The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The CBP - Ronny Avendano, Bitcoin Payments In El Salvador

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES This week we welcome Ronny Avendano (https://x.com/ronnyavendano_), the Co-Founder & CEO The Bitcoin Hardware Store (https://x.com/tbhs_sv) located in El Zante, El Savlador. Ronny has been a bitcoin advocate for some time, and he has first hand experience of El Salvador's adoption of bitcoin as a currency. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠ Discord: ⁠ ⁠⁠https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX #Bitcoin #mediumofexchange #elsalvador A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetwork This show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠⁠https://easydns.com/⁠⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer

The Canadian Bitcoiners podcast is just two guys and maybe a guest or two discussing Bitcoin, Bitcoin equities, and the related macroeconomic space. It's not meant to be financial advice, so please, if you're doing any investing, after listening to our program, do your own research, do your own due diligence, and understand that any money you invest can be lost. The show is meant for entertainment purposes only, and we hope you enjoy the program. Friends and enemies, welcome to yet another edition of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. I'm Len, and I'm going to be doing this one without Joey. Joey has the night off. He's been doing quite a few interviews lately and

i want to thank him for carrying the torch and i think i have the next few interviews in a row but either way let's not talk about the future let's talk about the present because today i have ronnie coming on the show and we'll be chatting about a few different things and i look forward to hearing about his journey from toronto over to el El Salvador and what's going on over there. But before we dive deep into that, a couple of things I got to talk about. Number one being EasyDNS. They sponsor our show. We're thankful that they sponsor our show.

And they also host our website, CanadianBitcoiners.com. That's a shameful plug for our website. But it wouldn't have been hosted if it wasn't for them. EasyDNS, they do a great job for providing our hosting services. You have a lot of different options. You can migrate your email services over there. So if you already have email services and you want to just migrate it over, you can. If you already have a website, you want to migrate it somewhere, they'll be happy to accept your business and to show you the ropes and get it done.

A lot of other options too. You have virtual private servers over there. You could do Nostra relaysays you could do nodeless implementations you could do quite a few different things but things that you know if you think about it like a lot of them are private a lot of them are secure and another good thing without with easy dns is you can pay with bitcoin they'll take your dirty fiat if you want if you want to take pay them with canadian dollars they'll be happy to take it they might even take american for what i understand but either way they'll take your canadian for sure but they will take your bitcoin if you want to pay with that that's another good thing about that then because

their services are and is top notch a lot of other competitors they've come and gone but easy dns has been around for decades this is plural they've been around since the late 90s and why have they survived so long while it's the level of service they provide. Mark and his team, top notch service. Like if, for example, they built, they helped build our website from the ground up. So you got web hosting, DNS purchases, email hosting. You're not going to get rugged using easy DNS. And if you use our promo code CBP media and you sign up with them, you're going to get 50% off your initial purchase. Second, we have bull Bitcoin. It's the second sponsor of the show. We're very thankful for them for sponsoring the show as well. You can buy Bitcoin over there. You can sell your Bitcoin. You can sell and buy on chain when fees get a little higher, which I think they start getting a little higher today, but they're still not astronomical. You have the option. You could do it lightning. So lightning, nice, simple, fast, safe. You know, you have the option you could do with lightning so lightning nice simple fast safe you know you have the option over there to do that but not just simply just

buying and selling bitcoin you could also use your bitcoin and through bull bitcoin you can start paying your bills you could pay like your electricity bill your mortgage whatever a lot of different options over there where you could use your book your bitcoin and you could also use them to buy gift cards and with those gift cards you can then spend that in the real world so you're like indirectly spending your bitcoin when you go to say home depot or 14os or wherever the heck you go to spend your dirty fiat well in this case you're going to be spending your bitcoin indirectly so you're living on the bitcoin standard so well with that being said, I want to bring on Ronnie onto the show. Ronnie Avendejo.

Did I say that right? Avendano. Avendano, sorry. And so you, I've watched quite a few of your interviews. I've listened to them, watched them. Your history, Ronnienie is very interesting because you are canadian you are salvadorian but you were born and raised in toronto and then migrated to el salvador but i don't want it to talk about that i want to hear you say it i

want to hear your story who is ronnie how did you start? And eventually how you came to be a Bitcoiner. But I want to start from way back where? When you were in Toronto. I want to you, left, or as you've heard, they left El Salvador back in the 80s. And excuse me here, I just noticed something. Oh. On the video side, he's doing a nice wipe that looks like. Yeah, I had my privacy cover on my laptop there. I love it. This I love. Ladies and gentlemen,

and everybody else, this is the guy you want to talk to. And somebody has the privacy cover on the webcam on his computer. Of course. We sell privacy covers here at the store. So come on in and we'll make sure that you stay private. But yeah, you know,

and I got all that stuff from being in Toronto. So I was born in Scarborough, spent most of my time in Scarborough, grew up there. Then the city of Toronto, since Scarborough amalgamated into Toronto, I think it was, it might have been during my lifetime, maybe late, mid 90s, if I'm not, correct me if I'm wrong. But Scarborough was its own jurisdiction, then joined the GTA whenever that was established. I remember that. So I hope I was in the area or I wasn't being lied to. So I grew up in Toronto, went to school in Toronto and was a Toronto boy through and through. And, you know, it was a nice place, definitely.

Scarborough was actually very beautiful. It's one of my favorite places on earth, you know. It's a beautiful lakeside, beautiful communities, great memories as a child. But I decided that during COVID and even before then, through traveling the world, that Toronto, I guess the world was bigger than Toronto. You hear this all the time, and I still don't really understand it because it just happens everywhere. But when you're in Toronto, you think you're in the center of the universe.

Let me tell you, when you're in Resonte, you think you're in the center of the universe. Let me tell you, when you're in Resonte, you think you're in the center of the universe, but we're so insignificant, right? But that feeling of Toronto and what it was just led me to want to see other things. And so I started traveling, thankfully, due to some friends at a young age that I met in Toronto that come from other parts of the world as well. Toronto is a very multicultural place.

