The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The Quantum Threat, BTC Treasury Companies Sell, Node Wars | CBP 259 Pt 1

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome back, everybody, to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. Lem, we're doing this in the middle of the day today, Eastern Monday, because we don't want to compete with NASA tonight going to... They're going to the moon? The other side of the moon, what are they doing? Remind me. Yeah, that's around 650 Eastern. It's expected they're going to be entering the far side of the moon and lose communication with ground. So that's going to be amazing.

Starting point is 00:00:25 I don't know about you, but I'm excited to watch this. I might have to watch it. It's not really my thing. but I mean, once you told me about it, I looked it up. It looks pretty wild. So like we're actually worried about going up against a world event where there's not going to be anything to broadcast. This is a new angle for competitive media. We're going up against a black screen.

Starting point is 00:00:46 We still can't win. This isn't, uh, it's an uncalled for. Apollo missions, the first time they went to the moon, it was when they went around it. And the second time they didn't land. they put the jettison the lm but they didn't land so there was two like trial runs before it actually landed for the paul 11 so this is like you know it's not like uncharted waters i'm not sure if you watched the launch on friday i saw some highlights yeah i saw some highlights i had to watch that i don't know i i i had goosebumps i was just it's proud to watch that as a human being to see this take place

Starting point is 00:01:21 it was just amazing first time after all so uh in my lifetime yeah the last time they've been to the moon was 72 and I was born in, you know, allegedly, allegedly. Okay, so we're going to skip the intro here. We're going to do the sponsors quickly and try and keep this compact because it is the middle of the day after all. Sponsors are easy DNS. Best place for you do anything related to domain registration, domain registrars. Mark also just launched a Claude option for you. So if you want to run Claude on a virtual private server to deal with or toggle some of your, some of your settings with Easy DNS, you can do that. Excellent stuff. And then obviously, of course, for a couple extra bucks. Easy mail, domain share, corporate level security for a reasonable price.

Starting point is 00:02:01 If you haven't done it already, go to visit Mark at easydns.com. Use our promo code CBP media. You get 50% off your first cart. Your first round of buys. Load up. Buy now. Don't wait. Who's the other sponsor? Bull Bitcoin, right? There's a lot of people buying because we're over 70,000. We haven't been here for quite some time. When you want to buy, both Bitcoin is going to be there to make sure you get your Bitcoin because they are a non-custodial exchange. You cannot do a buy without providing a Bitcoin address. This is what you want. You don't want anybody holding onto your Bitcoin because eventually you get rugged over a long

Starting point is 00:02:36 enough period of time. They'll also give you the option to sell if you want. So if you want to exchange your Bitcoin for Fiat, hey, they're there. They'll make it happen. You want to pay bills? Another way to start exchanging your Bitcoin for Fiat. They're there to help facilitate. So you get to pay a car bill, an electrical bill, whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:02:52 You can do that. You got limit orders. So many different options out there that if you want in exchange to do, they give you the options over there. Best in the game available in Canada, Western Europe, Latin America, keep expanding. Let's see what they go to the United States. I'm not going to hold my breath.

Starting point is 00:03:08 Check them out, though. Use our link below if you haven't yet signed up. If you do use our link and do sign up, while all your buys and sales forever are going to be a little bit cheaper. So you might as well do it. Totally. Love that. You want to do some boost?

Starting point is 00:03:20 Then we'll do a little housekeeping. and off the race as we go. Three boosts. We got Pius 121 sats and he says, thank you gentlemen. Mo, BTC, Dick, 500 Sats, says, Hope you had a good Easter lads.

Starting point is 00:03:35 Very good. Business cat, 49, 49, sats. This is a good one. He says, I should become a Canadian just for the laughs. Listen,

Starting point is 00:03:48 unless you come over and claim asylum, we actually won't take you. We don't want to. any productive Americans coming over here. We only want unproductive third world villagers. So think about a way to make that happen there. Luke, we'll get you in here. You can even crash in my place, you and the fan crash in my place for a while while you get your feet wet over here in the Great White North. He's not that far from us, right? I think he's only, he's in where. PA? I think he's in Pennsylvania, yeah. So, yeah, so six hour drive. Yeah, it's not bad.

