The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP - Mark Jeftovic - The Bull Market, Privacy Erosion, Governments and Bitcoin

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES This week, we welcome back Mark Jeftovic - Mark is the founder of EasyDNS, author of The Bitcoin Capitalist Letter, purveyor and editor of Bombthrower.com, and now also offers The Crypto Hedge Report on Substack - a busy man! From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com ⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase. Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. D-Central Technologies - https://d-central.tech/ Your home for all things mining! Whether you need a new unit, a unit repaired, some support with software, or you want to start your own wife-friendly home mining operation, the guys at D-Central Tech are ready to help. With industry leading knowledge and expertise, let the D-Central team help you get started mining the hardest money on Earth.

Friends and enemies, welcome back. CBP, Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Just me tonight with a friend of the show, guest, and IRL friend, Mark Jeftovic. You guys know him, the bomb thrower, sponsor of the program. He's been a friend to Len and I for quite some time now. He's been doing a lot of writing, a lot of thinking, a lot of probably internal monologuing, we'll find out tonight, about the state of affairs in Bitcoin, state of affairs in politics, probably the state of affairs in Canada, and maybe the state of affairs in the next 10 or 12 years. I'm sure that we've all been thinking about that. It'll be good to get Mark's thoughts.

It's been a while since he's been on. I think the last time he appeared on CBP was right here in this room about nine months ago. A lot has changed in nine months. I've had a couple of interesting debates, a presidential campaign gone awry, among other things. So we'll talk about all that tonight. But first, as always, the sponsors.

Mark is actually the first sponsor. I didn't think about that. I should have let him do the read. But EZDNS is the Friendly Neighborhood Registrar. You can get all your domain hosting there. You can get all your email stuff done there when you get a domain. Actually, I'm looking for a domain for a sub stack I'm starting called the end of fiat. I have to think of a suffix for the domain, maybe.xyz, maybe.io, maybe.cash. I don't know. I got to think about it,

but I'm going to do it through Mark when I do it. And the reason I'm doing that is because one, it's easy. Two, it's the most cost-efficient way to get a domain. And three, it's just a great service. We use the EasyDNS platform along with their Easy WordPress stuff for canadianbitcoiners.com where there's a new blog today that I wrote this morning on my second coffee, I think before 7.30 a.m. on just the absolute gong show of a debate last night and the sort of fall of the legacy media and the presidential debate as a medium so go check that out and if you want to start something uh maybe

you're looking for some bitcoin stuff virtual private server stuff available with mark as well you want to do a node you want to do an officer relay all that stuff btc pay server um he can help you with it i know he can help you with it because one he uses it and two he offers it so go over easy dns.com cbp media is the code you get half off your first round of buys which is unbeatable second sponsor bull bitcoin you guys know him you love him francis and the team the best bitcoin exchange on the planet why few reasons easy ones really bitcoin only extremists on staff there. Okay. In the best way, um, probably, uh, a hair shy of being stopped in the airport, but a good football field past being the weirdest guy at a barbecue, which is great. It's exactly where you want to be as a Bitcoiner. Uh, trust me, I think a bunch of us are probably there myself included. So those guys are great.

You can buy there. It's non-custodial. Don't have to worry about getting rugged. Send it right to your wallet. It's all batched and privacy features are attached to each transaction, which you got to love. And then if you want to live on the Bitcoin standard, you can do that too. They have bills as a platform there. It's not just buying gift cards, which you can do, but it's also stuff like paying your mortgage, paying your taxes, all the stuff we hate in Bitcoin. You can do it there with your Bitcoin. Now, this tax implications, as Len likes to say, I'm not going to say there's not. I'm not going to say there is.

But I will say that in your jurisdiction, you should find out before you spend your Bitcoin what the requirements are. Go to bullbitcoin.com. Use the code. It's in the link. Most of you guys are already signed up. But just in case you're not, go there for $21. All you have to do is sign up and start buying, which is great.

You can't beat that. Who doesn't want $20 free? $20 will probably get you from here to the gas station where you can spend $200 on a tank of gas, which is nice. And the third sponsor, our newest friends here at Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast, Decentral Tech. Decentral Tech is wife-friendly mining, as I like to say. We have like a 95% male audience. If you're one of the females, it's husband or no-coiner-friendly mining, as I like to say. We have like a 95% male audience. If you're one of the females, it's husband or no-coiner-friendly mining.

I don't know. You can go there and get the world-famous Bidax, soon to be offered with CBP branding. There's a limited run of 75. I think a bunch of them are going to be spoken for real fast, if not all of them. But keep an eye on my Twitter feed, Len's Twitter feed, and, excuse me, of course, the CBP Discord, where Jonathan from Decentral Tech is keeping us

updated on the latest and greatest in the CBP branded bid acts. But on top of that, if you have a S21 or you have one of these other sort of industrial heavier duty miners, Jonathan, the boys can help you get that thing up and running. They can repair for you. They can sell you parts. They can sell you an apparatus in which you can put a miner to heat your home or make it look cool. The possibilities around this in Bitcoin mining, but I know one thing, we have to decentralize away from all these industrial mining setups, all the publicly traded miners. There was a time and a place for these things when we were coming up. We may still be coming up in some regard, but I think that now is the time to get more miners back in the homes of the plebs, which is what we're trying to do. We're partnering with Decentral. No promo code, no nothing. Go there, buy a miner, tell them we sent you if they ask.

