The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast - Bitcoin News With a Canadian Spin - Wall Street Found Its Exit From Michael Saylor | The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

The committee nobody watches just opened the paperwork on Michael Saylor. MSCI is consulting on whether "non-operating companies" belong in its indexes — run the screen and exactly three names get deleted: Strategy, Metaplanet, and a uranium fund. Up to $8.8 billion in passive money would be forced to sell on a calendar date, decision October 16. We break down the mechanics, who's actually exposed, and why Norway's sovereign wealth fund is at record Strategy exposure at the worst possible moment.Also tonight: the BIP-110 crowd picked BLAKE2b out of a hat in a Discord and scheduled a September 1 hard fork to fire every miner on earth. Trezor's shipping partner leaked 13,689 home addresses — the wrench-attack mailing list writes itself. And in Clown World North: B.C. spends $101,000 a month housing one man in a 110-room hotel, the Ontario Line quietly triples to $34 billion, and a Toronto cop gets shot by a man who was already wanted in two other regions — 29 days after the new bail law took force.Drop your questions and comments in the live chat.— Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast📩 This week's full written brief + every source link: https://canadianbitcoiners.com#Bitcoin #CanadianBitcoiners #MichaelSaylor #MSTR #CryptoNews #BTC————————————————————————————————SPONSORS🔒 easyDNS — Canadian-owned, ICANN-accredited registrar that has accepted Bitcoin since 2013. Domains, DNS, email, hosting, all without selling you out. Use promo code **CBPMedia** for 50% off your first purchase, no limits.→ https://easydns.com⚡ Bull Bitcoin — Canada's non-custodial, Bitcoin-only exchange. Founded 2013 in Montreal. They never hold your keys; you self-custody from day one. CBP listeners get 25% off fees for life.→ https://app.bullbitcoin.com/registration/cbp🔥 256 Heat — Hashrate heaters: Bitcoin miners purpose-built to heat a space. Every watt of electricity becomes heat AND hashrate, so you're warming your space and stacking sats at the same time. Custom solutions available. Tell them CBP sent you for a discount.→ https://256heat.com🎓 Bitcoin Mentor — One-on-one coaching to take you from "I bought some Bitcoin" to true self-sovereign ownership. Wallets, keys, collaborative custody, inheritance planning, node setup, the whole stack. 30-day money-back guarantee on every package.→ https://btcmentor.io/aff/joey————————————————————————————————FOLLOW THE SHOW🎙️ CBP — https://x.com/CanadianBTCPod👤 Joey — https://x.com/joeytweeets👤 Len — https://x.com/thebtcpricebot————————————————————————————————Nothing in this show is financial advice.

Friends and enemies, the original duo is back tonight. We're going to talk about Mike Saylor selling more and making up some new ticker that's supposed to be money, basically anything except Bitcoin is money in the eyes of Mike. We're going to talk a little bit about the Bip 110 fallout, this idea that Luke is going to fire all the miners, rich, to say the least, which he will not be with his Bitcoins. And also some sad news out of Canada, although there's no shortage of that these days. getting shot by people who are already out on violent offense, parole, bail, you name it. Not a great time to be a Canadian, but it is a great time to be a CBP listener and viewer.

Here is the intro. Can you tell them out of practice? I meant to click. That's fucking old school, buddy. What's going on, man? What's going on? How the heck are you? I'm very good.

I love that. Okay. You know, Mondays are so, like they're packed for me. I work. I have to like take the dog out, see my wife, see my daughter basically between like four and four-forty-five. And then I have to do Ben Show from five till six-thirty. I go upstairs. I try and eat something.

I put my daughter down to bed, you know, try and catch my breath a little bit. Come down here and get back at it with you. But fuck, it's going to be back. Big show to Boomer who filled in admirably last week. I really appreciate that. It was on short notice. I was away. and there was no internet up there

and there's no library, there's no nothing. I called the library in town and asked if there was a place I could set up shop for a couple hours a few times during the week. Oh, there's nothing like that around here. The closest place was an hour away. And I thought, well, I'm not going to go to guys.

You should have told them that you're a asylum claimant and you need internet. They would have sent Rogers, down, the palace, they all came over. It's just fucking rolled out fiber optics right to your home,

fire to the node or to the home. I don't know where you go. So yeah, you did the wrong thing. You didn't find the right information. Maybe that's what I should have done. I didn't even really think about that. But for next time, we'll keep that in my back pocket. I am a trans-identifying immigrant, asylum seeker.

And I came here in a dingy last week. Anyway, it's good to be back. Good to see you. Good to see all you guys in the chat there. Where to start tonight except the sponsors? We have lots to talk about obviously. EZNS is our lead sponsor. Mark is the man with the plan when

comes to domain hosting. And also, as you probably know, there's a whole new batch of, there's a name for these things, but suffixes, basically like dot BTC, dot Bitcoin, I think you're coming available on that too, which is sick. He's working on that on the Easy DNS side. Don't forget as well, stuff like ClaudeBots available on EasyDNS, virtual private servers. So if you want to run the bot on someone else's machine there in the cloud and not risk your own sanity for one, but also your own data security.

time, all this other stuff. Mark's got you back there. BTC pay server. You can run Noster relays. Bitcoin nodes more important than never, even though I still don't run one. Don't throw your tomatoes at me. And of course, Len, you can get it all for 50% off your first round of buys. So if you are a listener, reviewer of this show, and you want to support us and you want to patronize Mark, start a business, get a website going. ECDNS.Ns.com. It's supposed to do it. You can check our new website, Canadianbitowners.com, where every Monday we upload the research brief written by AI, but at least looked over by yours truly. I think it's honestly, like, I tweak it a little every week. I tweak like the prompt a little bit every week. So I think it's

getting better and better. And you can download those, look through them. All the links that we use for the show research are in that document the morning we do the show. So you want to follow along. You want to come shoot the shit in the chat. You want to have some firepower behind you. Tell us wrong about something. Tell me I'm missing something in the research. That's the place to do it. We want to see you there. So visit that website. Who's second sponsor then? A third sponsor. I thought our second sponsor was our website. Third sponsor is Bull Bitcoin. And Bull Bitcoin is a great place to buy, great place to sell. Great place to pay your bills. Great place to send money to your folks, to your friends, to your whatever. You're doing with

this Bitcoin, right? Like, let's be honest. That's the hardest money in the, that we know of, at least. I love using it. You love using it. You could use lightning. You could use on-chain. On-chain fees are still very, very cheap right now. So I would suggest, not financial advice, of course, continually use on-chain. But lightning is there whenever the fees do go higher. So like I said, you can pay your bills with Bitcoin. You know, if you started stacking Bitcoin for many, many years, say more than six years ago because it was five years ago, I think the price is pretty much flat since then without taking into the consideration inflation.

