The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Tony Yazbeck - The Fiat System Doesn't Deserve Your Trust | The CBP (Bitcoin Podcast)

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESThis week we welcome Tony Yazbeck, co-founder of The Bitcoin Way, to the show. Tony has a very interesting story how his wealth was wiped out overnight as a result of a rug pull by the Lebanese banking system. A lot of folks would walk away from this bitter and unable to rebuild, but Tony took a different approach. He has learned about Bitcoin and has been educating people why Bitcoin is needed now more than ever. If you wish to reach out to Tony, you can find him on X at https://x.com/V4BTC or check out his website at https://www.thebitcoinway.com/From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord: https://discord.com/invite/YgPJVbGCZX A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

Friends and enemies, welcome to yet another edition of the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast. I'm Len and today is going to be an interview with Tony Yazbek from the BitcoinWay. And I did this interview about a month ago with Tony, so it took some time to release it. But the gist of it is that Tony has a very interesting story about living in Lebanon and while in Lebanon he was doing he was very prosperous had all his money in the banks but simply overnight he lost it all because the banking system went all tits up and as a result he's now a proponent of bitcoin and he's trying to spread the word as much as possible. I would suggest everybody take a listen to this.

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And by doing that, using our code and opening count and providing necessary information and funding it, you get $21 added to your account. We're the best in the game. We love them and that's where we buy our Bitcoin. And welcome ladies and gentlemen, I'm with Tony from the Bitcoin way. This is gonna be a fun talk to discuss about Bitcoin adoption, sovereignty. And you know what? More than anything, the story that Tony has is very interesting.

Tony, I want to thank you for coming on the show. How are you, buddy? I'm great, Len. How are you, man? Thank you for having me. I appreciate the invite. An absolute pleasure. I'm wonderful.

Thank you very much. Like, you know, I saw you on several podcasts. You've been on Safe Dean Show and several others. So it's a pleasure to have you on our humble show, the Canadian Bitcoiners podcast, discuss yourself, your company, your journey and so forth. So thank you very much for coming on Tony. Tony though, before we go any further, I just want to introduce you to our audience. Maybe you can give a little bit of background who you are and maybe how you

came upon Bitcoin so that way people understand where you are coming from. Sure, sure. I'm one of the founders of the bitcoinway.com and I've been in tech my entire life, cybersecurity for over 25 years, in Bitcoin for a little bit over eight now. And in the Bitcoin way is going on its third year almost. And we've come a long way since it began.

My journey into Bitcoin unfortunately comes from a horrific place, which is essentially my entire life was blown up and stolen on October 2019 back in Lebanon when the thieves in the central banks and the government and all of these crooks decided to steal everybody's life savings and to leave everybody with absolutely nothing. An event that literally took place overnight. You know, you go to bed one night thinking you're financially set and then you wake up the next morning with whatever's left in your pocket to your name. And so when you go through something like this

and you actually make it to the other side, you make sure you get answers to many, many questions and it puts you on a path to pretty much cement that something like this never ever happens to you again. And this is what eventually led me into Bitcoin and brought me to where I'm sitting right here talking to you in empowering as many folks as I can possibly reach to equip themselves

with the knowledge to prevent something like what happened to me from happening to them because I genuinely believe it's coming. It's what took place in Lebanon five years ago is not isolated to Lebanon. This is very specific to the mechanics of fiat currencies, which is a global disaster. No matter where you live,

no matter what your local money is, it's all garbage. It's all part of the same criminal cartel that prints this toilet paper out of thin air while you have to go slave for it from morning to night and have to be taxed depending where you live, you know, sometimes over 50% of it. So you're essentially working half the year or more for free, you know, for something that has no value and that's stealing from you in real time, whether it's in taxes, whether it's in inflation, whatever it may be, it's like a complete waste of time and energy.

And so there's a lot to unpack in this, but ultimately that is what brought me into Bitcoin. And the more I learn about it and the more I interact with really good folks in this space, the stronger the conviction becomes. And this is what fuels me every morning, is to wake up, speak to new people, get them to leave the corrupt system and find their way into something that they can genuinely own and use to build the futures that they want. Now to give some context, in October 2019, I don't want it to give your exact age, but roughly how old were you when that event took place so they could put into context exactly what stage of life you are, would that have? I was in my mid-40s. So yeah, I was essentially retired,

you know, or so I thought I was retired until, like I said, I went to bed one night after a night out with some friends and woke up the next morning to the news that the banks have seized everybody's savings account, all credit cards no longer functioning, nobody answering the phone at the bank. There's nobody at the bank. When I went to see for you know, for myself, there were hordes of people outside the doors trying to bust in absolute pandemonium. Not a pretty sight, not a pretty sight at all. And so actually it was very dangerous to linger

around there because people were just going crazy. Can you imagine you wake up one morning and you realize that your entire life has been rug pulled from you? So what do you do in a situation like this? So that is what I witnessed. And so it's a horrific, horrific movie that I don't wish upon anyone. In terms of capital control, has Lebanon imposed any upon their citizens to prevent from capital being leaving the country, so to speak?

Yeah, of course. And this is the worst part. This is what, you know, this is, they imposed capital controls for the population, but yet during the same times that capital controls were on, there were billions of dollars being siphoned out of the country, belonging to the actual thieves who stole the money, like all the corrupt governments, politicians, the central bankers, all of their funds were being funneled out during that same time where supposedly capital controls were in place. In fact, if you had like a million bucks in a Lebanese bank account, account, you had to beg them to give you $400 a month. Okay? And if that wasn't bad enough, if you had US dollars in your Lebanese bank account, they illegally converted it to the local

currency, which then hyper inflated to oblivion, leaving your purchasing power from a million dollars to a hundred. That's I would say sounds criminal. I don't want to say it is because I don't want to get in trouble but it just one may make an argument that's criminal in terms of their their actions. Impacting people like you were retired you were still young enough that you could still do other ventures which you are doing right now with the bitcoinway.com. We'll talk about that in a moment,

but think of all the people out there that worked their whole life and invested all their time, their effort, their energy into the country and all of a sudden, as you mentioned, just poof, gone. But with respect to Bitcoin, you were in it for about eight years. So there was a little bit of overlap

between you still working, or at least the banking system still functioning as intended in Lebanon and you understanding Bitcoin. I wanna know how you came across Bitcoin, because everybody's journey is different. I wanna hear yours. Well, the thing is I came across Bitcoin very early on in 2012, but like many dummies,

I also ignored it thinking, whatever, I didn't have time for it. Yeah. So then I picked it up again later on. I started bumping into it a lot more like in 2015, 16, but again, just maybe a little bit more attention, but nothing too serious until that disaster took place. And it took me a very long time, honestly, to come out of the mental anguish and the mindset that something like this puts you through. It took me about a year.