Starting point is 00:04:17 Yeah. I only know Grove City, really. I know Grove City's four hours. So if it's past Grove City. I don't know. We'll see, I guess. That's right. I remember you went there like 10 years ago. Oh, God, I've been there a few times. It's great shopping. I haven't been since I've turned like 26 maybe, but it's worth it if you want to load up on some stuff. That was like 10 years ago. Yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Actually, it was like 12 years ago. My memory is, you know, I'm getting older, but you know, I'd just keep piling more shit on the memory. I tend to never forget. Hell yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So the housekeeping. I did a show last week on Easter, the Thursday before

Starting point is 00:04:49 Easter with Payman Ascari and J.P. John Paul Berg from the philosopher of the Stoic and the Teddy Bear podcast. Canadian. I want to call them dissidents, but I think the words kind of cheap these days. These guys are great thinkers, man. They've done a lot of good work in the realm of pointing to inconsistencies and problems, culturally, politically, economically with Canada. And we had a really good discussion about some of the things that are happening in Canada now, what to expect next. And then obviously a little bit about Bitcoin. And these guys land, you know, sort of without any prompting from me, they've identified the key problem

Starting point is 00:05:22 with the current state of affairs in Canada. What do you think it is? Allowing too many individuals in, so it's even better. It's even better. It's even better. I don't know. You go ahead. They think it's some money. And

Starting point is 00:05:39 they are correct in that assessment, I believe. Broken money is the core of a lot of the problems we're seeing in Canada and everywhere else. So, wicked. Glad to see that. You guys will enjoy that show. So once our guy, Andreas, is done with the editing, we'll put that up, hopefully this week sometime. We got a guy. We got a guy. We got a guy.

Starting point is 00:05:56 We're bigger than I thought. Until I learn, we got a guy. That's how it's going to be. This is good. I can walk around with my dick enlarged and look at me, guys. We got a guy. All right. Joey, do you want to talk about quantum?

Starting point is 00:06:12 Yeah, we have no choice. We have no choice. This is stuff. I think that's near and dear to your heart. You've been talking about this quite a bit. I think this is the topic that I think that gets the most place from you. It gets the most signal from you. And it is this published paper by Google's Quantum AI Division called Safeguarding Cryptocurrency

Starting point is 00:06:34 by disclosing quantum vulnerabilities responsibly. And this paper was published on March 31. So just a few days ago. And it's estimated, as per this paper, far less cubits. are needed to crack certain Bitcoin addresses, and it's some 20 times less cubits than originally thought, which means if you buy into this, then quantum is going to be an issue that needs to be addressed sooner

Starting point is 00:07:02 rather than later than we originally anticipated. And the paper says that a private key can be derived from a public key in about nine minutes. So that's a very short period of time. And it's estimated that almost 7 million Bitcoin could be at risk. And the most notable of which is the Satoshi stash that hasn't moved in a long time. And once it does move, you know, something is up. And you'd have to do something to secure your almost 0.1 Bitcoin because you're a small player in a grand scheme of things.

Starting point is 00:07:37 But eventually they'll get to us soon to be retired people with 0.1 Bitcoin. The paper itself was the research by one. or partly done by one Justin Drake of the Ethereum Foundation. Interesting. And Buddy has been sounding the drums for a while because the paper states that by percentage, Ethereum is more at risk to quantum than Bitcoin. So take all this stuff with a crane of salt. I know we have Bit360 out there that is trying to make it more difficult by hiding public keys.

Starting point is 00:08:12 And that's going to make it more resistant to a quantum attack. The questions are, are you at risk? Like I said, once you see this Atoshi coins move, it's time to react. Maybe it's too late at that point. I don't know, but we're probably still some time away, probably if ever, from seeing this. I'm still on the underside of the fence that this is maybe not something that's going to be impacting Bitcoin for a long time, if ever. Yeah, I think you're wrong. I think it's obvious, too, that this is going to happen at some point in the next 10 years.

