The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - URGENT: ColdCard Users NEED TO ACT NOW or LOSE THEIR BITCOIN

Episode Date: August 2, 2026

🚨 URGENT BITCOIN SECURITY ALERT 🚨A critical security flaw has hit older Coldcard hardware wallets, resulting in a massive on-chain sweep where roughly 594 BTC (valued at over $38 million) was stolen from hundreds of single-signature wallets. Coinkite has issued an urgent warning regarding Coldcard Mk3 devices (and certain firmware versions) where the device generated entropy was dangerously low....dropping from the expected 128 bits down to roughly 40 bits.In this live stream, we break down:• Exactly what went wrong with the Coldcard Mk3 random number generator (RNG) / entropy fallback.• How attackers were able to brute-force and sweep vulnerable wallets.• Which models and firmware versions are affected (Mk3 vs. Mk4/Mk5/Q).• Step-by-step instructions on what you need to do RIGHT NOW if you generated a seed on an affected device.• Temporary mitigations (like strong BIP-39 passphrases) vs. permanent migration.Don't panic, but take action immediately. Drop your questions in the live chat!---🔗 RESOURCES & OFFICIAL ADVISORIES:• Coinkite Official Blog / Security Notice: https://blog.coinkite.com/• Check Mempool Transaction Details: https://mempool.space/• Coldcard Vulnerability & Wallet Entropy Best Practices: https://btcmaxis.com/article.html?id=7554e7cb-d8aa-45d5-95c8-adea8d87ea23---The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - New episodes weekly.X: https://x.com/CanadianBTCPodJoey: https://x.com/joeytweeetsLen: https://x.com/thebtcpricebotSite: https://canadianbitcoiners.com#Bitcoin #Coldcard #CryptoSecurity #HardwareWallet #CryptoNews

Well, well, friends and enemies, this is a very special emergency CBP. I'm not doing this one alone. Joey is going to be showing up in the next few minutes. He's just doing some family duties. But why am I doing this? Why are we doing this? Man, oh man, what an interesting little few days, a few hours, whatever heck it may be. It seems like forever this is going on.

but your Bitcoin could be at risk if you do not follow these protocols. If you have a cold card, Mark 3, you could be rugged. Even a Mark 4 or a queue. We'll talk about that in just a second. Ladies and gentlemen, sit back. This is going to be a very interesting and informative discussion. And so, you know, the government can say whatever they want about this thing not competing. It's for black market only.

It's for this for that. But they're really treating it like a threat. And one of the things that can't be attacked is your self-custody Bitcoin. And one of the things that can be attacked is the ETF. Can't be exposed to that. That's my view. It's not a good idea. And by the way, that'll hit MSTR too.

It'll probably hit other stuff as well. Friends and enemies. Welcome back, Canadian Bikwiners podcast. Friends and enemies, welcome to the CBP. Want to be better informed. Listen to Levin Joe E. Spots is taking care off right off the top of Bitcoin and Easy DNS. The media is feeding a slop.

I am emotionally drained, but my wallet isn't. And there's a reason why is because I followed the proper procedures in which to set up my cold card. And I'm going to go through that in just a moment of what the heck that means. But before we do, I just want to rhyme off a couple of things off my checklist of things to do. Number one is, well, the sponsor, EZDNS. Mark and his team are the best in the game for providing you services with respect to registering a domain, setting up a website,

setting up a web server, email server to hold nine yards. These guys, they have your privacy in mind. If you do not believe me, just do some research and see what their history is like. And you'll see their MO is all of a customer service and ensuring that you will not get rugged with your information. These guys are the best in the game.

Mark is an amazing guy. He's been in a show a few times. And every time he has come on, People have always walked away saying, man, this guy is a fucking cool cat. And he really is. So check him out. If you are going to use any of the DNS suite of software or suite of services that they offer, use our promo code CBP Media.

Why? Because by doing so, it's going to make your first purchase, your initial purchase, 50% off. You might as well make that a mega purchase. Just load up your cart. 50% of what the heck you're doing. Check them out. EasyDNS.com. Use our promo code CBP Media.

All right. Second one, we got bull Bitcoin. These guys aren't going to rug you like a cold card mark three. Why? Because again, they got your privacy in mind and they want to make sure that you get your Bitcoin. This is interesting, especially the discussion that I want to discuss today. Bull Bitcoin. You can't do a buy without providing a Bitcoin address.

It's kind of ironic because they're given one of talking about today. But hear me out. They're not custodial. what this means is you do not trust them to hold on to your Bitcoin. You trust yourself to do the right thing. You should be doing the right thing to securing your Bitcoin. And that's what Bull Bitcoin enables you to do. These guys are the very best in the game when it comes to privacy.

They are the very best in the game when it comes to sovereignty. You could use lightning if you want when fees are going up. And surprisingly, they haven't gone up, which means that you can still use on-chain and Bull Bitcoin will be happy to do all those buys and sales on chain. So check them out. If you use our code below to, or a link below to sign up, what that means is all your buys and sales in perpetuity are going to be cheaper. So it might as well do that, especially if you're in Canada, Western Europe, where else to stay in Costa Rica, Argentina, Colombia, a whole bunch of countries, maybe coming to a country

near you. Either way, we'll Bitcoin, check them out. All right. The formalities are out of the way. I guess we could get into why it is I'm here to discuss. And if my mic is cutting out for any reasons, just please let me know. And so waiting for Big Joey to show up, still doing family duty. Either way, gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, friends and enemies, I appreciate you coming on to listen to me on a Friday evening at that. I hope you all had a wonderful Friday. I did. I was at the links this morning and had some good times.

All right. So here we go. What's the problem? We have the cold card mark three. And this is problematic if you're using it. And if you are and if you have let it set up your device, the seeds of 12 or 24 words, you're setting yourself up for a rugging. This is a recipe for getting rugged.

Not just the Mark 3, but I would also say this would also apply in the future for the Mark 4 and the Q, Mark 5, cold card as well. don't let the device itself set up your words. We do not need this. You do not need this. You're trusting them, Coin Kite, to have your best interest,

your Bitcoin and mine, and clearly they haven't. And I'll be talking about, no, no, Joy did get his cold card swept. That was some time ago. And the reason why he did it is this happened. And I don't want to speak on his behalf. maybe he could give a little bit more details.

But when he set up his cold card at the time, this was years ago, he rolled his dice not many times. The entropy was quite low. And so it was easy for then somebody to just scan addresses and try to use various ways to get in. And it managed to get into his wallet. And there you go. So it was just at that time, he just did poor entropy, didn't roll the dice enough. and since then cold cards now prevent you from doing like five rolls, it gives you an error or something like that. You've got to do like a bunch of roles to be to make it happy.

But we'll get to that in a second. Anyways, with respect to the cold card mark three incident and people losing their Bitcoin, a bunch of people lost their Bitcoin. Over a thousand Bitcoin and counting have been stolen from people. And this happened in a very short period of time. I mean, 41 minute window between 110 in the morning and 151 in the morning. UTC time on July 30th. This is when everything took place and everything was executed.

