The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz) - BONUS: How Do We Trust in Church Authority? (with Bishop Cozzens) (2024)

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

"In this special bonus episode, Bishop Andrew Cozzens joins Fr. Mike Schmitz to talk about his role as a bishop of the Catholic Church, his involvement in the Catechism in a Year podcast, and why we can continue to trust in the authority of the Church despite the brokenness of its leaders at times. Bishop Andrew Cozzens is the Bishop of the Diocese of Crookston in northern Minnesota.  He currently serves as the chair of the USCCB Committee on Evangelization and Catechesis where he has been tasked by the Bishops with leading a three-year National Eucharistic Revival." This episode has been found to be in conformity with the Catechism by the Institute on the Catechism, under the Subcommittee on the Catechism, USCCB. For the complete reading plan, visit ascensionpress.com/ciy Please note: The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children - parental discretion is advised.

I'm your name's Father Mike Schmitz and you're listening to the Catechism in a Year Podcast. In today's pre-launch episode, I have Bishop Andrew Cousins with me who's going to be our special guest that introduces the second pillar of the Catechism later on. Now he's introducing the pre-introducing the second pillar of the Catechism today. We had Jeff Kavens. We have others who will be after Bishop Cussens, Jeff talks about the Creed, and though the second pillar of the Catechism is the sacraments, and that third pillar is life in Christ, the moral life, the fourth pillar is of course prayer. But today, in this first episode, the Catechism will start in January first,

but in this first pre-episode, I guess we'll say like this, he's going to be sharing with us a little bit about his background as a Bishop, his involvement in the Catechism in a year. He'll also offer us some guidance as we prepare to learn about the authority in the mission of the church, which are so critically important, especially as we launch into this whole year of studying the Catechism. What God has to say through his church to us in our day and age. So without anything further, I'm so grateful. Father, I'm sorry, Father Bishop, I remember when your father cousins, but it's so grateful to have you, Bishop Cousins.

Delighted to be with you, Father Mike, it's an honor to be on your podcast. Oh, he's just, this is such an incredible. It really is a gift. When we asked who could be the person to introduce that second pillar, I was like, well, I don't know. What about Bishop Cousins? Because when you taught at the seminary, the seminary that I had also had gone to, I was

already gone, unfortunately, because everyone that I talked to who had your sacraments class in particular, your class on the Eucharist, they were just raving about this class. And I'm like, why did I get ordained so early? Isn't my question? And why didn't I get to have father cousins, now Bishop cousins as my seminary professor? But I'm so grateful for this. Can you give us, you know, there are some people

who might be listening to this podcast who don't, know of your story. Would you mind just kind of sharing with us how you got to be where you're at right now? Yeah, I'm very happy to share, you you know I grew up in a good Catholic family and I had the blessing of a family that you know shared the faith with me and actually I I wanted to be a priest from Very young age. I had my first communion in first grade my parish priest pulled me out of the other first grade class and For some reason chose me to make my first communion early so I could serve mass with him. So I made my first communion in first grade and then began to serve

holy mass with him in first grade and right from the beginning of serving mass I think I said I want to be a priest like Montsignor Barry who was my parish priest and was a mentor for me all growing up. But I also grew up in that time period in the church when we didn't always have great catechesis, you know, and although I loved the church, I always believed in the real presence of Jesus and the blessed sacrament. We didn't always have a good understanding of the fullness of the faith and all the richness of the faith.

And it wasn't really until I went to college when I met some people who were taking their faith more seriously. Actually, I met some net missionaries, the national evangelization teams. And these were missionaries who were traveling the country sharing their Catholic faith and they happened to come near me. And one of them happened to be my sister, which was the reason I went on the retreat that they were giving. But when I saw people who were on fire with their faith, I really had a desire then to

learn more about my faith and to study it more as a young adult. And that's also really when my thoughts about priesthood began to be much more serious. It had been a childhood dream, but it was in college when I really began to study my faith that I became much more convinced that God might be calling me to the priesthood.