Starting point is 00:08:43 You know, you're seeing this theme. And it's not just in quantum, okay? But there has been this theme of this is going to happen sooner than we thought, no matter what the silo, no matter what the domain is, whether it's like physical health, military stuff, war stuff, debt stuff, monetary stuff, fiscal stuff, or quantum stuff. And I think that even if, you know, I think we, I was going to say I thought we agreed this was going to be a threat at some point. Maybe we don't. But I think that the problem is that, you know, we are part of this network and part of this. ecosystem where one of the real benefits and value props is that it's hard to make changes that are done on a whim politically or done on a whim with any real expedience for popularity's sake

Starting point is 00:09:27 or because one influencer gets on the right podcast or whatever. It's very difficult to do this stuff. That's going to wind up being a negative here if it isn't already because it just takes so long to get changes through. And I hear I hear stories about how Bitcoin developing are thinking about this stuff already. They're already making changes and moves. The Bitcoin mailing list is free to anybody. And it's actually Nick Carter, Rising Star, who, you know, has been saying, just look at the mailing list if you don't believe me.

Starting point is 00:09:58 So I did. I took a look. I've been subscribed to mailing list for a long time. I just never look at the emails. Not only is there basically nothing about quantum in their land, but anytime it comes up, it gets poo-poed. And I just, I'm like thinking to myself, okay, I don't love that. And I think the other question that has to be answered,

Starting point is 00:10:15 we do think that this is a threat and it's not, you know, if the real thesis is that it's not an immediate one, it's a not yet thing. The question I have for the developers and for people who are on the influencer side, you know, podcasters, Twitter heads, whatever, my question is what is the more, you know, important priority right now for our bandwidth than this? Because I don't see one. And maybe it's just because I don't, I'm not paying enough attention or whatever. But, you know, I see that we have a lot of people dedicating a lot of time to things in Bitcoin. I'll speak specifically here about the, you know, the spam, right? The spam is interesting as a as a fulcrum for discussion because what it allows is both technical and social layer type people to have an opinion that gains traction.

Starting point is 00:11:04 And you don't have to have a really deep understanding of Bitcoin or the network to say, I don't want JPEGs on the network, okay? you don't have a really deep understanding of the network to say, I just want to run knots and be able to do my own thing, right? You can have a technical understanding. Like, I think you have a technical understanding of the way those things work, but some people do not. And I think there's a lot of people in Bitcoin who have found themselves with a nice bit of fame and notoriety

Starting point is 00:11:29 based on stuff like spam on the blockchain and whether or not the Mempool is clogged by JPEGs and C-Sam in transactions. that won't have a place in the discussion or debate about quantum. Because it's not really a social layer attack. It's a real technical, highly technical attack. And I'll give you an example of how you know it's highly technical. There's a nine minute, 10 minute clip that somebody put in my comments yesterday with Preston Pish and Jeff Booth, both who have been on this show, talking about quantum and whether it's a threat.

Starting point is 00:12:05 And honestly, it doesn't sound like either of them know anything about it. they're trying to say stuff for about 10 minutes, like I said, and none of it really, it doesn't, to me, make a lot of sense. And if, and if you just do like a brief sort of control F skim of the two papers, you mentioned the guys from the theorem foundation, okay, but like Stanford is on that paper too. So is Google. Those are leading institutions in the quantum space. There's not much overlap in terms of the technicals there. And the other thing that I think you have to consider from the paper, whether you think it's a threat or not in the medium term, the question really becomes, What does Stanford have to gain by telling you as a Bitcoin guy that you should start thinking about making changes to your security protocol now? What does Google have to gain by telling you should make changes to your security protocol now? The thing that you often hear as well, I'm rambling a bit, but I just want to get these points out. But there's a lot of commentary in Bitcoin, while the nuclear codes will be first or banks will be first or Wall Street will be first, you know, if I send a big transfer to somebody and that transfer, you know, looks suspicious or is past some threshold, the threshold that's going down all the time like we've discussed, you know, dozens of times over the years. It's not about whether or not you can break my encryption to get into my bank account. It's about whether or not you can answer the phone call when the bank calls.

