The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz) - Day 308: Same-Sex Attraction (2025)

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Fr. Mike guides us through the Catechism’s discussion of same-sex attraction. He highlights that all of the Church’s teachings on sexuality stem from her embrace of God’s intended and revealed purpose for sex. Fr. Mike stresses that this understanding of sexuality is core to our understanding of ourselves and the world in which we live. Today’s readings are Catechism paragraphs 2357-2363. This episode has been found to be in conformity with the Catechism by the Institute on the Catechism, under the Subcommittee on the Catechism, USCCB. For the complete reading plan, visit ascensionpress.com/ciy Please note: The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children - parental discretion is advised.

Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz, and you're listening to The Catechism in a Year podcast, where we encounter God's plan of sheer goodness for us, revealed in scripture, and passed down through the tradition of the Catholic faith. The Catechism in Year is brought to you by ascension. In 365 days, we'll read through the Catechism of the Catholic Church, discovering our identity in God's family as we journey together toward our heavenly home. This is day 308. We are reading paragraphs 2357 to 2363. As always, I am using the Ascension edition of the Catechism, which includes the foundations of faith approach, but you can follow along with any recent version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You can also download your own catechism in a year reading plan by visiting

ascensionpress.com slash CIY. And lastly, you can click follow or subscribe in your podcast app for daily updates and daily notifications because today is day 308. Again, we're reading paragraph 2357 to 2363. Yesterday we talked about the assaults, right? The offenses against chastity. So we talked about lust in general. And then, of course, masturbation and fornication and pornography, prostitution, rape. We talked about that. These big, really sensitive topics, you know, continuing the sensitive topics. Today we're going to talk about chastity. Remember what chastity is. Chastity ultimately is going to be the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man and his bodily and spiritual being. So sexuality is going to have

to be ordered. And what is sexuality ordered towards? Remember, remember this. Just like, look, we'll talk about this again, but sexuality is ordered towards two things. It's ordered towards unity, right? The good of the spouses, the good of the couple, the unity that happens, as well as procreation. So that is what sexuality is ordered towards. Just like speech, I mean, think about this. We're going to talk about the Eighth Commandment at some point of not bearing false witness. So what is speech ordered towards? Well, speech is ordered towards truth. And so any way in which you if if speech is used in a way that it's not ordered towards truth that's a distortion that's an offense against truth right so it's offense against the gift of speech so yesterday we

talked about some offenses against sexuality offenses against chastity so as we talked about masturbation it's not ordered towards life or towards unity therefore it is an offense against chastity right it's a sin fornication it's not or it's not ordered towards the good of the spouses right it is it is sex outside of marriage pornography same kind of thing that order towards the good of anybody, not ordered towards life, prostitution, same kind of thing. Today we're going to talk about homosexuality and the fact that homosexual acts themselves are out of order because they're not oriented towards, not ordered towards what sexuality is ordered towards, right? Sexuality is ordered towards the good of the spouses and the procreation

and raising of children. And so sexual homosexual acts by their very nature can never be generative, right they can never bring forth life therefore homosexual acts are always going to be distorted now at the time when i say again distorted from what from the order for which sex is made what the nature of sex we'll talk more about that as we launch into today so at the same time as you know i mean gosh you guys we've been journeying together for 308 days this is the 308th day you know that we're not going to barge into any kind of teaching we're going to we're going to walk into this teaching with as much respect, with as much care, because many of people, imagine, many people in our Catechism in a year community, this is part of their experience. We've talked about this with other things as well.

This is part of our experience. And therefore, again, we're not going to come barging down the door. We're not going to kind of start flipping tables over. We're going to talk about this as Christians. We're going to talk about this as men and women who are dedicated to being disciples of Jesus. And we're also going to talk about this as brothers and sisters, truly caring for each other. So please, as we launch into today, know that we launch into this as brothers and sisters. We launch into this as disciples of Jesus. We launch into this as true, truly sons and daughters of God our Father. So that's how we're going to talk about this.

Again, pursuing the truth, but also pursuing the truth in love. Hopefully, hopefully that makes sense. And hopefully, you believe me, it's been 300 plus days. And so know that we don't ever, or I try not to ever, barge into those, especially those sensitive topics. So as we take this next step, let's call upon our Heavenly Father and trust in the name of Jesus and the power of His Holy Spirit to help us take these next steps. So we pray, Father in heaven, we love you and we are loved by you. We know, we declare that we believe that every person you have created is loved by you.

