The Canadian Investor - BoC Cuts Rates Amid Tariff Uncertainty and Big Tech Reacts to DeepSeek

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

In this episode, we discuss the recent cut of 25bps by the Bank of Canada, bringing the overnight rate to 3%. We break down the key takeaways from Tiff Macklem’s press conference, the uncertainty surrounding tariffs, and why QE could be back on the table if government spending ramps up. We also break down big tech earnings from Meta, Microsoft, and Apple, analyzing what’s driving their growth and how their AI investment strategies are evolving now that they’ve had nearly two weeks to assess DeepSeek’s newly released LLM. Finally, we discuss the latest results from CP and CN Rail, why Dan sold his CN shares for CP, and what the numbers reveal about the broader economy. Tickers of Stocks/ETFs discussed: CNR.TO, CP.TO, MSFT, AAPL, META Check out our portfolio by going to Jointci.com Our Website Canadian Investor Podcast Network Twitter: @cdn_investing Simon’s twitter: @Fiat_Iceberg Braden’s twitter: @BradoCapital Dan’s Twitter: @stocktrades_ca Want to learn more about Real Estate Investing? Check out the Canadian Real Estate Investor Podcast! Apple Podcast - The Canadian Real Estate Investor  Spotify - The Canadian Real Estate Investor  Web player - The Canadian Real Estate Investor Asset Allocation ETFs | BMO Global Asset Management Sign up for Finchat.io for free to get easy access to global stock coverage and powerful AI investing tools. Register for EQ Bank, the seamless digital banking experience with better rates and no nonsense.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You are listening to this on Monday. It's not our usual release date because we are recording this a bit in advance on Friday, January 31st. But I think our timing is quite good because there was a lot to talk about this week. A lot of stuff happened, whether it's Deep Sea, the fallout with Big Tech reporting, what they had to say about that. The Bank of Canada cutting rates by 25 basis point. The Fed also added rate announcement this week as well. So a lot of to talk about. There's also some Canadian companies reporting. We'll be talking about CP and I think you'll also compare it a little bit to Canadian National Rail.

So I think our timing is pretty good because it was a jam-packed week and a lot of stuff to talk about. It'll be a fun episode, will probably take a full hour. Oh yeah, for sure. Especially it's all kind of hit us. You know, there wasn't much last week outside of the DeepSeek news, but now there's, they're pouring in and Big Tech is particularly interesting, just on the comments of that.

I mean, I don't know, Microsoft was kind of a little bit, they didn't really mention all that much, but I guess we'll get to that when we speak on them. But it's gonna be an interesting episode. They did? Meta did talk about it. Not upfront, they had to answer some questions, but they definitely talk about it. Okay. Not upfront. They had to answer some questions, but they definitely talk about it. So it'll be interesting to get your opinion on that too. I listened to the Zuck on the call.

Zuck. To see what Zuck, what he had to say. But let's get started with some more Canadian content here with the Bank of Canada cutting rates. The cut of 25 basis point brings the overnight rate to 3%. It's clear that the BOC isn't sure what to do when it comes to potential tariff and if you listen to press conference it's clear that they have no idea what they'll be doing. I'm not saying that they're incompetent or anything like that, it's just there's so much uncertainty if you've listened to Trump during the campaign and since he was elected He's changed his tune on the percentage of tariffs that could be applied to Canada and Mexico on the timing of it It's changed quite a bit used to be that he was saying the first day of inauguration

They would be imposed and February 1st and you were saying that now there's mentioned that could be March 1st And oil and gas could or could not be exempt. So February 1st and you were saying that now there's mentioned that could be March 1st and oil and gas could or could not be exempt. So we see that there's a lot of uncertainty around that and being in TIF's shoes or the Bank of Canada's, I mean, I can see how it would be difficult for them to try and figure out what to do. So they'll have to be more reactionary, lack of better words.

I don't think there is any other way because the tariffs could have a big impact, but they also said that they have limited ability to soften the blow. And I'll talk a little bit more about that if there's anything you wanted to add before I continue. No, I mean, I guess the one thing I'll say is I've gotten a lot of,

I've gotten a lot of questions, particularly people like asking, you know, what should I continue? No, I mean, I guess the one thing I'll say is I've gotten a lot of, I've gotten a lot of questions, particularly people like asking, you know, what should I do? And it's just, it's impossible to tell. Like it's impossible to tell because it's impossible to know what he's going to do. I mean, there's a few- I'm not even sure he knows himself. But he's- I mean, there seems to be one industry in particular that, I mean, I would guess is almost guaranteed to get hit and that would be lumber. And the only reason I say this is because he's mentioned it a few times, like we don't need Canadian lumber, things like that.

So, but I mean, who knows, who knows what the percent will be the day he imposes them. I mean, like, like I said, it's changed to March 1st now when at first it was, you know, day one it's going to happen and everybody was freaking out. Exactly. And for the bank of of Canada what they've said is they stated that tariffs could indeed be inflationary but I could also put some downward pressure on the Canadian economy which would be

deflationary. So they're kind of saying they're stuck between a rock and a hard place without saying that out loud. In other words, they said they have to strike a balance between not being too restrictive with rates in order to stimulate the economy but restrictive enough that they also keep a lid on inflation. So again, it's not an easy thing to do when you have that big tariff threat from the US looming over your head. tariff threat from the US looming over your head. You wouldn't rule out quantitative easing and quantitative easing for those not familiar with it it's referred to QE and for lack of better words essentially where the Bank of Canada would print money to buy assets typically will be government

bonds but they there are higher central banks that have bought other things than just government bonds. And what they'll do is they'll print money, they'll buy those bonds, which will push the price upwards of the bonds, but the yields down further down the curve. So when the Bank of Canada sets the overnight rate, that's just the short end of the rate. So it's typically things if you have a variable rate mortgage or variable debt will be impacted by that. But if you have fixed debt that's longer dated, it will usually be impacted by the bond market and the rates that are on the Canada five-year bond, for example.

So if they start doing QE, they could potentially push down the interest rate on the longer end, which could be stimulative, especially if the federal government does some stimulus to support industries that could be affected by tariffs. Because if they start spending more and more money, which they are already spending quite a bit, at some point there's gonna be a lack of buyer on the bond market for Canadian bonds. And if there's a lack of buyer, then the buyer of last resort becomes the central bank the Bank of Canada Yeah, I was wondering like I didn't actually get a chance to listen to this But did they mention anything about like the relief package that was rumored?

