The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - The USA Sells Bitcoin, Bukele Caught in a Lie, Powell Under Pressure | The CBP 224 Pt 1

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

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One of the things that can't be attacked is your self custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too. It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies.

Welcome back Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. For more information on the friends and enemies welcome back to the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast the greatest podcast on earth my name is Joey that's what what's going on buddy it's good to see you yeah likewise it's another day another you don't have any comment about that proclamation there the best podcast on earth No, it can be everything is a subjective right when it comes to podcasting and ranking them I would say we're the best if not fuck you right if you don't think we're the best just that fuck you Listen to something else by the way the comments on anchor are often about how much we swear and we should not be swearing that much I don't know if that's a good or bad for the algo, but I don't know all the same. I don't know

There was a time when we thought about stuff like that we were in our MBC and really worried about it, but Yeah fan base I hate calling a fan base the the listener base the community around the show is pretty strong anyway, so Big show tonight, maybe you know Anyway, so big show tonight. Maybe you know, it's a big show too. Part of the second half of the show. I'm introducing something very new. You don't know about it, Joey. We'll do the sponsors first.

They get to a little housekeeping. Oh God, that's funny. I'm sponsored by EasyDNS. The best place for you to host, register or otherwise bring on a domain to your fleet of domains. Mark has been a friend of the show for a long time and we're grateful to have him as a sponsor, of course. For the Bitcoiners, there's a number of things over there that you'll like. Virtual private server stuff.

We talk about the Nostra Relays, Bitcoin nodes you can do over at EasyDNS. But I think now then the security thing might actually be more important. So EasyMail and DomainSure over there, protecting your data and maybe more importantly the data of the people who trust you with their email address. So if you're writing a newsletter, running a business, a podcast like us, you can go to EasyDNS and host the website and be sure about the security of your product. CBP Media is the code. Get 50% off your first round of buys, of course. And don't forget you can pay in Bitcoin if you want to part with some of your corn. Get the circular economy going. Mark was taking Bitcoin way before it was cool.

I'll tell you that. Who's the second sponsor? Well, Bitcoin. Look, good place to buy, good place to sell your Bitcoin, and some new features that come along with that. We'll talk about that momentarily. Your buys can be done on-chain, if we're done with Lightning, on-chain is still extremely cheap and there's going to be a topic about that in today's show. So I would suggest if you're going to do a buy, do your your buys on-chain. I know it's a $200 limit, that's the minimum when doing on chain, but you know what? Save it up, buy when you have the $200 plus and then go from there. With Bull Bitcoin, there's a couple of new features that they've rolled out. DCA, you can do that.

So you could also buy at a particular bank or credit union in Alberta. So like there's lots of different options you could do with bull Bitcoin and check them out. Best in Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica, parts of Europe. They're the best in the world. You can't use them everywhere in the world, but they're the best in the world. That's all there is to it. Yeah. And if you have an open account, use our link below to open one out. If you live in any of those countries, I mentioned Canada included, I didn't mention that. And we'll take a few dollars off your buys when you do that so check it out do that help us out housekeeping Len this week so last week I should say we talked to the learning Bitcoin

guys Pablo and Zach came on to talk about the conference we talked about a lot of stuff actually the kind of creeping government control we're seeing, the importance of like keeping a pure heart and pure soul when you run a conference like learning Bitcoin and a number of other things too. That conference is coming up obviously in British Columbia. Use our code. I think it's just CBP. Get 20% off.

We don't get anything from that by the way. I don't want anything from that. I just want people to go to the conference. That's a good group of guys and gals and they're doing good work over there. So I want to promote that as much as possible. This week, Joe Barbudo is coming back on the show. I think I said this last week. He sent me a message saying that he saw on YouTube or somewhere me ranting about boomers and how boomers just don't get it and don't have to get it. And he said he agrees in some respects, but wants to talk about some of the data around that.

And the last time he was on, we didn't really talk about it because we didn't, it wasn't in the agenda. Like, you know, it never came up. And so this time we're gonna go hard on the boomers. He's been sending me a lot of charts, a lot of data, and I think it's gonna be a really good show. So I'm looking forward to that one. lot of data and I think it's going to be a really good show. So I'm looking forward to that one. Also the second episode of Around the Corn released with our friend Yukon Cornelius, you guys may know. And is that on Fountain? Because I took a look at it not too long ago. Oh no, Len just dropped off. What happened there? Where'd he go? You're back. Come back, come back. I'm here. You talked about fountain and the intelligence community took you out.

So it's not I haven't claimed it. I don't know how to claim it, but I will eventually get to that as well. You know what's interesting, Joey? There's also some other podcasts called Around the Horn on around. Around the Horn is an old ESPN show. So let's go around the corn. Yeah. So we just released our second episode of that.

We recorded that last night. We were going to read them for around the corn. Yeah. So we just released our second episode of that. We recorded that last night. We were going to read them for around the corn. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, mine will be there at some point and it'll be stronger than these other ones. So we did that. And the reason we had to record it Sunday instead of the usual Saturday is because I blew up my healthy ACL on Saturday playing football. The good one, the one that was, you were born with it.

Yeah, yeah. It's OEM. It's OEM. The, uh, I was saying to Len that, you know, the, the, one of the benefits of being, you know, that's to my own horn, but to be like still fast in my late thirties is that you can play with kids who are 20 years old, you know, 20, 21 years old and, uh, you know, I was trying to make a cut on a second half play. And I thought to myself, I just said this to Lemon for the show, I thought to myself

before I made the cut, this is going to be a tough cut to make. I pumped my foot out in front of me, my right foot. It was way too far out in front of me. And so not only did I hear and feel the pop, I also saw it, which was pretty gnarly. So unlike last time I did this, this is before any of you guys knew me, I was probably like 23 maybe when I tore my other one. I did not just lie in bed feeling sorry for myself for two days. I had been walking on it and biking and now I am basically, I don't know, walking more

or less fine, which is great. A little swollen, obviously, but all things considered, not bad. And even in Kami, Canada, if you know the right people, you can get a doctor's appointment in 24 hours. So I have an appointment tomorrow afternoon to get the ball rolling on what'll probably wind up being surgery. Wow. After all this talk about Canada's healthcare and this and that.