It was very heavy depression. I didn't want to talk or see anyone or do anything. And by some miracle, I made it to find myself in a position where I regained some sort of energy where one day I just sat in front of a computer not looking for anything in particular. And somehow I found my way onto an Andreas Antopoulos video where he was giving a little speech about Bitcoin. And for the first time, I remember I froze on that video because I had to listen to it more than once. I thought, come on, man, this can't be true. And after hearing it multiple times, it really woke me up.

And I think this is when everything started shaping up again. I regained the smile on my face and I didn't want to give myself false hopes either. So I started diving deeper into this just to make sure that it wasn't another like get rich scheme. Yes, I've heard about it in the past. People have spoken to me about it, but I've never really studied it. And so since Bitcoin is technology, it falls right into my playground. And so I had to blow it up myself to see if I could, if I could destroy it. Well, then, you know, it's, it's, it's garbage. It's not worth anything. But of course I failed and I'm like, all right, well, maybe I'm not in the right mindset.

Let me ask some other people, maybe you have some smarter folks out there that can do better than I can. And then I realized, you know, that many other people failed. And ultimately I found out that governments have been trying to destroy it for several years. And even them with all their infinite resources, they failed. So I'm like, if these losers couldn't do it, like, what am I going to do? Right. And so once that was out of the way, then I got like a resurgence of life starting to flow through my veins again.

And for the first time, you know, in like many months, I felt hopeful. You know, I really started feeling hopeful and I, some excitement came back to my life and I started watching more videos, asking more questions, becoming more involved, getting into the tech, trying things out, trying to break them unsuccessfully. And that's what got me into Bitcoin. This is really the start of my journey. And the more I understood it, the more the excitement ran through my veins and the more people I wanted to talk to and explain you know, explain this to and sort of like fast forward everything in my head into their

heads in about 30 seconds, which of course doesn't work. But in the moment, you know, you're so overtaken by this excitement for hope, right? Especially coming from where I just came from, where, you life was essentially ripped off from you, you wanted to grab onto something this powerful. And so it was an extremely strong motivator that got me back up on my feet. I mean, it was thanks to Bitcoin. Otherwise, honestly, I'm not sure we would be sitting here

having this conversation because the dark places that something like this puts you through is unspeakable and I don't wish it upon anyone. Yeah, and it's hard for me to relate because obviously I'm not in that state and your story could be replicated all throughout the world. This is possible. It's very possible this could happen in a lot of Western democracies, especially in a not too distant future. So people should take heed to what you're saying. In terms of the on

ramps to Bitcoin during that time in Lebanon, were there any that were shut down or was there still an opportunity to buy Bitcoin given the fact that there were capital controls that they've instituted? So I want to hear your story. No, I wasn't. I wasn't buying anything. You couldn't access anything in Lebanon. You had access to no financial institution in Lebanon. Everything was closed and shut down. Nothing was working. You couldn't buy a KitKat with your debit card. Nothing was working. Zero. And so you had to resort to whatever creative ideas that ran through your head to make ends meet. And so it was literally peer to peer. The fact that Bitcoin is electronic, peer to peer money, there's no better proof of

work than seeing it in action in a situation like this where there is no other alternative except for peer to peer. And so this is how you started to earn a little bit of somewhat of a revenue stream in Bitcoin. And keep in mind, the little that we earned, the volatility was still ongoing. So it's not like it was, okay, I'm earning Bitcoin and life is good now. No, it was you're earning Bitcoin, okay, you're earning some form of income, but you still have to go through that volatility, which was ongoing. I mean, Bitcoin back in 2019, I can't remember what exactly it was, but it was a turbulent up and down. It wasn't as more or less sure as it is today. So back then it was whatever it was, but I

didn't care because there was nothing else. It was that or nothing. And so, you know, when you see it working well like this, and you know, of course, there's not many people that knew about it or even understood what it is, but you know but in dire situations, you become very open and receptive to things that you never considered before. And so the conversation with a lot more people became easier because they're all in the same shithole I am. Let's figure out a solution to find something positive out of this. And you know, you do what you have to do. And eventually I left Lebanon, you know, and never, never, never looked back. You know, it's like it-

When was that roughly? I mean, did the year, maybe if you're able to provide that information, I'm curious what, when you roughly left Lebanon. Yeah, it's about, about like a year, a year and a bit, you know, after after that whole catastrophe and I never looked back. It broke my heart to do this because I'm Lebanese and Lebanon will always live in my heart, but as long as that garbage is still running the place, there's no country, there's no hope.

So for me, the separation of money and state can't come soon enough, especially in countries that are infected by such cancerous corruption. They need to be cleaned out. Otherwise there's no other hope. You can't just replace one politician by another thinking it's going to solve the problem. They're all part of the same garbage. So they all have to go. The whole system needs to be formatted and replaced by one that cannot be corrupted. And that is specifically what Bitcoin is about. This was created. Whoever created this, Satoshi Nakamoto, he understood this. And like many people, like Hayek said, you have to strip that power

of money through a sly roundabout way because you obviously cannot go to war with a war machine. They have unlimited resources. You don't. So that's out of the question. So what's your alternative? Well, you have to be smarter than they are by introducing something that they cannot stop. And that's something is Bitcoin, you know, and since since I come from the tech

world, the whole Bitcoin concept reminded me of Napster. Do you remember Napster a while back? Absolutely. Yeah, when people were file sharing music files like all day long and the whole music industry went crazy and they lobbied until they shut down Napster and they declared it a massive victory that they, you know, they won the war on music piracy. And then a week later, somebody introduced Torrance and completely blew up that entire investigation. So when it's peer to peer, it's extremely hard to stop.