You're doing pretty, right? What are you going to do with that Bitcoin? Might as well start paying some bills. pay your mortgage, pay your car payment, pay a credit card, whatever the heck it may be. So, Bull Bitcoin with their bill service will be able to facilitate that payment with your Bitcoin. You can send some money to your friends using Bitcoin and it ends up being up in their bank account. You do limit orders. You can do a lot of different things with Bull Bitcoin.

They're non-custodial, which is what you want in an exchange. You're going to get rugged eventually if you leave your corn on somebody else's exchange or on somebody's exchange. but Google Bitcoin, you can't do that. To do a buy, you've got to provide an address, a Bitcoin address. It may not be yours, but you have to provide a Bitcoin address. So check them out. If you haven't yet open an account, look at our link below. Do that, open it up, and you'll make all your buys and sales cheaper forever.

Let's check them out. Significantly cheaper, by the way. So we love that. Let's do some boost. We'll do a little housekeeping and hit the ground running here. One boost. It says it's from JIR-11-1-1-Sats. And just I love repetition.

And he says, I appreciate you both with a fist. Pomp Jare, buddy, appreciate you as well. I think he is very active on our CBP Discord. I'm in a couple groups with Jare. I'm in a few different group chats. Yeah. And I got to chair. I meant to tell you this.

I bought like I showed you in the Otis Bitmeyer coffee chat, a all metal percolator. And so the next time there's like grounds or beans ordered. I'm not in that shot. Yeah, I am. And so is he, it's like for coffee enthusiasts. I know you don't even drink coffee, I don't think, right? Yeah. I drink like one every three weeks, two weeks or something.

Yeah. So I've been meaning to look at these beans with a fresh set of eyes because I am trying to cut back the amount of caffeine I have something like three cups a day as opposed to what I was drinking, which is like five or six. And as I get older, basically everything I put in my stomach has like a different effect than the one it had when I was 30. And so I've been thinking about coffee predominantly, which is an easy thing to cut back on.

But naturally, when you cut back, you want to enjoy the cup of coffee more. And so I bought one of these percolators that Nona used to have. And I- Machinetta, the thing that you put on me. Oh, hell yeah, buddy, exactly. Yeah, it's nice. But it makes it very strong.

It depends on how much you put in. Like, you can sort of tweak it, but I like a strong coffee anyways. And so the curigs, you know, the reason I think I was drinking so much is because the curigs are a little bit, weaker. And so I want to be like on the cusp of a panic attack by like 10 o'clock. That's what I'm the most productive. I got the most juice. I'm the most fired up. And that's when I have the

best workouts too, which is another sort of benefit to that. Because as you know, I work out, you know, sometimes over the lunch hour there. So it's interesting to me that like now with this percolator, you can really like fine tune the coffee, the taste and the strength, which is like news to me. Shouldn't be, obviously, if I kind of think about it from first principles. This is an joy. This is, and so many people that they love, it's like wine. They obsess over it. Yeah, they obsess over it. Have you

ever seen the video of Fundamentals talking about coffee? No. It's honestly, it's really interesting. It's erotic. This, uh, yeah. Very strange. I'm happy that people, they like their, their drink. It's, you know what? It can be far worse

things that, which people can do. You know, we are in a chat where somebody is they know a family member that's gambling their family's fortunes away. Shit like that is brutal. Adding a cop of Joe, go nuts. I don't give a shit.

And then if you like it, if it's something you want to really dive deep into that, all the more power to you, brother. It's just another stupid, expensive habit that I'll wind up having. No, no, it's fun, man.

And you know what? I'm a hypocrite because I don't take part of it. I see these guys talking about the curing too. I know I was in Wilhelm, Declan. I see you guys. I know. drinking the microplastics. That's one of the reasons I wanted to stop too, but it didn't really drag me into the actual stopping until last week or two weeks ago. I guess I bought the perk later. But I'm loving it. I'm loving every minute of it. So great. Appreciate you, Jare. And we'll talk about Otis's next batch when that's ready. So Len, housekeeping. Boomer, big shout to you, buddy, for helping last week on the show. Like I said, super late notice. You are a more than capable co-host. And I have to say, Len, he's been getting reps on the 49th with our buddy business. Cap 49th Parallel podcast.

If you haven't checked that out. And I'll tell you, they're in a hiatus for the, I guess. They are, because they're doing a book club, I think, right? But, but, uh, you can tell he's been getting reps. The rhythm is nice.

The back and forth is nice. The timing. Very good. I, I liked listening to our show, uh, over the course of my vacation there. So I'm glad Corey was able to fill it.

That was great. I have nothing to say. I mean, that's all I got. That's all I got. What, what do I have to say? It's just, um, Another day. This is Monday. You know what? It's just

whatever. Let's get at it because there's I think there's more than I even provided you that we have to talk about. There's so much This guy's rubbing his foreheads, not even 10 minutes. And just the clown world stuff. I guess it's time to reinstate the clown world stuff

the name of that because it's so fucking it's so accurate. I don't know. No, but yeah, okay, we'll talk about MSTR. Like, you know, there's, there's been getting a lot of hype. This, I mean, well, at least maybe not hype, at least there's some news. But do you remember the hype, like not too long ago when, you know, you had the investor class out there. They were talking about MSTR, joined a NASDAQ 100, right?

I was among them. I was among them. And they were talking about the passive inflows and, you know, this flywheel and all this stuff, price discovery is going to go higher and all that shit. you know what, Len remembers and Len doesn't forget. These things they were talked about, they were discussed,

and a lot of people were pumping it. I can't remember you pumping it, to be honest. I just remember, I owned a bunch of MSTR. I owned a bunch of MSTR. Yeah. I just remember the chats we were just fucking people were going bananas.