And, oh, Joey's coming in. Joey, who are you? What a day, man. What a day. I am fucking exhausted. I mean, the groundwork here setting the table about what's, going on. I had done the ad reads, so we're done that, Joey. And somebody was asking about when you got your cold card sweat. Maybe I tried to give my rendition of it, but since you did it

first hand, I'd be happy to talk about it. I want to, I just want to say the number of people who are messaging me, I am really trying to reply to everybody with a thoughtful and careful and thorough response. There's more than one person asking about that incident. I'm happy to talk about it. And I would just say that in my view, what happened there with the, it was a Mark 4 device worth noting in 2022. The entropy that was given to me by the cold card itself was low, apparently. And I added my own sort of like, you know, thumb tapping entropy on top of that, no dice, no nothing. Just set it up hastily and added, you know, who knows, 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 or 5, I have no idea. thumb tap numpad hits and got drained.

And here we are now four years later, five years later. I think it was four years. I'm pretty sure I went to that game. I remember going to the Dolphins game. Then the next day checking and I was like, cooked. I lost a, you know, at the time in the significant, some who knows what it's worth now, I forget. But I don't, I'm not technical enough to say for sure.

But in my view, like this is now, an entropy problem that's been present in that device and that software for five years. I know people are saying that now, but if I look back and see kind of, you know, in the infancy of this show and the infancy of my own sort of self-custody journey, you know, what are you capable of in terms of holding your own Bitcoin? I didn't know any better and I should have pushed back because really now here's sort of what you're seeing, right? So the gist of it was you had a cold card.

Yeah. You didn't roll the dice. you randomly selected I had their seed and then added my own entropy right and so that there you go

yeah so and that was enough and I want to know that's right I should note that I am a I'm still a mark four user

I got rid of like I'll level with you guys I was gonna wait till Monday but there's enough people here now that I'll level with you guys I didn't I didn't clear out all my coin coin coin

coins device I cleared out two of three and every device I cleared out, it was, you know, 12 hours after the initial attack was reported, 13 hours after the initial attack was reported. And some of them I cleared out this morning because as I say all the time, I don't have access to the coins. I still stand by that. And the reason I was able to stand by that in this instance is probably something maybe Len you've discussed is you have to go the distance on the setup, man. Like, correct. You have to.

I want to say one more thing before we start going into the issue here with the setup. I ordered a Bickey and a treasur over the last 12 hours or so. I'm going to try them both. I'm going to see what they're about. But I will tell you this,

that my understanding of the setup and the quality of the hardware and the entropy that's available to you, both baked in and stuff that you can add physical entropy like the cards of the dice, I still think it's possible. The cold card has the highest ceiling for security. Correct.

When done correct, it's still the best. There's just right now the level of trust in the company and device is at an all-time low. Like you said, and I've been fucking pounding

this drum for a very long time. People laughed at me, people smirked at me, people, I turned her back and said comments behind to say funny things about me. But the paranoid way of setting things up clearly was the right way to do it.

Closing the bathroom drapes, the door, leaving the phone out. side and rolling some dice. That was the way the whole time. I slept good last night. This morning I went to go play golf. I never fucking thought a thing about my Bitcoin. I knew it was secure because of the way I set it up.

And that's the way you should treat your Bitcoin. Do not fucking rely on some device to give you entropy, to provide you the amount of security required. The incompetence. This wasn't a bug. This was incompetence that led us to. this point. Yeah.

Right? Incompetence on two fronts, right? Let's talk about the sort of where we can lay some blame on the developer side, NVK, the team over there, like, I have some friends on that side of things, obviously, and I wish them the best, but difficult situation. Then we'll talk about the users. So on the MVP side of things, and we will get to your comments here. I see there's a number of comments in the chat.

I will try and address them all. And I love you guys, man. Like I said, I've been trying to respond to DMs all. day. My wife is actually away at the cottage with her mom. So of all the times for this to happen, this was not the best time, but we we persevere. So on the developer side, a couple of things. You may remember in 2021, 2022 that era, J.W. Weatherman was, he was pretty adamant that NVK had left something to do with entropy wanting in the code base of the cold card products. I am not so keen on that memory that I'm willing to like say that it was this issue, that it was

the, you know, internal RNG, but I would bet that it was related to that. We've seen obviously some pictures now of tweets and replies from MBK about the RNG from 2021, which was around the time at this, I think it was the 4.0 update landed for the three and the four. I will also note that part of the reason that this is even a problem at all is because Coin Kite, you know, was adamant that people, specifically the foundation device team was stealing their software vis-a-vis this open license. And in trying to close off the software, they had to rewrite the RNG, you know, portion of that code, and they fucked it up.

They either cut a corner, didn't review it, or fucked it up. It was there for five years in that code base. and no one thought to look at it, no one thought to think about it, no one thought to review it. There's a lot of blame there. I think there's also blame in, like, it's hard for me to believe,

honestly, that other wallet providers are not constantly scouring their competitors' code bases where available to try and find holes in what they've done. I don't know if anyone found it. I think today, like one of the most I open, funny things for me. And I like MVP. I think he's got a lot of gusto. He's got a lot of, you know, he shows his teeth more than most. And I kind of, I kind of see that in myself sometimes.

So I'm a little biased. But it's worth noting that I like the guy. But when I look at the way he behaved over the course of the last five years going on every podcast that would have them, dancing on the graves of, you know, Ledger when they had a data leak, or sorry, Trezor when they had a data a leak, like not their actual keys, but rather their mailing list, ledger when they started the recover program and all these different things. He was always the first guy to kind of hop on this like, these companies don't get it. We are the only option. We are the only thing you should be looking at. I know. Still, it's in the, I know it's in the apology. We can get to that later. And I just know one other thing. There was a lot of discussion had over the last little while about

where people should be spending their time when it comes to security. And I think that NVK, like many, kind of got caught up in something he shouldn't have been caught up in. He posted a lot of AI slop related to quantum and some other stuff. And, you know, he had this thing about, I spent 200 hours reading quantum computing papers so you don't have to, you know, post. And it would have been nice if he had spent, like Nick said, putting that 200 hours into his own code base,

the most basic functionality that he just never thought to review or look at. And to be honest with you, at this point, I think it's safe to say heed warnings about. It's unforgivable. This is beyond unforgivable. It's unforgivable. This is beyond that.

What's been done, the damage here is going to be, I'm not sure if we could repair it. And it was a time when Bitcoin had still dealing with some sort of internal struggles to do with Bip 110. The timing is not very good. It makes Bitcoin look really bad. For this to come out at this particular time, I feel fucking, I'm embarrassed. But at the same time, it's a good time to do some self-reflection on how it is we have to deal with our Bitcoin moving forward.

People are saying move the hot wallet. Well, let's talk about the users. Let's talk about the blame the users bear. Well, the users are... Maybe you tell me what... Well, it's not simply the users, right? Like, if you give... People are fucking dumb, right?