Starting point is 00:13:29 It's about whether or not you have the 2FA, you know, set up properly to get the second piece of the equation. And then at the end of the day, if all that stuff goes well for you somehow, it's about whether or not the bank will reverse the transaction. Like, Bitcoin doesn't have that luxury. If Bitcoin starts to show weakness in the security model, and you mentioned there, the problem is that most of this stuff can be done inside of an average block, inside of the 10-minute block size when your key is exposed. there's no there's no repercussion for you in that regard i'll just i'll end on this and i'll ask you what you think about all the stuff i've said uh if you're still paying attention of course i am the satoshi the satoshi coins are a bounty i think for um for quantum i've said that before on this show and i'm not the only one to say that but i think it makes sense

Starting point is 00:14:15 to say that if you get quantum first uh the way to prove it is not to upend the global order and destroy nations and destroy financial systems, it's to move those coins. It's a recognized, it's a recognized security sort of pillar, shot 256 and lift the curve. Lytok curve security, it's name for that, that I'm not getting at the top of my head here. And it's sort of in the grand scheme, you know, as much as Bitcoiners say to admit it, it's basically zero impact on the global financial system to move those coins. So let's see what happens in the next few years. My suggestion to the developers would be stop poo-pooing this.

Starting point is 00:14:57 And my suggestion to Nick Carter would be stop going on shows like bankless to talk about it. Go on noted with Pierre Rochard and Bittstein, guys who know the tech and the social layer. Go on, I don't know. Go on Preston Pish's show if he ever is willing to come back and do a podcast about this. Go on BTC Sessions show, go on Ben's show, right? And talk to Ben about it. Ben knows both layers very well. very well too.

Starting point is 00:15:23 Stop wasting your time on shows where no one's going to be able to push back and no one has technical chops to tell you whether you're right or wrong. Even if I think you're more or less correct, you need to be in an arena where people are going to push back on you with technical expertise. And so far the places you've been just are not those places. I welcome him to come on any of those shows to talk about it. Nick Carter, I think in the last years I've pretty much shown

Starting point is 00:15:48 who he is or what he's about. I think he's a Fiat Greedy. Why do you say? Why do you? Okay, so tell me, because I,

Starting point is 00:15:57 I don't, he's pushing this narrative and there seems to be some investment in companies that are, so. He's invested in 11 labs. 11 labs is a quantum basically prepared this company, but I don't, I don't view this as an issue.

Starting point is 00:16:07 Like, you know, no one, when we go around talking about Bitcoin, okay, no one says, well, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:13 you don't say to yourself, I'm only doing this because I'm invest in it. Or when Sailor gets on TV and pumps Bitcoin. Like, like, who's, worse really in this whole equation if that's the bar, right? All these other people are worse, right?

Starting point is 00:16:25 Nick is extremely long Bitcoin and, you know, somewhat long this tech company. He has, Nick's been in Bitcoin longer than you and me. He has been, but it's involved in other projects that are not Bitcoin that just makes you believe that he's, you know, he looks at it, he understands the tech, but once you see it, you can't unsee it. And there's something there that I just don't totally trust. And I get this feeling, and I got this feeling with a number of different people. If you look at my block list, you could see exactly who it is.

Starting point is 00:16:57 And you know what? Over time, I'm proven to be correct. People expose themselves as being bad actors. So going back, is Bitcoin at risk here in the short term, probably not medium term? I don't know. We'll see. I still say not. And the, as you call it, the bounty from Satoshi.

Starting point is 00:17:16 If somebody is able to get it, say if I get access. to it. I just happened to guess the keys to get access to that corn. Am I not able to use it? Of course. Of course. What's the problem here? Like, it's essentially just

Starting point is 00:17:34 there's a stuff that hasn't been moved. If it hasn't been in action, it should be actioned, right? The guy maybe he's gone, maybe lost his keys. It's now, it's somebody else could pick it up. I can tell you, mine is going to be safe. My 0.1 Bitcoin's going to be safe for a number of reasons. Number one, it's

Starting point is 00:17:50 not enough to be under the radar of quantum. And number two, my keys are fucking private. So, you know, I'm safe. And that's all I could do is watch for myself. I don't want to rush in and make changes on a protocol that could potentially upend the whole financial system. I don't know what is going to be the unintended consequences by rushing in and doing something.

