The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The Crypto Perjury Trap the IRS Doesn't Want You to Know About | The CBP 256 Pt 2

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Canada just lost 84,000 jobs. Goeasy blew up 57% in a day. And a former Prime Minister compared Bitcoin to Pokémon cards. Normal week.This episode covers the biggest Bitcoin hardware launches in years (COLDCARD Mk5 AND Jade Lightning — same week), the IRS form that forces crypto users to confess their entire history under oath, 20 million Bitcoin mined and what happens next, and more Canadian institutional collapse than we can comfortably fit in one show.🔑 COLDCARD Mk5 launches — Coinkite's latest generation drops from Toronto: bigger screen, better keys, faster NFC, still 100% air-gapped and Bitcoin-only. A Canadian product building financial sovereignty hardware for the world.🚨 IRS Crypto Perjury Trap — The IRS is attaching a two-page form to audit notices demanding your complete lifetime crypto history, signed under penalty of perjury. Tax attorneys say don't sign it. Here's why.🃏 Boris Johnson Calls Bitcoin a Ponzi Scheme — The former UK PM, whose own government tried to make Britain a "global crypto hub" in 2022, compares Bitcoin unfavourably to Pokémon cards. Michael Saylor, Adam Back, and community notes responded.⚖️ Coinbase vs. Bitcoin Tax Exemption — Marty Bent alleges Coinbase lobbyists told Congress "no one uses Bitcoin as money" to kill the de minimis exemption. Coinbase says it's a lie. The CLARITY Act currently excludes Bitcoin from exemption anyway.#️⃣ 20 Million Bitcoin Mined — 95% of all Bitcoin that will ever exist is now in circulation. The last million takes 114 years. The most important monetary scarcity milestone in history.🏛️ JPMorgan Sued Over $328M Ponzi — Jamie Dimon calls Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme. His bank allegedly provided two years of banking infrastructure to an actual one. Class action filed.🇨🇦 NOTABLE NORTH💼 84,000 Jobs Gone in February — Canada's worst non-pandemic monthly jobs number in years. Economists expected +10,000. Private sector is contracting. Youth unemployment above 14%.🔄 NDP Floor Crosser — Lori Idlout joins the Liberals, becoming the 4th opposition MP to cross the floor in 4 months. Carney is two byelection wins from a majority government.🔫 Shots Fired at US Consulate — Two men open fire on the US Consulate in Toronto at 4:30 a.m. The building held. No arrests. The RCMP is treating it as a national security incident.🎂 Carney: One Year In — The former central banker turned PM marks his first anniversary in Oslo. Polls are strong. The economy is softening. The floor crossings are working. What year two looks like.📊 Online Child Exploitation +347% — Statistics Canada confirms a 347% increase in online child sexual exploitation incidents since 2014. Luring specifically increased 65% in the last year alone.🥶 Soldiers Frostbitten in Alaska — 30-60+ Canadian Armed Forces members suffered frostbite during Arctic training in Alaska. Several were hospitalized. The CAF tried to keep it quiet.📰 Media Vetting Failure — A woman has appeared in multiple Canadian media pieces with questions now circulating about her identity. The bigger story: newsrooms aren't checking.Sponsors:easyDNShttps://easydns.comAnycast DNS, domain registration, web & email services — fast, reliable, privacy-focused.Pay with Bitcoin.Use coupon code CBPMEDIA for 50% off your first purchase.Bull Bitcoinhttps://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbpThe CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for buying Bitcoin simply and securely.Use the link above for 25% off fees for life.256Heathttps://256heat.com/Heat your home, garage, or office while earning more Bitcoin than it costs to run.Book a call with a hashrate heating consultant today.Bitcoin Mentorhttps://btcmentor.io/aff/90/Get hands on, white glove support with your Bitcoin storage and planning. Whether you need help with multi-sig or multi-generational storage, Bitcoin Mentor has you covered.

Welcome back, everybody to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast, the Mighty CBP. Here's always with your best friends, Joey and Len, show up to you, Business Cat. This week, Len, the IRS lays out a perjury trap in their forms, trying to get people to tell them where their Bitcoin is, how much they have, and whether or not it's KYC, I guess. We'll talk about that. The cold card, Mark 5, is released and has me thinking that I need to be. to make a buy. And of course, the Canadian economy is in a fucking tailspin. So with that in mind, here's the intro. Hang in. So, you know, the government can say whatever they want about this thing not competing. It's for black market only. It's for this for that. But they're really

treating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and Enemies, welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to 11. Joey. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and Easy DNS. The media is feeding the slop.

It's great to see you, buddy. What's a good word over there? Your neck of the woods. Another day, another dollar. A nice stay today, except for the wind. And now we're getting to the deep freeze, brother. Hell yeah. What's going on over there? Apparently it's supposed to dump again the snow tonight. I mean, it's kind of snowing right now where I am. Yeah, same, but it's just, no, I don't think anything's going to really accumulate.

Oh, okay. Okay, maybe I misheard that then. At least it's over here. I mean, we're not that far away. We live like 10 minutes apart now. Oh, no, I stand corrected. One to three. There you go.

See, yeah. Is it going to shovel that snow? No, man. It's going to be 20 degrees by the week or something probably at this time of year. Yeah, once you get to mid-January, I stopped showing. shoveling. That's kind of a kid. Just hang it up.

One day it will be the case I'll never shovel again, but still, we get dumped on large. I love it. I love it. Let's talk about the sponsors. EasyDNS is the title sponsor. What can you say about Mark that we haven't said already? I don't know. I had a nice chat with Mark today.

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on one of my computers here. I don't know where other laptop is. But it is like an emulator that plays PS2 games pretty well and I wanted to play it but like always I have no time so there you go. Sheld the arc raiders and play some NFL Street. No we have both Bull Bitcoin. They are the second sponsor of their show and they are not just our sponsor. This is the place where we buy and if I ever sell, I'd use them and I assume the same for you. I'm not sure if you ever sold any Bitcoin, but if you did, I'm assuming you're going to use Bull Bitcoin because they are the best in the game. non-custodial, right?