So I ended up having a couple years after college where I did serve as a missionary myself, both with net ministries, the national legislation teams, and with another assistant ministry called St. Paul's Outreach. And then after that, I decided it was time to go to seminary. And actually, you know, it connects to this podcast because when I was in seminaries,

when the catacusum came out, and you know, John Paul II was my hero. He was like, he was just the man I wanted to be like. He was so alive and so full of energy. And when he produced, when his magic theory and his teaching produced the Catechism, it was such a great gift. And we devoured the thing,

we were seminarians, we had time in our hands. And so we devoured the Catechism because it was such a great gift when it came out. And to have the kind of fullness of breadth of it and all that it was. So I really always love the Catechism because it was such a great gift when it came out and to have the kind of fullness of breadth of it and all that it was. So I really always love the Catechism right from the very beginning. And then as I, you know, you grow in your own faith journey, and you begin to realize the importance of things like the Catechism and things like study. And I had the opportunity to do a doctorate in sacred theology with a focus on sacraments

and then had the opportunity to teach sacraments in the seminary where I had gone. And I really treasured that opportunity to study the faith more deeply. But I can tell you honestly, like, yeah, I have a doctor degree in theology, but I still use the catechism when I want to teach on certain topics because it's such a practical and actually really deep tool.

And so it's actually still a very helpful thing. Then of course, I taught at the seminary for about eight years and eventually I was made a bishop, an auxiliary bishop in the Twin Cities. And a bishop is a teacher. It's one of the things that a bishop's the twin cities. And, you know, a bishop is a teacher. It's one of the things that a bishop's called to do. And so teaching, which is something that I loved to do in the seminary, and I found grateful filming and doing, it became a part of my broader ministry that I was called to do all the time.

And again, I found the Catechus and to be a great reference. What was interesting is that eventually I was elected as a bishop to be the chair of the committee on Evangelization and Catechesis in the United States Conference of Catech Bishops, which I've now been serving in for the past couple of years And I've got one more year left on that on that term But as the chair of the committee that oversees the Catechism, you know, the church owns the catechism, we would say, you know, and so my committee's in job, part of our job is to oversee the catechism, and for example, we ensure that when people write textbooks for religion, that those religious textbooks are in accord with the catechism, and they actually teach what the catechism says,

you know, to have some credibility. So I actually remember hearing about this idea, the podcast coming up, because it came out through the committee when it sent you in, and for the Mike Smiths, what I do, and I said, we have to do that. That is a great idea. To have this opportunity, just for the average person, to go through it every day by day throughout the year, I just thought that was a great idea. And then of course, the other thing I've been doing as part of my work with the United States comes to Catholic bishops or as part of my work

with the Committee on Evangelization and Catecheses, I've been charged with leading a national eucharistic revival. And this is one of the most exciting and largest projects that the US bishops have taken on, I think, and a real work of the Holy Spirit. And so it's also exciting for me to be able to talk a little bit with you about part two of the Catechism when that time comes because that's the part of the sacraments.

And not only did I study the sacraments and I talked to the sacraments, especially the Eucharist course, for me, I've just come to understand the importance of the Eucharist in our life as Catholics. And I'm so excited by this National Eucharist to revival to see the church herself say, no, we need to actually renew the heart of our church through the Eucharist and through our faith and the Eucharist. So I think the fact that all this comes together is a very exciting prospect for me. This is incredible. I just love hearing of you at the background. So I had just been confirmed in high school

and it was the next year the Catechism came out. And so you got to be inseminator anyone that got his came out. I remember being so, well, I was interested at that point. I at that point I had already had a conversion toward the Lord. And remember, because it was such a big deal for me that the Catechism was published because in your section, or you know, section on sacraments, on confirmation,

and it labels the five effects of confirmation. And I remember thinking, I wish I would have known this before I got confirmed, but I know it now, and I'm very grateful for that. But it's so clear, I love the fact that you are saying that as someone who has a doctorate, you use the catacism. And as someone who's a bishop, that you use the catacism. Because think about all of the people who are going to be journeying with us. And maybe with doctorates, maybe without them, maybe some bishops, maybe some non-bishops might be joining us. But this is for the faithful.

I think I remember hearing a story, maybe you heard this too. I think it was someone had written to Pope Benedict, or at least he got back some, some flack from maybe some German bishops who were saying, why would you use a catacasam? No one's going to buy it. No one's going to read it at all. And then I think he writes this forward to one of the, an ancillary supplementary book of the catacasam saying, well, maybe no one's gonna read it, but it's on the bestseller list. So in multiple languages,

but you've been reading it for a long time. Yeah, I've been reading the catacasim for a long time, and I actually use it. I keep it right by my little place where I pray every morning. And I don't read it every day, not even close to that, but I might actually start doing that

when the podcast starts because I'm excited to follow along. And it's nice to have that ability day, not even close to that, but I might actually start doing that when the podcast starts, because I'm excited to follow along. And it's nice to have that ability to go through something just a little bit every day and really get the consistency down. But I think, you know, what happened when the Catechism came out is people were surprised by the impact that it had. And, you know, I was surprised by the impact that it had. And I was surprised by the beauty of it.