And I was very blessed to experience things at such a young age. Because now that I live here in El Salvador, I've met people that before the new regime, government, whatever you want to call it, system. Before then, these kids weren't even leaving their own hometowns. So it made me realize how privileged I really was being from Toronto that my father took the chance to leave El Salvador when it was rough during some of its roughest times and was able to, you know, start a new life back in Toronto. So I'll always be grateful and thankful for what it was. But I decided it was time for something different. Wasn't really into

Bitcoin. I mean, my school background was finance, was marketing, was business in general. Studied at Ryerson University at the Ted Rogers School of Management. So for those of you guys who remember when it was called Ryerson, for those who don't, it doesn't really matter to you. I'm old enough to remember it being a polytechnic.

Polytechnic University. I remember those days. That's how old I am. How far we've come now to, I don't even want to tell you what it's called. I just don't even know where I went to school even better. But no, it was a great business school. I met a lot of great friends, great people, great mentors, people that I look up to and experienced all that. But life here in El Salvador and just throughout the world kind of intrigued me since a majority of the population lives outside of places that look like Toronto. It's one in few, you know, one in a few major cities.

And so the rest of the world lives up in totally, totally different universe, different problems, different different issues, cultural, traditional, whatever you may be, financial economics. Right. But I wanted to I needed to get out of Toronto. And because my family was from El Salvador, I decided to come down to El Salvador and put my skills to use,

things that I had learned while I was in Toronto, put them to use and see if these use cases, one of them being Bitcoin, was real and where we could go with it. So that's what led me to opening up the Bitcoin hardware store, really immersing myself into Bitcoin. I wasn't in any of the spaces that I am now with the Bitcoin community. And I landed a lot of you guys, Jamie, we were just talking about backstage. Guys have been doing this Bitcoin thing for a while now. Some old school guys that I, sorry, I don't want to say old school, but OGs, you know, you guys are, to me, you guys are OGs.

And I never got a chance to meet any of you out there while I was out there. But just putting all these things that I've learned from being in Toronto, being in Ontario, living in that society and putting it to use somewhere else has led me here. So that's a little bit about my background. That's cool. I'm curious, when you moved to El Salvador, just a few years ago, this decade, did your family come along with you? Or did you go by yourself? No, I totally came by myself. They decided not it wasn't the right time for them. I had told many of my close friends and family that I was going to make the move, at least for a little while. And this was pre-COVID. So you're right. I only moved back here about four years ago, now that I actually put it into perspective and count out the days and give it a full date. But it was pre-COVID when I had the

idea that I was going to spend some more time outside of Toronto. I really enjoyed that nomadic lifestyle or something different, maybe not totally nomadic because at first that was the plan, but then I never left El Salvador. So I realized I didn't really want to be nomadic. I just wanted to find a place where I could have a bit of an impact and have my ideas flow and not being stopped by, you know, legislation. It's just red tape. So that's what led me here and led me to travel. You know, the digital world was enticing to me at the time and still is. That's why I'm in Bitcoin. You know, I could be nomadic if I wanted to, but I definitely want to focus on the inside of a load.

I feel like this is a great place to be. So I it wasn't maybe it wasn't even needing to be nomadic. It was just me needing to find the right fit for for me. And so I came down here and I loved it so much. You know, things are obviously difficult. You have problems, challenges that you're going to come across, some that are specific to El Salvador and some that are more broad that you'll really experience anywhere you go. And it was, yeah, it was fun. So I decided to, I decided to stay. And now it's been four years since I essentially came back to El Salvador. And I've seen this change, which is why I learned about Bitcoin, because I've been able to see this happen in front of me. And just the curiosity led me to really want to go deep down the rabbit hole, dive deep in, because I was surrounded by fantastic entrepreneurs, fantastic thinkers, people that I look up to in the Bitcoin space.

And so I just thought it was the perfect place to be. So I came down here and then I stayed here, actually. So I've already been here. And I think the Bitcoin space is really what nailed, put that last nail in the coffin, which said, I'm going to lay some roots here and try and see what I can build and what I can do instead of having to go look around elsewhere. The first place I landed, it just happened to be my new home. Very cool. I have to ask you a question now that's going to be a little bit off the beaten path before we get back to the topic at hand.

What's your favorite fruit that you're able to grow and eat locally that you could not grow in Toronto? I'm curious what's gotten your heart over there. That's a tough one because it depends on what month of the year you ask me, right? Give me a few of that. I don't care.

Right now, for example, I'm missing what's called ananona. Ananona is like this custard. I think it's a sweet sap is what they call it in some places in English. So like Jamaica and the Caribbean, they call it a sweet sap. But it's this nice little fruit. And it just opens up their seed and you eat the flesh around the seed. It's only around for like two, three months in the like December to January, December to February region. So right now I miss that totally.

You know, I'm just like, oh wish i had some some some anona and then when november rolls around i'm just waiting for mango season like oh my god mango season please i'm waiting for so long right now it's mango season i've been eating mangoes every day for the past like three two months i'd say it's non-stop so it depends on what type of the of the year you ask me right now it's definitely the Anona. So it switches between the Anona. Yeah. Good answer. So I want to divert back. And I want to talk a little bit about Bitcoin. And because you have a financial, we'll call it a Fiat background. Yeah, definitely. Did that hinder you in any way when you were starting to learn

about Bitcoin? Because you figure when you learn learn about when you're in the financial world, the fiat world, it's very difficult to pull yourself out, to be unplugged and look at something else. So did this hinder you in any way when you're trying to learn about Bitcoin for the first time? Oh, totally. Totally. I tell this story pretty often. I mean, people might have heard it already. But when I was looking and researching into Bitcoin when I was, this was 2016, that I vividly remember, might have been even a little bit earlier. But I was asking myself just the fiat questions like, you know, what are its dividends? What are, who are its, you know, CEO? What is its P-E ratio? What kind of earnings does

Bitcoin make? And I was unable to answer any of those. So I was like, this is just a ridiculous speculative asset. I don't understand it. So I'm just going to forget about it. And so that happened to me. People assume that because I have a financial background that

that's what got me into Bitcoin. And it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Having this financial that that's what got me into Bitcoin. And it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Having this financial background is actually what kept me from Bitcoin. Because had I been able to experience Bitcoin for the first time in a different country, I think I'd understand if I didn't have the financial, let's just say if I didn't have the financial privilege of living in a country that has this fiat system, I wouldn't have understood what the, what Bitcoin was trying to solve. Now,

after traveling a little bit and then returning back to understanding what Bitcoin is, it's just like, Oh my God, this thing is, this technology just makes so much sense. I don't understand what people why am I can I can't be the only one seeing this. But it really was that that legacy financial privilege that kept me from if you want to call even a privilege. Right. Because it depends on what side you see it from.