I don't even know if they ask. And do your part, man. If you haven't seen a bit yet, by the way, it's got to be one of the slickest things in Bitcoin. I have some slick Bitcoin gadgets like the Q, the cold card, BlockClock. I'm naming a lot of CoinKite products there. They're not a sponsor of the show, but maybe someday we can work something out. But the BidAxe, man, I think that one is going to take the cake, honestly. And I'm planning on getting a few. Don't tell my wife.

I'll let you guys know how that goes. So Mark is not in his chair right now. Oh, there he is. He just sat back down. Good timing there, Bomb Thrower. You just leave for the ads, come right back. That's outstanding. People probably do that when they listen to the show. They walk out of the room for the ads and then come back and sit down. What's going on, man? First of all, I should thank you because as i mentioned on monday showed everyone who's listening and watching we had a cancellation um mike campbell took a fall needed some surgeries little dinged up couldn't do the show so thank you mark for coming on you're on mute by the way so make sure you unmute yourself before you start uh you know welcoming yourself to the program. Hey, Joey, I wasn't skipping the ads. I went to grab my bid

ax. It just, how's that? How's that thing? Look, it's so cool. It like lights up in here when it's going. It is like, I've got a helium miner that like I had to unplug because it makes this little buzzy sound that drives me nuts in my office. But this thing is like, just runs, like it's just on autopilot. It, you can't hear it. My only complaint is I've had it plugged in for almost a week and I haven't mined a single solo block yet. So like, what's up, man? I don't get it, but it's pretty weird.

It's all for the cause, you know? So, uh, what pool do you have appointed to, or's up, man? I don't get it, but it's pretty weird. It's all for the cause, you know? So, uh, what pool do you have appointed to, or do you have it solo? And it's called bomb acts. And it's like, you know, if it just one day hits the lottery, uh, it will go down in history, but I'm going to pick up a couple more. Um, just, just to have around, you know, now I don't want to, I don't want to give away the gambit here but i saw it in your newsletter that you did write that your daughter emily went away to

university last i checked dorm rooms don't charge you electric so have you yeah we could stick like some some minors in m's dorm who's actually uh i won't out her she's in the chat right now, actually. And yeah, maybe she can recruit her whole floor to just chain together a bunch of bid axes. Do you think this is a good idea? Listen, I don't know what universities put up with these days. It seems to me a lot less than they did 10 years ago. But I'm not sure that mining would be one of the things that they'd get upset about. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's how I, I have some GPUs that like we still

easy DNS has been a virtual company since 2019, but we still have this really tiny office nearby that the bookkeeper uses and the electricity is included in the lease so i've got like a few gpus in there that i just kind of like run and they mine like some shit coin sorry to say it on the air and then it's just like i i have this ap this script that hits the trade over api and just flips it into bitcoin right and it's just like... That's a strong output. I have to get a miner going in here, a bid act specifically. I got a message, Jonathan, maybe after the show I will. But let's get into it here, Mark.

Where do I want to start? I named the episode after your recent letter came out, I think maybe a week ago now. This is probably a date on this. September 7th, so not quite a week ago. Putting the recent crypto carnage into perspective, Bitcoin's bull run is intact and ahead of schedule. Tell me a bit about this. This is, by the way, available on Bomb Thrower. It is not the paid Bitcoin capitalist letter. This one is free of charge

with some good charts, some good tweets. And your thoughts on, I guess you're not worried about the price action. I mean, I don't think a lot of Bitcoiners, a big, like hardcore Bitcoiners are too worried about price, but the newcomers maybe would be. So tell me a bit about this, um, this letter you penned here. Yeah, I guess if it's your first cycle, you're probably freaking a little bit, but, uh, you know, you're like what class of 2017 or 20, I can't remember. But, you know, if it's not your first rodeo, it all comes down to what happened after the halving, right? So, and in this case, what happened before the halving? So, I think what threw everybody for a loop was we put two all-time highs before the halving,

which has never sort of happened before. And everybody was convinced that, you know, the ETFs came and that was going to be a huge catalyst. And then all time high got put, two of them got printed before the halving. So that was going to be a huge catalyst. And we just thought it was going to be up only through the whole summer. But when you look at previous halvings, there's always been this kind of denouement after the halving, especially for the mining stocks, right? If you look at the charts and there was never as many miners as there is today, but they just really cratered for, I don't have the exact numbers because I'm terrible with

remembering numbers, but like six to eight weeks to a few months, like it just goes terrible. Now we're heading into what's traditionally the strongest quarter of the year for Bitcoin. October is around the corner and, you know, we'll see what happens. I mean, it's, you know, investor people are always quick to say, you know, it's a pattern and patterns aren't guaranteed to repeat, but there is this mathematical four-year algo hard-coded into how all this works that does create this kind of ebb and flow of supply and demand, supply shock dynamics. So it's not totally unrealistic to say we're probably going to mimic, you know mimic rhyme with previous halving cycles. And then there's all these fundamental catalysts underneath it.

I mean, that's just always where I kind of end up. It's like, well, do you think that the central banks of the world are going to stop printing money? I don't. I don't think they can. Do you think interest rates are going to find a market clearing rate? I don't think they can. There's too much debt. So it's that central bankers painting themselves into a corner that we all know is there and is really coming home to roost that is always ultimately

putting that floor underneath. And then the last thing I'll say about it is on this cycle, and it's been observed by many others other than myself, is that retail isn't even in the game right now. It's all institutional. They're doing it through the ETF, so be it. But the point is, it's all institutional so far, and there's very little retail participation in this cycle. It's funny, I'm getting comments here from friends of mine about the things you're saying. I have a couple of follow-ups. The one that is most interesting to me is this four-year cycle. In Bitcoin, we call it the halving.