If you fucking dangle a carrot in front of them, they will fucking chase that carrot like Tony the Mule. And they'll be fucking be happy to continually chase that carrot. They don't understand that there's more to it. Look at all the ETFs that are available or people are happy to just pump their hard-earned money into the Fiat system.

even though that they one day could potentially not get access to it, not like we don't have recent evidence of this. I'm looking at the truckers, for example. But people don't know. They just turn to blind Iowa. I could get some tax savings. I'll just do that. People are fucking dumb.

So you give them the option to do things the easy way, they will do it. Yeah. Not all of them, but a lot of them will. You know, this one here, this is straight from coin kite, unforgivable. Like this just fuck you. They said seeds generated on marquis. Mark 4's Q's and Mark 5, which should be the flagship devices. The Mark 5 is the most recent device they released, right?

I would think that it's on par with the Q in terms of... Is there a second version of the Q or just the first version of the Q? Sorry, say it again. Is there a second version of the Q? I only know of one. I've never held one. Actually, I have held them. I'm lying, but I don't want one.

But beyond that. So they say this is straight from them. So C is generated from the Mark 4, Q, and Mark 5 before to fix firmware releases are also. affected with about 72 bits of entropy. I want to add one thing. I know. It's dishonest, I think, on their part to say that it was this like firmware update. What they should be saying is when we tried to take the code base private that we used

public code base to build. That's what it should say. And it doesn't say that. And now they're having to re, you know, sort of fix this mistake fucking a decade later or half a decade later, whatever. I'll just make a reply to your comment. Yeah, none of them got rugged using I bit. I get that until, like not yet.

Finish your description. Then we'll go through some of the questions because there's a lot of comments and questions. Well, again, the problem with all this is the system, the easy option was flawed. And it will always remain flawed. Nobody wants to go do the hard work because it's the hard work. Right. And with all this, you know, I feel bad for coin kite employees.

People working there, this is their livelihood. Now they're there to face of coin kite. And who knows what's going to happen to them. It's tough. It was hard. It was hard listening to Dee a few times today. Like, because like what is he supposed to say to people who lost their life savings? I don't know.

I know. He's in a People are crushing him Because they're putting up videos Of like how to roll dice And to be honest I thought it was kind of in poor taste But the question is like

What else you want to do? What are they supposed to do? I don't know And if you are in his shoes Try to map out what would be his next move And you'll see that every Every decision you come up with There's a roadblock

And there's no clear path But I don't want it to go talk about him In too much detail We might have a I have a special guest joining us shortly, by the way. Okay. So for that, I feel bad for the coin kite employees. I don't feel bad for

Coin Kite or NVK. The approach he's had over the years with sheer arrogance and shitting on the competition every chance he get, and as we talked to about just a few moments ago, still today, retweeting messages that... I'm pretty sure he deleted it, but... Well, it was there. These pseudo jabs

It's tough. Towards the competition At a time when people lost their potential future savings, they put their time effort into buying Bitcoin, listening to the fucking message. Unfortunately, they didn't fucking verify. They trusted dumb, dumb, dumb decisions by them and fucking by coin kite, right?

So you could recall, like you said, they wanted the bear the fruits of their labor. 2011, like you said, they went from a GPL license. 2021, 2021, 2021. They went to the GPL that was March to something else. And it prevented a competition from copying the work that they did. I get it. They didn't do.

The thing is the work, the question about who did the work is an open one. I haven't had time to look deep into this, like I said. But my impression, Len, is that they used open stuff to build and then. added some sort of what they thought was, you know, proprietary finesse to the product and then tried to pull up the ladder. If that's true, I mean, God damn, man. Meanwhile, the guys you tried to lock out, foundation, Trezer, ledger, like, we could say you and me have been critical of ledger especially since we started this show. And they've deserved it. The leaks, the data leaks, the recover program.

But how many seeds have been leaked from Ledger? Addresses have been leaked, Joey. Zero seeds. There's no seeds. So then by that same train of thought, how many people that properly set up their Bitcoin using a

cold card rolling the dice? Does cold card recommend you roll the dice? It's one of the options. I can't say, do they recommend it? Do they recommend it? Is it the default? I recommend it. Yeah, but that's not enough. That's not enough. It is enough because I don't care if they recommend it. This is Len Approve method.

Yeah. And if you don't want to follow it, fuck you. That ain't it. Pulture emotions. Watch your Bitcoin go to somebody else's address and I'll be still golfing and enjoying my fucking game. It's funny. I see, I see you Lee.

I can't pronounce this. I can barely see it. The font so small in the chat. But it's good to see you. I've not seen you in the chat before. You've had some high alpha comments here. Cold Card actually designates that in their own menus as an advanced feature. So, like, what do they really want you to do is the question.

No one goes into the advanced menu the first time they buy the unit. Now, ultimately, the debate, you know, maybe doesn't center on what should the advanced user do. This debate centers on what should the average user do. This was sold as the maximalist hardware wallet. and instead what did we get we got you know something that was quite the opposite hold on a minute hold on a minute who's is that whose music is that it's mark jefftivick's music oh my goodness wow ringside mark how are you hear me good to see yeah good to see yeah oh i wish under better circumstances make sure you got your headphone mic selected there you might be on your uh whatever mike

is in your pocket. You might be selecting that one. I think it's possible. I think that's exactly what's going on. Why is there music playing? No, but I can hear your pants ruffling, I think. You just don't move. As long as you're static, no, no laughing, no, because that's going to, no, just kidding.

Is that better? Mark, it. Way better. Much better. Mark. Let's hear your thoughts in this whole debacle here. I want to hear from somebody else's point of view, not just simply myself or Joey. It's absolutely brutal. I've been like obsessively checking my balances like several times an hour, even though I'm not on an affected device. I just put out a, on X, a tweet. So I mean, there's no, there's no minimizing the devastation for people. I just saw a tweet that like almost broke my heart of a guy, you know, posting a screenshot. He's traveling and it looks like a fire. And it looks like a fire. million dollar wallet drain has happened.

But I also, yeah, I feel bad for NVK and I feel bad for the coin kite team, all of them, right? Because, you know, as a tech CEO myself, I lose sleep over nightmare scenarios. And I remember in the year, in the run up to launching Easy DNS, almost having like total panic attacks because I just thought like what if everybody's delegated their name servers to us and we go down like I just like I almost had total panic attacks over it and of course that's happened over the years through DOS attacks and stuff like that but my point is like nothing that I've ever gone through has been as bad as this but I know how lonely it has to feel when you're the captain of the ship

and a complete shit show is that has been laid at your feet. Like, and it's yours. You own it. There's nothing you can do about it. Right. I don't know how. Do you think he's owned it? Do you think he's really owned it?

Like you had a tweet like maybe three or four months ago. That's something happened at easy and ask. Whatever it was. And like, like I think about this. that set of responses compared to what I saw from MVP today, and we were talking about this a little before you hopped on, I still don't see really an admission of guilt from anyone there. I don't see an admission that there was an error.

I don't see there was an admission. There's no admission of a mistaken strategy trying to take the code private. I don't see any of that stuff from him. Yeah. I mean, I guess I looked at his post. I'm sorry and I'm devastated. Our team is heartbroken about yesterday's news. I suppose, yeah, there has to be, I don't know if there has been anywhere.