No, they I think there were some questions, but they always try to stay away from anything political Yeah, and they didn't say that they would do QE from anything political. And they didn't say that they would do QE. They just said that it is something that they could consider, but they had plenty of room to maneuver with the policy rate. But they also, when they were asked about QE,

they also did not rule it out. So it's basically a non-answer, which if you understand political talk, it means it's not off the table. Like that's essentially what it pretty much. Yeah, exactly. And Tiff was clear during the press conference that they can't offset the pain from tariffs, but they can help the economy adjust to that. So he was doing his usual gestures with like, you know, going down for people watching on the Doin CCIs, they'll see, but he does talk with his hands quite a bit.

So essentially they're trying to soften the blow of potential tariffs if they do happen. And in the end, the main takeaway here I think is they'll focus on the data. If they see upwards pressure on inflation, they'll have to try and combat that. And if they see downward pressure on inflation and the economy is really slowing down, they'll try to stimulate the economy.

At the end of the day, you have reporters still asking what they'll do with interest rates. I mean, they can't answer the question because they don't know themselves. So it's just interesting to see those type of questions still coming up and the lack of understanding of some of these reporters that get credential is just baffles me because why would you ask this question when it's clear that they don't know themselves like they won't tell you what they'll do they don't even know yeah they kind of try to bait answers out of

them I mean it's kind of the same with any interview they kind of try and pick at you and try to get an answer out of you, but they're not going to get an answer out of them. I mean, I've seen some kind of I don't know if they're good sources or not, but they kind of said that the policy rate in Canada could go down to 2%. You know, I believe it was like midway into 2026. I mean, that would be that'd be pretty low, especially when you consider the fact that you'll talk about it now is the fed isn't moving like the fed is not the fed they're just not reducing rates. So yes the fed ended up standing path for interest rates so they did not cut rates like we had mentioned at the beginning of the episode.

I did not listen to the full press conference because of course it was a jamed week for us but I read some of the the summaries that what happened and what was interesting afterwards was really what Trump said because he was not happy that the Fed led the rates unchanged since he had said the Fed should be cutting rates in the last couple weeks I don't remember exactly when and Trump can be quite vocal. So a lot of people were surprised that the Fed didn't budge but again not that surprising because they're focusing on the data and I think they're still unsure where exactly the data is going in terms of inflation but also the

economy over there and they always have that dual mandate of getting inflation in check within their target around 2% but also ensuring maximum employment. And what is really interesting is if you start looking at the CME FedWatch tool, really, really good tool for those interested in seeing what the market is pricing in. And what you're seeing right now is that the market is actually pricing in two cuts for this year for 2025. So the highest probable outcome is two rate cuts at 87% and then the next one on the list would be one rate cut at around 13%. So you're looking at the US and I think there's a high probability that the gap,

the interest rate differential between Canada and the US will stay quite high because even if the Bank of Canada stood path for the rest of the year at 3%, you'd still be looking at is that there's a good chance that the Bank of Canada will continue cutting. And of course, the Fed could cut aggressively as well, and it could narrow down. But if we're looking at things that it is right now, I think it's fair to put a decent probability that the interest rate differential between the two countries will at least remain

as wide as it currently is, but could potentially get even bigger. Yeah, I think the Bank of Canada is probably going to have to... Like the economy is kind of bad enough already, and then we haven't even factored in the potential impacts of tariffs either. So I would imagine the Bank of Canada is going to go lower. I don't know if you watched the Trump interview where they ask him about the the interest rates and he's like no I did not see he's like I'm gonna get interest rates down and the reporter was like

Do you think they'll listen to you? He's like I'm gonna tell him to get interest rates down And the reporter was like you think they'll listen to you and he just paused for two or three seconds. He's like, oh, yeah Yeah, it was it was hilarious because they're supposed to be independent. They're supposed to be independent like they're yeah like the Bank of Canada Fed they're not really supposed to they're supposed to be an independent entity I mean I imagine there's a lot of a lot of pressure on them but they're not supposed to you know kind of cut rates or raise rates based on yeah it's they're not. They know I think that's BS They're supposed to rate up

They're supposed to be but even in Canada, right? Like they will often times say they don't want to comment on government spending but every now and then they're like, yeah It's not they'll kind of mention things where they're taking jabs at the government for overspending, for creating looser regulations when it comes to mortgages. Yes, they say they're not political, but then they're not afraid at saying some things that can definitely be interpreted political in nature. And even sometimes with their action, I know there's a lot of people in the U S that said the Fed was trying to get Biden reelected. That's why they were cutting rates pretty relatively aggressively, not as much as the Bank of Canada in the back half of last year, whether that's true or not, we'll see.

But the fact that it's independent, I mean, it's more independent than I think in some countries, but it's not fully independent. I think that's, that's completely that's fantasy land in my opinion, at least. Well, especially you see a lot of Canadian politicians when rates go down, they kind of comment on how they kind of got the rates lower when in reality, yeah, they're supposed to be independent, but they're not. No, exactly. Welcome back into the show. This is the Canadian Investor Podcast, made possible by our friends and show sponsor EQ Bank, which helps Canadians make bank with high interest

and no fees on everyday banking. We also love their savings and investment products like GICs, which offer some of the best rates on the market. I personally, and I know Simone as well, is using the GICs on a regular basis to set money aside for personal income taxes in April of every year. Their GICs are perfect because the interest rate is guaranteed. And I know I won't be able to touch that money until I need it for tax time. Whether you're looking to set some money aside

for a rainy day or a big purchase is coming through the pipeline or simply want to lower the risk of your overall investment portfolio, EQBank GICs are a great option. The best thing about EQBank is that it is so easy to use. You can open an account and buy a GIC online in minutes. Take advantage of some of the best rates on the market today

at EQBank.ca forward slash GIC. Again, EQBank.ca forward slash GIC. As do-it-yourself investors, we want to keep our fees low. That's why Simone and I have been using Questrade as our online broker for so many years now. Questrade is Canada's number one rated online broker by MoneySense. And with them, you can buy all North American ETFs, not just a few select ones, all commission free, so that you can choose the ETFs that you want. And they charge annual RRSP or TFSA account fees.