And so to this day, with all the money spent and all the efforts put, file sharing, movie sharing, music sharing is still at an all time high. So if you can't stop that meaningless sharing, you honestly think you're going to stop peer to peer money, something that is like the lifeline of 8 billion people, once they clue in that this option is available to them, it's never going to happen.

So when I hear stories now that, oh, the government's going to stop it, or no, they're going to ban it, or no, they're going to do this and that, I just laugh. I'm like, the day they can stop the sun from shining or the wind from blowing is maybe the day you can stop the sun from shining or the wind from blowing is maybe the day you can stop a peer to peer transaction. And the more time goes by, there's a lot of

tools being built in the Bitcoin ecosystem. A lot of privacy tools are coming on about. And the more they attack it, the more they empower and embolden people to develop tools to prevent what happened. So the attacks are almost like a gift in disguise, right? Because now you know what the weaknesses are. So you build tools to account for them and prevent them going forward. So, but you have to understand the tech. And most people unfortunately don't come from that world.

And it's very hard for them to wrap their brains around this and I understand that. But eventually, you know, circumstance, life situations, pain will reach everyone because, you know, the fiat ponzi is on its last legs no matter where you're living. I mean the dollar, yes, it's the last cockroach to die but it is on its way out because you know it's the global reserve and it's going to zero. There's no, it's a mathematical guarantee because if you look at the US debt over 36 trillion dollars, that debt has to be paid somehow, right? Who's going to pay it? How are they going to pay? And in are they going to pay it? And in order to keep the system from collapsing in the next five minutes, they have to keep printing.

But this time, the amount that's required to print to keep up with the interest on 36 trillion is enough to bankrupt the entire country. So when that day comes comes and it is coming, somebody who has a modest income, money in the bank, there's one of two things that's going to happen. Either he's going to realize that he can't afford anything because when he walks into a supermarket,

the chicken costs 50 bucks, and he's still making whatever, $2,000 a month, right? So there's no chicken anymore. And eventually that price is going to keep going up and up and up until you can't buy anything. There's either that that's going to happen, or there's going to be some sort of fabricated cyber attack, some sort of excuse to shut people out of their bank accounts and to somehow let it run for a few days so that the pain really amplifies and then to miraculously come up with a solution that will make everybody whole, but you're not really going to get your dollars back.

You're going to get this electronic dollar, which is effectively the central bank digital currency that, of of course all governments and central banks are dying to implement. And if you get stuck in a system like that, well, in my opinion, consider your life finished because at that point, none of your decisions will be yours anymore. Absolutely not a single one of them. You will be tied to a digital ID, which is attached to a scoring system. So if you're a good little puppy, you get a tied to a digital ID which is attached to a scoring system. So if you're a good little puppy, you get a point to eat and travel and do whatever you want. And if you're a bad little puppy, well, you get nothing.

CBDC is a topic that myself and my co-host Joey talk about every so often. And I'm of the camp that at CBDC, at least a retail version of it is still some time away. We're not imminent to have this rolled out, at least in Western democracies. I don't see United States rolling it out anytime soon, but I'm curious if, because given your background with cybersecurity and IT,

do you have any idea when you think something may be rolled out globally, or at least on these Western nations on a CBDC level for retail? Because, yeah, you seem to have an opinion on this, and I would love to hear it. Well, the advantage that we have with governments is that they're not usually good with technology. So things usually take considerably longer for them to do. And when they do it, it's not really done well. So on that front, you can think of it as sort of like the silver silver lining. But I am of very strong opinion that they are actively developing

something like this because they have to. How else are you going to stay in power if you don't control the money? But the problem is when something like Bitcoin exists, you can't get rid of it, especially not now after 16 years where it's become so decentralized and so powerful that no nation state can stop it no matter what it says and no matter what it wants to do. It just can't. it no matter what it says and no matter what it wants to do. It just can't. What they can do and what many times they've attempted to do was sort of control the narrative around Bitcoin, claiming it's for terrorists, money launderers, and all sorts of rubbish like that, to sway the people from even considering it as an option. That's what they're doing. It may

work for a portion of the population that simply doesn't bother to do the work and to debunk this nonsense, but thankfully there's a lot of folks that are paying attention. attention and that number is growing like noticeably every single day and the more it grows, the harder it gets to get rid of this and eventually like you know the slowly then suddenly it's going to happen. When that suddenly happened, I couldn't tell you I don't have a crystal ball, but I'm fairly certain it's going to be very, very soon. Because just like how the internet began, you know, it was isolated to a few little things. There weren't many apps available to it. So only people in the tech world understood it and used it.

And then poof, almost like seemingly like overnight over a weekend, everybody was more people were buying things online, everybody had an internet connection, everybody was doing stuff, the apps exploded all over the place, it became like a whole new world. And so the same thing is about to happen to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a protocol. The way we see Bitcoin now in its current state, it's like having, you know, that one, you know, email application back when the internet was, was, was like discovered. So imagine when we have the explosion of apps and, you know, services on the Bitcoin ecosystem, what's that going to look like? Knowing that no one, no human, no living soul on the planet can manipulate the supply, can control it, regulate it, do whatever they want. They cannot do anything other than use it. And when people realize this, that now they can actually own something that is 100% theirs, there's no stopping that train. Remember Lynn Alden, famous, her famous words, there's no stopping that train.

And that is 100% certainty that that train is about to go full throttle and there's no going back. It's incredible to, if you could wrap your head around it, it's just trying to get people to wrap their head around this. I'm wondering in terms of having them cross that bridge from being a pre-coiner to a bitcoiner, what would you say is the best way to do it? Is it through education or do you

think the majority of people just have to go through the pain such as you've gone through in your life before they realize, oh crap, there's an alternative here. But at that point, a lot of their wealth may potentially have been evaporated. So which is which of the two is probably more likely to envelop more people into Bitcoin? That's a very good question. And the answer is it depends on where they live. You know, like, for example, one of the biggest disadvantages for people in Europe and in the West, in North America, is that the financial system is for the more smart functioning finds. So they don't notice anything negative about it other than, okay, prices are becoming more

expensive. There's a lot more people complaining about that, but your PayPal account still works, your Venmo works, you go to the bank, you can put it in your car, take out some money and all that stuff. So they don't see an immediate need for an alternative. That is the problem. That is something that is working against them. And I think the legacy system is trying very hard to keep that going as much as possible so that these people don't realize that there is an exit out of it. Okay, they'll complain, they'll suffer, things will be expensive, but they'll still be in that shitty system.