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We have a new sponsor. We'll talk about in the back half there that I hastily thought about what to say for. but it's not going to interfere with Twan's ongoing sponsorship of Hamilton, Brampton, man, that's untouchable. We're not looking for a new sponsor for that segment. It won't be for a long time. Okay, housekeeping then boost, or boost then housekeeping? You pick.

Dealer's choice. Well, I'll do the boost because they're short. I only have two, for whatever reason. Zoll was able to muster off the fountain platform. And so we have one, 500 stats at MoBTC Dick. He says, more of Scott, please. Great conversation. I appreciate that.

Second, we have Business Cat 7777s. He says, I appreciate the Rocky Ridge Radio with Boomer shoutout. Love you dudes. That's a good show. That's a good show. We should talk about, I mean, we'll do a free plug here for the new podcast on the block here, trying to make headway into your 40 hours per week. Boomer, Corey and Luke.

Business Cat, a new podcast called The 49th Parallel. That is two guys who are in Bitcoin talking about men's issues, which I really like. I think that's a good niche. I think a lot of Bitcoiners are probably here for the community as well as for the number go up technology. And sometimes it's hard as a guy to talk about things that are eating you a little bit. So I'm happy to see that. I started listening to the episode that they put out.

I think earlier this week or late last week today, I'm about halfway through. It's quite good. It's good to hear two guys just chopping it up. And they don't quite have the cadence down yet. But it reminds me of when you and I started to do our recordings then that, you know, even though we knew each other and had good rapport, once the mics are on, you got to really find out like when you're going to, you know, when you're going to throw, when you're going to run, all those different things.

They're going to get it. I'm sure they are. And I would suggest people start subscribing and listening to that now. I'm a little disappointed that it's not called the 41st hour why the podcast I think that's a great title they're probably regretting that they didn't pick that

when you were saying I thought that's going to be 40 you can take it it's run with it I have no problem I put this under the GPL version 2 license I open source baby I open source this shit man

on the housekeeping side, I had Francis on last week. And our guy, Andreas, cut up a nice intro for us, did some editing. And that is on YouTube and on the podcast. I think it's, that I put on the podcast feed? I think I did. I would only ask one thing as we continue to try and grow the YouTube side. Go to YouTube, put it on, watch it from front to back if you haven't. And even if you can't watch it from front to back, let it run, leave a like and a comment and just pump that thing in the Algo. I will tell you that most of the time of Francis on, it is an esoteric conversation. This one is also esoteric, but there are topics that I never thought we would touch on this show that we touched. And I think it was a really good

conversation. And Boomer in the chat is saying that he got a text message saying that someone let him know he had to listen to the interview with Francis is a must listen show. And as always, we went long. It's about 90 minutes total runtime. It's really good, man. We talked about a lot of stuff, a lot of the ills of society and where they came from. And I think the focus of the conversation turned pretty quickly from, you know, Bitcoin and the ethic of Bitcoin to how ethics always are downstream from aesthetics, which is something I've never considered, but really does make a lot of sense when you think about it. It's quite good. Francis is a great guest, you know, anyways, but, you know, we both had a little something in our cups and had a great

talk for about 90 minutes. Really good stuff. You guys really enjoy it. And there's visuals on YouTube, by the way. We did pull up a few visuals during the show. What's that? Did you name the bird? We didn't name the bird. Do you know about the bird? I heard of it.

It's in the chat. Francis lives in the jungle. So there is a bird. It's funny. He has the same mic that I use. And it's just the, it's one version newer than yours, which also has the same tech. If there's constant white noise in the background of your audio, it'll cut it out for you automatically.

So, for example, if you have like an air conditioner running or something, it'll cut it out. The miner's not quite loud enough to make that threshold, but if it was, you wouldn't hear it anyways. And Francis, at the beginning of the show before we started recording, was talking to his gardener and trying to get his gardener to stop the leaf blowing. And I was like, I can't hear that anyway. So don't worry about that. Whatever leaf flowing you think that I can make out in the background, your mic's going to cut it out as soon as it realizes that it's sort of a consistent sound. But the thing is, if a bird chirps, it's not consistent enough. And so there is a bird.

It's like part of the way through the video, but it goes away pretty quickly. It's incredible what's being done with hardware and software too. I know on the software side of thing, I don't want it to say too, too much, but some of the Microsoft products are, they suck. They suck in so many regards.

But in terms of like filtering out noise, some of the Microsoft products do a very good job. Agreed. Agreed. That's as far as you get with me talking positively about Microsoft. You're not even like your Xbox. I have a PlayStation do, right? I haven't turned on my Xbox.

I don't think this year. Funny, Crimson Desert comes out this week. You may not hear from me for like seven days straight. I don't even know what the fuck a Crimson Desert is. You got to look it up. People in the chat. If you guys are not looking up Crimson Desert, like tell me. I know, like just remember that it was Joey who put you on.

It's great. It is going to be so great. I cannot wait. I bought a PS5 Pro. I may even try. I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to buy it there or buy it for the CBP rig, which you and I have talked about how I don't use this for anything except the podcast, even though it's got all this firepower.

I am considering breaking that rule for this game. We'll see which platform will run it better. It's funny because I think we're in different ends of the spectrum with respect to the current generation of consoles. I am a huge, I'm hugely disappointed at the console. What kind of games you usually play? This is off the beaten path, obviously. But this is what you get with Lennon.

What kind of games you usually play that you've been disappointed? Because I can think of most consoles have like, five. really like smash hits that move genres forward that move platforms forward and this one has had Ragnarok I heard that is is that the

God of War it's God of War it's God of War Now I heard that somebody and I follow on Twitter he hates and he bashes that ridiculous because of the woke aspect he says the first game was not like that but the last one is huge What woke aspect?