They have an award winning customer service team with real people that are ready to help if you have questions along the way. As a customer myself, I've been impressed with Questrade's customer service. Whenever I call or email, every support rep is very knowledgeable and they get exactly what I need done quickly. Switch for free today and keep more of your money. Visit questrade.com for details. That is questrade.com. Here on the show, we talk about companies with strong two-sided networks make for the best products. I'm going to spend this coming February and March in an Airbnb in South Florida for a combination of work and vacation and realized, hey,

my place could be a great Airbnb while I'm away. Since it's just going to be sitting empty, it could make some extra income. But there are still so many people who don't even think about hosting on Airbnb or think it's a lot of work to get started. But now it is easier than ever with Airbnb's new co-host network. You can hire a local quality co-host to take care of your home and guests. It's a win-win since you make some extra money hosting on Airbnb but can still focus on enjoying your time away. Find a co-host at airbnb.ca forward slash host that is airbnb.ca forward slash host. So no that's about it for the feds so I'll let you continue while I'm trying to arrange my desktop will not go down anymore

Yeah, so I did I initially did Canadian Pacific, but then CN rail reported So I kind of like bundled them in together and kind of like put numbers side by side and I'll go over both of them so CP rail reported revenue of three point eight seven billion and earnings of a dollar twenty nine So those earnings were over and above while the revenue was kind of right in line with what was expected. CN Rail on the other hand reported revenue of $4.35 billion and earnings of $1.82. So both of those actually came below analyst estimates. And with CP Rail over the last like year or so there's been a lot of adjusted results and combined results because of that Kansas City Southern acquisition they made, but now it's kind of more that company's

integrated now, so we can kind of look at year over year numbers on a stable basis, I would say. Revenue grew by 3% and earnings by 9%. So for CN Rail on the other hand, revenue only grew by 1% and earnings actually declined by 2%. And the interesting thing here is CN Rail is, I guess it's kind of more shareholder friendly, I guess over the last while, like whether it be to their detriment or to their, you know, benefit, they're a big, big buyback, they do huge buybacks, and they do a lot of dividend raises. Whereas ZP hasn't really done that over the last while. I mean, they're, they're not really

that consistent dividend grower that CN Rail is. But the thing here is, is most of CN Rail's earnings growth over the last while, or actually in this case, the softer earnings decline is because of share buybacks. It's ultimately increasing that earnings per share number, whereas CP Rail, they haven't really bought back any shares. They haven't really raised the dividend. I mean, it's allocating a lot of capital back to debt. Which is a good move. Yeah, it's definitely the more prudent move and I mean, for me, the dividend growth is kind of irrelevant to the point, especially when the debt levels remain high,

but they're allocating all that back, they're not buying back shares and they're still increasing earnings by 9%, which is like, I think this quarter was a big separator as to the better performing railway, just CP Rail. I mean it's hard to defend CN in this quarter, like CP Rail just had, I mean a much better quarter overall. I know you got a chart here of total revenue for what?

CP? Yeah. Yeah, that's for CP and I can put it on as well for CN Rail here. Yeah if we look to actual efficiency so we look to CP so the weight per car increased by 4% the length per car increased by 4% and their fuel efficiency actually increased by 1% so the cars are heavier, the cars are longer, but they're getting more fuel efficiency. And for CN Rail, there was actually small declines

across the board in all of these. So the weight per car went down, the length went down and the fuel efficiency went down. It's nothing major. They were very, you know, very small single digit increases. When we looked at car loads, they dropped 4% at CP rail versus around 4.6 at CN rail. So for the most part, both of these companies were impacted in things like coal, potash, fertilizer, metals, intermodal. Intermodal, I think, would be more heavily dependent on like

consumer activity. And this is just simply a result of a slower economy. Not really much either railway can do about any of this at this point. But the one thing is, despite lower volumes, CP offset these declines with a 7% increase in revenue per carload, while CN rails was effectively flat. So in CP's case, it's definitely, you know, it's kind of helping to shore up revenue during this economic downturn. And the thing is revenue per carload is unlikely to drop in the future. It could maybe flatline for a bit,

but I mean, these railways, they're effectively, they have such dominant moats. I mean, they can effectively charge what they want to. So if you think about it, when the economy does pick back up again and those carloads go up, it's likely, you know, these, you know, increase in the revenue that they're charging per carload will be effectively realized in stronger growth when things return. So CP is actually forecasting 12 to 18% earnings per share growth next year. CN Rail on the other hand issued, I believe it was 10 to 15% this year,

but they expect, I believe by the end of 2026, they want a high single-digit compound annual growth rate on earnings. So, I mean, it's clear that CP Rail is a lot more bullish, I guess you could say, on the future. Maybe that is because of the Kansas City Southern acquisition. I mean, there, you know, there's a lot of integrations there that are probably going to help the company moving forward. CP again, as I mentioned at the start, they continue to prioritize debt reduction.

So its leverage ratio went from three point. This would be, I mean, I would imagine I didn't actually look at the leverage, but it would be some sort of debt to adjust the EBITDA more than likely so that went from 3.4x to 3.1x CN rail expects their leverage ratio to be maintained around 2.5x but I mean these you can think that you know CP is a little bit higher leverage and they are right now but prior to the the acquisition they were relatively similar debt structures. And I mean, once the debt is at manageable levels, CP will likely resume share buybacks and raise dividends to kind of get more shareholder returns. CN Rail guided to a mid single digit dividend raise in

2025, and they actually raised the dividend by 5% which is actually their lowest dividend growth rate in a very long time. They're typically a bigger grower than this but overall I mean to me at least CP Rail is the clear standout here from a performance standpoint. I actually ended up, I've owned CN Rail for a very long time, like a very long time and I actually ended up selling it today and I purchased CP just because I think they, bit better performer right now and kind of a bit more, you know, in my eyes, a bit more with acquisition,

wider network, more growth prospects for the future and just like more, they're more prudent, I would guess, with that debt reduction. Whereas CN is, is you know they're dumping a lot of money into share buybacks yeah which I mean I don't love you know you know my opinion on that and I own CN rail too yeah yeah it's I'm not really sure I mean their leverage ratio is kind of you know it's relatively in line where where it's historically been so maybe they just think that's a comfortable debt level where, you know, they'd be able to continue to buy back shares.

But yeah, I just think at this point in time, this kind of quarter. And it is it's again, it's one quarter. This was the biggest differentiator. I think like this is the widest. These railways typically work kind of, you know, lockstep. They report relatively consistent results. But I think this quarter was uh there's a big differentiator here and whether it continues or not it's tough to tell as I mentioned it's one

quarter but uh CP was the winner for sure I think. Yeah and I'm showing here the full year results for Canadian National Railway and I'll explain it for people so they get a visual so I have the free cash flow that was generated by CNREL for the full year. So the last year, 2024, and then 10 years prior to that, they have the common dividend paid and the repurchase of common stocks, the total amount that's been repurchase in dollar value. And what you've seen essentially since the new CEO came aboard and the whole attempt to buy CP fell through before, not CP, but Kansas City

Southern fell through before CP actually got the offer approved and everything went through regulators in the US. And this is what I don't like to see is that over the last three years CNREL has paid dividends and bought back shares much, much more than its free cash flow. Yeah, that's what I don't like I understand that the leverage ratio may not be that high its historical norms But my issue with it is if something happens a black swan event, they're removing some of their flexibility I just don't understand this idea of buying back shares If you want to keep the dividend, sure go for it

as it is. It's more than covered by free cash flow. The dividend last year, the total amount paid was over 2 billion, slightly over, and the amount of free cash flow was slightly over 3 billion. So, it's probably a payout ratio around 66%, which is completely fine for a staple business. But the idea that you should also be buying back shares, buy back shares to the amount that is covered by your free cash flow that excess, but don't take on debt to buy back share, which is what they are doing.

