The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The INSANE Rise of Bitcoin Treasury Companies w/ Boomer | The CBP

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESJoin The CBP as we dive into the incredible rise of Bitcoin treasury companies, featuring special guest Boomer. The growth of companies like MicroStrategy, led by Michael Saylor, has been nothing short of remarkable, with their digital treasury strategy yielding impressive results. But what does this mean for the stock market and the future of asset management? In this video, we explore the world of Bitcoin treasuries, high beta stocks, and the investment insights behind this phenomenon. From GameStop's GME shares to Semler Scientific's SMLR, we examine the impact of Bitcoin on the financial landscape. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting your financial education, this video is packed with valuable information on Bitcoin, BTC, and the booming world of Bitcoin stocks. So, what's driving the rise of Bitcoin treasury companies, and how can you get in on the action? Watch to find out.#MSTR #BTC #MichaelSaylor #BitcoinStrategyJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. With DomainSure and EasyMail, you'll sleep soundly knowing your domain, email and information are private and protected. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for 25% off fees FOR LIFE, and start stacking today.

And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies, welcome back Canadian Bitcoiners podcast.

Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better and formless, it's a Levin Joe E. Spots are taking care of right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and easy DNS, the media is feeding a slop. It doesn't matter what topic's discussed. Quality entertainment and information you can trust. That's being planned or at least discussed. We're not gonna allow for the buyers of the crypto.

You can trust. Send the guys some value, boost them with some stats. Bitcoin is a scarcity asset, I mean, it's just a fact. Geopolitical, national, down to the local cloud. Friends and enemies, welcome back CBP. Not Len, but another familiar face here. Boomer in the chat. Not in the chat.

In the other window today, yeah, live and direct. We're gonna be talking about Bitcoin treasury companies. There's been obviously like, what I would call honestly, like an irrational surge in the popularity of these things over the last, I don't know, what now, year-ish, something like that, and you know when I think about whether or not this is something we need to be concerned about as Bitcoiners and I think also potentially as equity holders in some of these companies, I'm not sure where I come down. So we're going to get into all

that. First though, the sponsors, EasyDNS, I mean not sure where I come down. So we're going to get into all that first though, the sponsors, easy DNS. I mean, I always talk about easy DNS. They're the best place for you to run a website store, your content story, or your, your business info, your, all that stuff. Mark is the friendly neighborhood registrar. We use them obviously for Canadian Bitcoiners.com where we very rarely post because let's face it, time is scarce, especially for Len and I these days, um, but you can go there and either register a domain or bring a domain that you registered

somewhere else and get it onto EasyDNS's books. Because I mean, why wouldn't you? If you're a Bitcoiner, virtual private server stuff available for you. Lots of options, Bitcoin nodes, Nostra relays, BTC pay servers, among other things. And of course, DomainSure and EasyMail and other security suite options for a couple extra bucks. Secure your data, man, like it's worth it. You're gonna wind up paying either because you got got

by somebody who was after your mailing list or after your domain and spoofed you, or you're gonna pay a couple bucks upfront to someone like Mark and make sure this never happens. And of course, Mark, in the spirit of the show today should mention Bitcoin treasury over there at easy DNS. So go there, use our promo code CBP media, get half off your first round of buys. I don't know, Boomer, you want to do the bull read? I mean, I did one of them. Bull Bitcoin is the other sponsor. What do you think about bull Bitcoin? Check out their new app. I just got the new liquid wallet. Sharp as shit. It's really nice.

The new website is redesigned. Beautiful. What can you say about bull Bitcoin? They're like the coolest guys, man. I'll tell you, we have to say more about them. I would just also add- Your sponsor, not mine. I know. I would also add that if you want to use Bitcoin in a way that is a little more friendly than just buying bit cards, you can go there and use their bills service, which is sick. I mean, if you want to pay any of your fiat bills, you could probably do it with gift cards. Let's face it. But if you want to pay some real bills that like actual adults also have mortgages, university tuition, cell phones, stuff like this, property tax, I'm pretty sure is on there.

Just go and use your Bitcoin and do it. They'll take care of it for you. Everything is going on in the background and in the front of house. Nothing changes, man. You can't beat these guys. They are running the best place in the world to buy and use your Bitcoin. And like we mentioned, crazy. They have a nice new app there.

It looks very sharp. They're in France, they're in Mexico. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. Where are they at now? They are kings of the planet, man. Okay. And I'll just also note that extreme in the best way.

So go use our promo code. I think it's CBP, but it's in the description of the show for sure. And you get 25% off your first, no, you get 20% off your fees for life, which is great. That's a lot better than the $21. So I would be using that if I was you guys. Okay. Boomer. Let's, let's start. We got to start off by saying the obvious, like this is not financial advice. Nothing

we say here is financial advice. Yeah. We spent the time preparing for the show, talking about the Oklahoma city thunder. So you know, you probably shouldn't be listening to us if you're wanting, if you have your life savings. Anything can happen. Yeah. On this show now it's a free for all. I don't know. I don't know where I want to start because I look at like, I'll just I'll give you like

my sort of overview. Me and you are in a couple of the same group chats, including the now infamous MSTR bait, where people are constantly talking about what started just as micro strategy, but has since expanded to other Bitcoin equities, specifically the Bitcoin treasury companies. There's people in there tweeting out ticker updates and quotes from Japan, from apps I've never seen. In Japanese. Yeah, in Japanese. That's right. Yeah.

You need like a translation service or something on your phone to see what the fuck they're saying. It's every day. And because of the time difference between here and Japan, obviously, in a lot of cases, it's become a 24 hour obsession, not just for our little group chat, but on Twitter, there's tons of these things. There's MSTR True North, there's Bitcoin intelligence, there's all sorts of different groups and popular Twitter accounts and YouTube channels and all this stuff. Not to mention that when I'm looking over, you know what hashtags to put on the show

I almost always get recommended MSTR micro strategy and Michael Saylor So like, you know, no matter what we're talking about I could have a show on housing or a show on birth rates or a show on anything and Unless we're talking about Michael Saylor piping enough women to start a small empire There's just no reason for his name to be in there But it's suggested to me almost every time because of the content. All you got to do is look at simply Bitcoin's thumbnails.

I mean, this is it, right? Michael Saylor's on fire in the vault like the guys at Bitcoin Bugle say. So like, I don't know if this is good or bad. And as I kind of continue to flesh out my thoughts here, I'll just kind of also point out that oftentimes the crowd is not as well informed and overall correct as they may think. Now there's two ways to look at that statement. One is that the crowd is, it seems like anyone talking about Bitcoin or related equities is piling into these companies hand over fist. The other way to look at it is the crowd may be the people who are not.

