The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz) - Day 328: How We Pray (Part 4 Intro w/ Sr. Miriam James Heidland)

Episode Date: November 24, 2023

In this fourth and final pillar of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we learn how to take everything we’ve absorbed this year and apply it to our relationship with God through prayer. Sr. Miriam James Heidland, SOLT joins Fr. Mike Schmitz to talk about how to pray, some common obstacles to prayer, and some of the incredible fruits of prayer that await us if we put the next thirty-seven days of guidance into action. This episode has been found to be in conformity with the Catechism by the Institute on the Catechism, under the Subcommittee on the Catechism, USCCB. For the complete reading plan, visit ascensionpress.com/ciy Please note: The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children - parental discretion is advised.

Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz and you're listening to The Catacism Any Year Podcast, where we encounter God's plan of sheer goodness for us, revealed in Scripture and passed down through the tradition of the Catholic faith. The Catacism in years brought to you by Ascension. In 365 days, we'll read through the Catacism of the Catholic Church discovering our identity and God's family as we journey together for an hour Heavenly Home. This is a 328 and today, we're introducing the fourth and final pillar

of the Catechism to help me introduce pillar number four. I have a very special guest with me, Sister Miriam James Hydland. So, so grateful, that's easy right now, but before we get to sister, a few reminders. I'm using, as always, the ascension edition of the Catechism, which includes the foundations of Aitheproach.

It is incredible sister, and I were talking about how beautiful and amazing this is. But if you don't have it, you can follow along with any recent version of the Catechism of the Catechism Church. You can also, down on your own Catechism and your reading plan by visiting ascensionpress.com, slash C-I-Y, and lastly, you can click follow

or subscribe to your podcast app for daily updates and daily notifications. Today is 3.28 and we are welcoming. Sister, I'm James. Sister, thank you so much for being here with us. Hi, friend. I'm delighted to be here. Hey. I recognize Winniever, I talk with you how quickly I talk

because you're always so calm. And you have this sense of like just joyful peace. And I think, wow, I am scrambling like a... Well, people often compare the two of us because I think when I get going, I get really going. And they're like between you and Father Maximates, I can't listen to podcasts at one and a half speed between the both of you.

Like I have to slow it down. So I think we're in good company. Let's get that. I think it's a sign of a bright mind. That's what I like to tell you. Also, it's a sign of a mind that gets bored really quickly. So I need to speak. So sister, we know each other for a number of years. Yeah. I mind it gets bored really quickly. So I need to speak. Except sister.

We know each other for a number of years. But I'm guessing there's some people who might be listening who don't know you or your story. Would you mind just how did you come to faith? How did you become a sister? Maybe something like that. Sure. I'm a member of the society of our lady

of the most holy Trinity, the salt community. And I have been a member of my community about 25 years. And I grew up Catholic. My parents moved to Mass every Sunday. And I think, you know, we went to CCD, all of the church functions, but I never fell in love with Jesus. And I didn't know that was really a possibility. And in our home, I talk about this very often, is, you know, it was almost kind of fear-based. It's like, you don't do this, otherwise you're gonna go to hell. And I learned some of the rules of Catholicism, but I didn't learn about the heart. And so I played Division I volleyball in college.

I wanted to work for ESPN. And during that time, I just also had kind of a pretty major meltdown in my life. And God sent a Catholic priest into my life who, and that when we would talk about the Catechus, we talk about prayer. I mean, my mom and dad were wonderfully holy, but there was something about father

that was just captivating of that man love Jesus, and I'd never seen anything like it. And I know that's where I grew up, my great love with the priesthood. And so I graduated from college, and before I started to work in the media, I went to one of our missions, and it was there that I heard Jesus call me.

And so that was 25 years ago. And that was, I mean, 25 years, that's the very beginning of a journey of healing and restoration. So I do a lot of work when healing retreats and things like that. A lot of work with priests and religious sisters in the area of healing. So that's a great honor. And that's so awesome, so incredible. So thank you so much for all you're doing. Now,

we were brainstorming like, who could, who should be the person that we get to talk with about this fourth pillar? And it was hands down. I was like, if we can get systemarium, that would be the best. So I'm so grateful that you're willing to say as to make this time. When it comes to this fourth pillar of the catacasement, or even just when it comes to the catacasement in general, I guess I don't know if it'd want to be too forward

about this, but how has the catacasement been part of your life? No, you could say like, I don't even know. And it's not really part of my life. But I imagine it has been. Sure. How was it affected or influenced your life? Sure. I think for me it was actually in graduate school.

So I did a master's degree in theology with the Augustan Institute. So I've known Dr. Sree for a very long time. And it was during, I mean, because you know, you use the catacism as a resource. For a long time, I thought of it as a resource. And so you, you know, you plan a talk or you want to give a teaching and you pull like the appropriate quotes from the catacasem. But in the class on Mystagogy, we had to read extensive portions of the catacasem

like long, and I remember sitting in my desk, just reading the catacasem, and I just remember finding myself weeping. And I would just close the book, and I'm like, this is so beautiful. Like, our special folk in Cheney, you know, very few people leave the church because of what the church teaches,

but what they think the church teaches. And I'll make, this is stunning. I just wanna come downstairs like, does anybody have any idea what people are like? So it's gorgeous and even reviewing this section for this time with you today. I'm like, Jesus, I love you. Like, this is so beautiful, heart, mind, body,

and soul, like our faith makes sense. And Lord's not asking us to deny our intellect, or to deny the deeper recesses of our heart, but He's bringing us into union and communion. And that's really what prayer is about. So I think we're gonna talk about it's not something we do. It's a relationship in it's who we are

with the Lord, yeah. That's so good. And especially, so everyone has part of this community, the Catechism and your community. Yesterday, for them was the last day of the third pillar. And life in Christ. And it was, when I talked to Dr. Mary Healy, introducing that third pillar,

we know we had kind of shared that there's gonna be some challenging pieces to this. There's gonna be some aspects where every one of us, we all have our preconceived things, our preferences, we have kind of our things that are like, oh yeah, this is what everyone should do. And other things that were like, I don't wanna do those things.

And yet, now we're making this transition from, okay, here's how we're called to have a life in Christ and can form our hearts to Jesus is into this section on prayer where that's, in so many ways, that's how our hearts become more and more like His. And yeah, of course, living, like according to his commands, but also like knowing his heart and just gives all God's grace.