And something that I do not love as a shareholder, and we've talked about it for quite some time. Like I've been looking at CP, same you potentially selling my share my shares in CNR to or Canadian National Rail to buy CP because I Just don't think this is prudent capital allocation I think it should be better to pay down debt and then you have more flexibility down the line and then if down the line you want to return more capital to shareholders because you've paid down debt and you can afford to then by all means have at it, but I don't think this is a great strategy right now Yeah, I mean they're effectively like ramping up the buybacks in a big way in

2022 and 2023 when the economy is getting weaker. Yeah share buybacks or like I I seem to remember last year I can't remember last year. I can't remember actually what they reported in terms of earnings per share growth, but like when you worked out the numbers, it was, it was effectively all due to those buybacks. Like there was really no growth there from an actual operational standpoint. I mean, you see like, what would that be 4.8 and 4.6. So they're talking what like nine,

almost nine and a half billion dollars in buybacks over the last well like that, but yeah, and it's For 22 and 23 alone and then you add in another close to three billion Last year, I just don't think it's good management here a good capital allocation. I Like I don't understand companies that haven't learned from the last five years. I just don't understand. There's so many examples of companies that did massive buybacks from 2015 to 2020, early 2020 before the pandemic. And then they essentially were hamstrung because they did too many buybacks when they should have been shoring up their balance sheet in case of an adverse event.

They didn't and then they were in a really tough spot. Airlines come to mind when it comes to that. Suncor was like the prime example of that. I mean they were buying back a ton of shares and then I mean that's a little bit different situation because I don't think you'd ever see these rails get hit by an environment like that. Like Suncor is obviously exposed to oil, which is ridiculously volatile and they hit pretty much a global lockdown, but that was a prime case. They were buying back a ton of shares. The pandemic hit and they pretty much had to cut the dividend, which probably would have been sustainable if they hadn't have done that so aggressively, but yeah, I I Don't know. I think I think CN rail is a well operated company, but I've just kind of liked

What I'm seeing out of CP a little bit more over the last while so I've I've ended up kind of I Mold over doing that for this for like a year, and I finally just after this quarter I kind of I kind kinda pulled the trigger. For me the only thing preventing me is the valuation's still pretty steep. And that's where I'm having a bit of an issue because even though there's more growth there, there's also probably some short term uncertainty

with the North American economy. So that's where I was, I think that's the block for me. So if the valuation could come down a little bit, I'd probably pull the trigger. It's not a huge position Canadian National Rail, so we'll have to see. Welcome back into the show. This is the Canadian Investor Podcast, made possible by our friends and show sponsor EQ Bank which helps Canadians make bank with high interest and no fees on everyday banking. We also love their savings and investment products like GICs which offer some of the best rates

on the market. I personally and I know Simone as well is using the GICs on a regular basis to set money aside for personal income taxes in April or every year. Their GICs are perfect because the interest rate is guaranteed and I know I won't be able to touch that money until I need it for tax time. Whether you're looking to set some money aside for a rainy day or a big purchase is coming through the pipeline or simply want to lower the risk of your overall investment portfolio, EQBank GICs are a great option. The best thing about EQBank is that it is so easy to use. You can open an account and buy a GIC online in minutes. Take advantage of some of the best rates on the market today

at EQBank.ca forward slash GIC. Again, EQBank.ca forward slash G I C. As do it yourself investors, we want to keep our fees low. That's why Simone and I have been using Questrade as our online broker for so many years now. Questrade is Canada's number one rated online broker by MoneySense. And with them you can buy all North American ETFs, not just a few

select ones, all commission free, so that you can choose the ETFs that you want. And they charge no annual RSP or TFSA account fees. They have an award-winning customer service team with real people that are ready to help if you have questions along the way. As a customer myself, I've been impressed with Quest Trades customer service. Whenever I call or email, every support rep is very knowledgeable and they get exactly what I need done quickly. Switch for free today and keep more of your money. Visit questrade.com for details. That is questrade.com. Here on the show, we talk about companies with strong two-sided networks make for the best

products. I'm going to spend this coming February and March in an Airbnb in South Florida for a combination of work and vacation and realized, hey, my place could be a great Airbnb while I'm away. I realized, hey, my place could be a great Airbnb while on the way. Since it's just going to be sitting empty, it could make some extra income. But there are still so many people who don't even think about hosting on Airbnb or think it's a lot of work to get started. But now it is easier than ever with Airbnb's new co-host network.

You can hire a local quality co-host to take care of your home and guests. It's a win-win since you make some extra money hosting on Airbnb, but can still focus on enjoying your time away. Find a co-host at airbnb.ca forward slash host. That is airbnb.ca forward slash host. We'll move on because we have quite a few other companies

to talk about. So we'll start off with Big Tech. I meant, let's just start with the Zuckerberg. And yes, I said the Zuck or a Zuckerberg as I call him sometimes because of my French accent and I'm fully embracing it right now. So they released their Q4 and full year earnings. I'll mostly look at their Q4 earnings just because I think

that's the most relevant. You can look year over year. Revenues were up 20, 21% to 48 billion. Advertising is still the bulk of revenues. So for those that are not familiar here with meta, advertising is 97% of their revenues. It's I mean, it's all advertising. I know they have reality labs, but it's not a big portion at all. And I'm showing here, you can tell like the highest bar of the graphic is total revenues. And then next to it is advertising and it's almost at the same same level. So the most last year for example for the full year they had a hundred and sixty one billion in revenue from advertising and their total

revenues was a hundred and sixty four point five. So it gives people an idea that it's very very reliant on advertising. Having said that, within that segment, Zuckerberg said that meta Ray-Ban glasses are a hit. So within the reality lab segment. And have you looked at those glasses? I've never even heard of that before. So I imagine there's some sort of VR or something? Yeah, it's kind of AR like augmented reality.

So it's, you know, they look good. Oh, it's like display stuff on the on the glass I think so. Yeah, I think you have like certain things I think they integrate some AI you can like you see the little holes here on the glasses. You can actually Like record stuff in high definition take pictures like there's different functionalities. I don't think they're as advanced as like an Apple Vision Pro, which I will be talking about when I talk about Apple. Much cheaper. Much cheaper. Not as stupid looking.