The key here is not to have a bank run of people dumping the dollar, any fiat currencies like overnight and exiting for something like Bitcoin. That is something that they are petrified about, but it is happening, not like in a bank run style, but it is happening at an accelerated rate. People are, if they're not putting all of their life savings, they're starting to put a lot more of it in this Bitcoin savings because now they understand, okay, it's a store of value. Whether they understand it in full or not is besides the point.

They are just like copying someone that they trust knows what they're doing and they're just following along, which is fine because they still benefit at the end of the day, right? And hopefully with enough time, they too will understand why this was such a big deal. But if you compare it to people living in, like horrible conditions, like countries that are governed by tyrannical governments, and they haven't had access to a bank account and things of that sort,

you don't need to convince them. They already know, you just have to tell them how to use it. And within 30 seconds, they're onboarded and like gone. So if you look at places like Nigeria, they have one of the highest adoptions of Bitcoin there. I think it's over 90%. I mean, I learned from them that you can actually transact in Bitcoin without the internet.

Originally, I had no idea. I was like mind blown when I found this. They did it in Nigeria because over there, they were so financially abused for so long that when something like Bitcoin became available, they all jumped on it. The government tried all sorts of things to push out a CBDC over there, the E-Nairobi. They threatened them. They restricted them to $40 a month, I believe, in cash withdrawals. They tried all sorts of the stick approach. None of it worked. And eventually they abandoned the project of the CBDC because they went nowhere with it. And so this is what I think is going to happen everywhere.

I mean, like how stupid do you have to be to know you have these two options and willingly take the shitty one, the one that deliberately enslaves you in a system that is of zero benefit to you, right? Like you have to be, there must be something wrong with you if you deliberately choose that over something that you entirely own and that you don't need anybody's permission to

use. Right? As long as you're not breaking any legitimate rules. Right? Not these concocted bullshit, you know, rules and rules and regulation that are made up on the fly sometimes to serve a certain narrative. Those should never be respected, completely ignored, because this is not what the law is supposed to be, right? The law is supposed to be neutral. It's not rules for me and rules for you. It's rules for everyone. So the reason we don't have this is because you have a group that controls the money printer

and has somehow successfully, very successfully managed to dupe the entire planet for a very long time to believe that this garbage paper is actually money and that we need them to use it. Right. But over time, things progressively got worse and worse and worse up until 2008 when the whole financial explosion took place. And what did they do? They bailed out the banks. All the crooks and criminals went free.

They were reimbursed as if nothing happened. And who got destroyed? Everyone. The peasants, the peons, the insignificant nobodies of the world, right? So when that happened, whoever Satoshi was, obviously, he's like enough is enough enough and he put out Bitcoin into the world just as the middle finger to that system, you know, telling them all right game over now and thankfully it worked because nobody was paying attention to it when it first came out, whatever Bitcoin's fucking nothing internet money money, Mickey Mouse money. So nobody was paying attention to it. Thankfully, fast forward a few years, decentralized enough,

now it's too late. Okay, so everything happens for a reason. Like all of this bad stuff had to happen bad stuff had to happen for us to get to where we are today with Bitcoin. So I genuinely believe this now, especially after what I went through, because if I didn't go through that absolute nightmare, I probably wouldn't be talking to you right now, you know, with viewing the world with the lens that I view it with now. Now I understand how this whole Ponzi is put together, how we've been duped since day one, how my parents were duped, their parents were duped before them, and that's why you think everything is normal in that shitty system. So it takes effort. In my case, it was the most horrific, painful situation, a lot of folks that I grew up

with aren't here anymore, because they couldn't they couldn't handle it. That's how bad it is. And so when you serve, that's what I said at the beginning, when you survive something like this, it changes you. There's no going back knowing that you have an option now that you don't have to leave and revert. And that's what Bitcoin is. But it's new. For some people, it sounds too good to be true. That's the problem. Because on the surface, that's what I thought as well. I'm like, hold on a second. This is like, too crazy. But I had to spend the hundreds and thousands of hours of reading and studying and asking questions

to eventually with even with my background, I had like a million doubts. So imagine someone who doesn't come from the tech world, what they must think. They're like so far away from this, they'll like they wouldn't give it sometimes five minutes of their time because it's like forget it's never going to happen. So they cut the conversation before it even begins until they run into a problem where they're completely either bankrupt or can't afford anything and now they're just desperate for some sort of answer that makes sense. just desperate for some sort of answer that makes sense.

One of the most powerful things I tell people is the scarcity of Bitcoin and the 21 million that could ever be mined in its totality. And once people understand that, because they do understand hard money and just even though we don't live in a hard money system, people still understand what is hard money once they figure out that Bitcoin there's a scarcity to it it opens people's eyes and then they could easily grasp it or more easily grasp it than previously so I'm a big proponent of learning from others and

I try to do as much as possible. I don't want to go through the pain that other people have gone through. And I hopefully I'm doing it the right way and I'm not going to get rug pulled in the end. But by doing this, I think I could preserve my wealth and still do what I have to do to shield myself to all the pain that others have gone. So I hope people listen to your story and take this to heart, because what's going to happen, what has happened to you potentially is going to happen to them in a not too distant future. And people need to fight this and realize this. And there's one tool that has been released in

the past year in the United States and Canada, we had it for longer, is a spot Bitcoin ETF. And I think that's almost like a last ditch effort to try to keep people in the system. They're getting exposure to the price of Bitcoin, so to speak, still denominated in USD or whatever currencies are operating in, but still you're in that system that you have to beg to get your money out.