We just cooperating with this. And so, yeah, especially for those who are just yesterday was day three 27 and they press play and they heard the end of that moral life, especially if they find themselves still convicted, I think, or still maybe challenged more than they are consoled, that I think that there is a word of hope here too, is that it's like, okay, you're not done if you still struggle. That the life of grace is theirs and we move forward by developing this relationship right there, in deepening this. So I mean, if it's okay before we go any further, if we just say a prayer, that'd be okay. And then we'll launch into this fourth pillar, this last section of the

Catechism. We'll just pray in the name of the Father, the Son, Holy Spirit, amen. Father, in heaven, we give you praise and thanks in the name of your Son Jesus Christ. We ask you to please receive our thanks. We see our praise this day. I thank you for the community who have been pressing play. I thank you for all of us who have been journeying through these first three pillars of the Catechism all the way to this day, to the beginning of this fourth pillar, this last installment essentially of your teaching, your self-revelation to the world. We ask you, please, on this day remind us that you desire not merely that we know more,

but that we love more, not merely that we know more, but that we love more, not merely that we have more information, but that we allow you by your grace and by our cooperation to have transformation in you, help us to be more and more like you. Lord God, meet us in our frustrations, meet us in the dryness of prayer, meet us in the battle of prayer,

and meet us in this moment as we open our hearts to you. Feel those hearts with the fire of your love and help us to love you and to love our neighbor better. Help us to be prayers because, Lord God, we do not know how to pray as we ought. So send your Holy Spirit now and always. And the name, and we pray this in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen. The name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Amen. So, Sister, as we launch into this fourth pillar of the Catechism, so there are some people probably who have never experienced or encountered red this section. So, what can they expect? Where are some of the main themes or takeaways of the fourth pillar on prayer? Oh, there's so much to, there's so much to glean here and there's so much to sink into. I, when I read it and was just praying through it, I, for me, it's such a beautiful revelation of the history of prayer, of the rich culture of prayer that we have.

And I think today, especially in kind of contemporary society, there's all these ways to pray. They're outside of our faith tradition. And we as Catholics don't even know that our own tradition of prayer. And so I think going through it and seeing it and just seeing all the beautiful reiterations of the ways we pray and even back from the Old Testament

and Genesis when God comes the search of Adam and Eve. And you see that call and response from the very beginning, we see just the human heart at prayer. So this is not something that we're going to put on our to-do list of like, I have to get my prayer in, but who we are. It's a response to the relationship that we have

is at a minimum, awakened to relationship. You and I in our hearts were meant to live in relationship. And to me, that's the, it's the whole mark. It's just so incredibly beautiful. I can't wait to dive into it. Well, as you mentioned, everything you're saying, I'm like, oh, that in this, and this, like so example, the call and response.

One of the real revelations or deep revelations of in this section, but also I think in the other pillars as well, is that I think we're going to hear today prayer is always a response. Yes. It's always God's initiative. Can you say something about that? Sure. Well, the man's creation is a response to God's goodness.

The very first paragraph of the Catechism, one of my professors, they guess institute, would always talk about that. Our creation is a response to his own blessed life. That's why God calls out. He's always the initiator of the gift. We say in the theology of the body that the man's initiator of the covenant. God's initiator of the covenant. He's initiator of the gift.

We as the bride and whole are responding as the bride to the gift of the bridegroom. God's desire, any desire that we have for prayer, any desire for a desire, maybe one day have a desire It comes from God so we don't have to as Father Mark two says we don't have to do the heavy lifting right every everything we have is gift and It's that's it's like terrifying for us because we're just make our minds that were so little and we're not in control Thank God, but it's so beautiful because that means every aspect of my life is under the sovereign Lordship of Lord Jesus Christ and he comes to reveal himself at all times. And that's beautiful.

If God is the initiator and all our prayers always responds. Yes. How does that change how we approach prayer? Like how is that, how is that change how you approach prayer when this truth is not just kind of like, oh yeah, I know God initiates and I respond. But how has that changed your prayer to know this deep

and profound truth that like Father Mark said, God's doing the heavy lifting. We don't have to do that. Oh, I think it gives us, well, it gives us great comfort. I think on a human level that this is not all up to me. And many times I think it does feel like it's all up to us. And we probably all showed up to prayer times and be like Lord, anytime you want to do something, like I'm doing it, like you want to, does feel like it's all up to us. And we probably all shut up to prayer times and be like,

Lord, anytime you want to do something, like I'm doing it, like you want to, you know, it's just so great. We're just so little like that. But the truth that God is real, that this is not, we're not manifesting to the universe. And some random intention that we hope the universe hears and responds, but we're speaking to a real person, divine person, we're speaking to Jesus,

we're speaking to the triune God who makes the covenant with us, who dwells within us. And I really believe, divine person, we're speaking to Jesus, we're speaking to the triune God who makes a covenant with us, who dwells within us. And I really believe, Father Mike, like I really believe when St. Paul says, you know, pray without ceasing, he's talking about the wine cello like in the song of songs. He's talking about the constant communion of the covenant that God makes with us that we can't make with ourselves, that God gives that to us and he brings us into his own divine life. And that changes everything.

That means I'm never alone. That means for all the experiences you and I have had of a baniment or rejection or fear or shame or overwhelm, it stands right in the face of all those human experiences that God is who he says he is. And that's scripture, right? That's Bible and ear. That's God is who he says he is.

And the more like Moses, I come into agreement with that. And the truth I'm learning more about God, then I rest more deeply. And then the truth of my being comes into agreement with that and the truth I'm learning more about God, then I rest more deeply and then the truth of my being comes alive and that changes everything. So it sounds like the one of the things you're saying is the relationship is the key here because it's not, you're not just going through the motions, you're not just saying these words.

In fact, Mike Gormley, you know Gormley, Jackson, he's so wonderful. He's so great. I one point, I remember, he was years ago and he's stuck with me. He said as Catholics, we weren't necessarily taught. He said we were taught. How does we taught to say our prayers, not how to pray? Amen. And so that sense of like what we're saying is no, the way we pray always is by living in this relationship with God. So it's the matter of he's always initiating.

And we always have the opportunity to respond. I love the idea, not the idea, the truth, that if God is initiating always, we never have to fight for His attention. That's a good word. That's the heavy lifting. It's the only thing. It's why it always reminds me of the very first paragraph here. I think it's first paragraph yet is where St. Teresa says, for me, prayer is a surge of the heart. It's a simple look turned toward heaven, cry of recognition and love embracing with trial and joy. That sense that she just gets to look at the father, he's already gazing at her. Yeah.

And he's already, he's already the one moving. Mm-hmm. And that's the beautiful relationship between us as children. Children have a good father. Yeah. And if there's somebody really real on the other end of my conversation, and there's somebody who's really receiving and who really who then is Responding to me. That's a very different dynamic. And I love what you say. I really believe that we have to we grow from just saying our prayers to be coming men and women of prayer.