But it was this knowledge or it was this information, knowledge, information, the data that was given to me from the legacy system that actually made me question Bitcoin. It's almost as if you, I don't know if you've seen this meme or this image, where if you ask like a fish to grab, climb a tree you're gonna give it an F because that's not what fishes do but if you ask it to swim it's going to give you an A so that's kind of how I felt that and so Bitcoin to me wasn't making any sense I I I got the privacy aspect the security the that was like, all right, cool. This is cool. But financially and in terms of I'm seeing it related to as a stock price, I guess, or as an asset price, a commodity price, not a stock price, a commodity price. On these markets, I was comparing it to all of those financial instruments.

And they're nothing alike whatsoever. Yeah. I'm curious because, you know, you grew up in toronto you went to school in canada so you had education you were in a fiat world and then you picked up and you moved to el salvador i'm curious what your family thought of all that especially with your connection with bitcoin did they were they supportive of you were they questioning you were they giving you some cautioning words? I'm curious, what was their role in all this?

My father was definitely supportive of me. He would tell me, give me advice that I would definitely have in the back of my head. My mother definitely thought it was crazy.

She lived life here. So she went through her traumas. She understands. She has her reasons to not want to be down here and for her to warn me to not, you know, what are you doing down there? But she hadn't seen the country and especially the Bitcoin like I did. This opportunity, they don't understand. Actually, I can't say they don't understand Bitcoin. They definitely understand a lot of the things about Bitcoin.

They just don't feel the urgency to really make that switch. Whereas I do. I'm looking towards my future. And Bitcoin is just the most simple, it's the most asymmetric bet that you could make. So I had to throw that in there. To me, it was that calculated and like, yeah, that's what to me was that asymmetric bet that I just had to make. Whereas for them, they're retired now, they're living in their in their place in scarborough they're they're pretty content with the way things are i mean i'd be too if i bought a house when i

was in the 80s back in toronto who wouldn't you know if you bought a house pre-2000s who wouldn't be content uh right now just only having a place to live is something that you if you live in the big cities or if you're in toronto you're in canada just having a place to live is something that you, if you live in the big cities or if you're in Toronto, you're in Canada, just having a place to live is kind of like a prize these days. So, yeah, they thought I was crazy. My friends, I don't think, I don't think they all thought I was crazy because they already thought I was crazy beforehand. So this was nothing. There's nothing new to them. This guy's nuts.

So let him go do what he needs to do. And, yeah, my sister, I have a younger sister, and I think she didn't even know what to think. I don't think she's ever expressed it to me. She tells me she misses me and that she'd like to come down here one day, actually. So I hope that I'm able to inspire her to make the move that she needs to make that's best for her.

Maybe it's a similar, maybe it's not, maybe it's something else. If Toronto just doesn't feel like the right place, if Canada doesn't feel like the right place for you, then the way I see it is if you have an education, you're brought up in Canada and Toronto and these what used to be really great places then there's a lot that as Canadians we can share with the world the world is waiting for us Canada is such a melting pot a lot of the best minds have moved to Canada from from past traumas let's call them and so for me I kind of felt it as my responsibility to go back and take what I learned here in Canada or those different experiences.

Like I mentioned before, some of these people are now where I live in Bitcoin Beach. Only now are they starting to leave the towns and experience a little bit of what's what's outside of the walls here, these imaginary walls. Right. Back then, it wasn't an imaginary wall. It was violence. But we being from Canada, like we are super, super lucky. So I want people to know if you're in Canada, go out there and see what you can do. You can. There's a lot that we can offer. Keep an open mind. Talk to the locals. Try and really immerse yourself into that local community. And I'm certain that you can find a way to benefit the community.

I feel very strongly about that. I'm very proud of my Canadian roots and also very proud of myself and Dorn roots. I think that's what's made me the person that I am today. Yeah. And I say it every so often, no matter how much people may be down on things, Canada in comparison to a lot of other places in the world, world is extremely nice politically stable economic stable you're not having riots the economy is running pretty good

there's so many things you could look at it in a positive light yeah you just have to you know like we'll go even further like your father for instance he he he was a coffee picker, right? That's what his – I mean, he left – later on, he did pick coffee when he was younger. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He left, I think, at the age of 30. He would have been 30.

That's a tough life. Yeah, same age I left. He was always working, but his last job would have been at an industrial factory. I couldn't tell you what exactly he did there right but that was one of his last legs while he was in and that factory is still there today it's one of the bigger steel yeah like steel rod manufacturing companies in the south that's producing you know the steel rods here support beams all that sort of stuff i would imagine like comparatively he didn't earn a heck of a lot.

I mean, you probably was earning... Was it the Cologne at that time? I don't know exactly how much you would have been earning, but... In Canada, you have so much more opportunity. Granted, inflation is high. I'm not trying to say things are fantastic, but it's a heck of a lot better than a lot of

other places. People need to open up their eyes. I'm curious, though. Your father, where he was picking coffee of a lot better than a lot of other places. I just, people need to open up their eyes. I'm curious though, your father, where he was picking coffee, it was adjacent to a volcano. Is that volcano active? No, no, not right now. Okay. Fair enough. If you've come to San Valor, though, I would definitely recommend seeing the lava.