In regular world, it's called the US election. Yeah, true, eh? Well, this is the thing that I'm curious about. And I know you mentioned to Len and I, and it's in the note here as well. And you've mentioned it before. There's a sort of widely accepted correlative relationship between Bitcoin and the S&P, specifically the NASDAQ, let's say, the Qs. And a lot of people would point out that whether you think Bitcoin is the future of the monetary regime around the world or not, right now you're high beta tech, basically. If you look at the chart, this is where you sit. Now, after presidential elections, the S&P

has mixed performance. But to your point, what's traditionally always a strong quarter for the market is that first back half of Q4 after the presidential election. And it seems to be strong for us too. Is it fair, you think, to say that the real meteor that hits the price of Bitcoin and makes the thing move is the election and not actually the having? Is the having the thing that is priced in and the election the thing that's not priced in, I've been giving this some thought. I don't have like a lot of data on it, but just looking over the last couple of days at performance and you know, it's not just the S and P by the way, it's global markets too, because the U S is sort of the stalwart, right?

That's the pillar around which most of the global financial system operates and orbits. I don't know. Do you have a view on that? What do you say? It's funny because I just started working on the mid-month portfolio edition of the Bitcoin Capitalist today. And the title of this month's issue is, does it really matter who wins the US election? And in that sense, and we can go into why it it doesn't matter, but the election matters, right?

I think that's where we are. The elections count, but it doesn't really matter who wins it. It's just that this is happening. And so the entire world focuses on this, and everybody is working on, I mean, I hate to speak of they in these sort of euphemistic, all catching words, but everyone's trying to keep these plates spinning in the air and they're trying to keep the system on the rails. And there's a way that they think that happens with stability. And there's a way there's this threat of disruption that everyone's trying to avoid. And so what does that mean? It means like, we're going to try and goose the economy. We're going to try and like bribe voters. We're going to try and do all these things that are like catalysts for Bitcoin. And the biggest one of them all is rate cuts. And that's the one thing that I've been trying to think about lately is, has that already been priced in? How much of rate cuts been priced in? So now it's like

the big debate is, will it be 25 basis points or 50 at the next FOMC meeting? And I've been like, for backdrop, I've been saying in the letter for months now, the rate hike cycle is over right globally it's done right canada's already cutting bank of england cut uh ecb cut uh the only bank who's tried to raise rates was the jcb uh trying to come off zero with the 25 basis point and the entire economy globally shit the bed. And it was like, okay, we're never going to do that again until the economy can handle it, which I keep joking is going to be never because the economy can't handle it. So even when they talk about, well,

you know, we still have to raise at some point that sends this speed wobble through the whole global financial system. So clearly these guys are stuck. They cannot raise. How much of that, how much of this run in Bitcoin from call it, you know, the bottom of 2022, December, early January 23 till now was this realization. I've been calling it a slow motion pivot the whole way through, but now that they've basically said, we're going to do it. How much of that is priced in? And I really don't know. I don't have an answer for it because I guess it's going to be what's the tempo. What's the cadence going to be? I don't, I don't, I hesitate to call myself smart money.

Maybe you're smart money. I don't know, but I hesitate to call myself smart money maybe you're smart money i don't know but i hesitate to call myself that and i think one thing that i've been thinking a lot about and saying on twitter and some like significantly sized finn twitter accounts like will like the tweet once in a while the rate cut used to be the first piece of the easing cycle right once the rate cuts came you could count on easy money because the economy would slow down. And these things have been pretty steady the last, I don't know, 30 years, whatever it's been. Now, I think the smart money knows that the rate cut is actually the last ingredient to all of this. And so if you can wait out a rate cut, then you basically do anything

you can to wait out a rate cut. And by the way, you kind of see that in markets, equity, real estate, or Bitcoin. Crypto broadly even, I think is probably true as well, although I don't follow a lot of the garbage tokens. But I think Ethereum is holding up fairly well against the US dollar. I know Bitcoin is obviously. What I see there is the Federal Reserve specifically, since they're arguably the only bank that matters, although you did mention Japan there as well for different reasons, but let's leave that for now. They're going to cut into a sticky-ish inflation number that came out today in some of their core metrics. The S&P at a near all-time high, residential real estate,

even in America, climbing quickly, gold at an all-time, like all these things, there's never been a situation like this. And so I kind of, again, like I'm admitting here that I may be missing something, but you tell me. I kind of laugh when I see the big fence, guys like Jim Bianco or Mike Green, or even guys like Eric Townsend, who often takes sort of a distant stance to all these things, talking about more commodity markets and equity markets. Everyone seems to laugh at the idea that this time might be different. But when I look at it, I see a lot of differences. Do you see the same differences or am I way off base on that? Yeah. I think with every one of these cycles,