It's just such a beautifully put together document. And those very first paragraphs where it just talks about the kind of God that we have and how God loves us and how he's always drawn near to us. And then this whole understanding that everything that we have and the church flows from one source, which is the Trinity. And the whole kind of pedagogy of the Catechism is just a beautifully put together document.

And I still find when I read it, it actually helps my prayer. And it's an interesting thing, because people think of dogma or teaching, you know, the Greek word for teaching is dogma. They think of dogma as kind of like hard, cold facts. And I think it can be further from the truth. Actually, it's beautiful because it's telling us about infinite truth and infinite goodness and infinite beauty. And your prayer gets enriched by dogma and needs to be enriched by dogma because dogma is actually putting you in direct contact with God. And that helps you to experience and know God.

And you can't love what you don't know. And so it really actually is a document that can strengthen your relationship, not just your intellect, but your heart. Yeah, and I bet I'm so glad you said that because one of the goals behind this, so one of the goals behind the Bible in a year was to recapture a biblical worldview. And to be able to say, okay, I actually, one of the goals behind the Bible in a year was to recapture a biblical worldview

and to be able to say, okay, I actually, one of the opening lines is like to see life through the lens of Scripture. And that's what we mean by the biblical worldview. But as you're describing the catechism as well, you realize you, like you said, you can't love what you don't know. And here is not just information, but it's an invitation to transformation. It's not just, um, here's data, but here's got himself and fathered son Holy Spirit, three persons revealing himself and revealing ourselves to us through not just the sacred scripture, but also through sacred tradition. And so I think one of the big questions people can have is what's the authority of sacred tradition or even what to say like this, like, what does church authority mean?

Because we're gonna say, okay, this is what the church teaches. Here's the catacombs, what the church teaches. What does, yeah, what does that mean? Where does it come from? Yeah, so, you know, all the authority in the church comes from Christ. And the church gets her authority from the person of Jesus Christ. The church is the body of Christ. The church is the

continuation of the presence of Christ in the world. And so all the authority of the church comes from Christ and really the teaching authority of the church is an attempt to be faithful to Christ's teaching and to his revelation. And when you begin to think about it, you know, Carl Newman, he has a wonderful way of speaking about the need for infallibility in the church. Infallibility is a big word and people are like, what is it? You know, what does that mean? And who actually thinks that anyone's infallible? But we know that God is infallible, right? God is not capable of making an error. And because he's God, right? And so therefore Jesus is also because he's God,

he's infallible, he's capable of making an error. And Jesus, he gives us a truth that is essential for salvation. And it's essential to know this truth in order to get to heaven. And it's the truth of his word, it's the truth of his teaching, it's the truth of his moral life, all those things. Now, God would not give us a truth that we need to get to heaven and not also give us a way to keep that truth safe throughout all of time. And so that's why He gives us the authority of the church.

It's the church's job to protect this truth of revelation, which is essential for salvation, because we know it's capable of being corrupted when you look at the history of the world. Sometimes that teaching can get corrupted, and we could lose the saving teaching if we didn't have the infallibility of the church. Now, the infallibility of the church is, of course, the Holy Spirit. It's God himself, right? God who is leading the church and guiding the church. Of course, the Catechism is beautiful about this because it explains that there are different

levels of authority. Not everything that a pope or a bishop or somebody like that says is infallible. That's for sure, right? I'm wrong all the time. that a pope or a bishop or somebody like that says is infallible. That's for sure, right? I'm wrong all the time. But when it comes to when it comes to revelation, which is what God has revealed, which is necessary for salvation, God guarantees that that saving truth won't be lost throughout of time. And he gives his this authority, which is God's own authority to the church. There's another aspect of it that's actually beautiful, which is, you know, because authority is not very well liked today.