What's it called? The, just the lava valley, I think it's called. And so you just see all this volcanic rock. It's just really black and it's just everywhere. And there's actually a racetrack. Central America's longest racetrack is in that little valley area. So it's a pretty cool place to go. That's where my family is from. That's where I used to go visit as a kid.

And it's a beautiful place, El Salvador. Very underappreciated, I'd say, but it's a special place. And fertile and rich ground, I would imagine, right? I went to a waterfall. If anybody listens to this and comes to El Salvador and they want to go to a very quiet quiet virgin waterfall, hit me up. I'll take you there. It's just so beautiful. Where I grew up was, you know, had all types of fruits. I remember sugarcane. We used to, I think we still do crop sugarcane at the house that I grew up in, in El Salvador. Just my absolute favorite thing, sugarcane, mangoes,

jocotes, like all these different salvadoran fruits that are just to the area and so it was it was great memories back then and uh just making great memories again now as i'm older so there's two initiatives that you've started over there one being el zante rentals yeah second being the bitcoin hardware store let's talk about the elzonte rentals first uh the website ronnie it's not working what's up no when i go check it on google and touch it just it says it can't find it oh man easy dns our sponsor don't be able to hook you up but yeah i mean it's not working the last time I checked. But tell me a little bit about this, this Alzonte Rentals. Thank you for letting me know.

Yeah, no, it's so when I was in Toronto, I was doing some media work and got into 360 technology. And so I was able to work with some real estate agents, putting their listings using virtual reality as a way for people to check out the listings. So when I came to down to El Salvador, I thought of that as a way before Bitcoin to make some money, put things together and offer this way of people seeing these properties and seeing where you could stay for a little while while you're on vacation. And it was a short term rentals or short and long term gotcha yeah short and long term um people here are willing when i got to el salvador again i think i might have said this already there was just so much potential um people really again didn't really go outside of the of

their neighborhoods um technology technological literacy i would say, isn't the highest. Just, you know, literacy is a big problem here. So it was a way that I had seen in other places. So I wanted to offer this solution to people here as well. Places for them to be able to rent their places, show off their places. Most of them I had actually put on Google Maps originally in just opening up their business listings, opening up. So all this working with these guys individually led me to opening up

just El Sante Rentals as a way to consolidate everything into people who accept Bitcoin as a method of payment and who are renting places out in El Salvador in El Zonten more specifically than anything. And actually, it's terrible that I didn't even know that the webpage was down because I have a couple more listings that I'm adding to the page shortly.

So I will get to that as soon as I can, that I promise you. Yeah, I just tried checking earlier today. It wasn't working. Give me an idea about, say, I want to rent something modest. I don't need something very large, maybe in a flat. I just want to basically sleep there. But what sort of amenities would I get? Do you have all kinds of different options? Yeah, there's options for all sorts of budgets, let me tell you. So the one

thing that you're not really going to get unless you're paying for it as a premium is hot water. So, you know, hot water is the one thing. Do not expect to get absolutely anywhere unless you're paying a super premium price for it. It's just not in our culture. It's super hot out here. So most of the water, if you take a shower in the afternoon the water will actually be like lukewarm uh if you take a shower during the day and you might get on some cold water it's cold because it comes straight there's no there's no heating behind it but in

terms of the amenities you're looking at places that you know have ac internet uh some can be modern um some can be bunk beds it can be bunk beds. It can be shared accommodation versus a whole flat for yourself, places with a pool, places without a pool, hostels. You'll find everything. People have different budgets. You have some really great projects with a lot of funding. And so they're really nice. But you can look if you're staying for a short term place here, and there's something that you can find from something as little as, you know, 50 bucks a night to,

you can pay as much as $300. I've seen a night for, for hot water. Plus, you know, really nice accommodations. There you go. If you want hot water,

you're going to pay through the notes. Yeah. The basics are always going to be, you know, supplied. And, you're going to pay for the notes. Yeah. The basics are always going to be, you know, supplied. And if you're looking for something mid

or long-term, you know, you can find a little, a little flatter room for $650, $750 a month for, for something,

you know, modest, but you'll have all your amenities. You'll have your kitchen, you'll have your AC, you'll have a nice size bedroom, a five-minute walk to the beach at most.

And then, you know, you just add depending on what else you want, if you like a pool or not. I'm not a big fan of the pools. You know, they look nice, they look pretty, but I never use them. So I don't pay for a pool. I do like my modern kitchens, though. I like having a modern bedroom. I like being able to connect and have really good Wi-Fi. So those things you do end up paying for. Now, dumb question. Safety and security. What would you rank it in these areas?

What would I rank it? I'd rank it a hundred. Yeah, because that's what people like. Not primarily. It's one of the things people think of when they're going somewhere is, I mean, I would hope they value safety and security as very high. So in terms of that, are they pretty much safe? relocation specialist really came from the idea that I have my, you know, my Toronto luxuries, modern things that I like. And I know many people who are coming down from the U S and Canada or even

Europe are expecting certain things. And so, you know, for me, that was, that was, that was one of the reasons to start it was to help people find that place for them. But it's super safe. Like, I feel much safer here, to be quite honest with you, than I did really anywhere in Canada. It was, yeah, it was harder. I personally, like, going to big events in Toronto kind of traumatized me. And then the small towns where I'm not from,

I wasn't thinking anything bad was going to happen, but you never know. Toronto is not the safest place, in my opinion. And I feel much safer here. Definitely. Wow. You could be, you're walking in Bitcoin Beach, you could walk all night. Zero problem.

Actually, the ocean might be the only thing you have to be worried about. And then in San Salvador, I've walked around all night. Zero problem on the main streets. I might be the only one because it's not really much of a walking country. I'm honest. So you might be the only one out there. I love to walk. So I'm out at all times. And it's super safe. There's really, I think it'll blow a lot of people's minds when they

come down here and see what the San Salvador, what Nisante, what they're like. Plug the website. So in case anybody's listening or watching, they're going to want to check it out. Plug it. Well, I'll get it working. And elzantirentals.com. I have a few more listings that are coming up actually very soon. So I'm going to have to make sure that that's up and running over the next few days, if not the next 24 hours. Thank you. So another thing, and I mentioned it, is the Bitcoin hardware store. Explain what it is. I love the name.