But anyways, me and someone whose name I will not mention, but another Bitcoin. No, dude's been, he's reformed, I think. Anyways, pass forward a few months later, some eight, I guess, give or take. And you know, you look at the stock price, it has not been gangbusters, right?

And, you know, they're trying to do whatever they can to prop up the stretch at the expense of the MSTR comics, the common stock. So, you know, they like one, not the other, I guess in terms of price wise. But anyways, the common stock could take even a much bigger hit. Let me a slight bigger, slight hit, because, yeah, those ETFs, those mutual funds. that they're pumping money that are getting those MSCI's indexes, you know, it may not be there anymore because MSTR looks like the bear market is really impacting them. And they may get booted from the MCSI after all. MSCI, MSCI.

MSCI. And so I don't, I don't, I understand this. I understand the premise here. I understand what's going on here. The demand goes up when you're in there. price should go up when you're in there. I get that shit. But we really care in the end.

I would say not. The one thing that I just want to bring up, though, is this playground that's been built and it's been built by these Fiat people, they create the rules. They create who gets to play the game. They create all the different things over there. Who can participate? Who doesn't have to participate? Everything.

This is their playground, right? So they can do what they want, right? And if they say something you don't like, what are the options? They'll tell you to go pound sand, right? And pan sound you could fucking do. You can go pound sound all the, but I'll buy Bitcoin. That's what I'll do, but I digress. Nobody here should really be upset, you know, in terms of this.

Because like I said, this is their games. They could do what they want. It sucks that you're doing this. It sucks that MSTR may be a, a sacrificial lamb in this. He said it. He said it. It could be. But like I say, it sucks for them.

They were first to go through the door and they're going to first, that's going to get bloodied and get bloodied hard. But this is Fiat games. This is what they do. This is their rules. The beautiful thing, if you don't participate in you buy Bitcoin, you could do what you want. You want to burn

your Bitcoin? Burn it. You want to hold on to it indefinitely? Do whatever you want. Unlimited, options. Nobody could tell you what to do, unlike in these feed environments, good luck. I, you know, I'm not going to lose any sleep on this. You know, I've got enough on my plate to give me, to make me tired enough that I got to get my solid five hours every night. So this type of thing, it's not going to bother me. If you don't like it, I would say go complain at the next Q&A session between Sailor and the lady that's wearing the knee pads.

Maybe you could get into question. Maybe not. I don't know. Maybe that's going to, You'll be happy after that. I don't give a shit. Injustice, maybe. But in reality, who fucking cares? I watch the... Okay, a couple things first. Number one, I'm going to share this thing from a Saylor's Twitter account.

Digital assets from a monetary spectrum. This is made in Claude. This is a Claude graphic. It's either Cloud or Chachi BT. This one actually... What is that third one? That's Solana third thing. What the fuck is that?

Okay, so we'll talk about that in a sec. But that's not them. That's somebody else offering it. Well, so... I mean, what is the pragmatic difference between having this in a graphic from your chairman and offering it is very little in my opinion. Why don't fucking bring up a third party? Let me read the fucking graphics. More people listen than watch.

Let me read the fucking graphic. This is a tweet from, I think, today or yesterday from Saylor about the digital assets from a monetary spectrum. There's a four photo montage here. And what you have on the far left is BTC. they call that digital capital. STRC is digital credit. Then SR-STR-S-TR-C-USX, which is a Solana token, I believe.

And then finally, that's digital money. And then finally, USDT, Tether, is digital currency. I mean, I'm looking at this, and I see him calling basically anything but Bitcoin money, which is a far cry from where he was in 2020 and 2021, which is what all the Sailor Sims tell me I should be thinking about when I'm criticizing Mike.

Liz, he knows what he's talking about. But he's never called it money. Remember him and Breedlove, did 48 hours of podcasts about fucking what is money, blah, blah, blah. Unless I'm wrong, he's never called it money. He's always been calling the store of value. He also just put out a video where he says,

if God designed money, what would he design? He basically points to Bitcoin as an AI video, as you can imagine. But anyway, we'll go to that next. On the next slide, capital and currency define the spectrum. BTC, the ultimate store of value. STRC and SRSTRC USX.

Digital credit and digital money bridge the gap between capital and currency. There's a lot of like definitional dancing going on here. I love this slide. This is the best one then. STRC digital credit, semi-stable, high fixed income, store of value. Maybe have some concerns about that claim after the last few months. And then digital money is next. And the thing that brings STRC to digital money, SDRC, USX,

is financial engineering. What is going on at MSTR? Well, we can look at the call he had today with Fong and Natalie to find out. The questions were, I think, obviously softball, but Natalie's never going to ask cardball questions. I listen to a bit of it. You're brave. Natalie's not going to ask cardball questions.

I wanted to know because I got to look at what I'm up against here, right? And at this point, I'm going to stop criticizing Natalie Brunel for not asking. asking good questions because I don't think that's her function in the ecosystem any longer. That's number one. Number two is listening to Fong is different than listening to Mike. Fong looks downtrodden. Mike looks worried. And these guys, I think, are kind of on two sides of the same coin, but neither of them

are as euphoric as they were a year ago. Of course, for two reasons. Number one, the media and I think the Bitcoin space is kind of caught on to this cash cow being a little bit of a scam. And number two, the price is now 50% in Bitcoin and 75% for the year in MSTR. So, you know, when I look at those two things, I think, okay, these guys have changed their aura. They're no longer these, you know, moguls and media darlings that they were a year ago, to be expected, fair, unfair, or otherwise. The problem I have is with the answers to two of the questions specifically.

Number one is has the advertising that you guys have been doing for this quote unquote institutional capital with these AI videos about the retired engineer sitting poolside and some other stuff. I can't remember what other ones that brought up. But have these been effective ad campaigns? Fong and then Natalie asked like how do you know what an effective ad campaign looks like? And Fong, to his credit, made a good point. basically said, look, all we look at is the play counts, the click-through rates, the number of impressions, like we think they've been good for awareness. But if we're serious about marketing to institutional capital, this is not what marketing to institutional capital looks like.

Okay. Then later in the interview, Natalie said, with the stock down 75% for the year, like I said, by the way, the last question of the interview, instead of asking something, that's actually worthwhile and, you know, gives investors a little bit of insight. What do you guys like to do for fun? Guess what Saylor said? I wouldn't have a clue. Make AI videos. Oh. I want to see what the AI is capable of.