Well, Canadian healthcare is terrible. I know people and I know how to advocate for myself and so I know how to get an appointment in 24 hours if I know what's wrong with me. I can do that. So my mother-in-law this past weekend fell, cracked her hip and so surgery is not required because of based on where the crack is and she's in a private room, surprisingly. So she's been put and she's been in there for the last two days and will be there for the next day or two, I think. Interesting.

Yeah. And that's she doesn't speak very much English, so she didn't advocate for herself. My wife, her daughter was the one that's doing that. So yeah. So kudos to what's going on. Like I know a lot of people are complaining about it, but your experience recent seems pretty good. If you know what to do, if you know what to do, the common denominator there in both cases

is that there's advocacy, right? For your situation. So yeah, interesting. Like, you know, I have a good physiotherapist who's a Bitcoiner. I won't mention who I called right after the injury happened and got some advice from about how to keep it from getting worse. And like I said, contrary to popular belief, you have to get on it, which I kind of knew from the Achilles tear, but I wanted to make sure it's a bit of a different injury. And now Len, you know, it's funny. This is ACL hour on CBP. When I had my first surgery about 15 years ago, my friend had his at exactly the same time, same injury, same everything, different doctors.

My surgeon, Rick Ogilvie, guy's a legend, he retired recently, unfortunately, so it'll be someone else at the table when I'm under the knife in a, you know, hopefully a few months. When I finished my surgery, I was in a cast for two days and on the third day I had to go back to the hospital to get the cast removed and you know get the brace fitting and all that and start start walking. I went back to playing sports with cleats on without any bracing or support in five months and that's pretty good. I'm proud of that still to this day and I still talk about that when people ask about ACL surgeries because a lot of my friends now have torn at doing all sorts of different things over the years.

My other friend was in a cast for 10 days and never went back to playing sports. And so, you know, I really do stand by this idea that you have to get on this stuff earlier. Now, Len, when you finish your ACL surgery, you're given the locking brace, the donjoy kind of standard outfit that you get for an injury like this. I don't know if the brand is still donjoy, but mine is a donjoy from years ago. And they basically have you walk to your car. You know, like the number of things that have advanced in these in this

regard in the last 10 years, when people, you know, my dad called me a little while ago and asked how my knee was feeling. And I told him like, you know, it's honestly not that bad. It's swollen and it's a little sore, but I'm walking around, I know, my dad called me a little while ago and asked how my knee was feeling and I told him like, you know, it's honestly not that bad. It's swollen and it's a little sore, but I'm walking around, I'm holding my daughter. I was outside barbecuing for dinner, you know. The things that you know now or can find out now about injuries, we've come such a long way. I feel so fortunate to have gone through these catastrophic injuries now as opposed to in

the 90s because as you mentioned in the pregame here, Mickey Mantle played his whole career with a torn ACL. I didn't even know that you told me that before the show started. Yeah. And he couldn't fix a hall of fame career. No, he couldn't. He couldn't fix it. In the 50s, they didn't have that technology to do that. And it took till the 80s. They finally did it. it work at his knee to figure it out geez your knee has a torn ACL yeah you played his whole fucking career like it's not his whole career it's nuts it's nuts so I'm looking for I've heard whole rods is a switch hitter not many yeah on one leg on one leg so yeah I don't know I might document some stuff about that or

talk to you guys about it during the Monday shows. But yeah, I'm looking forward to in a very perverse way the challenge of returning to athletics at my age and with my play style. I'll probably be 38 when I go back to playing. So we'll see how all that goes. But yeah, thanks. Thanks for the well wishes people have given me well wishes and I look forward to Vlogging my recovery like an annoying youtuber. Anyway, so do you want to do some boosts? We got any boosts for the week? Can we access them this Oscar Mary allowed us to see the boost this time around any any technical? Yeah There's three worth while to mention wartime three three three sats and he writes in love you guys with an emoji of two beer mugs

Doing a cheer. So love you to wartime. Thank you. Yeah, do the heart. Can you do the heart? Well, I think it's I it's pretty good. I don't know I'm not very good. This looks like an it's looks like a Mario 2 onion more than a heart I think but that's a shitty game Mario 2 by the way, it's the worst one of the yeah,. He's just doki doki panic. It's not fucking Mario. I forgot it's a, it's a port or clone, right? Yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently we're just not worthy enough to get the real Mario two, which is too hard for the Western audience. Fuck you, Nintendo. Dallas Smith, 1000 sats. He says riding the line of noticing laugh out loud. There you go. And last but not least, we have Doug 1021 Sats.