It's kind of a tough thing, right? We're taught to question authority. And you know, well, by what authority do you have to teach, you know, so we're taught to question it. But actually, authority is a great gift because it allows us to be obedient. And what is it that saved us? It was Jesus' obedience, right? By the obedience of one man, St. Paul says,

salvation was won from the disobey, by the disobedience of one man's salvation was lost, Adam. By the obedience of one of one man's salvation comes to us. And so the same thing has to come in the life of every Christian. I have to be obedient to the truth of who God is and his revelation. And so that obedience is what unites me to Jesus' obedience, which unites me to God himself. Wow, that is, I love that you're able to make the connection, not just make the leap, right? And that, the sound of leap is, it is a direct connection between this recognition of we need authority in order to have obedience because it is the love of God in Jesus Christ obeying his Father that brought about the salvation of the world. It is, and then our subsequent obedience

that it allows us to participate in that saving action action and bring it allow it to change our lives and so we couldn't do that without authority Wow, that's a I'd never heard it articulated like that Bishop that's and I'd love that St. Paul calls it the obedience of faith, right? Yes, and so we know for example in the categories It makes this point and the creed the Creads, they predate the scriptures. They were the Creads that predated the scriptures. In that sense, there are some ways of what was revealed in the scriptures. The obedience of faith is to say, I believe that what is revealed in this Creed is true. That's what leads to salvation.

It's helpful to approach authority that way, rather than the prove it to me mindset. No, I actually want to be set free in obedience, and I want to know the truth, rather than this needs to be proven so that I can before I accept it. That's fascinating. I like that distinction also between the,

just here's an openness and just teach me versus the prove it to me. One of the things I've found is that, you know, the scriptures themselves, they don't often make an argument. They simply just, they reveal this God's revelation of himself. He's not arguing for his existence, he's not arguing for his goodness, he's just revealing himself. And something similar is, I'll talk to some people who will say, well,

you know, does the catacism, you know, offer a proof for X, Y, or Z? And it's like, well, actually the catacism just teaches. I mean, it gives a reason a lot of times for the teaching, but it's not trying to convince you of saying that. I love that. Teach it to me versus prove it to me. And the catacism really really almost, I don't wanna say requires, but you can go a lot further in the catacasem when you are saying teach me, rather than prove it to me. Yeah, and when you understand that, as Jesus says, it's the truth with such a free, right?

And especially with the catacasem, because one of the gifts of the catacasem is we're dealing with it, this catacchism is published in 1980 something right? 1988 or in 1989 is when it first comes out the New Catechism. And we're dealing with 1988 years of experience. And this is kind of the gift of the tradition of the church, right? It's the wisdom of the saints.

It's the wisdom of all the teachers that go before us. It's the wisdom of all of the ecumenical councils, right? The bishops of the world gathered together and they discussed and debated and decided things. And we bring that, it's like this long stream that begins with Jesus. And as it goes, it actually grows with all this incredible wisdom, still from the same source, you know? But it becomes more understood, more able to be received, or another way sometimes the fathers that you're talking about as a tree, you know? Jesus plants this seed, but then it grows. And that tree begins to develop all these

other branches that they were already present in the seed. But we can fully understand them now because of the beautiful teaching of St. Leo the Great in the 4th century, or St. Augustine, or St. Thomas Aquinas. These are some of the most brilliant wise persons in the history of the world. And they have enriched and strengthened this whole tradition, which now we get to receive in the Catechism and it's all summarized for you and ordered for you, so you can receive you know, tastes and parts of this whole tradition all the way along the way. One of the things people are surprised by the Catechism is how much it quotes the saints. Oh, yeah, right. And not to mention a core scripture. Oh, it's so much scripture, so many saints. Like you said, it's the accumulation not only here of the data of scripture, but also

this resource of these people who lived it out and lived lives of discipleship of holiness. And like their words have wait to them now because like they lived it, you know, they they Interiorized it and actually transformed their lives. That's full. Yeah, we stand taller because we stand on their shoulders as the famous Saying is right and the beauty of the catacas. I mean it kind of presents that all to you in such an easy way to grasp, you know Well, you know, um you are on the committee for evangelization and catacasesis. So the Catechism obviously, Catechesis, but also evangelization. What you say is the connection or maybe even the mission of between the Catechism and evangelization. Maybe there isn't one. Or is there one? No, they're essentially united. The purpose of the Catechism is for evangelization,

because the purpose of the church is for the angelization. The reason we have a church is to share the saving love of Jesus Christ, the good news, right? The saving love of Jesus Christ, so that more people can come to experience salvation, the great gift of salvation. And the Catechism is at the service of that mission. And so it's meant to be, in that sense, an evangelizing document. As everything we do in the church is meant to be evangelizing. And that is sharing the truth and the beauty and the goodness of our faith so that others might be saved. And so, in fact, this is one of the important things about the Catechism to understand it, that it's not just simply a kind of list of teachings,

