The Canadian Investor - Tencent and should you own or rent your home?

Episode Date: November 5, 2020

We are back with another episode of the Canadian Investor. This week, we dive into the Chinese behemoth that is Tencent Holdings. And then, should you own or rent a home? We breakdown what you should be looking at to know if owning or renting makes the most sense from a financial perspective. Tickers of stocks discussed TCEHY Twitter: @cdn_investing Getstockmarket.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/the-canadian-investor/messageSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back into the show. This is the Canadian Investor Podcast, made possible by our friends and show sponsor, EQ Bank, which helps Canadians make bank with high interest and no fees on everyday banking. We also love their savings and investment products like GICs, which offer some of the best rates on the market. I personally, and I know Simone as well, is using the GICs, which offer some of the best rates on the market. I personally, and I know Simone as well, is using the GICs on a regular basis to set money aside for personal income taxes in April of every year. Their GICs are perfect because the interest rate is guaranteed, and I know I won't be able to touch that money until I need it for tax time. Whether you're looking to set some money aside for a rainy day or a big purchase is

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I'm here with Simon. Simon, how late did you stay up last night watching the U.S. election results? I mean, on regular year, I probably would have stayed up until like midnight, 1 a.m. But around 11, I think I was just like, screw this. We're probably not going to get the results, the final results. Probably not for like two, three weeks, if you think about it, because of certain states, the way they count the votes. But no, I did not stay up that late in the end. So, yeah, it was interesting, though.

How about you? that late in the end so uh yeah it was interesting though how about you yeah i think it was like midnight and then i guess just like the rest of us we realized that there was going to be no real conclusion and there still isn't however uh it is very probable that Biden wins the election. Today's stocks are up. S&P closed today at around up 2.2%. But that's not reflective of my portfolio. Holy smokes, everything is really, really green. So I just want to make a quick point here.

really, really green. So I just want to make a quick point here. I'm looking at my stocks today and many of them are, most of them are up over 8% today, which is insane for one day shift, right? This is why you stay invested. This is why you do not shy away of certain events or air quotes right now, wait on the sidelines because you miss out on days like this where positions make huge gains and you could actually miss out on gains for the whole year by missing one trading day. And there are so many empirical studies that'll show this. From 1999 to 2018, if you missed the 10 best days in the stock market, the 10 highest rises of the S&P 500, your total annualized return was only 2%. So you may as well have been in bonds or probably even worse than that just because you missed the top 10 days. So what is the learning lesson from days like

today? There's so much uncertainty and it still is best to be invested. So is this is key right stay invested if you miss out on the best days you can erase your entire returns that you would have got that year and no one wants to see that so simon this is why we stay invested uh yeah i mean it's so hard to predict and i mean just i listened to a little bit of cnbc radio as was working, just curious what they they were talking about. I always kind of get all their analysts, they couldn't really say why the market was up. A lot of them were probably thinking, especially because the NASDAQ is really up, so a big part of it obviously is tech. And some of them were just saying that the fact that the market now is pricing in more. A Biden presidency with a Republican Senate means that Democrats wouldn't control the whole U.S. government,

which means that it would probably be more difficult for them to break up the big tech companies. But again, that's just speculation. Who knows if that's the real reason why the Nasdaq is up so big today. But like Braden said, it's really hard to pinpoint what's going to happen. So you're better off staying invested. I personally always keep a small percentage in cash so I can pull the trigger and buy companies that, you know, in the short term have a bit of a dip that I really like, but I wouldn't sell just because I'm afraid of what would be happening at the US election.

Yes, sir. So that's the key, right? Is stay invested, short term. No one knows what's going to happen. But at the end of the day, results came in and the market thinks that no matter who won or lost the election, that FAANG stocks won the election and that tech stocks and the NASDAQ 100 won the election because investors in tech today are feeling pretty good. Today, we're going to talk about a company called Tencent. And then after that, Simon's going to do a little, should you buy or rent your home? And it's not a straightforward answer.