That little tidbit at the end is worrying to me if I'm an MSTR shareholder, which I am not anymore. If I'm an MSCR shareholder, this guy's been telling me for three years almost at this point that he used AI to build this entire multi-billion dollar capital and credit stack. And he's telling you that he's trying to figure out what. it can do now that he's doing uh you know that he that he's uh you know doing for doing a i videos with it that is very troubling very troubling and i just it just makes me laugh about it makes me laugh man that before we move on i want to uh i'm going to read this this uh comment

as well in a second but let's watch the video he made today and you can tell me if you think this is uh vintage sailor or if it's uh you know sailor who's lost the plot i'm going to move us over the side so we can see the whole video. I think you should be able to hear the sound. Tell me if you can hear it. Can you hear it? Okay. Let's watch it. It's in a different language by the way. He's having it translated. So here we go. When God say, I'm saying whether, I shaffer 1,000 million coins. And I log her in a bank in the Himmel. And I last I'm at every time senden. On every, so shone does the light. And I know ever, whom was heard. And I'm doing that for always gratis.

Kling that not like Bitcoin? What am I supposed to say about any of this at this point? Javol. What does that mean? We're fucked? Yes, sir. So, okay, a few things.

Let's pull the comments up here from the news show at MCL. Is SR, STRC, USX supposed to be written at the start or end of MMIW-L-G-T-B-Q-I-A 2-S-plus acronym? I actually think this is the name of a street in Vancouver now, isn't it?

S-R-S-T-R-C-U-S-X? Something different. It's indigenous. By the way, if you send us a super chat, we'll never see any of the money. Google takes all that money from us. So Greg, saying anything you said you guys would hate, untrue. Greg, I was an M-S-T-R guy. I liked Mike Saylor. You know, how can you like what he's doing now? You can't.

If he hypothetically order change and only purchased Bitcoin with with revenue that like after operating operating revenue. Just after everything he's got, I made 10 bucks. I buys 10 bucks of Bitcoin and he holds that self-custody. How could I complain about that? I would be,

I'd be a huge hypocrite if I complained about that. No, it's just there's certain things that people do and, you know, some of the things that he's been doing, well, his company, I don't want to say him specifically, that I'm just not a fan of. I don't like the fact that somebody else

is the custodial of all that Bitcoin. Now one can make an argument. And maybe a valid one at that, that there are some rules and regulations surrounding that. But still, you know, somebody has to pave the path. And clearly MSTR is not doing it. And two, the borrowing. And that works really well until it doesn't. I do not want to mortgage anything to buy Bitcoin because you don't know what's going to happen down the rule with the price of Bitcoin.

It could go down quite a bit and you're stuck and then you have to sell at a loss and then you're stuck. be responsible. Everybody, including companies, be responsible. Unless you're a money printer, just fucking go nuts. Because they should at that point, you know, central banks would do whatever the fuck they want. But that's what I want MSTR to do, to be responsible with their money and the self-custy.

Until then, obviously I'm not going to be the biggest fan. The interesting thing about all this, and someone in the chat just said it, I'll have a look here. It was, uh, Dethlin again. The thing is that if the price goes up, he will be saved,

Len, bad news. Like, we're sitting. at that 200 week moving average, you know, for an extended period of time at this point, 10, 12, 14 weeks. We just had our first, it feels like our first like 2% green day in forever. And, you know, Declan's right. And we've said this before. If the price trips, he gets bailed out and looks like a genius. He's back on CNBC. He's back on podcast. He's, you know, doing more shit with the debt structuring and the capital markets and whether or not he's right or wrong, you know, conceptually we'll never know because he just has this, you know, free exit.

I don't know. I really don't know what to make of the long-term MSTR shareholders at this point. They're getting, you know, diluted basically every week-ish, whether it's to buy Bitcoin or to buy back STRC or to raise cash. I don't know why you hold it. If you wanted exposure to this, there's other ways to get it maybe. Assuming you hold MSTR to be Bitcoin exposure or treasury company exposure, like is there a better way?

I'm not sure. I haven't really thought about it too much. But assuming that this strategy works long term, it hasn't for now. Like, I think that's a fair assessment. You know, you could probably point to over five years, MSTRs. I think up 50 percent in Bitcoin is. flat, right? There's, you know, there's, I think the beginnings here of people placing value on Bitcoin that's not necessarily attached to the price, like the freedom, the agility and stuff

like that, stuff that you and me have talked about for a long time. But a lot of people just think of it in the Fiat price as far as like the value prop. We'll see. We'll see. If, you know, they also said in June, you may remember that they would be net buyers of Bitcoin by the end of 2026. They would sell more or buy more than they sold. the year. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, assuming they sell...

We're in August now. They bought a ton of years here. They did. They did. He's basically got two weeks before he has to give... He's got two weeks left in this quarter, right? I think. August is the...

September's being in Q3. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. Yeah. So, Greg, I'll never disclose how much I buy. Why would I? It makes no sense. So it's a question that, you know, I'm never going to answer.

And you're right. You'll have all your ex-girlfriend. You'll like to. your ex-girlfriends at one time. Remember, with time, with experience, you build wisdom. And what was important to you maybe 10 years ago, at least for me, I don't know if the same thing for you, but I would imagine so. For me, what was important to me 10 years ago? It's no longer important now. Three years ago. And what's 10 years from now, like, I'm ever, you know, my mindset because I'm just a combination of the experience that I've accumulated, but also I try to

accumulate as much experience as others around me do as well. So I talk about for education quite a bit. So obviously, you know, my mindset is going to change. And I think yours too, Joey will change over time. So just the fact that we thought one way, one time doesn't mean we're stuck.

Totally agree. And we have to change. And yeah, it's we're human beings and we could evolve. Yeah. And we will continue to evolve. Just like Bitcoin evolves, right? And BIP 110.

I can't, this thing is getting out of hand, right? I can't believe this has gone to this point. Explain them. Explain this to me. I have completely forgotten about these guys already since I had a laugh and a beer on the patio last Saturday. I don't remember. I don't know what Luke is talking about now, firing all the miners, coming up with new ticker symbols for Bitcoin.

If you boil it down, the argument, and he is a spiritual leader of this whole movement. And I had to ultimately mute him on X because it was the constant message that, If you are using core or if you're following that or the message he called it or the coin he called it. I might get banned for this. We might get banned B pedal. That's what he called it. I don't know if this is going to be against you. I have no idea.