That's actually the vast majority of investors out there, people who think MSDR is a fly wheel scam or a Ponzi or you name it. And you know, I just, there's a data point I want to show you. Someone from our community sent me this today and I'll, I'll show it. It's a rather interesting bit of content from a small company in the UK. And this guy's small company in the UK. You've seen this, I guess. I was on that chat. I think that was a reply to one of my tweets. Was it? Okay. Yeah. So I'm going to try and find it. Of course, I'm ill prepared for this show because my daughter is just finishing dinner

around the time that we start. Okay, here it is. I'll pull it off. Basketball season. It's I mean, all these things are more important than the fantasy football starting up soon. Never in doubt. Never in doubt. People should be drafting gente early.

Okay, so here's the oh my god, I added the wrong window here. This is an interesting thing because this company really has no business buying Bitcoin. This guy doesn't seem to have any interest, broadly speaking, in Bitcoin. His company was not talking about Bitcoin before. And now we have this guy from the US of A, or from the UK I should say.

I'll just read it for people who are on audio. This is from Glenn Goodman on Twitter. Want to hear some BTC craziness. Last month, a bloke called Andrew Webley was running his tiny web design firm in Guildford, UK, with net assets of less than 50,000 pounds. Then he listed the firm on the stock market, raised about 5 million quid from investors and spent it on Bitcoin. So this company, SmarterWeb Company PLC, I think that's programmable logic controllers, right?

So he's making like hardware, or maybe it's not if it's a web design firm, we gotta figure out what that PLC stands for, is basically a mini micro strategy and Mr. Webley is a mini sailor. But here's the crazy part. The share price has rocketed in its first few days and that five million quids worth of Bitcoin now

has a market cap of $175 million. That's what the market says it's worth because people keep buying the shares. So shrug emoji after that. I think this might be the most overvalued stock I've ever seen. Just to put it all in perspective, last month in the company's retail investor IPO document, it boasts that Andrew Webley, founder of the SmarterWeb company, has committed to invest a minimum of 30,000 pounds through his ISA. And now his company is worth $175 million. So I'm going to retweet that. Thank you to whoever pointed that out to me.

This to me- That doesn't end well. It might. So what does end well? Why does the other stuff end well if that doesn't end well? Why does Semmler Scientific end well if that guy doesn't end well? Yeah, there's a lot of them, right? Before the show, I actually was preparing for this and wanted to see how what kind of growth we've seen in

Publicly traded companies holding Bitcoin. Yeah, so take a guess out there Joey and for everybody listening in at home on August 25th 2025 How many Bitcoin do you think were held? By publicly traded companies. It's a good question. In August of 25. August of 21. Oh, 21.

I mean, I have it up on the screen here. I got it right now. It's a lot. Yeah. But it's not as much as you. You it's definitely not as much now. What is it? 200,000.

It's really 200,000. That's where we're at. Do you know where we're at now? Let me take a guess here and I'll give you my thinking. I wanna know if this is corporate treasuries that are publicly traded or is it also, so it doesn't account for private corporate treasuries? Holdings by publicly traded companies.

Okay, so. This is not including private equity. This is not including guys like Mark Jekovic at EasyDNS. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. This is publicly traded companies, Bitcoin on their balance sheet. This has to- Not all of them are using a sailor type of strategy to- No, no, no. No.

Sell bonds or anything. Just publicly traded companies that have Bitcoin on their balance sheet. I think this number's got to be 10 times this now. Two million-ish? No, it's not that. How much is it? Geez, a little over 800,000. That's it. Yeah, really? 805 805 thousand and of that eight hundred and five thousand, you know five hundred and eighty thousand of it is Micro strategy. So there's two strategies that we've seen like input. That's still 4x Joey It's a lot and it's only been four years. And, uh, don't forget, there's still like, you know, I've, I

keep on hearing this talk about sailor buying in 2020 or 21 when no one else wanted it and no one else understood it. And, you know, as if this, as if this has really changed, I don't actually think that outlook has changed for many public companies. Now I've mentioned SEMLAR there. They're fun to pick on because they don't like, it's not, it's not a real company. Okay. Like Semler's not a real company.

It's a Bitcoin acquisition vehicle now. Well, Semler was cashflow positive. So was MicroStrategy. But let's be serious about where the market cap comes from. It doesn't come from whatever the fuck Semler Scientific was doing. Semler's not holding that many coins. No, but where do you think... Okay, let me say this and then we'll talk about some of these valuations stuff because

I think this is part of the conversation. Two things that people are doing, the companies are doing when it comes to strategies to acquire. One is they're using their cash to buy Bitcoin. Fine. That's a little less risky. Way less risky. Than the other strategy, which is issuing bonds, long dated converts, you name it. And using that infusion of cash, let's say to buy Bitcoin.

And the only way that really keeps working is that the price keeps going up, right? You have to outperform something to get that strategy to work for you long term. Then there's now another red flag for me. There's people waving red flags in my head all the time over this. Saylor talking about stuff and metrics I've never heard of, came up with this Bitcoin per share metric. I think that's a bullsh-. We're at TORQ now.

TORQ is fucking brutal too, but I thought Bitcoin per share was a bulls**t metric, honestly. Because if I care about Bitcoin per share, why would I not just buy my own and hold it? Now he can make the case that it's high beta, it's volatility is vitality, whatever other advertising campaign that he was running for his stock over the last two years or so. But when I look at these things and then Bitcoin Tork, obviously we should talk about too. What I see is- Can you explain it to me because I still don't fully understand- I can't. I can't. No, I can't explain it. No, I can't. I looked at it. I'm in a group chat with a couple like really sharp guys who like have Bloomberg terminals and are Bitcoiners and they don't get it either. And that tells me like, like these things start to worry me a little bit.

And I know in our chat, there's people talking about how Bitcoin torque is this metric and the normies don't get it. And there's paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs from people comparing it to, you know, different strategies from bygone eras that didn't go well because they weren't back by Bitcoin and blah, blah. I've heard it all. Okay. But the idea that at the core of all these things is that I should assume more risk to buy your stock

instead of just buying Bitcoin because the fiat payoff may be more significant down the road. Do I have that right? Like, is that a fair way to articulate what's going on with these equities? Yes. And you can hold the price exposure to Bitcoin in tax advantaged accounts. Right? Yeah. So if you can't, if you're locked into an RRSP or a TFSA and maybe you want to do something a little bit different than just holding the Bitcoin ETF, then these things are options. Okay. I've heard this before. I'm trying to get a friend to join us here, a guy who's familiar to people who watch and listen to this show. But I don't think that

it's fair to say that this is a vehicle for people who want it in their retirement account. Maybe it is, but can we really say that like that's where the equity price is coming from? This is like the case. So, so like, what I want to know is where the fuck is this price coming from? Simply Bitcoin aren't putting Michael Saylor thumbnails because of people wanting to put Bitcoin in their IRA. Like it's not hard. No. I mean, look, how many, how many companies publicly traded companies I said before, there's 800, about 805,000 coins being held. How many companies?