I haven't been following all the tweets. At some point, like, you have to sort of take ownership of the specifics. You have to do the postmortem. You have to do the autopsy. You know, you have to do the RFO, the reason for outage. But this is different. But you have to say, well, this is what happened. you know, this is how I'm still thinking in the context of the kinds of situations that I have to deal with.

It's like, this is what happened and then this is how we're going to prevent it from happening in the future. And usually I'm lucky. We're unfortunate because usually it's like everything crashes and then we make changes and things come back online and everybody's sort of like back to normal. It's not like this here. It's like everybody has irrevocably lost their Bitcoin. And so it's like, oh, well we fix the entropy generation big whoop like that doesn't help someone whose entire stack whose entire life savings have just been swept and I think this the ramifications of this go

way beyond cold card and coin kite like way beyond it this goes straight into self custody itself because I'm reading some of the responses, and I consider myself a fairly knowledgeable bitcoins. Like I kind of know enough to do some damage, really. And so I'm reading about, okay, well, I know if you're on an affected device and you seed sweep just to get off the device, but you still have to generate a new wallet and move to that. So, I mean, that doesn't help you. But then to know that is like an order of magnitude above a lot of general knowledge. And then it's like, well, you know what? I was reading this one tweet.

It was why I messaged you before I realized you were live and I'd have to dig it out. But the guy was talking about, well, you need to use like your own Electrum server or a transact, like your own note. or Mara slipstream or something to basically be able to not have your transactions sniffed or monitored, right? And even that, I'm realizing this is so far beyond the average, even technically sophisticated persons. Totally. Not ability. Like everyone has the ability to do this, but just the knowledge of doing this. And the last thing, I'll say one thing, and then I'll turn it back over to you guys.

Okay. And this, maybe this is a retard take and people are going to listen to me, say this and go, Mark's a retard. Okay. Coin Kite is supposed to be the most secure device out there. I have recommended Koyn Kite in the past to my readers. I sent out an alert last night. I don't get, here's the retard part.

I don't get why it is not safe to use a Koykite device. if you don't do 100 dice rolls. But I don't have to do that with a treasurer. I don't have to do that with a ledger. I don't have to do that with an electrum wallet. I don't have to do that with a sparrow wallet. I don't get that. There's disagreement on this panel for sure about that.

They use a tried tested and true method of generating seed words. Who? Who does? Treasure does. Ledger does in which they use libraries that have been. generated and looked upon for years and years. And that was where that's the whole divergence of cold card going with their own libraries to generate seeds. And clearly it wasn't providing enough entropy.

If they just stuck with the plan of using code that's already there, open GL code, unfortunately, so they couldn't maybe monetize that. They wanted to go down this path of commercialization. And here we are as a result of all this. Unfortunately, now Bitcoin is taking a huge hit. self-custody Bitcoin. I have a few questions. I want to just ask you both of you guys, if you don't mind.

I have five simple questions. Five. Five simple. I was going to ask you, because you're both here. I'm just looking at the time here. No. Go ahead.

Go ahead. In your eyes, number one, what does this mean to Bitcoin self-custody moving forward? It's over. Me and Mark talked about this in a cab in Montreal. We were talking about this a little earlier today, that we had this discussion after one of the talks of the conference.

I think it was from, not anchor watch, but Anchorage maybe, one of these like custody solutions. And, you know, self-custody is appealing to a certain type of person who just like, you know, there's like these collisions of eras in Bitcoin. Self-custody was wicked and gained so much traction from 2017 to 2022. The price was 30,000. You know, now the price, I mean, the price right now is like whatever, 64, 65. But the price is $120,000 now. And those same people who had a lot of confidence in their setup at 30 don't have the same

confidence at 60, 70, 120, whatever. And so those people are now thinking, man, if something happens to me, I don't know what I'm going to do. Those same people, by the way, when they were setting up self-custody solutions in the mid-20 teens, you know, if I think about my own situation, Len, when I first bought my ledger back in the day. I was a kid. I had nothing to do but figure out self-custody. Now, I have a kid. And the self-custody thing needs to be the last thing on my mind all the time. It has to be something that's far from my sort of present moment engagement. And I think a lot of Bitcoiners are experiencing

the same change in the way they think. My suspicion is that today, a lot of guys who set up their custody solutions when they were 25 or 26 are now 35, 36, whatever, and are thinking, I just, I don't know what I'm doing here anymore. This is a different era than the one that I entered this realm in. And I don't want to deal with this anymore. I feel like I'm, I'm a bygone era participant at this point. I don't know, Mark. What do you think?

Am I on track or what? Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things here. I mean, I'm 59, right? So now I'm thinking about, okay, right, succession, inheritance, next generation. I got a corporate, I got a corporate treasury. The corporate things, the whole other story, yeah. And I have a personal treasury, right? And so it's like, and I don't want to really divulge too much of how I do things,

but it's basically, okay, how's the inheritance work? Well, it's basically call Joey or call Lenny and tell them that I'm dead. and they're going to tell you that, you know, they're going to come over and they're going to, you know, do the right thing with the Bitcoin. On the corporate side, I don't even want to talk about what the setup is, right? But it's like, okay, so how do we handle that? So, and I was talking, we're traveling right now, and I was talking with Angela's this morning. It's just I've been thinking about this a lot since this, you know, in the last 24 hours. I keep coming back to the same thing in my head over and over again,

and I'm probably going to write this up in the next newsletter or somewhere, that I don't think the apex asset is Bitcoin anymore. I think the apex asset is a business. Because businesses have existed the court. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You got jumbled there. What happened?

The government. Most Assad cut up the stream there. What happened? I said the apex asset is no longer, is not, in my mind, Bitcoin is not the apex asset. owning a business, a business ownership is the apex asset because corporate personhood has survived hundreds of years, if not a thousand years, and there's a millennia old way of transmitting corporate ownership through generations, right? I haven't fully formulated. sponsorship. Sponsorship is under review here.

We got to, no, no, I love different takes. I absolutely adore it because that way we could have a healthy discussion. Yeah. And come to hopefully an agreement. So do you think, do you think it's because the business is like, I mean, obviously the legal protections you mentioned there, it is a person under the law in a number of different jurisdictions. What else?

What else we're talking about here? It's just that there's these already tried and true methods of codified. ownership and succession and provenance of the actual shared cap table of the corporation. So maybe you have your Bitcoin in a corporation, right? And it's the corporation you have to protect. But it's like the corporation that succeeds through the generations. But in this day and age, you have this new technology that you have to fit into it. And the other thing I meant to mention a little earlier, which is the big wild card in all of this, which is causing all this, is AI.

right I know so who who was running the source code for Sparrow through Kenny K3 right we don't we don't know

we don't know you can you can but the thing is like you but the thing is like you don't know you as an observer as a participant as a user

just don't know what Craig Rae knows about the Sparrow code like Craig Ra in his mind knows that there's some part of the code he wants to shore up

right but you don't know what part of the code he wants to shore out yeah and so like if he doesn't do it you can't see it you're not it's it's it's too difficult with these open weight models and you know mark you mentioned the open weight stuff the funny thing is that rob hamilton i think today uh from anchor watch was saying that he tried to recreate the uh vulnerability in all three big models kimmie anthropics uh open ai or anthropics claude open a i's uh soul i think is the name of the uh The cyber model. 5.6. Yeah.