Starting point is 00:18:12 We've seen what happened. But if you don't do it now, by the time you know you have to do it, you will be rushing. That's the question. is you are on the side of the fence that it should be dealt with relatively soonish. Soon to medium term, I'll say. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but if you want to correct me, feel free to do so. I think this could be something we could talk about. We could look at all the merits of this.

Starting point is 00:18:39 And after enough time discussion, looking at a trial run, shit like that, then we could potentially put it into action. Yeah. I don't want to make any changes without. putting a lot of effort, a lot of time discussing it, looking at. I don't want any more fucking... Then why not start? Then why not start?

Starting point is 00:18:57 It's not like you can't test this stuff. We have. You can test it now. Like NIST in the States, like the standards people, they have quantum encryption. Like, why not start testing it now? The thing is that the mailing list tells the story. The high priests refused to fucking talk about it. And so my question is why?

Starting point is 00:19:14 Like even last week on BitCast, okay? We had it in the title. Ben or Nathan put it. the title about quantum. And the response from Adam back in the replies was if it's a question in the title, then the answer is always no. Fuck you. Give me the fucking technical reason you think this isn't going to be an issue and why we shouldn't talk about it now. Give me the reason. Why? Because as I said, rushing into something without fully vetting it could be problematic. And you don't know what could be the unintended content. And you have to start trying now.

Starting point is 00:19:46 And you guys are talking about it. And that's what we have. We have the Bip 360. I'll And we could discuss about it. We could look into that. We could put it on, you know, maybe see how it operates on TASnet, shit like that. Let's do shit like that. You know, that's ease ourselves into this. Yeah, we should do that. We should do it.

Starting point is 00:20:01 And that's, I think that the prudent approach about this. And you know what? And then if that thing is ready for prime time and it's ready to go live, we could certainly fork it and put it in there. But until then, I'm not totally set that engaging or enabling BIP 360 is good for in a network right now. It may be. It may not be. I just don't know. Where do you come down? Where do you come down on something like if they put, if they fork for quantum, let's say in two years, will you move to that fork or will you sell that fork?

Starting point is 00:20:34 That's a good question. That's what I don't know. And what about in five years or, or, you know, four years? Like, what is the number, right? This is the other thing that I think a lot of Bitcoiners haven't thought about or can't answer. And I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Like, obviously, I think you're a reasonable guy. We've been doing this show forever. But the bitcoiners who are like, well, I'm not ready or we can't rush. Okay, well, what's the number then? If it's ready in four years, you're going to say, well, none of the encryption has been broken.

Starting point is 00:20:59 We're still working on 120 bit or whatever, 122 bit. I'll give you two examples. So one being tap root, are you happy with that mechanism for having it, signaling it and having it go live? I don't think you were. I think you said you weren't happy with the way things operated as speedy trial. It just wasn't as good as a. could have been. But that was a low risk, you know, sort of change.

Starting point is 00:21:23 Well, what do we get out of a result of it? We actually got quantum exposure, right? To, that's, that's, that BC one addresses. Yeah. You're right. But I'm looking more of the spam on Bitcoin. People will say like Casey will say that even without Taproot, they would have been spanned on Bitcoin, perhaps, but it would just been more costly and it would have been more challenging to do so. So potentially it may have always been the case that the end result would be spam on Bitcoin, but there'll just be more roadblocks to get it into reality. Now, that's number one. What's the other one?

Starting point is 00:21:54 Bip 110? Yeah, 110 is the one that's in the, not quite in the pipeline, but it's the, I think that's the Hunter Beast one, right? Is that the one that's going to be coming up on September? Am I right? I think so. I have to look at that, but yeah, I think one of the time. Are you big, like, I don't think anybody here is saying, yeah, it's fucking running.

Starting point is 00:22:13 I don't know, I don't know enough about it. I have to look. That's the thing. Yeah, for sure. So there's a real thought that that may end up being a fork and there'll be some coins that are going to be created as a result. Yeah, it's BIP 110. So I haven't even heard much about it because it's like I just kind of brush it off. I just totally forgot the number of the BIP.

