The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP - Nuclear Bitcoiner (Ryan MacLeod)

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES This week we welcome back to the show, Ryan MacLeod (@nuclearbitcoinr) for a chat about the latest and greatest in the best power source on earth. Tune in, you're sure to learn something! From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: ⁠ ⁠⁠ A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠⁠EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠⁠The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only to be talking about a lot of things. Ryan, obviously you guys know him. He's been on the show, I think twice before. This is probably his third appearance. It's either second or third appearance. I forget. Maybe more than that, actually. He's the guy to go to for all things nuclear and Bitcoin and nuclear even more broadly, maybe. It's a big topic these days in energy. It's a big topic in Bitcoin. It's a big topic in green and whatnot, some stuff that we look with disdain on from time to time, but it's important tech. It's maybe the most important thing we've achieved as

a civilization species in terms of energy provision. So we're going to talk about that today. But as always, before we start the sponsors, EasyDNS, Mark and the team, the best in the business when it comes to DNS, VPS, all that good stuff. So I'll tell you a story. There was a listener to the show who sent me a DM a couple of days ago. He was trying to buy a couple of domains, as all good Bitcoiners should do. And it was a hang up, I guess, with the promo code or something. Some weird exemption or fringe case here.

None other than Mark himself hopped into action, helped sort the problem out, made sure that this guy got what he needed, and now we got a happy domain owner. Actually, owner of multiple domains, I believe. You can't get that kind of customer service in most places, let alone a business like EasyDNS, which has been around for more than a decade,

almost 20 years now, I think, if I remember the founding date, it's like early 2000s, but Mark left to correct me on that. You're not going to get that kind of service everywhere, especially not from the proprietor, founder, co-founder. On top of that, if you ever want to get some support with what you're doing, whether it's VPS stuff, you want to do virtual private server

with Mark and the team over at EasyDNS, you want to do a Bitcoin node, Nostra Relay, node-less implementation, you name it. Whatever you want. You can get it done there. Host your email there. Me and Len are working on the at Canadian Bitcoiners emails. Got to be pretty soon.

I'm tired of using Gmail like a cuck. Got to work on that. And he's helping with all that stuff. And then, of course, if you go to CanadianBitcoiners.com, you can see what we've put together with Mark's help for the website. We post there every week, a couple of times. We have a couple of guest writers, whether it's the weekly news roundup, the weekly research stuff. I think I said on yesterday's show, some recent content from my buddy Bitcoin Scribe on payment apps. All there, all powered by EasyDNS. So if you want to use them, you should.

Go to EasyDNS.com, use our promo code CBPmedia, or just tell them we sent you. Tell them we sent you. Hit them up on Twitter, hit them in the chat here. He's with us most of the live streams, Monday nights, Wednesday nights, or Tuesdays, I guess, in this case. Always around, always ready to help. It's a great company. We're happy to be partnered with them. And the second company, of course, we're happy to be partnered with as well, Bull Bitcoin. So you guys know that I think on the 15th, the last day for KYC free Bitcoin, at least for now, via the Bull Bitcoin QR code slash post office method that we've been so happy with as a podcast and as a sponsor. And I know Len and I use it a bunch.

And I'm sure you guys do too. So that is ending for now. So, you know, that is ending for now, but don't forget, okay. Bull is the most mission focused Bitcoin company in the space. You will not catch Francis in any Twitter space, podcast appearance, talking about anything but Bitcoin and driving Bitcoin forward. There is no other consideration. There is no fiat consideration. It is Bitcoin or it is death. And they may even sell a shirt with that on it. I'm not 100% sure, but nothing would surprise me. If you want to pay your bills in Bitcoin, price is up right now compared to two months ago, although down compared to yesterday. You can do that too. Bills is on

their platform, BYLLS. You want to pay your phone bill, your property tax, whatever, they got you covered. And don't forget, non-custodial, make sure you have your addresses ready. You got to control the keys on the wallet to which you send your Bitcoin when you buy. And baked in privacy, Coinjoins on every single outgoing transaction. You can't beat it. Use the promo code. Iwantbitcoin.ca is the website. I forget what our promo code is because I've said it basically zero times. Len always does the read, So forgive me for that. But yeah, great company. We're happy to be with them as well. I'm going to be your jersey. I need to get one of these jerseys. I was at the Your Life, Your Terms event on the weekend, and Anthony Degasin is running FINLIT, this financial literacy program for kids with his buddy Mark Mulder.

How's the jersey on? The same one, I'm pretty sure. And I am more and more jealous every time I see them. So first of all, you look great. Second of all, how are you doing? Does your mood match your appearance? I am in a very great mood right now. There's so many reasons to be excited. There's just Bitcoin's exciting, nuclear power's exciting.

And yeah, the jersey, I picked it up at last year's conference. I almost didn't get it, but then I was going to Minneapolis for a nuclear conference the next week. And part of the, one of the events we were going to was a twins game. So I was like, well, I need to have a ball jersey. So I picked it up and then that's how i got out on the pizza that they had for the speakers at the conference because i got caught up talking for so long and then that happens and i hear that we're getting hockey jerseys this year yeah that is where we have hockey teams this year and uh it's going to be a shit show but uh i have signed up to play in net for the Canadian team. You're the goalie.

Dude, I was on the weekend. We were talking, me and the bowl guys were talking and the rumor was we couldn't get goalies. And so you're telling me you're playing goalie for the Canadian team? I saw there was a posting by the Hodler's official that they were looking for a goalie. And I was like, well, I've got pads and skates.

I haven't worn it in 13 years, but what better reason to come out of retirement? And then I can, now I can tell my parents and be like, yo dad, I'm playing for team Canada. What are you talking about? Like,

yeah, I expect I'm not the only one coming out of retirement for this one. Well, I don't know. Like you're, I think you're a little younger than me, but I haven't played hockey since I was like in grade eight. And I have skates that I bought maybe 10 years ago.