I mean, you can go back as far as you want, like 2008, you know, Raoul Paul says that was like the sort of seminal shift. Like the world went into never be the same again after the 2008 policy response. You can say 2001, 2000. You can say LTCM. You can go all the way back to 1971, right? It's always been that kicking the can down the road, but at a greater order of magnitude. So like each policy response cycle brings a bigger crisis next time down the road and everybody all the financial contrarians you know the people that you and i came up reading

and uh and and now sort of like tweet with and whatever we've all said it's unsustainable but eventually sooner like one of my favorite quotes of all time was Douglas Casey, who said, just because something is inevitable doesn't make it imminent. Right. So that was that was true for 50 years. Right. Like, oh, you can't keep printing money. You can't keep racking up debt. But it doesn't mean that the global financial system is going to fall apart imminently. But now we're kind of imminently is closer, eventually is closer. And that's that sense of this time it's different because, I mean, we've all been astounded at how far policymakers and central banks have been able to blow up these bubbles. We thought they can never add never add you know you can't go from four trillion to eight trillion trillion dead every 50 days you can't you can't do that like it just you just

can't do it it can't keep going forever and yet it does it keeps going it keeps going it keeps going but to your point this time it's like the like when the fed is going into an easing cycle when CPI is even officially at 3%, right? That's flashing bright red light. The system is held together with spit and twist ties and it's all coming unglued underneath. And they do these reverse repo things and this stuff with Fed speak that nobody understands. And you know something is up. And so now they're going to start cutting rates with the stock market at all-time highs and gold at all-time highs.

And really, you're really going to do that? So that just means something is up. Something can't continue. And they're basically just pulling all the levers they can. And so, you know, what remains to be seen after this U.S. rate cut cycle starts is what's the QE going to look like? Right. Because there's going to be some some everybody is on to the game right of just doing this qe and then there was that nuriel ruby rubani rubani rubani dr rubini yeah he's a no coiner and he's a shit coiner because he's got that stable coin but um he wrote that paper he co-authored that paper saying like

this is kind of stealth qe with the treasury is now doing right. Playing with the with the yield curve. And so they're going to come up with these other ways to do it. There's going to be yield curve control and stuff like that. And it's really just going to be like, yeah, something is up. This time is different in the sense that something is up. And even though on the surface with the markets, the financial markets at all time highs, but I've always said it's not the financial markets you have to look at because I don't think the central banks really care about the financial markets.

It's the debt markets. When those start coming unglued, that's when it's all hands on deck. So debt by debt markets, you mean like treasuries? So bonds, credit, like all of that. So, so what, so what this is, I asked this yesterday, watching that debate yesterday, you know, you and I were talking a little bit during the debate. I watched probably half of it before I just had to tap out and go to bed. But I asked myself yesterday, listening to those two clowns, who is buying US debt at any term, at any rate? What sort of methamphetamines do you have to be on to hit the desk after watching that debate and

go, I got to load up on US debt denominated in US dollars. This is a country that looks stable. Yeah, I'm buying 30-year paper right now. I wish I could go 50. Who is doing that? I don't know. But I guess the question I have for you then is like, what has to happen for that to stop?

This is the question that all of us are asking ourselves. Is it that the currency is debased too quickly and the rate no longer matters because you just cannot outpace the debasement? Is it instability in the White House? Is it American Civil War? It seems to me like we're close to all these things. Guys like Martin Armstrong have been saying for years, look, 2030, 2032, it's going to get hairy in the U S and Canada and other places. I, at first I read that guy. I'm like, this guy is a bit much.

People love this kind of stuff. They'll subscribe to it and they'll read it and they'll share it. Honestly, Mark, like I, I wouldn't bet against any of that now watching these guys last night and seeing what's happening here what do you think the the the thing is what is the straw that's going to break the camel's back it's always something no one sees coming like you know that you know it's going to be something but then it just like who would have thought a 25 basis point hike in the Bank of Japan?

It was less than that, actually. I think it was 15. No, I think what it was is they were expected to do 10 basis points and they did 25. So that Delta of 15 basis points wiped, what was the number? Like $5 trillion? It was a lot. That was a nuke everywhere you looked that night yeah yeah yeah it's like whoa do you remember we were having lunch on the patio near your place yeah we were like just watching everything it was sunday so it was basically two things to watch is that not in Ethereum and it was just plummeting. Is that not incredible though, Mark?

Like you and me are having lunch at the Collins or where we're, no, Thirsty Cactus in Dundas. Okay. I'm watching my net worth dwindle to zero slowly. Okay. And there's a guy playing like Oasis as poorly as Oasis has ever been played. And a bunch of people chowing down on hamburgers and chicken fingers. No one even fucking knew. No one cares.

No one's paying attention. This is the thing that drives me nuts there's the answer to your question joey who is buying u.s 10-year paper their mutual fund advisor chicken finger everybody else on that patio's pension fund was buying the u.s paper yeah yeah right maybe that's that's not a bad point i mean well i i appreciate and honestly i think now maybe even envy those people a little bit to just be on the patio you know the most difficult decision you're making as the world is collapsing is whether to dip your last dinosaur shaped chicken nugget in the cheddar sauce or the barbecue sauce truly in existence worth living and like you know I don't know what the memes are like on dinosaur chicken finger Twitter, but I guarantee they're not as good as Bitcoin Twitter's memes. I'll never, I'll never know. I love that. You know, you go, if you go down swinging,

you're going down with your friends, which is nice. Okay. So let's, let's get off Bitcoin. One of the other things I had listed here to talk to you about, because you are a man who lives the digital life, you obviously write the Access of Easy newsletter with a few of your colleagues there at EasyDNS. And Len and I do that show. I want to talk about what's going on in the world of digital privacy. And you and I have not spoken directly about this. I've seen kind of and gathered what some of your thoughts might be judging by the newsletter. But, you know, tell me a bit about where you're coming down on stuff like the Dura of arrest on stuff like the new bills in Canada, like C18, C11, all these things. C63, I think,