It never is. But we're going to break down some of the math that you can actually think about when making that decision, because sometimes one may make a lot more sense financially um okay so 10 cent this is this is an announcement that i finally bought the stock after hinting at it so long uh simo you've been in a shareholder for quite some time now, correct? Yeah, I've had it I think two, three years if I remember correctly. Yeah, okay. So I've been basically talking

it up for years and done nothing. So I finally own the stock. Feels good. It's up 5% and I bought it yesterday. So I'm basically a genius and investing is easy, right? All jokes aside, this company is massive. So it's very, not very well understood, but is China's most

important internet business. They're around 760 billion in market cap, which is very similar to the market capitalization of Alibaba. So those are the two big, massive giants when it comes to internet businesses. But Tencent is so instrumental in China, and I'm going to go into those reasons why. So many people don't know how big WeChat is in China. It's quite incredible. So if you don't know what WeChat is, it's basically a lot of the social media apps you use and know rolled into one and with a messaging platform similar to a comparable of say WhatsApp. So it's super sticky, everyone uses it network effects through the roof, 1.2 billion users and climbing. And there are so many functionalities inside of WeChatChat that it is core to a Chinese smartphone.

The concept of if Apple didn't allow Tencent to be on the phones, they just wouldn't sell any iPhones in China. That's how sticky it is. That's how powerful the network effects are. So that's really key to clear up. The stock IPO'd in 2004 at a valuation of around 790 million USD when it made its debut in what is Hong Kong dollars. It's now a thousand bagger later at 760 billion in market cap, which is absolutely nuts. Okay, so this is the core business. Social networks, which is quite big.

$114 million paid video subscriptions as well. And $47 million paid music subscriptions. I just want to give a shout out to a lot of these stats I'm reading out is from a guy named Paki McCormick he has an awesome sub stack called not boring and he did this breakdown on Tencent and I want to give him full credit because he did a really deep dive into their investment portfolio that I'm going to get into and I hadn't seen any of this data anywhere. It didn't exist, so he made it. And so I appreciate him for doing that. So big shout out.

Online games is huge. They own 100% of Riot Games, which owns League of Legends. They own 40% of Epic Games, which has Fortnite. They have 10 million daily active users, 17 separate franchises. million daily active users 17 separate franchises um but when you roll up epic games and and and uh riot games the user base is in the hundreds of millions not 10 million online advertising so they have a media business they have a social ads business as well a lot of this is rolled in through what's called qQ and WeChat through their products. And then they have FinTech business services. So WeChat pay, QQ pay.

They have a wealth management business. It's a very, very complex structure of many different businesses rolled up into what is Tencent. So how can we normalize this? Because you're hearing this on the podcast and you're like, okay, well, what's a comparable? All right. So based on Q2 revenue, this is what you're looking at and how their business lines stack up to competitors. Again, Paki McCormick, thank you for making this graphic. It's incredible. So this is Q2 of 2019. So their payments business is around 60% of the revenue of PayPal. Their subscriptions, which is video streaming

and music streaming is over half the revenue of Netflix. So just a little over half of Netflix. Their social ads is about 10% of Facebook. Media ads is bigger than the New York Times. Their gaming business is almost double the size of Nintendo. And their cloud business is a small sliver of what AWS is, but growing. So their core revenue business, their core business compares on the scale to some of the biggest tech names you know that are listed on North American stock exchanges. So that's key. In China, their games platform

is the number one app for gaming. WeChat is the number one smartphone app in monthly active users. Mobile payment is the highest by monthly active users. Video is number one. News is number one. Music is number one. Literature is number one. Cloud is number two. Number one in the app store in terms of utilities and the number one browser by monthly active users. So essentially, they dominate the internet in China. And it's pretty mind boggling to hear some of that. So the very misunderstood part of the business is their investment wing, the holding co. It's pretty incredible what they own. So I did a breakdown for that. Today came out a new stratosphere newsletter for premium subscribers,

you can go on getstockmarket.com and see it completely free is I did a breakdown of some of the companies in the holding portfolio as well. So they own over 700 companies, which is absolutely insane. And so here's some of the stakes that you'll be surprised about. If you know C Limited, which is Southeast Asia's fastest growing technology company,

they own 25.6% of it. They own 100% of Riot Games, 18% of JD.com, which is a massive e-commerce business in china they own 40 of epic games the creator of fortnite they own five percent of tesla 6.8 of spotify and five percent of activision blizzard and this list goes on and on 700 different companies and they're holding companies in their holding co. And it's absolutely nuts what this business owns. I was going to say, so the Spotify portion that you just mentioned, that was an agreement with Spotify as well.