And I tell myself every year I'm going to go get them sharpened, get the edges put back on them. And I just never do. And I got to be honest, it's tempting to play in that game. I'm going to be busy Thursday night now, and I'm not going to be able to play in it or even make it. But I know Brandon from Green Candle is going to be doing the play-by-play, which should be good. And I hope he finds a competent partner. I wasn't able to join him obviously for that either but okay so question for you then on the hockey front before we keep going who do you think is the best canadian olympic goalie in the last like 30 40 years like i think a lot of people are partial to broder but i think you can make a case for like kujo or wa or belfor

where do you land i don't it is hard is hard to pick because all the ones you listed off were ones from my era when I used to pay a lot more attention to hockey. But yeah, I haven't been paying too much to professional sports these days. But yeah, I would have to go with Brodeur. Brodeur was one of my favorites. And then I was also a fan of Kolzig from the Germans. Oh, yeah, Olaf Kolzig. I forgot about that guy.

Yeah, because that was back when I was a big fan of the Capitals around the time when they signed Ovechkin. And it came about from me playing online NHL because the Capitals were the shittiest team in the league. And so it was the only thing I had to do. So I just got really good with the shittiest team and played in leagues and wrecked people only thing i had to do so i just got really good with the shittiest team and played in leagues and wrecked people and then i just yeah became a capitals fan out of that you love to see it you know i love you guys talking about nhl 94 but like i'm i'm i'm partial to uh some old school blades of steel oh man blades blades of steel ice hockey

those are really the best games if len had you know any kind of sense he would do a podcast about those the the depth of the fan club for those games is like Olympic swimming pool deep. And I would love to see something about that. Okay, so let me tell people here kind of what we're doing. You and me traded DMs a little while ago. I know we talk a little bit about nuclear on the show from time to time. And I got to be honest, we are like over our heads when it comes to sort of policy and maybe protection of quality nuclear energy programs around the world, but specifically Europe, North America. And the reason we look at those two countries more often than

not is because I think that there's a real chance that whatever happens in those countries in terms of policy, both on the energy front and on the Bitcoin front is going to drive outcomes around the rest of the world, especially the modern world. Maybe not LATAM, maybe not some of these other on the fringe adopters, but for you and I, it's going to be a big deal. And one of the reasons we wanted to bring you back on is because there's no one better to talk to about this, like I said in the intro so maybe we should start with in canada ryan what is the state of the nuclear energy uh picture for us where are we now what should we be looking at how do we get here maybe the last like six eight months whenever the last time you were on yeah well there's been i think several several more announcements about developments with different stakeholders and provinces that want to participate in getting nuclear power.

But Ontario, I think today or yesterday, sometime this week, they reached their 10-year milestone of being completely coal-free from our grid. And that is thankfully from our nuclear power fleet that we have and it's very well maintained. Currently, I think there's three reactors down for refurbishments and they're cycling through. I think they'll be completely finished the entire fleet by 2030. Well, 2032 was the original plan, but now they might be adding Pickering to the list. So that's going to extend it. But they're getting a lot of experience and doing these projects ahead of schedule, on budget. And it's very reassuring that there are some parties in the nuclear sector that are very competent at developing this infrastructure.

Because Vogel was a bit of a shit show. There's plenty of reasons for that and any if anybody wants to do a deep dive on it um the decoupled podcast has like a three-part series that goes through very detailed on all of the uh the shit show that building vogel was and all tell people what vogel is i only know it a little bit because i do listen to decoupled when i have time but tell people a little bit about what that is because we've never talked about on the show yeah vogel is a pair of nuclear reactors that were just completed in Georgia. They're the AP1000 design. But when they were started, the process started in like 2005. And there was a bit of over commitment on that the design was complete before it was done. And there was lots of engineering changes on the fly and getting along with regulators. And then some stakeholders started to sue other stakeholders because there was like QA qualifications that weren't being met. And it was a mess. But the thing about it, though, is the job got done. The reactor's complete.

They have a complete design now. They've reestablished a really good supply chain to develop those reactors, and they've got the labor force so the smart move would be to parlay that into building more of these things and not just let all of that painstaking effort go to waste after the billions of dollars that got poured into it in the many many years waiting and then there was also a second pair of reactors that was supposed to be built in i think south carolina at the summer site and part way through they just got completely scrapped because it was just the cost overruns and the stakeholders involved in that one were not willing to completely follow through on it so it is actually miraculous that Vogel even got completed as it did but now that it is online it is a impressive milestone they finally reached so yeah there's

a lot of talk about building more and then there's a a lot of interest in SMRs all over the place for various sizes, different heat outputs, different fuel types, different coolant types that can be used to apply to non-electrical applications for nuclear and have different sized grids and off-grid applications. Yeah, nuclear wants to reach into a lot more more markets where the traditional large reactors aren't really a good fit but there is a huge resurgence in a lot of interest in these large reactors like even um at the the cop conference there was 23 or 24 countries signed on to a pledge to triple global nuclear capacity by 2050 but one thing that was notable is on that pledge,

the three countries that are actively building the most nuclear power at the moment, India, China, and Russia, were not actually part of that pledge, which is kind of just, they're just building. They don't need to make these grandstanding pledges about it. But they've also been like, yeah, they're like the black sheep of the international community. They kind of get, they don't get the, to stand in all the pictures with everyone else these days. No, exactly. So one thing you mentioned there that I want to, it's a thread I want to pull on, and we talked about it a bit in the past, you know, in different silos.

This idea that we're doing things now and displaying, you know, competency, and I think you use the word practice, we're getting reps basically in building these things. One of the concerns I have about infrastructure in Canada, and I'm sure the Americans share it, and I'm sure there's European countries that share the same concern. I don't think there's a lot of people who understand how these systems truly work and what they're built on. And what we've seen in the last year, especially when it comes to stuff like roads, bridges, electrical infrastructure, airplanes, for God's sake, you're operating what looks to be on a pretty significant technical deficit. And it's just, they're building things on old systems because they don't know how the old systems work.

