a committed relationship with a girl who is at the same level of commitment that they are.

Taking the same care to grow the relationship and build and, you know, uh, make changes that are beneficial to both partners. And one thing I think that we don't talk about a lot in Bitcoin, mostly honestly, because it seems to me like a lot of Bitcoiners like don't have girlfriends or don't know how to talk to girls, but we don't seem to understand that this is, this is like a really positive side effect of the,

the time preference change the way you think you're not going to want to just date fly by night girls anymore. And they're not going to want to date and move on from you because you have a longer term way of thinking about things. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on the whole Bitcoin's effect on the relationship space, the marriage space, the child rearing space. It's a bit of a hard question to answer because we're still so early and the sample size is not huge. But even at the conference today, did you notice when we were on stage, there's like a number of like kids cooing in the crowd? Isn't that something? I never would have guessed people were there with

their infant children, but sure as shit, there's a bunch of little kids there. Well, it's very difficult. So on the kids comment, it's very difficult so on the kids comment it's very difficult uh if you are so if you're at a bitcoin conference with your kids you're likely based so for sure it is very hard uh to find other based families um and i mean for the the amount of um events that have to happen for your child to become friends with another child and also the parents to be compatible yeah it's quite crazy and uh so i think that like um um uh certainly in other countries i've been to, it is. And I guess maybe it lines up with like kind of our age range. I don't really know. But if we are not building families, like what's the point?

You're kind of just dragging it out at that right it's there there's and uh if if you are building families what you want to do is connect to other families that will support this exit from the um matrix yeah and so that's why i think that these kids show up here and I think it's amazing and I support it and I love it. And I'm very excited to have my own soon and meet based families basically for relationships. I think,

are you, are you empty there? Do you want another one? Yes. Yes. I'll refill. I was going to ask you to refill, but you can't really get to the fridge.

No, I can't. Continue. Don't, don't stop. Okay. It's audio't really get to the fridge. No, I can't. Continue. Don't stop. Okay. It's audio. People can't see me. Right, right, right. And you'll clip it, I guess, a bunch. So. With relationships, the... Okay, hold on.

Let me remember the question. Distracted by this fucking thing. All right. There, thanks. This is good content. I don't flip anything, mate. This is all I'm going in, so... Okay, so you're lazy.

Oh, fuck. I gave Matex the shaken Guinness, clearly. Just enjoy the sound effects of two guys having a good time watching construction, talking about the downfall of society. Here's to getting filthy rich and dying in the arms of a beautiful woman. Incredible. Put that on a shirt. i'll buy it right away um big change is uh obviously this well-known concept which probably many of you the time preference um i think bitcoiners looking for relationships just need to find it a be um certain in their own time preference and then also getting scarce but have the luck to find um a lady that also has that long-term vision um it's

this we the fiat in the same way that the product is disposable, the fiat culture wants us to believe our bodies are disposable, I guess, and our lives are disposable. some places, but they want to destroy the family because when there is no family, there's the government. And so big effort in destroying the family unit. And we see that with the push with feminism and all its types. And we see that with the with the push with feminism and all all its uh types and we see that with the attitude of young women today and uh do the guys bear any responsibility there you think the men well we're letting it happen okay okay um yeah i don't know uh i mean we're participating in it somehow. I mean, I came from before I met my wife, I, you know, I, I'm not going to, actually I will guess, I would guess, you know,

you spent some time sowing your wild oats. Uh, it doesn't seem to me like you'd have a hard time doing that. And something changed in me when I met my wife, probably something changed in you when you met your girlfriend. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you, I don't know how you force that change, right? Like there's like a quality in the other person that makes you decide to change the way you behave and look at things. But now it seems like those qualities are sort of more and more rare in both genders. Like I, I don't know what else to say besides that. Like it that. It's hard for me to imagine that you'd be like, oh, I'm going to just decide that the next girl I meet on Tinder

is going to be the last one I meet on Tinder or whatever, and you're going to just change the way you think about that stuff. Bitcoiners, we understand that there's a change to be made, but have a hard time making it in some cases. Especially if it's your first time, how the fuck would you know? How are you supposed to know? you have nothing to compare it to yeah i i don't know um like i knew what i wanted because it was uh trained into me from my family so yeah i was lucky with that i don't think it uh i don't know what the point is. I guess I think when – and we also get the same amount of propaganda as men that the ladies do.