I want to hear all about it. Thanks. I'm currently in it right now. And so it's an idea to make Bitcoin accessible to people. I was in my learning journey, my deep dive into Bitcoin. I did come across a lot of friction. I'd like to think of myself as somebody who can learn things very quickly. I love listening to tutorials and, you know, BTC sessions and the whole crew out there were some of the people that I learned Bitcoin from. And so to me, having Bitcoin accessible, just Bitcoin hardware wallets, really. That was the main idea, was to make it accessible

so that there's less friction and people are more willing and wanting to learn and feel more comfortable asking the questions. That human-to-human contact, that connection, having a face there, kind of available, someone that you can trust, available to answer all your questions and then have, excuse me, my eyes itching, having everything that you need available in one spot was kind of the, the reason I wanted to solve my own issues to be quite honest, honestly,

like I wanted, I saw a problem that I was having. And so I was like, this, this, this cannot be, this cannot be the case. It's 2024. Actually, I did open it in 2024. So we've only been open for three, four months. Kind of soft launched it. We didn't tell anybody we were opening it. We just, me and my business partner, Jamie Robinson, he's also from Canada. We put the idea together. We built the business plan. We reached out to some partners. We were working for a few months to get it together, found the building, finished the building, finished the interior of the building. And then we put the logo on it and we said, all right, guys, welcome. We're open.

So that was four months ago. And it's, you know, it's, it's fantastic. It's such a great opportunity to be able to serve the people here of El Sonte, El Salvador, because we get Salvadorans.

I just, today was, was actually full of Salvadorans coming in here, looking for answers, looking for, for someone to just help them out. And so that's always been my thing that I'm looking really, and I think this goes to the Bitcoin ethos, is value for value. And I'm trying

to figure that out. And I'm not scared to put myself out there. And so the Bitcoin hardware store was a way for me to, again, offer that service to help people, help them feel more comfortable, get them really settled into what Bitcoin can be, how to use it, what are some of the best practices for Bitcoin, how to use the Bitcoin network, how to secure your Bitcoin. Things, you know, to me, it was just, it was a no-brainer. And thanks to Jamie, we were able to knock it off fairly quickly. And we're just trying to serve a purpose. We're able to knock it off fairly quickly and we're just trying to

serve a purpose. We're trying to help people out. So we're open from 9 to 5 pretty much every day. Sundays we either are at the Bitcoin Farmers Market or we may be closed. We update our surprisingly enough, we update our Google listing

all the time. So if you want to come, we're typically open, but just check on Google. We'll have updated that on a daily basis. Twitter, we're pretty active. Instagram, I'll see what else we can get out there. But if you want to come see us in person, come to El Salvador, come to Bitcoin Beach, come to El Zonte. Spend two days. I promise you, if you spend two days here, you'll be able to catch us one of those two days.

So somebody that goes to El Zonte will easily find your store? Yeah. There's no specific address you've got to provide just in case? There's no addresses in El Salvador. It's just El Zonte, Bitcoin Beach. If you ask for the Bitcoin hardware store, there's only a few roads here, right? So you can't get lost.

Got it. I got to ask, when people come to your store and approach you, what are some of the questions they approach you with? I'm curious what... I would imagine these are new people

or people that are curious. So I'm curious what's in their head, what they're asking right at the get-go. So today was special. Today was a strictly no bitcoiners day so not i no one that i know from twitter no one that's messaged me no one that says oh i've seen this store before like it was none of those it was i'd say everybody was a newbie to bitcoin and so today was it was it was a special day uh we was a newbie to Bitcoin. And so today was a special day.

We had a few people in here who were just like, what is this? What do you mean Bitcoin hardware? I actually had a few people come in today who were looking for nails because they thought I sold hardware. Yeah, they thought I sold Depot or something, right? That's awesome. Yeah, I had a few people come and ask me for nails and duct tape today. And I was like, no, it's not that type of hardware.

But I had some Salvadorans, mostly a couple of people who are from outside of the U.S., living outside of the U.S., but have Salvadoran roots, coming down here to talk about my experience, what kind of their ideas for a business, asking me for some guidance and ideas. And so I gave it to them. I had somebody who wanted to use Bitcoin to send remittances. First time ever using Bitcoin. Salvador, and he needed to send $7 to somebody using Bitcoin. So he's like, yeah, they told me that you could come help me do this. I was like, yeah, of course. Don't worry.

Come on. We'll show you around. We'll show you how you can use Lightning. So I showed him how to use Lightning. I had these other two guys, not Salvadoran, ask me about Bitcoin, what it was, how to use it. They had an idea, obviously. They asked me if they could pay with their Coinbase account. And so I said, you know, maybe.

Let's see if the Lightning Networks. I pretty much said to them that I named a few. I named a few companies where maybe you getting your Bitcoin off of those things isn't their top priority. So they make it very difficult to use Lightning. Whereas if you use a Lightning-based solution it is the easiest thing in the world um so I speaking to them about that got them set up with a a Bitcoin wallet in a few seconds um shout out to coinos.io and got them set up really quickly no kyc showed them how to use our Bitcoin Lightning ATM machine that we have in here. So you can buy Bitcoin with your dirty fiat, as little as five cents,

and we'll send you Lightning directly to any Lightning wallet. So I onboarded them onto Lightning. They loved it. They said they were going to go buy some beers later with that money and spend some sats. Well, the question, I mean, I got a few questions now. Yeah, go for it. Well, first off, I would imagine people in El Salvador, they're not earning a heck of a lot.

I mean, their wages, I would imagine it was able to sustain themselves. But in comparative to other countries, maybe like US, Canada, UK, it's, you know, it's. It's $450 per month, roughly kind of the average. Yeah. So I'm wondering, I mean, people are living, a lot of people are living like from hand to mouth, right? Like what they're earning. So how do you have them, how do you convince them to start buying and using Bitcoin when they're probably not going to hodl it? They're simply going to use it for transaction purposes.