And you wind up causing new problems for yourself and having these unreliable finished products, right? Whether it's a power plant, a bridge, a plane, a car, whatever. Is it fair to say, and I'm not really a person that's worried about this, but I know people who are, is it fair to say that nuclear from the standpoint of whether it's going to win out long-term, is it like, you know, ordained is too strong a phrase, but like, it seems to me almost a guarantee because we're just not building a lot of other power sources or power plants or energy output from scratch anymore, except this stuff. The refurbishing process is pretty significant from what I understand. Is there opportunities for guys to quote unquote, get reps in other power silos? There's got to be

a better way to phrase that, but it seems to me like nuclear is the one that everyone is building and working on. And this is the one that's going to naturally take over because that's where we're going to have the new generation of expertise, not this older stuff. Well, it's definitely become the attractive shiny new object these days because everyone's as, as the strategies of the last decades or so appear to be showing cracks and not manifesting as they were promised. And like noticing that like, there's a lot of, of um a lot of deals uh that we're planning to build solar and wind all over the place are falling through because they they need guarantees of higher rates in order to be profitable so they're just not being built which is preferable

to them being built with capital that they were given freely and terribly misallocated and then building these things and then having to survive purely off of subsidies. And then that creates distortions in these grids. And like, yeah, like that's like what you said, like we're almost sabotaging ourselves. Like getting in reps is is important for like building these things. But we're actively making it difficult to develop like hydrocarbon infrastructure these days. Like we're, we're deterring intellectual capital from entering these sectors because they're seeing policy pointing in a direction that, that we're trying to reduce the amount of these vital industries that we have

supporting like our very high tech society but it's yeah it is reassuring to see that we're finally coming back around to nuclear because yeah like i i don't have like i'm not completely opposed to the wind and solar but the way that they were just being mass applied everywhere that they could find the land to build them and then damn the ability to actually like even connect them to the grid in a reasonable time frame don't consider the fact that like as you're if you're building a lot of these all at the same time then they're all starting to cannibalize each other's infrastructure when they and they cause grid congestion it causes negative prices and just all kinds of negative consequences and like a good book to read on this is meredith angwin's

shorting the grid she goes into great detail like explaining how like subsidies and a lot of these incentives create distortions that then have negative consequences for our base load generators and then instead of building and continuing to develop our this this infrastructure because it's all just like one giant machine that has different nodes connected to each other from generation to transmission to consumers at the end like it's it's got a lot of moving parts that needs a lot of competent individuals that have had the time to develop those expertise in these in these markets but we had a good chunk of time where yeah people were attracted to like the tech industry to finance industry people want to just be online stars nowadays it's just yeah this the the drain away from trades and engineering and all of the the talents that we need to maintain a high-tech

society don't seem to be manifesting as as we were assured that they would be. But the way that we see it, you just start seeing the incentives, and it all makes sense. It's just people aren't motivated to do the hard work these days because fiat just creates the easy path for everyone. Yeah, it's clearly a problem. I'm curious about what your thoughts are on why there's been such a significant swing of the pendulum toward nuclear. You mentioned the COP conference, you know, 23 or 24, I can't remember what you said, member states signing a declaration is significant. It is a little bit of a grandstand dog and pony show type thing, but that's what those conferences are for. So it's significant in that regard. And then you mentioned also China, Russia, India, which I think is, you know, what, 30%, 40% of the entire world's population. It's some significant number. They're all building nuclear at a rate that's basically unprecedented and much greater than anywhere else in the civilized world.

What changed? You know, you mentioned that we went from this, this like determination, tunnel vision, building wind and solar everywhere, all the time, at any cost, for any grid purpose, for any need set, no matter what. There was no tailoring. It just was a plug and play solution. It was popular in politics, popular in media, and popular for energy activists as well. And suddenly that's flipped. What happened? What was the big difference? Because as far as I can tell, short of what's going on in parts of Europe, this sort of energy slash economic suicide at the hands of solar panels and wind turbines, I don't know what else changed.

It's a lot of the same people in power since two years ago. A lot of the same activist groups are prominent. What was the big shift in your view? Was there one? What happened? I don't know. activist groups are prominent what was the big shift in your view was there one what happened i don't know it feels like something around 20 21 is when the shift really started to happen because i only started to really pay attention early in 21 because it was on the tail end of me figuring out bitcoin and then i was just like well i'm in the nuclear industry and i can totally

figure out how this applies and then i went deep down both rabbit holes at the same time. And yeah, there was like just the public sentiment and the policy sentiment was definitely unfavorable towards nuclear. really changed and it seemed like more people within the broader public that were starting to feel the pain and observe these these policies actually manifesting because like there's a lag effect to all this like you you build these things and you build them all over the place and then you don't start seeing the like the diminishing returns until they're all over the place and you start seeing congestion in your uh getting your transmission infrastructure connected so that all these things can actually get connected to the grid and then when they are connected to the grid they cause all kinds of chaos because they generate power not synchronously with the frequency of all of the the spinning generation that's on the grids from your the

hydro and the nuclear and the thermal sources because they they have to maintain a very specific frequency it's basically like a heartbeat so they have to have extra infrastructure in place that brings the wind and solar infrastructure in line so it's great that you can produce free electricity on the spot at the site and if you can consume it on site that is great because you have minimal costs but as soon as you need to put that on the grid and deliver it to customers, there's all kinds of extraneous costs that get added into it. But I think that that was only really possible in the policy environment where the zero interest rate policy was the reigning the day. And these were one of the great beneficiaries of those policies. They were getting very low interest loans. They were getting the ITC, I forget what that one stands for,

the infrastructure tax credit, the production tax credit, and there's all these things. And then so like they're profitable when the grid price is like negative 10 cents and they're still making money. And then you've got your nuclear generators. They've got to beg to be like, well, can we at least like get guaranteed like three,

4 cents a kilowatt hour? Like that's what we have in Ontario. Like our Bruce and the, the other OPG reactors, they get paid like a flat, I think it's like seven, 8 cents a kilowatt hour in Canadian. That's probably like 6 cents American,

but maybe even 5 cents. Cause yeah, we're, we're, we're not, we're not doing well. Like I love seeing it looking at the all time high in Canadian versus the, where it's at in, in American. And like we're 10,000, almost like $15,000 more than where we were the last time that it was at this price.

It's ridiculous. And our, our, yeah, our dollar is such a shit coin. Like you can't use it. Can't use it anywhere, but's just it's it makes it hard for the nuclear base load generators to make the return on their investment and recover their capital costs when they are constantly having to either pay the grid to take their power or not earn anything from it all by by curtailing so like a lot of what ontario does is we when our we're running at full capacity we'll export to the northern states but then the northern states became kind of dependent on those imports and then they decided that oh we

can just shut down our nuclear reactors and they'll just be replaced magically by windmills and solar panels and as we see indian Point has been pretty omnitly replaced by natural gas and imports. Palisades was replaced by natural gas and imports. Pilgrim, natural gas and imports. These are just like four or five reactors just all along the Northeast Corridor that this was completely went against the conventional wisdom at the time that, yeah, reality did not match what their fantasy was of how it was going to play out and now there's a actual a frantic effort to re um restart palisades

reactor in michigan and i would not be surprised if that prompts others to possibly look at the possibility of of re um restarting some of those other reactors that were shut down i had heard something about there's some reactors in New Jersey that were considered for being shut down within three or four years that are now being looked at for life extensions and refurbishments. Like even Gentilly 2 in Quebec, there's been rumors that there's serious talk about refurbishing that, which would be very interesting.