but it's alive. The teaching of the Church is alive because it's the teaching of Jesus and Jesus is alive. And so in that sense, we speak about a living tradition, right, that we're all a part of, and we're experiencing, and when we receive it, it creates new life in us, new insights, new ways to live the gospel. It creates salvation in that sense because it's connected to divine revelation, right, which is the source of salvation. So in this sense, it's not a, it's meant to be an evangelizing document. It's also part of the reason that the Vaticanism uses saints and other people is because of the witness factor, right? Because all evangelization comes from witness. And again, it's the beauty of the Catechism, it's the witness of almost 2000 years that's coming to us now. The witness of all those who lived the faith and the various aspects of the faith throughout these 2000 years. So that becomes a very evangelizing thing for us.

And people who study the, the Catechus and find their faith being increased. Well, that makes sense. That the more, like you mentioned before, how can you love what you don't know? And the more you come to know the Lord, the more you know you can trust Him, the more you know that you will,

the more you can have the capacity to love because you know what you're loving. But also, whenever it comes to like faith and growth and faith, one of the things that I'm a simple guy in some ways, and when it comes down to like, there's so many incredible ways to try to communicate what is faith. And sometimes it just seems to me that faith isn't just, or I believe these propositions. And it doesn't stop here, but I think there's a really incredible, essential part of faith that is trust. That's the sense of, it's relational, that I trust you because I know you.

And there's that sense of, with the Lord as well, where in some ways, I have to approach him without skepticism, but with the disposition as well, where in some ways have to approach him without skepticism, but with the disposition of trust. And I guess when we're approaching the catacism, there might be the temptation. We already talked about, you know, teach me versus prove it to me, that skepticism versus, okay, I'm going to trust here. I guess, I don't know, how would you invite people to approach the catacism with that disposition of trust and openness? Yeah, you know, so Faith you're exactly right. It's always a relational act. I always have faith in a person

Not faith in a thing right, so I often talk about like natural faith when I come up to a four-way stop And I'm stopped and the other car is coming I go before that car stops because I basically have faith that the other guy is going to stop at that stop, right? But I don't have faith. It's worked every time. Yeah, almost. I don't have faith in the stop sign. I have faith in that person.

It's a relational act, right? And it's the same thing with every paragraph of the catechism, why do I believe it? Because I have faith that Jesus is God, and what God says is true, and that the church is the body of Christ, and it's essentially connected to Jesus, and that the church, which is this community of believers, that God founded, that Jesus Christ founded, and that he then founded so that we could carry his teaching and his saving mysteries

throughout the time of the world, that she is a guardian of that truth, right? And so I have faith in the person of Jesus and in the Holy Spirit guiding the church, which is why I believe all the paragraphs of the catechism. So, you're right though, it's always an act of trust in a person. Now, the beauty is, even if you're a doubter, and all of us struggle with doubts at certain times, and so it's okay to doubt, right? You can test it. And it works. In other words, it's proven truth.

Proven in not in a sense of provable, because we're talking about divine revelation, things that are beyond our mind. But it's proven that it works. And you can read about the lives of the saints and look at the people who have tried to live this faith, and you see that it works. And it's the line from G.K. Chesterton, right?

Christianity has never been tried and found wanting. It's been found too difficult and left untried. When you try it, you discover that it does actually help you understand the way the world is and the way your life is, and it actually does also lead to fulfillment. Yeah, yeah, that is, and that requires a sense of trust first,

that sense of not just kind of testing it out in that sense of, I'll dabble, I'll stick my toe in and see if I'm blessed, or if I'm blessed as opposed to, okay, I'm just gonna trust you, move forward and realize that. Sometimes, sometimes we can only come to faith once we've started moving in that sense sense, once I've started trusting, there's that element.

I have just two quick last things, if you don't mind. One is, I know when we talk about the authority of the church and we recognize that, okay, so here is, I trust in the church because I trust Jesus. And I know that Jesus has established his church and he's promised that he's given up all authority and having on earth to his church, to guide into all truth.

And yet one of the things people come back with is, well yeah, but there's so much brokenness in the church. And look at history and history demonstrate. So you're saying you want to talk about proof. Well, history proves, in our current experience proves, right, that as you mentioned, Holy Spirit is the soul of the church, but also there's a bunch of broken people in it too. How would we kind of reconcile that? Or would

you do with that? Yeah, one Catholic writer he said, original sin is the only Catholic dogma we can prove. They don't have to go far to prove it. You just read the newspaper and you just look into your own heart. You can prove it, right? We know that we're fallen broken human beings. And that's the point. All of the brokenness of the church can be accredited to fallen broken human beings. And human beings have not lived up to the gospel that Jesus left us.