And he says, Dear 2021 was all about girlfriends and lambos on blockfire loans. This time around, we have wives, maybe a kid. Well, Joey anyway, so time to pimp the teeth. Great discussion. Would love to better Be better at educating Bitcoin. If only educating wasn't my actual profession excuse Unfortunately, your curriculum doesn't allow you to do that He's making reference to my invisible line retainers that I have in right now. So yeah, I got those last week, too

So, you know, it's nice to not have to, I didn't like really playing with them in on Saturday and now I won't have to worry about that because I probably won't play for, I don't know, eight months by the time I have the surgery. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be busy. I got, I got enough going on. I don't need anything else for now. I think I'm good. I think I'm good. Yeah. Anyway, that's it for the boosts. Let's get started then. Where do you want to, where do you want to start? We've got a couple of bangers here. Do you want to talk about Buckeli the fraud? Do you want to talk about, I mean we can, we start anywhere. You decide. We could talk about Buckeli the fraud. Like are they still buying Bitcoin? You hear the stories they are. No, they're not. You hear the stories

they're disqualified from doing it. They're showing this address. Is it Bitcoin being shuffled around? I don't know what the fuck he's just fucking around with this cold card and sparrow and then telling people he's buying another million, another billion. Plethora had this by the way, two years ago. The ship has sailed with respect to Bitcoin and El Salvador looks like. But in terms of other things, like I'm just looking at from what I understand, I could be wrong, like crime, murders, things have improved over there. And so it's not maybe it's a much better place to live now than it was say three, four, five, six years ago.

But I feel bad for the people, the Bitcoin that invested hard-earned money to buy property or obtain Residency or citizenship or the fuck it was because they were allowing something like that and with the idea slash the promise of this being a Bitcoin paradise and Unfortunately, the rug was pulled from that idea and the people that paid up it's gone You can't undo that you can't go to the Bitcoin CEO and have this charge reversed. It's done. And so I have nothing really to add about this. I mean, there's nothing really I could add. Everybody has your opinion and all the more power to you, but that's mine. Ship has sailed. It's done.

Okay. Let me ask you this. Has the ship sailed on Bukele for you? No, I look at in terms of how life has improved in El Salvador. I have no skin in the game because I don't live there. I'm not Salvadorian. I have no family there, I have nothing. So for people that do live there, I'm sure they're saying, you know,

things are much better now than it is there. And I think a lot has to do with Bukele's policies and how he implemented them. So with respect to that, life is probably better for people living there. So the ship, I don't think has sailed on him as a politician. As a Bitcoiner, yes. As a politician, probably not. All right. I think it's sailed on him personally, like reputation wise. Jaime Garcia, who's been on the show a handful of times, and I think who's actually also either recovering from an ACL tear or an Achilles tear. Turn me on to something on the show. He's either on the show or after the show, but I'll share it here now, regardless.

In his previous career, Bukele was a PR guy. He's a narrative crafter. Okay? So when you think about the stuff you've seen from him in those terms, you know, you look at it through that lens, what do you think about? Think about all kinds of spectacle from him over the years. Whether it's, you know, two kilometer long human centipedes of tattooed gangsters in El Salvadorian jails, or it's Bitcoin city renderings with tons of glowing lights, you know, YouTube thumbnail style, or it's the volcano bonds that never materialized, or it's visits to the White House, visits to Miami for the Bitcoin conference, you name it. if you just consider that his profession

in the past was PR guy and narrative guy, everything makes a little more sense. We, I think, should pat ourselves in the back here a little bit and that's why my tag is taking a victory lap. I use this on around the corn too, this tag, because I think you and me have been correctly assessing the relationship and specifically the change in the relationship between the IMF and El Salvador over the last eight months. It started around... No, I was still skeptical about anything that's going on. I just don't know. I think both of us expressed... I mean I'll speak for myself but I

think you did too... expressed, let's say concern around the narrative that, you know, slop coin channels were pumping when it was announced that the IMF was going to give El Salvador a loan and El Salvador had quote unquote new Bitcoin buys after receiving the loan. Like, oh, they're using El Salvador or they're using the IMF's money to add to the El Salvador coffers. I think we expressed some skepticism about that. And I think we were right.

And there's a lot of channels, including, you know, Simply, including many others who I won't mention because I don't even think they deserve the press. But it's obvious, I think, that this relationship has been undergoing a shift because there's clearly something happening in El Salvador apart from Bitcoin that makes a lot of sense and the IMF doesn't like. I'll just add one more thing here. The demand for Salvadorian bonds went up significantly about six months ago, eight months ago, something like that. Could have been actually longer and I'm not 100% sure exactly when that jump was but I think we talked about it on the show.

I think we talked about it with a friend of the show, SB, when he was on last. It seems like an eternity ago. But at that time, the thinking was, well, the popularity of these bonds is increasing and the demand is increasing because as a Bitcoin native country, this is going to be a more favorable outcome for debt holders who want to buy that medium or long term note. In reality now, what was probably actually happening is insiders understood that they were going to be getting back in bed with the IMF and that's when the demand for those bonds started to go up. So now they have a bunch of debt that's coming due

and they don't have the money to pay it and so they need the IMF to help them out. At the end of the day, I look at this story and I don't believe anybody who's making statements about it. I don't believe the IMF in their entirety when they say that they've basically neutered the Bitcoin program, I don't believe El Salvador when they rearrange coins and consolidate UTXOs and don't put a stop to the commentary online that Pekali definitely sees about new Bitcoin buys. I don't believe anyone.

And I think that not believing anyone is reason enough to write these guys off as a country. I think people who moved there got played. I think people who simped hard for El Salvador got absolutely wrecked over this. Chivo failed. Bitcoin Beach failed. You can say whatever you want about, oh there's people accepting Bitcoin in El Zante. Like who cares man? Okay, you were sold a false bill of goods here. You can either admit it or not admit it, but everyone impartially observing this from the outside can see what happened here. And while it is unfortunate, it doesn't make it any less true. And I want people to move on from this country and this president ASAP. Let's find some better places to spend our time and energy.

There is nowhere else right now with respect to a Bitcoin country. That was the only one is too bad. And now we have to start from square one again. There's nothing. So if the build a new what's next? Let's see Central African Republic. Is that going to do it? Remember that?

Oh my God. Yeah. A cons cryptocurrency city or whatever that fell through to. Don't even remember that one. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah jungle, yeah, is the name of the region. There are like little areas. Yeah. Yeah.