And that would be a really good thumb in the eye of our environment minister because he was one of the lead activists petitioning to get it shut down in the first place. What is the rationale for someone like Minister Guilbeault to want to shut down nuclear? You know, politics aside, I don't necessarily think that even a common person with rudimentary understanding of energy policy or energy generation, if you realize or know or have done a little bit of research, you're pretty quickly put at bay when it comes to common concerns. The waste is not as dangerous as you think, and the half-life is not as significant as you might believe.

And there's never really been a death from a nuclear plant accident outside of Chernobyl, maybe depending on how you qualify some of those deaths. And so what reason does the federal government have to oppose these things apart from politics and maybe a decades-old blood feud feud with a you know energy generation method i just don't see it and i i can't imagine you do either but you must know what they're saying at least what are they saying well a lot of it's ideological driven and and fear obviously just from an older generation that was exposed to a lot more um scary narratives about nuclear and the possibilities.

And they, they lived through, through those events that were like, yeah, like they were tragic events, but they were definitely overhyped and sensationalized relative to the actual results of, of any exposure to the public.

But like there's, yeah, like that there was more, more fatalities in that bridge accident the other day than like fukushima so it's like like it happened like industrial accidents happen radiation is just another industrial hazard that we know how to manage we know how to detect and we know how to control it it's really it's really not that big of a deal but because it's very poorly understood by the broader public it can be scary especially since most of their exposure to it is yeah popular culture simpsons and yeah like isn't

that something ryan like you would never do this anywhere else we don't we don't maybe the only other place we see this sort of spectacular picture of the threat of a certain kind of technologies like artificial intelligence right everyone thinks of iRobot instead of just thinking about a you know a chat window that spits out a piss poor grade 10 essay Wikipedia style you know like but really there's no like the danger is not as bad as everyone thinks and so I guess maybe the next logical question in terms of like you know why the government opposes it's ideological I think in a lot of cases who's leading the charge for refurbishing in these in these um in these in these instances you mentioned like the quebec um i forget the name of the plant there but it's interesting because there there was really no

voices outside of nuclear advocates years ago that were pushing for this but that wasn't enough then so there must have been someone added to the pool of voices. Who's in the chorus now? Who's making all the noise? It's probably mostly coming from the utilities because they have been screaming that what is being done to the grid that they are trying to manage is making their job incredibly difficult and challenging. And everyone was excited about the eclipse yesterday, and I was more interested in seeing what the power market charts were going to look like and just seeing that dip in the middle of the day of solar just disappearing and the natural gas ramping up like seven, eight gigawatts for 10 minutes. God, you are for sure on the spectrum, buddy. That's a dead giveaway there. Yeah, I talk with my hands. It was just so much interesting things going on in our power systems right now. And we have intentionally started to sabotage them with the policy that's being forced upon them.

You're saying we. In Canada, you're saying this too. Everyone knows Europe. Everywhere. Europe, it's not as bad and prevalent in canada because we at least like listen to our utilities when they say like no like we need to keep the coal online we need to keep the gas online we need to keep the nuclear online we need to extend it for multiple generations so that we like always have these assets available to us like it's

switching to a completely renewable grid like requires a completely reconfiguration like the entire thing has to be re rebuilt like it's it's already much so much of like a patchwork of being put together and it's done in a way that we know that works with so that everything rotates and syncs with each other at the same frequency so that it can all communicate across like these vast distances and then you start throwing in these other sources that are essentially like communicating with this network in in a way that doesn't align with what it's familiar with and it starts to throw it out of whack and it and it starts to make these men's jobs incredibly more difficult then they start looking into these things like, Oh, well,

we can institute these programs where we will incentivize the public to lessen their energy usage. And it's like, yes, yes. I hear you saying that I'm going to have fun being poor. Yes. We're going to use less energy. Have fun being cold. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Oh yes. Like they've gotten lucky in Europe these last few years that winter has been kind of mild.

Cause if they got a cold winter day, we're not going to do well. And like, it's like, we're putting people in a position where they have to choose if they want to eat in, in, in a home in the cold or the dark,

like, like one of, one of those pieces is like balancing all of that nowadays like in affording life is incredibly challenging for a lot of people and then yeah you're jacking around something that we've relied upon like you like these energy systems for for so long and yeah now people don't know how to cope with it and it's going to be worse for developed countries like watching what's happened in south south af and it's going to be worse for developed countries like watching what's happened in south south africa it's like i heard the concept of like it's a four of being a

fourth world country a country that had a developed infrastructure that went in reverse because now you've got all this other infrastructure that was built second and third layers on top of your base power infrastructure and now like i'm hearing things about that they're not able to afford to import natural gas. So they're having to shut down some of their, their large power plants and they're having to ration or have rolling blackouts. They're they're like,

they will say we'll only last a short period of time, but then they'll just extend indefinitely. And you can't predict your life around that. You can't run a business on that. You can't even like keep a freezer full of meat on that like that changes people's lives in a dramatic way and you you put people that have like when cities have developed with millions of people if that um reliability like gets kicked out of their energy systems like it'll be mad max pretty damn quick this is so true right people don't realize you

know i live in hamilton dundas you know whatever people call it different things but one of the things i i see now where i am and i hear it as well actually there's a power station not too too far from where i am and you know you'd be surprised how often one of those transformers blows. It's like once every, I don't know, couple months maybe in the summertime. And I said to my wife a little while ago, and you're making the same point, and it's something that's been floating around for a long time. I don't know who originally said it. You're basically only about nine meals away from having to kill somebody for food. And in Canada, especially in places like Hamilton, Toronto, Oakville, Burlington,

like the GTA, GTHA, I would imagine Quebec is like this. I would imagine some parts of BC or Alberta are like this. You're in a locale where rolling blackouts during heat waves is like the expectation. There's going to be a power outage or a brownout or something at some point if everyone is running the air conditioner. Be ready for it. Make sure your fridge is closed. I realize it's not dire, but at the same time, I can't figure out why the provinces and the federal government as well, and perhaps also the people who vote for these ruling parties, these governing parties, do they not realize that we're always a little closer than they think? Do they not consider this? I've always wondered that.