We'll find out. So the fact that if you hold on to that, if you run a node, you're automatically one of those people. That's bullshit framework. You're basically saying that you are the scum of the year just for having that. is that the truth? Do you buy that if you do? I don't buy it. You tell me what do the Node runners think?

Somehow looking at the adoption, I don't think they can. So that message, that's the message you're trying to put in there. So now Bip 110 comes out and all the shit coin is now going to be the result of this. We have the Blake to be mining the proof of work. You're going to dish, shelve the shot 256 and get this. And this is going to enable for GPU and CPU. miners to take control again. And traditionally, they also wanted, not to interrupt you, but they wanted to make sure that if

you run a node, you also are mining, right? They wanted to be baked into the software from here on now. I think I saw one of those guys say that. Yeah. Okay. That was a suggestion. You know, that if I don't know my too much about shit coins, but that is very Satoshi vision, a BSV thing.

Because if you, if you talk to those. And those guys are just fucking off the rocker, man. They say that only node runners are minors. Minors are node runners. They're, they're, you know, nobody else could be a node runner. You have to be a minor to be a node runner. So it sounds like this is the same type of thing. Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, that's, then that's very Satoshi vision.

It is big time. And it's not a, it's no longer a free node, right? Like you're not able to do what you want with your node. You're forced to run that implementation or that, like, feature in your, you know, these guys, they're, they're, they're, full of shit these guys with their oh we want to well this is that rug pulls the A6 for mining that because

it's for shot 256 yeah it's not for the Blake to be but doesn't mean that over time there would be a A6 that would be developed specifically for that is if there's a need capital will be allocated things will be done it just you're starting from scratch

you're going to where Bitcoin was say 15 years ago yeah and the rough next thing there there's still mining that altering. Are they a thousand blocks behind now? How far behind Yeah, I mean, quite

a bit, but they're still doing it. So the question I have is who's funding this? To do this, it's not free. No. Somebody has to allocate equipment, electricity. Matt Cratter had a video where he was encouraging people to donate, I believe,

to Roughnecks last week. So if that's what people are doing, like I can't imagine. I can't not imagine. What is worse? Sending mine to the Nigerian prince scam or sending sats to roughnecks, excuse me, to mine this shit coin. What, like, what are, what is wrong with people, man? I just, I don't get it. I do not understand the rationale here. Send help. Send help. And now you're talking about tail emissions. Yeah. Something else. Normal. I, I, you know, I, I understand the idea behind it, but the reality, this is not a problem that should be tackled, if it all

tackled today. There's other things that should be tackled first before you even deal with this. Yeah. Tail omissions will be wonderful to deal with in, I don't know, 80, 90, 100 years from now. Not, you know, by the time you figure out something now and when it's actually, when you're actually going to be using it, you may change your mind. you may change how things like fuck that and on top of that 21 million why why anymore why i bought into this because it's a cap right it's it's hard money when you start increasing the supply you're changing

the whole definition of what bitcoin is and my note is certainly not going to recognize that i only recognize 21 million bitcoin that's it you see everybody t gem in the chat quoting craters video intro this is Matthew Cratter. It always sounds like he forgets his name halfway through. I have to listen to it again, but I don't think I will because I muted him on X. So unfortunately.

You can still tune in. Bitcoin pumping 64,500. Thanks for the heads up, truth piece. I mean, look, the craters and, I mean, let's face it, the likelihood that any of these people actually sell, their original Bitcoin is very low. If they sell in the face of whatever this is or ends up being, they were never going to

help you move the mission forward anyways. That's really simple as. I've been critical to Crater, critical assailer, critical of all these guys for, you know, a year or more at this point. And the BIP 110 thing just helps. It should help you, whether you agree with me or disagree with me. It should help you focus on what the thinking and that sort of thought process. is around something as simple as, like you said, Len, could anyone who runs a node that's not,

you know, BIP 110 be called a pedophile? Well, no. But if anyone says that to you, it's immediately disqualifying in terms of their other opinions. Is it not? You should be able to understand that this same level of thinking is coming through on everything else this person says and does. don't forget everyone's got an internal filter okay so you never really know how dumb somebody truly is because the stuff that makes it through the filter ought to be the best stuff they got but you just have no idea how poor quality the stuff that's held back is I think you're seeing here that that floor is a lot lower than maybe a lot of us think um again this crowder stuff that I like there's mechanic stuff that I like Luke not so much um but even guys like bob burnet who's been on

this show a bunch friend of the show you know it was pro 110 has really has a balanced take on what happened and what he's going to do next. And ocean, obviously, same thing. Like, why can't everyone just be like that? You want consensus. You told us you had consensus that we were going to be the ones flying in the face of the reality of the situation, that everything was going to go your way and that we would have to make, you know, come in terms with this.

Well, in fact, the opposite happened, but now you don't want any of that for yourself. Okay, tells me what I need to know. We're good. We're all on the same page now. This is an example of you could spend years building capital and just minutes. Dump it. Dump it. This is what's happened here because some of the people involved, they had a, you know, maybe not a perfect history, but they've built enough legacy that people looked at them and revered them and then all of a sudden just because of actions, what they're saying and they're just burning it all.

It's so much like, in a way, Western nations. in terms of how they built up a, not only the empire, but like great countries. And they did so on the backs of people. And they didn't go into debt. They just did it right. And then, you know, they just fiat keep pumping out. And it's perverse the process. Yeah.

And it just, that's unfortunate. Now everything is just, and Western nations look brutal now, Bip 1-tenors. You know what? For me, I'll welcome. I'll welcome Bippers on the show, by the way. We're calling Bippers over on Bickas, calling Bipers here, too. I, dip one tenors, I'll call them. If they want to come back to this, to the, where we were before,

I'm more than happy to give a handshake to them and welcome them back. They've been calling you in a file. You're going to invite them back. But if they're continually calling me that, obviously not, right? But like if somebody, if they just realized, you know what, it didn't work. We tried. Nothing, venture, nothing gain. I can kind of respect that, kind of.

and then, you know, Bitcoin is the beautiful thing about it is, well, Bitcoin, you don't shun away anybody. Anyone want to run a node, you can. I'm the opposite. You can't disqualify somebody from running a node. I don't want to do that. But I don't have to invite them to speak at the conferences.