Take a guess. Fuck, I don't know. 15? No, about 87. 87 comp? I count 87 because now GameStop is in there. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so if you count every company with at least one Bitcoin, then yeah, okay. It's a big. Yeah. The minimum on the chart I'm looking at here is like 20 Bitcoin.

Okay. So anything from 20 Bitcoin to Sailor with almost 600,000. So there's a slightly under a hundred of them. And how are these companies? Of those, how many of them are miners? And how are these companies? Of those, how many of them are miners? Bitcoin miners. Out of 87. Quite a few. Like I'm looking honestly, like I used to kind of be involved, not involved, but I used to actually give a shit about the mining stocks. Yeah, we talked about it over the years.

And I kind of, you know, Bob Burnett, he completely changed my view on this and now I don't pay any attention to it whatsoever. So some of these companies here I'm not familiar with, but there's quite a few of these 80 something companies that are miners. So right off the bat, I'm, I'm, you can throw those out. I agree. Me personally. How, how do you, how do you, um, how do you square, no pun intended, the performance of block over the course of the last five

years? A company that- It's wild. Well, the problem is they're not- A lot of people got burnt in that company. They're not blowing anything out of the water. They're objectively a better company on the cornerstones, on the cinder blocks, on the fucking studs of the company than MSTR no doubt about that

Okay, they understand Bitcoin better than sailor does I think I mean Jack talking some crazy shit the last couple of days about losing seeds But not as crazy as sailor the other day talking about not doing proof of reserves We can talk about proof of reserves we can talk about that speech to I listened to it right before yeah So we should I'm I'm I'm neutral I'm not as negative as I was the first time I heard it. I listened to it again and I thought about it a little bit. Well, I think you're wrong. And so like Square and Block, whatever that company is called now, like better studs, better core business, better understanding of Bitcoin and didn't outperform anyone.

Why are people buying Semler or MetaPlanet over Block? This is another thing they can say. They're a lot smaller. Yeah, I know, but it's still- Semler and MetaPlanet are tiny microcap compared to Block. The proportion of Bitcoin that, how many I'm looking at right now, I think around 8,000. Yeah. Yeah. 8,600. They, they, 8,600. Block hold 8,600 coins. Now 8,600 coins represents a fraction of their value of their total market value. Same with Tesla. Tesla hold

how many is Tesla hold? Yeah, they're there. They were 11,000. Yeah, something like that. Tesla's 11,000 Bitcoin is a drop in the fucking bucket. It's nothing. So what overall evaluation of the company. Okay. So we're getting some like, it's very high, right? Like, yeah, Semmler, MetaPlanet, obviously MicroStrategy is the leader in this where the value of their Bitcoin is Bitcoin is essentially their market cap. Yeah.

So we're getting somewhere here. So it's not only that I need to hold Bitcoin as a treasury, right? As a treasury asset. It's not only that I need to have it on my balance sheet, on my books, but I also have to have nothing else basically is what you're telling me. To incorporate sailors strategy? Yes. Yeah. strategy. Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Yes. So you're selling volatility and the only way you're going to get even this fucking selling volatility like I don't know. Okay. I get it. But like why again, my big problem with all of this is we are inviting like I say we I'm kind of talking about the royal we here,

Bitcoiners in general. Are we not inviting problems pouring billions of dollars of capital? We are. And what problems do you think we're inviting? Okay, first of all, you ever watch The Wire? No. Never watched The Wire. You gotta watch The Wire. I know. Fuck watching basketball tonight. You watched The Wire. Is it on Netflix? Maybe I'll watch it if it's on Netflix. No, it's on it's on like a crave. I think it's an old HBO show. It's the greatest piece of fiction ever made. The wire is the most amazing TV show. There's never been another movie, another TV show, half as good as the wire. Okay. In the wire, Omar little famously said to brother Muzon, worrying about you is like worrying if the sun gonna come up.

And that's how I feel about these companies getting into Bitcoin. Okay. Now a lot of the Bitcoiners are all up in, Oh my God, the suits are here and look what they're doing. The financialization. It's like, did you guys actually think that Bitcoin could go from zero market cap to we are using hyper Bitcoin eyes, everything we're using Bitcoin transactions for everything. And the suits wouldn't get involved. It's just going to happen at farmers markets.

They wouldn't find a way to get rich off this. Did you really believe that? I never worried about it. They were always going to come. They were always going to happen. These things were always, if it wasn't going to be sailor, it was going to be somebody else. It was always going to happen and I'm telling you I'm looking at the chart right now

There's 87 companies here 86 companies, whatever it is. Yeah Some of these people are gonna are gonna get burnt. Okay, probably a probably a lot of them why? Because they're going these got some of these holders of Bitcoin are going to sell when things, when things go bad and they've leveraged themselves either through convertibles that are never going to convert. So they become debt that they have to service or they're like your buddy in England over there. Uh, whatever, whatever he says, he doesn't do anything. So, so he, so right now he's, he's worth $120 million. So he's out partying in Vegas and he's buying a Lambo and he's buying an office and he's hiring staff because he's a million, a hundred million dollar company. Then when the price of Bitcoin crashes, his

stock is going to crash and he's not going to have any money to pay his staff or to pay his Lambo. So if you bought the stock, you're out of luck. Right? But that doesn't mean that all of these companies are going to zero. And I don't know which ones are. Okay. I have, I mean, I, if I had to bet, I, you know, if you're listening guys, just assume that Joey and I own all of these things. I don't know. The only driving company I own is MSDR. Well, I'm not telling anybody what I own.

So just assume I own everything, assume I own nothing. I'm not picking favorites here. But it's true that some of these companies are going to be forced to sell. And some of these companies are properly set up to hold through the bad times. Now you mentioned Block and I'm critical of Jack Dorsey as well and I'm critical of that company of just like the point of sale terminals that they've had and it's taken this long for them to get Bitcoin. I know, huge announcement today.