It's not really a question for you. I'm just thinking out loud. This idea that we're so close to, like you said, Mad Max. And if we keep going down this road where we're replacing quality, reliable baseload with dependence on wind, solar, and other stuff that even in the best of times just isn't as efficient as hydrocarbons, for example, you're asking for trouble. Is there a push from the nuclear side of things to say, look, we're already at a point where the grid is unreliable in the traditional model. If we start adding these novel sources, we're going to add problems, and the problems are going to be harder to get out of. Like you mentioned there, a place like South Africa, Fourth World.

When you said these guys had a system that worked, they went backwards, and now they're trying to – that sounds a lot like some places places here too don't you think it's definitely getting precarious like there was energy warnings in alberta just the other day and like this is the spring when for what for what i don't i don't really know what it was but like they were saying that there was strain on the grid and they were suggesting that people reduce their power usage it's just it's happening more and more often in places that were once reliable and affordable. And it's not pretty. It seems like we're moving to... Everything moved to this just-in-time delivery mindset. So we're kind of getting to do that with our electricity.

It's just like, oh, we don't need reserves. We'll just use batteries. And we don't need reserves we'll just we'll just use batteries and we don't we don't need like to have excess capacity we'll just we'll just build all these solar panels and we'll just fill the batteries and then that that will be our reserves but like we need to have dispatchable power that can we can just access whenever we need it like that's that's what the gas is for that's that's where coal and like really serves a really valuable role to our grids and like then there's other stuff that's associated with these with the with coal and gas that are beyond just their electricity and heat usages like they're used as feedstock for countless other like chemical production processes so like that's

that that's probably what's going to happen as they get displaced as we did put more nuclear into the grid displacing the need for coal and gas because that's that's where nuclear really shines above the wind and solar because you can't just drop windmills and solar panels of equivalent volume where a coal plant was or a natural gas plant like they're kind of trying to do that with um one of the coal plants down in uh like near niagara and the capacity is nowhere near yeah nanticoke that's the one okay what it used to be like that that was the largest coal plant in the world for a good chunk of time really yeah and it was the last one that was retired in ontario before we completely went off cool and um yeah so the the amount of wind and solar that's replacing it is

is like a pittance compared to the grid interconnection access that it has there that it could be making available to the grid so that is where they want to do like a nuclear to coal transition because you can just take the old power plant out you can retire it and decommission it and then you can install a nuclear power plant of roughly the same capacity or multiple modules depending on how you want to do it with the next generation of small modular reactors and then you already have access to that legacy power transmission infrastructure so you can just feed right into that with minimal development whereas a lot of these wind and solar projects they're having to be built further and further afield further from their customer base like further from the prime land where they would be best

suitable and then that requires more transmission to bring it where it needs to be and then it also starts putting a strain on the supply chain for transformers, which then starts to affect a lot of the other customers for this technology that require those to get online. So it takes like, I think like 18 months lead time for a transformer and like the best of times. But sometimes now they're saying like as much as two to three years is, is a reasonable time to wait for a transformer.

Come on. Like depending on where you are, like, yeah, like you gotta you gotta know people and like interconnections are taking years like they're saying like oh yeah that's great you've got 100 megawatts worth of wind in northern uk but it's going to be five years before you can connect it to the grid it's like like there's it was such a poor planning ahead because they didn't consider

all these second order effects of the rest of the supply chain that they're going to need to connect all this shit together yeah but like i think like in this there's potential like if we do go to like a breakdown of society and mad max like the the in the the dark ages like the windmills and the solar panels will just be this broken legacy like the uh the roman aqueducts the relics the relics man they'll just be like have you ever played um horizon for i mean this is a bit far afoot but horizon is like a future you know far future game and to your point there's entire subsections of the map where it's just relics of his poor power generation solar wind you're

onto something there you're not the only one thinking that well like we're building so much of it and then what one of the things that i've i learned recently is because the tax credits only endure for 10 years but the product themselves the windmill has a lifetime expectancy of 10 to like 25 years or so they're incentivized to either replace them after 10 years so that that restarts the subsidy clock or to transfer ownership to a local owner so that they are no longer so that someone else is holding the bag for end-of-life maintenance. And people are starting to catch on to this. Like there was actually a major lawsuit. I think it was like the Osage tribe.

Robert Bryce does has a really good piece on this, but they, I think there's 70, 80 or so windmills that they have to tear down because they built them in such rights of the landowners, the tribe, that they wanted access to the resources they have on that land, but those windmills got built there, so they won a court battle to get them taken away so that they can do what they want. And it's interesting because that's also the same tribe that was portrayed in that recent Scorsese movie, the,

uh, killers of the flower moon. Oh, really? I haven't watched it yet, but I've heard it. I heard it's really good. Well, if I ever have four hours to kill,

maybe I'll sit down and watch it. Oh God. I know Scorsese movies. They're so good, but they're God. I know it's a, it's a mission. It's a mission.

Okay. So you've, you've done a killer job here, giving us some, uh, color context to how we got here, where we are. I want to talk a little bit about what's coming next.

And, you know, Canada is, I think, this is how I think about it anyway, and I'm not an expert in nuclear. But are we not famous or, you know, have we not become relatively notable for our can-do tech, our reactor tech? You know, I know we have a few of these sort of Gen 2, Gen 3, Gen 4 reactors maybe. Are we building those still? When you're talking about refurbishing plants, is this what we're doing? Are we advancing the tech in some of these plants? What's on the horizon as far as the sort of Gen 3, 4, 5, whatever can-do style, I think you'd call it reactor. And then what about SMRs? Last time you were on, last time we spoke for sure, there was some discussion about SMRs, but this has really become a popular thing to talk

about. Eric Townsend on Macro Voices did an entire series on YouTube about nuclear energy. And there's a huge swath of that series on SMRs. That guy's a big voice in economics and certainly in the podcast space. So your expertise silos in the spotlight here. So your expertise silo is in the spotlight here. So what are we doing? What's next for us and for sort of nuclear more broadly? What should we be looking for? Yeah, not going to lie. Like there's definitely a lot of hopium on the SMR front.