is the other one. And the general it seems clamps that are coming for twitter people in the uk talking about you know there is a precedent for us to arrest elon musk uh kamala harris kamala sutra as i like to call her saying that there is a way for us to shut down twitter he's sharing hate speech and misinformation and all these things what do you make of all this? Is this something people should be concerned? I mean, the chicken finger enjoyers, they're not concerned, but what about like people like me and you, should we be concerned about this? Is it just talk? Is it bark and no bite? What is it? It's, I mean, it's definitely concerning, right? Especially if you

were not in a coma during COVID and you saw what happened. Fortunately, that woke so many people up that I think it's ignited a counterculture, a counter move that will eventually overpower these initiatives, right? It's the age old centralization versus decentralization. And what I always say is the central, the forces for centralization will not go down without a fight. Like they're not going to go down. They're going to go down swinging, but they are going to go down. Right. I think we're headed for this period in life and I and depending on my mood depending what's what kind of whether I'm an optimistic or a pessimistic mood I'm somewhere between nation states as we understand them today are becoming less relevant over time totally agree right and so they will do this thing but we're sort of like going into this

snow crash sovereign individual world and that's going to be like a complete um it's going to be bizarro verse especially for the chicken finger crew on the patio but uh it's going to be disorienting and it's going to be like anxiety inducing and it's going to be unstable and volatile. But there's this overall sort of directional impetus to just, you know, the rational optimist, just overall improvement in the human condition. And then in my more pessimistic days, I think we are going to have 70% of the world, 60 to 70% of the world is going to go full collectivist for a generation, a generation and a half, two generations know, most people are going to be living in an Ayn Rand novel, uh, We the Living to be specific, right? I've never seen such, uh, widespread, um, clamoring for collectivism and communism in the West. Uh, you know, it's the one thing I told my daughter if she's still in the chat you know she

says like is there anything if i've ever did anything that you would be like be really angry at me i said if you came home from university a communist that would be like anything else is fair game so it's it's interesting you know the the call for collectivism, I think, is at the very least misinformed and in the worst interpretation, intentionally destabilizing. I say that for two reasons. One is that I think just, Mark, a lot of people, like you mentioned, don't understand what they're asking for when they say, I want everyone to have an equal opportunity to own a home. You don't understand the mechanisms that you're asking for, the levers that you're demanding are held in place against the forces of nature, against the forces of markets in order for that

to happen. That's number one. The second thing that, and sort of along the lines of more destabilizing, as you mentioned there, there's been, I think, either, I think unintentionally, I've kind of actually taken to your point of view about this whole they, I try not to say they, there's been a number of actions over the last, let's say, 15 or 20 years minimum that have led people to destitute situations. In Canada, I mean, you and I are both in Canada, Southern Ontario. There's more tents than Algonquin Park used to see in an entire summer at basically every major park in every major Canadian city these days. And because of that, those people are no longer concerned about things in the future. They're only concerned about things in the future. They're only concerned about things in the present. And so they will always vote to support themselves in the short term, even if it guarantees their long-term demise.

And that's something I said before on the show, and I think that's a good way to put it. Now, my big concern for the next, let's say, two years in Canada and the United States is that there's going to be so much enthusiasm for these handouts, specifically in the U.S. Because I think, honestly, Mark, I think Harris is going to win over there. And I think that if she wins, there's going to be so much enthusiasm for the handouts and no regard for the future for most of that voter base that they're going to go gang busters. They're going to go balls to the wall and give everybody this $25,000 for homes, student loan forgiveness, student debt forgiveness, cheaper university, subsidized healthcare, subsidized education, you name it. Whatever your flavor of communism is, you name it, and you're going to

see it over there. My big concern is that there's going to be no coming back from that for the states. And for us, we may go the other way in our next election, but there's no stopping some of these trains once they start going. And so I guess the natural sort of question for you is why don't governments at least show a little finesse on the way down the toilet? Instead of just pretending that giving all this money away has no impact at all, why don't they say, look, look at the debt, look at the costs. There's a decision to be made here or a slowing of these handouts that needs to happen before we can continue destroying the currency or whatever. There seems to be no

finesse in any of this stuff. Is it because the voter base just doesn't get it? Part of me thinks that. Part of me thinks that they don't care. The governments, I should say, don't care. And the other thing I think too, and I'm kind of rambling at this point, but the other thing I think too is when people say that governments are pro-Bitcoin, when I see the ETFs in the States getting a rubber stamp, even with some hesitation from the US government, I just think these things cannot exist together. These policies plus Bitcoin, these policies plus any kind of sound money. There's something going on behind the scenes.

This is my pessimistic view. There's something going on behind the scenes that I don't like anymore. And it's hard for me to ignore that these things can't coexist. So I don't, you know, I don't even have a question, but what are your thoughts on all that? Well, first, one thing is you always have to wait and see what a politician does versus what they say they're going to do. There's a great book I read called Fishing for Fools by a famous author. I can't remember. The name escapes me right now. But he basically said, you know, politicians will tell the public what they need to tell them to get elected. But what they will do is what they tell the donor class, right, to get the money by the messaging to the public.