It's fucking five years late. Five years late, right. At least five years late. I've been going to farmers markets for five years telling farmers it's like, yeah, you want to accept Bitcoin and all of them have a square terminal. Yeah. Right. Well, how easy would it be if they just had a lightning terminal built in that would, but not so I'm critical. I'm as critical Jack Dorsey as anybody. But that being said, those guys did not sell their coins in the last bear market. No, they didn't. You're right.

Some credit through there, I suppose. They held their way through and possibly the way through because the 8000 Bitcoin that they held was actually not all that substantial to their overall market cap. Exactly. Yeah. Right. But that's they did better than Tesla. Tesla at one point held what 50,000 coins and now they're down to 12 or 13.

Yeah. Over the was it the mining or something energy usage and mining? I feel like they were actually short for cash. I think I think when Tesla Q was still prevalent on Twitter, he was saying or they were saying that they can say whatever they want about green and Bitcoin mining, but they were short a bunch of money and needed a cash infusion. So that's how they ended up getting it. Well, there you go. Yeah. 40, 50% on that trade.

So how many of these companies that are holding Bitcoin right now are going to be short Bitcoin, short cash in the next bear market? And I don't know when the next bear market's going to come. Oh, fucking all the miners will be for sure, right? They're for sellers. They're for sellers no matter what. Yeah. So, right, but we already excluded them because we... But like taking the, you know, take any one of these companies at random, like you don't know, right?

Now someone like Semmler, I will support Semmler a little bit more. Defend Semmler who... I think he's done the work. I think Eric Semmler, I will support Semmler a little bit more. Defend Semmler who- I think he's done the work. I think Eric Semmler has done the work. Absolutely fucking not. Absolutely fucking not. Anyone who puts Natalie Brunel on their board has not done the work. That wasn't a great look for him. It's retarded. And I'm so sick of these guys clearly, clearly, clearly trying to pump the price of their stock with every tool except actually running a successful company.

Now he was, it is a successful company. Now it's a bit of a zombie company where they're make their cashflow positive and they're kind of stuck. Like they can't really grow their business that much without massive investment in something. And for those listening, similar scientific, they make medical equipment. Exactly. Some sort of diagnostic. I'm not 100. I used to know that. I think it's like tabletop medical equipment. I'm not sure if it's anything more than that.

But whatever they do, they make one specific thing that is quite popular and they do sell these things and they're cashflow positive, minimal debt, but they were stuck. They were never going to grow out of that. Right? And that's very much a very similar story to what MicroStrategy was, right? For sure. Now, okay, let me ask something. When I hear shit like Bitcoin Torque and something. When I hear shit like Bitcoin Torque and you know, whatever else this guy said, I love the volatility is vitality thing, cracks me up every time. There's some other good stuff that came out in the last earnings call that I thought was just like, this guy's lost his fucking mind. Then you talk about the proof of reserves thing the other day. And I thought, even if you think that proof of reserves

is unimportant or, you know, as he said, the shareholders don't care about proof of reserves, they care about basically the price of the stock, right? It's doable to do proof of reserves. And the excuses he gave on the security side, I thought were not very good. You know, it exposes our addresses, it enables trolls and all these different things.

I just don't think that matters. And when I hear him say stuff like, you know, if we expose our addresses, it's a security risk. Well, not really. Your addresses are already out there, right? Arkham is pretty sure. I think they have about 87 to 88% of the coins total bought. I've heard people say, you know, the Sailor Simps say that if he exposes the addresses

and the addresses can be monitored and then you establish basically a pattern of when those addresses are accessed. And that tells you when the keys are out and when the keys are away and you can maybe make a move and try and get access to those addresses if you're, you know, an advanced private actor or something. But I just don't, that doesn't resonate. None of that resonates with me. Now he's obviously got much more to be concerned about than you or I on the security side, but I'm not going to say you're a sailor simp. I don't think you are, but I think it's fair to say that you and me both have this

view that he should do the reserves, but do you feel the same? You don't feel the same? I do about it. You said you just watched that speech again and you've sort of taken a different view. What is your view? Look, not your keys, not your coins. So everybody that holds any of these companies is aware of that risk or should be aware of that risk right off the bat.

Now I listened to it twice and the first time I was a hundred percent in your camp, I was like, this is bullshit. Like just knowing what the addresses are, that doesn't give anybody access to anything. And that's, MetaPlanet are doing it, right? So it's not like other people aren't doing it, but the rationale that Sailor did give was rational to me. Like it was, like you said, they don't want them tracked because now they can be tracked

going backwards and forwards. So what? Like for whatever reason, maybe they don't want a proprietary knowledge of like how they do their UTXO management. Maybe they're doing something. We don't need to know. The addresses are out there. They're out there. Arkham has the addresses and a number of other autists on the internet seem to have found these

things. So then what's the point? Then why would they need to do that? Now, these things. So then what's the point? Then why does, why would they need to do that? Now they, MicroStrategy is a NASDAQ listed company. Yeah. They are audited by a big four auditing firm. That's what he said too. Our shareholders care more about the audit than they do about the POR. Yeah. He mentioned that. And the CEO, the CFO, the CFO CEO sign off on this shit. And if anything is wrong, they're criminally liable. Like that is fraud. That's fraud.

So am I 100% sure that they hold the keys? That they hold all those coins? No. But if I'm a micro strategy holder. Do you care that he was found guilty of fraud in early on? Does anyone care about this? That he was like, he's like, like not a suspected fraudster, but like a known convicted fraudster. Does no one care? No one minds that part.

Like no one talks about that. And that's not even the sketchiest thing about it. What's the sketchiest thing? You don't think he might be CIA? I mean, everyone talks about the proximity to the Quantico building, right? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

Right? Is it possible? Honestly, there's a greater probability for me- Can we just talk about this, this fraud thing? Like sailor was convicted of financial fraud, financial misdeeds in, in his capacity as micro strategy founder and CEO in 2001 or 2002, something like that. So no jail time. Sir, no. Okay.