Yeah. Is probably the other thing. I mean, they look very close to Ray-Ban like regular glasses and the polarized version is $409 and this is Canadian dollars versus regular Ray-Ban glasses that are probably two to three hundred dollars depending on the model and whether they're polarized or not so the price definitely makes a whole lot of sense so I can see why these are much more attractive because they don't look as stupid as the other AR and VR stuff that's on the market. Yeah they already have you know a lot of data

on your Facebook and now you're gonna slap the glasses on and pretty much give them insights into your whole life. I mean they're the one thing about Meta is they're I mean even as a company we've advertised on multiple platforms and Facebook is the only one that we've ever really generated positive ad spend from. It's crazy how tailored their algorithm is. I believe it's just all the data collection and putting these glasses on is just going to give them more, I would say.

Yeah. No, exactly. I had never looked at them. I knew they had launched them but I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the design and everything and I think if they and again I don't know the full extent of the functionality here but it's definitely something I would potentially consider down the line if I want to get into that but But again, it's, we'll have to see.

I'm just not familiar enough with the product, but apparently they're doing it according to what he said on the call. And what's impressive is their family daily active people. So that's the metric. That's one of their KPIs that they use. So that one is up 5% to 3.35 billion family or FDAP, I guess that they were DAP as they call it. And it's been steadily increasing,

which is impressive for a company that's as mature as a Meta. Yeah, I mean, they already have, I can't even remember how many like active users do they have, it's like. Oh, it's an, I mean, they have half the world. Yeah, half the world, I think. Yeah, it's crazy. More than half if you exclude China,

because I think either they're not available in China or Chinese big tech as most of the market share there. So it's pretty impressive, that's for sure. Ad impressions increased 6%. The average price per ad was up 14%, headcount was up 10% year over year. That is interesting because there was a lot of talk about efficiency in the last couple years with Meta specifically, but he did mention Zuckerberg on the call that most of that account growth is going towards AI

initiatives. CapEx almost doubled in Q4 versus last year. It reached $14.4 billion during the quarter, which is pretty wild. Net income was up 49% to $21 billion. Earnings per share was up 50% to $8.02. I had put a little typo in my notes here. Regarding AI, here's what Zuckerberg said, because that was one of the things I really wanted to know. So he expects that this is a year that a highly intelligent AI agent reaches more than 1 billion people. He expects meta AI to be the leader in this space. He also believes that people will look for AI tools that are customizable to their needs and view of the world. Ethings that open source AI like a llama for example so their their AI model will be the leaders in AI

model over a closed source like a chat gpt. They anticipate bringing on one gigawatt worth of data center capacity this year with another two in the coming years. They continue to develop and increase the use of their own in-house silicon or computer chips but are still using some third-party chips. And why they're using their own in-house is they're making them more efficient for the task they want them to do without going into too much detail for people that are not as familiar with chips So Apple for example those m1 chips that you see in the MacBooks for example They're all designed by Apple and I believe they're all manufactured by Taiwan Semiconductors don't quote me on that, but that's my understanding and the reason why Companies and big tech are doing that is they're really making these chips designing them to really fit the purpose that they want them to have versus back

in the day for example the MacBook Pros you had Intel chips inside of them while they were not as efficient they were more power hungry now I have a MacBook Pro I have the M1 chip I've had it for a couple years I mean it's fantastic never gets hot there is no fan it's always super quick the only times it's slow it's because I haven't rebooted the laptop in like two months so I just have to reboot it and it's fine afterwards but it's very like for any kind of multitasking video audio editing it's it's really fantastic don't try to play games on it because it will suck but aside from that it's really fantastic. Don't try to play games on it, because it will suck. But aside from that, it's really good.

And then finishing on the AI topic, he was asked some questions about DeepSeek. He said that there's a bunch of things that they've learned about DeepSeek since it's been out. So clearly they've been studying it, they've been looking at it, and they will be looking to be implementing some of those learnings.

But they're also saying that there's some stuff that they're still trying to figure out. And he also said that it was too early to say that DeepSeek would impact and the technology or the efficiency that they're bringing would have what kind of impact it would have around AI infrastructure and capital expenditure spending. So that was one of the big fears, right? For Nvidia, is that last thing I'm talking about here is that what DeepSeek came out with would essentially, with Big Tech that's been spending billions and billions of dollars in acquiring these GPUs from Nvidia, it would make them scale back those spending plans.

So according to what he's saying, it's too early to make any conclusion. So it's coming from him. He was asked that question. That's probably the right approach to say, I think I would say he's not mentioning specifically Nvidia. And I think what we talked about last week was very accurate. That the impact could be that the demand stays pretty high for GPUs, but more competition comes in and AMD starts gaining a bit more market share because companies are looking at more affordable option. They could also be scaling back a little bit. This could impact margins from Nvidia. So it doesn't mean that Nvidia will crater, it just means that it may not be growing as quickly as it is. The margins might start contracting a little bit.

All these things, because the valuation was so high, could definitely impact Nvidia in terms of the share price. And that's what we were saying. We don't know where it's going, but there's a lot of potential ripple effect from just that announcement and just the efficiency that was shown by DeepSeek. At least what we've seen so far. Yeah the one thing too about all these comments like if if we think about it we're only what like one week into it being released? Not even. So I mean obviously obviously- More than that, I think it was on the 20th.

So it's 10 days into the release. We're 10 days in. I mean, they're really not gonna have a lot of answers just because it's so early. I mean, I imagine the one thing I would say that they know is that, you know, a lot of the, just judging by the comments from Meta and Microsoft is it kinda is the real deal. Like there was a lot of stuff that maybe, you know, a lot of the just judging by the comments from Meta and Microsoft is it kind

of is the real deal. Like there was a lot of a lot of stuff that maybe, you know, initially we thought, you know, could be fabricated or anything. I don't think that's the case anymore. But it's, I think where there's still some uncertainty is the cost it took him to develop. But again, I think like you said, efficiency achieved I think it's been validated for now that yes, it's for real Yeah, so yes, there might be some other things that are up for debate and it's hard to trust because it's a Chinese company but again, I think it's safe to say that some of it can be Validated with a lot of certainty so far at least what we've seen said by Meta, by Zuckerbird, by Satyan with Microsoft. So it'll be interesting. I mean, I think we'll keep learning about this

probably like every week, every month we'll learn some new stuff and some new developments regarding this. Yeah, and as you mentioned, it's interesting on the Nvidia front because I mean if it is cheaper, if you can do it cheaper, I mean that brings way more competition into the space because you know you don't have to have the top end chips in order to you know your capital expenditures on very expensive GPUs can go down. I mean, I really don't know this industry very well. So I mean, but I mean, for right now, I mean, it's just so uncertain. Like even I don't think they're gonna scale back

spending plans at all. I mean, I know at least I'll go over Microsoft. They pretty much said they're not gonna scale back plans at all either. So I mean, it's too early. Well, tell us what they said. Yeah. Yeah. All right, let us what they send. Yeah.