Yeah, that we are men and women of prayer. Like this is our life versus the I did my I did my thing or I said my prayers or yeah And then it's so divorce from the rest of our life. That's the integration that Jesus is calling us to because when you look at how Jesus lives, he's teaching us how to live and prayer with his father is at the heart of his life. And he lives from his relationship. He doesn't get his identity from his mission. We're not trying to get our identity from our mission

most of the time, but he's living from his relationship and from that relationship and from that intimacy comes the mission and he's teaching us how to be human. So we're always taking everything we're looking at Jesus and how does Jesus live? Okay, well then if he's living like this, this is how I want to live. Yeah, and so you mentioned that relationship precedes. So, rim is the act of life. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so especially for those who are like listening to this, a lot of times it's so the acronym is RIM and so relationship identity mission. But a lot of times when we are coming before the Lord we come we base our identity

Offer for mission. Yes, right? The work I have to do or the role I have in life or the role I have in the church and that gives me my identity What happens when that leaves and so we leave it backward? We live this backwards And so what we're called to is that relationship we are adopted sons and daughters of the father that gives us our identity as children of God and then we can live a mission within the mission and change but the relationship always is the source of our identity is that you know is that for you when it comes to prayer is that one of these themes that we are going to hear again and again throughout this pillar of the catechism we are because it's the whole reality is rooted in the depths of of our heart which it says like that we talked about in catacas in 2560. It's the heart It's so good to do that for us. Yes, so 2563 which I love and I this is I think shocking of Catholics And be like what the church teaches us because we have to speak about the heart because as you know scriptures Replete with heart language and Jesus speaks to us about the heart and so when we talk about the heart

We're not talking about passing sentimentalism or what I'm just feeling strongly. I mean, a feeling God gives us emotions as a whole other talk, right on emotions, and they're given to us to a moat, to be able to choose what is good, true, and beautiful. But when we're talking about the heart, you're talking about the core.

And what happens in our hearts matters, and what doesn't happen in our hearts matters. It's because it's from that reality that everything else flows. And so it says that, you know, the heart is the dwelling place where I am, 2563. The heart is a place to which I withdraw. It's so gorgeous. The heart is our hidden center.

Beyond the grasp of our reason or of others, so great. Only the Spirit of God confathom the human heart and know it fully. The heart is the place of decision, deeper than our psychic drives. It is the place of truth where we choose life psychic drives. It is the place of truth where we choose life or death. It is the place of encounter. And because as image of God, we live in relation, it is a place of covenant. The pillar on prayer is gonna unfold from there.

Because that's, and I love that we start with that. Because that's not at the end and say, oh, by the way, the disposition of your heart matters. It's saying, oh, no, no, this is why Jesus is from the fullness of the heart that mouth speaks. Wherever your treasure is or your heart matters. It's saying, oh no, no, no, this is why Jesus says, you know, from the fullness of the heart that mouth speaks. Wherever your treasure is or your heart is. And so this, it's the core of us and what's going on within that sacred place is so important. Yeah, the heart is the placement counter, heart, heart, place of decision. And there's this, the place to which I withdraw, like all of those. And yet, how, how tempting is it sometimes to just say our prayers? Yeah, just how tempting is it sometimes just like, no, I mean, each so it, as a priest, make a promise to pray the literature the hour is, you know, five times a day and make a promise to one

want it, we want to say, mass every day, we want to offer, you know, want to live a life of prayer. But so often the temptation is in the midst of busy, busyness is you just stand the service as opposed to actually withdraw to the heart. And it's one of those, you mentioned that there's all these different ways that we can pray as Catholics. There's different devotions and different, you know, tools of prayer.

And sometimes we can rely overly on the tool as opposed to allowing the tool to get to our heart, as a vehicle to get to our heart. I remember someone I know pretty well who I used to have per cards and I had a stack of prayer cards and after mass would just pray through the prayer cards. And at some point I remember just thinking and maybe asking, like, so that your prayer, like that was, well, I'm saying my prayers, I'm just praying the prayers in the back of the prayer cards. And no, that can be, that can be fine.

If that's, if that's resonating with their heart and it's actually the, the tool that helps them get to that place of depth, then that's wonderful. But I think sometimes I can become a trap because it can become the excuse or that maybe even like the boundary that, okay, God, you can't come past this because that what happens if I put the pericard down and I just talk to the Lord. Yes. Then, am I overly vulnerable in that moment? But again, at the same time, it can be great. I think about when it comes to Psalms, that in the Psalms sometimes, I'm praying the Psalms

and it's like, yes, that's what my heart wanted to say. Yes. But sometimes it also can be surface. So I guess we can be here or there when it comes to that. Well, then I appreciate that. Catechism talks about vocal prayer, meditated prayer, contemplative prayer. Always super-custom.

And so there's a symbiosis of things that are happening there. And I think all of us, that's why the heart matters. So I think we have to ask really, and some of us were never taught the prayer that way. Some of us as Catholics were taught the prayer of the rosary, and I love the rosary of prayer every day myself. But like that's, so the vocal prayer is like the high point

versus like the part of the rosaries to lead us into union with Jesus is to become one in his mysteries. And so I think we can always look at our hearts and say, okay, am I using anything in my life, whatever it is to make sure that I don't have to go deeper and to know that many times the things that we don't want to talk about are the very things Jesus wants to talk to us. And you're like, oh, I really know.

Also, I'm really grateful for you for many reasons, but one is that last thing. I don't, I wasn't trying to throw shade or criticize like the tools of prayer of like Gerkars, because you say, no, the church will go on in this pillar to talk about there are many forms of prayer. And they're all, they all can be useful. At the same time, will I ever use any of these forms of prayer as a way to keep God at a distance? Or will I let them be what they're meant to be, which is they'll give God access?

Yes. The access to your heart. Why do you think the Catechism devotes an entire pillar to the prayer? Because it's everything. It's like you said, it is our relationship with Jesus. It's not just what we do, it's who we are. It's helping us grow and union with Jesus. If that's really what Christianity is about, the Holy Spirit configuring Christ and me, like sanctifying me.