Starting point is 00:22:34 That's what it is. So to go back to this, quantum, interesting discussion. Let's talk about it. I think that's really the stage we should be at right now. No action for some time. Let's discuss. Let's look at all the options. Let's test out the options thoroughly.

Starting point is 00:22:51 And once we're satisfied that the options will not jeopardize a network, we could go ahead. Fair enough. Fair enough. If you're watching on YouTube, like the video. That's my CTA for the day. Okay, what else you want to talk about? What's next?

Starting point is 00:23:03 Treasury companies that we discussed this very briefly last week when you broke live on the air that Nakamoto was selling $20 million worth of Bitcoin. That's 284 Bitcoin that they sold for Fiat. and why did they need to do it? They needed money for working capital because their stack was running dry. And it really wasn't a terrible move because they're cornering the market

Starting point is 00:23:27 of the buy, high, sell low. And I like that mentality because if you understand it, it's only a 40% haircut they took in a bit of it. It could be a lot worse. If you look at one of your investors, for instance, that's the true definition of a bag holder. So that they're, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:45 that's a company that steadily, decline. And still, you know, I'm kind of pissed in the way. I'm still waiting for a return call or email from that voicemail I left sometime. I think it was September. Did you leave contact info? I forget. I did the email address and nothing has come back. And I don't know why nobody wants to talk to me. Damn Bitcoin well. Like I'm just exposed this now. I fucking tried twice two different avenues, never got a reply back. I don't know why I'm fucking nuclear, but apparently I am. That's fine. I mean, nobody wants my money to invest. Anyways. So you got these public and traded companies looks like they're starting to sell some Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:24:20 And another one is the genius group, GNS. And they performed a genius move themselves by selling all of their corn. They're no longer on the path to what they said initially, holding 90% or more of their reserves in Bitcoin. That was their intention. Why would you even say that? You know what? It was paper Bitcoin summer.

Starting point is 00:24:41 Anything you said was supposed to increase the dollar. There shares were training at 158 U.S.D last summer. Now it's around 35 cents. As at least a weekend. GNS? GNS. Oh, my God. That is a bomb.

Starting point is 00:24:58 Oh, my God. Well, the NACO is even worse. It was 158. NACA was at 25-ish. Still bad. Still bad. Yeah, it is. It is awful.

Starting point is 00:25:08 But it's just, this is part for the course for these companies. And you know what? All these games gone up in flames. And they said they're selling off a portion of their treasury to maintain liquidity. That sounds pretty damning to me. It looks like that they need money. But it's a profitable company, which is interesting. From what I gather, they're a profitable company.

Starting point is 00:25:25 They have a business model. I think we have talked about genius last year. And I can't remember what we said the business model was. They're not medical supplies. That was Nakamoto was kind of MD, right? Yeah. Yeah, I can't remember what these things are. But another one that's kind of capitulating here is Marathon.

Starting point is 00:25:44 And Marathon, I guess inscriptions in Caspa could only take them so far because they said two things. Number one, 15% of their workforce, that's around 40 people, were laid off or fired. That's a better terminology. And 15,000 Bitcoin were sold off to pay off a $1 billion in convertible notes. And they said they're now pivoting to energy, digital infrastructure, AI, HPC, data centers. These guys were once number two In terms of Bitcoin under balance sheet Second to MSTR

Starting point is 00:26:18 They're now quickly falling down the charts I think this is So it's three different stories All kind of have some commonality In that they're selling Bitcoin And the reason why all three Two of them I think are the same But the third I think is

Starting point is 00:26:32 It's more of a Bitcoin mining story That it's going to be changing It's way in Why do you think You think it's more of a mining story than a treasury story I think these are the same. They are.

Starting point is 00:26:43 Thematically the same, yeah. Yeah, but you're right. It's all three are the same, but you have to sprinkle in that the fact that they're pivoting to energy and AI, HPC data centers. So Marathon is not going to be totally just doing Bitcoin mining, Kaspab mining, and putting inscriptions on the blockchain. They're going to be doing other things that seem to be more profitable. And it makes sense, right? If they are trying to increase the valuation of the company and provide a sense. much gains

Starting point is 00:27:11 of possible to their shareholders. It makes sense to chase whatever is the most profitable, the most lucrative for them.