All right, let's dig into Microsoft. So, Microsoft reported revenue, $69.6 billion in earnings per share, $3.23. They both came in ahead estimates, but the stock, it took a pretty big hit. What did it fall? It fell like almost 7% after it reported. And I think one of the main contributors to the dip

would have been its cloud revenue. So reported revenue was 40 billion, but street estimates had it around 41.2. So this was one of the slower cloud growth rates. The company has posted it in the last few years. So back in 2023, it reported year over year growth of around 20.7. I believe this quarter was 20.8, but outside of that, it's typically grown at a, you know, a 22, 23% year over year pace. So I mean, maybe that's kind of what caused it to dip, but I mean, overall their business seems to be growing at a pretty reasonable pace.

You know, not including valuations. I mean, I've always thought for Microsoft to be very expensive, which is one of the reasons I've never really owned it, but their 365 commercial products grew at 15% year over year. Consumer products, 365 consumer grew at 8% year over year. And it's a cloud platform Azure grew by 21%. I'm not even sure if I'm saying that, right? I've never known if I've been saying Azure, Azure.

Yeah, I think it's Azure. Yeah, so to the main points on the quarter and probably what, again, most everybody is interested in right now is the developments in AI. So the company still does spend, still does plan to spend over $80 billion next year. They mentioned a few things that we mentioned last week

on the podcast. They stated that DeepSeek is definitely innovative, but they kind of counteracted this with the point that as the tech gets cheaper, more people can consume it, more businesses will use it. And as a result, more applications will be created, more demand will be, overall demand will be increased. And on that front, they said that their data centers are fungible. They're very flexible. And what I think they probably mean by this is they're easily adaptable to a wide variety of situations, maybe downplaying the fact that they spent an enormous amount of money developing them

and will continue to spend an enormous amount of money on AI Capex. Yeah, it's an interesting point when you think about it because I don't disagree, but it still doesn't mean that the investment was a good investment, right? I think that's where it is. We'll have to see, and I don't disagree that more businesses would be probably interested if the technology becomes better and cheaper.

And I think you can easily compare that to the internet. I know you were probably too young at the time but I grew up, we had the internet pretty early in my household, I think I was like nine or ten years old in the mid 1990s. Yeah. And I can't remember what the cost was but it was dial-up and it was super slow and I remember when cable and DSL started happening, it was, I'd have to ask my parents, but I think it was still like 50, 60 bucks a month back then, which, you know, as much more would probably be. Yeah, exactly. It'd probably be 150 today. But, and you also had a maximum amount of data that you could use in a given month for your home internet. And for younger listeners,

they may be surprised, but it was, yes yes you didn't have at the beginning you did not have unlimited plan even with broadband so cable or DSL. And then obviously back then a lot less people had internet and over time as it became cheaper and cheaper you can get some pretty affordable internet deals even it might might not be the fastest, but it'll be decent. It'll be decently fast. You'll be able to do most things, probably video calls will be unlimited as well. More and more people started adopting the technology.

So I think that's what he's saying a little bit. And you can see it with just general population internet adoption. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember it, it I was I had to be probably six six seven years old. I think our first internet speed I mean I'm pretty sure was like 16 kilobytes a second which I mean in today's like you're talking I don't know I think we have a hundred or 200 megabytes internet now so you're talking talking like. Yeah, if you have to buy fiber,

yeah, you're probably in that, right? Yeah. Monumentally slower than it is today, which I mean, again, like we're still in the infancy of, you know, this whole AI development. So things are going to change. I mean, this isn't the first shake up in the industry. I would almost guarantee.

I mean, the other thing they mention is they're still limited in terms of being able to satisfy the demand for services because of capacity constraints. So they're going to continue spending a ton of money to build out the infrastructure. And they said they should be able to meet demand by the end of 2025. So I looked at the conference call transcript and there actually wasn't as much questions asked, I guess, on DeepSeek as I expected. But the gist I got from the conference call is that, as I mentioned, that DeepSeek in terms of power capability is as good as it is rumored to be. And they've kind of said they'll need to adapt. The one interesting thing that I found, and it was actually Brayden that quote tweeted this.

So yesterday, Microsoft, like OpenAI, was like investigating DeepSeek to see if they stole their data. And then this morning, like Microsoft announced that DeepSeek is available on their platform. So I mean, I don't know what changed in the 24 hour period, but that's a pretty big accusation. And then, you know, within 24 hours, you got the, it available.

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I think OpenAI, who cares at this point, right? Like you have, they have closed, it's not an open source, it's closed source. But at the end of the day, I mean, this stuff is easily, I mean, I'm not an expert in the field, but from what I've read day I mean this stuff is easily I mean I'm not an expert in the field but from what I've read like it can be copied quite easily

and when you're looking at companies outside the US I mean at the end of the day like you have no control over that so you have to like expect that it's gonna be plagiarized I mean the internet is has a history of you know copy and plagiarism you know it goes back ever since the internet started so for them to be saying that it's like okay like what are you going to do about it like they probably did so what like it is if you didn't think this was going to be a commodity you're probably realizing it now i think that's just what I get from it. Well and it's kind of funny too because as you know a writer I mean a lot of these open AIs have taken you know stuff from writers to train the model too. I mean I've done plenty

of stuff on on GPT where it actually like sites my website for the results. So are you getting money for that or what? No, definitely not. So I mean, I don't feel bad for them. I mean, it's kind of, yeah, even if you go on Google, you know, they have those little AI overviews and they'll pretty much take what you've written, plaster it on the front page of Google. And then, you know, you don't get any sort of click-throughs or any sort of, I mean, they cite you at the bottom

if you click read more and scroll halfway down the page. But yeah, I mean, I'm really not surprised. site you at the bottom if you click read more and scroll halfway down the page. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's I'm really not surprised. I'm kind of surprised by the accusation and then, you know, the next day there. Yeah. But yeah, it's but it was like Microsoft has struggled quite a bit over the last while. I mean, if you if you look at it over the last year, they're only up like two or three percent.

They. It's been mostly sideways. Yeah. If you look at it over the last year, they're only up like two or 3%. They- Yeah, it's been mostly sideways. Yeah, I looked at it recently and I have here, like because you were talking earlier about slowing cloud, I mean, it's still growing quickly. It's just a deceleration in the growth. And it's been like quite the performer since 2019. I mean, it's almost triple in terms of the revenue

it's generates, but you're not wrong. I was looking at, and I'll, it's almost triple in terms of the revenue it generates, but you're not wrong. I was looking at, and I'll show it here for the last year or so, even if you factor in total returns, I mean, you're not looking at a great outcome. Exactly. 6.1% if you include dividends. I hate to break it to people, but that is well below the S&P 500. At the peak, I mean, they were doing quite well. When you look at the peak of July, things were going well.