Like not every design is going to make it to the market and get to its mature commercialized state. So there's a lot of competition to find the right markets and stakeholders and get policy aligned in various ways commercialized state. So there's a lot of competition to find the right markets and stakeholders and get policy aligned in various ways and get first to the market. So there's going to be a lot of failures, but that's how we move forward. We throw as many of them at the wall and we see what can actually provide value for us. On the can-do front, yeah, the refurbishments are going to be upgrading basically the internal components of the entire reactor fleet, I think 18 in total,

to be of the most modern can-do design. And then there was another announcement that Bruce is expanding with a third site. They want to do a set of four for a total of five gigawatts. I don't know exactly what reactor they are planning to do yet. It's still out for tender. There is a new Can-Do design proposed at a recent nuclear conference called the Monarch. I don't know the exact details if it still uses natural natural uranium like the the traditional can do reactors because that is one of its unique selling

points is that the react the uranium fuel does not need to be enriched so that makes it a lot easier to get around a lot of the um the protectiveness that the americans have over letting other countries to enrichment but there is also like a very strong um movement with the the western nations like japan and uh and france and america and canada and a few of the scandinavian countries that have nuclear to support uh fuel development to untangle that supply chain as much as they can from the russian sources because they let themselves become incredibly dependent on russia for enriched fuel because they did an amazing job at it for many many decades they they developed the infrastructure and they were they were good at it

so there wasn't as much impetus to develop those capabilities elsewhere so like it exists in a few places but not as robustly as what is being called for and is expected of with the nuclear sector having so much more demand for fuel in the coming future. There was just an announcement for Romania that they have two incomplete CANDU reactors that were started in the early 2000s that they just received financing for. They already had two operating CANDU reactors. operating how does that happen tell me how this happens that's 25 years ago how does that yeah well i think i think it was related to the the chichesco government that it was started under them and then after that was deposed there was they just there wasn't enough financing to to keep the program going so they had completed two i think like 10 years earlier and then they were going to build two more and they had just just barely prepared the sites and

then they didn't have the the financing fell through for obvious reasons when a dictator gets deposed sure and uh and yeah so they haven't pursued that for 20 something years and yeah just recently they there was an announcement that they're going to finance the completion of those reactors um another notable one is that el salvador has been talking about developing nuclear reactor they're talking with a thorium based reactor company i'm not as familiar with the thorium supply chain and that type of reactor but it does have a lot of promise to it and it's going to take a lot more development to get the thorium supply chains developed because it requires a different preparation process to make it usable as fuel in a nuclear reactor than uranium does another interesting one is that serbia was just at a conference and they announced that they're looking into nuclear power they traditionally had

not like poland has been talking lots about nuclear power but the serbian one i find interesting because i actually had an opportunity to meet prince philip when i was in el salvador for an adopting bitcoin so yeah so like obviously i'm just like so has uh any any consideration about nuclear power for serbia nice to meet you by the way yeah you need nuclear power well i was just i just started asking i was like so so what's what's the power mix on your grid he's like uh uh coal and and gas probably you need some nuclear and we had a good conversation and then two years later serbia's getting nuclear power so i like to think that i had a little bit of nudge on that so i don't know but like i'm starting to meet some interesting people and connect some some really interesting parties together to get some work done.

I went to the conference in Ghana, the African Bitcoin conference in December, and I invited a friend of mine that I met through nuclear advocacy. And he's from Nigeria and he's a nuclear engineer. So he's really smart. He's got a lot of familiarity with the electrical system. So I brought him to a Bitcoin conference and i introduced him to the uh the gridless guys i introduced him to the the guys from the the varanga project and oh yeah he he got bitten by the the mining bug hard three months later he calls me he's like yo i've got this mining site it's basically

got free electricity because they've there's a huge oil plant that has way more power than they know what to do with and there's flares and we just need the right people to start connecting these dots. I'm just like, alright, I know some people. In no time, he's already got another team, the Trojan mining team that's out

in Nigeria already. They're looking at investing and helping develop this project. Another guy that reached out through the oil and gas and Bitcoin telegram group was like, yeah, I'd love to get in on this project. So we're going to start seeing a lot more Bitcoin mining in Nigeria now, because I think they just passed a policy that gives a lot more autonomy to local jurisdictions to determine their own local energy mixes and their own energy needs. So it's going to be less central control and more more distributed

so it'll be interesting to see how that develops especially with like little projects like this popping up everywhere that's going to make a lot more use of that stranded power that they have everywhere that just doesn't have great infrastructure to deliver it very far beyond where it's generated so they have a great opportunity to tap into a lot of resources there. Do you think nuclear, I mean, this is a big question, but in sort of my limited understanding of the energy sector, everything I see tells me that nuclear at some point, you know, should replace or get close to replacing a vast, vast majority of other energy sources, whether it's oil and gas, whether it's the renewables or the intermittence. Do you share that view? Because I just think it's, I don't know, maybe it's not inevitable, but should we really be deploying resources to other energy research at this moment

as the population continues to expand more and more quickly, as the needs of that population continues to expand more and more quickly, as the third world tries to industrialize, and we basically scoff at the idea that they're using oil and gas the way we did, doesn't it make sense that we should just be pouring all our resources, as far as like you mentioned, like intellectual capital into this sector or am i just missing something there i would love to see that but i would love to see just more equitable like less of these like biased policies that favor one source over another and give them unfair advantages that that make it complicated when when you can only earn revenue by selling power to the grid and then someone else is

making revenue by milking like policy and lobbying and getting a better favorable seat at the subsidy trough like it becomes very unbalanced because then you're focused on storytelling and getting your narrative out there and and then and then it starts creating this animosity where if you start getting even a little bit of a seat at that trough then the other pigs at the trough start looking at you like who the fuck's this guy eating my lunch and then that's sort of like the the sentiment that's going on right now like as nuclear power got like a little token piece of the production tax credit and like the wind and solar people are like how dare they it's like like i would rather just none

of it and like compete on the merit and and actually impress investors with a business case that you can return their investment and then keep going and build on that investment. But that's not the world we live in because everything is about who can tell a better story to the people that play the cantillionaire game. Yeah. We have an election coming up here in about a year, maybe a year, maybe a little less. Do you have a view on, I know no one really knows, do you have a view on the differences between the two Canadian parties, the Libs and the Khans, in terms of their energy policies?