And it's equally as bad in terms of pushing that kind of, you know, and celebrating it. And it's all about the kill count. Everything's about the kill count. Yeah. And it's pretty ridiculous. It's a it's a it's exactly it's no different than what we're talking about with product, which is that it is quantity over quality. Right. And I like I like that also applies to like fiat money.

It's like it's it's not about it's not about the purchasing power of your money it's about how much money you have how much can you print right how much money do you have it's not about what you can do do with it right um i recently became a trillionaire which i'm really excited in boulevard right uh no not in boulevard and i actually can't even tell you what the currency is. Great. But if I was better prepared, like I said, recently, I'm new to this whole trillionaire thing. Probably this morning.

Probably this morning. But I guess it's the, what's the, I have one of the Zimbabwe notes that I think is, I don't think it's a T note. I think it's like a hundred. Maybe it is a T. Those Zimbabwe ones are insane. Insane. Completely insane. David's saying I'm just coming tomorrow with the money to talk about that. Yeah. But yeah. I mean, I, I know last time we spoke, we talked a bit on the air and a bit off the air about like this idea that masculinity has failed a lot of young men because they're being told that like they can't, they can't have these thoughts. they can't be the guy who's like i don't want a partner

who's had 30 other guys or i don't want a partner who doesn't have a job or i don't want a partner who doesn't want to contribute or i don't want a partner who blah blah blah right or even like the political disagreements between partners like there's there's something to be said for the the way that the messaging has like corrupted you know poisoned the well on our side of the equation and then for the women i mean damn man like i i barely ever go on instagram i have a five minute per day limit set on my phone but god damn if in those five minutes i don't see something that just drives me completely insane from some 20-year-old girl giving bad advice or saying like, you know, her Tinder's blowing up or she gets DMs really bad. I recently triggered Normie Instagram.

I'm not on there very often. And just one of the posts that pops up was this fucking video that I think is destroying the fabric of civilization, which is this whole like like here's my wonderful life as a no child 35 amazing and it's like oh doing all this shit okay the two that's a couple right isn't it and bragging no it's not even a couple just like a single woman saying this shit about and talking about how great her life is because she's 35 and doesn't have kids i'm like this is see i just conceptualized the amount of time it took her to edit the video

and i the cope was so yeah massive and uh anyway so i just made that here's here's anyone who's on the fence about fucking kids right now here's's the hard reality. If you do not have children, you will die alone. Yeah. So I made this comment on this video. You put it up there. You threw it on the – Well, actually. Well, actually.

Actually, everyone's parents die in a nursing home. Not mine. My fucking parents are not – they will never see a home my grandmother is uh partly thanks to bitcoin but also you know your family will refuse to let it happen right they'll refuse to let it not happen yeah like they you you have a duty obligation or responsibility to your parents to take care of them if they took care of you when when i totally agree on your journey growing up when you were little and useless they fucking took you every step of the way until you were ready to be on your own there was and at the end of their life they're going to be useless as well and they're going to degrade and they're going to evaporate in the same way that you uh appeared yeah and it is and this is fiat as well right because we we we the government does

not want us to respect our elders or respect their wisdom or hear their stories because they want to replace it with their own do you not think it's weird that everything grandparents say all of a sudden is characterized as like, you know, misogynistic or worse terms. All of a sudden, like everything my grandparents say is off color or off kilter or a sign of a different time. You can't have anyone who remembers what life was like with low taxes to have any credibility. No. You think that's it low taxes write them off