I want to hear how you get around that challenge. Yeah. I mean, to be quite honest with you, I can't name you one person right now that I know that lives kind of that lifestyle you said. Hand to mouth, is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult. It's really about having to spend time with that person and figuring out their lifestyle and break down a budget that is honest and works for them because this is the only time that i really go back to my financial background in terms of learning about budgeting and sales and you know just your income statements and all this sort of stuff.

If you can hodl long-term in Bitcoin, I believe that the amount is almost insignificant. As long as it's a percentage of your earnings, it will change your life over the long-term. I think that's my thesis right now. If you take a percentage, start with 10, 20, or go hard and start with 30, and add it as your treasury, your savings, your absolute everything. This is what you want to save for a long-term 10 year move. Then this is the right move there. There, to me, there is no better answer. Again, it's just the

most asymmetric bet that I've ever seen. I, I'm a nobody, but this is the way that I believe that the asset is best used as. So I try to, to, I don't try. I tell them, I literally tell them this. Now, everybody is a different case. You know, um, I see a lot of people spending some money on things that maybe they shouldn't. It's hard to judge,

but yeah, there is room for, there is room for you to make a 10 year commitment and change your life. If that's what you'd like to do. And so I try to get this message across to everybody that I meet in person, anyone who asks me questions about Bitcoin. I literally say, listen, our Bitcoin K1 mini ATM machine starts with as little as five cents and you can start earning your first sats. If the average income of a Salvadoran is $450 a month, they can just put down $1.50 a day. That means either a couple of cigarettes, a can of pop, a beer, something, you know, use less electricity, use your phone less, something, $1.50 a day over the 10-year span, it'll change your life based on the life you're

living today. So I'd say that's the point that I'm trying to get across. I'm trying to say it in a manner that's specific, very direct, I'd like to say, but take in their feelings and their lifestyle. And so you really have to get to know somebody to be able to offer them the solution. But that's the solution that I think is what makes me feel the most comfortable because I don't like telling people to put everything into Bitcoin, to start accepting it

and having it as 100% of your treasury. Yes, that's what I do, but no, that's not what I'm going to advise just the regular person to do. That's not sustainable. Like you said, that's not what I'm going to advise just the regular person to do. That's not sustainable. Like you said, you can't. It's too volatile. So Bitcoin, the great thing about it is that I think it can be used by anyone, everyone. There's a way that you can incorporate Bitcoin into your life and it will make your life better. I truly believe that. But it's a very personal,

it's a personal thing. And so what I've tried to do with the store is have products that are cheap, accessible. I have a wide range of products that you can use to get started. Sometimes I'll even recommend like, you know, just like I did today. Guys, download this phone on your wallet.

Start now. Put some stats into there. I highly recommend you look into self-custody because that's what we focus on here at the store. That's what we're trying to tell people to do because it's such a powerful tool. But get them started easily. There's great products like Blink. There's great products like Ditto Banks. There's great products that are custodial products, but they're great to get people into it as quickly as you possibly can because the quicker you do it, the better of a chance that you're going to, you know,

the faster you learn, you know, compound is the ninth wonder of the world, compound interest, whatever you want to call it. So I try to really bring that basic understanding of finance to people at a level that anyone can understand. That's my real goal. Sometimes, you know, maybe it can be very direct, and I hope I get to people in a way that impacts them. But right now, I truly believe that. So that's typically what I tend to tell people. Again, I don't think it's worked with quite anybody just as of yet, because the ones who are the Salvadorans who are using it, I will tell you this. The Salvadorans that are currently using Bitcoin and taking advantage of Bitcoin are really intelligent entrepreneurs entrepreneurs people who have been running businesses for quite a while they're really starting to see the benefit that bitcoin has had to their business to their life uh to the country and so that doesn't

necessarily include the lower class because you know it just hasn't gotten to them yet we'd love to there's a lot of initiatives that are going out there and trying to help the community and educate the community and start with the kids i think that's a very of initiatives that are going out there and trying to help the community and educate the community and start with the kids. I think that's a very important part of it. Right. But the local, the average Salvadoran that's getting paid $450 a month, it's quite tough to break into. There is that there is still a large portion of entrepreneurs, people who are middle class, who are figuring it out. And I think it's important for them because the sooner they can figure it out, then the sooner that they can help out their fellow Salvadorans as well. These people have jobs to offer. They have opportunities

to offer for any Salvadoran that wants to work. And I see it here in Asante. Asante is growing. We have locals who are learning to speak english learning how to use technology you know the kids here are using bitcoin and i think that's so that's so incredible that's something that you can't measure just right now but later on in five ten years um i see huge potential for the for the salvadoran kids for the for the average salvadoran making 450 a month if you start today, in 10 years, you'll be on the boat with all of us. Now, the one thing I'm wondering about the Bitcoin adoption that may have hindered it, and there was some criticism, was the Chivo wallet and the rollout of it.

And even lately, I know somebody that traveled to El Salvador and reported back to me the Chivo experience wasn't all it was cracked up to be. So I'm wondering, are people still using it? And I want to hear your thoughts on the Chivo wallet. So I don't think anyone from Chivo will listen to this or even from the Salvadoran government. It's going to come after you. You better watch. No, I'm kidding. But if they are, there's a lot of potential to fix.

Right? Well said. There's a lot of opportunities to make it a lot better and give Salvadorans a better experience. It's not the worst. How about I put it that way? Okay. That's good. It's not the worst. It could be better. And I do wish that they would focus a little bit more on making that experience more seamless. I, I do use it. You know,

I find it works for me. It's, it's, it's not fantastic. 99% of the timing, it gets a good B, you know i find it works for me it's it's not fantastic 99 of the timing it gets a good b you know b what are the shortcomings of it it just is it on chain or is it lightning and if it's lightning is it can't finding a route or yeah so it's definitely lightning i've never had a problem with the on chain stuff on chain is perfect you know if you want to send money on chain then go ahead works It works really well. There's better, obviously, but it does the job. I've never had anything fail

via on-chain. But Lightning. Lightning needs a big, big boost. Routing, I definitely say, is a problem. I mean, I wish I even understood how to audit any of this stuff because I would love to give them my tips and

tell them if they could tell if I could see exactly what was wrong with it then I'd be able to give you a more definitive answer but lightning payments will fail lightning payments will take longer than the speed of light what else can I say oh Oh, for me personally, they had mentioned that they were going to allow people to send Bitcoin from their wallets to a sovereign bank. That hasn't for me hasn't worked ever. So that's a shortcoming. I tried it. And I think for for many people, if they were to do that, that might break some of the resistance to using Bitcoin if that worked. I truly believe that if that fiat off ramp worked, then Bitcoin or Chivo in and of itself would have a much better rating than it currently does.