And like, I just want to also note, Glenn, that like, I happen to believe that you don't need a top down force feeding of Bitcoin. Everyone's going to get this at some point. A lot of people are getting it now overseas and otherwise. And I also think that one of the reasons, by the way, that the IMF crackdown in El Salvador is because there's going to be a push, a really hard push. I know this is going to pour some cold water on you guys in the chat, you know, naming these other places.

There's going to be a really hard push from America centric NGOs and international organizations to push US dollar stable coins. Oh, that's the genius act. Yeah, exactly. And like they're pushing that as a, they're trying to make some regulatory framework. They're trying to put, hey, I, you know what, this whole thing, I have really nothing really to say about it. It is right.

Like what could you, what, what sort of commentary could you add to this? Just, I just, it's like I told you so it feels like about El Salvador. I'll say that it's like, you can't, don't jump the gun all the time. Like don't just imagine that everything is Gucci. Everything's great. Everything's it's hard to do this stuff. It's hard, you know, ask your friends are living in a country. If you're Canadian or American, or even if you're a, you know, Euro poor,

your friends are living a life where they have some more excess savings than people in El Salvador. They still don't get it. They still don't want to save in Bitcoin. They see that things are going downhill with their own currency and they can't wrap their head around it. In a place like El Salvador, it's not top of mind. So I just you know it's like and I told you so I think in a lot of ways and maybe I'm dancing on the grave of this guy in this country a little bit and the, the simps online and the slop Bitcoin slop channel universe. But I really think this was a long time coming and people who couldn't see it just didn't want to more than anything.

Bitcoin is for the foreseeable future is going to be a store of value. Yeah, that's it be a store of value. Yeah, that's it. As a medium of exchange, I'd like to see it be used. And even with that, like, you know, Trump was talking about or somebody from the White House was the press secretary. Whatever the fuck it was, was saying that they're considering putting a threshold in of $600 before capital gains is going to be applicable. And I like that type of mood because then you're

now pushing the narrative of Bitcoin being as a media exchange and we have to start doing it. It's unfortunate right now the requirements in Canada and the US are challenging enough because you have to calculate how much you bought it for, how much you sold it for, then report that to the tax authorities and pay your capital gains. Don't forget to land. Like you, you're always on this. And I think a lot of people don't realize that it's not just a schtick, but even if you send Bitcoin from a wallet you control to another wallet, like that's if there's a tax law, you know, it's going to be on you to prove that you didn't quote unquote spend

the Bitcoin. Yes. You know, like it's the conversion of Bitcoin to something not named Bitcoin. That's when it's a taxable event. Yeah. As long as you're, you know, if you control both addresses and you're moving in from one dress, one address to another, and you could prove that you, you have control of both addresses.

It's very simple to do so that they wouldn't be able to nail you to the cross for not paying your taxes there but this is a move i i hope they go ahead with this i hope they go ahead 600 doesn't seem like a lot and every day that 600 gets eroded due to inflation but it's a starting point right it really is a starting point because if united states hypothetically says you know we're going to accept so we're going to allow Bitcoin transactions up to six hundred dollars without any capital gains requirement what's stopping then Canada doing the same Europe I guess once the scarf is gone but once she's gone they could probably start doing the same like there's other countries if United States starts

doing it others will probably follow suit furthermore, I've said this before, I don't know how much validity there is to this, but maybe a some. There's capital that's locked in Bitcoin because nobody's wanting to spend it. I know the numbers going up and nobody wants to spend it for that regard, but there are some people that do want to spend it, but they just don't want like, they don't want to deal with the bullshit that goes along with capital gains. And that's taxation. Very small at that. But it's lost. It's never going to be captured until you allow people to use it as a medium exchange. And once that's done, then you can start capturing small tax dollars. Yeah. But maybe over time that will grow and it could be to the net benefit of the country that allows it. Yeah, I love to see this news.

Bitcoin is a medium exchange and we have to start or people have to allow us to do without the bullshit that's required with capital gain requirements and reporting. I don't I mean, I understand it's the law, but it's still we could ask for this to be changed and just allow us to do it because a lot of people have KYC Bitcoin and that stuff, you know, if they really want to check it out, if you start spending it, it goes to a wallet that's known, you know, to whatever. And then, oh, you spent it. You didn't claim any taxes.

Now let's do an audit at your previous years and then you don't want to go through this process. It's just not worth it. No, I totally agree. You know, the only thing I think about when I hear like $600 de minimis tax exemption is are we accepting too low a number and celebrating this kind of low-hanging fruit? I mean, not, yeah, we're Canadian. We don't even have that exemption, but the Americans, you know, like it's like, could

you do better than that? You just it's funny to me that we just went from as a community. OK, celebrating the president of the United States at the Bitcoin conference. Like talk about that's a dub. OK, like having the president forced to come to the Bitcoin conference to campaign, basically. I mean, he probably was paid, but let's face it. OK, a lot of people willing to pay that guy for their parents. And he still chose that setting. Going from that to $600 de minimis seems like

a steep decline. It's a steep drop off in my view. Well, what about him selling Trump or Melania coin? Is that a steep drop off or of course, no, no, it's all bad. It's all bad. But in terms of, it's not like it just started all of a sudden. This has been a fucking Yeah, it's declined a long time ago. Yeah. Okay, but in terms of policy I'm saying like you went from Bitcoin strategic reserve to six hundred all de minimis and I see Nate in the chat like I I just think that's wrong. Like I don't think any amount is a win I think any amount is a starting point, and you know which direction all these starting points go over time.