So you almost have to tune out the messaging to the public, right? And you have to focus on what they are telling the donor class, right? I mean, during the 2016 election, it was very public. Like Hillary Clinton was giving these these speeches to like ten thousand dollar a plate fundraisers, you know, on Wall Street telling them like this is what I'm going to do. Trump seized on that and said, look, she's just, it's just going to be same old, same old. Right. And he promised to drain the swamp and he didn't. And, you know, so will she, and then, and then Kamala is kind of looking at all this and saying, like, you've seen her shift her policies because she sort of sees which way the wind is blowing so in terms of bitcoin and cryptos like i've never seen a party sort of about face as fast as the dnc did this

summer after nashville yeah right and then and still like um actually, when BlackRock, I mean, it's Larry Fink, and we all have our opinions on him. But let's face it. He basically said, we're going into Bitcoin. And the US government said, okay. And I always said in the newsletter, what I think happened to Fink was his high net worth investors, right? His high net worth clients said to Fink, we're going into Bitcoin and you're either going to give us access or we're going to get access someplace else. So, you know, his favorite phrase was forcing behaviors. And I've been using that as a mantra all year long.

It's like, yeah, Larry, Larry got his ass forced. Right. By the market fundamentals pushing towards Bitcoin. So all of that happened. Suddenly Kamala is a gun owning frack loving redneck, right? Who's backed by Dick Cheney. Does she have a redneck accent or does she only alternate between like the uh standard southern accent and the white uh politician accent does she have that one down

i dropped off the debate after i didn't even last three minutes and i just sat down in my armchair and read a book instead but um but uh but can these things coexist? Yes, they can coexist. It's, it's my scenario for that. My mental model for that is, is the great bifurcation scenario, right? The monetary apartheid. This is where CBDCs are going to come in. This is like most of the population and they're going to, half of that is going to even want this is going to want

this collectivist modern monetary theory based cbdc that sort of rations their carbon footprint and limits how many burgers they can eat a month and you know gives them bonus points for euthanizing their dog and uh and then people with actual wealth will be holding bitcoin and i'm sorry to say maxi's like other crypto assets they're gonna be better than dollars for sure i think a lot of them yeah absolutely right who wants who wants a declining fiat currency no no nobody does and i think more more people are realizing that like you and me are bitcoin guys but i i can't i've said this before on the show like it i don't own ethereum but like if you were gonna own something that wasn't bitcoin the list of things you'd rather own before dollars is growing by the day and you know it's hard to

it's hard to argue with that even in some of these cases where the tokens or the the currencies or whatever are somewhat decentralized or have a foundation like i still trust them more than i trust the u.s government uh i think they have the ethos exists maybe they'll be corrupted down the road i don't know that's kind of what i'm betting on being in bitcoin that that you know corruption will will get to them but it's interesting that the decline of the the decline of the importance of the nation state is something i think about sometimes. And I think I've made the case to you or to Len the u.s government like bureaucratic establishment there's really no doubt there's really no doubt who it is right and as these guys grow and grow they have all your information they control the flow of news the flow of of media it's all going

through these same channels and the government is just trying to like move the funnel sometimes to suit their needs, but they no longer have their collar on really any of these dogs, right? They're just hoping that when they hold the treat out, the dogs come. But at some point the dogs will realize that the treats are in the kitchen and there's as many of them as they want. And the owner giving them one at a time is no longer enough to keep them in line. I think that's the direction we're probably going. Yeah. Well, let's rewind a couple of years. So you remember Facebook when Facebook was called Facebook and they had, uh, they were going to come out with their own cryptocurrency called deal. And what I always used to say at the time that sort of illustrated, that was like the emergence of, of a network state, right?

So if you are using your Facebook ID and you're going to be on this DM wallet, suddenly your Facebook account is more important to your day-to-day life than your US password. Great point. Right? So that the state department and various government agencies rat fucked Facebook really good. And they got the hell out of there. And then Silvergate picked up the Diem intellectual property. And then Silvergate got screwed by Liz Warren's anti-crypto army. So the nation state government kind of won that round.

But I think it put the writing on the wall, right? That all you have to have is some app and maybe Facebook was too centralized to pull it off. And so maybe the next app that pulls it off, maybe telegram was in a position to pull. They tried, right. They tried. And so maybe there's something else out there like, you know, cough, cough, Noster, whatever, you know, cough, cough, Noster, whatever, you know, that will suddenly come up with this peer-to-peer exchange of value and decentralized identity and data storage and

transmission that will suddenly be so widely accepted that that's more important to a given member of that community than their national passport is, you know? And I was, I was on a video call with an online notary from the States a few weeks ago, and she lived in New York state and she had never been to Canada, you know? And I'm like, how is that even possible? The Louis Black joke, you know, like even like how is that even possible the lewis the lewis black joke you know like even drunk on a bet you make it to canada right but it's like there are people that never leave their country's borders ever yeah right so then suddenly you've got this uh you've got this even it's a yubi key or a thumb drive or just a brain wallet that suddenly has this other thing that you're getting paid from some decentralized virtual company that's

paying you and you're using this other id system that's tied into it to get on a bus or into an uber or have food delivered and suddenly it's like yeah i think the the country i'm a citizen of just passed some new law but i don't really like i don't know if it impacts me someone will let me know in the meantime i still work i still move around i you know it's like it's gonna be they're never gonna go away there's long tails on these things but when like people don't know what multi-polarity truly means no they just think oh well suddenly china is going to be like you know elbowing and you know elbowing with russia and europe and america to be the number one country it's like no that's not what multi-polarity means multi-polarity means that nation states are going to be like pushing back and forth with layer ones