Also, Spotify and Exchange owns a percentage of Tencent Music. So it's an agreement. I think they use some of Spotify's technology in China and Spotify realized that it was going to be too difficult for them to try and enter the Chinese market. So they went with that approach. As do-it-yourself investors, we want to keep our fees low. That's why Simone and I have been using Questrade as our online broker for so many years now. Questrade is Canada's number one rated online broker by MoneySense. And with them, you can buy all North American ETFs, not just a few select ones, all commission free so that you

can choose the ETFs that you want. And they charge no annual RRSP or TFSA account fees. They have an award-winning customer service team with real people that are ready to help if you have questions along the way. As a customer myself, I've been impressed with Questrade's customer service. Whenever I call or email, every support rep is very knowledgeable

and they get exactly what I need done quickly. Switch for free today and keep more of your money. Visit questrade.com for details. That is questrade.com. So not so long ago, self-directed investors caught wind of the power of low-cost index investing. Once just a secret for the personal finance gurus is now common knowledge for Canadians, and we are better for it. When BMO ETFs reached out to work with the podcast, I honestly was not prepared for what I was about to see because the lineup of ETFs has everything I was looking for. Low fees, an incredibly robust

suite, and truly something for every investor. And here we are with this iconic Canadian brand in the asset management world, while folks online are regularly discussing and buying ETF tickers from asset managers in the US. Let's just look at ZEQT, for example, the BMO All Equity ETF. One single ETF, you get globally diversified equities. So easy way for Canadians to get global stock exposure with one ticker. Keeps it simple yet incredibly low cost and effective. Very impressed with what BMO has built in their ETF business. And if you are an index investor and haven't checked out their listings, I highly recommend it. I bet you'll be as pleasantly surprised as I was that BMO, the Canadian bank,

is delivering these amazing ETF products. Please check out the link in the description of today's episode for full disclaimers and more information. Wow. Yeah, that's good to know because that speaks to being the gatekeeper of business in China. It's absolutely nuts. 12.1% of Snapchat as well. It's mind-blowing to hear these numbers. And you think at $760 billion, there's so much underped uh stake in some of these big other publicly traded companies and when you compare the revenue streams to some of these other big giants in north america

it's this big black box that's so complicated um and you're probably going to get some price arbitrage built into that um and and that's why I think it's such an incredible investment long term. Is it a Chinese co? Yes. Do you do? Do I love that? No. But if you look into the deep story of Tencent, it is a true entrepreneurial story and it's going to be a massive business in the future. So I think we've come to the same conclusion on this one, Simon, and it's going to be a compounder for a long time. Oh, yeah. And the fact that they're a Chinese company, too, like obviously there's added risk and the transparency might not always be as good. Tencent is, it is a big company. So I, I mean, my personal belief is that the transparency is a bit better than some other Chinese company. But one of the big advantages of being a big media company or internet company, whatever you

want to call it, what Tencent is, the big advantage with them being in China is the barrier to entry. So the Chinese government, it's no secret to anyone in terms of letting businesses enter their market. There's usually a lot of, you know, regulations that they have to follow a lot more than they would have in the US, Canada and Europe, for example. And that can be a big barrier to entry. And obviously, you can get into the free speech and all that. And I'm not trying to go in there. But it's one of the reasons why Google is not very present in China. It's probably one of the reasons why Spotify decided to partner up with Tencent

over actually trying to get into that market. And I know Netflix has some partnerships as well over there. So it is a competitive advantage to some extent when you think about it that a similar business in North America wouldn't have. Yeah, it's important to recognize some of those things. And it's not that I'm not thrilled that it's a Chinese company. I don't mean to say it like that. I think there's lots of great companies in China and

China's a great country in many aspects. It's the governance that we've seen from some companies, some bad apples that give you caution. I mean, when you're investing your own money, you have to think about all the risks that exist. And we've seen some unfortunate, let's just say dishonesty with US listed companies that are Chinese businesses.

We have seen that to be sometimes unfortunately problematic, but don't get me wrong. There are some amazing businesses. This is a great story, true entrepreneurial story. It's not like it's gatekeeped by the Chinese states. That's not how this business operates. But you got to think about that. And I think what you're saying, Simon,

is really some of its moat if you want to do business in China. Yeah, yeah, it's a way to see it. And I mean, there's pros and cons as long as people are aware of it. In terms of risk, I think, you know, you'd be a fool to think

that the risk of fraud is not higher in China versus North America, for example, but there is still a risk of fraud for Canadian US listed companies as well. So it's just putting things in perspective, as long as you understand the risk. I think, I mean, I do, I think you do, Braden. That's why we are invested in that company. I just want to make people aware that, you know, it is always a risk that's there as well. 100%. And because of that, I think that's why the stock trades at reasonable multiples, given its explosive growth and insane network effects that is kind of baked into the price.