And like the idea that you're gonna give this up as a dub, you know, I just don't think it's right. Yeah, weed legalization is an interesting comparison. I don't think it's a good one, but we can talk about it. Weed legalization meant when it first was announced that everyone could smoke pot. Now what it means is you can only buy government weed and anyone who tries to open any competing weed store gets shut down, fined and sent to jail. Like these are significant losses I think and it's not

unenforceable. Nothing is unenforceable. We've talked about this before. The chilling effect is all it takes. It might be hard to get everybody who wants to do $601 transactions, but if you get one person who's famous enough that does $601 transactions, it will act to stop the majority of the transactions above that number for everyone else.

This is a common tactic, happens like this all the time. And like I've said on the show before, calling things unenforceable, calling things wins, blah, blah, blah, fine, but you know, we've done so much as a community in the last 10 years. Why should we give up at 600? Why should we give up at, you know, this, the minimus? Oh, it's not the, it's not the final point.

I know, but I don't think, I don't think it's a reasonable point of discussion to say that we're going to start at 600 and it's going to move to a thousand. Like, like that is not, are we really going to debate this? Like, come on. Why wouldn't, well, and I think you could acknowledge that there's now more lobbyists within this quote unquote crypto space than there were, say, five years ago. And the number of lobbyists that are in it are going to probably increase over time due to the amount of now treasury companies and shit like that are involved. So they're now going to get

the ear of these politicians way more than they did in the past. And they potentially might be able to push a narrative that has never been pushed before. Not to say that it's going to stay at 600. I think that if it started at 600, it's the one thing that I think was really going to be bad here is if there's going to be the Democrats winning next election. Because they're going to look at this and say, this is tied to Trump. For sure. So something that's tied to Trump, we want to undo it. And I could see if Trump enables it, the Democrats remove it altogether to zero to where it is today.

That's my fear. Yeah, I don't know. And I can't address everything I see in the chat here, but I'll tell you that I still disagree. And Nate, to your point, you know, it's all love. These are good things. Maybe the thing we can agree on is that these are good things. These are good problems to have, you know, overall. It's a step in the right direction rather than a step in the wrong direction.

And there's a lot of steps that are happening in the wrong direction. Let's be honest. And I guess let's talk about another one that's very popular this past week. And it was Cantor Fitz Gerald and Adam back forming a strategic partnership. I could not believe that these two I would not that I would ever even consider like Cantor Fitzgerald never really crosses my mind and Adam back slightly more than Cantor Fitzgerald, but not very much in my life. But you know, these two entities, I've never imagined that they would come together. And what are they doing? Like, Adam back with this move, Fiat Maxi, maybe.

How could one say it's not after this? They're teaming up to create a Bitcoin treasury company, right? And it's gonna be named the Bitcoin Standard Treasury Company, BSTR. And it's gonna be publicly traded. And publicly traded is a great way to say they could dump on retail.

And it's gonna be done through a great way to say they could dump on retail. And it's going to be done through a SPAC of all things. Oh, God. Canter Equity Partners One. That's the company that they're going to be doing the SPAC with. It's one of those shell companies that exists simply for this type of fiat bullshit. They're going to take advantage of that. And at the onset, this is a very interesting part. 30,000 Bitcoin they plan to have at the onset when this starts.

And reports are saying Adam Back is going to provide 25,000 of his own. 25,000. What the fuck? And they plan to raise $1.5 billion through a private placement in public equity for a rationale or reason to buy more Bitcoin. So yeah, Bitcoin treasury company seems to be vogue these days. If you want to park your money in it, by all means, go ahead. I wouldn't recommend it, but again, it's one size, the glove doesn't fit all sizes.

My glove, I only buy on chain and fuck everything else. But I see this, I don't know, I I mean people are gushing over is because they're seeing two big names coming together. I Don't give a fuck. I honestly do not give a fuck about this isn't isn't the question to ask here Why is cancer a month after starting a similar company with Mallers? Starting now a SPAC with Adam Back. Why? That's a really good question. What am I missing there? Like they're doing this twice, so they're, I guess, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I have no 25,000 Bitcoin probably does a lot. I don't think Mallers is putting up that. No.

If he did that, I don't think they'd go ahead with this or maybe they would. I don't fucking know. They had this shell company sitting there. They had to do something with it. I will. What is the point? How many... The Bitcoin treasury company thing is interesting to me. It has been since it started with Sailor. It still is now. And I don't know what, I still don't really understand exactly what the value prop is here. It's fine, I guess, to have a company that wants to buy Bitcoin.

I'm not sure that that's enough for a company's stock to rise. But they do. And I'm not justifying it. Yeah, they do for now. I don't know why. As soon as they fucking announce it, there's an instant pump and still it happens. Like what the fuck? This is the same as the miners back in the day. Do you remember in like 2022, you know, there'd be an announcement of a roadmap of a, you

know, power purchase agreement M, and a miner would say, we're gonna deploy another, you know, Terra hash or whatever of juice and the stock would pump. Like, okay, that's good, I guess. Then he had sailors say that he's gonna buy Bitcoin with his balance sheet, and then he started to really go hard and issued debt to buy it. Now he's issuing prefs.

I just got a message from someone I know talking about the prefs from the last little while. The ATM is being utilized like 99% plus and the prefs are doing nothing now. So that whole narrative about the preferred shares being the meta is done. Even the companies that are doing this can't seem to do it well enough with one vehicle to keep running. Then you have of course the MetaPlanets. Say what you want about Semmler, they sell medical equipment. MetaPlanet was a failing Japanese hotel chain, I think. And now they're the most traded stock on the Japanese market. here in some of the big five investing envelopes, TD, RBC, probably all have it. I can't get

it on Well Simple, not that I would. And so you got to ask yourself, like, number one, when does this stop? Number two, when does the money that's in these companies start to pull to buy Bitcoin? And then I think if you're a bull, the question is, if these guys start pulling money to buy Bitcoin out of the equities, does it just drive the equity prices higher anyways? Like, there's got to be some limit to this. I'm not sure what it is. It's like the fourth dimension, right? Like I can't perceive it. I can kind of feel the general, you know, I can, I can, I can explain the general, uh, theory around it, but I can't really pin down when or how this is going to end, but it does seem like it's going to end, doesn't it?