And I look at this, the ETF, and in one way it's good. I mean, it helps number go up. It potentially might help Bitcoin adoption. But as a whole, I'm looking at this. This is probably not a good idea for Bitcoin. I mean, I wanna hear your thoughts on these spot Bitcoin ETFs. Look, the Bitcoin ETF was certainly one of the best advertisements for Bitcoin in general.

The Bitcoin ETF is absolutely not Bitcoin, but like you said, it's exposure to Bitcoin. And one of the main advantages that they've had is simply legitimized Bitcoin in general, in the eyes of so many people that wouldn't even give it 30 seconds of their time to listen to what this thing is. So it brought a lot of money into it. And of course, when you have such a big figure like Larry Fink from BlackRock, despite all his past history, that's besides the point, but a lot of people listen to him when he speaks. So when he's saying Bitcoin is the next big thing, whether you understand it or not, because

he said it, all of a sudden now it's a good idea and the money will flow into it. My hope is that eventually at some point, probably not all, but just a big enough percent of these people will actually do the work to see, okay, what the hell it is that we just bought into here, to see what it is, and to finally click that this is not the version of Bitcoin that they need, they want the real version of Bitcoin that they can actually withdraw in Bitcoin and hold it themselves. Since they cannot get rid of Bitcoin, my opinion, the ETF was a way to concoct a creative mechanism to use Bitcoin to keep the suckers, the uninformed trapped in the legacy system using Bitcoin as the bait. That is what I think the Bitcoin ETF is. Come it's Bitcoin, you'll become rich. Rich with what? Rich in toilet paper. That's debasing from you on every day.

But if you're an ETF, you can't decide anything. You know, if one day they change the rules or don't like you for whatever reason, poof, there you go. And too bad what happens to you then. That's what the ETF is. Now in some countries outside the US, they've gone about the ETF approach a bit more intelligently. They've introduced the in-kind ETFs where if you go into the ETF, if you want to withdraw it in Bitcoin, you can. They don't have this in the United States, at least not yet. I don't know if given enough international pressure or just pressure in general, just the evolution of things, that one day they will introduce it. If they do that, that would be a crazy bullish move because then you've got

potentially billions and trillions of dollars that are locked in the legacy system that have an immediate exit. Which ties back into what I was saying is that hopefully a significant amount of people that are in the ETF initially take the time to learn what Bitcoin is and as soon as that possibility is presented to jump on it because that is the only way you are going to benefit from the Bitcoin revolution. Because Bitcoin was created for self-custody. It's the first time ever, ever in the history of humanity that you can actually own your money.

It's never happened before. We've never seen it. This is why there's no reference point. So whenever people talk and make predictions and whatever, it's at best a guess as how things are going to play out because again, we've never seen it. But those that understand the technology have a more accurate view of how things are going to play out. Like I was telling you earlier, peer to peer cannot be stopped. You literally have to shut down the entire internet forever to stop a peer to peer transaction. And if you do that, then Bitcoin is the least of your troubles because then nothing will

work. You will have, you know, you want to see civil war, world war and all that, shut off the internet for an extended period of time. See what happens. Nothing will work. So I'm not concerned about that scenario. Peer to peer, there's a million ways around. Somebody trying to put like a roadblock in front of you,

there's a million ways around it instantly. That's why I'm saying it's even like retarded to even think you can put an end to it. So once you understand this, your bullishness and optimism about the Bitcoin network becomes limitless. And so the mission becomes to teach people about this so that hopefully when they understand how it works, then they register that, oh shit, you know, they weren't kidding.

You know, we can actually own this thing and we can do whatever we want with it without anybody's permission, without any intermediary. Like when could you hold your money without an intermediary before Bitcoin? Never. Yeah. Yeah, agree. Right. Never. So that's one. When can you exchange it with someone else without an intermediary? Never. Bitcoin is these three things at the same time. It's a store of value, it's a medium of exchange, and it's a unit of account. We've never had something like this. So each one of these elements on their own has monumental value.

Combine them in one unit, look at the multiplier effect. What do you think this is going to, how is this going to change the world? It's absolutely insane because at some point, all the money in the world is going to realize that the best return on investment right now is Bitcoin. But those crazy returns aren't going to last because Bitcoin is like a black hole that's going to suck everything into it. And once it's done killing all the fiat currencies because you know, no one's going to want that garbage anymore Once it's done doing that then its returns are no longer these Astronomical numbers that you know, we are witnessing now we're seeing them now because we're transitioning from you know Decades of one system into a brand new one that the universe has never seen before

of one system into a brand new one that the universe has never seen before. So for sure there's going to be explosive. That's why when I have conversations with people, I tell them, if you're in Bitcoin today, consider yourself one of the luckiest human beings to have ever lived because this is history in the making in real time. Somebody born a hundred years from now, Bitcoin is going to be as normal as the internet for them. It's nothing special. So if they take the time to study history, to see where the origins of this money came from, they're going to be blown away. It's almost like talking to a survivor from some world war. It's you know, like you want to hear the stories, what they went through, what they saw, how things played out. So living today, 2025 and witnessing,

you know, the astronomical upgrading of earth, of humanity into something like this is priceless. I call it like the ninth or tenth wonder of the world. You know, this will be, I think, the most impactful invention, innovation humanity has ever seen. Very powerful. In fact, give me a few minutes. I'm gonna just go to my other computer

and buy some more Bitcoin because I'm just so- Yeah, go ahead. Even more, even more. You mentioned self-custody and that is a very incredible tool that's available for people. And so I'm curious then when somebody on boards onto Bitcoin and they're new to it and they're just understanding it. In your opinion, do you show them self custody options at that moment?