Every person you've created has been willed for their own sake. Every person you've created has a destiny and that destiny is you. that destiny is eternity with you, to know you, to love you, and to serve you in this life so as to live with you forever in the next, in joy and in your glory, in love. Lord God, for all of us today, wherever we find ourselves on this day, we ask that you please walk with us, hold our heart, protect whatever needs to be protected, pierce whatever needs to be pierced. Lord God, we ask you to melt whatever needs to be melted and break wherever our hearts need to be broken. If we have any hard heads and we ask that you, please,

these, crack those open so that we also can hear your truth. Melt our hearts so that we can love you and love our neighbors. To love your teaching and love your word, Lord God, is our call. To live it out is possible only by your grace. So send us your Holy Spirit, Lord God. In the name of your Son, Jesus Christ, as we take this next step today, we make this prayer in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. It is Day 308. We're reading paragraphs 2357. to 2363 Jastity and Homosexuality Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction

towards persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on sacred scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close

the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives, and if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross, the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity, by the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. The love of husband and wife. Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage, the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.

Sexuality, by means of which men and women give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way, only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death. As the book of Tobit states, Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety. So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, Blessed are you, O God of our fathers, you made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as helper and

support. From the two of them, the race of mankind has sprung. You said, it is not good that the man should be alone. Let us make a helper for him like himself. I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together. And they both said, amen, amen. Then they went to sleep for the night. The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable. The truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude. Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure. As Pope Pius the 12th stated, the creator himself established that in the generative function, spouses should

experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation. The spouse's union achieves the twofold end of marriage, the good of the spouses themselves, and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple's spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family. The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity. All right, there we have it.

Paragraphs 2357 to 2363. Now, one of the things we're going to find today is, especially as we look at these first three paragraphs, 2357 to 2359, is here's the church's teaching on same-sex attraction. Now, this might be a little bit of a dilemma because I wrote a book on this topic. It's called Made for Love. and it's published by Ignatius Press. Now, this, obviously, the podcast is made by Ascension Press. There's no rivalry though. We're all happy family.

But that book made for love basically is if I were to read it out loud, it would be a number of hours. We do not have a number of hours. So what we're going to try to do is, as we mentioned in the intro, in truth and in love, try to unpack what is it that the church is teaching about same-sex attraction or about homosexuality. Now, the first thing we have to understand, the context for all of this, is chastity and chastity is for all of us. So keep this in mind. Keep this in mind is that every single

one of us is made, we've been talking about this for 300 plus days. Every one of us is made in God's image. Every one of us has a dignity. Every one of us is made for love. Remember what love is. Love is that willing the good of the others, becoming a self-gift that is ordered towards and oriented towards life. And so keep that in mind. At the same time, every one of us is also broken. So again, every one of us is good but broken. Every one of us has desires that are ordered towards good. And every one of us has desires that are ordered towards. And remember concupiscence. Remember this. So please let's not disengage our brains. Let's not disengage our faith. When it comes to any of our topics, this is one of those topics that we must not say, okay,

this is an exception or this is that that's a tendency we sometimes can have sometimes we can have the tendency to say well if a person experiences this kind of desire that's how god made them well let's pause on that for a second god made you and sometimes you want something that's not good for you we talked about yesterday pornography as in one example so god made you and you might desire to look at pornography does that mean that god wants you to look at pornography no of course not. It means you're made good, but we're all broken. We all have concupiscence that you might be married. You might also desire, sexually desire someone other than your spouse. Does that mean that God made you that way? No, it means that God made you good, but we're all

broken. We all have concupiscence. We all have things that we desire that we have to say no to if we're going to actually become the people God wants us to be. So does that make sense again? So this is a, I always, whenever I try to address this topic, I always try to make it very clear or hopefully at least convey the reality that these three paragraphs from 2357 to 2359 is not about those people, right? It's not about others. It's not about them. It's about all of us. This is what the church teaches about people who experience same-sex attraction is what the church teaches about all of us. So this isn't an exclusive teaching. This isn't just for some. This is a teaching for all of us, every one of our sexual acts must be oriented towards procreation and unity, or else

it's a distortion. I mean, let's even back up before we even look at the paragraphs here. This is part of the stuff in the book, but I don't mean to go on and on about this. But if we just back up for a second, and even before we look at theology, let's just look at philosophy. Let's look at what is the nature of a thing. Like with the nature of a thing, the what it isness of a thing. Some people don't like when I say that. phrase, but hey, it's my podcast. I'll do it. What the what it isness of a thing is the nature of a thing. And you can tell the what it isness of a thing. You can tell what a thing is if you know what it's for. So the what it isness, what's the nature of eating? Well, what's eating for?