I can't say it right now without getting my ass canceled. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. I know what you're talking about. But okay, I mean, sure, I guess. Yeah, I wouldn't consider that woke. The first game has, I would argue, just as much or just as little. The storyline changes. The storyline changed from the first one was, I think, I wrote revenge. Yeah, I recall correctly. The second one was about trying to just raise a boy type of thing. It's coming of age. Yeah, it's a good, it's a good story. I mean, those guys write stories that could be easily made into movies. But I don't think, and as we're going to find out with this Amazon series coming for God of War, there's just not the actors out there who can do it.

God. Amazon coming. You know, they're going to butcher this fucking. They will butcher for sure. The characters that the scenes they've already released are just like absolutely horrific looking. They look terrible. So, yeah, those two games, Horizon Forbidden West, I would argue is like probably the best looking game on any platform ever. And this is a few others that I, you know

It's not about looks, Joey. It's about gameplay. Horizon for Ben West is great gameplay too. I think it's one of the best games I've ever played. I can't speak. So what do you play? What do you play? I haven't seen a Legend of Zelda that is worthy of a new console.

That was a system seller when it came out. The Breath of the Wild was for the Switch. Right. I don't know how long. It's close to a year, nine months since Switch 2 came out. Came out in August, I think, right? No, I thought it was June of last year. Oh, maybe.

And so it's, you know, it's been very good for system sales, but you know what? The type of games they sell, I don't know, I'm not happy with it. Give me a 3D Mario. Don't have it? Yeah, I have a switch to you. I don't see an uncharted game. I'd love to see a new uncharted game for PlayStation.

Don't see it. I don't care. It's just the new consoles. I think we're in polar ends here that you seem to like. I don't. And that's cool, man. somebody has on their Twitter feed I fuck I forget who it is

they're gonna buy a PlayStation 5 at 300k and I was telling him don't he's a sly gumba Jeff that's it Gumba buddy don't man it's a my personal do your own research fucking stick with the old one man

yeah it's worth it oh teach their own teach their own anyway 100% yeah you have you could do whatever you want with your money that's the beautiful as long as you have access to it you could do whatever you want with it Now they'll be blown 15 minutes.

Let's talk about the IRS in the States. The historical digital asset form? Is that what do you want to talk about? That's essentially what it is. It's a relatively new form that was released by the IRS. And it's essentially a questionnaire that they're sending people who are being, who have been audited or being audited, and they're asking for activity and more activity than what they provided.

And specifically, their digital asset trades, buy, sales, all that. shit and they want to capture that in the in this questionnaire and it's also asking about the popular exchanges that if they have any accounts like stuff like binance coinbase and a bunch of other exchanges as well and then they ask do you have an account if so what's your username what's your email and you're giving up a lot of information we do that is trying to capture information related to your bitcoin and your shit coin usage right if you think that your stack was fully KYC before or KYC freed, but it's no longer. We're doing this, you're basically giving up everything.

And, you know, it's, and really they're trying to find for people that make moves that did not report it. Anytime you have, this is the way the law is written, the way I understand it. And I could be wrong, but this is, I stick by this. When you have something like Bitcoin, as long as you don't trade it for anything else, you're not subjected to any sort of tax, right? You're just simply holding it. If you move Bitcoin to lightning back to Bitcoin,

it's not moving Bitcoin out of Bitcoin. It's just simply Bitcoin. Now, when you move Bitcoin to say USDT or anything else, that's a taxable event. And then moving it back to Bitcoin, that's also a taxable event. How many times people may have done shit like this using their app to try to get some Solana token or whatever,

never claiming anything, this is going to be nasty for people out there. But from what I gather, this is only for people right now that are being audited. Starting with that. Yeah. It could very well morph into the whole population. You've got to provide this information.

And since companies like Coinbase, Crack and all those companies, they have this information. If the IRS goals of after this information from the source, from them, and tries to cross-reference with what you provide, And there's a discrepancy, you better get ready to fucking bend over because they're going to really come after you hard. So people at mine, people that do other things, buy it from the ATMs and whatnot, I think you're probably okay.

Also, if you just bought Bitcoin to nothing else, you're probably okay. You may be giving up your information in terms of your ownership of the Bitcoin, but you certainly don't know, at least the way I understand it, you don't know any taxes on it. So that's my take. Okay, there's a couple of interesting things here. And the reason we're leading with this, okay, is not because it's, you know, a click-baity story. In fact, it's probably not. You know, I had Andreas do the thumbnail for this story as well,

but it's probably not the click-bait story we could have used. I think it's important, though, for a couple of reasons. That I truly believe most people are not really understanding here by the looks of things, including guys like TFTC who, you know, broke the story, Marty and Matt. Yeah, it's a good. It's a good rage bait thing, but it's not really everybody, like you mentioned. I'm glad you said it's people who are being audited. It's actually only small business and self-employed people who are being audited, who are being asked this question as far as I can tell. Now, the interesting thing is that it's not just asking you about the audit year. It's asking you about lifetime, balances, moves, trades, buys, sells on any of these platforms. There's more than a hundred different places. platforms, including cold storage, that are on this form, treasure, ledger, all these other,

cold storage options. I'm not sure if coin kite is on there with their coal cards. But the implication would be that you have to fill out whether it's on the form or not under penalty of perjury. That's pretty serious. The IRS as a global enforcement arm always leads the rest of the world. They're the tip of the spear. If they start doing this, everyone else.

