The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The New Bitcoin Consortium Changes Everything | The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Nine of the biggest names in finance put up $15 million between them. IBM alone is spending $10 billion.On July 23 the Bitcoin Security Consortium launched: BlackRock, Coinbase, Strategy, Block, Blockstream, Anchorage Digital, ARK Invest, Fidelity Digital Assets and Galaxy, pledging $15 million over three years for post-quantum research. There is no pooled fund and no governance role over the protocol — every firm writes its own cheques, and Brink's Mike Schmidt coordinates the whole thing as an unpaid volunteer. Joey and Len take the obvious objection seriously and then take the other side seriously too, because that structure was built specifically to make capture harder, not easier.The number everyone will repeat is 6.9 million BTC — roughly $460 billion — sitting in address types a working quantum computer could empty. That's a Google Quantum AI estimate, and estimates vary widely: other researchers put the exposed share anywhere from 20% to 50% of supply. No such machine exists. Adam Back says decades. Project Eleven's CEO says 2029 worst case, 2033 base case.Then: Jack Mallers walks away from Twenty One Capital and the treasury model keeps coming apart — Satsuma liquidating all 668 BTC, Sequans down more than 80%, Strategy selling 3,588 coins to fund a dividend. And CertiK's numbers on physical attacks against holders, including Canada's own file.Plus Clown World North: a Vancouver council hearing took public comment from Los Angeles, Ottawa waived the reporting requirements on a $12.1 million grant that has produced zero excavations in five years, and Alberta pulled a 2.4-pound goldfish out of a stormwater pond.The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - New episodes weekly.X: https://x.com/CanadianBTCPodJoey: https://x.com/joeytweeetsLen: https://x.com/thebtcpricebotSite: https://canadianbitcoiners.com#Bitcoin #BitcoinSecurity #Quantum #Canada

Tonight on CBP. Wow, I didn't leave with friends and enemies. Friends and enemies tonight on CBP, the lead story. I mean, it's got to be the Bitcoin Consortium, right? Mike Saylor and every other big money hedge fund slash investing slash whatever. All getting together and what are they doing, Len? They're going to try and tell us how Bitcoin should function, how it should operate, what they should be spending money on in terms of devs.

and some other stuff. We're also going to talk about Jack Mallors, leaving 21, what that means for the space and maybe for Jack, too, among other things. We got lots to talk about tonight, but first as always, you know, the government can say whatever they want about this thing not competing. It's for black market only. It's for this for that. But they're really treating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. enemies. Welcome back. Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be

better informed. Listen to 11. Joey. Spots is taking care off right off the top. Oh, Bitcoin and DNS. The media is feeding us. We are so back. We are so back. Where do we go? Big show. I mean, we've been gone for a week. Big show tonight, though. Lots to talk about. I mean, this consortium thing is going to drive people mental, I'm pretty sure. Once the BIP 110 stuff dies down, this is going to be the new favorite topic of discussion for the podcaster class and probably also the anon pleb class if I had to guess so look out for that first though I got my merch from the consortium by the way so I'm gonna be

I can't wait to see first is always the sponsors easy DNS Mark and the team over there best in slot best in silo best in class for any registrar needs you have so if you want to start a website he can do it for you if you want to port a website he can do it for you want to buy a domain he's got you port a domain no problem Don't forget, we use Mark for our Canadian Bitcoins.com website where there is a post today, a newsletter, I will admit, largely done by AI, but I still think quite good. With all the stories we're going to talk about tonight, sourcing some commentary around them,

and much more done with WordPress. Piece of cake, man. If you have the time and the chops to put together something that looks nice, it's easy to get it to translate to the website. You can use our promo code CBP Media. get half off your first round of buys. So whether that's a domain name or you want to do some virtual private server stuff or you want to do Claudebot, Marks got you. EasyDNS.

And it's in the name, of course, as well, EasyDNS. So go to EasyDDS.com. CBP Media is the promo code. Half off your first cart. Can't beat it, man. Load up. Don't wait. Act now, all that good stuff.

And what else is you load up on, Joey, it's Bitcoin. And where would you do that? Would you just go to the corner store? Used to be able to. Not anymore. Don't you go to any old exchange. No, no, you go to the best in the game. That's bold Bitcoin, non-custodial.

And this is what you want in an exchange. We'll be talking about that later in a show. Why it is you don't want to trust anybody to hold on to your Bitcoin? So build Bitcoin in order to facilitate a buy, you have to provide an Bitcoin address. When you complete the buy, they send you that Bitcoin to the address you provide. Simple, wonderful. So this is how the thing should work. You can do reoccurring buy.

So if you want to do some DCAs, you like the price as it is now or what you think is going to be tomorrow. You could do that. You could do limit orders so you can set up whenever you think things you're going to be coming out in your future. And you can also use the bull Bitcoin wallet. Check it out because this is integrated with their suite of products that they offer. You can pay bills with them. You could send money to your friends by using Bitcoin and Fiat ends up in their account. Also when fees get a little too high, which does happen every so often.

We're not there yet. But you know what? The option's available to use something like Lightning. And you could use that. And that is a wonderful way to circumvent high fees. And it will be immediately sent to you. Very cheap. And that's another option that's available to you with Bull Bitcoin.

They build everything within their own house. Their software is done. They don't rely on third party. Garbage software. That's one layer of protection you get that others don't provide you. Check them out. Available in Canada. Costa Rica, Argentina, Colombia, Europe, Western Europe.

but we're talking EU. Yeah. And maybe to a country near you in the next little while. Check them out. Use our promo code below to sign up. And by doing so, all your buys and sales are going to be cheaper forever. Yeah, we like that. No doubt about that.