But like no one serves jail time. Only you and me are going to jail for fraud. Okay. No one else. Well, we might be going to jail for what we say tonight. Yeah, exactly. Mike sailor and Quantico probably at my fucking doorstep. He's already done this once. Okay. And so the other thing that bothers me about Bitcoiners,

again, I own MSTR, okay. I've said on the show, my co-host finds it distasteful that I own any equities at all, but I own MSTR and I still buy MSTR every week. But the idea that Bitcoiners are a slay your heroes blob online, killing everyone from Trace Mayer to Roger Ver to Peter McCormick to who knows who else. This guy shows up with a fraud charge, is the guy who's shepherding the corporate masses to Bitcoin and no one's looking at this guy with a second glance. I don't know. To me, I look at that and I think this unwillingness, and it's not just the unwillingness to do proof reserves. I think it's the general unwillingness to engage in debate. And he's,

I've said this on the show a bunch. He just goes on these interviews. You've been dead on with this. Yeah, because he just doesn't care He's he's been very yeah he's team rules every talks to and he has a narrative to push and he pushes it and that's it and I'm arguing with like people who are messaging me. I see my Twitter fucking messages to you. Anyway, he pushes a narrative and The narrative is always And the narrative is always one sided, one hour long,

and one interview deep, and that's it. It's said Youngleman, it's Lavera, and I talked to Sed about this in Montreal last year, and he agreed. He's like, I wanted to ask the guy more questions, but what are you gonna do once he starts? Like, you can't stop him. I sympathize with that. We've had guests that I disagree with sometimes,

and I'm not in the business of engaging for the sake of an argument. I'm in the business of giving people a chance to speak their mind and do long form. And so we do that. But the only guy that pushed back was Safedine. Safedine and Marty. I still point to Marty years ago when Mike came over and Mike was talking about sanctioned mining and the mining council. And Marty was like, you are fucking wrong about this. And Mike couldn't handle the heat that day from a young Marty bent. And so I doubt very much that from a wiser, more experienced Marty bent or from any of these guys who he's actually spoken to and done interviews with, he could, he could handle

a rebuttal, but you know who he does take rebuttals from boomer. Who's that? Who, who do you think, who do you think he takes rebuttals from when he does interviews with this person? Who do you think he takes rebuttals from? When he does interviews with this person, who do you think he actually lets speak? Maybe Natalie Brunel? Natalie fucking Brunel. Semmler board member. All this stuff just rubs me the wrong way.

And I got to be honest, I've said this before on the show, I made a nice little chunk of change buying and selling MSTR last year and it owes me nothing. But I would caution people now who are thinking to themselves, this is gonna be another five-bagger or whatever it was for us, a 10-bagger I think even was probably closer. But I caution people about that now. Things have changed a bit. And the other thing I would say to people who are buying MSTR

because it's a Bitcoin play, there's a lot of Bitcoin plays that don't talk about Bitcoin torque. He's got a lot of competition now. And that competition may do proof of reserves. That competition may encourage a proof of reserves requirement. Oftentimes we talk about how legislation around Bitcoin, especially in the United States, especially from the SEC, has changed in a favorable way over the last

few years. And that's true. But it hasn't changed. Will the competition ever get to 600,000? They may not. But I think pushing micro strategy to be transparent with their Bitcoin vis-a-vis legislation is probably a logical next step. And I'd be surprised if we don't see it because the value of these companies is tied entirely to the stack. And the stack is, you know, it's Schrodinger's Bitcoin, right? It's here when we report our financials, but we can't show you any other time and we won't tell you where it is. I'm not 100% sure these aren't Uncle Sam's coins. Yeah, okay.

And I've been consistent with that from the beginning. That like, I'm not 100% sure that MicroStrategy is the vessel for which the United States government is using to collect Bitcoin. I like this theory. I like this theory. Right? Yeah. And I may or may not be a shareholder in micro strategy and I may or may not have been have been a shareholder of micro strategy for a long time. And I may or may not be biased because I see the returns that I've gotten on that stock. But I'm well aware that I don't own Bitcoin. I own MicroStrategy. Like that is not the same thing.

And I'm confident, well, I don't know how confident, I'm equally as confident that I'm going to be paid out in cash for my MicroStrategy shares than I would be if I had a BlackRock ETF. Yeah, okay. I'll say flat out, I do not have a BlackRock ETF because I don't, we don't do ETFs. I ethically don't align with that company.

Right. So I, I think fidelity is better. So like I, if you're going to hold a Bitcoin ETF, I would say, do your research on the companies and I prefer Fidelity. Right. Not financial advice. I just do your own, do your own advice, do your own work. Do your research on the companies and NFA, right? Not financial advice. I just do your own, do your own advice, do your own work.

But with MicroStrategy, I'm under no illusion that I don't, that is not Bitcoin that I own, right? That is a derivative of Bitcoin at best. It's more or less a derivative of the volatility of Bitcoin than it is the derivative of Bitcoin. If you really think about it. And at any time I realized that I could open up my wealth simple account or my quest rate accounts or my TD Ameritrade account if I don't own any of these things. but if I did that, uh, those shares no longer exist and they're now Donald Trump's coins and I've been paid out in cash for them.

How do you feel about the key man risk with MSDR? Like if Mike drops dead tomorrow after he has like another pizza party on his yacht and things get a little carried away. That was also a bad look. Let's say he invites Stefan Diggs and there's some unidentified bump and run in a bag on the yacht and he gets a little frisky and ends up overboard. He's the third season of White Lotus or whatever. What happens to the stock then?

What is the plan? Do people not think about this? Mike Saylor's not a spring chicken. Anything can happen. I, I, I, there definitely is a cult of personality with that stock, right? That is his stock. Yeah. But much like Apple was with Steve jobs, uh, when Steve jobs left it to Timmy Apple, uh, it, it, it went just fine for shareholders.

Yeah. So far. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. So I, I, I far. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair. So far. So I'm confident that the keys are well taken care of.

Okay. But like hear me out on this. When you go, when you watch the MSTR quarterly reports, right? The quarterly releases, it's basically just an hour and a half sailor seminar on Bitcoin every time, right? The quarterly releases. It's basically just an hour and a half sailor seminar on Bitcoin every time, right? He's talking about Bitcoin for the company. Bitcoin is a store of value. He's talking about how other companies should adopt it. He's really the guy holding the banner for Bitcoiners in a lot of ways. I fully admit this as a guy who's benefited not only on the MSTR side, but certainly on the Bitcoin side. We preach spot buys on this show.

You preach spot buys when you're on the air with us and on the air other places. And I think everybody does that. We've all benefited from Sailor's willingness to put himself out there. And by putting himself out there, he's really done us a lot of good, a lot of good, right? He's done a lot of good stuff for us. Do you think like, like Fong or whatever that guy's name is

could make the same hour and a half presentation about Bitcoin? Do you think he can be the same evangelist that Mike is for Bitcoin with companies? He can't. And so my, my sort of concern is not just that it's negative for micro strategy. It's that if we lose this guy who seems to be convincing many millions of people at this point that Bitcoin is thinking to be invested in both personally and as a corporation, we will suffer for it. Do you have any thoughts on that? Then somebody else will rise up.