Or do you wait a little while for them even just to grasp it a little further? Because it's not that hard in my opinion. 12 or 24 words, man, it doesn't seem all that. I used to remember phone numbers. I still remember phone numbers from my childhood. So I mean, if you think of it in that respect, it's not that hard, but still people for whatever reason,

they look at it, 12 or 24 words, this is challenging. I mean, so what's your opinion on when people should start to do self-custody? I absolutely agree with you. Self-custody is not hard, it really isn't. It's just new, it's not rocket science or nuclear physics, but a lot of people have the impression that it's like this because what they do know is that if they make a mistake,

they're going to lose their money, which is true. It's a valid concern. There's no denying this. But if you have a good teacher that can take all of this information and break it down into bite-sized pieces that a 10-year-old can comprehend, anyone can do Bitcoin self-custody. I am a firm believer that there is almost no human being out there that cannot learn this unless there's some sort of serious condition that prevents you from learning this. Besides that, there's no reason why you can't learn this. If you can drive a car, that is a million times more complicated than learning Bitcoin self-custody. But you need a good teacher with solid experience that is capable of translating whatever complexities that you think exist

into plain English. And this is what we do. This is what I do on a daily basis. We take this big monster that you think self-custody is and we turn it into cotton candy, right? And we break it down into bite-sized pieces and before you know it, everyone is doing it with the confidence of doing something they've been doing their entire life, irrespective of the amount of money involved. That is my goal, is to make you comfortable doing self-custody, sending, receiving, where the money doesn't bother you. Whether you're dealing with $100 or 100 million bucks,

it's like having a cup of coffee. You're 60 seconds, you're in out and you're done. There's no reason to break a sweat or have a heart attack because it's a big number on the screen. Absolutely no reason. It's the same 60 second transaction, regardless of what it is. But to get to that level, of course you have to master the skills to do it.

And they can be taught, we do this. We do this exceptionally well, because most of the people that we work with, are of a certain age group, and people of the younger generation, which generally speaking tend to be more tech comfortable. We're dealing with folks that, you know, they're comfortable on a computer, but don't come from the tech world. And that's fine. Right. We don't rush anybody. We're patient with everyone. There are no stupid questions during any of our consults. People are welcome to ask whatever it is that they want, even if they think it's silly, we welcome them to ask it anyhow, because that is the only way you're going to remove whatever apprehensions they have about this completely. And that is the objective here, is to make you as comfortable with self-custody as you are having a cup

of coffee or a glass of water, because really it's not that hard. For people wanting to know a little bit more, it's the bitcoinway.com. I want to talk a lot about that right now, in fact. In terms of the level of the services you provide to people, it's primarily consultations and understanding Bitcoin and providing them information. The first question I have is, well, number one, how long has the Bitcoin way.com been up and running? Because that that's going into our third year now.

And in terms of how many people are coming to you and asking for questions, questions to be answered or service, Has there been, uh, has it been almost parabolic in a way in 2024 given the price of Bitcoin went up significantly then? Yeah, we've seen a noticeable increase in interest in self custody, which makes me a lot more bullish, you know, because now we're getting a lot more questions from people that have never considered Bitcoin before. Intelligent questions. Before we used to get questions, yeah, how do I trade it? What price do I buy it to sell

it later? And what have you. We don't get these questions anymore, or at least not as much. More the questions like, all right, well, I have this, how do I make sure I don't lose it? Those are the types of questions that we get now. And for me, that's already a massive win. It's a massive change just 365 days before that compared to now. And so these are the little signs that I look for because it shows like the tides are changing. And once somebody gets onboarded properly and they understand it, well well what do you think they're going to do they're going to go tell everyone they care about about this and since it's coming from someone that they trust it's an easier path to do it for them as well and so

the domino effect you know starts to which is really nice. I mean, for me, it really makes my day when people tell me that they're doing self-custody almost like they've been doing it their whole life because that's the world that I want to see. I don't want to see a world anymore where people are dependent on corrupt entities for abusing their time and energy. And so every human being that you can bring into self-custodying their own time and energy is an exponential win for humanity. I'm going to talk about self-custodying in just a sec, but I'm going to just veer off course very briefly. energy is an exponential win for humanity. So I'm going to talk about self-custody in just a sec, but I'm going to just veer off course very briefly.

The signposts people have to understand here, and you said it, people coming to you looking for services, primarily are ages between 50 and 80. Those are the people that typically have the most amount of wealth. If you look at the broad spectrum where wealth is spread out through age groups. But secondly is that if you look at, you were saying that a lot more people are coming to your services, the Bitcoin way and asking for some help.

That's another bullish sign. These are two signposts people have to understand. This thing is picking up steam and there's no stopping it. But self custody, I just want to go back to that because I'm a big proponent of self custody. I try to get everybody on board that as much as possible. So in terms of a signing device, I mean, this is something,

not sure if you want to talk about this, but I'm a big fan of cold card. I haven't used a seed signer, but I understand it. It's probably as good as a cold card, but I can't say for certain because I haven't used it. What options do you provide people in terms of what, how do you steer them in terms of what they should be using for signing their transactions? Because these are new folks coming into Bitcoin, probably don't have a tech background. So I'm curious how, where you steer them. Yeah, that's a very good question. We're very strict about the criteria

that we take when it comes to this. With regards to the hardware, we only deal with and recommend with open source or verifiable source Bitcoin-only cold wallets that are fully air gapped. If they connect to a computer, we don't recommend or touch them. Doesn't really matter what the brand is. If it touches a computer, you'll never hear anyone from our team speak of it, never.

So our seed phrase is, we configure seed phrase offline and the seed phrase is secured and kept offline forever. It'll never connect to a computer because we're of the mindset that if there's a 0.001% of something going wrong, we won't take that risk if there's an option not to do it. It's as simple as that.

And of course, we deploy advanced configurations and setups to all of these things to account for extreme scenarios. Let's say your seed words were to get compromised, you wouldn't need to freak out that your money would be stolen, it wouldn't be. Same thing pertaining to all of the hardware that you're using.

Like if it all blows up tomorrow or stops working, you wouldn't need to freak out either that, you know, you've lost your money, you wouldn't have lost your money. Or worse, you wouldn't need to put yourself in any compromising, physically compromising position to go after this stuff thinking that you are going to lose your money. You wouldn't be. So all of this is part of our comprehensive training. Like I said, we're very thorough about this. We treat everyone exactly the same. So no matter what your tech background, we will train you Navy SEAL style, but in a very fun and simple way until you learn everything you need to do so that you become like your own soldier in self-cust custody, so to speak.