we'll start doing it too. The question becomes, as a Canadian, have you ever used a Coinbase or a Cracken or any of these American exchanges that may fall under the FACTA or FACCA jurisdiction, right? The information sharing between Canada, the U.S. and a few other places regarding tax evasion, sort of just general movement of money, movement of value on these networks and on SWIFT. you know, where do you think if you're a Canadian, do you remember all the transactions you did, 2015, 16, 17? Could you pull them? If you can't pull them and you don't remember, are you going to be penalized? What is the reasonable expectation? I think, as we've talked about before, it'll be made clear to you as a taxpayer, as a citizen, that you're better off airing

on the side of too much declaration than not enough and too much value than not enough. And if you can't remember the values of the accounts you held in some of these other places, the natural inclination will be, well, I better just tell them I had something there. I don't remember how much. Maybe it was $1,000. Maybe it was $500, when really it was less than that, but you don't want to undershoot it. We're getting to the point now where the IRS knows people have this stuff. CRA knows people have this stuff. And they're going to make it difficult for you to lie about how much you have. And they're going to penalize big names, businesses, entrepreneurs, whatever, at every opportunity to use that chilling effect to grab

us and other people who are in our bracket, right, the sort of plebs out there. It's not fair. And I don't think it ultimately is going to matter whether or not you had a quote unquote taxable event because soon, in my opinion, there's going to be an attempt to tax this stuff year over year on gains, not on sales. You're talking about unrealized. Oh, yeah, 100% for sure. Oh, everything's going to be an unrealized. It's all on the table, right?

So I think this is low-hanging fruit for them. You mentioned there that, you know, you and I agree on this, that moving Bitcoin to the Lightning Network to pay someone or whatever is not moving out of Bitcoin. It shouldn't be considered a taxable event. I doubt very much that they're going to do that the same way. And I think that if you look at what's going on with the samurai guys, Keone or whatever his name is there.

Or he's not Samurai, but you know what I'm talking about. Rodriguez? Yeah. So if you look at that situation, and I know people are talking about how recently the U.S. government has said that privacy is an important part of the whole crypto slash Bitcoin thing, fine, that's what they say, but they're jailing developers. The likelihood that your move to an L2 is viewed as anything but intentionally obfuscating ownership or intentionally obfuscating trail.

of ownership, I think it's very unlikely. I mean, let's be honest. It all depends on the amount. If you're simply moving, like, say, hypothetically, a million sats into a load and you're creating the channel. You know, is that, and that's a percentage of, like a very small percentage of overall stack. Could one say, you're trying to use this system, this lightning network as a way to

you know, one could really make a strong argument. You're just moving it there because it's easy and cheap to move around. I don't disagree with that. And if you move the whole lot to Lightning, which is I would recommend never doing that because it's still very much experimental, then one can make an argument. Yeah, maybe you're using that to try to hide your entire stack. So I don't think many people are moving their entire stack to Lightning. But if they are, then sure, they could be captured by this.

The people that are running a lightning node and just moving a small percentage of their overall and using that as a way to transact in Bitcoin, I think they'll be okay. I don't think that they're going to get themselves nailed on the cross for that. I don't know. And more importantly, I don't think it's more just Bitcoin. This is on a greater scale, just schoenoy, too. A lot of people... That's what you think they're targeting, yeah.

100%. Because maybe I'm skewed in the way I'm looking at things. the way I envision people that buy Bitcoin, I think there's a higher percentage of people that buy Bitcoin and hold on to it. I'm not saying that's a huge number, but compared to say somebody that holds onto Ethereum or Slan or what, name your shitcoin and hold onto it. I'm going to fuck and I'm going to be a hoddler forever.

I don't think there's too many of those by percentage compared to say in Bitcoin. There's more people that are, I see the value of this. I see the scarcity of this. I see the long term value of that. I'm not going to sell it. I'm not going to trade it. I'm just going to hold on to it. So I think there's more of that in Bitcoin by percentage.

And also, we got also the NFTs, the meme coins, all that shit that probably has never been captured before. And it's a good way for the IRS to capture it. If they're hungry for tax dollars, they'll go ahead and do it. Yeah, which we know they are. If they make example of a few people, then you think people are going to be more apt to buy this shit and never report it? Hell no.

You know, especially if they show that, you know, they rounded up a bunch of people. people that skirted the system. And now they're doing five to ten at club fed. They're going to have to poll the same. Right. Yeah. So maybe it's an issue of capacity of enforcement for them, right? So they look at the top, you know, 10% of offenders.

How many of those are going to be Bitcoiners after, you know, from 2015, let's say, till now, the likelihood that the guys of avoiding taxes or Bitcoiners is pretty low. Is that the, that's the case you're making? I think that's probably true. I'm thinking percentage wise. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of people that buy Bitcoin and it, trade it. do that just by sheer volume.

You look at how much Bitcoin's, but I'm just thinking there's more there's a higher percentage of people in Bitcoin than other digital assets that just hold on to it. And maybe I'm using myself as example. I could go back to when I first purchased and you could trace all the, there's no cells. Yeah. Right.

So like maybe I'm the exception. I don't know, but in that small circle of people I talk to, a lot of people are like that. But there are some people I do know that. live and use Bitcoin as a medium exchange. So I don't know. It's interesting. This is something to be perfectly honest.

It doesn't really, it doesn't scare me. I think this is, this is, I don't know. It reminds me of Jeb Bush, right? It's low energy. It's a signpost. We'll see what ends up happening. Keep in mind, this is a, you know, quote unquote, Bitcoin friendly IRS at the moment. Let's see how it looks when the Democrats win in,

in 28 if they win in 28. Looking more than the other day, by the way. Eventually Democrats will win. If it's not next time or the next time, it's one party or the next party. Nobody runs a table forever. Yeah. Who the fuck knows?

John in the chat is bringing up a good point that would you spook, you know, would you spook capital out of the country on the back of a weird Bitcoin unrealized gains tax? I don't know. The other thing, too, I'm not convinced all that capital

necessarily leave if Bitcoin was taxed. Like, there's a lot of guys who have a lot of money who didn't buy Bitcoin, didn't get it and don't like it. They may celebrate without really understanding that they're next in line, I think. And how many bought in ways or accumulated Bitcoin in ways that is never tracked? That's a good point. Yeah, if you're at the top of the wealth pyramid, the likelihood that you're playing by the same rules when you buy is basically zero. So now, I'm just looking at people that accumulated Bitcoin through mining or through selling a service or a good or whatever. And it's truly just like using a peer to peer net.