I think that there's a huge contingent of Bitcoiners who is in this kind of vote harder daddy camp. I think I'm in that camp. I don't know if you are. I would that there's a huge contingent of Bitcoiners who is in this kind of vote harder daddy camp. I think I'm in that camp. I don't know if you are. I would imagine you are actually, only because we're in a couple of group chats together. But the thing I would just ask you is, does the vote, does the party, does the banner matter to the energy outcome or are they both sort of equally villainizing these nuclear facilities, the nuclear research, the nuclear industry in this unfair way? Well, in the liberals, truthfully, it's only really Guilbeau. He's the only one that's kind of really hardline against nuclear, but he's even been forced in a few public appearances to talk at least like, oh, well, it's necessary. He doesn't, he does the lukewarm thing.

He's not very enthusiastic about it, but he says what he has to say to appease the people in the caucus or whatever. But there's apparently like the liberals, they're very much on board with nuclear power. Like they're definitely kneecapping the oil and gas sector wherever they can, but whatever. they're very much on board with nuclear power like they're they're definitely kneecapping the the oil and gas sector wherever they can but whatever um they've got these grand fantasies

about hydrogen and like shipping it across the seas after producing it with our windmills because germany doesn't want hydrogen produced with nuclear power because they're a total basket case yeah and then on the other side, so yeah, liberals are definitely positive on nuclear power. The provinces, for the most part, are really positive on nuclear power. Ontario and New Brunswick are the two provinces that have nuclear.

Quebec formerly had nuclear and they're kind of lukewarm about getting back into it. Alberta and Saskatchewan have signed on. They want to get in on nuclear power as well. They want to deploy nuclear reactors out throughout the oil sands. They want to deploy them kind of in. Reactors in the oil sands? Really?

Okay. Well, because the other application is they can put out pretty high heat too. So if you're able to output like 800, 900 degrees Celsius steam and heat, you can do that for like the hydrocarbon cracking so you can actually do the refining of the oil and gas and whatnot with the power generated from a nuclear reactor instead of traditionally with the oil and gas that they're producing on site so that more of that can be exported to the other markets that need it more than we do and we can make a lot of profit off of that because it sounds like there's a lot of nations that would really love Canada to expand our gas exports.

But every time they keep getting shut down by our great leader. Story every day. And then, yeah. But then on the other side, the Conservatives, they're also trying, they're like Pierre has been making a few overtures that he's like, if Trudeau is going to be on nuclear, I'm going to be even more nuclear.

So traditionally, conservatives haven't really been super into nuclear because of the period when Harper was in office. There was a bit of stagnation in hiring and whatnot in the sector. But it did come back and it reinvigorated but that was also kind of coincided with uh with what happened in fukushima and so there was a lot of downturn in the sector so it was it was a weird weird tough time and hopefully it doesn't happen again but there are actually people out there that that would love to give the old i i told you so if something did happen which is it's frustrating It's frustrating dealing with people that, that actually like think like that, like that's very negative for future of humanity.

If we aren't successful with these technologies, but then they also assume that like, we haven't learned, like there was a, someone had asked a question recently, like, Oh, how do we prevent another Chernobyl from happening? It's like, well, we don't build 60 year old reactor designs that were shitty in the first place and and like communist uh regimes manage them you know and skimp on service skimp on training skimp on everything the way that communist regimes do i mean it's not that hard to figure that out i don't think and then like even what happened in japan with fukushima like they they were they were

warned it was a risk and it happened and now they've made uh they've made sure that that's not going to happen again they've built walls around those reactors like big 20 meter tall three meter thick fortress walls with and now they've got floating platforms for their backup generators so if if another event like that tsunami were to happen the reactor sites would probably be the safest locations on the island so they're they're prepared and they're very eager to get their reactor fleet back online like every other day there's an announcement that they're they're close there's another one coming back online uh within like the next few weeks so they're going to start putting also a lot more demand on the uh uranium markets and like i don't know if you

you see the uranium charts but it was a bull market for a long time and uh yeah things are things are very exciting. Yeah, I would say. Now, we can't let you go without asking you about your views on sort of energy, Bitcoin, maybe some policy stuff. I know we traded DMs about this stuff in Europe where they're really going after energy use as far as mining the states. Rather bluntly, not long ago, reminding everybody that they're anti-bitcoin mining proposing this 30% excise tax what do you see as far as the landscape for energy use related to bitcoin mining is this something you've spent some time on something you think about often or do you just view this as a you know a predetermined outcome we're going to win

at some point it's just a matter of when, not if. Well, you can only really ban yourself from using Bitcoin. It's going to keep proliferating outside of the walled garden that you put yourself in. So if Europe wants to cut themselves off from this bountiful technology that can make their existing power infrastructure more robust and more reliable and create the incentive to build more and expand it like that's that's their prerogative and yeah sometimes pain is well often pain is a great teacher and i'd hate to see countries go through like a mandibles type of scenario but uh some of them very may well and we here in Canada might possibly see an

outcome similar to that story I really don't want it but like reading through it it's just like yeah it feels really you can you can relate to these characters that when when shit goes sideways like that like my favorite part of the story was when when the the college professor uncle gets his paycheck gets his back pay from several years before but nom, it looks like it's a lot of money. And he goes to the grocery store, packs his cart, and then people are like, who's this guy? And then very quickly smartens up after getting mugged. And yeah, not spoiled too much, but they catch on pretty quick.