And because of that brokenness, lots of damage has been done at different times in the world. But that's actually, oddly enough, it's a a proof of it's an evidence for why the church can be trusted, because despite all those errors and brokenness throughout 2000 years and all the ways that the leaders of the church have often messed up and some of them done very sinful and terrible things, the fact is the truth has been maintained. So there's the famous story of Napoleon when he had one of the Cardinals of Rome in prison and he said to the Cardinal, he said, you know, we're going to destroy your church. And the Cardinal said, you can't destroy the church. We priests have

been trying to do it for, you know, 1500 years. We can't do it. Because the Holy Spirit's guiding the church, she has continued to remain faithful and always will to the truths that God has revealed, even though there's a lot of brokenness in sin and will continue to be sadly in her members, even in her leaders sometimes. So it is important to make that distinction, right? Between the brokenness and the sinful actions of individuals, and the teaching of the church, which continues to come down to us through the ages. Well, I'm glad you said that too, because there's a sense of all of the things people point to and say here is the, you know,

the, the reasons why you wouldn't be able to trust the church all come from a failure of its members to live up to the teaching. Like every one of those people we point to actually are failing to live up to the consistent and beautiful and entire teaching of the church. And so the teaching itself isn't wanting. It's the, it's us living up to that that is wanting. I think that's important probably to keep in mind. One last question just you know as we conclude this and then we're going to get to talk again before we introduce the second pillar in roughly a quarter of a year. Give her takeover long that's going to be. But any any kind of last words for the people listening to this podcast as they are getting geared up for January

first and as they're getting ready to press play on day one any any kind of last words for the people listening to this podcast as they are getting geared up for January 1st and as they're getting ready to press play on day one. Any kind of last words that you'd like to share with our listeners? You know, I would just say that if you spend time studying and reading the categories, and you're going to find practical help, deeper understanding, deeper inspiration, deeper love, incredibly interesting facts, you're going to find that what's rolled out before you is in fact the most beautiful thing in the world because it's actually a study of God, right? All the Catechism is a study of God himself and his revelation. And it all flows from God and leads back to God. And the Trinity is the source of it all.

And the more you study baptism, the more you study the moral life, you're actually seeing a part of the beauty of God. And that's going gonna change your life, and it's a beautiful thing when it happens. And all of us, I discovered too, when I read the Catechism, I discover something new that helps me understand more deeply who God is. And hopefully it will push you even deeper into your own

study and relationship beyond, because we will never tire of studying God. That is great. Yes. Practice will help, deep understanding, deeper love, will never tire of having come into a deeper understanding of God.

I love it. Bishop, thank you so much for joining us today. A couple of things for those listening to this podcast and getting ready to press play, if you're interested in getting your copy of the reading plan for the Catechism Enere, you can visit ascensionpress.com slash C-I-Y. So C-I-Y standing for Catechism Enere, so ascensionpress.com, slash C-I-Y. Or if you want to get speed up the process, you can text the letters C-I-Y to the number 333-777, very biblical, very trinitarian, very Sabbath, so C-I-Y to the number 333-777.

Also, you can subscribe already. You can already click on Follow in your podcast app to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Maybe you can't find it, but it will find you, I promise you, but if you can track it down, you can subscribe or follow in your podcast app to receive daily updates and daily notifications. Let me say a quick prayer. And then, yeah, we'll conclude this time, Father in heaven. We'd give you thanks and praise because you have revealed yourself to us. You have given us your son, given us your son who lived for us, who died for us, who rose from the dead for us, who sent the Holy Spirit with you, Father, to us and gave us your church. You established that body of Christ so that we could be led into

all truth. We ask you to please continue to fill us with your Holy Spirit, continue to guide the church, continue to help us to overcome skepticism, to overcome discouragement, to ever come doubt, and to learn how what it is to trust in you, to learn what it is to hope in you, and to learn what it is to allow ourselves to be loved and led by you. And thank you for this opportunity to talk with Bishop Cousins. Thank you for every person who's joining us and this on this these pre episodes as we begin to prepare our hearts in our minds to listen to the Catechism in the year, we thank you for every one of them. Ask you, Father, to bless every one of them right now in this moment. You know their needs. You love them in their need.

Come to us all in this moment. We make this prayer in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Bishop once again, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you for having my God bless you. You too.