So it was making Christ present in me. And I look at how Jesus prays, and that's what Jesus does, and that's what I want to do as well. And I've read somewhere that actually, people say that you should read this pillar first, that you should really read the pillar on prayer first. And then from that lens, go back to all the other pillars of the catechism, because that's gonna help us understand

what is the church teach what it does on the catechism, or on the sacraments, on the moral life, on the creed, because it's going to frame everything in that relationship with the Lord. Because like you said, beautifully, the love is challenging. And there are things that as we read this, thank God. I mean, we should always notice on our heart what captivates and what challenges us because it's telling us two different places of our heart. And so love to be excellent and love to be in the School of Love, which is a disciple, is it's purifying and it's challenging. And so love to be excellent and love to be in the School of Love, which is a disciple,

is it's purifying and it's challenging. And if we don't have that continued anchor and we can wrestle, like wrestle all you want. And if we don't have that continued anchor of like, all right, I may not understand this, this is beyond my comprehension at this time, but I'm going to trust because God is good. But I'm going to let it purify me to become more excellent and more loving. And so this pillar on prayer, and I know it's easy, when you do a series, the end series has a least amount of listeners, but I hope people come back around because this is going to be really important.

And then take this and listen to the whole thing again. It's going to be really important. One of the things we did for R CIA is, so I teach R CIA up at the university, and we used to save prayer for the last two nights of the whole course. And it was going to, oh, by the way, talk to this guy you're learning about.

And so then what we did is we re-refashioned it so that every single night we meet for RCA, we have another aspect of prayer because it's just one of those situations where I was, if I just am learning facts about God, but I'm not living this relationship. And I'm not being taught how to have that relationship, how to pray then it remains hollow in some ways and the heart is missing in some of what's in what I would say. That's very true and it's one of the beautiful things when you teach children how to pray and you look at things like ketokesis of the good shepherd and the children are entering with their heart, the tactile and they're entering with their heart and they're learning about who

Jesus is and you can see them, you know, you can see them just kind of go into themselves and just really ask the like, Lord Jesus, tell me. And that part of our heart, which we don't ever adult out of. You know, we look at Jesus who's a grown man who still goes into the inner room, to the quiet, to pray, into solitude, not isolation, but into solitude. And all of us need, all of us need solitude with the Lord. Every single person no matter what you're doing in life, we all need that solitude with the Lord because that's when Jesus reminds us again of who we are and he refreshes that grace as our covenant

and brings us into deeper union. So solitude is something, I think it's fascinating that in our culture right now, we're lacking both solitude and connection. That's a great point. That's interesting. Yes, that's a great point. So it's rare that I actually am alone with the alone.

And it's really rare that I'm ever in real connection with others. And so we find ourselves in this weird middle place where we're just constantly being distracted but not connected. Yes, that's so true. And it really does reinforce, seeing the Gustons words so many years ago that we hear so used, you know, that our hearts are wrestles until they rest in you. And that's not just a nice thing,

you see a hobby lobby or something, you know? But it is, but it is, but you know, you can put that over your mantle right now. But, but it is true because how many, I mean, you know, we're just people, Father, like all of us experience like the wrestles as ever heart and we're trying to like, and we know, like, we know it,

but the theology of our heart, you know, it's like, what am I looking for to satisfy me something other than God or what am I afraid of? What am I afraid of to spend 15 minutes alone by myself? Like what's happening? That's, those are so many stories and the Lord would love to reveal his heart for us.

Well, that's the thing is you, you've been ministering with so many people and imagine that all of us we struggle with, there's obstacles to prayer. So what do you think are some of the principal obstacles to prayer for just most people? Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people, labor under the illusion that prayer is really not for them,

that holiness is not for them. Like, oh, it's for you and me. But like, you know, whatever your mom or four kids or your businessman or, yeah, I go to Mass on Sunday and I give my money collection to the church and I don't really need to, as if we'll just let those people

dedicate it to religion. And so most people don't know, the universal call to holiness first and foremost that the covenant that God made with us in our baptism that marks us forever as his children sets us in a relationship. So I think there's that, there's. So this qualify themselves in some ways,

or not only think of them, that God even wants that. That God even wants time with them Or I remember Father Thomas Du Bay, you know, he has incredible books. Yes, but one he was he was Asked about it said, well, I'm a mom or I'm a dad and I just don't have time to pray. Yes, and so what do I do? And he he your response was kind of sassy and he said something, oh, it's no problem. You can be a mediocre mom. You can be a mediocre dad if you want. Or you can take time and pray.

But obviously, if you're in different seasons in your life, you don't have the opportunity necessarily go to the average channel five hours a day, or even one. But that sense of, but if you're gonna be the person God wants you to be, we have to pray and at some point, regularly. So the first thing is this qualification. What are some of the other obstacles people are going to be facing?

Well, I think experiencing what it seems like a lack of time or even not even not knowing how like I don't even smear people don't many times. It's not taught unfortunately in our faith tradition of how do you pray? Like here's how you pray. I think on an honestly underneath it, there's just a lot of areas of shame. Even of like, man, if I really expose this part of my heart, God's not gonna love me, or the pain that we experienced are sorrowful mysteries

that have yet to be brought into communion with Jesus. And so there's a lot of reasons why we'll find, and there are many times very noble, like all these excuses, why? Other things to do. Yeah. So. I'm so glad you said that.

I would have completely missed this because it would have been like, oh, you know time. Sure. And busy and it's not a priority of kind of situation, but you're getting to the going to overuse the word we've been overusing of the heart to get to the core of this whole thing is I don't know if I want to get that close to the Lord. Yeah. Not because I don't love him, but because I'm a I'm a shame. shame. I don't know if just like, here's Adam and Eve in the garden. I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid myself. I don't want you to see me. Amen. And so again, these other excuses are just manifestations of a deeper reality. Yeah. So if this is where a lot of us are going to be, as we hopefully either continue or begin a life of prayer,

what would you say, Hes, that's okay, if that's one of the wounds we're going to give us a thousand things to do other than pray. What do I do with that shame? Well, one of the things that we can practically do is we walk through these days together is to be able to name what's happening in our heart and bring it to the objective truth. So, in our lives, we're bringing our subjective experience into the objective reality of God. So say, for example, like we talked about the quote from the catechism of that God knows my heart fully and He says He reveals me to myself. And I don't, so maybe it's like this area where we experience a deep unworthiness or deep inferiority.

And we might not know where that comes from yet., but Lord, I feel like I'm not even worth praying. You wouldn't listen to me. And even those words are telling us deep stories about yourself. But I'm reading here with the church's churches that you actually revealed to myself. So I'm going to start taking those things out and letting God speak to them. And we talk about, I'm sure, we talk about the sacraments. As Catholics, there's nothing that replaces a good, holy sacramental confession of,

of standing up the objective reality of like, you know what, Lord, the Lord forgave me for this. And so I can, I can with the Lord go to the deeper places of pain. But it's, you know, Mr. Rogers, like the beautiful in the neighborhood, he would often say that if it's mentionable, it's manageable. And so much of our life is not mentioned. And so from that, when we can't even name it, there's something about naming how God creates and He names and Adam names, naming what we're afraid of, naming the pain in our life, naming it,

allows it takes a lot of the darkness out of it and allows the Lord to come in with His light. So, the Lord is not surprised, He's not embarrassed of it. I think that's one of the most surprising things. Lord is not afraid of us, he's not embarrassed. And anything we're gonna find out these days as we walk through prayer, Jesus already knows that and he's already with us and that's so beautiful.