But ever since it's been, let's just say sideways, but yeah, looking back a year, you're completely right. I was, I looked at it too and I was surprised when I saw that. Yeah. And it's not really a company that I follow all that much. Like I said, I've never really wanted to own it just because of how expensive it is. I've always kind of bought Alphabet just because it's so much cheaper. But I don't know what happened, what's happened over the last year or so, but it hasn't really had a good run. I mean, its results were all right. But I mean, for a company that was

trading at like 50 times free cashflow, I would kind of expect more. But again, like I mean, for a company that was trading at 50 times free cashflow, I would kind of expect more. But again, like I said, I don't follow the company all that much. I think it's a good reminder. We saw it with Nvidia and it's probably the same thing with Microsoft when you have stocks trading at very high multiples for valuation. I don't care how good the company is. If the stock is trading at very high valuation and they don't meet expectation or blow past expectation, they might still have a very good quarter.

You'll likely see a decline in the share price because the market was expecting more. And I think that's where people, a lot of people with Nvidia were missing the point who said it was overblown. Nvidia might be fine long term, but this changes things at least in terms of projection of what people will be doing for Nvidia going forward. And this could be changing things for Microsoft too. So I think it's just important that to remember that yes, these companies are still very good companies. Microsoft still a fantastic company, but the reality is it was trading at a high multiple, it still is, and expectations are sky high for Microsoft. It doesn't take much for the stock to take a hit if they don't meet those lofty expectations. Yeah, I mean you got to think about it. If you, if, I mean most of the articles I read

said that it took a dip because of the the cloud. And if you think about it, they miss cloud revenue. That's what I read too. Yeah, they miss cloud revenue by two and a half percent. And the stock took a 7% dive on that. So yeah, there's, they have to, you know, when companies get this expensive, they gotta do pretty much everything right. They gotta do over and above most of the time.

Yeah, unless you're called Apple, then you don't need to grow revenue. Yeah, for some reason, yeah. And the stock'll still be up So that's my transition into Apple Q1 2025 so this one I was really excited to see and they reported late yesterday in the evening so I was really excited to see because You must remember that then just this fall when they came out with Apple intelligence or you know, AI, Apple

intelligence, that little play on words. It was you had analysts left, right and center saying this would spur the man for new iPhones. People would upgrade sooner because they need a 15 Pro or an iPhone 16 to be able to use Apple intelligence and it would spur sales. And we started hearing reports that that may not have been the case in the fall and it definitely was not the case now that you're starting to see results because keep in mind this quarter ended I think it was December 28. It was smack into the holiday period. One of the strongest period in terms of iPhone sales typically.

And sales overall, so including all the other segments, they were up 4% to 124 billion, which is good, but iPhone sales were down 1% to 69 billion. And that's where I think the issue is with Apple is because iPhone sales, people may say may say oh 4% sales overall is pretty good I mean, yes, it's pretty good for mature business like Apple, but when you look at their iPhone sales I mean It's still more than 50% of all their sales and for joint TCI viewers here You can see on the graphic the big blue line Which was in the last year in terms of iPhone sale that was 200 billion.

If you're looking the closest one compared to that is services and it's half of the sales of iPhones and then you have iPad revenue, Mac revenue and wearables that also make the rest. They've all they've all did quite well with the exception of wearables. They all did quite well but the reality is when the behemoth of iPhones sales is not doing well, it's going to Put some pressure on the business. Yeah, I mean people I think People just don't have the money to be buying new phones like they used to anymore I mean if you look at like a 16 Pro max I look up the price. It's

$1,800 so So it'll cost you $75 a month for 24 months. Like I don't even, I don't even... Maybe Go Easy can give you some financing for that. Oh yeah. Or you can buy it with buy now pay later, you know. Oh I'm sure. Hopefully you can pay later. You probably could, yeah. I mean, it's just like, I don't know. I think like, if you have, I think like maybe pre-pandemic or even during the pandemic, I mean, if somebody had an iPhone 15, they might, you know, once their deal runs out, come and grab a new phone.

But I think like people just aren't doing that anymore. And like the phone costs you 75 bucks a month. Like I don't even think my phone bill in its entirety is is $75 a month. No. So I have a yeah I'm like that too so I when I I got like a plan where they basically they finance it over two years and then once that finished I renegotiated my plan to, I dropped it by from $65 to 50, increased the amount of data I had because now they no longer had me locked in. Yeah.

And I could leave wherever I wanted to go. So my plan cost me 50 bucks a month. And I think I have like a hundred gigabytes in data because I said, if you guys don't give it to me, I'll switch to another carrier. Yeah. And I think more and more people are finding that out and they're finding the technology just isn't really... I mean, if you spent, let's say you have an iPhone 15 and you spent $1,200 on that, are you really going to spend $1,700 to get a model newer? And maybe when rates weren't as high,

there was a little more consumer spending. People might've done it, but I just, I don't think that's happening anymore. And, you know, coming out with a new phone every six months, I don't know if they still do every six months. I think- No, it's a once a year pretty much now. Yeah, but I mean, I've seen Apple Intelligence in action with a friend of mine, and it's not great. It's really not good.

Like, I don't know if they improved it since, it's been a few months since he had showed it to me, but he sent me one was hilarious. He sent me a screenshot after I got the shot for my back for my disc. I texted my buddy cause we mountain bike quite a bit and I said, oh, like, you know, with this, like give me a few months, I'll have the back of a teenager.

And then he showed me what it summarized. And it was something that I could go to jail for. Oh my god. So, I'll let people, yeah, yeah. So, that's kind of the stuff it, so how the hell it actually summarized when I was just like saying like, oh yeah, like my bag's gonna be as good as a, you know, as a teenager. It just, I was like, okay Well, they need now really don't refinement. Yeah. Yeah, I mean exactly

It was funny on like the day when like Nvidia and all the all the chip companies were falling and they said that Apple's AI Was so bad. They were unfazed. I think they ended up green on the day didn't they or something like that? It was yeah And it was funny and not to go too much on a tangent here, but I was reading just for fun. Sometimes I'll go on CBC, the business, just to see what they say, because usually, sometimes it's good, but most of the time, I find they don't do proper research. And they were talking about DeepSeq and how now it was creating uncertainty with big tech because they're spending so much on AI infrastructure

and they cited Meta and Apple. I'm like, what? Why are you putting Apple there? Yeah, like what site Meta and like Microsoft if you're Google and Microsoft. So that, you know, take that with a grain of salt. I don't mean to dunk on CBC, but I've noticed that a lot of their business article that I've seen over the last few years

I think there's just a lack of research understanding by some of the reportants. Honestly, it's pretty disappointing But that's just a little bit of a rant here now the wearable segment to get back at the good stuff for Apple Actually, the wearable was not good. So that was down 2% at 11.7 billion. But again, it's a small segment They talked about Apple Vision Pro being available in new markets on the call and they're excited about that But the problem is that they don't provide sales numbers specifically with the Apple Vision Pro and I've seen countless articles of reports that sales are falling countless articles of reports that sales are falling very short of what expectations were. It's very expensive. I'm not surprised it looks ridiculous.