we can't have people saying that stuff i don't know i think you're right though i think there's like something to be said about that there's clearly an effort to like demonize anything that's not sort of the modern status quo and by the way modernity has like gone like has napalmed so many uncontroversially good things. Like the family unit's a great example of this, right? Like I'm not going to get into the politics of this because I do not want to lose my job, nor do I want to lose the podcast monetization from Spotify, the, you know, Lord and Savior Spotify. But I will just say that people who, people who look at this and think anything but, uh, intentional directed and, uh, directed, and with a different end in mind than maybe you had or your parents had, completely true.

I will also add that the parents thing is interesting to me. There's a push. I don't know if you find this, but I found this when I was younger. My wife just got here. We went through this years ago at this point. But there was a push when we were kids to move out when you're done school, right? You go to university, whatever, college, or you don't. And when you're finished school, you move out.

You get your own place. Even if it's not a nice place, even if it's not a house or a home, one of these like shoe boxes in the sky, you just leave immediately, as quickly as you can, be self-sufficient, blah, blah, blah. But the more I think about my own situation, and maybe yours too, I know my, blah. But the more I think about my own situation and maybe

yours too, I know, you know, my wife did the same thing that I did. The more I think about how good families operate, good families understand that keeping you at home or within arm's length helps with three big decisions as you get older, right? They will help you choose and flesh out your choice, you know, as well, where you work, where you live, and who you marry. Good families understand the importance of those things, and they keep you in the nest longer and make the nest inviting for you as you grow older and want independence and want things like romantic freedom and stuff like that. They will allow you to do those things, but they also contribute to making, help you make a good decision on those things.

There's not a more important decision that you make than who you marry, where you live, and where you work. And if you make that decision on your own, in a shoebox, when, like you said earlier, and as you said, since we've been sitting on the couch here, if you make that decision thinking about how you're going to survive week to week, you will make a bad decision every single fucking time yes every time the fam the family infrastructure is in insanely important and i know that many people don't have it and that's that is a horrible that is a horrible

phenomenon that is directly tied to fiat and this whole gong show. And the key reason, if you have a poor relationship with your parents, don't blame them. Blame the state. Okay. Tell me. Because that is the root of it. They have been working very hard to destroy these structures for the last hundred years. And they're succeeding.

And if you look at the statistics for broken families, it looks like they go with every other 71 graph that there that there is um for people who don't i mean everyone on the show should know but the 71 graph is everything basically breaks to the parabolic upside yeah in 71 and what i would say to anyone who um does not have that that good relationship with their with their family is either you're the problem and you should fix it, or if it is truly them that is the problem, seek godfathers, godmothers, protectors. Your own blood somewhere. Outside.

And own blood is ideal, but work with whatever you can access. And like there is no – I believe there's no success to any degree without mentorship. Nobody – you get as lucky as hard as you work, but a primary lever in that luck machine is mentorship. And, um, that, that is the role that our parents are supposed to fulfill. If they are unable to, you need to find somebody else. And there's also this thing with, uh, mentorship, which is, uh is that, oh, it's like some good friends of mine do mentorship programs with universities. And they get assigned kids going through certain programs, and they help them on their journeys. Like between 18 and 22 years old, presumably, right? Yeah, between university ages.

And it's very good. Ideally, you have mentors all your life. But what I'm saying here is that the period of time where mentorship is valuable never ends. Ever. Back with the guilds and stuff, you, you work with, you're learning a trade and you are working with a master. And if you're lucky enough, an artist, because art artist, the word completely destroyed by Fiat artist is the level about first you're, you know, you're're a you're a novice or amateur you're then you're an apprentice and then they call it uh journeyman right and then master and then artist is like the top is that right i didn't know yeah artist is the top artist is you you are a master of the piano you know and you know all the music you can play you know the finger you you are a fucking master and

you know the fucking rules of music and then you forget all that shit and play the piano that's art art that's artistry um and we fucked it up now anybody who is just incompetent and incapable of doing anything else uh calls himself an artist because of the scam going on with modern art they think that some, anyway, but that, that, that's a side thing. Mentorship does not end. You,

you, you work with the master to learn the trade until the master dies or is replaced by a different master or you, you, it, it never ends a good, a, a competent and good man never ends.