and blockchains and daos and organized crime factions and religious cults that are going to have nukes like that's where we're headed you know yeah yeah i totally crash i i totally agree with that i have to read snow crash i meant to uh ask you about um you haven't read snow crash i haven't and the books you recommended to future shock i I think among them, I'm going to, I'm going to order them and I'm going to read them. I don't read anything. So my wife, if she hears this, we'll laugh. It'll be just more books to put. You could probably summarize future shock in one sentence, right? The pace of change is accelerating and that is causing psychosis over iterative generations excuse me yeah is that on the back sleeve that this is this is the thing i think people so when people talk

about how like you just mentioned there with multi-polarity people don't really understand what it means because they don't they think about like the next step right yeah when people when you say multi-polarity they say it's another country it's another currency another, whatever, like nation state group, like a bricks or something like that competing with NATO or whatever. Right. That's what they think. Cause that's the next step. But as you mentioned there, the change, the pace of the change is accelerating so fast that people can't get their head around it. The psychosis they're experiencing isn't of their own making. It's that their brain can't handle that that there's been no steady evolution the curve is not linear and we are linear thinkers famously uh the species right and i i i try and say

this to people all the time like i i joke about being difficult to talk to at a barbecue because i just don't care to talk about all the bullshit that half my friends think is like relevant. I was at a party a couple of weeks ago and we were talking a bit about the election, which I promised my wife every time we leave the house, I will not start talking about. But you know, and one of my buddies is like, yeah, I did hear RFK has a, he's got a brain worm. I saw that he got a brain worm when he was, I just think like this person is not equipped for what's coming in the next five years. Because even if you're one of these people who dines at the slop trough of CNN and the legacy media for every opinion you have, even they aren't prepared to share the change with

you in any way at all, favorable, unfavorable, something in between to their own causes. They just don't have the tools to help you. In fact, no one has the tools to help you. Even I don't have the tools to help these people, or you don't have the tools to help these people. The only way to be prepared is to assume that whatever is going to happen next in your mental model is going to happen faster than you think and be over before you can adjust to it fully. And people are not ready for that. The monetary thing is a big one. I think the passport thing is a big one. I worry that the big thing over the next few years will be,

you know, we've talked about this, I think, offline and maybe when you came over last year, but the sort of like limiting travel and limiting currency swaps and limiting, you know, I think limiting on and off ramps to Bitcoin is going to be a big one because people for all for all the government's faults, they know how bad they fucked this up. And they know that people are going to start seeing how bad they fucked it up. And the most obvious response is to just cage everybody.

That's the thing I think I'm worried about the most. Yeah, well, that's CBDCs. I mean, that's sort of sums up all of that. But to your point about it's happening so fast that nobody can fully adjust, even CNN, even the World Economic Forum, like nobody. That's why I really like I kind of wince when I hear these conspiracy theories of like they're gonna do this and force you to do this it's like they are as behind the curve and flying by the seat of their pants as we are and they're just trying to say like you know i'm thinking about that famous clip with klaus

schwab and sergey brin when schwab is saying, like, he wasn't saying this is this demonic dictator. He was like, just literally trying to keep up with how, like, he's living in a singularity full time. And he's one of the few old people who kind of understands it. And he's like, we're not going to need elections because we're going to have AI that already knows who's going to win. Now, that's a very industrial age, linear extrapolation of what was going on. And he's nothing could be further, like more inaccurate than that statement, right? Like it's just, you're completely wrong. But that's not the utterance of a world domination dictator. It's the,

it's the utterance of a man trying to build a moat around an industrial age fortune, right. On behalf of himself and a bunch of other like old blue blood families. It's like, this is all happening so fast. Like this is where we're headed. How do we get a handle on it? It's like,

guess what? We're not even headed there. Right. Yeah. We're not even headed there. Like it's just something else is going to happen. Klaus, like, sorry. And no, nobody knows. I think I'm totally out of control world. Don't you think the catalyst, this is the thing I think is the most likely catalyst for all this is capital gains and unrealized gains taxes becoming two percent for average people and knives and and i think that's i think that's a big one i think that forces people to think about other monies and other wealth storage vehicles it may not be pitchforks and knives it will be um it will be secession and it will be capital flight yeah right yeah uh i mean i used to say privately i don't know if i ever said it in a public writing during the trump years when he was the president

i said donald trump will be the penultimate president of the united states for people who don't know penultimate means second to last one second to last one so i said whoever comes after trump will be the last president right of the united states as we know it today um so that means if he gets back in right whoever comes after him next if he doesn't get back in then like biden is the last one right um and kamala will be the first female black hispanic canadian born and raised president of eastern united states and her colleague gavin newsom will be the president of the Western United States. And, you know, I completely forgot the governor of Florida. It's DeSantis.

DeSantis will be the first president of the Southern Confederacy states. You think that's possible? Like, secession is like this thing I see on Twitter all the time. And, you know, the Albertan Bitcoin contingent calls for it quite frequently as well uh i think some of the quebec bitcoin contingent calls for it i'll have to ask the bull guys what's it is a done deal but not until after the liberals or the ndps or whatever like socialist amalgamation they form after the polyev years are over comes back to power but when that happens um that will wexit is a done deal let's finish with this uh since i know you have an engagement following this program that's very important uh the the canadian state

of affairs i i am on the record i went on the Carrazzo show a few weeks ago and said to Tom that much the way I think Harris is going to win in the States, I would not bet against the liberals in Canada come next election. I think there's maybe one key reason for that. Times are becoming more turbulent and in turbulent times, as I mentioned earlier, you forget about the future and just think about what's right in front of you. This is a natural response. I don't hold it against the liberal base for that, nor do I hold it against people who are on the fence and in normal circumstances would vote for a right-leaning party. I mean, they're sort of left of center anyways, the conservatives here, but they're right of the liberals, right of the NDP.