Starting point is 00:27:18 For sure. I don't blame them. But, you know, the other things We saw coming. We saw coming. You and I have talked a lot about how miners

Starting point is 00:27:28 and Bitcoin treasury companies not named MSTR are going to sell so soon. Like so early compared to these, you know, monolithic MSTR treasury strategy company.

Starting point is 00:27:40 Like, there's only one. Okay, this is it. And everyone else is playing catch up. Everyone else doesn't have the same balance sheet. Everyone else doesn't have a cash flow in company or did have a cash flowing company. I really don't know if MSTR is still even doing their enterprise software stuff. But let's assume for a second that they have cash flow some other way through one of these preferreds or whatever they're doing there. They're not going to sell for a long, long time.

Starting point is 00:28:03 And the fact of the matter is, land, what is the thing that ended up separating MSTR from the other guys? It's that they had a debt issuance plan. And the other guys who tried this so far have not been able to do it. There's one company in Japan whose name is escaping me right now. Not Metaplanet. Metaplanet who also does some convertibles, I think, if memory serves. So they're successful for sort of reason 1A and 1B, the convertibles and also the jurisdiction limits investors in terms of what they can buy.

Starting point is 00:28:34 So MetaPlanit makes sense for people who want to invest from Japan. But the debt issuance really is the thing that made the biggest difference, right? So it's interesting that we talk a lot on this show and many shows actually about the sort of downfalls of debt and the issues with debt-based economies and debt-based spending and the, you know, the Fiat symbiosis with debt and how these two are living parasitically off of each other. But let's face it, okay, if you had adopted this strategy, your company probably would be doing a lot better than if you're just a buyer and holder as a treasury asset. The other funny thing, too, is that this, you know, over a long enough time horizon worked for you as a Bikers. coiner as well. I've been a rough five years, though, if you had tried this, you know, since 2021 or 2022. I don't know what's going to happen with MSTR long term, but the longer they stick around, the more companies to capitulate. I mean, Sailor bought again today. I think I saw another

Starting point is 00:29:25 orange dot tweet from him today. So this is working for them. And the other companies tried to mimic and tried to, I think, you know, a point we'd probably both agree on is that they tried to use press releases to pump their bags. You know, there was never any real commitment, never any real conviction, never any real long-term strategy, but to say we're buying Bitcoin and hope the people buy your stock and it didn't work. Production ready? I guess we did this last story and then we could transition the rest of the stories and the notable side.

Starting point is 00:29:54 And this is a newly minted organization that's not for profit. And the goal of it is to fund the development of stability focused and conservative alternative Bitcoin node implementations. This is essentially different client software that you could run that is not named core or not. And the people behind this production ready company includes Samson Mao, Jimmy Song,

Starting point is 00:30:20 Parker Lewis can't lose. And they say that they've done to say Parker Lewis can't lose. Remember that show? No. There's a show from the 90s, Parker Lewis can't lose. No, I don't remember that. That's every time I see his name, it always reminds me of that show.

Starting point is 00:30:34 That's funny. That's funny. And yeah, so I've been saying for a while, it's, we need, it'd be nice to have more alternatives for client software over knots and core, which seems to be the two frontrunners. So with respect to this production ready stuff, bring it on. I like it. The end users, we need to have more things, more things we could run, more usable options.

Starting point is 00:30:58 But like I say, usable. I don't want shit. I want something that is actually I could run. And the fact that they want to maintain a conservative development of mental path sounds pretty good. It leaves me to believe they don't want to change a heck of a lot. and without discussion and consensus. And who's going to be providing this consensus? I can't wait to see who it is.

Starting point is 00:31:20 Right? This is still kind of a centralized entity going to be running the shots. Let's see it if they're going to take opinions from outside. I hope they will. I think they will, but remains to be seen. Also, there's talks that they want to restore the 83 by opertern data limit. Really good. A step in the right direction.