I don't have to invite them on the show. What does a conference have to do with anything? I'm just saying, like, you should have, there should be a price to pay, a social price to pay for the behavior. Sure. Sure, but don't give them a stage, but at least, I'll break bread with them. They can buy a ticket if they want,

but you can not get it on stage. But for the stage, bringing this fucking, this conference, who gives a shit? So let's talk about the Canadian Bitcoin conference, unfortunately,

is taking, right? And it's too bad, but the Canadian Bitcoin conference is not going to be going ahead this year. It's postponed. As posted on the subreddit

Bitcoin CA, the message is, hey, everyone, unfortunately, do primarily to the ongoing bare market, we are postponing the Canadian Bitcoin Conference and Industry Day this year. This was a difficult decision with many companies and sponsors under pressure and conference

attendance significantly down across the space. We don't believe we could have put up the high quality event. Our community reserves and so forth. They're going to be refunding money if you bought a ticket and so forth. And they hope to get this going again next year. So this is Beer Market Blues. They initially were trying to scale back to go from a conference that we all know to one, which was just going to be Industry Day. And that, even that is no longer the case. So no conference this year, maybe next.

Good luck to the people over there. And I've talked to Dan a little bit behind the scenes. And it's just, you know, this goes to show you how difficult it is to do anything in business when it comes to Bitcoin. And it's too bad because this was going to be. in our backyard in Toronto. So, oh, well. Okay, so yeah, I feel for Dan and Manuela, who try and put this thing on, Ben Schmidt,

was seen, like the entire team over there. This is a bunch of people, the guys and girls over there. I'm forgetting names. I shouldn't even said anyone besides Dan and Manuela. If there's interest, I'm planning on having Ben Schmidt come on for an MSTR chat sometime in the next week or so. And I think we're going to talk about this too,

because he was on the inside. He, you know, him and I spoke about some of the, the industry day planning and agenda stuff and, you know, some of the threads and themes that the conference was hoping to kind of put together for, for Canadians who wanted to attend. And I really do think that, you know, maybe unlike the American conference, who is more focused on like getting funding, biggest event will really widen the funnel, maybe in the, in the, not the best interest of Bitcoiners, at least in some opinions. these guys are really sort of mission focused.

And I will say that I'm curious to hear what Ben thinks about the idea that treasury companies were going to be at the focal point of the focus of the conference. And maybe what he also what he thinks about what effect that has on PLEBs. I'll give you my theory. And this is, of course, no disrespect to the conference organizers. I really love these guys. I've worked with them two years, you know, playing MC and other years. helping me to schedule and plan stuff. They risk their financial necks to do this.

Yeah, big time. Yeah, it's a net zero. It's a net zero. Regardless of what people like the pizza thief, you know, I'm not going to even say his name, but if you watch this show, you know what I'm talking about. It's difficult to plan a conference in the best of times. But what I think this conference has become maybe more than others is a place for Twitter names to buy a ticket, come hang out, and ask the questions that are being asked

back chats to people who are otherwise basically inaccessible because they're, you know, DMs and Twitter don't get through or you can't get through the replies. They don't answer emails that, you know, their contact info is difficult, whatever. You don't have a podcast, talk to them on. Who knows what the, what the question is? I can say that this has been true of my experience at the conference. I always, and I'm not even a big name, okay, but I'm a big enough name that every conference I go to, whether I host or speak or whatever, somebody always wants to talk to me and has questions. And it's not something you can just tweet back and forth about it's something in depth. Like, you know, what are you planning on doing as far as, like,

your family situation for the next few years? You're going to stay. You're going to go. What are you thinking about your TFSA, your RRSP and your daughters RESP? Things like this, I've been asked everywhere from the Canadian conferences to speaking engagements I've done, to Tom and Nicks, your Life, Your Life, Your Terms conference that they do every year or twice a year. Like, you name it. These people are honest dealers, have questions. And I think more than anything, they want to hang out with the people they speak with online and the friends they've made in Bitcoin and kind of do some things that they've talked about in these back chats, I love that. I don't think they want to do with treasury companies.

And it's not a knock necessarily on the treasury companies or the people who represent them. I don't think anybody who represents a treasury company is necessarily a bad guy. Ben Schmidt is a huge MSTR guy. Him and I talk about it on Twitter almost every time I tweet. Today he told me my tweets aren't going to age well. I still love Ben. Okay. We're shooting the shit after that via text.

Jeff Walton, same thing. Matt Cole, these guys have done Tom and Nick's show. I'm sure they would do ours if we asked, although we're not really doing interviews that often these days. These are all good guys. And I think they all have, at the end of the day,

you know, the road to Bitcoin 1 million looks different for all of them. You may agree or disagree with some of the stops and some of the winding pass, but you can't disagree with the intent. And I think it's clear, you know, even more clear in Canada that the Canadian side of Bitcoin,

which is always punched above its weight really does feel like this. The question for me about conferences remains, though, what should the focus of a conference be? Should the focus of a conference be the meta in terms of NGU? Or should it be, let's get everyone together and refocus on the mission, break bread, have a couple of beers along the way, and do some talks where people are not just playing the hits? The conference has been that every year.

Every year that I've been, whether I've been hosting or appearing, I have always felt that the things that are being said on stage are not things you're hearing on podcasts or anywhere else. People are speaking more freely. There's a different mix of people. And so naturally, when you change the ingredients of a cocktail, the taste is a little different. That's what you want. It's hard for the MSTR and related equity guys to have that same like hard hitting, new flavor, new ideas, conference appearances for two reasons. One is because they're all sort of playing from the same playbook.

they're only different on the margins. And number two is because they are heavily regulated as publicly traded companies terms of what they can say. So all that to say, I am super, super disappointed at the conference being canceled. But like Dan said, this is a difficult time for a lot of people. Even if we had a conference in place that was really PLEB focused, I think a lot of PLEBs are feeling the pinch, you know. Toronto is a big place and it's a great place to have a conference. and the international center is a good conference venue,

but it's expensive to have a conference in Toronto. If you want to go somewhere that is like the hub of business in the country, it's expensive. It's not the Rialto theater in Montreal, right? It's the big thing near the airport, near downtown, near whatever. You know, it's not an hour from anything of, not more than an hour from anything important. Those are difficult places to have conferences if you can't raise money through ticket sales. Well, it's ticket sales isn't the driving factor, really.