You want to do some boost here? What do we got on the boost side? Only two boosts for this week. And I appreciate everybody does do the boost. And this week, the first honors go to Moab BTC Dick, 500 sats. And he says, this is for you, Joey. any chance access of easy comes to fountain because I know you're doing that

if not where do you guys suggest I listen I thought it would be on fountain but if it's not sure I could help you go out to make sure it's there yeah we should put it there I would I would love people to go to YouTube for it we're closing it on a thousand subscribers and you guys know like the YouTube grind is absolutely brutal but we've had a couple

of really popular videos I say really popular like you know 70,000 plays it's just hard to get into The Algo. And so what I really want is for people listen to that show, listen to it front to back, leave a like, leave a comment, subscribe to the videos if you haven't already. And every week when they come out, they come out usually Saturday or Sunday, depending on when I have time to finish the editing. And I got to tell you, like, I think that show is really good. And the people who listen to it think it's really good. And I wish people understood that it's so much, there's so much overlap between the stuff we talk about on that program and stuff we talk about here. Because let's face it, you're talking about over there, like I always say, you know, data breaching and overreaching. And here on the CBP, we often are adjacent to those topics because governments are, the power creep is real. The surveillance creep is real. And the erosion of your rights, man, as much as I hate to say, it is real too.

And you got to be aware of these things. I mean, we'll talk about graphene and that whole thing tonight and probably a handful of other stories that will hit close to home on both sides of the, you know, both sides of the line in terms of the two shows. I really think people should be listening to that. So yeah, go subscribe if you haven't already. And of course, Len just said he's going to try and put us on Fountain. So we'll tell you if we take care of that, you know, this week or next week. Well, make an announcement, I guess, initial. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And there's a lot of overlap between this show and that show. So if you do like this, you probably will like that. And I just want to give a shout out. I know I'm not finished the boost because it just reminded me what you're talking about, that you're getting a lot of plays there.

Like, CBP. I think is high a signal and same with access of easy. Work against really big podcasts and clearly, you know, we're just doing this on our spare time. This isn't our full time gig and still a lot of people appreciate us. And some people, like, I'll

use George's an example, give you a shout-out. You know, he says this is our favorite, his favorite podcast as a CBP. Yeah, yeah. I love hearing shit like that. But either way, I want to go to the next one, which is business cat and I don't want to, you know, to lessen his, he's got to get some spotlight. for his boost.

1337 sats. And he writes, when you flee Canada, pick a destination at least 2,000 feet above sea level. He loves talking about the pole shift.

He's talking about the pole shift there. I want to bring like Luke on to talk about that at some point and I want to bring fundamentals on to talk about his thoughts

on BIP 110, MSTR, the whole like culture around Bitcoin. I listen to obviously like the rock paper Bitcoin show. with the two of them. I think that's a fantastic podcast too.

And the one thing I will also point out is that to podcasts in a bear market is an entirely different game than podcasting when the price is high. You know, you're talking about stuff that oftentimes is not, you know, super sexy. And, you know, obviously, like I just finished doing BitCast. BitCast is another hour and a half

that you're talking about stuff that oftentimes is like very divisive. Like people want to argue about this stuff. They don't want to just like celebrate and dunk. It's not all roses and. and rainbows during these times. And podcasting is no different. So shout to, you know, shout to Brian and Luke for what they're doing over at Rock Paper

Bitcoin. You know, boomer and Luke doing the 49th. And there's other shows out there that I'm forgetting. And that, you know, I wish I hadn't mentioned those two by name now because I'll probably catch some shit from the shows I'm not talking about. But, you know, there's right into Joey and make sure that he remembers. Yeah, yeah. P.O. Box, 69, 420.

The whole thing about doing this kind of thing, like Glenn said, it is a hobby first and foremost. But the people you meet and the sort of, you know, the skills you develop doing this pretty regularly are invaluable for sure. And, you know, CBP's got a great listener base. It's growing all the time. And it's, it's been a lot of fun. I don't expect to, I don't expect to stop this train anytime soon. So price to damn. The more I think about it, because there's going to be a point in time and I think I know when I'm at least I hope I know when when I will pick up and I will pick up and go somewhere else I still would like to continue doing this even though it would be different time zone I would still love to do it it would be pain in the ass for me to continue to do

it based on on the time of day take it over there take a page out of ben parents book ben parent's doing the other shows from Europe right now so you know maybe you'll uh maybe he's got yeah but it's a temporary thing if it's more of a permanent thing it's different right so anyways let's let's let's and that side of the things. Any other items you want to check off your list? Not off top of my head. I am considering picking up interviews again shortly. There's some people I had to cancel on because I just didn't have time for a while.

And I got to be honest, I might start doing them during the day again because I want to get them done. And there's some content that I think is important people here. No guarantees. You picked my brain, man. It seems like you pick my, because there's one guy in particular I want to bring on. And it's going to be, I don't want to say. Okay. I think the timing is...

David Bailey. Yeah, why not? You know what? I would love to ask him face to face why I don't get a reply back from his company when I leave a voicemail. I'm a potential investor and I don't get any information.

Like, why am I useless? Am I not? My capital luck. I don't get it. But there was one space, though, he was on. And he was talking negatively towards BIP 110. Yeah, I think he gets that. He gets that for sure.

What the hell is this? A lot of, listen, a lot of, I think a lot of Bitcoiners get it. Some, some, I think are, I mean, it's become like a mass hysteria in a lot of ways. But, you know, I don't care what happens with BIP 110. I hope that other people, that we all return to our senses when this thing, when the dust settles and we can get back to, you know. No, I think I don't want to go to make this a B110 moment, but I understand what you're trying to achieve is just the method in which. they're doing so it's just it's a whack-a-mole thing so I don't think it's really gonna work let's talk about the bitcoin consortium here mining no I want to talk about Bitcoin mining council because

that was the first useless fucking thing out there but there's competition out there New York agreement right was another one mine council now this bird something New York agreement at least it led to segue it led to right like without that we wouldn't be where we are today there wouldn't have been up work to send the big blocker somewhere else yeah but the big blocker somewhere else yeah but Bitcoin Mining Council, useless, but there's competition now with this fucking Bitcoin Consortium, Bitcoin Security Consortium.

I don't understand how this is going to be something that's going to transfer into it, something that's good for Bitcoin. Either way, people out there might be yawning. What the fuck is this Bitcoin Security Consortium? You ought not to be yawning. You ought not to be yawning. Well, it is, if you really look at it,

what they're trying to achieve and how they're going to achieve it, good luck. So the nine entities, involved. Make note of these these nine entities. We got Black Rock. We have Coinbase strategy, fidelity, Galaxy, Block, Arc, Blockstream, Anchorage.