Starting point is 00:31:40 John is saying it's the same as not but it looks like this is going to be a little bit different because they say they're going to be conservative in their approach and so I'm not sure not states reverted to 42 bytes I believe for the upper turn I could be wrong but I seem to recall that

Starting point is 00:31:56 yeah I think so I think so either way the fact that they want to make 83 bytes for that I like it ideally I would like to have a slider or maybe some something I could edit in a config file if I want to make it 40 something 80 something or a million than something,

Starting point is 00:32:13 I want to have that option. I want to be able to do it. That would be ideal rather than to kind of be forced into a corner and to use to what they want me to use. But either way, more options. I hope they give us a light version too, if possible, because there are people that run this on meager hardware. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:30 For instance, maybe people I want to run in a Raspberry Pi, you know, give people lightweight users and power users options. I want to see something like this. So I like it. At least right now, they could go in the wrong direction very easily. But this is something with the watch. And if they could release an alternative to knots and core, bring it on. Okay, let me ask you something separate from the knots versus core thing.

Starting point is 00:32:53 We talk a lot, mostly you, because I don't run a note. Okay. Famously, infamously, I guess is the right word. About whether or not node runners should adopt knots or core. And it really has to do with really two things, right? Do you agree with the spam? Do you agree with the way that the core team behaves? Those are the two levers that you have to pull on. You know what I think would be beneficial?

Starting point is 00:33:17 And I want to know if you think the same thing. Why doesn't someone come up with a version of core or a version of the software, I should say, not a version of core. Although I guess it is a version of core no matter how you cut it. Why not come up with something that encourages people who don't run nodes to run them? Isn't this ultimately the goal? Like, shouldn't we start there? again, like I've been thinking a lot last little while about like the priorities in Bitcoin. What are people? What is the priority? The priority has become too tribal in my opinion inside of Bitcoin

Starting point is 00:33:46 and not more like how can we onboard people to something that's simple as a node. You brought it up there perfectly. Like we should have sliders. Should be more accessible. Power users, light users, new users, experience users. But we don't see that. And so I don't necessarily view that as a core versus not thing. I view it as a like a zero to one thing. If somebody showed me a, a core node that took no time to start up, just like, you know, you use a, it's like an app on your computer or whatever, and you're done, you're there.

Starting point is 00:34:15 Sweet. We've talked before, and there's been like, there's rumors years ago. I don't know if they're still floating around anywhere, if anyone's still working on this, but the mobile node, right? There hasn't been a lot of movement on any of this stuff in a long time.

Starting point is 00:34:27 It seems we've abandoned the idea that we should bring more nodes online vis-a-vis easier software and less strict hardware requirements. I think it's pretty easy, though, to run it. If you have a computer, and I'm looking at Windows or Mac, you just download the software, simply run it, wait, however longs to do the IBD, and you're good to go. Like, it's really not that difficult. What's the incentive to do so is I think people need to understand why you want to run a node. You're imposing your will in a network.

Starting point is 00:35:01 You are broadcasting transactions without relying on anybody. You are a true participant, right? true participant at that stage. You're your own bank. Yeah. Rather than no, there's no trust. You're verifying everything and you're verifying within your own domain, your own house. So like there's, there's a lot.

Starting point is 00:35:18 I think there's a lot of positives that go along with running a note. And I don't know. It's hard to convince people. Fuck, I tried you for a lot of time. We'll continue to try to twist you around to get you going. It makes sense, though. It's not that hard, you know, just download it the fucking software and just click it. way you go. So in terms of how difficult it is, I don't think it's that challenging. But maybe

Starting point is 00:35:42 I'm looking at from a different lens. I mean, somebody else could probably tell me otherwise. Time will tell. Time will tell. Do you want to switch over to the notable noise? Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. Compact show today. I see you guys in the chat. The reason we're doing this early, if you showed up late, you probably did because we didn't tell anyone is because NASA is going to be live tonight during our normal streaming time. So we do not want to compete with the announcement of alien life. Anyway, so if you're on audio, come back tomorrow for the back half. If you're on video, Stay with us. We're not going anywhere.

Starting point is 00:36:08 Run a node.

The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The Quantum Threat, BTC Treasury Companies Sell, Node Wars | CBP 259 Pt 1

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