I've never had it work. Maybe the, and I should ask, I should confirm this, maybe the business side of the Chivo to your bank account works. And if that works, well, thank God, minimum. So that's exchanging lightning sats for U.S. dollars. Correct. That's essentially what that is. Wow. Okay.

So that was, it's in the program. It's in the app. It was, I don't know if it was marketed. I can definitely tell you that. But it's in the app it was uh i mean i don't know if it was marketed that i can definitely tell you that but it's in the app it gives you the option to connect your bank account it gives you the option to send bitcoin and every time i've tried it said nope you cannot be declined your request after about 30 minutes all right cool whatever i don't know whose fault that is maybe that's not even chivo's fault that in and of itself though would be would be a huge boost for you i'm i'm i'm an

advocate for it for salvadorans i think it should be part of your toolbox i think it's as a salvadoran if you don't have it in your toolbox then i don't think you're using it correctly um that does have a bit of a learning curve it doesn't always work again the lightning payments um but you know just don't leave too much money on it yeah and that goes for any that goes for any hot wallet don't leave too much money on it 100 you mentioned something earlier in the show and i wanted to double back to that because i never heard about this the bitcoin farmers market oh yeah tell me. Tell me about it. What is it all about? The Bitcoin farmers market is a great initiative, meetup, place to hang out, market, Bitcoin

education place. It's the coolest place in El Salvador, even in the world, I'd say for sure. Location? So it's in El Sonte. Right now they're hosting at a place called Mango Plaza. And so it's in El Sonte. Right now they are hosting at a place called Mango Plaza. And so it's by the fourth entrance to our little beach town. If you ever need to find it, I recommend people look it up. It's on Google Maps. If you're ever in town, you're close by, come down and it is the absolute best five hours of any weekend that there could be. You get to meet some of the coolest people talking about the coolest ideas,

amazing projects, great stories, great products. And it's just a great overall atmosphere. It is one of the best things about Bitcoin. It's run by a couple of friends of mine who are also, someone from there is from Toronto, is Canadian as well, has a Canadian background. And so it's it's I recommend it. If you are coming to El Salvador, if you are coming to El Sonte, I recommend you look up the Bitcoin farmers market and choose the Sunday of the farmers market to come down here because it's every two weeks. So it's not every week.

It's twice a month. Plan your trip. I guarantee you this is another asymmetric bet. Just come down here for the Bitcoin farmers market. You get coffee, grass fed beef, raw milk, ice cream. We set up shop. What else? Chocolates, coconuts, mangoes, like everything you can think of. Artisanal jewelry. I could go on and on. It's just an absolutely great event. It's great seeing the Bitcoin community come out in droves. You get to meet so many wonderful people, people that you may only know from the Internet.

The next thing you know, you guys are in the same place. And now you're at the farmer's market and you're having a great conversation with somebody. So I definitely recommend anybody come down to plan a trip around Bitcoin farmer's market Sunday here in Azonte. And if you need a place to stay, go to azontelentals.com. Yeah.

I guess I got one question I want to ask you before we wrap things up. Bukele, I want to hear your thoughts on him because it seems like the country has turned around and it turned around when he appeared or when he became the president of El Salvador. So I want to hear your thoughts on the man Bukele. Yeah, from what I've seen, because I've never met him, I would love to one day. I would definitely love to have a conversation with him. He's got a nice sash, too.

I love his sash. I would love to have a conversation with him and learn more about him from his perspective and what he's been through. But his policies and what he's done with the country, what he started doing back when he first started running for offices in the country, his track record has spoken for himself. I've seen him, one of my favorite, I have two favorite

interviews, I think, of all time, and they're both him. One of them was with Tucker Carlson, where he talks about the Federal Reserve and not being federal and not having any type of reserve. It's just one of the greatest things I've ever heard. And then recently at the CPAC conference,

where he was just talking about the inflation and the currency and the taxes, just it's great and refreshing and just morally so full of hope and optimism and truth that I think is so important. And again, just refreshing to hear from somebody that is high up in your government. So yeah, I'd say that it's great to hear the country is moving in the right direction. It's great to be living in the country. I'm having a great time. You asked about safety. It is absolutely safe down here. Businesses are flourishing, businesses are growing, there is technology afloat, and the government is, you know, if not supporting you, not getting in your way, and letting you just kind of do it, be having an open mind, being supportive, to be quite honest, and it's great to be here. Projects are continuing to come.

So if you haven't already looked up what's happening in El Salvador, I'd highly recommend anybody who is interested in investing to come down here and see what's going on. Just like Bitcoin being the most, you know, I've said it a few times now and I don't want to go overboard, but El Salvador is just as asymmetric to me as Bitcoin is. It's so interesting for me that they're now both, you know, I'm a hundred percent in both of them now. But to me, it just feels like the right thing. And I recommend people come and verify, you know, come do your due diligence. Don't just listen to what you hear on the news. It doesn't matter what side it's on. I recommend people come down. He's, you know, one of my favorite things that he's done besides those two, you know, hit points that I think everyone talks about. One of my favorite things that he's done so far is that he made the public

government treasury address Bitcoin. Yes. To me, that is one of the coolest things that I could say that he's done. I don't know too much about him. I guess I'm new here, but from what I've seen, what I've heard, what I continue to see, it's just, it is a show. Like, it is, he's great at what he's doing. And I love being here.