I mean, the list, maybe two, you could say, are, you know, decent players, maybe, right? But who are the two? Blockstream and Anchorage? Blockstream and block? I would go block and block stream. Maybe, maybe. I mean, that's, and I'm, you know, that's kind of a stretch, but the rest, clearly, I don't think we, I don't say we, I don't think me as a Bitcoin or the way I view myself as a Bitcoin or align with the rest of

them, maybe all nine too, to be more specific here, but I think a lot of others might fall in that same camp, but I don't want to speak for others. I want to speak for me. And they are going to be given $15 million in funding over 50, over three years. And that 15 million, what are going to use to support open source Bitcoin mining developers and research to try to develop a long-term strategy to strengthen the health of the Bitcoin network. Because right now there's that looming threat, which may be the sort of Damocles just waiting to drop on ourselves, or maybe it's just some far off. We don't know.

The quantum computing I'm talking about, and this is what they want to do with this. I know people out there are fucking yawning some more. I get it. And these guys want to be pushing for some post-quantum cryptography like BIP, 360. Sorry, Bip 360, we talked about it. I think every so often, we should do a deep dive into BIP 360. In the same time, we do a deep dive in BIP 110, but I guess it's not really the story for today. But anyways, the people who are concerned about those that are involved, you know, these guys, they want to look at it. They want to do something here that is centralized.

Nine fucking companies out there. They wanted to come up with these new ideas. They want to model themselves into some sort of traditional open source software foundation that could usher in a new way of securing Bitcoin network fuck off. I just want to, right? Just a reminder, if it's open source doesn't mean it's good. I know they want to be some open source software foundation. Ethereum is open source software. The Ethereum foundation is also open source. Don't tell me that stuff is fucking decentralized because if you are, you're trying to sell me a fucking bridge and I'm not going to fucking buy it. And they say they will not pull the capital

in one spot. Each of these companies will direct their money independently. I guess they don't trust each other. And they're going to do it to direct these money to researchers, developers, and grants of their own choice. Now, if you have a consortium and

they're just independently allocating money however they want, why the fuck do you even need a consortium? They're just independently doing it. Just fucking do it independently. Don't fucking create a name and just Add yourself to some big list of group of people that you think that you're better than us. I say, fuck up. And beyond this facade here, this is a consortium, working together.

And they're saying that they're trying to achieve a common goal. God bless them. They also plan to act as a source of truth of any Black Rock acting of a source of truth. And they want to do so for mainstream investors because they want to attract capital, right? They want to traditional finance. They want to get that in these institutional investors, media. They want to just suck this all in it. and try to show that Bitcoin.

It's a wonderful system. And here's how we are going to make it even more wonderful for you to invest your money. They want to publish regular credible status reports on Bitcoin's cryptographic resilience. Yeah. And they want to deal with the FUD surrounding quantum Bitcoin. Now, I don't know about you. If I'm going to pull 100 fucking normies out there, why it is you're not going to invest in Bitcoin. If I get more than one that say quantum, I'll be fucking floored.

I will hear it's a scam. I don't know much about it. I don't trust the shit like that. Quantum is definitely not on the list of why it is I'm not going to invest in Bitcoin. You don't think? Yeah, you don't think? I'll fucking, you know what? Tomorrow, I'm going to see if I could do.

I'm going to go up to 10 fucking normies. Just ask and see. And if I get quantum as one, I'll report back to you. And if I don't, I'll still report back. But anyways, these losers, I got. They want to do what's best for Bitcoin. Whatever. Keep in mind, Michael Saylor, part of strategy and strategy is one of these companies on his consortium.

He's on record saying that one of the things he would like to see with respect to quantum, because quantum could threaten some addresses out there, some old addresses and take the coin. One of his ideas was the freezing of assets. The freezing of fucking assets that are susceptible to quantum computers. Why would you want to put anything out there where you're, going to freeze assets. You're freezing assets today that somebody now can't move it tomorrow. Should it

may be susceptible to quantum, but if they don't want to move it or they can't because they lost the keys they're dead, fuck them. Let's move on. Because what's going to happen is how will this line, they draw a line in this end, but that line will move forward and forward. And eventually, will across to the point where I can't move my Bitcoin because of

what I said, what I did, how I acted or whatever. Bitcoin is supposed to be fucking free of censorship. This is not what it is. You're adding more censorship the fucking big one. I don't like this fucking thing one bit. Wish them luck. I don't support it at all, but fuck them.

I don't like this either, honestly. I don't know how you could. You know, it's the, I'm here from the consortium and I'm here to help, you know, government meme. These people, you know, if you look at like Fink, Armstrong, a few others, they haven't really been acting in the best interest of Bitcoin, have they? You could also maybe make the case of Sailor's not doing that now either. He's trying to protect his company more than he's worried about his stack.

I know there's some contention around that thesis, but for the time being, I think that's probably where I sit. The interesting thing, obviously, is that there's some good Bitcoiners in here, too. Like, you can see what you want about Adam back. I know guys like Cratter and other Bip 1-10ers, but you know, hate the guy all of a sudden. But Blockstream and then Dorsey over at Block, like these are, I'm not. I think good Bitcoiners. And, yeah, I mean, Dorsey for sure is. You know, Adam back, you can say whatever you want.