Who's rising up? Who's rising up? I don't know. Where is the guy rising up? Maybe you and Lin. When the CBP goes public and then the guy rising up? Maybe it'll be you and Len. When CBP goes public and then you buy out Len, maybe you'll be out there pitching CBP shares. I'm on Money Talks tomorrow.

I got to come up with a Mike Saylor. I haven't decided. Talking to the Money Talks audience is fun because they are not like you and I, obviously in a lot of ways. I mean, they're certainly not our demo, but they're also just not as invested in any of this stuff as we are. They're not terminally online. They're not looking at their phone while they're taking a shit like we are.

And sometimes I think about how to talk to them. And I listen to Mike's show all the time, and there's a lot of smart people on there who have really strong opinions, negative opinions, about Michael Saylor and MicroStrategy, both the company and the man. They point to stuff like the fraud. They point to stuff like the insane new financial metrics he's inventing to try and pump up the price of his stock. So talking to them, sometimes I think about whether or not I should address strategy and Saylor. And I don't know if I will tomorrow or not, but I have this feeling that the Lord is going to speak to me overnight and make a suggestion one way or the other.

And I'm kind of leaning toward doing it and just saying, it's not lost on me. And it's not lost on a lot of Bitcoiners that Michael Saylor is in the most generous interpretation and acquired taste. And for a lot of people, that taste is even more difficult to acquire because the index investing they've been told to do has failed them in a lot of ways compared to micro strategy. The real estate they were told to buy at 2020, 2021 because it was a great investment as rates were coming down is getting nuked. It's getting nuked by Bitcoin and by MSDR.

And a lot of people now are starting to realize that this is the wave of the future. And a lot of traditional financial people just, for lack of a better term, they just fucking missed it. And so they're sour. And I sometimes consider whether or not Sailor in terms of bringing people into the fold for Bitcoin is a positive or a negative. Once you're here, you either love him or hate him, but he's pumping your bags. But if you're not here, then it's a lot harder to convince people that this is a guy they should listen to. I just, you know, I don't know where I'm going with that, but it seems to me to be the case. Like anyone I talk to about Bitcoin always mentioned Sailor and how fucking weird they think he is and how out to lunch they think

he is. And I can kind of appreciate the sentiment, honestly. Yeah, he's different. That's for sure. But how many people actually do understand what they're doing over there at MicroStrategy? I don't know. Strategy. Very few. You think? Very few people. Oh, you mean like outside of the... Like the action.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, like the strategy, you know, like MNav, when MNav blows up higher, they issue more shares. Yes, yes, yes. They issue more shares, they buy more Bitcoin. That drives the price of Bitcoin up. That drives the MNav up. Then they can issue more shares. Like ironically enough, that like Financial Times hit piece that they did on Sailor and

Strategy. Yeah. Ironically enough, that graphic that they created to show that little flywheel was one of the best explanations. It works. Yeah, that works to explain it. It does a really good job of explaining it. How many people actually understand that? How many people actually think, and even Bitcoiners, among Bitcoiners, and I've had to answer this question. Michael Saylor is just taking on debt to buy Bitcoin. How many people

think that? Yeah, a bunch probably. That's not really true. No, that's, there's some, a lot of nuance to that. Wow. The N word. Oh my God. Hardly ever uttered on this program. I, you know what? I, I agree with you. I think that it's true that people view this as taking debt to buy Bitcoin partially because... And liquidation price. How many times have you said, oh, what's micro strategy? Everybody wants to know. Yeah. Everybody wants to know. Yeah. They don't get it that it's converts, right? But you know what? In their defense, when you look at the tweets from a strategy on issuance days, what do they say? Right? They issued bonds, they issued...

And so that's code for debt for a lot of people. They understand what a bond is in terms of the government bonds and things of this nature. And so they read it like that. Again, like I kind of blame strategy for that, not necessarily the individual investor. And then don't forget, like I mentioned, because people have this slant against Saylor, they read it in the least favorable way possible, right? The least generous interpretation is the one that they take with them and the one they pass along and they become a node for this, you know, dare I say misinformation. I think I would probably call it that because some people should know better, right? When I look at like friends of the show, like Kevin Muir or even Doonberg, you

know, he's spoken negatively about that strategy as well in his letter. And I think it's kind of picking and choosing how you view that strategy because you don't like Bitcoin necessarily. I think that if you don't like Bitcoin, right off the bat, you have a bias and it'll be difficult for you to get it. Some people can still get it, but that's, that's a hard jump. Should we talk about, yeah, okay. I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm, aside from just listening to the podcast 40 hours a week, like I actually do know a little

bit about finance and economics. Like I actually do. Uh, and I, it took me a long time to sit down and actually learn what these guys are doing over at strategy. It took, it took me a long time to sit down and actually learn what these guys are doing over at strategy. It took me a while. I still, I only know it like from a rudimentary sort of entry level. Yeah. And I, and I watch MSTR true North every Wednesday night. Yeah.

And I, I probably understand 95% of what they're talking about. And that probably puts me into the top decile of watchers of that show. You're the top 1% of the top 95%? I'm probably in the top 5% to 10%, 5%. Top 3, top 7. And I don't understand all of it. And I don't understand all of it. So how much, how many people out there

are pretty heavily invested in this stock and don't understand? Okay, help me. And how many people are out there talking shit about it that understand even less? What if they don't understand it that well is my question. MSG R True North is an interesting case study. Sometimes I listen, I used to listen to MSG R True North when it was like just the Twitter space or whatever every couple of weeks.

Oh, those were the good old, when Rye Quant was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would turn it on and they were calling, you know, the kid analysts or whatever. I thought that was pretty funny. Ever since that Tim Cotsman guy told me that 225 wasn't that much to squat and then wouldn't post a picture of his physique, I just assume he's a loser milk bag clown. So yeah. Well, I mean, if you don't post physique, like you're, you're

a loser. So anyway, uh, that aside, I look at the, I look at the MSTR true North guys and I think to myself, okay, yeah, they are invested in the stock for sure. But now what are they invested in? Uh, specifically like punter and, uh, Cosman, you know, th their whole life now revolves around that stock punterter quit his job. It's the brand. Yeah, he quit his fucking job to talk about a stock. Like I make fun of my buddy, R. Bill Simmons podcast for having a podcast about a subreddit about a podcast, but like, I'm not sure which is worse.