Yeah. That's the thing is like, you know, I often encourage our students to go to confession and in that confession, I'm like, you're not telling God something he doesn't know. Yes. But you're giving him access to something he doesn't have. Oh, that's good word.

That's the part of it. Yes. I think you said he knows all this you doesn't have. Like they know the depth of your heart, that sense of just being able to say, like you said, he knows all this. And yet, go back to the first point, we made, you made this entire day, is, and he's the one who initiates. So he knows your heart already. Yeah. And he wants your heart.

You know what, it's so strange, I've used this example and told this many times, when we go to Israel, one of the things we'll do at Cana is we'll have renewal of ours. And so I get to do a lot of weddings because I'm on count college campus and on their wedding day they're just gazing at each other's eyes and it's awesome. Like I take you as my wife, I take you as my husband and it's amazing. And oftentimes when people are renewing their vows at Kena or wherever they don't look each other, they can't look

each other in the eye. And there's that sense of like before when I gave you this, when I made this promise, like I hadn't failed yet, but now here we are 10 years later, 20 years later, however long later. And I'm looking you in the eye and you know that I maybe I'm, you know, maybe you know what I mean this, but you also know that I'm going to fail. And you know, I have failed. And so there's not the same kind of maybe naive confidence in one's ability. But on the other hand, mentioning shame. And so there's a verdict in gaze. But

there are some couples that I have, because I mentioned this a couple of times, who, man, they're locked on each other. And there's one couple in particular that actually came to the university and they said, could you renew our wedding vows? I'm like, you'll renew your wedding vows all the time. But and they were, I had never seen a couple like this. They were gazing very deeply. They were like intensely present to each other as they were renewing these vows. And afterwards we talked and there had been not just infidelity.

They're not only had been brokenness and addiction, all these things. Because that's the shame part. There had been such great thing mentioned that if you can mention it, you can manage it. There had been such confession to each other and reconciliation that they had lived the brokenness part. They had lived the shame part, but they also lived the bringing that to light and to see the love and respect affection they had for each other and the confidence not again not in themselves because they knew the brokenness but it was this renewed confidence that was even deeper than their wedding day. So they had lived through the shame but they didn't hide the shame and maybe that's part

of how our prayer has to be. Like when we bring it to the Lord in confession, we got, you know this, we've named it, you've dealt with it. And now there's some new way that we get to pray because I'm not deceived anymore into thinking that I'll be your perfect whatever. You know, I'm better out. Oh gosh, Father, I think everything you said there, that's the entire pillar on prayer.

Everything you just said of the gift of self, but also as the years grow, it grows a maturity. And the repair, like the rupture, the repair, the fidelity, the... I promise you, that's what it covenant, you know, as you know, covenant language is the language of I'm yours in your mind forever. And that's why we love marriage, like it's the icon, you know, jump all the seconds with the icon of how God loves us. But everything you just said, that's the battle of prayer, that's the obstacle of prayer, that's the Lord who's still faithful, that's the battle of prayer, that's the obstacle of prayer, that's the Lord who's still faithful,

that is the Lord who still invites our gaze, who never overtures gaze from us, who is there over and over and over again. And that's, you talk about the spiritual masters, like John of the Cross, Jesus of Avila, you look at people in our age who are just like Father Jacques Fouly, people that are teach on prayer, Father Bonapest Hicks,

people that teach on prayer, Father Garagou Lagrange, like you look at all of the generations that we have of these people and all of them talk about, coming to the end of our own strength. Like that's Peter and the Gospels, that's the charcoal fire, that's the human, that's the stuff of real human life. This is the stuff of real human life.

And that's what we ache for. We ache to epic, like to in our epic failures that someone would still love us and still believe in us and say, I know you. I know you. I love you. I mean, all of us want to love heroically and want to be heroically loved. That's the life that Christ, this is what the pillar of prayers all about is to enter.

That's the salvation history. That's the whole gospel summed up in our own hearts. That's amazing. Just even as you say, in some some ways the maturity starts when we come to the end of our own strength and and how I this is pretty remarkable to me that just as a reminder again we've been doing this for over 300 days something that's remarkable is the church has never condescended in her teaching here from pillar one through to pillar four. But I mean by that is the church hasn't isn't talking down to us the church isn't saying well

well I know you're just baby beginners in this whole thing and so we're going to treat you like it even in the section I'm prayer it's that sense of like no actually you're made for the heights yes um and this is going to this is where you're called, and it speaks so beautifully, right? And it speaks so, it's accessible. There's something about how the church isn't pulling any punches. If you're lack of a better term, I'm not sure what the best phrase is. I agree, yeah.

But there's that sense of a proposition of, we might not even realize how to the heights that God is calling us, in depth of the relationship that he's calling us to. But the Catechism here is just making it clear. If I could just ask you, so the Catechism will say some things at the beginning here of this section, that we'll talk about how prayer is more and more understood, the more more God reveals himself. But there's a section that says, in the fullness of time, Jesus reveals

what prayer can be because we get to see him in his prayer. So if you don't mind, what are some of the things we look for? What are some of the things Jesus teaches us when he's praying? Mm-hmm. Well, he's teaching us about what it means to be the beloved child of God. That Jesus is at all times the same person because of his identity of who he is. So Jesus is at all times the same person because of his identity

of who he is. So, Jesus is the same when they're healing him, when they want to make him king, is when they're crucifying him, when they're spitting on him, when his own disciples fail him. Like, he's the same person, so he's teaching us what is it mean? What does it really tangibly look like to be fully human because he's the man who's fully alive? And what does it mean to live in continual relationship with the Father? And we're seeing it in him and humanity's never seen that before.

We've never seen that revelation. And so when we, you know, he teaches us they are Father, he's Christ never waste words. And so he's teaching us the essentials of this relationship. So Christ is always teaching us about relationships. So it's only from there that he says, go and do what I have done. Love is one another, as I have loved you. Like, how do we do that? But we experienced first by allowing ourselves to be loved by him.

And that really is a school of love. And I think we were talking about before we started filming. This doesn't end. There's no end, you're perfect now. It's kind of like 3,000 and you're done. And that's the continual refinement. That's the excellence of love that we're taking this and we're continuing to grow. And that goes into eternal life with him.