It's never been captured. Unless the other party in that peer to peer reported it and gave your name. That's right. That's never been reported. Then that is just unfortunate. Or even like how far can they go with the chain with like the transactions, right? Like let's say I report to the IRS that I bought on Coinbase and here's my Coinbase wallet. number or whatever my account number.

Then you can go through because I didn't obfuscate any of the transactions. You go through my UTXOs and it's like stuff that I've bought from Coinbase, moved to cold storage, and sent somewhere else. Am I going to get a questionnaire about whose wallet was this that you sent to? Do you control this wallet? Can you sign on

this wallet? Yeah, like it's hard. You know, when you do consolidation of UTXOs, that's going to be people wonder what the fuck's going on here. But again, if you control the keys for all those UTXOs and it's easy you just sign a message it's it's mine right and fuck you and well i don't know whatever let's talk about cold card sure i think that's that's a it's a good topic that to discuss because it i think a lot

people like this i got this the cold card mark five that came out now available for orders officially launched on the 10th of march and this replaces the four the cold card mark four i don't have any handy right here to show off i don't obviously don't even have a five and people are probably questioning what the fuck's the difference between the four to five there are some differences there's a bigger screen on the five compared to the four it's a one point five four inch gorilla glass display like that like that and the keys are supposed to be more precise and clicky so when you click it it sounds more clicky the USB for powering it was relocated used to be in a top now it's on the side better access so when you put it down on the table

It's just easier to use. It's just more better to use it in general. Better NFC. That doesn't really impact me. I like to use. Yeah, the Air Gap crowd doesn't care about that. Yeah, it's good to have, but I'm not going to take advantage of it if I get it.

And one thing to note, it runs the same firmware, sorry, the same firmware as the Mark 4. The 5 and 4 run the same firmware. The Mark 4 is now no longer for sale, as I mentioned. So the 5 is the only thing you get it. So really then the only thing it is, If you're running the same firmware, essentially it's just a cosmetic change from 4 to 5. There's some QOL in there too.

Like, you know, the buttons are kind of shitty on the Mark 4. I, you know, it doesn't impact me. I like it. And I have pass raises, you know, and I had very long ones at that. Yeah. So the price is in USD 170 for the cold card mark 5. And if you want to compare that to the Q, that's 250. So pick whichever one you want, use it correctly.

At least the way I say is correctly. Everybody may have their own way of doing things, but if you do it properly, air gap, never expose your keys to internet. Don't fucking plug that device to a device that or like a computer or whatever. They're good. And so these these should be good devices to use.

I'm not going to get one. And there's a reason why I'm not going to get one, because the four does everything I need. Yeah. I never got the queue. I could have bought it. I just never needed a cube because I like my four, right? So I just like when something works for me, I like to keep it.

So it's not to see that the five sucks. The five is probably better than the four. But if you don't have any cold cards, get the five. That's a good one. Yeah, I'm with you there. I personally, well, let's start with the improvements. The buttons, yeah, I like that. But to your point, you know, the buttons aren't that big a deal if you're not really using the wallet to send, right?

So if the idea is that you buy this thing, air gap it, go through that process, you know, the paranoid cold card setup from Odell, I think, right? Put that together. Pretty sure. I think so. So if you're using that setup, the idea would be that you use this thing once, set it up with sparrow or whatever, or cove or, you know, pick your sort of wallet of choice, your wash wallet of choice and let that thing generate addresses for you. You never touch the hardware. I think that's the right way to do this. The complaints I think people have about the Mark 4 are valid. The screen is kind of small, makes QR reading difficult. It's sort of, you know, I know, but these are quality of life improvements that, and this is the second point I'm going to make, these are

quality of life improvements that Cold Card, that CoinCard, I should say, has to focus on because if they don't lend, what are they going to sell? They're not going to sell 10 wallets to the same people, right? So when they come up with a way to improve the hardware, even if they're not improving the software, it's an improvement, you know, an iterative one at that, but an improvement all the same. And, you know, when I think about what they're doing, I don't know what else we expect from them, right?

They've done some good work there and they continue to make good products. People complain about the price of cold card units, but it's the most. secure hardware wallet as far as I can tell. A lot of people have this feeling, not just me, guys like Ben Perrin and you and other people who are in the space all have this feeling. It's not because NVK is a good salesman.

People are using the thing and there's no issues with it. And the price comes up all the time. Well, that's $200. There's nothing to it. The passport prime was released this week, I think, from Foundation, which has parts that will fail. The touchscreen and the battery

will fail over time. We've seen this a million times and a million different devices, not just in hardware wallets, but in all sorts of different electronics. There's a camera on there that will have parts that will fail. There's no way to really, you know, get those things back. It's not modular.

And so you have the strip down, you know, Mark 5 for, what do you say, 170 or something like that, US? 170 USD. Do you know what the passport prime sells for? If I have the guess, I'll say 190. 350. So you're going to buy a passport Prime with all those parts that will fail, they are part of a planned obsolescence cycle.

Or are you going to buy the infamous calculator from Coin Kite that whether you agree or disagree with the hardware, you know, aesthetic and agree or disagree with the sort of cypherpunk UI, agree or disagree with the difficulty or ease with which you can use that device. the fact of the matter is the likelihood that device lasts you 20 years is much, much, much greater than basically anything else on the market. And if you're a hodler, what else is more valuable to you than that? What else? There isn't anything that's more valuable to you than that.

And so the button's improving, great, screen improving, great, gorilla glass, great. But what I really care about is that there's no planned obsolescence involved with that device. and they're trying to iterate. When you make a device that good, the changes become smaller and the returns become a little less significant, but the price doesn't change. The software doesn't change. There's no new vulnerabilities, like you said.