It's just, there's too much. Like my instincts tell me this is too much. It's too heavy. Can't keep going on. I guess I, I, do your instincts tell you that? I mean, apart from the fact that you wouldn't buy any of this stuff anyway, doesn't this, doesn't this like tickle your top instinct a little bit? Yes.

And the reason why is you got to go at the very, very root of it. And the ones that are the players behind this, the UTXO management, the people with the like like, something there. Len never misses a chance to take a shot at David Bailey. He never misses a chance. Well, why would I in this one? If your spidey senses are tingling. They're tingling, for sure.

They are tingling, yeah. Yeah, I don't think, but I don't think David Bailey is, like, you know, the guy who's talking about his couple other guys I've put higher on the list. I don't know. Why not? I'm not saying I agree with UTXO management strategy. I'm just saying there's other people on this list of like culprits that I think I would

put above. I know I would put above him. But they are directly behind MetaPlanet for instance. That's for one come and you talked about it. So in terms of one that is very popular, I'm going to pull up Bitcoin Treasuries. Sure. So that's why. So if you're going to talk about MetaPlanet, you can't not talk about the people that are behind it, the UTXO management. So they're the ones again, they're pointing at you, you're the eggs of liquidity and they're going to

laugh at you in the end when they sold you everything and you're just holding heavy bags and They have a lot of money in the bank account. Hopefully they could do something with that Well, actually, I don't give a fuck if they could do anything with that to be honest it just other things too that are just It rubs me the wrong way. It's very fiat isk feed ask is like the sats per share for instance the Sealer talks about the Bitcoin yield Bitcoin torque. I have no idea what the fuck that is.

There's these terms that are being thrown out there that are just made up. If you just boil it down, it's how much fucking sats you have in a wallet. That is it. That's really all the other thing is just fucking bullshit made up via crap. That's all I care about is how much fucking Bitcoin I have and I control the rest. Fuck off.

I don't give a shit. So this is the Bitcoin treasuries. Is this MDK's website? I have to sign in to see this? What is this? I'm waiting for the date. Is he this? Is that him?

He's the, or Is he this? Is that him? Either he's behind it or the company that he runs is behind it. Either one. But I'm waiting for the day when the total amount of Bitcoin that's listed here is greater than 21 million. And then I'll fucking laugh when it comes out. Oh, what the fuck? We did our math wrong. Now it's coming up to 22 or 23 or 25 million Bitcoin that is owned by these Treasury companies Get the fuck out of here without any proof of reserves or not controlling your own keys It's just you don't fucking know and even if they did you're giving them or not giving them you're giving

the bank Money to buy on and ultimately goes to the brokerage to buy into this stuff. It's fucking bullshit. You never know if you're going to be able to get it out. But you know everybody do whatever the fuck you want. Honestly don't give a fuck. I've spoken my piece many times and if people get wrecked doing this great. I'm going to just sit there with the cigarette laughing at the side of the road. Would you look at that? I'm going to be happy. Nothing changes for me. Yeah.

I don't know where I come down on all this stuff. It's funny, Nate, in the chat saying it's like the ICO scams. I think that's pretty close to true. Boomer talking about top signals and BTC dominance. I don't know, man. I'm not saying this is a top. I mean, you'd be foolish to make that bet in this environment with rate cuts on the horizon, the Federal Reserve Chairman under

criminal investigation for a renovation at the Fed. This is truly clown world stuff. That's great. Got what I voted for. Metal pin it on them. I mean, it's so good. The sad thing is if you had to turn back the clock and you had the ability, like say you are a US citizen and you could vote. Yeah. Who are you voting for? You're probably voting for the same guy that was just is there right now. There was no...

You can't vote for Kamala Harris. I don't think so, right? You can't. No one's gonna say no. There's no can't vote for Kamala Harris. I don't think so. Right. No, there's no chance. And that's, you know, that's even with using 2020 vision. You still vote for him. Never mind the time you voted for him or you would have voted for him. So like there really was no choice and still he's pathetic.

But the other one is just more pathetic. They're all pathetic. And you're talking about Bukele being a PR guy. Fucking Trump is a PR guy. Oh, big time expert social media expert for sure. He's my favorite president now, though, because he wants the commies to go back to Redskins as the name. So and he was talking about the Cleveland Indians.

Yeah, I'm all like, every time I see him, see mega, mega, mega make Indians. What is that? Did you see that on social I watch the fucking movie, Major League. Mega make Indians great again. What is that? Did you see that on true social? Yeah. You know, I watched Major League the movie. I love that movie by the way. And it just, I see it. I see Chief Wahoo is the fucking symbol.

Like it's great movie and they talk it when the home run goes, it goes into the reservation. Like it's just, there's just, there's things that are just set. Like I just, it's Cleveland Indians. Classic. I just, I just fucking, I love that stuff. Never forget, there's a song in, I think it's in Pocahontas. What makes the red man red or something like that. If you have the old Pocahontas VHS tape, it's on there.