Soul and athropic kicked into the curb. Couldn't do it. Kimmy did it in one try. One shot. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. So I got to, you know, next question.

I mean, is I want to just go through these. So what signing device would you recommend to people moving forward? I'm not recommending anything. Yeah. I think it depends the kind of person. Yeah. I used to do, I used to use a ledger. And I used to recommend ledger.

And I even had like a ledger rebate. thing going in the early days of my newsletter, what happens? Ledger gets their entire customer base doxed, right? They did that other stupid thing. I can't remember what it was, but I basically had to take down all my links and say I can no longer support Ledger. I don't use Ledger anymore. I used to use, I'm not going to name names. I used to use a piece of shit wallet that was recommended by another podcaster that completely shit the bed on me. We're laughing because there's two back chats, I have. One is with the bull guys.

One is with Mark. And Mark has been, he's been spicy about this for like two years now. Yeah. And so I'm familiar with this. So I, well, okay. And I had, I had to seed sweep off of that piece of fucking garbage. Right. Okay, fine.

And I have recommended coin kite over the years, right? I didn't join the, I don't think, I think I applied to the affiliate program. I don't know if I ever did anything, but I'm like, okay. So I had to email my list last night. I had to email the bomb forward list. I had to say, you know, we've got to do this. And that is funny because I bought a treasure last night too. And they automatically enrolled me into their referral program.

And I was like, oh, hey, I could just like put up. And I just thought, how many times do I want to go through this? How many times do I want to do like, oh, hey, remember that hardware wallet I recommended to you? Well, yeah, you're about to get drained. So I'm not recommending anything anymore. It's beyond my pay grade. And I don't know what to do. Like say, I did say called Bitcoin mentor, I think maybe you have to start looking at institutional grade custody.

You know, like, um, um, the names. CASA or, uh, uh, not Rivers, sorry, on land. Unchained is unchained. Unchained. Sorry. Right. Um, yeah, like you're going to have to start thinking about that. Like, like, uh, Becca and Rob Hamilton watch like those guys.

But then again, so even I was thinking about. that. Sorry, Lynn, we're getting a little off topic. Oh, no, no, please. Go ahead. So you've got all these new companies that are relatively new. And there's a couple of things I think that I've been saying for a few years about the Bitcoin economy and that it is really tough to be a Bitcoin-only business, right? Most Bitcoin-only businesses go bankrupt. That's just the reality. Like, the ones that don't are the exceptions that prove the rule. Bull Bitcoin is the only Bitcoin-only exchange that I know that is viable and looks to remain so for the near future. Thuan has been on the ropes for a long time, Bitcoin only. The companies that aren't on the verge of bankruptcy

all the time are not Bitcoin only and everybody fucking hates them like Coinbase, right? Coinbase is not going to go bankrupt, but they're not Bitcoin only. So then you've got these new companies that are Bitcoin only. So basically you go into famine mode for three years. out of every four. Business is only good for about three months at the top of the cycle. And you're going to do this institutional custody arrangement with a company that's been around less than your toddler kid and you're trying to build a multi-generational inheritance scheme with a company that's probably not going to exist in 18 months. So how does that work? how do you build a multi-generational institutional model with businesses that are run by 30-year-old guys in six-month-old businesses that are probably going to turn to dust in the next fair cycle?

How do you do that? Yeah. I don't know. But people are looking for these solutions. One of the things I find interesting about the last 24 hours is there are Bitcoiners who I really thought understores. like security modeling, personal security modeling. Let's not get into the corporate side for now, but they don't understand personal security modeling. People who are, you know, carrying six-figure follower accounts don't understand how to roll dice for the seed phrase.

And I want to ask you, Len, maybe, you know, to turn the, the dragon back on you a little bit, I mean, I don't know what hardware well I would recommend, but I'd be curious, like, what would you recommend? I am almost a. afraid you're going to say coin kite still. Yes, because this problem isn't about coin kite itself. It's about the entropy in which you sourced it. And they did so, people are doing so without doing the proper verification. They're trusting.

You keep on saying, like, I do not view this as the proper. Proper is something that is defined by the vendor in a lot of cases. Again, I have to push back on this too. proper is like, oh, you didn't use it right. Look, I'm spending the money on this device. It should come out of the box working right. Yeah. Like I, and, and this is the conversation that you and I had, Joey in that cab in Montreal. It's like, I'm sorry, but the reality is most people don't want to roll a dice a hundred times to use something. They just spend. Certainly not a corporate order. They want they want PayPal. I'm sorry, it's the truth. And that's what they're going to opt for. 100%. They want the easy option. Doesn't mean it's the right option. When I buy a laptop, which I just did recently, I do the right thing. I wipe Windows and put Linux on it.

To me, that's proper. I'm running open source software, which I could verify. So I define what is proper. I'm the end user. It's my definition. And that's what I choose to be proper. So you got the users on the hook for the rugging of the funds? Do I have that right?

No. Len, you know you're an outlier, right? I may be. I don't care if I'm an outlier. You know what? I'll say to you again, like they said everyone else. Yesterday,

this shit was going on. There's a shitstorm going on in all these messages. You know what? When I put my head down to sleep, I slept like a baby. This morning, when I woke up,

Mark, and this is no hyperbole, took my shower, looked at messages for a little bit, buddy came to pick me up. I played golf. I barely looked at my phone. I was grinding in all day today.

Mark, I didn't even do the access of easy podcast yet. I still have to put it out. I know. Actually, Tamash just message me saying, is Joey going to do the thing? It's been crazy today. It's like the whole hold tight thing, man. I read, I know the way to do it. I did it.

My funds are safe. Man, I really think, though, Len, Len, like, what is the question is like, what is the responsibility of the vendor then? If the responsibility, if the responsibility of the vendor, is so low that no matter what they ship you, if it's got the capacity to do the thing you need, then anyone can ship anything. And the expectation is,

well, just replace a bit of the hardware or just replace part of the, like that's not a realistic expectation. It's just like that's, you're like a, it's not even like a 5% thing. It's like a 0.0.1% thing.

It's so low. You know what I'm looking at? Number one, that's me. Also, I have to point out, last year, I sat down with a bunch of boomers. Never fucking touched Bitcoin, never learned Bitcoin. But prior, and I advised them at the time, if you want to do this the way I believe you should do it, order a cold card mark for. Nailed it. And none of them did, and I'm thankful I didn't do that way.

None of them used the device to set their own seed phrase. I told them, I rolled the dice, come in with these things, and they did. They followed my fucking advice. and these are boomers, right? It was challenging, yes, but we did it. In a group set, it requires education. Cold Cart, unfortunately, shouldn't have had the option for people to use the easy method. It was there.