You know, you don't, you don never ends you don't so what I'm saying is if you're fucking 35, if you're 45 if you're 55 and you want to keep rolling, hopefully you got it figured out by 55 but you're always looking to improve

find someone that knows more than you and work with them and the internet has provided so many opportunities for improving your skills and getting better and everything like that but there is nothing better than someone who has already done it already knows it already understands it teaching you and like seek those out and if you're someone who has extreme skills, certainly work to pass those skills down to next. But what the whole sum of this like long winded point is the mentorship era is your entire life.

And you know, even at the end, I don't know, maybe, maybe when you're really way up there, if you've adhered to that, maybe there's a period of time where you no longer have a mentor, but but guess what that's not true because you're so old you don't have a mentor anymore because there's no one with more experience than you yeah well guess what now your mentor is

the younger yeah because they have more experience than you because they're living a different life than you yeah they're learning so the learning never stops and i think that i think i think if you anchor the only reason I've been able to do anything I've been able to do, and the only reason I'll be able to go much further than this, unless I'm killed, is through the desire to learn. Are you expecting me to be killed? No. You shouldn't be.

Anything could happen. You shouldn't be. Anything could happen. I had, this ski accident could have killed me. Dying is not the same as being killed. Yeah. Well, you never know. Anyway, continue.

So all the results in my life came directly out of pursuit of knowledge. And in fact, the feeling – some people have heroin phases that really drag them down. My heroin phase is discovering new information that is useful to my plans. The feeling of discovering new information, that is the most beautiful feeling I can imagine that is my

above orgasm experience and guess what you are not original, you are not unique and you are not special it's all in the fucking library okay

and yes you are a different color of it and you are in a different place and it's all different. And it's all, you know, this is another nuance point that many mid bell curve people can't figure out, which is that it's both at the same time. Yeah.

It's both ideas exist at the same time in contradiction and yet it still works because we cannot explain everything with a left or right or a black or white. So this is critical. It's fun for me to talk to guys like you because on this show, I talk to a lot of people who are like, you know, I'm a finance guy or I'm a macro guy, which has become a bit of a bad word, or I'm a, um, you know, mining guy or whatever. When I talked to you and I thought this the first time I spoke to you as well, I didn't tell you, I get the same feeling I get when I talk to guys like, uh, Francis or,

uh, Ben Perrin, BTC sessions. I get get the feeling, and you mentioned it, and I want to bring it up and give you some kudos. I get the feeling I'm talking to someone who's well-read, who's thought to themselves that there are disciplines outside of the one that I'm focused on that can add value to what I'm doing, right? Discovering new information that's valuable to your mission, valuable to the things you're after. This is something I think that's unique to, you know, maybe old school academia. And, you know, in the modern day, it's basically Bitcoiners and almost nowhere else. I don't see it almost anywhere. Everyone is siloed. Everyone is unwilling to look other places for expertise and support and experience. And when I talk to you, I get the

feeling like, you know, you're the opposite. Where do you, you know, where do you come down on something like, you know, looking to a discipline that you may otherwise dismiss as irrelevant for information, right? When I think about my own background is like, you know, I went to teacher's college back in the day. I still sometimes, as much as I disagree with 99% of the stuff that I learned, I still sometimes go back and draw on some of the academics of that part of my life and think, yeah, you know what? The application maybe was wrong and the intention maybe was wrong, but the skill and the idea, there's something there.