Eating is for nourishment and pleasure. You get those two things out of eat, the act of eating. So eating is for nourishment and for pleasure. And so if I know what a thing is for, then I know that I can actually violate the nature of a thing. So, for example, if a person were to eat and then make themselves throw up, they'll be violating the nature of eating because what it's for is nourishment. And now you're preventing yourself from actually nourishing yourself. Now, at the same time, eating is also for pleasure, right? We experience pleasure in eating.

And so we know that there are some times where you might get done with a great meal and the waiter comes along and says, do you want some dessert? and you're like, yeah, not because you need nourishment, but because you just want the pleasure of the eating. Now, if you eat that cake for the pleasure, you're still taking in whatever nourishment that cake is giving you. You're not working against the nature of cake just by simply saying, in this case,

I'm eating the cake merely for the pleasure of it. You're not violating the nature of nourishment, right? Does that make sense? You're not violating the end. Something similar is true when it comes to the sexual act. What is sex? Well, what is it for? It's, I mean, if you were simply to be a scientist

and observe what is the sexual act oriented towards what is it for you recognize that the nature of sex right the nature of the sexual act is it's oriented towards the unity of the spouses i mean there is there are there are chemicals there are hormones that are released when a couple enters into the sexual embrace that actually are bonding pairing chemicals it's remarkable it's remarkable that actually monogamy is written into your very biology that that actually it's meant to be this where one's sexual experiences are between you and that other one other person. Again, the bonding chemicals that are released in the sexual act are meant to be just, again, monogamous.

That's written into the human biology. You say, what's it for? It's for that unity of the spouses. What else is it for? Well, clearly it's oriented towards procreation. And so that's the what is it for? Now, are there times where a couple may enter into the sexual embrace simply for the joy and the pleasure of entering the sexual embrace.

Yeah, that might be the motive. In fact, paragraph 2362 talks about this and says that the creator himself, this quote from Pope Pius the 12th says the creator himself established that in the generative function right in the sexual act, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. So they do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. Now, as long as they're not violating the procreative aspect, right? So they can seek that pleasure, seek that enjoyment of the unity of the spouses in the sexual embrace as long as they're not actively violating the procreative aspect of sexuality, right,

of the sexual act. Now, keeping that in mind, so that means everybody, as they enter into the sexual embrace, that sexual act must be oriented towards unity in the sense that it can never be forced, it can never be manipulated. It also must be oriented towards procreation. Every sexual act that is not ordered towards both of those is disordered. why because it violates the very nature of sex does that make sense so this is for all of us again these three paragraphs are not for one group of people this is not for them this is for us because it's not just them you guys every one of us is created good and every one of us has been broken every one of us is made in god's image and every one of us wants things that are not good for us so when the church

teaches here in paragraph 2357 that says declares that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered What that means is they're not ordered towards life. They're not ordered towards the actual nature of the sexual act. It is not saying that any one person or any group of people is more gravely disordered or more intrinsically disordered than the rest of us. We are all, we all have a broken sexuality. That's just the case. We all have sexual desires that have to be said no to. So this is not just them or us.

This is all of us. every one of us. And the church is teaching on homosexuality, the church is teaching in same-sex attraction is part of a seamless garment, right? It's part of a whole. It's not exclusive. Okay, so let's, let's launch into this. So 2357, yeah, now we'll get started on this paragraph 2357. It basically defines what homosexuality is. It also says, it takes on, has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. That makes sense. People say, well, what about the ancient Greeks? What about the Romans? Like, yep, there's different cultures that have homosexuality. It's not like this is recently invented. The church acknowledges that this

is part of the human experience. It goes on to say it's psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Some people say it's nature. Some people say it's nurture. Some people say there's a quote unquote gay gene. The genesis of this, where it comes from, we don't know. But the church doesn't take any time to say, where does this come from? We all know where every one of our desires comes from. We also know where every one of our broken desires comes from. Our desires, were made for love, we're made for good, we're made for truth and beauty. That comes from God. And also, we recognize that when we want a distorted version of truth or beauty or love, that comes from our brokenness. So going on, basing itself on sacred scripture, which presents

homosexual acts of acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. Let's pause on this for one second, too. You will find some Christians, maybe some Bible scholars, Bible teachers who will say that all the occasions, in the Bible that Christians, other Christians, do more traditional Christians will point to that condemn homosexual acts, that they're not really talking about homosexuality as we understand it now.