And for the people who want to use stuff like NFC and use the screen more often and do sends more often, the buttons are clickier, that's good stuff. That's a product that you want to support, and it's a product that so far has been basically the undisputed king for, I would say what, close to a decade now, right? Something like that? I don't know when it did cold car.

I think 2017 was the first one, I want to say. So, you know, let's say they weren't, let's say they were the king in 2020, you know, seven years. Who's upended them? The only complaints I ever see about coin kite are really more about MBK than the product. So, you know, you don't like the way that guy talks. That's your business. Take it up with him.

But the product he makes is rock solid. Just like all their stuff is rock solid. You know, the fuse good. The block, lock. is good. The stats card is good. Works with all the major wallets. Pablo's saying the bull Bitcoin wall. Yeah, I see you, Pablo,

that you want it to be waterproofed. You know, that's going to cost you a couple extra bucks. And the question is, who wants that in a hardware wallet? Maybe some people. There's a good way to do it. Isn't the point of the wallet to have isn't the point of the wallet not to be indestructible? Isn't the point for you to do your plates?

No, because if there's ever a fire or flood, I think that's your plate's got to hold up right but then the device is lost so just put it in a zip lock bag or whatever i think actually coin kite sells like a survivor uh case now that i'm thinking about it i could be wrong about that someone can fact check me um anyway before we go the next story you want you probably want to destroy your cold card or wipe it after you generate your seats yeah because then if you have those on plates somewhere else you then you know that if somebody gets access to your cold cart somehow and gets access to it, which is difficult.

But at least if you wipe it then... How many times do we say on this show that you want to be in a position to receive very easily, but be in a very difficult position when it comes to sending? Do we not say that all the time? That's more... That's a you thing, and I agree with it. Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's a no-brainer to me.

Just you're not taking advantage of the defensibility of the asset if you're making it easy to send. So I don't really see the... Anyway, before we go on, there's a couple hundred people, 300 or so people watching on Twitter. Go to YouTube. Enjoy the visuals, the chat, as always, has the regulars in it. It's bumping. Go leave a like on the video, all that good stuff.

You may find that you get more out of the show when you're bullshitting with the other people who watch it instead of watching on Twitter. Where I can't see your comments and no one else can either. So anyway, where do you want to go next? Let's talk about Ledger. We're talking about these hardware wallets and the other side of the spectrum now here. The other side of the continuum. Yeah, well, Ledger, they've had their issues. They are, you know, I think it's not no secret that we don't think it's the best product out there.

They cater to shit coins. That's one reason why you're looking at them and say, you know, that's really the best. Their history of protecting or lack thereof of your information is another thing. And remember, their multi-sig service is a joke unless you want to get rugged. But there was a rumor floating around about a vulnerability with ledger devices. and the Android phones that use MediaTech processors, which from when I was doing some research, it's not a huge amount of devices, but still, you know.

Anyways, the rumor was that if you are using one of these Android phones with Media Tech processors and you interact with a ledger device, and if you do that, you're just asking for a set of problems. And they say that you can get access to your devices pin and also your seed, and that could be all stolen by a bad actor. That's the rumor. Ledger came out and they said this is all bullshit. And they say, you know, that's not true.

So a compromise phone will result in somebody getting access to the info on the phone. This is nobody could dispute that. They say that the device pin remains solely on the ledger device. And it's only done, it's only kept within the secure element on that device. And it says, they also say that this is total bullshit. Why does FUD come out? This seems odd out of the blue. I'm wondering who did this?

Why the cold card five came out this week, right? Is there a connection between it two? I doubt it. But who knows? Maybe I'm joking. Maybe I'm not. I'm a cold card user, right? I'm not going to say, but who knows?

It just seems rather funny that a, piece of news came out and they got a lot of traction about there's some bullshit going on with Ledger which is not true. I don't know man. It's just why did this come out all of a sudden? Engagement I don't know. It's a good question. It's a good question. I mean they've got a team at Ledger trying to crack this stuff all the time right? I think they might be one of the only hardware wallets that has a team like that. Are they utilizing a firm out of Israel? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I seem to think that's, it doesn't matter where. I mean, they could be. But they, you know, they've made claims about cold cards in the past. They've made claims about their own wallets in the past. They've made claims about Trezor in the past. I think you're just best served, especially in this day and age, you're best served looking at the sort of broader discussion around Harbor wallets. What do we see?

We see Ledger at the center of data leaks. We see Ledger at the center of We will give up your keys if we are Nudge to do so by law enforcement We see Ledger selling hats To which you can attach your hardware wallet I don't see Coin Kite doing any of that stuff I don't see Trezor doing any of that stuff

And the only really company I hear about Frequently in a negative light is these guys And you may agree or disagree With their findings on this particular story or on the coin kite stuff or on other security research they've done and instances in which they've been able to, quote unquote, extract pins from secure elements or what have you. But I simply just don't hear any of these stories from other companies. And by the way, Len, these guys have the biggest, you know, war chest.

So if any company was able to squelch negative stories before they came out, it would be these guys, right? Coin kite doesn't have a couple hundred million dollars in cash. know, the way these guys might. And everyone is gunning for coin kite. And there's just no, there's no, there's always attempts to make it look like there's smoke there, but there's never any fire. Meanwhile, over here, what do I see? I see the behavior.

I see the way that Pascal gets upset when he's on stage with MBK. I see the way that these guys are constantly playing defense against the latest data breach on their side of things, the latest law enforcement cooperation. the latest whatever. And by the way, in France, you know, French authorities selling addresses of people who bought ledgers to Moroccan gangs leading to deaths and kidnappings and whatnot. Like, you just don't see this stuff anywhere else. So I would stay away from these guys. I can't say it any more clearly than that.

I don't know why people are still looking at these guys as a wallet you should be buying. You know, it's difficult for me to make that case at this point that you should be looking at these wallets at all. Shake pay. We can talk about them really briefly. Sure. Brand new news. Yeah. The spread is now zero dollars.