But in that, we're seeing in Christ the literal incarnation of the belovedness, the beloved son, the beloved daughter of God. And not only is he just like this something we're looking up to, he's actually giving us the grace to live, to forgive, to love, to suffer, to live, enjoy, to live in the truth. And you just see the freedom. I don't know about you for me. I just one day in my life, I just, to be is free to love Jesus the way that he loves, to be that free, where you're not caught up in your own ego, or your own self-defense mechanisms, or the places where we have to make sure everybody knows we're right, because

we're important. It's like, he's so lovely. I just, oh, how could you resist him? I know. I can just have beautiful. So yeah. Well, there's how much of our lives are spent with image management and just that impression management of a situation, even when it comes to the Lord. Yes. How many people that I'll speak with who are like, I personally empties really shallow, it's really dry, and just kind of do some digging. And say, oh, and a lot of times part of it is mentioned shame, but another part of it is, well, I'm upset with the Lord,

but I'm not talking to him about it. Or I'm really going to struggle, and I'm not gonna give him access to it. Or I'm experiencing some kind of battle, but I'm not gonna invite him into it. And it's like, well, of course your prayer is dry. Of course there's this sense of like, it's shallow because it is shallow because you have this whole world

that you're not letting him have access to. As opposed to again what's revealed to us, I love how you said Jesus, he's always the same. He's always a beloved son, as you said, on the top of the world. And at a worse moment, he shows us what it is to be a beloved child of the Father when everyone's left you. And when all your hopes and dreams have fallen when everyone's betrayed you, and also what

it's like to be a beloved child of the Father when it seems like everyone loves you. Yes. He's just the same. And I appreciate what you were saying earlier, Father Michael, how the church doesn't talk down to us. Or I mean, thank God the church isn't like, well, you're just gonna be mediocre, I guess. I'm so grateful that it's a high standard.

Love is a high standard. And Jesus, you know, he's teaching us as the bridegroom as he gives his life on the cross for the bride. Like the man, this man of joy, who's like it's worth it. Like he's not like a helpless victim in that regard. Like he's giving himself as a man as the bridegroom to restore the church as the new Adam, and he looks at us and he says it's worth it.

It's worth it. And that kind of love, oh, that kind of love can't help but change us. We're like, all right, okay. Yeah, you know, so we just start again. We just always start again, you know. I, there's this saying uh, saying that, uh, venerable Bruno Lanteri, uh, he's, uh, he's a venerable. His name is Bruno

Terri's a priest. And he had said something along the lines of, if I should fall a thousand times a day, a thousand times a day, I will begin to get out. Trust the Lord's mercy and begin again. So there's this phrase in Latin, nook Chepi, which means now I begin. And I, that's a good one. It's, we's a, we built, we built a camp this last summer around this theme development of now I begin, just that sense of like when it comes to life of virtue, comes life of prayer is now I begin why? Because God's mercies are without end.

And so here I am with my brokenness, with my shame, oh, night run to run to the end of my own strength to be able to say, okay, Lord, now I just beginning I pick it up again and let him pick you up again. Just to give him permission to love. If I were to say, what is or ask you, what is your favorite section here on pillar four? Are there any kind of elements? You mentioned paragraph 2563 with the heart. Are there any other sections or any other parts of this pillar that you'd say, this is just something that speaks to my heart?

It's something that I wish everyone knew, or I mean, a lot of it, obviously every paragraph is great, including the nuggets. But what would you say? I would say the section on contemplative prayer. Oh, yeah. On contemplation. And I love that this talks about the most deepest inter, like the prayer contemplation. So 27.09. What is contemplative prayer?

St. Teresa of Avila answers us. Contemplative prayer, in my opinion, is nothing else than a close sharing between friends. It means taking time frequently to be alone with him who we know loves us, contemplate a prayer, seeks him whom my soul loves. It is Jesus and him and the Father we seek him because we desire him is always the beginning of love. That deep, later on it'll say contemplation

is the gaze of faith. It is Christ bringing us into Himself to me. Like that's the deep, that's the wine cellar. And that's a gift that God, Khreres always a gift. And I think we can talk about that. If this, like we said, is not me manifesting something, or trying to conjure up something,

but Khreres always a gift. And I think we can always go to Jesus and say, Lord, just give me the gift of prayer. Like, Holy Spirit, teach me how to pray. Every day, it doesn't matter. We don't know what we don't know. So like, Holy Spirit come, but that gift of contemplation of alone in the quiet

with the Lord where he speaks hard to hard to us where he, I really do believe for the mic that Jesus Whisper's secret's there that he doesn't share with anybody else. It's just like, there's a place that's reserved for just you and the Lord that, even if you're married, that's a place just for you and the Lord where that's sacred and the Lord delights

in us and he speaks to us. That to me is like my favorite place. I love that part. Well, even as you say, this contemplative prayer is to be able to pray for that even. Yes. To pray for that gift. I think it may have been a series of truths, a series of avalanches that if you're praying,

you're doing your vocal prayers, you're doing your readings, and at some point, if God brings you to a place of contemplative prayer, put the vocal prayer to the side and just receive it as a gift. Yes. But so often, I was like, well, no, I got to get through my prayers. And even, I don't know if I desire this. Remember the fear of solitude, the fear of shame, but as you noted in 27,09 is we seek him because to desire him is always the beginning of love. It's just that to desire him is the beginning of love. So one of the things, I remember being taught this at one point, it was praise you can, not as you can't. And I don't know who the whose principle it was, but it was like, okay, if I, I should desire

a contemplative prayer. I don't know if I want to. Okay. Well, then pray to want. Contemplate a prayer. But yeah, but I don't know if I want to want it. I don't know if I want, okay, then pray to want to want. Contemplate a prayer.

And if I don't even know if I want, whatever, pray as you can, not as you can't. So pray to want to want to want. And that sense of just wherever you're at, let that be known by the, I mean, he already knows it, but give him access, right? That sense of like, here're at, let that be known by the, I mean, he already knows it, but give me access, right? That sense of like, here's what I've got going on. So I love this, seek him because to desire him is always the beginning of love.

Mm-hmm, man. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's incredibly, incredibly beautiful. And I, and it goes on in 27, 14. It says, the Christian or contemplative prayer is also the preaminal and intense time of prayer, and at the Father's strength, and this is the Saint Paul's letter to the Ephesians,

the Father's strength is our inner being through power with this Holy Spirit, the Christ made dwell in our hearts through faith that we may be grounded in love. And so the more we allow that truth of the Lord, the love of the Lord to come into Rudus and ground us, that's where, like we said, the core of our being, that's where everything else comes from.