That is not the case, that's never been demonstrated. There are many places in scripture where it's absolutely clear that homosexual acts are sins, not just sins of power or dominance over another, not simply acts of sexual assault, but homosexual acts by the very nature, in scripture are clearly condemned in anyone who's going to say that that's not the case, they're distorting scripture for the sake of their own agenda. That's just the truth. It goes on

to say they are contrary to natural law. And again, just like masturbation is contrary to natural law, they close the sexual act to the gift of life. So just like masturbation or contraception or how we're talking about here now, homosexual acts, they are closed to the gift of life. Therefore, they're always going to be in Translative Disorder. They're all going to be acts of grave depravity. And they do not proceed from a genuine, affective, and sexual complementarity. We talked about this a couple days ago, and we can talk about this later on as well. But sexual complementarity is a real thing.

We mentioned how the human body on its own is completely intact, that every system in the human body is completely intact and doesn't need anything else to function except for the reproductive system. The reproductive system needs another body in order to actually do what it's designed to do. It doesn't just need another body. It needs a complementary body. If it's a male body, it needs a female body. If it's a female body, it needs a male body. So again, there's this genuine affective and sexual complementarity that is necessary in the sexual act. And homosexual acts don't have that. And so, as it says in the last sentence here, under no circumstances can they be approved. You know, there's this big actual literal scandal happening in Germany with some of the German bishops who are saying, well, maybe in some cases these can be approved.

Maybe in some cases this could be, and the church is saying absolutely not under no circumstances can they be approved. Now, that's the, I don't want to say the difficult paragraph, but that's the paragraph that is saying, okay, here is the church's teaching when it comes to the no. On the other hand, here's the yes, here's the heart of the church. and 2358 goes on to say the number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible meaning there's i mean again part of this community there's a many people who experience this so the church isn't saying well this is this belongs to such a few people i imagine that every person who is listening to this podcast you know someone you're related to someone you are someone who experiences same-sex attraction so the church is saying that no that's

The number of people who experience this is not negligible. It goes on to say, this inclination, yes, which is objectively disordered, again, just like a temptation to lie is objectively disordered. Remember because speeches are ordered towards truth. If I have a temptation to lie, that's intrinsically objectively disordered. It says this, this inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. I remember talking, I've talked to so many men and women who experience same-sex attraction, who will say things like, do you think I've chosen this?

I would never choose this. And I understand that, and I believe them. Constitutes for most of them a trial. I don't want to feel this way. I do, though. So what must the church do? It says, they must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Absolutely.

Amen. 100%. Why? Because if they're baptized, they're sons and daughters of the Father, if they're not baptized, nonetheless, they're made in God's image. So they have a dignity, an intrinsic dignity. Therefore, if we're going to say they, really, again, this is all us. It's not just them versus us.

It's all of us. Therefore, every person must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. This is the official teaching of the church. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. So unjust discrimination. Now, we know that there's such a thing as just discrimination, that we have to be discriminating in when it comes to discernment. For example, parents, you were discriminating when it came to who you allowed your children

to play with. If there's the kids down the street who are always throwing rocks at cars as they're passing by, you might say, I don't want you playing with those kids. So that's just discrimination. But unjust discrimination would be, I see children of another race. I don't want you playing with those kids of another race. Like, that would be unjust discrimination. So every sign of unjust discrimination with regard to people who have experienced same-sex

attraction must be avoided. These persons, this is the incredible thing, these persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives. So the church is saying that God has a plan for their lives as well. See, here's the thing, your brokenness, my brokenness, don't, that brokenness does not disqualify us from becoming the men and women that God made us to be. And the church is saying when it comes to men and women who experience same sex attraction, same thing, these persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives. If they're Christians, they're called to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross, the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition. And there are difficulties. I mean, think about, I mean, again, one of the things that moves all

of our hearts is when we have siblings, when we have children, when we have aunts and uncles, we have friends in our lives who experience same sex attraction. One of the big things that breaks our hearts is like, ah, but the loneliness they might experience or loneliness they do experience. That's a real difficulty. Or maybe even feeling like they have to kind of hide a part of themselves. That is a difficulty. It's a real difficulty. And the church is saying there are many difficulties that you experience. Again, we all experience these difficulties and I'm not trying to minimize anyone's or maximize anyone else's. But if they're Christians, if you're a Christian and you experience same-sex attraction, what the church is saying is what it says to all of us,

unite to the sacrifice of Jesus' cross, every one of your difficulties. Now, paragraph 2359 is very important it says homosexual persons are called to chastity but remember you can take off that first word and it's the same thing persons are called to chastity like all of us are called to chastity goes on to say by the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom remember that self-mastery that teach inner freedom we talked about this days ago we talked about how we are all called to an apprenticeship in self-mastery that's paragraph 2339 which is a training in human freedom so again can remember this is not us and them This is all of us. So the church teaches you, if you are heterosexual, the church teaches, yeah, you will need