It was a mistake. So it is their fault, too. Okay, so what about if someone just, like, bought a treasurer and didn't have to roll any dice, and they just don't have to worry about it because treasurer is, got a decent entropy generation. They don't get to roll dice to add their own, but it's like a built in, baked in, tried, tested and true.

Let's look at the three items. Is it air gaped? I think the air gap thing's a Larp at this point. I don't believe so. That's a hill I'm going to fucking die in. Is it truly open source? Or can I at least verify the code? I don't know. Is it Bitcoin

only? You can buy Bitcoin only Treasers, yeah. So does it the other two do they exist? And if no, then they sell like two models now yeah but there is there was enough demand to to your point there was enough demand for bitcoin only they had to sell a bitcoin only model i could tell you unequivocally that i have never ever lost my bitcoin all the bitcoin that i had sent to me i have access to to me that that's the experience the history should be enough to listen to people who choose not to

is their choice but if they do they see what's being done they see the what is the then why doesn't then why doesn't cold card tell you don't take our word for it

roll the dice yeah I mean it should have bright no it should have bright red lettering on the package it shouldn't be in the advanced menu it shouldn't be in the like gentlemen you do not do a hundred dice roll

you will get wallet you should have to tear through that and actually like click a couple of boxes before you can even turn it on. They sold merch that said, don't trust, verify.

Oh my God. This is what they sell. Spare me. I don't buy this at all. You're getting a, you're getting killed in the comments. I don't give it. I think this is not.

Ever lost my Bitcoin. And I don't plan to lose my Bitcoin. So anyway, still go back. So this is not truly just a cold cart thing. Was that the second question or the first question? I was second.

Okay. What's the third question? Keep on. What does this mean for a coin kite or NVK? They're done, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. You know what?

A lot, I don't, never say die. A lot depends on how Rodolfo, NVK handles himself in the next 48, 72 hours. He tried to remove himself from the public eye and when as far as like not doing any in camera interviews. We asked him to talk about something that happened like, you know, three months ago and he wouldn't come on camera. I, you know, obviously on Ben's channel, he did an interview with Nathan and a few other

guys and he's not on camera. Like, you have to abandon that. You have to show your user base and, and the ecosystem, you know, writ large that you're willing to like wear this a little bit. This is one of those times. You have to step up and you have to. You have to. You have to take the heats.

Did you read the blog post, Mark? What did you think of the blog post? Yeah, I mean, you know, I could tell he was feeling pain. Okay, I'll tell you something else about what happens in situations like this. I've been in situations like this. Nothing nearly as bad. But, you know, there was one in particular. I was humiliated and made a laughing stock.

they made the news, you know? And I had this big thing prepped, right? And also, like, people around me are like, I don't know, it's like, I know you're feeling this way, but it's too much. You can't say all this, right? This is like, there's an ongoing investigation. Like, the lawyers are telling you to shut the hell up, you know? It's like there's so there's all these people around you, putting constraints on you on a situation. I'm talking about, if anyone's wondering, I'm talking about the time the government of Ontario name servers got hijacked and pointed at that MC Hammer video in 2011 or no it was 2014 I think and the whole province was down for the weekend of course it was recoverable right so it was but it was a really really really bad moment and we had our wallet we had

our bitcoin stolen in that incident I mentioned that online big stack my own fault left it in the wrong place. That was humiliating, right? And it was just awful. And I put this big Mia culpa together to just totally take ownership. And there were people who were like, you can't put that out there. You can't say that. For one thing, there's an active police investigation going on.

So you have to just kind of like, so it's possible that something like that is happening. You know, maybe, maybe not. I think at some point you do have to like really, yeah, I don't have any excuses. I just really have sincere apologies, you know. Have you been satisfied, Len, with his response so far? No, it's not only is it underwhelming. I think it's par for the course, given the fact that he seems to be more trying to, as I said earlier, making these pseudojabs against the competition through retweets.

at a time when people lost their funds, people lost faith in the company and the products which he sell, he should be more trying to put out fires rather than coming to it with a can of gasoline and spreading the fires. That's what he seems to be doing, unfortunately. It's sad to watch, you know, I kind of started making this point before you came on, Mark, and I'll finish it now. If you look at the way that other exchange, not exchange, but hardware providers, I should say, are carrying themselves at this moment.

They're like, you know, asking if they can help with your funds, you know, let me teach you about multi-sig. Let me teach you about this. If you want to like, even treasur, like you want to buy a wallet, we'll put them on sale, whatever. Like they could be doing wartime surge pricing and they're doing the opposite. If I go back and look at like how NVK behaved when the ledger client leak happened, he's tap dancing on their graves. Yeah. And it's like, you know, this is what happens. There's a difference here, a night and day difference in the demeanor of the affected party.

And it sucks to watch this. But at the same time, lend to your point, man, like it feels like, you know, galactic karma coming home to Roost in a lot of ways. And I'm not even, I don't even know my own star sign, let alone, you know, talking about the other stuff going on in the universe. But it does seem like there's some alignment here that that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, being made right. The other thing that bothers me about all this, and I don't want to get ahead of your questions, but the idea that Coin Kite, this big company with all these wallets out there, big enough to basically upend the entire space for at this point close to 48 or 24 hours, I should say, how many people are working at that place? Is it four people? Like it's Rodolfo

D? I don't even know who else works there. There's no like there's no online commentary from the company. Like where is the communication? Where is the, I don't know. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing or what. It's possible they're under strict orders to keep, you know, comms to a minimum. D is being heroic out there.

So, you know, he could have quit. Yeah. Just like I've just tendered my resignation. He may be polishing his resume anyways, to be honest with it. You know, like. But. So maybe we go back to the other question. I think it was your original question.

was what happens to Coin Kite? Do they live or die? My guess is they die. Even though I still think they have still the highest ceiling in terms of security because that physical entropy option and the power user stuff, but that's not a big market. And there's guys, you know, one thing about Bitcoin is that the hardware wallet companies, as kind as they may seem today, you can't.

not tell me these guys are not popping champagne bottles behind the scenes about this. They're praying on that user base who just joined up in the last two years is not a power user but was co-opted by the social layer of Bitcoin, right? If you're a maxi, this is what you buy. Rodolfo is the man. We look at this hardware as the gold standard. This is the most secure thing. It's on Marty and Matt show.

Shitland, we've talked about it on Ben Perrin's podcast. We talk about it every week. They sponsored it up until today. I still think that probably, I don't know, I don't know what you're going to say, Mark, but my guess is like six months, eight months, maybe, they close up shop. I don't want to speculate. I got a few minutes. What's the question for?

Well, let's impact Bitcoin. No. You know, so far it hasn't. What did the All In podcast talk about today? That probably came out in the last hour. Is it in their list of stories? Let's have a quick look here. The only thing I would say just before you guys truly answer,

Covenants before try to absorb that in your answer. You know, it doesn't, it's not, it's not a tangible outcome right now. Covenants are even more difficult than anything else. I don't see actually that all uncovered the Bitcoin hack. It hasn't hit zero hedge and I know. The Bitcoin hack is not? No. And I know Tyler got two copies.

of my emails. Nothing. Yeah, nothing so far. I did see Saks typed in a few Bitcoin tweets today, but nothing so far. I don't think you're saying, I'm hoping for cheap cold cards. I have unopened cold cards just sitting here.