At least R. Bill Simmons still has his day job. Punter quit his day job to talk about a stock, to talk, basically to talk about a guy who is pumping his stock on the internet, more or less, this is what he does now. And there's something admirable about that level of commitment, but at the same time, now it's another guy who's got a pretty big financial interest, not only in the price of the stock,

but in the conversation around the price of the stock, but in the conversation around the price of the stock and the conversation around sailor and the conversation and admittedly, I think not enough people know even guys who say they're experts on Twitter and there are many who say they're experts on Twitter don't know a fucking thing. Many, many people are watching this guy and saying, yeah, he's right. He's right. But they don't know if he's right. And I think a lot of the times those MSTR True North guys don't know if they're right or not. They're interpreting things like someone reading an ancient religious text. Like this is what Mike Saylor means when he says X and Y. He means, he means A and B. And sometimes it, I mean, it's not all the time. They do point to a lot of data. They are data driven over there. I'll give them that. But other times they're interpreting the Old Testament. And that's not a game you want to be in when your entire life, career, and investment portfolio revolves around the implicated ticker symbol. And so I have a bit of a problem with that too, from being on.

It's worked out pretty well for them so far. So far? I mean, so far is pretty important, wouldn't you say? It hasn't been that long. What are we saying in Bitcoin all the time? We're so early, but somehow MSTR is a done deal. I don't know, man. Bitcoin Treasuries are a done deal, I don't know. Those guys doing calls and leaps and all these things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That in itself is, forget about micro-strategy. That is dangerous in any stock, and that it, that, that requires a level of understanding that I don't even, I don't have an, I don't probably never want to have like that type of,

so they're doing that type of strategy, doing these long dated calls long on a stock that's incredibly volatile. And it worked out for them so far. It would seem like, right? To date. Yeah. And think about what that does to your bias. A hundred percent. Obviously. What does that do? What does that do? Priestess in the chat, like, oh my God, carrying water for the punter. We don't know anything about his life and why he actually quit his job. We fucking know he did the video talking about he quit his job because he wanted to talk about MSDR. Good for him. He's living the dream. He's

doing what he wants to do for sure. And there's something admirable about that, like I said, but to your point, Boomer, what would that do to your bias? It would amplify it hundreds of times. Hundreds of times, you know? Yeah. It would just, that's a hell of an anchoring bias. If you've just went a hundred X on some long dated options way out of the money, right? You just put a thousand dollars on something that just went 5,000 X, right? Yeah. What else should we talk about?

We can talk about GameStop. GameStop. Okay, sure. I thought we were going to start with GameStop. We need to talk about GameStop. GameStop. I thought we were going to start with GameStop. I don't care about GameStop. I'm the wrong guy, honestly, to be doing this conversation because I just don't give a fuck about much of this stuff. But the GameStop thing, I mean, this guy, talk about a master of cult stock cult ship, cult followings, whatever, whether it was the Wall Street bets

saga from years ago and now Bitcoin these days, legend, like just doing whatever you can to pump that stock price, except sell video games. True financial genius. I mean, what did they buy today? They bought 4,100 Bitcoin, something like that. Yep. Yeah. They announced that they bought it. didn't tell us what they paid. Didn't tell us when they bought it. Pleditor, I think Pleditor found it somewhere. It was like 108 or something? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then so it ended up being just a little over 500 million, something

like that. They have about $1.5 dollars raised and allocated towards buying Bitcoin. Are they doing bonds too? They're doing debt? Well, they had cash on hand, right? Yeah, yeah. But are they doing that? They issue shares of the money.

I think they issued shares at the money. Okay. They're sitting on a ton of cash too. Like, sure. Like I think 4 billion, if I'm not mistaken. Micro strategy in itself is a weird not my strategy, which is we moved on to GameStop. GameStop in itself is its own crazy ass cult stock, right? That has a wild story to it. But they, here's a company that was left for dead, shorted to shit.

You know, we know the story with the apes and the Reddit and all the way to Hollywood making a movie. And fucking Robin Hood. Robin Hood in the fucking movie is the villain. It's like one of the main villains. Did you see who's Bitcoin 2025 on the first page of sponsors? No. Robin Hood. It's Robin Hood. Yeah, yeah. We talked about it on sponsors. No. Robinhood.

Oh, it's Robinhood. Yeah, yeah, we talked about this on Monday. Of all the people, like Robinhood. I don't know what I think about the GameStop thing. I, again, like, I keep coming back to like, and maybe this shouldn't matter to me at all, but I keep coming back to how does this make us look to people who want to come into the space? Everyone knows the GameStop story. Everyone knows how retarded that got, you know, five

years ago. Why do you care about how we look? You're right. You're right. But I do care because I think that now we're entering the next sort of epoch of investing in Bitcoin, holding Bitcoin, using Bitcoin, all these things. And like you mentioned earlier, you need high levels of capital, like significant capital inflows to move from 100,000 to a million. And that's the next step here.

So we have to attract that capital somehow. And it's going to be harder to attract that capital. Why do we have to attract it? Well, because if we want the price to go up, we need to attract the capital. Like we need to go from- It's going to come. Just like Omar said to Brother Mouzou, worrying about it is like worrying if the sun's going to come up. I think there's something to be said about the attractiveness to stuff like, I don't

know, endowments, pensions, things of this nature. Now there's some pensions obviously buying iBit and MSTR already, but as a general rule, I think we could do better and would be better off if GameStop wasn't making headlines for buying Bitcoin trying to resurrect this business. And you know what? Okay. So tell me why. Give me the other side.

Give me the opposite case. Like, first of all, like what is, what, what do people like the broader institutional, the broader financial world, what do they think about bitcoins? I think it's actually improved quite a bit. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't. I talked to some macro normies, like big name macro normies from time to time, just because I know them from the podcast and they send me messages when we're on a rip and they still think we're nuts.

So I can't like, if you think we're nuts at a hundred, I don't know how it's gonna change at a million, but you know, it is what it is. I don't think it matters what people think about us. Like I think the GameStop is interesting. Like there's still a pretty heavily shorted stock that has cash on hand. Yeah.

So that is the perfect company to buy Bitcoin, in my opinion. Now they're a relatively large company by market cap. Yeah. But do you wanna be holding GameStop short now, if they have 10, right now, now 5,000, but let's say that gets to 20,000 coins on hand, and that represents a 10%, 15, 20% of their

market cap. And you're sitting there shorting that company knowing that on a Saturday afternoon, Bitcoin can spike 20,000 dollars, you know, and then Monday morning you show up and your firm is You know, and then Monday morning you show up and your firm is completely done. Yeah. Now, five years ago, four or five years ago, when the craziness was happening with GameStop, they had the off switch. Right. And they and they fucking used it. Yeah.