And if you're okay with that and can handle that and willing to take that on, you could probably buy this business for a decent price, even at $760 billion in market cap. This thing's an absolute behemoth. All right, moving on. Simon, you're going to give us a little bit of math on buying, renting, the age-old debate that I don't know if we've ever even really talked about on this podcast. No, I don't think we have. And I've gone through this myself earlier this year. So we just bought a new home in Ottawa in early.

We bought it late last year, but the closing date was in January and I had some intense discussions with family members and real estate agents and what I've noticed that happens a lot of people are ingrained have that ingrained in themselves to think that it's always a better financial decision to owning a home versus renting a home. And the typical argument, and I'm sure Brayden, you've heard this before is, well, you know, when you're renting, you're paying that to a landlord. If you own your home, you're paying off your mortgage. So it's obviously better to own your home. Have you ever heard that? Of course. Yeah. I mean, the old, you're wasting money on rent. Exactly. And it's rent. Exactly. And you guys will see the way I'll break it down.

One can be better than the other. There are definitely advantages of owning and advantages to renting that are also not monetary. So let's keep that in mind. But at the end, I'll kind of break down the financial aspect of it. So some of the advantages of owning. So you can modify the property as you see fit. Obviously, it may require some permits for some big renovations and things like that. There's no risks of being kicked out by the landlord.

There's definitely more certainty, especially if you have family and kids and you don't want to be moving for schools. Your payments go towards your home and not towards a landlord, just what I mentioned. And again, you don't have to deal with a landlord, which may be a good or bad thing, depending on who your landlord is. There might be some other advantages that I didn't put, but those are some of the ones that come to mind. The advantages of renting, there's definitely some cost certainty. Obviously, they can increase your rent, but usually there's a limit to what they can increase it with. In terms of there's also no unexpected repairs, which will typically be covered by the landlord.

It's more flexible if you want to move. It's obviously easier to break a lease than in a lot of markets than to sell a home. There's no property taxes and your utility costs will be lower, most likely, depending on what's included or not in your rent. So from a financial perspective, so should you own a rent? So like I said, anyone who tells you if you should own a rent without providing a good explanation, they've clearly not done their homework. And you know, I'm not afraid to push back. I've pushed back on realtors.

I think a lot of realtors are way too exposed to the housing market. They get their income from that and they'll buy properties and everything is related to that. So try to be careful with what realtors say from time to time. I'm not saying they're all bad, but some of them, they definitely drink the Kool-Aid. Owning might be better in some cases, and renting might be better in other cases, like I mentioned. So what should you look at if you're looking to buy to see if it makes sense from a financial perspective? to see if it makes sense from a financial perspective. So first thing you need to do is what's your down payment with closing costs and what returns would you get if you did not use that money for a down payment. A lot of people tend to forget that because they just see you know oh I'm

owning a home. Well if you're putting $50,000 or $100,000 as a down payment with your closing costs, well, what would be the returns for the duration of the mortgage if you actually put that money in the markets and let it grow? Second thing you'll have to ask yourself is what is the total cost of owning versus renting in a year? And a lot of people make that mistake. They just think it's their mortgage payment and they can afford that, but they forget about property taxes, home insurance versus renter insurance. Home insurance will typically be higher. The maintenance, you'll want to usually allocate about one to 2% of the value of the property each year for maintenance. That would be the average cost. Of course, some years it may be higher,

some years it may be lower. Utility costs will probably be higher as well if you're owning a home. So you want the total cost that it will give you every year, well, it'll cost you every year, owning versus renting. Third thing, calculate what your total savings are when you are renting over the period of the mortgage. So your total savings every year. And then you basically add up your

down payments plus closing costs and then the extra savings that you have every year that you're saving because you're renting. And then once you have that, you can easily calculate the value of your down payment and how it will grow and the additional money that you'll be adding to that every year. You'll want to make different assumptions. I would recommend seeing how much it would grow from a variety of percentage compound annual increases. So I would say you can calculate the numbers differently and use, for example, 4% a year return up to 10%, depending if you want to be more conservative or not and how certain you are in your investment, let's say prowess, if I would put that. And then you want