And I think that looks different. I know one of my dear friends said that she actually heard prayer life change when she was up at late and night with her newborn infant, and she couldn't go to the chapel anymore. She could, and she was overwhelmed, and she would just sit up at night rocking her baby. And it was in those quiet nights,

and as her baby cried or slept, that she would start to cry out to the Lord, and she said, had that knot, she would start to cry out to the Lord. And she said, had that not, she would have told you, like, I'm not even praying, but she's like, I realize now that it was at that time the Lord began to put intercessory prayer in my heart or this cry, like, as her child's crying out,

it's like her crying to the Lord. And I just think of how gracious the Lord is and the different seasons of life and our vocations to continue to draw us in that way. And so it's a continual drawing of the Lord who delights to be with us. Yeah, as you were saying that, I do this funny, because I was imagining here is this mom

who also is contemplating her child. Yes. In some ways, when it comes to you, if you boom down to intercessory prayer and we realize, but is something interesting that intercessory prayer, we know is efficacious right? Craying petition, prayer petition, efficacious does something but contemplation doesn't do anything.

Amen. And it's this, so I think for a lot of us where it's like, well, I'm like, I have to preach a lot and you get to teach a lot in that sense of like, okay, okay Lord, I'm in prayer because I gotta get, give me something to say. Yes, oh my gosh, yeah. The contemplation is just gazing at your baby. I just like holding this child and doesn't, you're not doing anything.

And this moment, the child's not being fed, it's not being what, it's just, you're just, this as it says, 27 and 15, contemplation is a gaze of faith fixed on Jesus as the quote from St. John Viennier, I look at him and he looks at me and just, yeah, it doesn't do anything. It's not useful. And so again, there's another reason not to do it

as opposed to if my identity comes by this relationship then this is the reason to be here. I don't know, something like that. Oh, that's stunning. I agree with you. And I think sometimes in our utilitarian culture, that's one of the things I'm like, I gotta do stuff. Like I don't have time to pray, I agree with you. And I think sometimes in our utilitarian culture, that's one of the things I'm like, I gotta do stuff.

Like I don't have time to pray, I gotta do stuff. We do, we all have things to do, but it's not flowing from our being. We're like inevitably, like we said, either gonna suffer from burnout, try to drive our identity from that. And so Jesus continues to, like he's teaching his disciples,

like we see how he loves, he's teaching them how to have our loves properly ordered how to have our life ordered around with the one thing that matters because like we are saying earlier like my friend even she's a better wife because of that time she's a better wife because of that encounter she's a better mom she's a better sister to her sisters and and who really who I mean who doesn't need to gaze upon the face it's like that's all right that's your favorite section my favorite section is the next page. Okay. It's, it's article two with the Battle of Prayer is probably whenever I'm teaching

anyone, trying to teach him on prayer is what this is one of the first places. Not the first place because I think before that we have to know the heart of the Father before that we have to know I can trust God with my shame. I can trust God by brokenness. I trust that He actually loves me enough that he, I mean, how about, who crazy is this? God wants to spend time with him, with us. We have the, the command we have to go to Mass on Sunday. So here is this precept of the church,

half go to Mass on Sunday. And so I go to Mass because I'm supposed to. But I don't know if we've ever thought it matters to God whether I'm there or not. Meaning it matters to God whether or not I show up and worship him. Like why would that matter to? Why would the infinite, the all-powerful, the eternal God? Why would my showing up and worshipping him for an hour matter at all to him?

Because why don't one else cares? And yet here is God who's like, no, actually it matters when you show up. And so when I know that heart of the Father, then it's like, okay, so, I mean, actually that's one of the arguments a lot of atheists will say, like, oh really? So it matters to God whether or not you act this way or that way.

And apparently he loves us enough that it does. So when I know that identity, then that's the next section of battle of prayer prayer because this line in 2725 is just, it's so good. So prayer is both a gift of grace, remember it's so God initiates, and a determined response on our part. The next sentence is the one that just,

I'm like, oh, because this answers so many questions for me, the next sentence says, it always presupposes effort. And so for me, because I remember trying to pray as a high schooler and as a college student and then beyond. And I'm like, I'm reading all these stories of saints and it sounds like it's really easy.

It sounds like they show up and I always describe it like this. They would go, you know, stories of saints who would go before the Lord and the plus of sacrament. And you know, hours would feel like minutes. And I would show up and minutes would feel like hours. And I'm like, what am I doing wrong here?

And then to come across this. And to hear, oh no, prayer always presupposes effort, you're not doing something wrong if sometimes it's hard. And I just, but it's a gift of grace, but it's also a determined response on our part. And it's, again, the Battle of Prayer is one of my favorite sections

because then where you invited to not back away from that, but to realize that even Jesus reveals to us that prayer is a battle, which I'm so grateful for. I appreciate that. That's in the catacism. So for all the places, we might feel ashamed that we're struggling, or maybe we don't want to pray, or maybe it's dry, or maybe it's just wonderful for all those places, the catacas are like, well, here you go. Here's the human heart, and that's okay. We can understand that. And we're in that we're going to keep going. Yeah. That's not a bad. And that's okay. We can understand that. And that we're going to keep going.

Yeah. It's not a bad thing. I think we have sometimes a misunderstanding. Like, if it's hard, that means I'm doing something wrong. And not necessarily. I mean, love is different. Like we said, love is very purifying. And it's just calling us a deeper excellence and deeper union.

And I appreciate that a lot. Because that is people get to a plateau or they get to a major struggle or they find a block in their heart or something. And then it's like, I don't want to do that anymore. I tried that, didn't really work for me. And the Lord is like, no, you keep going. You keep seeking. Yeah, it's just wonderful. And the reality, of course, is that if we don't go through those times of dryness, and

this section talks about distraction and dryness and all these different battles we experience, if we don't experience that dryness or distraction, our heart can't grow. Amen. Like that, my love remains selfish. And God doesn't want us, he wants us to have, you know, like the wrench, a heart that grows. Like, I love it, yes.

It's too big and not too small. And if I'm just loving the gifts of prayer, the consolations of prayer, then I'm just loving myself. Oh, that's a good word. But if God teaches me, brings me through these distractions and through this dryness to continue to choose him in the midst of desolation.

Yes. And he's doing something remarkable in our hearts that I would imagine he couldn't do without. Because we're free. And so I'll keep loving myself as long as I can until I can't anymore, and we'll choose God as to grow my heart. Oh, yes.