But Dorsey, I think, is like, you know, about as pure as they come, especially on the corporate side. You know, so are those guys doing, you know, what are they doing when they're joining this? Are they signaling to you, the Pleb, that they have faith that the guys who are generally, you know, sort of these untameable jungle cats, you know, ruthless capitalists, ruthless destroyers of worlds, these guys that manifest destiny, they don't wait for it to happen to them, are they saying that they can be trusted or that they will act in a way that makes sense for the asset? Or are they saying that maybe they can't be, but it's better to be in the room than

not in the room when some of these decisions are made and these discussions are happening. I don't believe the funds will be independently allocated. I just don't think that that makes any sense. I do think that they view quantum as a risk. And Fidelity's digital asset reporting from May says that it's a risk as well for their investors. Now, you can ask me what, what kind of investor they're talking about? Are they talking about ETF investors or spot investors? It doesn't say. But the May 226 report does say that quantum is something that they're hearing a lot about on their order desk. Okay. Take that for what it's worth. Maybe there's other desks that have the same story. Maybe there's not. But the thing is that there doesn't need to be stuff like this

at the end of the day. Because open source development really only works if there's not one big checkbook that's deciding which open source work gets the most funding, right? Because if you don't get the funding and all the funding starts going somewhere else and those bips get the support of BlackRock and fidelity, what is the likelihood that's underfunded and underdiscust and underreported and buried in the algorithm or buried in the developer letter? Like what is the likelihood that stuff gets through or gets publicity?

or gets properly debated, it's very low. There's one other thing I'll just point out here that this comes at a time, I think, when it is fair to say that BIP 110 was the catalyst for this, not quantum. I think these guys realize that BIP 110 is a bad idea, and what they don't want is the continued degradation of network consensus

and these, you know, one split after another after another because somebody wants to, you know, get ahead of some problem they view as an issue, whether it's CSAM or quantum, you sort of pick your issue. You can't keep splitting the group because at some point, it doesn't matter what the heaviest chain is, the longest chain. What matters is that none of them have the real standing power that we have right now on the BTC chain, right? We don't want to go this direction long term. Sailor, you know, sort of spearheading this, it looks like. I didn't see any spearhead type announcements from any other guys involved. Sailor's got bigger fish to fry, man,

than this. And I've heard people say that one of the reasons sailors so keen on, you know, making this big public announcement and starting to talk about BIP 110 is because things are going sideways over strategy. He diluted shareholders again today. He's saying he's going to do it again in the future. He's going to sell Bitcoin again in the future. And I think most people are saying, yeah, I don't like the way this is going over at MSTR. What better way to distract from that than to get people riled up about whether or not you should be policing funding for the devs and guiding them toward quantum security or quantum risk. And like you said, their general long-term sturdiness of the network security model.

It's a good move. You know, it's sort of Trumpian and the idea that it's flooding the zone a bit. But long-term, I don't think it's going to work anyway. But, Len, isn't the biggest tell that it's not going to work, that you have all these like trillion dollar companies and you only got $15 million together at the first pass. Isn't that that's a very good point? That's pathetic.

It's very low. That's like a bunch of your friends and only getting $25. So how much do they really think that these concerns are legit? You know, I get the feeling it's not that much. Even if they're putting quantum at the, you know, sort of tip of the spear here, let's say. They don't think it's that big a deal. The network's worth a trillion and a half or whatever it is. And now you got, you know, $15 million to put into security.

it against that perceived threat, you know, real or perceived threat, it doesn't, it doesn't add up. The math doesn't work there. Maybe they can give like a lifetime supply of cats for Luke to eat. Maybe, yeah. 15 million, they could go to Mandarin, you know, I think every day for the rest of you. I haven't been to Mandarin in so long. There's a guy online, Mollett reviews going, he's doing one Chinese buffet a day until he gets food poisoning.

And some of the stuff he's eating is absolutely crazy. Is you going to like the white man's Chinese or? Oh, worse. It's like, it's like stuff that has like one and two stars on Yelp. true bottom of the barrel type stuff. He went to one like two weeks ago. There was another one that he went to across the parking lot. Imagine what that setup must be like.

I might have to long like toilet paper because if he's going to keep doing this. To the paper futures. Yeah. There may be a run on it just like we had in 2020. There'll be a run on it all right, but it's going to happen. It's washer. Those runs. Yeah, whatever.

Anyways, let's just, you know, these guys fuck them. Let's continue to look at the grassroots support. We got here to the dance with just us doing a little, you know. Let's talk about, let's talk about Mallor's next. Speaking of grassroots. Well, we're going to do like a collective yo. I think it's, you know. Yo.

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I, I've been critical to Jack. He stepped down as the CEO of 21 Capital, citing differences with his vision compared to that of the board. That's, by the way, Corpo speak for the board, cut him loose. Before I, before I start criticizing this whole thing, I want to say that 20, 2020, 2021 era Mallors was like top tier, S-tier Bitcoiner, always pushing for the right stuff,

even if he didn't deliver on exactly what he said he was going to, always affiliating himself with the right crowd. And I really think he was like, you know, turbopleb more than anything else for that time. And people can say, ah, his father was a banker, his mother, blah, blah, blah. I don't care about that. I don't think you can judge, you know, you can't tag on the sins of the father to the son before he proves to you who he is. And I think he's not proven himself to be a bad actor, maybe just a little bit too easy to co-opt.

You know, the chicken was too tasty for him, as the saying goes, for a little while there. But he's now backed out. Now, 21, you know, he's, I will criticize the fact that he was on TV a bunch of times over the last two years or a year and a half, whatever, however long that tenure was, saying that he was going to ride the stock to zero, dare you to short us, dare you to go against us. We're going to be the best company. We're not just a Bitcoin Treasury company. We're blah, blah, blah. all these other things. You know, if you took that advice,

you rode that stock down 50%, I think, over the last year and probably greater than that since inception. XXI? Yeah, I think so. So, you know, you've not had a good time. They are still acquiring Bitcoin, but they're not acquiring it in the way that like strategy or tether. Don't me interrupt.

A year ago was just hovering around $30, like a hair under it. Yeah. 29 and change. Now it's sitting at 453. So you got absolutely nuked. Yeah, you got absolutely nuked. 83% down in a year. There you go.

So I was being too generous. So you have that problem with the stock that, you know, he gave a quote-unquote advice. It's obviously not advice. But if you're on TV, you know, you have this army of plebs. Like quite literally in some cases, foaming at the mouth to everything this young guy was saying. And I love the enthusiasm, but it wasn't ever going to be delivered on. I've heard people say, you know, we talked about it on BitCast. We talked about it here.