How do you, how do you square that circle? Artistry is tough, especially for you, because you probably don't agree with a lot of other people, even in your silo, but outside of your silo, the agreement's got to be even fewer and far between. Yeah. The, the, on, on the comment of not being special, the end of that is the information is out there and it is available. And no matter how unique your experience, you may think it is, there is a bazillion parallels that fit. Even in a text from 1404, you don't know. How often do we hear one of the books that everyone claims to have read but no one actually has, Meditations, Marcus Aurelius, reads as if it was written today. It reads like it was written today by Francis or someone of similar caliber.

And so you kind of realize that everything is different, but it's exactly the same. The issues that Aurelius wrote about are no different than what we deal with today so this is pretty i don't know if this is going to touch with anybody but it's all it's all the same that okay business is all the fucking same it's identical every single fucking business is identical right uh you provide good or service for capital. Okay. Anything outside of that is probably some very weird fiat stuff. But even that is you're providing a service or some kind of good for capital. So I studied fashion in my post-secondary school. I studied fashion from cotton fields to merchandising windows. And that was the business I learned.

I know every step of the fashion process. process to manage from managing tractors in the fields to harvest silk or or whatever the raw materials mm-hmm the crossover of information from the fashion business into the Bitcoin business, into banking business, into real estate development business, into product development business. It's the same, man. And it's completely different, but it's the same. Because the information that you acquire from understanding one flow of business to its core and every single component of it,

what you have done is you have not understood the fashion business, you have understood business. And so when you look at anything else that you want to do in your life, there is this tie. It's like a tie. It's like a boat tie of information that you can always kind of pin everything you learn to. A common thread.

And it builds out on that. Every single person I speak to, assuming they're not a clone, has some value to give. Because the solution – I did how many years of art school? Way too many. And what is the only valuable lesson I got out of art school? The only thing I learned out of what would it have been? Well, I guess if you count like the elementary and, you know, because they have art classes. I was fortunate enough to have that where I was at into the, you know, the picture disappears behind the pen. Because the pen or paintbrush or device you're working with on the picture is not transparent. So you rotate the painting so that you can see what you're doing. Sure.

It's a, it's a shortcut in time to just plow through and operate blind for a few seconds to get back around to where you can see where the pen or the brush touches. I do is rotate. So, so someone say, be like,

that is, that's one fucking lesson that took me 15 years to learn. Well, now you know. And this is like a little thing. And now you can break that down into, okay, you can't see through the fucking pen. You think you can, but you can't see through that fucking pen. So where in your supply chain business or where in your whatever business where is that moment where where's that moment for you it's like you you there is something that you're doing that you're fucking up on you know what i mean it's

like so i'm kind of meandering here because this guinness has a harp painted on it and it's uh it's a good point though madex like everyone everyone has these little quips of wisdom that work in one silo that work in others there's a saying i don't remember what it is but the broad strokes of it you know not to use an art metaphor the the broad strokes are basically like once you understand how things work broadly you see it everywhere you look and especially making money like every baller i've ever met and had the good fortune to spend time with, how the fuck do you do what you do? Tell me about your business. Tell me about this.

Tell me about... If they're willing to talk about it. Obviously, some people don't want to talk about it, right? That's fine. But if someone's willing to talk about it, I'm like, please explain to me in every fucking detail how i i want to know every i want to understand every level of the shawarma business okay well shout out ali there and uh you know my plan is like i will have a a great relationship with this man outside of uh of this but uh my goal is to learn how the fucking shawarma business works. Not because I want to run a shawarma business,

but because Ali has a lesson for me that could be a critical step in the growth of Madex. Yeah. And I guess this is, to sum this all

up, because it's all kind of all... Every person that's not a clone has an opportunity that To sum this all up, because it's all kind of all... Every person that's not a clone has an opportunity that has a lesson and has, you could say, has a reason if you're a predetermined kind of person, that they're there and speaking to you. And you're never... It's mining. It's like, it's breakthrough thought mining

in those conversations with people who are also... And the same thing is that I may say something to Ali that changes his business forever. For sure. One sentence could take from me at some undetermined time in the future could be a change from, you know, 40 locations to 140 locations. He's going to do it regardless. It might not be me, but it could, he's going to find,

he's going to find what he needs to get to that next level. Cause he's a producer and a builder and maker. Same way with me, with Madex. And that's what I'm searching for because I'm in my maze to get to, to build what I want to exist. And along that path, the information, we know the like you let your subconscious think about it and the idea strikes you in the shower. Okay, if that doesn't work, then try talking to someone.