to have an apprenticeship and self-mastery so you can have freedom. And the church says, yes, if you experience homosexual attraction, you also are called the self-mastery that teaches inner freedom. At times, the support of disinterested friendship. Yes, of course, because I remember talking to a young woman, there's a group in the church called Eden Invitation, and just what a powerful group. for men and women who experienced same-sex attraction. And one of the founders, she had mentioned to me, she said, you know, a lot of times

one of the pains is just, you know, who's going to pick you up from the airport? And it just, I remember when she said that, I thought, ah, yeah, I get it. At times by the support of disinterested friendship, like real friendship. Everyone knows this. Everyone knows the, you want to be someone's the one, right? You want to be someone's person. And that's a, that's a, that's a pain in the heart that if you don't have that, if you're not someone's person.

So there's a good in the support of friendship. Everyone's made for love. Remember this. Everyone is made for love. And the highest form of love, according to the Greeks at least, was philia, friendship. And of course, in Christianity we realized an even higher form is agape, that, that self-sacrificial love, that self-giving love. but friendship is a real good and there is such a thing as as non-romantic friendships where in some ways like no this is this is this is true philia we're pursuing the lord together

keeping well helping each other in our loneliness helping each other in through the ups and downs we're helping each other by supporting each other that's real so self-mastery with inner freedom friendship by prayer and sacramental grace, it says they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. And this is remarkable. Well, it's remarkable in the sense that I think there can sometimes be a stereotype that people have of the church when it comes to men and women who experience same-sex attraction. And that's kind of like a second-class citizen. And yet here the catechism is saying that by virtues of self-mastery, by the support of friendship by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely

approach Christian perfection. What is that? That's called being a saint. And the church is saying, oh yeah, this doesn't disqualify you from being a saint. We recognize that the highest, the highest thing that a person can do be, a person can ever happen to a person, is that they become a saint, that they say yes to God's grace in such a way that they become a saint. In the paragraph 2359 is saying, oh, yeah, absolutely.

experience same-sex attraction? Well, God's will for you is that you become a saint. And we believe it actually can happen. We believe that actually that is the destiny that God has placed in your heart. And yes, there is a cross, many crosses. I remember years ago coming across the story of two young Catholic men, and at one point, one of the, they were good friends. And one of the friends turned to the other and he said, he revealed that, you know, he was gay. And the friend responded with such graciousness and which such kindness you know he told me loved him and that uh that he was still his brother in christ and and he said well yeah but you know now i i i can't you know be catholic anymore he's like well why wait why well because because of this and and his friend had this you know

and they were good friends and they loved each other very well and so he had the freedom to be able to say this he said well what do you mean if it wasn't this it'd be something else I just remember being struck by that. Here is this one friend. You have a real thing, a real aspect of his life that is going to be a challenge. But if wasn't this, it'd be something else. That's true for all of us. I don't know how many couples have reached out to me, couples who are married,

who have still not been able to have children. Or they've had children, but those children have died. And their recognition of like, what does that mean for them? Does that mean that they can't continue to be married, that they can't continue to be pursuing sancthood? Is it mean they can't continue to allow the Lord to sanctify even their grief and their pain? No. But we recognize that as St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, there's no trial that's come

among you that's not common to all humanity. Every one of us has a cross in our lives. Many of us have multiple crosses. And if it wasn't this, whatever the cross is that you're facing right now, it'd be something else. Because that's how life works. And it's good, but it's broken. This world is good, but it's broken. Our hearts are good, but they're broken.

And because of that, we all have these crosses. And we can look at ourselves and say, I wish this cross was gone. Yeah, me too. But if it wasn't this, it'd be something. else since it is this again this is about anything that you might be dealing with right now whether it's same-sex attraction or anything else because it is this we have a choice i can either resent it i can give into it or i can surrender it to jesus i can unite it to his cross and gradually and resolutely with god's grace approached christian perfection i can this cross

can actually, it can actually become a ladder. This cross can actually become a stepping stone rather than a stumbling block that gets us closer and closer to Jesus. This, and again, this is true, not just about same-sex attraction, this is true, but everything, everything in your life that you find yourself right now struggling with. If you surrender it to Jesus, it can become a ladder to heaven. It can become a stepping stone to sanctity. and that's what God wills for you and for me.

Long episode, so sorry. But here we are. I'm telling you this. I'm praying for you. Please pray for me. My name's Father Mike. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow. God bless.