I've heard people say that he's finding, he's like rediscovering his sort of pure Bitcoin roots. And the reason he left is because he didn't like some of the companies that they were working with and didn't like the way some of the direction of the stuff was going. Well, maybe that's true. But it was an awful long time for him to kind of hang around since they brought Lutnik on, since they brought Tether into the picture. And there's also this theory that Tether was going to buy 21, which and Strike, I think, It was all going to be one big merger, which would have been great for everybody involved.

But now that's basically off the table. And so strike is back in this sort of, you know, purgatory. They're not quite big enough to go public and not quite big enough to stay private or whatever. So, you know, where do you come down? I don't know. We have Friendsland who are sitting on 21, not 21, sorry. strike equity and are waiting and are waiting for an exit. And so far it just hasn't come. Right. Now, yeah, I will, yeah, yeah. So I will say if I had to guess, they'll go public next year.

Yeah. Yeah. Once things, once things pick up in the capital markets, once the uncertainty around the war is done and maybe you start to see a couple more IPOs, you're going to have Anthropic and Open AI both go public next year if I had to guess. I think they were planning for this year, but I've since pushed it back. So, you know, maybe. get your exit then. The sort of overarching theme here, though, for Mallors, is you got to go back to what you were like a couple of years ago. You have to. We need you in the space. If you're going to be as prominent as you have been, you can't be spending your time fighting with Michael Saylor at conferences. You can't be spending your time taking shots at other Treasury companies on TV.

You know, you're too good an ambassador, even if I disagree with the communication style sometimes. You're too good an ambassador for Bitcoin to be caught up in this like, you know, swamp type, you know, corporo speak, MSNBC appearances, CNBC appearances, whatever. You got to be better than that. You got to be above it. You should start thinking that way. And I think he's going to, honestly, I hope that he takes some time off for his wedding and all that stuff and, you know, see if he can get his head right.

And yeah, I look forward to welcoming him back. I think he's going to deliver on all these things, honestly. Whoa. That's a shocker consider. I think he will. So going back. I think he's got the fire back. He's like he has that fire in his belly, you know.

It's one of the reasons people are drawn to him in the first place. And I think he just, he just got a little carried away for a few years. But I think he's doing the videos from the closet again. I know. I know. He's coming out of the closet, so to speak, once again in a Bitcoin world. Like this might be, you know, a new beginning for him. I want to see it.

We got to see if he wears the ankle boots again. I never, Jack. know, I've been critical of you. I know we went back and forth on Twitter a couple times, but the ankle boots are not the problem. It's in here, man. You got it. I know you got it.

And I want to see it back on a, you know, on the big stage. So soon. 2022, we got to just reminisce. We had the Bitcoin and Inc. Only conference and he attended there as the keynote speaker. You talked about. Buckeley. Yeah.

No, Buckeli was, uh, was he 21. Yeah. So Buckelly 2020. 2022 was Jack Mahler's. 23 was RFK Jr. Oh, by the way, remember the tears from these Bitcoiners once he said that moving speed right by the way i i the fucking day after that i fucking called out the bullshit on this and still we are through

where the fuck is this thing nothing has transpired from this all roads lead to lend back to jack muller's 22 and that moving speech he gave about using bitcoin as a medium exchange at a bodega he bought the pop right was that the uh i think that was the yeah we got to buy coke at like stuff like McDonald's, right? And he was saying he's going to allow those companies, those huge companies that just sell so much bullshit like McDonald's, Walgreen, Starbucks, Walmart, shit like that, Shopify.

And four years later. Yeah. Underwhelming. I don't see anything. I would like to see it. But I see like, it was staking shake. And I forget the name of that company.

Yeah, steak and they're taking, they're doing it independently, right? Yeah. Like that's the way things, I guess, should be. done. Not in the last, whatever,

good for him. He's now going to deal with strike in the penalty. Maybe he was spread too thin. I guess we'll see if he's going to now be laser focused on strike and enable to actually deliver on some of the promises that he has said. And maybe some of the promises he's going to be coming up in the next of a while to drum up support. Anyways,

XXI, it was, or was it, I don't know, a treasury company, Bitcoin treasury company, because the signal was, They still hold 43,000.

But they said they're going to, you know. They tried to make that kid the frontman for this, even though they have, you know, Paulo, Lutnik. And it just didn't just didn't work out. Just didn't work out. I don't think he, because I don't think he believed in what they were doing. I mean, I know he didn't. That's why the board caught him loose, right?

But one of the thing I said last week on Ben's show, and I'll say here, do you not think it's weird that no one has tapped Jack Mallors for another role in the Bitcoin space. While he was doing CEO of XXI. Yeah, but so what? Like that's the only thing he's ever been asked.

What are you going to do? Like what's at that level? Like, you're not going to come and do this. No, I'm busy doing. No committees. No, you know,

consortium. Now you'll see if there's going to be something else that's going to be offered. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. But they said now XXI is going to transition, right?

The old Bitcoin Treasury dream has gone. A new Bitcoin treasury dream now lives because they're going to be focusing on buying up capital allocation, cash flowing, generating businesses. Yeah.

And they're going to use that. Yeah, good for that. Whatever. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, listen, the end of the day, it doesn't mean anything to you and me.

Well, they say they also want to build Bitcoin-backed yield credit and financial products. Right? Like, what do we need? More fucking lending, more opportunities to get wrecked.

We just heard today, I just heard or read in the chat today that we share, somebody went on margin to buy MSTR 350 and they got margin called and had to sell some of the ratchez. Yeah. Yeah.

So I've been saying this, the best way to buy Bitcoin is to use whatever you have at the end of the day extra. You know, don't fucking sell. There's no need. What you have to pay for bills today. Pay your bills.

Then if you have a few bucks, then you buy Bitcoin. That's the one. is the worst thing that happens, if Bitcoin goes down, you still have the Bitcoin. It's not like you mortgaged what you should be spending your money on bills. It's just with your play money. But you know what?

If Bitcoin goes down, you're relying on it to go up. You're forced then to sell some assets you don't want to sell. But whatever, these guys, they don't want it to XXI. They say they're not going to rely on doing dilution of the company to fund operations. So they say they just want to get these cash flow operations under the belt. They want to keep buy them and use that to help build a, oh, this Bitcoin native lending platform, this credit platform. Just the fuck we need right now, right?