So you will know everything, all the moving parts that are involved, how they interact, where to secure them, how to manage them, everything required, UTXO management, disaster control, all of these things we cover. No matter what your background is, we take you through the process

in a way that you will understand. So it's a lot of fun. Like we So it's a lot of fun. Like we really make it a lot of fun. No one has had a bad experience with us so far, thankfully. And at the end of it, we have, you're building an army of sovereign people by educating them, by giving them the tools that they need to take care of themselves, their families,

and hopefully they can take this knowledge and keep passing it on forward forever. I love that answer. I'm with you 100%. You either have to look at the source verifiable, open source, keys never touching the internet, never have your signing device hooked up to a computer. 100%. That's the way to go. That's the way I deal. In fact, I've been onboarding a bunch of folks over here in greater Toronto area. And even people that are not very tech savvy, I got them onboard the cold card, they rolled the dice, they figured it out, did it right. It's possible. I'm living proof. I'm a shitty teacher and I could teach people how to do it. But in terms of the cost, because it's 30 minute consultation, I believe it's free

with your service. What's the range of the dollar in terms of if they're going to continue using your service so people understand how much it is that they're going to be in for? We don't have a fixed price over anything. Everything is personalized based on what everybody needs. I mean, we have a whole range of pricing, but the thing is we don't accept fiat. We are 100% Bitcoin. So we don't have any fiat on-ramps. All our payments in and out are in Bitcoin 100%. Love it.

So yeah, so we put our money where our mouths are. We stand by the words that we preach. And so things vary, you know, from a few hundred bucks to a few thousand bucks, depending on what you want. I mean, our services are broken down into three priorities, right? Priority one is protecting the money, Bitcoin and proper self-custody. Once that's out of the way, we have priority two, stage two, is more of the cybersecurity side of things, which is protecting the devices that you use to

manage that money. Make sure VPNs, privacy DNS servers, many cybersecurity services running to protect these devices at full time. Privacy, de-Google phones, we assist with all of that. And then stage three is protecting the individual. That's where our plan B residency to citizenship program services kick in. If you're not happy where you're living and you wanna find somewhere that's more Bitcoin friendly, freedom friendly, that respects and values you and your family as human beings,

well, we can definitely assist with all of it because that all falls under the self sovereignty umbrella. But you know, step one generally is, you know, protecting the money because once that's out of the way, everybody's sleeping well at night knowing that that's safe and sound. So all the rest becomes an easier conversation. It's not a race at that point. You know, we take things progressively, but we make sure that we maintain, you know, very long term relationships with everybody that we work with and whatever they need. I mean, you can think of us as like your, you know, your backup cybersecurity slash IT team that's always on standby. So any, anytime you have a question, you, you're directly linked to our team, you drop

a note, you never have to guess about anything. If you're unsure what I tell folks, I don't do anything, just drop me a quick message. We'll answer it. And that way everything happens, like ends up on a happy note. And that's how it's been. And so far it's been exceptional. You mentioned the phone. Here's a D Google. This is a Graphene OS. Yes, beautiful. That is one of our top ones as well. I use a Graphene OS, I absolutely love it. I used to be an iPhone user for many years and now I don't think about it for half a day.

You know, like not at all. VPN, you mentioned that, any recommendations? Because I'm sure people listening to this or watching this might wanna know, wanna pick your brain about what you think it does. Yeah, that's a good question because you know, you have to be very careful when you work with, you know, cybersecurity services.

You have to audit them, making sure that they are not, for example, logging your activity, even though they're marketing that they're not. So you have to do your due diligence. I like, you know, services like MulVad VPN is one of my favorites. These guys are top notch. There's a lot of other services out there. We mostly focus on open source solutions that we can vet and audit and make sure that there's no funny business going on. And we put them all together so that they function in the background without the user even having to interact with them whatsoever,

other than just leaving it on. At some point, you even forget that they're running because there's almost no noticeable degradation in performance whatsoever. So, you know, when it comes and when it pertains, for example, to the de-Google phones, there are options to buy anonymous SIM cards for those that actually need a number, you know, and those work globally, you can pay for them using your Bitcoin or other crypto if you have it. That way, there are options available. And we continuously research this space to see what's out there, what's new and upcoming. We test the ones that we like. We make sure that if we can't blow them up, then okay, well then that's a viable option that other people might find useful as well. And so slowly we start pushing out these services, these services more

and training folks on how to use them. Because of course, you know, somebody doesn't come from a tech world and it's been using like an iPhone, for example, their whole life. You know, when you, when you mentioned like a Grafino S for example, it's like, sounds like alien technology. You know, so we take that whole alien aspect of it. And again, we translate it into simple alien technology, you know, so we take that alien aspect of it. And again, we translate it into simple English, and you know, put them through like an easy to follow training, so that now this new phone is pretty close

to the iPhone experience and will continuously get easier, the more they use it, right. The most challenging aspect for me was the, not using the cloud and using my own network to secure my data. And so I'm not sure, like what's your recommendation for people who want to unplug themselves from a cloud, like I don't know sure what Apple uses,

but maybe a Google Drive or Google Phot photos and use their own way of securing their data. What would you recommend people use is a, I'd love to pick your brain. Maybe I have to switch what I'm using here. Well, look, if, if, if you understand networking and how to self host applications and you know, all that stuff, then it's fantastic. The only downside to doing the self-hosting yourself is that you have to account for a lot of things. Like for example, let's say you're running a home server

with everything synced to your own NAS, your whole file storage. Well, what happens if your internet goes down and you're abroad and you need something? Then you're stuck, right? Like you have to wait until it comes back online, blah, blah. And if, but if you're pressed, like if it's an emergency and that happens in that moment, well then you're out of luck. Also, you know, like you have redundancy, backups, you know, like what if, God forbid, you know, your house blows up, then what happens? So

do you have, do you have an offsite backup? Like you have to think about all of these things. So the concept of self-hosting is great in theory, as long as it's done right. And what I mean by done right is you have to account for all of the variables that are around. It's not like I just buy a NAS and life's good. No, it's good as long as nothing bad happens. It doesn't burn, it doesn't break, like the internet that's going down, all these things you have to account for. There are online solutions, encrypted online solutions, that are open source as well, that you can also rely on. And so the advantage that they have