Zero percent. On recurring buys, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if you want to go and use them, go right ahead. It's going to be cheap to do so if you're in Canada. So have nothing else really to add because that just came out really late. I'll add some stuff.

Thank you because I didn't do too much research aside from the fact I got that email before the show. I'll preface it with that I like the guys of Shake Pay. This is not a shot at Shake Pay at all. but I don't think the spread the spread is insignificant long term okay I'll just start there what you want to do is do your buys

and obviously Bull is a sponsor of the show but we were using Bull before they sponsored this podcast okay so this is not a new thing for us anytime we take on a sponsor we're very cautious and making sure that we use those products before we take them on or at least know enough about them to be able to stand by them ShakePay still sells Ethereum.

ShakePay operates in a different realm than Bull does in a lot of ways. In terms of reporting, in terms of requirements, shake pay will shotgun KYC you if you haven't verified your identity in a while. Shake Pay wants you to be in the app every day. They care about DAU and not about NGU, I think, in a lot of ways. they're interested in many things that are not necessarily directly adjacent to the Bitcoin ethos. Now, that's not everything, and it's not every person there. We know Carlo Campizi very well. We know Jean a little bit and some of the guys are Chepe and girls are Chepeg, good people.

But their path is different than the one that Bull is on. Bull is not ever going to look to IPO. Bull is not ever going to look to become your bank account. Bull is not ever going to look to shotgun KYC you or sell you a shick coin or worry about how many times a week you go on the website to use their service so they can sell it to investors. Bull cares about one thing. It's giving you Bitcoin non-custodially as fast as they can, as cheap as they can, and most importantly then, as privately as they can. They will help you with stuff like moving your house in Bitcoin. They'll help you with stuff like

Re, you know, putting roots down somewhere else after selling your house using Bitcoin. To help you with all these things. These guys are experts. They're in multiple jurisdictions. They can't say the same thing. And so while the spreads are low, sure. Or zero in this case, I'm recurring.

I just can't recommend them at this point. The shotgun KYC thing I think is if you, even if you disagree with everything else, shotgun KYC should be a non-starter. for you as a Bitcoiner, especially when there's other options here in Canada that we think are more representative of the Bitcoin ethos. And don't forget they were hacked that too long ago. That's right.

It was a very, very small percentage of their user base that was somehow gained. Still got them, though. Still got them. But they have that blemish in the record. Well, it's time to dust out an old segment of the show, Joey. Oh, boy, here we go. No corner of the week.

It's been a long time since we've done it. People like this segment. it one time because there's a reason why I want to bring it up and I can't believe we had to under a tirade. Boris fucking Johnson. Bojo. Clearly there's been

this is truly a no-coiner. This is the former Prime Minister of the UK and he says on X, this is a reason why I'm picking on him. I'm not coming out of the blue. I have no beef against this dude. But he says that he's read a long time that he suspected Bitcoin is a giant Ponzi.

And he's now hearing tales of woe that makes him fear that he's right. Now, I don't know who he talked to, what information he gained. But now in his eyes, Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme. And I really don't need to get into the specifics here on why Bitcoin is not a Ponzi. We all know why he's fucking wrong. I don't have to get into it. But people will be happily to give up their wealth, put it in banks,

and let them gatekeep this bullshit. The notion that Bitcoin is a Ponzi is a fucking joke. I can't believe he... All he had to do, this guy is not a dumb guy. Maybe he is, actually after reading this. But it doesn't take much effort to fucking learn about Bitcoin

and understand it's not a fucking Ponzi. People like this, every one of them that just comes to a quick conclusion without really diving deep. I'm not saying this specifically about Boris Johnson. I don't want to get in trouble with him or anything else. But in general, people like that, they can fucking suck my dick, right?

They could do so in such a way. And I'll even do it right. I will stop shaving the nether regions for a couple of weeks, make sure things get nice and long. So then there's a nice string when you're gargling on my balls. You're shaving every, how often do you shave your... Enough I have to.

We'll talk about another. But I'll leave a nice string for you. You could floss the nice between those crooked teeth and you're good to go. This is all you're going to do is read his fucking tweet or his post and you understand why he's my fucking no-coiner of the week. Yeah. It doesn't, Bitcoin doesn't meet the technical definition of a Ponzi anyways. No central operator, no guarantee of gains. Like none of this stuff is, it doesn't meet the technical definition.

Okay, I'll just leave it at that. But the most damning thing about this, I got a quote for it. Yeah, okay. We are going to make Britain a global hub, a global hub for crypto asset technology. Do you know which British prime minister said that? I'm going to guess it's Boris fucking Johnson. In 2022. Yeah.

He changes two in four years. So what a retard. I can't believe it. They're not, you don't have to live and die by one particular thing. People can adapt. But he must have been briefed about Bitcoin when he said that. What has changed? since then? What information, what money might have been exchanged as a result for him?

I don't know. Johnson comparing it to like Pokemon cards and shit too. Like, come on, bro. I'm not trying to say you got paid to say this. But, you know, who knows? Anything is possible these days. Drac Hotel. Let's talk about this.

Wait, before we go on, do you know, did you read the article? I couldn't because behind a paywall. I always, for these ones, I try to find the archive. Do you know what he based his, like what the big, like, core was? argument was. No. There was a guy in some village, I can't remember anything, but I'll try and pull it up here. Oxfordshire. An Oxfordshire resident gave 500 pounds to a pub acquaintance who promised to double it through Bitcoin and eventually lost about 20,000 pounds after paying repeated fees over three and a half years to the same guy. Clearly it's a scam.

Must be. You know, imagine you buy a lemon and take it to a bad mechanic and then you just write an article in like mechanics today talking about how cars are a scam. We have these get up cars are a Ponzi. I knew it the whole time. I, you know what? I take it back. He was right.

This thing is a fucking Ponzi. After this, I'm going to fucking sell everything. It's over. Go right into USD. Get taxed on it. Go. Oh, fuck.