Just what we, between this and the consortium, just two beauty stories, you know. Just it never ends. Like there's always someone who thinks they have a, you know, the new version of the mousetrap, right? Oh, but we got another one, orange juice. This one's, I love this story. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm not talking about the drink. I do love orange juice, by the way, without pulp. I'll still drink with pulp, by the way, if I had to. But I would not like Tony, like Tony Soprano, like the one that says some pulp. You know, I never watched. His wife goes and cordless phone at him. Because he does like the pulp and the orange juice. I'm not a big pulp, but again, I'll drink it if need be.

But this orange juice, I'm not going to take a sip at all, right? This company. This is a company that's been co-founded by Lynn Alden, who I hear swings a, a mean stick, by the way. And Alden says the idea to erect a company, this is a brand new company, and the quote, whole strategy to build diversified, uncorrelated, AI, resistant cash flow from buying Bitcoin with those earnings that they retain from the Treasury. So they're going to buy up companies out there, and they're going to be cash flow companies, cash flow positive companies, and they use the cash flow that degenerate from these companies to buy Bitcoin.

I don't know about you, but this doesn't even give me close to a semi, not even fucking close. And other company co-founders out there are like Jeff Booth and Andy Pitt, Nico, Thatchuga. I never heard of that thing. They got some good, good capital people, good VC people. Full of X wires. Full of X wires, right? Interesting to see here. And the company isn't starting empty handed.

No, they have more than just their dicks in their hand. They are starting with $40 million in initial funding. So the question is the fuck is they want to just do. As I said, the idea is they want to extract enough juice from this thing. We're talking cash flow from the traditional businesses. And more pumping of Viet businesses that have Bitcoin tie. This is the result. The goal of the company, they want to get these profitable businesses under the belt.

They want to buy them, hold them permanently, I guess until they're no longer profitable, they'll sell them, just like a permanent Woody. That's what they want to have. This is a trick I do want to see. And the companies that they want to maintain independent operations, but they will still get the rub from the rest of the orange team, right? Because they're going to be out there to hopefully bring them to new heights. And hopefully this is going to help them guide them into integrating AI technologies

to improve long-term margins. They want to use those to help build up these businesses. Because everybody knows without proper guidance, you might as well end up in the wrong fucking hole, right? And if that happens, you'll be digging. out a fucking mess. But I don't know, given the crop of people involved, it just looks like to me, we got one hole and one cup in every fucking hole in every course here and every whole. So for me, it's like we don't have, there's no shared greens here, Joey. There's no shared greens,

right? So the Bitcoin doesn't give a shit about this. And if you're a Bitcoiner, I don't think you really give a shit about this either, right? But one thing that you got to give credit, to Lynn does have a lot of knowledge. And Lynn comes with a lot of credibility. is very learned. You don't want to go into... So is Jeff. Jeff's the same way. Jeff,

but Lynn, like, you don't, you don't want it to, to go into an argument against Lynn, because if you're going to fucking start swinging swords, you're going to fucking, you're going to go down.

Just be careful if you do that. But with this venture, they want to be like a kind of a different version of Berkshire Hathaway, right? But at least that model for Bitcoin. Okay. Interesting. They aren't going to be issuing shares,

or debt to buy Bitcoin. They want to use the cash that's generated from these businesses to stack Bitcoin. Whatever. I wish them luck. Yeah, I have a couple of things to say about this. I don't love the idea, honestly.

And maybe I'm just missing something, but I haven't heard anyone really give me a good explanation as to why I'm wrong. I see in the chat, Greg is saying that Lynn just had a conversation with Walker, which I haven't listened to yet. It's actually in my queue about Orange Shoes. So I'm going to listen to it and see what the conclusions they came to.

But my initial thoughts, a couple of things. One, the big pitch from Orange Shoes and Lynn and the team is that they're not going to take outside capital or the business acquisition. They're not going to ask for money. They're going to do one raise and then they're going to try and buy up a few cash flowed businesses. The problem is that $40 million, you maybe get what? I know they say they're going to try and buy businesses that are one and two million dollars in value, but there's an issue there too. So let's say, you know, they have to buy businesses that are like between

$5 and $10 million in value. That's a problem off the hop. The second problem is, I think, more significant. And it's that small and medium businesses don't make a ton of money. And so the thesis for guys like Sailor or other companies, you know, in the hypothetical is that they have this big treasury that's a melting ice cube like Sailor used to say and like a bunch of us say. And you don't want to do anything with that treasury that's going to put your capital in a huge risk position or lock it out or whatever. And so buying Bitcoin with some of it or all of it makes sense when you have that much extra capital.

But SMEs don't have that much extra capital. They're saving money for legal issues or HR issues or capital reinvestment or. any of these things. Now, there's a case to be made, I suppose, that these businesses aren't trying to grow anyway. They're just basically cash cows, right? They're lifestyle businesses as the terminology goes. So people are generally older. They're sort of gliding, they're coasting in a lot of ways. And the businesses are just something that funds their way of life. And they're not trying to grow anything. They're not hiring new people. They're not doing that stuff. What they might be looking to do is hand the business off to somebody like their kid or their nephew or whatever.

And they're having trouble doing that because the kid, you know, maybe doesn't want the business or whatever has other ideas or moved away. Like, you know, these things are not as simple as they were 20 or 30 years ago. So this is where you might see Orange Shoes step in and buy a profitable business and then use that money for Bitcoin. The other problem I have, though, is that it is very easy for Harvard grads and engineers and, you know, Bitcoin investment groups to buy a bakery or a plumbing business or an electrician's business or a painting business. It is nothing entirely for them to operate it. And, you know, if you look at some of the numbers around this, there's some data, but it's not great data that says basically if you sell your

business to VC or PE, you got about a 25% chance that business is going to go under in the first three years. Yeah, once the main operator, the founder leaves, two things happen, right? One, the institutional knowledge degrades to zero, basically. And two, the reputation that was tied to the business also degrades fairly quickly. It doesn't take much, you know, if CBP launches next week with two new hosts, the CVP brand name is going to be enough to keep some people around for a few weeks, but it ain't going to be enough to keep everyone around.