Things went sideways and they weren't paying attention because they were trapped in this world view that kind of impeded them from actually like seeing what was really going on like that's one of these cool things about seeing seeing the world through bitcoin is you can you can see a more positive mentality in the world like there there is a lot more potential like like it is like you can view the different operating systems from each other almost like like i i yeah you you see the keynesian world you put on the bitcoin lens and like yeah once once you start contrasting it from outside of the system all of the cracks and the flaws start becoming very apparent but getting others to come on board and see what we see is incredibly challenging because they are heavily invested in the world as it, as it works in the

way that they understand it and challenging that worldview requires a significant amount of mental work to, yeah, just update yourself and update. Yeah. There's an admission. There's like an, you know, an inherited mission that you were wrong about a lot and uh that's difficult to do for a lot of people in the best case right you've been great as always man we're coming up on an hour i just want to be finished with one last question um the montreal conference you're going you're playing hockey are you you're on a panel i believe as well are you not uh probably at least one panel talking about the relationship energy and bitcoin and future grids and micro grids and i'm not sure exactly who i'm going to be on the panel with but it's yeah very likely that um i'll be speaking with with uh

someone that dan carlin introduced me to recently from hydro quebec so i'm looking forward to that one because he's very familiar with with the grid and demand response programs and because quebec actually has a demand response program that the miners are actually very heavily participating in yeah similar to to texas so i was not aware of how extensive that that actually was like i knew there was plenty of miners in quebec and they had the the moratorium but they're apparently serving quite a positive role on their grid. And he's working to shift that narrative from the inside. So I'm supporting his work as much as I can from connecting him with other people that I know. And we're probably going to have a pretty good talk about the future that we can build if these trends that we are all kind of tapped into can continue to manifest themselves.

And did you hear Bob say when he was talking with Len the other day that they're making a 10 terahash chip? Yeah. That they're going to put together into a machine that's going to take like 10 kilowatts? That guy is like... Holy crap.

He's great. The absolute power density that those machines are going to have is insane. Yeah. This is like, it's really futuristic kind of. I mean, I don't know enough to say how realistic that is. How realistic is that? Is that legit? Is that like something that's actually going to get done?

I don't know. He's got the domain experience and expertise. And he says he's got like one of the top-notch chip guys in the world working with them on this so we will wait and see god bless it manifests into something something awesome but like it sounds like they want to make all these machines just out of the box you'll just be able to plug them in and they'll just synchronize with whatever variables you want whether it's temperature the grid the prices and yeah they won't have to have a lot less of this kluge aftermarket firmware stuff that they're working with right now where they've got to they've got to rig everything up and everybody's got their own

like proprietary black box that they use to sync with the grids and then different apps everybody somebody makes something that's too similar and then they then they start like suing each other that yeah this stuff. It was getting silly there for a little while because it's like, no, you're all coming to the same conclusion from your own unique paths. It made sense. Yeah. It sounds about right, eh? Yeah.

You've got an awesome load, and it's got a very important role to play in the future of our power systems. I'm looking forward a lot to your talk play in the future of our power systems. I'm looking forward a lot to your talk. I'm glad you previewed it. Now, as always, with the guests here, tell people before we leave where they can find you, what you're working on, and if there's anything else you want to plug, books, articles, good stuff as far as resources. What's all yours, buddy? Yeah.

Nuclear Bitcoiner. It's in the name there uh on x on the the noster whichever whichever noster app you prefer on that i won't read out my n pub but um a few a few podcasts that i like to keep up on nuclear stuff was decoupled was mentioned earlier titans of nuclear is another good one they've uh actually been doing a series recently specifically about data centers and actually that's one one gripe that i want to mention is that they only started to really talk excitedly about data centers and nuclear power after amazon bought the data center that terawolf and cumulus coin had already really building they like it seems like i've been

poking around and it seems like the only person that has any awareness of this is is mark nelson like he's great on this topic but everyone else is like mark nelson people who don't know is energy bantz on twitter right i'm pretty sure yeah yeah he's a great follow uh actually we're gonna he's gonna be on a twitter space thursday morning with uh that we do uh i would say the the daily bitcoin show or something nice but uh definitely worth checking out he's going to be there um but it's uh yeah everyone it they it's it's like the they're talking about it as if like well this is the first manifestation of the the data center with the nuclear reactor it's like well no come on guys we were already on this like two years ago terrible was way out of the game and then whatever justin orkley is doing with Standard Power in Ohio, they've got similar plans.

It looks like they had pretty good foresight to start building these data center campuses well in advance of the broader public really starting to catch on. And I just saw another one. Where the hell was it? Bitcoin is always ahead of the game here when it comes to... In Connecticut. Yeah, Connecticut. One of their reactors, they're talking about building a 300 megawatt data center bitcoin is always ahead of the game here when it comes to connecticut yeah connecticut one of their reactors they they're talking about building a 300 megawatt data center behind the meter nice

nice so this is it's so it's so good it's so good well it makes sense because there's there's great security you don't have to build the infrastructure you save on a lot of delivery costs and yeah the power is there. So yeah, a big, a big static data center plus like a modest size, like flexible load center, like the Bitcoin miners. Yeah.

And that'll be like the perfect set. Like, cause then you've, you've got a lot more flexibility in your nuclear powers. If you've got that type of load associated with it. Yeah. I'm sorry. I keep talking.

It's just the ideas keep coming it's like oh yeah well this is why this is why we have you on man because like you're you're a wealth information and i think for all the podcasts that are going on out there you know len and i do a show every week where we talk about bitcoin economics blah blah it's fun it's it's interesting it's i think it's important but there's a lot of stuff that's going on on the periphery and nuclear, Bitcoin, grid management, and the way these things work together in an environment and during a time when there's demand for consistency, effectiveness, and price efficiency, this is important. And it's a big thing that we can really grab onto as a community and say, look, we got an answer for this. We've been working on it. We have proof of concept and we have proof of execution in a number of places

around the world. Listen to us when we give you this information. So yeah, I mean, Ryan, it's always good to have you. Do you want to give a price prediction before you go? Or no, for the conference? But how many K by conference day? I got to start asking all the guests that because I have another guest tomorrow who's not a Bitcoiner. So I won't be able to ask him how many K by conference day. Oh, we're going to piss people off and we're going to go, we're going to go down to 50 K cause I've got,

I've got stacking goals here. Like I would, I would love another nice dip like that before we go off the crazy town. Like, I'm not hopeful that we're going to get it. Like the other week when it was well like in canadian dollars because that's what i see it at we're like in 90 95 000 or something it was almost 100k or it did get to 100k but like the other day just before i got paid it had dipped down to like

87 and then two hours before my paycheck hits it's 93 again you son of a bitch this is the nature of the game buddy it's nature oh yeah if you want it to do something it'll yeah it'll keep you keep you guessing but i love it ryan mcleod nuclear bitcoin follow him like his stuff and uh until next time everybody we'll uh we'll see ya yeah thanks for having me are you a fan of the old school nhL 94 game on the Genesis or SNES? Why not check out my show, the NHL 94 podcast, from tournaments and tactics to the people who make up this community. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts or find it on YouTube.