I'm going to get taxed. But a good thing, I bought everything at $120,000. Yeah, if anything, losses, bro. Yeah. So it's fuck them all.

I love it. I love it. Drac Hotel and or Drake Hotel. I'm not sure how to pronounce it. It's a global data ESIM. Interesting product. It's $19 USD per year and it's also pay as you go the wholesale rates. There's no expiration, no borders.

And with this, you could pay with lightning. And their claims there's no expiring data. Your balance never expires. You pay by the megabyte. Unrestricted hotspots, 4G and 4. 5G and the prices vary by country. For example, the U.S., if you're going to use it over there, it's $1.26 U.S.D. per gigabyte. Canada is as low as 331 U.S.D per gigabyte.

So I'm not sure if that's any good or not. These are prices I see. In fact, it's actually pretty fucking expensive. If you look at it in Canada compared to other parts, Europe, they get such cheap rates for whatever, either way. No KIC when registering and paying. You choose whatever network you want. the key here, it's data only. No calls, no SMS.

That's okay now, though, really. Like, you don't need, yeah. Right. But some people might need SMS, but if you don't, if you don't care about calls, if you don't care about SMS, it's an e-sim, a global e-sim, you pick the network you want to use,

and you're going to use that. It's really cool, and you pay with lightning. And like I say, it varies by country. I was saying that 331 in Canada is expensive. I'm not saying Drac Hotel is expensive. I'm pointing out that Canada's rates are expensive. So if you want to use it, say,

in England and you want to talk about Boris Johnson being a no-coiner, you could do that, lots of different options here. I thought it was cool for people I want to travel and don't want to give up their information, pay with lightning, Dracotel, D-R-A-C-O-T-E-L, check it out. It's on Stacker News. I mean, you should be going there once in a while. I don't go there that often, but this is a good find by you. You know what's interesting?

I would just have this conversation with my wife today about how expensive cell phone services in this country and how, you know, it seems to me like you're constantly getting just nickel and dined for extra shit, like every contract renewal. And every time you buy a new phone or whatever, right? It's even with all that nickel and diming, the real biggest issue for me is that you're just constantly dealing with someone who seems to be in, like, has contempt for you on the other side of the call or the desk or whatever. Like, no matter who you're dealing with this is this major inconvenience for this guy or girl who's making minimum wage, you know, if I'm lucky somewhere in Canada, but probably somewhere in India, trying to, you know, renew my

phone plan, renegotiate my price, like whatever, right? And now I don't, I guess I don't even have to worry about this. Is that what I'm taking from this story? Like, I don't have to deal with. And it's ESIM, right? That is, I mean, my car's ESIM. My phone's ESIM anyways, but I think a lot of people who are, who don't have ESIMs yet will wake up to this too and be like, wow, this is really comedian, you know, you're going overseas, buy this instead of having to go to a a little cell phone shop in Birmingham.

You know, dodge the third world no-go zone on the way to the cell phone shop. Make sure your phone is like double strapped to your chest so you can't be stolen by a guy and don't deliver a roo scooter. There's a little British lore for you. Anyway, you want to do one more before we go to the next half? Let's see what's left.

Yeah, let's do that we have less than one million Bitcoin. Wild. Can you believe it? That's That's crazy, hey? And so to date, we have a little bit over 20 million Bitcoin that is now in circulation that has been released by the network. And the remaining one million is going to be released sometime between now and 2140. And it's going to be a scaled approach, less and less every four years.

And if you're doing the percentage, that's 95%. A little bit more of all Bitcoin that's been mine to date. It's out there in circulation. That's incredible. And for people that want to understand what scarcity is, that's scarcity. It's not fucking gold. It's not silver. It's not diamond.

This is fucking scarcity, no matter what those idiots are trying to peddle you. Some numbers here. It took less than one year to mine the first one million Bitcoin. It took a little less than two years to mine five million Bitcoin. Three years and eight months for 10 million. seven years, 15 million Bitcoin, 17 years for 20 million. Interesting. Last one million, take 100 years.

Here's a question for you. Diminishing returns, obviously, in the block reward. A lot of people talking about, you know, in the Yappers University space here in the Bitcoin podcast world, a lot of people talking about what does this mean for the four-year cycle? You know, we've got another halving next year, or two years now, I should say. And, you know, we're kind of getting into this, this era where the reward is just so small. It's so small.

And I just wonder what you think it means for the four year, you know, having equals number go up cycle that we've been so used to. Although it may already be breaking, to be honest with you. But I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. It may or may not. We haven't finished the four year cycle to truly say it for certain. And to be, if you want to be honest, it's not like you have a lot of data to go off of, right? It's not like you have 30 cycles, which you have a few. So the sample size is rather low.

Who knows if this is something that could be repeatable? I don't know. The one thing that is going to be interesting to see play out is mining is going to be very, very, like the rewards are like you say, it's diminishing every four years. Yeah. When you get to the 2030s or 2040s, you're getting fuck all in terms of Bitcoin. And mining gets more and more challenging to do. Cost of the equipment, electricity, all that shit, it better be worth your while to do it.

Right? I guess. Yeah, that's a good way to find. Just by looking at that, man, the price should be going up. This is going to be fun to watch. Like the next 20 years, though, the price of Bitcoin in NFA, of course, it should fucking absolutely rip. I know, it should. For people that are still around during that time, because who knows what happens in 20 years,

maybe a bomb will go off that just eliminates a lot of us. Who the fuck knows? Yeah, can't wait. If you're with us on video, hang in. We're not going anywhere. If you're with us on audio, there's more than 500 people watching, by the way, Lan. If we're with us on audio, come back tomorrow for the back half. So that is to say for the new people, if you're live, stay.

We're not going anywhere. If you're listening on the podcast, the rest of the show comes out tomorrow morning. So until then, take care yourselves. Don't forget the floss with my nut here.