Big time. They turned out that like Robin Hood turned off. Yeah. Turned off buys on GameStop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go watch Dumb money. It wasn't a great movie. Wasn't it? Wasn't like I went in. I went into that moving thinking it was going to be as good as the big short.

And I left being pretty disappointed. But that being said, it wasn't awful. It wasn't just wasn't as good as the big short. Yeah. It just was it was mid. Right. But they turned off the fucking button. Yeah. Right. It was mid. But they turned off the fucking button. They can't turn off the button if they hold 20,000 Bitcoin or whatever the number is, X amount of percentage of Bitcoin and Bitcoin spikes on the weekend. That is going to make short sellers shit their pants.

Yeah, that's a good point. Actually, it's a decent defense against the short sellers right to have a Bitcoin position that will pump your stock If things go up, there's no off switch to that. What if it's just That's not a bad strategy honestly Boomer. Ryan Cohen goes on TV and says look Yeah, like a you know, I've been talking to the sailor guy. I've been reading Bitcoin magazine I've been listening to the Canadian Bitcoin podcast. You know, this Bitcoin thing, you know, like we got cash on hand and yeah, I see the volatility and you know, I'm not gonna buy too much of it,

but I'm gonna buy enough of it that it's cash on hand that we're not quite sure what to do with this money anyway. And you know, we don't want the short sellers to short our fucking stock. So this is insurance against people coming in aggressively shorting our stock because we don't want someone to turn off the fucking buy button like they did last time. I do like that. Let's get out of here on two questions. One that I'm pulling from John in the chat. I won't say that the company needs to report its financials in terms of

Bitcoin, but let's take it a different direction. What is the likelihood in your view that over the next, let's say two years, a Mag-7 company makes a Bitcoin buy and publicizes it and defends it and tries to use it to get other people to embrace Bitcoin? The Mag-7 right now is what? Nvidia, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Tesla, maybe Facebook, Facebook and Netflix. Is that it? Fan mags, right? Fat man. I think it's cool. I don't think Netflix is in there. I don't know. Well, let's say let's, well, well, it doesn't matter. Yeah, whatever. You get the idea. Probably not. Okay. I think, I think Facebook meta is probably the leader in the clubhouse of being the most likely. Maybe Apple would do something with Apple Pay and say like, Oh, we now accept Bitcoin

and your Apple Pay account now has a lightning wallet. I wouldn't be shocked if that happened. But I would be pretty surprised if they held any of it on reserves. Okay. And then maybe the second question, last one. There's a lot of talk about this cycle underperforming others in terms of the bottom to top. I think to match the 2017 to 2020 epoch or 2020 or was it 20 to 24, whatever it is, we have to get up past 300 or something like that. Do I have that right? 300 US. It's quite a significant jump from here anyway. Should we be happy or disappointed with that? I'll answer first. I think we should be happy

about it because less volatility is probably good long-term. Although the huge gains may be gone for new entrants. I still think probably it's better to not have these 100X moves over the course of four years or eight years, 10X over four years, whatever. Where do you come down on that? I don't give a shit about price. I legitimately, like ask anybody who really knows me. Like I legitimately don't give a fuck about price. I care more about getting my 40 hours

of Bitcoin podcast listening in than I care about the price of Bitcoin. That is a hundred percent true. I had a meetup last week and just for fun, the guys we were talking about, nobody gives a shit about Bitcoin. Nobody knows. Like we are, that's how nobody knows anything.

I think that's true. Yeah, we are about a 10th the size of gold, right? Right now. Make it, I think, yeah. How many true two trillion? I think let's say, yeah, give or take, give or take a 10th of the price of gold. So if we 10 X from here and we were the same price as gold, let's say we 12 X because gold went up a little bit, but we caught up.

We caught up to gold where We made parity. Yeah. We made parity with gold. Do you still think anybody would give a shit? No, it wouldn't fucking matter, Joey. Wouldn't matter. I asked around. I literally like we go to the same restaurant all the time. So I asked a couple of the servers. It's like, you know, and these these, you know, these are just normal,

you know, mid 20s people. Right. right yeah I asked them what's the price of Bitcoin no idea okay let's price of gold what's the price of gold no idea they didn't know the price of gold so they don't know the price of gold they don't know the price of Bitcoin so if we go up 10x 12x 15x it's not gonna fucking matter at all At all What matter okay, so If it goes to 300 from here at three X's it's like I don't know in a way I guess like my bags will be pumped if I had Bitcoin again I'm not saying that I have any may or may not I may or may not have any

But at the same time my my daily DCA, my, my, my, uh, my branded bid ax Canadian Bitcoiners podcast bid ax that spews 50 sats a day, right? You know, those 50 sats a day that I get from that bid ax would be worth a lot more, right? If it went up. That's the hope. But if you're DCAing, don't you want it to stay low? Yeah I do. And I think that a lot of people to your point.

And John in the chat saying the same thing, like I'm not sure those people matter. And maybe none of those things matter. Yeah. Do we matter? I don't know. Only too few people. Tell me a bit about what you're doing. Where can people find out about you?

You run the meetups. You mentioned that. I don't want to leave without you plugging the meetup. So go ahead. Yeah. I host a meetup in Ottawa. So just find me on Twitter somewhere and just out of what Bitcoin meetup, you'll get it. And if you're not in Ottawa, go to a meetup in your town, go to a conference, meet people in real life.

I'm doing a Bitcoin walk this weekend. Bitcoin walk, you're aware of this? The guy in Scotland? We did, I was on MarriVillage with him last year. Cool. So I'm one of two people in Canada that are part of his little cabal. And I host a walk in Ottawa. We walk around the Ottawa Canal. So we're doing that for the summer. Yeah, I'm doing that. You can always find me Monday nights, 7 p.m. in the chat. That's right.

I think I started episode 38. I think it was episode 38. I don't know. What are we on now? We're on like 114 or something. Maybe more than that. I have no idea. We're more than that. Are we? I have no idea. idea no we got to be like 200 now I think right yeah yeah so I'm episode 38 was my first one I think I've missed one love it maybe two I think I've been one or two is it true I had good reasons is it true that you I have watched CBP on a date before. More than once. More than once. I love it. Let's get out of here. God bless you. Yeah. And listen to Bitcoin podcast support Bitcoin podcast. 40 hours a week, man. Do your 40 hours a week. Get those hours in. Don't fuck it up. We'll see you next time,

boys and girls. Thanks to Boomer for coming out and take care of yourselves.