is that they have the redundancy that you don't. Their internet is not gonna go down because they've got like a million backups. You know, they're functioning on, you know, arrays of servers. So it's not like one single point of failure. If something goes down with one of their hard drives, you won't even notice. And it's accessible to you worldwide. You can even go as far as encrypting certain files on your favorite cloud provider,

whether it's Apple's iCloud, Google's Google Drive, you know, Microsoft's OneDrive. If you want to use this, you can. But what we do for those that, you know, want to use them or have to use them for whatever reason, is that we show them how to encrypt the data on these cloud services so that none of the big tech can see the actual files. That way, you know, you're sort of like getting the best of both worlds. Yeah. So there are many options. I used to self host even myself because of course, I know how to do it. But I just found that the maintenance and upkeep for it was, it was just taking up too much time even for someone like myself. And so I resorted more to the, you know,

the online stuff. Sure. Some of them you have to pay for them. That's okay. You know, like my time is worth a lot more than, you know, the time I'm going to spend trying to do this manually. So you outsource that service. You, of course, you research, make sure that, you know, it's a properly vetted service. You test it, make sure it works well. And once that's confirmed, life's good, man. Like you literally can be anywhere and always has access to everything knowing that no one else will ever have access to it other than yourself and whoever else you've trusted with that information. Do you have time for one last question? Because Node, running on Node. This is a topic we have quite often on our show.

I'm a big proponent of running it. I actually have mine is here no less than two feet from me. It seems like it's always the case. So when, if, should anybody start running a node, especially if they're newer to Bitcoin, maybe if they've been in Bitcoin for a little bit longer, when or if should they start running a node? And if so, what implication of a node should they run?

Right away. Everyone that comes to us is running a node. So we're probably responsible for God knows how many nodes that are online now. So we highly recommend every single Bitcoiner run a node. Well, for a multitude of reasons. I mean, the most immediate reason is the privacy aspect. If you're connecting to somebody else's node,

well, you're leaking a ton of privacy information all over the place that you don't wanna be doing. For example, like your IP address, transaction ID, the wallet address, the amounts and all that stuff, you're leaving them on somebody else's node. When you're routing your transactions via your own hardware, nobody sees that other than you. It's your hardware sitting at home.

It's fully private. So just for that alone, it's worth it. The indirect benefit is of course, every node that comes online, you know, exponentially adds to the decentralization and strength of the entire Bitcoin network, which of course benefits everybody, including you. So we highly recommend that every single Bitcoiner must run a node. One, it's not expensive and there's no maintenance really on it other than just let it run and do its thing. Occasionally, we have to go in and update a few components, but that's not like a

daily workout that's once in a while after the update's been tested and made sure everything is okay, then we apply it and you keep up with the whole security benefits that it provides. But yes, absolutely running a node is, as far as we're concerned, is a must for every single Bitcoiner. Only work with open source nodes. Don't skimp on that process. In fact, don't skimp on any of the elements involved in your self-custody because this

is generational wealth. You are the head of security now, this is your bank. If you're going to be OCD over anything in your life, this is likely going to be it. Because if you take a shortcut, become lazy or do whatever, then you are introducing unnecessary risks that may potentially blow up in your face. And you don't want that. It's completely avoidable. Just following proper security protocols, a little bit of discipline, it's always a happy ending. The Debian 12 user over here, even my node runs Debian 12. Yeah. You could do a hardened Debian 12. There's documentation to do this. It's

not that difficult. And you're 100% right. If you think this thing is going to, there's generational wealth here, and I think we all do, there's no amount of security. There's no amount of time and effort you can to make yourself as you have over there, a sovereign individual. And Node Runner is definitely the way to do it. Yeah, of course. I mean, you can build it yourself if you have the technical background to do it

and you enjoy doing this stuff, or you can buy them pre-made. There are a lot of good products out there that are, for the most part, plug and play. Of course, there's a few things that you have to tweak, but for the most part, you just plug it in and off you go. If you're capable of running multiple nodes, then even better.

For example, I run six nodes dispersed globally just for the redundancy aspect and for the whole, you're just helping the network, so to speak. Of course, of course, like nobody needs to run six nodes. I do it because, you know, it's just me. But one, it's redundancy. Like if one node stops working, within five seconds, I redirect to another one and, you know, life's good. But at the same time, you know, it's like they're dispersed in different cities, you know, and they're situated at some friends' and families' homes, just sitting there doing their thing,

adding to the decentralization and strength of the entire network. And so the more nodes that come online, it really helps a lot more than people realize. 100%. And it's up to us to continually run them. Read the block size words. People understand why running a node is so darn important because node runners have

a lot more power than people make it out to be. So, Tony, I want to thank you for taking the time. We've gone a little bit long. My apologies for that. No worries. It's my pleasure. Before we sign off, though, I just want to hand a baton to you. Maybe any last words where people could find you. You know, the floor is yours, buddy.

Anyone is, everyone is welcome to reach out to us at the BitcoinWay.com. You know, like you mentioned earlier, we offer a free 30 minute, you know, welcome call consultation just to get to know us. If you have any questions, you're curious about certain things, you know, you're welcome, you're welcome to call, you know, of course there's no obligations whatsoever. On social media, you can find us on Twitter X, you know, like I'm very active there. So so it's the Bitcoin Way account. You know, my handle is V4BTC, you know, victory for Bitcoin. So that's what it stands for. That's what it stands for. Okay. Yeah, that's what it stands

for. So V, the number four, then BTC. And of course, the Bitcoin Way account, which is the Bitcoin Way underscore is also very active. We regularly post content on social media and we're very big proponents of self-custody. The personal responsibility is the only way to enjoy this revolution. There's no need to involve any third-party custodian. There's no need to rely on any third party institution for anything relating to your Bitcoin. That illusion of security and convenience and all that jazz, it's just noise. You know, everybody can learn to do this themselves. It's not that hard. We will show you and prove it to you. And by the end of it, you will be happy that the only person

that's going to be responsible for your generational wealth is the one staring back at you in the mirror. Well said, Tony from the BitcoinWay.com. Appreciate you taking the time to come out and we'll be back at this again Monday. So with that, take care. Thank you, Len.