Yes, I'm open. On the camera here. Yeah, if you want one, tell me. Several. You got to pay for shipping in my time, too. Now, nothing is free. Does this change your opinion with Bitcoin? It has. This has impacted my

opinion of Bitcoin in a sense of that. It's, and I'm still thinking this through. It's, it's, so I'm still formulating my opinion on it. But I was telling Joey a bit about this, I think yesterday. This morning. Yeah. Maybe this morning. This, it's not this incident by itself, but it's kind of starting to shape up to be

like death by a thousand cuts of, I'm not like exiting Bitcoin or anything. just saying my opinion of it has changed, seems to be changing in the, it's like the BIP 110 thing tested my patients, not because of there's anything inherently wrong with the BIP 110 technical argument, but because of the way the BIP 110ers tended to conduct themselves was very off-putting to me. It just feels like this is not a serious space. It just feels that way. It just feels like it's a fucking clown show, right?

It's a bunch of retarded monkeys sniffing glue flinging their own feces at each other. This guy's corporate, by the way. It's like how long do I want to stay, like how much do I want to be associated with this fucking shit show? The shit show is different from the asset though, right? Yeah, so you say. So you say, right? But if you study the public mind and you study like the zeitgeist of the ass, I don't know,

I don't want to sound too airy-fairy here, but I'm just kind of like, I don't know. I'm not as starry-eyed as I was in 2017 or 2022 even. I'll tell you that. I'm kind of like way more jaded and cynical than I was even a year ago. And I know there's a bare market on. I know it's like there's, you always have the bear market blues. But this, this feels different in a sense that it's like, yeah, I don't know. Let me ask you this.

Let me ask you this. Let me try and, let me try and sort of get you going the right direction. The crowd, the crowd is like, you know, sort of this mad group of people that goes with the flow at all times. Everyone's got an opinion on the thing that's, you know, dominating their Twitter. feed. What is the fix? Is the fix more of the sort of PLEB mindset or is the fix more of the trad-fi mindset in the space? Because I think there is a fork, to borrow a phrase, coming in terms of what is the dominant narrative. Is it we need to upend governments with this thing? Or is it, I just want to preserve my purchasing power and I don't care how I do it.

I think you kind of hit on something. We need more grownups in the room. That's what it feels like. And it feels like we don't have any right now. Everybody is a toxic maximalist, you know, autist. And it's like, okay, that gets you so far. Maybe that gets you to the first trillion in market cap. But if we're serious and we need to get to $10 trillion and $50 trillion,

whether you want it or not, like you're not going to get there on just a bunch of, like what God is here doesn't get there on means. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, what got us here doesn't get us there. And you're going to need, you're going to need some people wearing suits. You're going to need some corporations.

You're going to need some institutional involvement. I mean, that's just the reality. And there's really seems to be like, oh, you're a suit coiner, you're big Bitcoin, you're like, you're a shit coiner. You're like, say, yeah, okay. Then, you know, let's just all like just switch to Minero then. And we can just all stay way out here on the fringe. And not only does no, can nobody take it away from us, like nobody even knows we have it. And you can even spend it and nobody knows.

And we can be like way under the radar. like let's just do that. We, we appreciate you coming on. I know your wife is probably like just off camera, wondering what the fuck is this guy yelling about here? Suitcoiners, big,

Bitcoin, we have no idea. Okay, she doesn't know. No one knows. Leth looks like he wants me to leave anyway. Even we don't know. No, dude,

I'm happy to have you on here. You can stay as long as you want, but I get the feeling that it's probably time to, probably time to call it. Mark, what I like, and I said it earlier, and I truly believe this,

I want to hear different ideas. I want to listen to them, absorb them, because discussion is healthy. And I think that's the best way we should move forward with just about anything. If you just shut things out for the sake of shutting it out, you get nowhere. But if you could discuss it and even argue something, that's the way to do it. So, like, I'm happy to have you come on. I don't agree everything you can say, but I'm just happy to hear you. And, you know, maybe one day we could sit down and have a longer discussion over a beer.

Mark actually looks more tan than I was expecting. I think you just went, you just went away. I got to say, okay, so I'll tell you something. We're in Ottawa. We've been all, we've been touring the Supreme Court, the parliament buildings, the Senate is across the street. I got to tell you something. Not one land acknowledgement.

Like in, in about 15 tours, we, University of Ottawa, campus like not one land acknowledgement one tour guide it seemed like the most pain she was in was she had to admit that john a mcdonald was the first prime minister but she told us she wasn't going to talk about his politics only about the structure of his government that was i love it i love it that's great yeah and then um yeah so i just found that odd but uh refreshing i can't believe it chat can't believe it oh and and and and and And in the men's room, there are no tampons. You look at the wrong place.

That's huge. Like I checked. I am in Ottawa. And like, anyway. But yeah, so I have gotten a bit of sun. We like it. We like it. It's good seeing you, buddy.

Okay. Yeah. So I like this is, my heart goes out to everyone. This is, this is brutal. The thing I said, you know, this is not to be like a beat or chipper or anything, but like I ended my post on X. like Thomas Edison's lab burned down to the ground when he was 67 years old and a reporter asked him, what are you going to do? And he said, we shall start rebuilding tomorrow. And he did, you know, it's all you can do. That is really all you can do, you know.

We like it. We've added a lot of subs on the channel in the last like a few months. And some people are seeing you here for the first time and really enjoying the, uh, the Jepidiv commentary here. Great. Oh, you poor pledges. Okay, I'll talk to you guys later. Get out of here. Get out of here. Tell the family we said hi and we'll talk to you soon.

All right. Just two shall pass. That's right. That's right. Joe. Mr. Joey. Yeah.

Before we sign up, because I'm not sure exactly how much longer we're going to go out. Not long. I hope. I'm fucking, I have no, I'm solo parenting. Okay.

I barely ate today. I was trying to do the cold card stuff. I have to do the access of easy podcast. Still, I haven't done that. And I am. running out of steam big time. There's a hair elastic around my wrist I just saw.

It's not mine. It's my two-year-old daughters. What a day. What a day. Well, good thing you're, I'm turbo diesel. You get a little, just a little bit of fuel on me and I could go for a long time. I don't sleep a lot. I just keep going and going.

But I just wanted to say one thing really quickly. And I reached out to Mr. Arnome. He's been in a show many times. How's he doing? What's he think about all this? He didn't come on to me. night. Why not? What happened? Because he's working literally day and night

has not slapped yesterday, trying to help people. He's doing boots in the ground to ensure funds aren't lost. He's guiding them through the process to We should give a show quickly to like Arnome, uh, Praveen Pereira, like Praveen man, I talked to him a bit

today one, like once in a you know, PM or DM or whatever. He's not sleeping this guy. He's trying to really do the right thing and do right by the network and do right by the people. Unbelievable guy, Pervin. You cannot, you can't, cannot stress. Even during this difficult time,

the Bitcoin crowd, man, for all the disagreements we have, some of these guys fucking, they get it when it comes to trying to help people. And I love to see that. They're doing a lot of wonderful groundwork. People even reached out to me. I took calls today.