I'm not surprised either. That's my opinion. Some other people might not think it's ridiculous, but I think it looks pretty stupid, but that's just me. Yeah, and it's just bulky. So it'll be interesting whether they come out with a cheaper version that would be more interested to more people or they go the kind of meta way where they team up with a company that has like a more of a luxury brand reputation, which I think Ray-Ban would have been the

perfect brand to team up for an Apple, but I guess that's no longer on the table. Now if you go to Mac revenues so now the good stuff Mac revenues were up 16% to 9 billion. iPad revenues were up 15% to 8 billion. Services revenue that is probably the shining star of the result. It was up 14% to 26 billion but like I said earlier it is starting to be a much bigger portion of their business. So that is the one that is, I think, saving them a little bit because it's about half of the revenues that are generated by the iPhone.

So it's making up a little bit for that slowdown in iPhone sales. The other things that were interesting is that if you start looking at the different regions they all increased in sell except for China which saw a decline of 11% to 18.5 billion. Now on the call they said it was because they didn't have like proper inventory in China. I have my doubts about that we'll have to see whether that's actually true or as we've seen, I've seen a lot of reports saying that Chinese consumers are switching more and more to local options. So there's a lot of smartphones like Huawei would be one of them that are available in

China. So we'll have to see if that's right. If the China kind of picks back up in the next couple of years, but it was a decline of 11% and it's their third largest region in terms of sales behind the Americas at 53% at 53 billion and Europe at 34 billion. So it's not a small market for them. They also repurchased 24 billion worth of shares during the quarter and they generated 27 billion worth of free cash flow.

However, that was down from 37 billion last year. So for a company that's trading as expensive as it is, it's very meh in terms of results. If you ask me, I think it's okay. It's fine. But you're paying a premium. Yes, it's very profitable. It generates a whole lot of free cash flow. But again, the same question is there for Apple.

Where does the growth come from? Services, sure. Mac, iPad, all that stuff, sure. But there's such small portion of the business that unless you see services really keep going strong and iPhone sales stabilizing or slightly increasing, I think they're in a tough spot of you know Increasing revenues over the long term they have to come out with a new product and there hasn't been much ever since Steve jobs Passed away and left Apple Yeah, there's been like I mean the vision Pro was supposed to be a big thing, but I mean Yeah, I mean I guess you could say like they kind of hit

But I mean yeah, I mean I guess you could say like they kind of hit They kind of hit like a bad time. I guess I mean, yeah, what do they cost? They cost like five thousand bucks Don't take or something crazy. Oh, yeah, something like that crazy. Yeah, yeah, like people I can't even imagine the Disposable cash I would need to have to spend five thousand dollars on a on a vision Pro I mean it just I I mean we've seen over the last while here, I mean, Buffett kind of dumped out of his position in Apple. I mean, it's still a pretty big position, but he's definitely cashed out a bit on that front. I mean, the one thing is,

is the company kind of reports kind of meh earnings all the time, but it's share prices. It's just relatively stable. Like I think if you had a company like Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon report quarters like this, I think it would just be, I think it would sell off massively, but for some reason, Apple just never does. So they, yeah, so they start at,

for the 250 gig version. It's five grand half a terabyte. It's 5300 and then a terabyte is 5600 yeah, it's kind of pale because you have to like log in and stuff. But yeah, it's not cheap I'd rather get a top of the line macbook pro for less than that than buying that. That's for sure Yeah, I think it's just kind of a huge it's a huge miss and I just yeah I don't know if it'll ever ever sell well. You don't like paying five grand for ski goggles? Yeah it's uh mind boggling I mean Apple's always sold expensive products like they're everything's more expensive I mean their laptops are more I mean they're much higher quality, I will say, like their tablets, their laptops.

For the most part, the iPhone's higher quality, but yeah, I don't know. I just don't see how they're gonna be able to grow. I mean, I own Berkshire, so I do own like a lot of exposure to Apple in a roundabout way, and I really, I don't know. They just seem so average, I guess I would call it. Yeah, no, I agree.

I mean, they still have super strong brand power and I use Apple products, so I love their products. I'm not saying that, it's just, there's been a lack of innovation. They've made their products better, yes, but they haven't come out with a new iPhone type of deal, like a brand new concept, right? They haven't come out with that.

The Apple Vision Pro was kind of just trying to get in that AR augmented reality, virtual reality space. So it was not necessarily a new concept either. It was just trying to make it the Apple way. We'll have to see. I mean, it's still a great business, but again, for the valuation, it's trading. I'm just happy to look on the sidelines and not owning it anything else We wanted to talk about I know you had made some notes for Starbucks, but we're already over an hour

So I think go over I think we'll call it an episode. Yeah. Yeah, exactly so when you're back from that that golf tournament that The wasted open is that what you believe it's a waste management open, but they call it the it the wasted management open but yeah it's it's fun it's a lot of fun. So trying to you know just you're in your 30s Dan so you have to hydrate electrolytes that's the key if you don't want to feel like you're dying the next day. Well I'm not gonna be drinking too much there because it it's 17 US dollars for a beer. Oh, okay, so it'll pre-drink. Yeah. That's okay.

I like that too. Hey, I used to do that back in the day. Okay, well, it was, I think, a fun episode. I hope everyone enjoyed it and we do appreciate all the support we get. If you haven't had the chance, leave us a review on whichever platform that you listen to. It helps people find us. We were pretty present both Dan and I on Twitter even though I haven't been posting as much just with the move in everything but I do try to respond when people kind of tag me

in a reply but I'll probably be a bit more active as I have more time so I'm at fiat underscore iceberg, Dan, you're at stocktrades underscore CA. That's right. Yes, I got it, perfect. Well, thanks everyone for listening. We'll see you next week. The Canadian Investor podcast should not be construed as investment or financial advice. The host and guest featured may own securities

or assets discussed on this podcast. Always do your own due diligence or consult with a financial professional before making any financial or investment decisions.