There's probably tons of other like, I mean, even I'm not a big like cultural sensitivity guy, but that might be a bridge too far There's also you know dozens of other references over the years and like Disney movies to Indians and natives and like just general savagery Probably not all you know Probably not all acceptable by any by any stretch, but it's funny to see Trump try to go down this road You know with all the other stuff going on, this is the thing he wants to do. I don't know. Someone's got to get a hold of that guy, rein him in. He's got a lot of energy. I know. In terms of longevity, he's got this term and nothing else. So he's going to do what

he wants to appease anything to distract from the list. John says in the chat, maybe where is it? Who the fuck knows? And then another distraction that came out this week was that the Bitcoin on the US balance sheet, they were saying that there's 29,000 Bitcoin that they had and people were like, they're drooling. Did the US start selling their Bitcoin? They should have had 200,000 Bitcoin. Look at the prices, 117, 118. Like the reality is Department of Justice still has like hundreds of thousands, a couple hundred thousand Bitcoin. Like the US hasn't done anything in terms of reducing their holdings. I mean, I know what happened to that Bitcoin. They used it to juice the Kamala Harris polymarket odds during the Biden admin and lost it on the betting markets.

Pretty sure. Pretty sure that's what happened. I know if they come out and say that, I would have a lot of respect because then truly everybody's the DJ, including the fucking cover. But yeah, in terms of the United States government, they still hold around 200,000 Bitcoin. They haven't sold, they haven't, I mean, I don't think they lost it. And considering like that number, it's about a third of MicroStrategy. If United States has that much,

it's still, MicroStrategy holds a fucking ton of Bitcoin. But anyways, what the bit, what US has is far more than a 29,000 that's being reported. Just my two cents. How do you figure that? They haven't sold. The wallets are public, right? Like the Lola Leets tweet to, by the way, David Bailey, who paid for the information

show to Dave. That's a lot of Bitcoin and it's suddenly not there. So assuming that the data and the collection methodology was correct by Leets, what's the rationale to think that they have more than they're letting on? Other people that do chain analysis, they believe that the Department of Justice hasn't moved anything and is still there. So that's 200,000 still sitting there. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I mean, something to keep an eye on. Ultimately, do you care about this, though? Like, does anyone really care? Well, it's a look, United States has Bitcoin on the balance

sheet. They gathered, they gained it through confiscation. It didn't mine it. They didn't buy it. It was simply through confiscation. Why did they have to sell it? I kind of do care. Personally, I prefer they keep it. Yeah, okay. They have a money printer, right? If they have essentially an infinite amount of money that they have available to them, what's the rationale of selling the Bitcoin they have now for, you know, I don't know how many billion that's going to be. Is that really going to turn the tide in terms of that? 37 trillion dollar debt that's wrecking like nothing. It's right. It's it's not even going to make a fucking dent in that We make fun of germany germany sold. Um Into 50 to 60 000 range about 50 000 bitcoin you sold we and people make fun of that

I know just last year they sold it right they hold held on to that The unrealized profits would be 100% of what they sold. And people make fun of that. I know just last year they sold it, right? They held onto that. The unrealized profits would be 100% of what they sold it at. And they could have used that to do whatever they borrowed against or you just simply hold on to it. Like why, what's the rationale for selling it? Like it doesn't make any sense. I understand that if they mined it, if they used something like they focused their own energy to mine it, or they bought it somehow. I can understand selling it at a higher clip later on. But if you confiscated it, it's almost,

I'd say it's virtually free. Aside from the cost for the manpower or people power, well, let's go with the fucking to confiscate it really what was the cost it's fucking it's nil yeah I am UK is another one yeah Pablo saying UK is likely to sell soon too I believe I believe that all these governments have sort of a weird incentive matrix around holding Bitcoin or selling it I realized that they got got it through seizure or forfeiture. But at the end of the day, if they're holding something that's not gold and not their currency

or a foreign debt note, the question then becomes like, why are you holding it? You don't hold anything else. So why are you holding this? And it's a tell a little bit, right? Like this thing is going up in value. We think it's going to appreciate faster than X, Y, or Z. We're not trading it for X, Y, or Z. We're keeping, you know, option A here.

I think they almost have to sell or at least have the facade of selling. That's it. Yeah. You can say, we'll sell it in the future. You just never do it. Whatever. Oh yeah, we'll take care of it. It never fucking gets done. It's it. Yeah. Yeah. You can say all sell it in the future. You just never do it. What? Oh, yeah, we'll take care of it. Never fucking gets done. It's funny on the chain. Alice's website like I'm just kind of looking around here for more discussion on this that the chain Alice's website talks about this a little bit, but there's not a clear kind of indication of

whether or not they actually have it pinned down, you know, how much the government has or doesn't have. So it's around 200,000. how much the government has or doesn't have so 200,000 isn't the isn't the other thing too that's worth noting that this probably would have been a lot easier to find out three years ago and Now the Bitcoin is even more mainstream and there's probably people that are working for the White House that are experts in In like UTXO security and whatnot that this is gonna become harder and harder to pin down over time UTXO security and whatnot that this is going to become harder and harder to pin down over time. Like you may never get a clearer picture than the one you have today of what the US government holds because by the way as soon as they start telling you exactly what they hold that's when you know that they're not giving you the full picture. As soon as they start making announcements

about their holdings that's when you know their holdings are are either more or less than what they're letting on. Like everything else. I hope it is what it is. Like it is, like they have 200,000 and they just haven't sold. I would love to hear that. And because Germany, we made fun of them and they deserve to be made fun of for selling. UK, they plan to sell 57,000 Bitcoin

and not to distant future. Do you know the reason why they want to start selling? The UK wants to sell this? No. They desperately need the revenue to balance or to not balance to at least close the gap from the fucking debt that they have. Is that the reason they're giving? They're giving that reason? Yes. Wow. Yes. Five billion pounds. That's tough man. That's really tough. You're going to be getting five billion pounds from this sale if they go today. And that, you know, if you look at it too, because you have these four year election cycles,

the long term planning just really isn't there. You're not thinking about a legacy for 20, 30, 50, 100 years like China is doing in certain cases. You're just looking about this election may be the next one. So selling Bitcoin now to try, just like the fucking, the PCs did in Ontario when they sold or election maybe the next one. So selling Bitcoin now to try just like the fucking the PCs did in Ontario when they sold or at least the 407 for 99 years, right? Like that kind of thinking works great in the short run that this you know for today, but tomorrow Oh fuck we screwed up who cares by then you got reelected. You're happy That's all it is is these four four year election cycles that is causing,

is driving these fucking, these policies and these decisions to sell this Bitcoin. They could hold on to this. And again, this is Bitcoin that they confiscated. The UK confiscated this Bitcoin. It's not like they used an existing power plant to mine Bitcoin. They bought the A6 and that energy could have been potentially sold to the grid to the users. So this is something that's just confiscated somehow. So again, the cost of doing this is minimal. And so they have it now, they've been given this gift and they're just gonna liquidate it.