Same. Same. That was after golf, of course. during golf I didn't fucking do a thing. I excited people. Anyways, I just want to say with Mr. Arnome and he couldn't make it here, but he did provide me a link.

I put that link in the show notes in the description. And also I'm going to post in the chat. And what it is, it's a way for people that are Mark 3 users the way that can ensure that they won't lose their funds.

this, then it shows you the way to set up. I don't want to use the word proper because it seems like I don't get slaughtered. It's going to wait to show you to set up your cold card and moving forward, you're going to be okay. Check it out. It's easy to follow.

Question for you. I haven't looked, but maybe before we sign off here, let's see who has done their regularly scheduled content. TFTC did their did a show today, but they didn't do rabbit hole recap. It doesn't look like. Oh, did they? No, they didn't. They did a rabbit hole recap yesterday, so they missed it.

They'll come back. Yeah, for sure. But I'm just trying to like, one of the things I think is worth doing. And we can close with this maybe because it is late. I just have a few more little things. Okay. You do your thing and then I'll wrap up. Well, with respect to this, whole problem with Mark St. If you think it requires a great deal of effort in order to get the seeds for those impacted wallets, it requires very little resources. There's one person, I don't want to say whom, because I just don't want to say they were able to get access to a bunch of this, never rugged it.

With about $10 worth of GPU rentals, I think. So imagine the amount of integrity that person has could have probably made bank. and moved away. Could have retired his family, decided not to. You can't find guys like this in any other space. For the worst,

Bitcoiners, the best, the ceiling is the highest. I would love to say his name, but I don't want to put him in a position. You can't. That's number one. There could be a $5 wrench attack

following as a result of that. Number two, Jare in the Discord made an awesome comment, and I got to fucking point it out. He said, imagine going through Mount Gocks many years ago.

You waited, you waited, you finally get your Bitcoin, ends up on a Mark 3, and it's fucking gone. Brutal. Man, oh, man. So that's the second thing. And third, with all this, and it's dominating our discussion,

the Bitcoin, Twitter, like, it's just fucking dominating. People are going nuts. The price of Bitcoin, 629 right now. Holding firm. Yeah. Right.

It didn't move. It moved, but a lot, little, it's up to you to decide. I would say not enough. Not enough. for what happened today. Oh, my God.

Five years ago, can you imagine the damages put it under the price? Oh, my goodness. And then the fee... It's because Sailor has so much in his stash.

He's not selling it on this news, by the way. It's the weekend. He can't get... It doesn't get access to it. Stop. Stop. I don't want to talk about it anymore.

I just want to make a joke. But this is the reality of situation. If he held onto his own keys, he'd be okay. Fees, you figure people are making lots of moves to try to move their... Big point from one place to another.

We talked about this early today that the fees are really low. The highest I've seen through what I have scanned, correct me if I'm wrong, I've seen five, sorry, seven sats per V byte as the average on a block. This morning, this morning I moved out, this morning I moved out like indiscriminately UTXO is from one of the coal cards I have. Just to just to be certain in the moment. and it cost me basically nothing. I was shocked because it was such big news last night. You'd figure you wake up in the morning and, you know, I'll mention again, like, I do live by this ethos that you shouldn't have access to your coins.

It's a bad idea. It's bad obsec, whatever. I thought for sure it would cost me more money to move that stuff and it didn't. You know who doesn't have access to their coins, do you? People that trust Mike. Mike Saylor, Mike Saylor. No, the people that trusted the coin kite. And you know what?

they don't have access to their Bitcoin because, you know, they just unfortunately, I'm happy to bring on any coin kite representative. Like, obviously, D is a friend of mine. I don't think he's like, you know, able to speak on this for the moment. But maybe we'll finish with this. Because I told you I wanted to finish by 8 and it's quarter after. I still have to order Uber Eats here for dinner. The thing that I just want to point out here more than anything else is if you ever had any, doubts that Bitcoin was not the place you wanted to be. Maybe you're unsure about the asset. You're

thinking about legislation or you're thinking about custody or you're thinking about whether or not this thing is going to get rugged by AI or quantum or whatever. I challenge you to find a more supportive and a more capable community than the one you saw over the last 24 hours. If you were a Bitcoiner and you had a Twitter account and you were willing to kind of spend some time learning about the vulnerability, learning about the solution, listening to people. You know, some of you guys have mentioned names in the chat. Obviously, you know, Ben and Nathan over VC mentor, Len and I have been responding messages all day.

And there's others too. This community cares about the mission more than we care about the price. If there was ever any doubt about that, it's. got to be extinguished after the last 24 hours. People who hate each other, hardware manufacturers, you know, competitors across coins, competitors

across multi-sig options, competitors across corporate storage, you know, these guys all put their banners down and marched under orange for a day. And I suspect it's going to continue to it again for sure, because that that's what people want to see and that's what's important to the asset class.

At the end of the day, everyone benefits from this unified approach to winning that you just don't see it in any other asset class. It's not something you want to leave. You just don't want to leave this because if you do, you're going to find it very difficult to replace that level of cooperation in another investment group, another asset class, another you know, store of value. Gold doesn't have it. Silver doesn't have it. Tesla, SpaceX, Coinbase, Microsoft, whatever. You're not going to see it. It's only here. Because at the core of this whole thing is the expectation that the person you are next to in the trenches understands most of

what you understand. The margins don't matter here like they matter other places. And I want you to remember that. Take care of your coins. They carry your families. sleep well tonight, you know, have a tallboy, order a pizza, whatever. Things are going to be all right. Like Mark said, you know, tomorrow we rebuild. And that's what we're going to do. Oh, keep rebuilding. But you know what?

We'll be fighting at each other not too distant future. It's always the case because just like siblings. Today we're fighting together. But tomorrow we're going to be, you know, fighting for the same scrap of food that's left in the table. Joey, this community, you could participate however you want. You can secure your own coins, let somebody else secured for you. You can run a node.

You can not run a node, join whenever you want to do it. There's lots of different options. It's a beautiful community. You can verify your own shit. You could look at the code. No one else could you do that, I would argue. No one else does it give you the opportunity to do that, to be an active participant in a decentralized movement. Yeah.

And just through grassroots movement. I know the price isn't everything, but the price is a lot of things. We got the 60 something thousand just by throwing out memes out there. Right? Like that's, I find that to be very encouraging. It's very funny. We'll see you guys on Monday for what will surely be more commentary on this, but also more stuff that, you know, has happened in the real world.

God, the Spain, the Spain immigrant rush. Oh, Jesus Christ. Hamilton, Brampton, man, all your favorites. Come back Monday night, 7 o'clock Eastern. until then. We'll see you next time. Don't be a cock.