It's like share what you're thinking about and listen to what they're talking about and solve their problems. And it's all, so I don't, we're, these are important skills and it's why you should never, you should always listen to somebody and hear what they have to say.

And yes, you got to do filtration because you can't listen to 8 billion humans' opinions and stories and you have to select for what is important to your goals in the time. But don't think because somebody works in a business that is a bazillion miles away from yours that there is not a serious lesson. It's like treasure hunting. They're little gifts, man. When someone speaks a sentence that hits hard oh you gotta write oh okay just started talking about success for some reason but um one of my most this this is how it works

you ever just kind of have like a really fucking amazing idea yeah you get a really fucking good idea like a really good business idea or a really good, right? Yeah. Well, the difference between you and people who are successful are they kind of just write it down. Anyway, no, I phrased it like that. But it is true, though. Because it makes sense like that. I don't mean you, Joey, obviously. I know, I know, I know.

But literally, like, the difference is that they kind of just wrote the fucking thing down because i have genius ideas constantly but if i don't write them down they're gone for sure forever disappear yeah yeah they're ever and forever so when you get that knowledge bomb that egg that piece of information from someone you're talking to, something you're reading, some experience you're going through, record that shit, and reviewing it is good, but even the act of recording it, writing a note in your phone, writing it by hand. Yeah, helps burn it in.

Right? Helps burn it in. Yeah, yeah. You know? There's no doubt. It gives you a tie back to find that information, right? But we can kind of move off of this section we should we should wrap up i have a a beer i have to go attend at 4 30 with uh another podcaster uh in the area but i want to maybe you know on a light note um my wife's been very quiet she's like preparing for what i think

is probably coming to this other beer she She's coming to the steak dinner tonight. I assume I'll see you there. Yes. Do you have any advice for, is your girlfriend coming tonight? Yes. Okay. So there won't be, it's just not going to be a bunch of guys shooting the shit about the downfall of Fiat and talking about how much they hate the state.

That's what we're doing right now. Yeah. What advice do you have for the women at the steak dinner tonight? The women at the steak dinner? Yeah. Hold your man close what's that some shit some head shaking going on from the bathroom there um it's been a pleasure to talk to you again uh i've appreciated getting to know you over the last year i have to say i get a chance like i said to talk to a lot of people i think you're a bit of a sort of psychological vagabond.

You have no home in a lot of ways. And yet you found your home in Bitcoin with a lot of people who want the best things for themselves and think that you are producing some of the best things in the art space and the Bitcoin space. So thank you once again for coming. Tell people where they can find out more about what you're doing and who you are.

Thank you. The goal of what I'm doing is who you are. Uh, thank you. Um, the goal of what I'm doing is to bring more creators into the space. Um, more. I want, I just want the success of made X to be a signal to come into the, into the space.

Um, so maybe listen this back and write some shit down, take some notes. If you're on your, and if you're already on your journey and you're secured, I hope you got something that you can plug in right away. Um, madex.art,

bullbitcoin.com. Fuck yeah. And space at space bowl on Twitter. And Joey, it's, I really appreciate this. It was great. It was great.

Appreciate the time. I appreciate you. Um, you didn't even go three hours today. It's only an hour and 15 minutes today. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not even going to push it because we've got other places to be. That's right. Until next time, everyone.

Take care of yourselves. Fucking good job. Great fucking job.