For the purpose of what? Because they can't balance the budget or they have a difficulty of at least managing the budget. And you think once this has gone tomorrow, are they going to sell next? A bridge? Like they're going to have nothing left at that certain point and there's like not that the UK is going and trending in the right direction it's certainly trending in the wrong direction but this is another reason why it's trending in the wrong direction. Guys fucking don't sell it. Yeah but also don't expect governments to do the same. They're

not thinking for the long term like Len says. Do you want to do one more story and then go over to Notables? Do you want to go to Notables now? No, we'll do one more Notables after. I just want to talk quickly about the mempool. It's still, at least as of yesterday, empty. Like someone's shitting it and they have to shock the pool now. It's empty. And so people, okay, what am I talking about? It's just the amount of Bitcoin transactions in the queue waiting to be processed. There's very little. We've had periods of time where it spikes and goes down, but it's been like this for

quite some time where it hasn't been much. Because there's not very much fees are low, right? Because you're not competing against anybody so you're talking one sat for Vbyte is very common for some transactions especially if you're willing to wait an hour or so they'll go through but now people are talking about let's reduce it even further let's go to 0.1 sats for Vbyte and it's a gimmick I like it I mean but it's really blue wallet is saying that they're going to be doing this in the next release.

They'll be offering up this feature for people like great. But fuck, it's cheap as it is. Like you cheap asses, man. Like it's good to have options. But man, like what the fuck? I just I shake my head when I see this kind of stuff. But it's good to see that options there. ETF effect, I think. Right. Where's all the for sure. Yeah for sure. It's for people that

Wanted to buy Bitcoin exposure somehow They're getting it through an ETF or through micro strategies or whatever and so that's taking a lot of pressure off on-chain transactions So for you know, I guess for that we could say that's it's a good thing. But the sooner you think I think I'm going to say this. Yeah, I still think you want the mempool to have some traffic. But eventually it's going to raise. Yeah, I don't know what the sweet spot is for like the stats per V byte that I'd be looking for, but it should cost something to transact on the network. And I think it's a sign of. See See this is the weird thing, right? When you look at

stories about top signals, oftentimes the top, I think you see more network traffic because people are moving Bitcoin and selling, right? And now, you know, you've had a bit of a peel back here from, you know, what were we at? 122, 123, something like that. And now it's 115, 116,, 17 there behind you. So you had a bit of a peel back and the mempool never it never filled up. It's weird. It's just it's weird. It's another thing that I think you know if you look at glass node or these other data you know predictive data suites of information the things you used to look at to analyze whether or not Bitcoin was sitting atop or the mempool was going to fill up or MVRV was going to hit

a certain ratio or threshold, these things are changing now because of ETFs. They're changing now because of Bitcoin treasury companies. They're changing now because of these new kind of new variables, new moving parts in the ecosystem. And so the equation is not quite as simple to balance with all these other things happening. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to the predictive data stuff in Bitcoin because it was a big part of the system for a long time. Stuff like the rainbow pitchfork, you know, everyone's talked about that.

Does rainbow pitchfork still hold up in an ETF slash lightning slash whatever world? I don't know. I'm not sure. We're going to find out. John, so just John, if you, John, if you, uh, if you go back to 2017, I remember I was trying to get my brother into Bitcoin. John is saying that it's only since like May, February, 2025, it's the death of ordinals that's, you know, causing this. If you go back to 2017, it was like $40 a transaction to send a transaction. And so like

there are times when it was very expensive and, you know, ostensibly the traffic was actually a lot less. But Segwit, was that available in 2017? It was late 2017. Late 2017. So I think maybe Segwit came on. Yeah, Segwit was available then. I think it came on before then.

So maybe they didn't have the addresses all linked up at that point, or if you're using a non-Segwit address. But this has been interesting, right? So yeah, the ord been interesting, right? So I, yeah, the ordinal thing is not to be discounted. I don't want to sound like that's what I'm saying. But there's been ups and downs in this mempool cost for a long time, the transaction cost for a long time.

So we'll see what happens here in the next little while. You know, if we get around to 150, would you expect to see, I shouldn't say if, when we eventually get around to 150, would you expect the SaaS per V-Bytes to significantly rise with that price? I'm not sure that I would. I don't know if there's a correlation between the two. I don't know either, but historically there was, and now there doesn't seem to be. So, I think John's got some, if you're listening, you should, you know, the chat's got some good commentary here. I can't respond to everything, but there's, there is some good discussion about what exactly is causing this and the ups and downs over the last, you know, eight, nine years. So I just,

it's more rationale for people to consolidate their UTXOs. Pablo just said the same thing in that chat. Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. One million is the number I hear is a minimum, but do something that's higher, like five, 10 million or whatever, even 100 million. Just keep thinking about 100 million. So I don't know whatever fucking works for you. Just enjoy whatever. Let's go some notables here.

So if you're on audio, come back tomorrow. If you're on video live with us, then hang in. We're going to jump over to some notable stories and Len claims to be introducing a new segment. I'm not sure, but it sounds like it's going to be good. So hang in and we'll see you over there.