And thank God for that. Like that couple, the marriage, the example that you gave, that's exactly the place of the struggles, of the trials. I wanted it to get difficult. Do we love God for what He gives us? Do we love the gifts or do we love the giver? And that's one thing to receive the gifts and be an on gratitude to that. And receive all that God gives us and in that, not mistake the gifts for the giver

because the giver is most important. Yeah, because that would be, that would be making an idol out of the gifts. Yeah, he's like a genie, like a coming guy. Right. God can't be manipulated like that and nobody likes to be treated like, I mean but it's amazing how we can kind of fall into that mentality too. Like, I did the thing. Like I prayed that in Novina,

or I God, give me what I want. And the Lord's like, I have so much more for you. Well, can you say something about that? How sometimes our prayer can devolve into manipulation or an attempt to manipulate God? If I do it like this, then. I think sometimes our prayer can be superstitious of, I did that, and it's more of a contractual exchange of like, I did that thing. And some of this, it comes out of deep suffering, like

my child's dying and I'll do the nilini to sing whatever you tell me. But the Lord always brings us back to the heart. And I think we have to be very, I just think we have to be very careful. We always have to do about the images we have of God. So that means I did this, he should give me what I want. Or because we're so little, we don't always know what we need. So I think that's the continual. And I love the Psalms and I love the cry of Jesus. It's the real part of the real heart of Lord. Maybe that is like Lord I did the thing. I went to Mass. I prayed the rosary. I didn't you know live with my wife from before I got married. I did all that thing and we're still in fertile. So like what's you know and you can just feel like the

oh like the human heart there in crisis like I I want to draw near to you. I love you. I'm not holding out. I just those are the tender places and I think that's that's the prayer right that and that's who that's the tender stuff right of but that's the prayer, right? That's whoo, that's the tender stuff, right? But those are the real parts of the human heart that the Lord reveals himself in, and that he's not holding out. Jesus is not holding out on us. Well, as you mentioned, it reveals the image of God we have. Yes. And so actually paragraph 2735, and following, asked the question, it says,

why do we complain of not being heard? And then the response is I think a really bold and I wanna say something about this, it says in the first place, we ought to be astonished by this fact. When we praise God, we give him thanks for his benefits in general. We're not particularly concerned

whether or not our prayer is acceptable to him. And we're not very highly distressed to our students. They're like, yeah, because when you think of it, you're like, oh, by the way, thanks God, you know, but if I need something, man, I'm kneeling down. The hands are folded just the right way. I'm saying exactly the words because there's something of this really, really matters. But wait, when I'm giving God praise or thanks, do I care that he receives it? I mean, it doesn't even matter to me that he receives it. So it goes on to say, he goes, on the other hand,

we demand to see the results of our petitions. What is the image of God? Is what you said? What is the image of God that motivates our prayer? Is he an instrument to be used or is he the father of our Lord Jesus Christ? And that's why Jesus reveals right. He's always the same.

Like you said. Yeah, oh, yeah. Isn't that convicting? Like for all of myself, I'm like, Oh's always the same. Like you said. Yeah, oh, yeah. Isn't that convicting? Like for all of myself, I'm like, oh, Jesus, yeah. And I love it. The thing with me is I need to hear this in a time of peace so that I don't forget it in the time of distress. If I were to hear this in a time of distress,

I would think that someone was making fun of me. Oh, that's a good point, yeah. And so that's, I think it's important for us, especially those who are listening because, like, oh, in the first, we should be astonished by this fact that you're suffering right now. Like, no, no, that's not the issue. I need to hear this in a time where I remember who God is because if I was in a place of just desperation, this would seem like I was being dismissed.

But that's not what I think that's not the heart. The heart is just calling us back to remember, what is your image? Is your image God is the ATM, or he's the emergency paramedic or the emergency psychologist, whoever, or is he our father who actually loves us? Amen. The guy who wrote this, so the guy, whatever, apparently the chief author of this pillar

of the cataclysm. Do you know that story? Tell me. He wrote this fourth pillar in Beirut. He's a priest who wrote this fourth pillar in Beirut. He's a priest who wrote this fourth pillar in Beirut while the bombs were raining on his home. And he was in the basement with the typewriter and like a candle. And he was writing this section on prayer while his life was in danger for days and weeks on end. And it's in that. It's kind of like Psalm 3 at this Psalm of David. It's a Psalm of trust.

I like the subtitle of Psalm 3 is a Psalm of David, a Psalm of trust, when he was fleeing for his life from epsilon. And so you hear that and you realize, oh, wait, this is not David on his throne. Like life is good and I trust God. This is David who everything's fallen around him and his own child is trying to kill him and he is on his flame for his life.

And he's saying, trust God. And so similarly, here is this priest who, in the next moment, a bomb could land right on top of his house. And he's saying, this is my identity. This is the most important thing any vesca do which is develop this relationship with our Lord we can trust him. Amen.

So sister, as we're coming to a close, there's more to we can talk about. We can talk about the fact that there's the Lord's Prayer is the section two of the last piece of this. Fourth pillar is on the Lord's Prayer, kind of an explication of all the things that Jesus is teaching us to pray. But if there's any takeaways as we conclude today

that you just want the people who are listening and are gonna just play for the next however many days, what is something that you hope they get in these next 30, 40 days? I guess my heart for the people on this journey with us would be to come to a deeper understanding in their heart of how deeply we are loved. How deeply deeply we are loved and how of infinite value that the Lord perceives us and receives us in that we're not alone. We're not alone. And this is not some joke or cosmic kind of gain God's playing with us that he really, just the deep part of Jesus that he takes on every single one

of our sufferings, all of our joys, and he unites them to himself, and that he gives us back himself in return. I mean, who loves like that? I just, yeah, I'm just continually just pierced by the love of Jesus. And my heart is that we come not into a formulaic kind of, you know, reiteration of some sort of prayer, but each one of us in our own way comes into a deeper intimacy with Jesus.

Because that's the truth and that's the eternal truth and that's what we're going to spend heaven with is the one who loves us forever for eternity. So I guess that would be me a real heartfelt encounter as they go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you say in that, because one of the things that I've been convicted of or I've been sitting with and maybe trying to say is the more and more Christians or Catholics I talk with, they've heard their entire lives that God loves them, but I think most Catholics, we don't believe God loves us, we believe God tolerates us. It's true, Vendale. And so then, and what you're saying is hope not just ending with these next 30 to 40 days, but beginning with these 30 to 40 days of knowing the unstoppable love of God

for them. And just even a willingness to give God permission to love you. Yes. Would be the prayer. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. I am so grateful. And hopefully, I hope that this has been a much blessing for those who have been listening to this. And that has been for me because I'm so grateful, assisted to be with you, and just be able to just even kind of touch the service. We just scraped the service of this fourth pillar, but I'm so grateful for you. And so grateful for every person who has been joining us for these 328 days. Please know that I am praying for you.

Please pray for me. My name is Father Mike. I am pranked for you. Please pray for me. My name is Father Mike. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow. God bless.