I love seeing it. So I do hope to meet him one day again. Would love to have a conversation with him and just get his perspective and his ideas. Would love to know what's coming up and how I can help with the growth of the country and the safety of the country. I'm really looking forward to what's happening. And so I have, you know, just good things to say about him.

So the devil's advocate in me is going to ask you this question. Then because he has a shelf life, he had to jump through some real hurdles to get over the constitutional limitations for him to run again and be reelected. So he can't continually do this.

So there's going to be life with Opukele sometime. It could be in the near future or the distant future. Either one, he's not going to be there forever. So do you have any fears whatsoever for when he is no longer going to be the president and somebody else is going to be in his position? Do you think that they're going to be able to continue on with his legacy or do you think there's potential that this could be rug pulled?

Oh man, that's a great question and thank you for asking that because I, you know, it's a delicate topic because I don't want to think about what's, you know, after five years from now in terms of a governmental situation. But I do, if the country keeps moving in this step, then I'd say where I put my faith in, and it's faith at this point because we can't tell the future.

But for me, he seems like a great leader. He's making great moves. And so because I trust his track record, I'm 100% believing in the fact that he's a great leader and a great leader will find a great successor to him. The idea will live on. El Salvador is more than just him. And I think he's a great leader. So I think he will find somebody to continue this mission that wants to do the same thing that he, you know, that he's been able to do. And so he's, I personally feel that he's motivating a lot of people. He's putting out

the right incentives. He's making great decisions. And so all this leads me to believe that I should continue to trust his track record. And that as a leader, this is what I think a leader is. I think a leader will find the correct person to succeed them. So I don't worry about the rest, the noise, because everyone else is making noise. Even what I'm saying is noise, right? I can't tell you. I'm here. I could, you know, man, if he ever calls up on me to be the leader, like what I am, you know. Ben, if he ever calls up on me to be the leader, what I have to do.

So let's all focus and work together to try and build the El Salvador that we want to build. I think a couple of great Bitcoiners, Max and Stacey say this all the time, Big A and Bukele. We are here to build the El Salvador that we want to live in. That's why I'm here. You know, I want to build and I feel open to build because of Bukele, of his plan. I don't know what his plan is. I'd love to know what his plan is. So again, so I can help him out in whatever way he needs, because I'm having a great time here. It's a great place to be. The weather, the people, the safety, it's all in the right trajectory. So as a Bitcoiner and with Bitcoin values, I think that you have to think he's thinking long-term game. He's thinking that huddle and he's low time preference. So I have to believe that. I'm going to move in that direction

that's what's going to drive me to make my next moves to do whatever it needs to make sure Azante Rentals gets fixed up I need to that's the way that I need to think and I hope that not that I hope

I know the people that are coming here to El Salomelo think that exact same thing they're doing they want to see a better world so they want to come and they want to come help with that in that exact same way they're they're doing they want to see a better world so they want to come and they want to come help with that uh with that issue and so you know where i'm not i can't say i'm worried i can't say i'm thinking about the time past bukele because i think bukele will live on a legacy for forever you know he'll be one of those people that's just remembered

he's the first president to make Bitcoin legal tender. Come on. His legacy is going to live on forever. I'm not worried about El Salvador after Bukele. Maybe call me ignorant. I really don't care. I'm just going to be here supporting that and

enjoying every step of the way. Those are noble goals. You know what? We're past an hour, so I think it's a good time to wrap things up. Ronnie, before we do so, I just want to pass on the baton to you. Is there any last things you want to talk about, anything you want to plug, you want to just point people in the direction if they want to ask you questions? The floor is yours.

You can talk about whatever you want, man. Thanks, Len. Honestly, man, that was a great interview i really appreciate the questions i appreciate you having me on uh i love talking about in saudi it's it's just my favorite um having people come support come to the beach for me coming down here was a great like eye-opener i think you know, if you want to see something different, if you want to support, if you want to help, if you're full of energy, this is a great place to be.

There's so many things to see and do. And as a Salvadoran, I've always been told how unattractive it was to be Salvadoran, right? Because of the violence. People just within any community, that was the first thing they associated with being Salvadoran. And so I just want to say how beautiful this place is. I don't really need to come see it for yourself. It's absolutely stunning. There are so many people out here that are willing to help. There's people from all over the world who have

now been here for a few years. People have been here longer than I have. If you want to learn about Bitcoin, there's great Bitcoin resources. It's such a great community, a great group of people. I think that's the one thing that I'd say maybe the last thing I'd like to plug is just the community. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of different projects you can come be a part of. There's a lot of skills that are necessary, a lot of different people that are going to be needed to complete this project that is Bitcoin Country. I recommend that if you are looking to make that jump,

come over here, come see what it's all about. You know, check out the website once it's working. Message me on Twitter, message me on Telegram. Where can people find you on Twitter or Telegram? So they can find me Ronnie Avendano or just to be easy, they could also find me at TBHS underscore SV for the hardware store. So that's our, um,

that's our main pretty much way of contact. It's official TBHS underscore SV on Twitter. Uh, I'll probably be getting a Nostra client, a Nostra profile running up very, very soon. So I want to be on there. Um,

come down. If you come down to El Sonte, come find me. I'm here. This is my community. Come down to El Salvador. I'm sure if you ask anybody on the street, they'll guide you towards me. If you need me, I'm here for you. If you need me, just know that I'll be here to answer any of your questions. But there's so many great resources. Come check out the Bitcoin Farmmer's Market. Come check out Bitcoin Beach. There's a great project out called Bitcoin Berlin on the east side of the country. That's absolutely fantastic. There's so much to see and do.

Come check out San Salvador. Come transact in Bitcoin. Come see what safety feels like. Come enjoy the beach. There's so much to do. The sun is rising on El Salvador. Ronnie Avendano, I appreciate you coming on the show. And, yeah, we'll have you come on again, or maybe one of us or both of us could come down to El Salvador

and meet you in person. But thanks for coming on, buddy. This has been a great show. Thanks, Len. I appreciate your time. Thank you.