to compare the value of your total returns with that down payment, the additional money you would put every year versus the value of your home, what it will be at the end of your mortgage. So in terms of the inflator for the value of your own, I would say 3% to 4% every year is probably around where it should be in terms of compound annual growth rate. And then you just compare both numbers at the end to see which one makes the most sense financially. So I know it's quite a bit of information at once, but it's not all that hard to do. You can just kind of create a spreadsheet. You can use compound calculators. You can find them pretty

much anywhere on the internet. And then you can just plug the numbers in and you'll see depending how hot a certain market could be in terms of the real estate for owning versus renting, one may make more sense than the other. Again, there might be some advantages that are really important to you that are not financial that really tilts the calculation towards owning but it's really not always true that owning is better than renting i think we need to uh make a spreadsheet and put it on the site we should do that did you make one yeah when you were doing all this yeah i didn't make did make one. I'd have to tweak it a little bit because I had put some numbers there and put some formulas in. But I could probably do a Google spreadsheet and put it on the website and just put some information there and some notes so people know where to put the information. As do-it-yourself investors, we want to keep our fees low. That's

why Simone and I have been using Questrade as our online broker for so many years now. Questrade is Canada's number one rated online broker by MoneySense. And with them, you can buy all North American ETFs, not just a few select ones, all commission free so that you can choose the ETFs that you want. And they charge no annual RRSP or TFSA account fees. They have an award-winning customer service team with real people that are ready to help if you have questions along the way. As a customer myself, I've been impressed with Questrade's customer service. Whenever I call or email, every support rep is very knowledgeable and they get exactly what I need done quickly. Switch for free today and keep more of your money. Visit questrade.com for details.

That is questrade.com. So not so long ago, self-directed investors caught wind of the power of low-cost index investing. Once just a secret for the personal finance gurus is now common knowledge for Canadians, and we are better for it. When BMO ETFs reached out to work with the podcast, I honestly was not prepared for what I was about to see, because the lineup of ETFs has everything I was looking for. Low fees, an incredibly robust suite, and truly something for every investor. And here we are with this iconic Canadian brand in the asset management world, while folks online are regularly discussing and buying ETF tickers from asset managers in the US. Let's just look at ZEQT, for example, the BMO All Equity ETF. One single ETF,

you get globally diversified equities. So easy way for Canadians to get global stock exposure with one ticker. Keeps it simple yet incredibly low cost and effective. Very impressed with what BMO has built in their ETF business. And if you are an index investor and haven't checked out their listings, I highly recommend it. I bet you'll be as pleasantly surprised as I was that BMO, the Canadian bank is delivering these amazing ETF products. Please check out the link in the description of today's episode for full disclaimers and more information. All right, let's do that. And then when when it's done, we'll let you know on the pod, like next episode or the one after that this is available, because this is something that I feel a lot of people could benefit from is actually not only having the spreadsheet, but just seeing all the line items that need to go into the calculation.

And then at the end of the day, it is an emotional decision more than anything. I've always thought of the age-old buy versus rent because, say you do this whole exercise and you figure, okay, expenses wise, owning is going to cost me an extra $300 a month. You need to look at that and think that's a monthly expense that I'm willing to take on for my family to be here. We own the home. It's what we want. We don't have a landlord telling us that we have to leave tomorrow. So at the end of the day, you're going to find eight times out of 10, maybe that if you are a pretty good investor and can find returns elsewhere, that renting will be cheaper. If you actually do the calculation properly, which includes all these costs that people never

talk about when they own their home. If you do all of that, you'll find, okay, say eight times out of 10, renting is a little bit cheaper but you find value in owning your home you find this you find that then it's worth it right it's just like any other expense that you pay monthly you know you pay for a car because you get the convenience it's an added benefit to your life etc etc whatever it be. I'm about to spend a couple thousand dollars on a golf membership. It's worth it for me. Exactly. I'm looking at the annual dues. I'm like, Oh God, it's a good thing. I really like golf. And yeah. And my main goal here is just to make sure people think, think critically when it comes to buying versus renting, because you'll

get influence, whether it's family members, whether it's your real estate agent, you know, TV, radio, whatever it is, you'll be, you'll probably get a lot of outside influence trying to tell you one way or the other, probably most likely owning a home is always the best situation. And I had a pretty heated discussion with our realtor when she was trying to tell me that basically this, you know, the housing market always goes up. And I'm like, oh, yeah, well, you know, you should talk to people in Florida back in 2007, 2008, see what they think about that. So it's true until it isn't. Right. So that's why I was trying to explain to her. I'm not saying that it's not a good investment over the long term. It might not be the best investment for you. But it's just, yeah, be critical when