I don't hold it against them. And I think that times, I think we both think that times are becoming more turbulent, more quickly and at a more extreme level. And so that's going to change the way that this polling looks as we go into the election in 25. I think that if you look at the actions of the three parties, they all know this. Um, Polly Ev very very vocally all of a sudden calling for a confidence vote from the ndp telling everyone we have to get an election now uh the liberals on the other hand that i think we're going to wait you know i think we're not going to play politics we're going to govern as uh mel jolie said the other day uh christopher field and saying that there's more good news to come and that's what the conservatives are worried about now i don't know if i would call it good news but there's going to

be a change in the circumstance for a lot of canadians i think over the next let's say 12 months where do you come down on what's going on in canada the elections what are your thoughts on all that it's a lock um a lock mark you should never use the l word in a public setting conservative blowout lock and i'll tell you why because the inc when the incumbent when the when the situation is as shitty as it is now the incumbent party always gets blown out like you cannot re-up yourself after what is it 10 years in power by the time he'll be 10 next year yeah i think it'll be 10 like it's just people are done even if everything was great he would be done so the longer they drag this out you've heard me i'm calling for the liberals to lose their party status. Yeah, you have said that. Yeah. NDPs are finished.

Liberals are finished. The block is going to be the opposition, right? The Greens are going to win more seats than the NDP. And the conservatives are just going to have a super majority. Hopefully they don't mess it up. You think, eh? It's that much of a done deal don't you have any concerns about a debate cycle or a new cycle clearly that the the media here is bent for the liberals which i would be too if they're signing some portion of my check yeah what what is stopping these guys from,

you know, suddenly looking like the 92 dream team. Like I'd like to say, wearing the same Jersey, all of them. And I don't think whatever it takes to get a run. You don't think that, but why people,

I don't see a guy who's interested in stepping down when I see him talk. Trudeau at his heart is a coward. Okay. So a real leader, when the freedom convoy came to town, kudos to Ben in the chat, right? Ben Dichter in the chat tonight, a real leader would have walked out of, you know, Parliament Hill and sat down in the fucking snow and had a coffee with the truckers. A real leader would have done that. Trudeau pretended he had COVID and fucking hid under his mother's skirt.

He is a coward. So he knows he's going to lose this next election. And he's not even going to run. He's going to step aside to spend and he's not even going to run. He's going to step aside to spend more time with his family who's deserted him. And they're going to replace them with Mark Carney. Do you think it's going to be Carney? Yeah.

After the announcement. Yeah. Yeah. He's this generation's Michael Ignatieff. And he's going to get like, he's just going to get grinded ground up and shit out it's not even gonna be pretty well on that note uh let's wrap it up on that uh somber sober uh bright note as always mark uh a great show tell people where they can find out more about you bomb thrower you got some other

stuff going on i put in the show notes but uh the floor is all yours buddy yeah thanks uh well you know my day job is i run easy dns.com so if you want to get a domain name or a web host with uh someone who's not going to de-platform you for your opinions uh head on over do we have we have a coupon code right cb cbp media i think is the code that we use yeah uh stunt pope on twitter bombthrower.com for the free mailing list and uh i got a new substack i'm gonna use the c word i'm sorry it's the crypto hedge report so it's crypto hedge.substack.com and hang on i'm gonna just briefly explain myself okay do it there's much to the chagrin of the bitcoin maxis and i tell all my readers and anyone who i'm sort of consulting with bitcoin is a category of one right there is no you know bitcoin is the dial tone and everything else is like ms dos and file, you know, Excel. But normies, people outside our tent,

to them, it's all cryptocurrency. Like that is the label they put around all of it. And if you try to start a conversation with them that like Bitcoin's not crypto, their eyes are not going to turn into orange lasers. They're going to glaze over and you're going to lose them. So you just have to explain to them, this is the crypto space. I prefer to call it the digital asset space.

And Bitcoin is the bedrock upon which the entire space is built. That's the sell? What goes on in that letter? I haven't read that letter yet. It's really just a subset of the Bitcoin capitalist letter. So like the Bitcoin capitalist is like two 30 to 50 page reports a month. And it's- Bitcoin capitalist is good.

You should, like I, listen, I know you don't want to promote the letter too much, but it's good. I don't read a lot of stuff. Even the stuff I pay for, like I pay for a few things. I don't read it all the time. I always read that letter because I think it's pretty good content. Yeah. So, I mean, but for people, if they're just getting into the space, it might just seem like too much of a commitment for them. So I said, okay, I'm just going to set up this sub stack. And it's like anything you, if you're a paid user on the sub stack, you get like the sliver of what goes in the letter. But I try to pick out the most salient points each month of like,

okay, this, this is what you need to know. And then the people on the main letter get like the whole portfolio of the crypto stocks and all that stuff. So. Right. That's great.

Okay, everyone. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Show it to Mark's daughter, M who came to the chat today. God bless you. Damn bless you damn damn well better things to do than listen to your old man talk to me so uh until next everyone take care of yourselves thanks joey