It's a lot of it is corporate sponsorships. Yeah. So, and if you're, if that's going to be, you got to be able to tell the sponsors you're selling tickets, right? If you're not selling tickets, they're, you know, they're going to say, okay, well, I don't know how the contracting works, but there's a certain, there's a hand in hand and all that, a hundred percent. But if you're going to look at the breakdown in terms of revenue that's coming in, I don't know specifically. I have not in the inside, but I would imagine a smaller fraction is going to be coming from ticket sales and a larger amount is going to be coming from stuff like sponsors. significantly larger. So that's really what's going to be driving everything.

So once that dries up, there's nothing that can be done. There's nothing that can save it unless you're going to be moving to a much smaller, much cheaper venue and try to go from, but how profitable if ever will that be? You just essentially just burning money just to have a big Bitcoin meetup. I mean, Dan and Manuela don't need conference money, right? Like these guys, without getting in details. They're both professionals. But nobody wants to lose.

Nobody wants to give money away, exactly. They want to break even or close, right? You make a little some years, lose little some years. Like, I don't think anyone really minds. But the point is you can't be dropping five figures on a conference. That's not palatable. So I haven't talked to Dan. We're going to do, I think, a bit of a post-mortem at some point.

Maybe he wants to come on the show. He's more than welcome, of course. And I'll tell him as much if we ever speak about this. But, you know, I think that we got the best conference team around. It's dedicated. It's small. And it's always got a tier of the pavement. in a way I think a lot of other conferences don't necessarily, but also don't have to.

Because let's face it, you know, who's not going to the Bitcoin conference in Vegas or Tennessee or whatever if they don't get an invite? Basically no one. Especially on the, you know, institution, corporation, whatever side. So yeah, hopefully in 27. Let's discuss shake pay because they introduced two new products this past week. It's big, man. And just preface this. Remember BlockFi.

I remember Celsius. Remember all this stuff before anybody wants to look at any of this stuff. So we have the ShakePay Savings, number one, and the Block, BLOC, and that's a Bitcoin-backed line of credit. So, number one, the savings account. With that, you can put cash in there. It's CDIC covered up to $100,000, which I believe is in line with other accounts with, like, a traditional bank with, say, like TD Bank or whatever. I believe that's the same type of CDIC coverage you get, but I digress. So with that, with a limited time, just saying that shake pay blue customers,

so the blue customers can earn interest of 5% under first $100,000 that they put in there, which seems to be rather attractive if you have a lot of money just sitting around doing nothing, but then whatever. So it's going to be going down to 3%, from what I understand, after this whole initial thing is done. So it's, you know, I guess more in line with traditional savings account based on today's rates, but I haven't really looked at bank savings. Anyways, the one that I think is more appealing to some people. But like I said, remember to sales just remember the block files of the world. This is the shake pay Bitcoin back line of credit.

It gives people the ability to get credit secured by Bitcoin. You know, you're going to give Bitcoin. You're going to get some money back as a return. So you could borrow up to $50,000 and the APR is 9.5%. So keep that in mind, too. So these are the two new products that are being offered. ShakePay seems to be going towards that neobank style of products that they're trying to offer. They're trying to have people deposit their checks, your weekly or biweekly checks directly over there.

So they're trying to make it as more of just a banking. experienced, but a little bit more than that. Interesting. But like I say, be careful because there's a lot of history here about people getting rugged with these type of products. I'm not saying that you will

get with Shake Pay, but if it happens, I'll just be, you know, whatever. I don't think this is quite as bad as something like Blockfire Celsius. I see you guys talking about Celsius in the chat. I don't think it's quite as bad. These guys are more tightly regulated. They have

some of the banking licenses required in Canada to do some of this stuff. They got them, you know, months ago. Silicon Valley Bank was also highly regulated. Yeah, but Silicon Valley Bank was forced out of business by the government, not by, not by its deposit or anything else. Wasn't it, they went heavily into digital asset type companies? It's a longer story than that. It's a longer story than that. It's a, it was a question of whether or not they had to mark the market their debt. And also, I think about the requirement that they had to keep some amount of short-term paper. You can look that up. Nick Carter is a good thing on that or did a good thing on that years ago. But that was, that bank was forced out of business by the U.S. government.

I'll die on that hill to make an example as part of showpoint 2.0, in my opinion. So this is, this is better than most uncollateralized LLCs, right? I think an uncollateralized LLC is probably a 12 or 13% if I had to guess for an average Canadian. I don't know what the limit on that would be, probably not 50 grand. Look, the question is, it's really twofold, right? The question is, can you make a good decision if this loan moves against you? Will you do the right thing and settle the loan before it's too late? You mean the LTV goes the wrong direction?

That's right. That's right. Because that's really the biggest possibility. Like if you, you have to have extra Bitcoin to take the loan. The fact that that's even in the equation is the, I'm not saying, one of the major reasons why for you,

for you and me, I know, Len, for you and me, it's a different story, right? Like you and me have houses, have savings, have Bitcoin,

whatever. No, and I get that. I get that. Some people don't. So like, if you're, and I've said this a million times,

if you think that Bitcoin is going to become this big international asset and it has, then you're going to see institutions open the door to stuff like this for two reasons. Number one, because they want that new market that doesn't have a house, doesn't have savings, doesn't anything. They want to get a piece of that pie. And number two, because you have to start recognizing these assets, given that a huge chunk of the economy runs on leverage that this now new investor group

is not able to get through traditional means. So you have to open it up to this. I guess paying bills or projects or whatever. Projects. We know people out there Maybe you want a down payment on a house, right? Could be. Maybe you want 50 grand, I don't know.

We know people out there that have used Bitcoin, paid bills with it, and has never declared it to the government. Now, I'm not saying you should do that, but I'm saying people have done that. And so they are not subjected to something like this. Is that the right decision to make over long enough period? You wouldn't get to enjoy a price rip if you sold your Bitcoin.