someone like is absolute on one way or the other, because they're probably wrong. That's probably I mean, it's true. I think that the right approach is to be nuanced, like Brayden and I are just saying right here. It will really depend on the market you're in, on your personal situation. Some markets, it may make complete sense, like it's a no-brainer to owning. Some others, I mean, Toronto, I think it's probably better renting over there, especially if you're downtown. I mean, I know that the cost of owning is so high in Toronto. So it really depends on the market. And rents have come way down during the pandemic. There you go. So I haven't done the calculations for Toronto. And I know you're more familiar with the housing and the rental market there than I would be, but it probably makes more sense to rent.

That would be my guess without looking at it more in detail. So just, yeah, make sure you do. Wait, you're telling me you don't have $1.8 million to buy a small townhome with one bedroom that needs to be completely updated? Not yet. Not yet. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. Because, you know, come on down not yet. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. Because, you know, come on down to Toronto. We'll get you set up. Yeah, and the Ottawa market has really gone up, and we're not, obviously, it's more affordable than that.

But, yeah, I'll try to create a little spreadsheet for you guys, at least plug in some information, and you can crunch out some numbers just on your situation and then I'll give you at least a general idea what's the best move for you financially. And Simon's not going to remove any of the line items so we can see exactly how much his house costs. Yeah. All jokes aside. Yeah. And actually, I wanted to add one last thing. And when you're owning a home and you're looking for a mortgage, I would strongly recommend going with a mortgage broker and not going with the mortgage guy at your bank.

If you get a good mortgage broker, they'll really be comparing with different financial institutions and show you what the best rates are for you. They're going to shop it around a little bit. Exactly. Whereas the bank will just it around a little bit. Exactly. Whereas the bank will just kind of give you their own rate. Whatever their rate is. Yeah.

And they won't try to give you necessarily the best deal because they know you're not shopping around most likely. So that would be another tip. And always crunch the number to make sure that you can afford it because the bank is not looking if you can keep your lifestyle. The bank is just looking at can you make the mortgage payment? What is the maximum you can do to just keep making those mortgage payment? If it means that you have to eat crab dinner every night, they don't care.

So make sure you keep that in mind, too. That's a really good point, too, right? So make sure you keep that in mind too. That's a really good point too, right? Because when they're looking at your credit risk, it's based on like, yeah, are these people going to be able to meet their obligation? I don't care what they have to do to do it. And I think a good rule of thumb

in terms of just financial advice in general is the first thing you do is should not be walking to the bank for any financial product. Like I'm trying to think if there's any exception to this rule. If you want to open an investment portfolio, where's the last place you should go? Your bank. It seems like that's probably a decent rule for almost every financial instrument. Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, there's no optionality. That's it. Shop around. And usually the mortgage broker, if you get a good one, they'll be able to explain everything to you. They'll tell you, OK, like right now, fixed rates are probably the way to go

for most people. And so depending on who you're with, the penalty, if you have to sell your home before the five years is over, could be really high depending who you go with. So that's something you will want to ask, okay, if I need to sell in two years from now, and break the mortgage, what's the penalty can be the difference between you know, $78,000 and 3040000 right there. So just make sure you do your due diligence. But a good mortgage broker will be able to explain all that to you. All right.

I think that does it for this episode, guys. I realized that I never actually plugged the counter on U.S. exchanges as TCEHY. So you'll know you have the right one if it's TCEHY and then it might have in brackets OTC or semicolon OTC depending on your brokerage. But TCEHY is the one that's actually listed in u.s dollars that you can buy uh i think they pay dividends so maybe rsp is the right place for it tiny very tiny very tiny so i mean maybe but as long-term investors the yield on cost might be pretty juicy one day there, Simon. It's going to take a while. The base is so low. It's so low. I didn't even mention

that they pay a dividend. That's how low it is. But again, TCEHY is the ticker. That does it for this week, guys. Thank you so much. We will see you next week. As always, GetStockMarket.com. You can make an account and see my latest report on Tencent and another company, a Canadian company for the Canadian portfolio that I bought yesterday as well.

And you can see that at GetStockMarket.com. No credit card required. You can make an account for free. Thanks, guys. We'll see you guys next week. Bye-bye. The Canadian investor is not to be taken as investment advice. Braden or Simone may own securities mentioned on this podcast.

Always make sure to do your own research and due diligence before making investment decisions.