There's got to be a new buildup of trust, build up a reputation, you know, build up of banter, all that stuff. And I just wonder, like, about the AI thing. The reason the businesses that are making money are profitable still is because they don't rely on, you know, AI necessarily to get work done. These people are showing up to houses, their hands-on, you know, welding, shops plumbing. I'm using examples that are easy for me to pin down. But generally, if you're talking about businesses that are older, that have a bit of, you know, a bit of history and a bit of,

you know, community roots, let's say, this is what you're looking at. There's some AI gains to be made. Sure, you want to do landing page, new SEO, new whatever, like, fine, get it, totally. The question is, is that, like, how much of a value add is that to the business? I'm going to just talk about Greg's comment in the chat. I'll read it for people who are on audio or on Twitter. Greg says she explains she won't be buying all with cash offering equity, just cash flow positive companies that can benefit a bit from AI. They want their owners to stay on. If the owners stay on, then like why wouldn't they like, again, like I have a hard time imagining someone would stay on and sell the company to somebody and become an employee or like partial equity

holder so that they can get an AI upgrade. There could be, right, the way it's written, the agreement for the purchasing of the company could be written in such a way that you will get payment depending on if you stay on. And so you get like certain payment if you leave now. That's fine. But if you get more payments. Yeah.

But if the sales, then Lynn should know this. If the sales pitch is we're going to make your company better with AI, it's not enough. There's high school kids in every major city. America going to these companies and saying, hey, I'll help you with your website for a thousand bucks. These guys, they have a lot of business expertise. The operators, the operators. They'll be able to give them a rub somehow.

The people that are buying into this, they have connections. They're able to streamline shit. They're able to do stuff that these guys that are working, maybe they're just doing more, like I don't know how these businesses operate. Maybe they define efficiencies in the business that the owners can't or the operators can't find it right now. Man, I think that's, I think that's really hard to do.

I don't know. I wish them luck. Again, like this is all more Fiat stuff. Why would any, why would I want to get more Fiat exposure? Clearly I don't. If somebody out there does want to bless you, I hope you don't get wrecked in the process.

This is something I'm going to not just stay away from. I'm going to run away from as much as possible. But if you want to invest in it and you hopefully make some money, I hope you do. Yeah. I don't want to see people get. get wrecked, but I would not be. I don't either. I wouldn't be lining up for this. I don't want to see people get wrecked and I don't want to see people get stuck. There are two different

things. You know, you don't want to be stuck where you don't have access to your capital. There could be capital controls that are put in place that is going to prevent you from doing anything with your business, with the money you have in the markets. It could happen one day. And would you want to be in such a situation where you are unable to take it out and use it way you want to. I wouldn't. I know with Bitcoin I don't have that problem. I could do whatever Christmas morning. If I want to send all my Bitcoin to you, Joey, I could. And it will end up on whatever address you send me. And it's on next block as long as I have provided enough incentive for the miners to include it in next block. So that's a great system. Yeah. Fuck yet.

Bitmex. Fuck them too, right? Bitmex. Crazy wind down. They're going to bite the dust. And as of September 23 this year. That's 11 years in business, man. That's a long time to be in this game, but they are closing shop. And this is the result of what they say, a strategic business review. I love these words. And they are telling users to close all positions and withdraw their funds. And if you do want to stick around, no new positions are going to be done after August 26. and after that, they're going to start closing up remaining open positions as they get closer to the September 23 deadline.

And so this is a custodial exchange. And I mentioned at the beginning of every show, why it is you want to deal with a no custodial exchange or not custodial exchange like bold Bitcoin. Because if you do, you always have your Bitcoin. In this case, well, you might have some of it on there. And just in case, you didn't read the emails or you didn't get the messages through Twitter or from wherever

and you still leave it on there, right? On Bitmex. So if you're a verified user and you just didn't fucking do anything with your Bitcoin, well, they're going to be closing your accounts and you're going to be charged in administrative fee of $50 or 1% annually on your remaining balance, whichever is higher, and this money will be collected monthly.

Close up shop. Close up shop. Hayes was in trouble with the U.S. government a while ago, too. It's interesting. Yeah. Closing the close. Regulatory problems, right? These are the guys that started the 100X leverage.

Perpetual slots were the brainchild of Bitmex, right? Ben told this story a little while ago to give you an idea of like what's going on at Bitmex. I guess like, you know, seven or eight years ago, maybe a little longer at this point. He was just starting to do interviews on the BTC sessions channel. And he was in Hong Kong and he just messaged Arthur Hayes and was like, hey, I love to talk to you for the channel. And Arthur's like, yeah, no problem. I'm sure here's the address for the office. And so Ben goes to this corporate looking building in Hong Kong and goes up the elevator to

the floor that the office is located on and walks in. He's like, yeah, it's nice, really nice. Arthur welcomes him in and they start talking. And it's just, you know, Arthur in this room with a laptop and a cell phone. And Ben goes, so this is like, you guys have this whole floor then. And Arthur's like, there's no whole floor. It's this computer. The whole Bitmex operation is running on this machine.

And like, obviously it's expanded a little bit. since then. But if you ever wonder, like, how easy it is to build something or how easy it was to build something, if you just had a little bit of gusto. Like, that was it. Did he run afoul? Yes, but still. Do you remember

many moons ago when we first started, we did an interview? I'm not going to see the company, but we did an interview in Toronto. With Bitby. With Bitby. It's on the channel. I mean, whatever. But there was something that was said off yeah, I remember.

off the air that I can't now say if you can't send to people's name. But yeah, something like that. Okay. So they have the Bitmex token B-M-E-X. It went down 97%. They can still go down another 97%. Don't worry. How is it not zero?

I don't understand. It's got long-term support. Long-term support lines. So remember that, so Arthur Hayes and all those other. guys, they pleaded guilty back in 2022. They weren't doing the... It was a deal. It was a deal they got, right? Like, I know.