You would be able to enjoy a price rip if you did this. You wouldn't have to sleep and worry about if the, price goes down and are you going to be able to cover your your your um yeah your your l tv so like what i'm trying to get at is you know if you're going to if you're going to expose it i would say somehow i mean again maybe my very narrow mindset is liquidate it then at least that way you don't have to deal with whatever happens with the price you're done with it and you can still recover it. Alternatively, just get a normal

loan. You don't have to expose your Bitcoin. And just slowly pay off that. Can you get a $50,000 loan uncollateralized? I doubt it. I doubt it. You don't know. Could you use, I mean, it's not at fucking

9% that's for sure. See, I don't know what is the right answer here. Aside from, I would stay away from this as much as possible. is I do not want my keys held by anybody else until it's time for me to exchange that for a good or a service. Until then, I do not want to do that because for me, I hold that dear to my heart. And when I have somebody else hold on to me and they give me cash as a return in this or give me whatever sort of carrot, no, man, it's not, it's not munching.

It's not tasty enough for me to bite into. I would never do that. But do what you want. But like again, history, you know, you look at history, I have a pretty clean record. And if you're going to follow the advice of somebody, look at what they've done. And then if somebody's, they say it, they live it, and they never got rugged. You know, that's pretty sound advice, I would say. But I do whatever.

Everybody, I don't care, do whatever you want. Yeah, NFA, like always, right? you have all the information available. You could soak it all in. You could ask chat. You could ask people on Twitter. You could get all this information, absorb it, digest it, and figure out what's best for you.

And hopefully it is. But again, just in my humble opinion, I'm going to stay away from this as much as possible. T-GEM in the chat saying that you can get a 30K unsecured line of credit from Tandrine at 6.45%. I have not used tangerine for many things. But, yeah, we have an account there, obviously. Um, yeah, this is a product for people who bought Bitcoin on credit cards in 2013 to ruin their credit.

Fuck, maybe I wouldn't be surprised by that either. If people are in over their head on their BTC ventures from that era and have no credit left, then maybe, remember you used to be able to buy Bitcoin on credit cards on Coinbase? Yeah, that's initially how I got it. That was wild. Yeah, same. Because you can use, you couldn't use debit in Canada. That's right. And so to go back, I'm, you know, I'm happy there are options.

one thing I'd like to see is there are things you can do. I don't want to be put in a corner and have no options available to me. Let's have options, but be careful with what option you take. The safest route, the most conservative route, is to never have your keys given up to somebody else. If you hold on to them, you know for sure, unless you didn't roll the dice, that you have access to your Bitcoin moving forward.

And to me, I like that. again, I work hard. I do a lot. I got myself at five hours sleep. And one thing I don't think about is my Bitcoin. I know it's there. I don't have to expose it. But you're right.

Every position's different. Everybody's different. You just don't know. Be careful. You know, I just with, I don't want to hear stories of people getting rugged. Because it's sad when I do it hear about it.

You know, there's one story I'll bring up quick. Somebody that ordered, sorry, that they were a cold card. user. This guy, well,

he's a friend of his, Reardon, on X, he posted something interesting. And he was saying that he, oh, sorry, this is somebody.

That's my bad, different story altogether. This guy came out and he said that there was a cold card issue. So he moved the cold card, the Bitcoin from that cold card onto an exchange. And that exchange was hacked. Well, not exactly.

It was, his account was hacked. Is Google, his Google account was. hacked. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, I did a poor job. Don't make a move when your hair's on fire, man. That's the, be careful. So even if you think you have, uh, everything set up properly, that you're, you have a two FAA that the exchange is going to, this was an Australian exchange.

It only took a few hours for it to be all wiped out. It was three a.m. when it was done. So the guy was fucking sleeping and it's, it's just too bad, right? Like, be very careful. That's another thing. When they give up their keys, they gave up the. keys to have it leave on an exchange. Thinking that the exchange is going to be fine. And normally it would be, but until somebody gets access to the Google account, and they did. Sad story.

I have no idea how much was lost. No. But, you know, if it's a significant amount, that's, it's really sad. It's too bad, man, that this is still going on in the wake of the cold card thing, in the wake of, you know, a million other vulnerabilities, the treasurer fucking data leak if you're European.

Yeah. So, US, Sweden, Colombia, Brazil, Brazil, Italy and Portugal. So U.S. and Colombia, Brazil, in South Africa. Absolutely brutal. Yeah, so they were using Shipmunk.

So if you ordered a device between May and August, May 10th and August 8th, you're potentially impacted. They say 11,000 customers, names were fully exposed because Shipmunk, that was the company responsible

for shipping the products, they were hit with a data breach, full names, shipping addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, all taken. And those are 11,000 customers had that and another almost 2,000 partial exposure, name, city, and email. This is going to be a bunch of new fishing attempts coming out as a result of that.

People are going to send you an email. You understand you, I'm saying in general. Whoever did they ever order it, you get an email, click on this, and it's going to ask you to punch in your 12 or 24 words, and people will be dumb enough to do that, and minutes later, their Bitcoin is going to be gone. This is sad, but this is the reality. Everybody's after your Bitcoin. Everybody's after your Bitcoin. fucking never give it up.

It's not worth anything, but everyone's after it. Don't forget. Let's go over to the other side of the equation here. If you're with us on video audio. Dude, there's so much. There's Zeus. There's bolts. Do you hear about what's going on in bolts? Zeus, bolts, BTC pay server, the safe pal shit coin wallet.

The bolts one is fucking interesting. It's going to get more interesting over the next few weeks, I think. It's smaller. Yeah. They were, essentially, they're no longer doing their thing. and someone else took it over Anonymous people took it over They headed the keys over to an experienced group

Of geez Yeah But we don't know who they are No At least from my research I couldn't find out who they are So Bolts apparently Their customer funds were never lost

So and it was all due I think it was due to the BTC pay server That's the zoo store Either way, whatever No Bolt was hit by the AI AI is going after them And yeah, so now the old guard is gone.

The new guard is in. We have no idea who the fuck they are. They say it's a veteran group of Bitcoiners. They're going to be helping it with capital and the engineering resources. This is interesting. Bolt was an awesome feature before. The KYC free where you could convert. It's a huge thing, man.

To on chain or vice versa. That was amazing, especially, you know, if one potentially mined Bitcoin and got paid on a daily in lightning, And, you know, after a few, you know, months, you could convert it to on-chain using this service. It was, you know, theoretically wonderful. But, oh, man, it's gone. Stay with us. And don't forget if you're on audio and not with us live, come back tomorrow for the back half. We will see you in a second.

And don't be a cock.