And they got presidential pardons, too, after I know. I know. I know. Yeah. This is a level we're not even involved in this. No. Like, these guys, they have access to capital, access to political people. We don't even have,

we can't even dream of figuring this shit out. And it's all run on a single computer in some office. in Hong Kong. Imagine that. Jesus Christ. If somebody just pulled a plug on that, it would have been. All right. This is more of an axis of easy story, but still,

it's a good story that's discussed here because these duress pins, you get them also on like cold cards and shit like that. So there was a U.S. a U.S. citizen named Samuel Tunic. And Samuel, he is now getting railed by

the United States and because he's facing charges that he used a privacy duress pin to wipe his phone. So I believe it was a Graphene OS phone he had. That's the story. And so when he was coming back to the United States from his overseas trip, the Customs and Border Protection, CVP, the different CVP, which doesn't seem to help a lot of people out,

or at least people don't like them as much as they like us. While the agents, they directed him the secondary. And so when he went there, they asked for his phone. and they asked for the pass code to get into his phone and he provided a passcode. It was not the one that he used to use his phone. It was a dress pin and when entering that, the phone wiped itself. And so he is now being accused of violating a statute that makes it illegal to destroy or damage property to prevent its seizure by the government of the United States. people who research this

believes that this is the first time this type of case we brought forth to justice. Yeah. The duress pin specifically. He's trying to use the case that the phone seizure was unjust and unlawful

as well as his detention. So keep this in mind if you are traveling abroad and you have a device that has a duress pin like a cold card or a graph or a USB phone or whatever may be. And if you're going to provide that,

at duress pin, you might end up in this situation like this guy. Yeah. May not, but it's possible. This could be groundbreaking. Just buy a second phone. The duress pin, the duress pin cannot wipe the device. Like that can't happen if you're going to use it. It has to go to like a secondary profile or whatever.

But the answer here really is buy a second phone. If you're traveling with any, you know, you don't even have to have anything illegal on your phone. As you know, if you have like a Bitcoin wallet. address or you have like some signal chats you'd rather people not see or whatever like if if at the border that day there's questions that need to be answered and they're just looking for someone to start a fight with then you don't want to you don't want to be the target and so it's just easier and it's actually like it's incumbent on you because you you don't really have much in the way of recourse at the border or any of these other places you might you know cross international lines airports

train stations whatever it's just best to have a second device buy a old pixel, buy an old iPhone, buy a whatever, and pay when you need it to buy an e-sim and use it overseas. That's all. Easy is that. Don't make it too complicated. The rest pins are fun, but they're not practical. And I think people need to realize that after today. Well, it wasn't known until this came up that it could be a legal issue.

How could it not be known? If the government says we're taking your phone because we don't, we want to be one. want to see what's on it and they ask for a pin and you give him the pin that wipes the phone. What did you think what did you think was going to happen to you after that? Would you have known because nobody has said this? I mean, this is the first we're hearing of it. Maybe I might know if I was planning on doing it, you know?

Like I don't know a lot of laws, but if I was planning on maybe running a foul of one, I might think to look into it. Hey, Claude, what's going on if I use my duress pin at the border? You know? And I would love to me to run down. making all mistakes. I would love to know the answer it would have provided because it's just trolling everything that's been done up until that point.

So if you ask this question two weeks ago, it might say, well, there's no, there's no examples of somebody being detained or putting up, being brought up into the court system for doing this. Right? So like all it's doing is just trolling what's out there. And there was nothing else. Now it's if you ask the question now, it's different. Because now it has this information in which it could have.

absorb. But before this information existed, what would have been the answer? I would love to know. And that's the thing. With all these legal experts, never heard a thing about it. Now, everybody is suddenly a legal expert. But you know what? I never heard shit until now. Yeah, I don't know. I'll tell you right now, I'm going to buy a minimal phone

too when they come out and just keep it in my whatever desk. And if I need it, I'll use it. Like, you get, there's just so many ways to get around this that aren't going to, like, cause you a headache at the border. Anyone who's ever been over the border knows that common sense is out the window, okay? You can't bring a case of beer over the border without a receipt, all right? It's not like it's a mystery.

And I always recommend to people, like if you're traveling for any significant amount of time, especially, bring a second device. Even if you're not traveling for any significant amount of time, back up your phone to the cloud, wipe it, take it across the border, order, restore it. If it's that important to you, don't leave all the shit on your phone. You're asking for trouble that way. Yeah, the cloud is equally as safe, in my opinion. Clearly, it's not. The best place to store your stuff is your own devices. Other than that, anywhere else, you're just, you know, you're asking for problems. Pull in. Yeah. The third bankruptcy.

and one of the largest Bitcoin mining pools out there they are closing shop they filed for Chapter 11 on July 22nd of this year and they plan to sell assets and wind shit down and they have assets around between 1 and 10 million depending on how much they can sell what they have

and the liabilities are as high as 500 million It's a lot How does a pool get into this? leverage on equipment maybe or something? I have no idea. No, they were doing some yield and capital loan shit. And they were in the process. Either way, because this is a company that's based in China.

And China, they banned Bitcoin. One of the many times was in 2021 and several times since then and several times leading up to that. So I think that it's going to impact any Chinese business that really does stuff with Bitcoin. Still, it makes me wonder, how does Bitmain get around all this? know they ban Bitcoin mining and stuff, but like, you know what I mean? Like, Bitmin for whatever reason seems to be flying under the radar in China. I wonder why. I don't know.

I mean, you could, you could probably guess, you know, wouldn't be that. Yes. So these guys, they were not able to keep your head above water and they are gone. One more mining pool is now gone. So, yeah. Too bad. So sad. Don't care.

Next story. I think that's it, man. I think that's it. What are we at? Oh, 56 minutes. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we've done a lot. And there's a few stories that we have to talk about in the back.

And I don't want to leave anything on a cutting room floor. Okay. If you're with us on audio, stay with us. If you're with us on video, Twitter, whatever. There's like 100 people here. I don't know why you're on Twitter. The YouTube chat is more fun, number one. Number two, I would appreciate if you like the video and subscribe to the channel.

And number three, Len and I both combed our hair. So it'd be nice to see you guys. No, I took a shower, brother. On whatever, you know, we're trying. and groom. Anyway, stay with us on the back half. We'll see you in a second. Take care.