The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz) - Day 36: The Nature of the Trinity (2025)

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Together, with Fr. Mike, we continue our exploration of the Church’s teachings on the nature of the Holy Trinity. We examine three main ideas. The first is the unity of the Trinity, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one God. The next is the Divine Persons as distinct from one another: one God, three distinct persons. As Fr. Mike states, “The Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son, and the Holy Spirit is not either.” Finally, Fr. Mike discusses the relation between each person of the Holy Trinity. Today’s readings are Catechism paragraphs 253-256. This episode has been found to be in conformity with the Catechism by the Institute on the Catechism, under the Subcommittee on the Catechism, USCCB. For the complete reading plan, visit ascensionpress.com/ciy Please note: The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children - parental discretion is advised.

Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz and you're listening to the Catechism in a Year podcast, where we encounter God's plan of sheer goodness for us, revealed in scripture and passed down through the tradition of the Catholic faith. The Catechism in a Year is brought to you by Ascension. In 365 days, we'll read through the Catechism of the Catholic Church, discovering our identity in God's family as we journey together toward our heavenly home. It is day 36 and we're reading paragraphs 253 to 256. That is four short paragraphs, kind of like yesterday, but they are dense paragraphs.

A few reminders before we get started. I'm using the Ascension edition of the Catechism, which includes the Foundations of Faith approach, but you can follow along in any recent version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That would be great. Also, if you want to download your own Catechism in your reading plan, just visit ascensionpress.com slash C I Y. And lastly, also one of the more thing you can click, follow or subscribe in your podcast app for daily notifications.

I know I just also want to thank you for all those who have supported the production of this podcast with your prayers and your financial gifts. Literally could not do it without your prayers, without your support financially, without your prayers spiritually. It's super helpful. Sorry, when I say helpful, that sounds optional. Nope, it is necessary. So thank you so much.

Today, here we are, day 36, paragraphs 253 to 256. We're talking about the dogma of the Holy Trinity. And so this is awesome. So we started yesterday a subsection, right, called the Holy Trinity in the teaching of the faith and we talked about the formation of the Trinitarian dogma how yes it is revealed the Trinity right is revealed to us in scripture that gets revealed that God is Father, God is Son,

God is Holy Spirit and then it begins to be articulated in a I don't want to say more nuanced way but in a way that we are trying to understand How is it that God is one is a unity but also is triune is a Trinity So we talked about how the church has had started to use certain terms that were received from philosophy terms like substance person hypostasis relation those kinds of terms and now we we're gonna talk about this. We're gonna use those terms today as we dive into the dogma of the Holy Trinity. And there are a couple kind of key points. In fact, I'm gonna say there are three key points

and they are in paragraphs 253, 254, and 255. The last paragraph, 256, is an extended quote by St. Gregory of Nazianzus, whatever you want to say it. But here are the three points. First, the Trinity is one. So we're gonna talk about the unity of the Trinity, that how God is still one. Remember, in substance, in essence, only one.

Also, 254, second point, the divine persons are really distinct from one another, meaning that it's not as if, this is one of the, kind of, I guess you say heresy that had popped up, is well not as if this is one of the kind of I guess you say heresy that had popped up is well maybe if if God is one remember that first point the Trinity is one if God is one then maybe the God of the Old Testament is the father that's like the the way God expressed himself as father and then in the New Testament the same God same person even just kind of expressed himself as son and then in the age of the church God expresses himself in terms of Holy Spirit

Like as if these are modalities or like masks that that God puts on This is one of those times where you realize that sometimes the analogies that we use to try to explain the Trinity They fall very very short Because we have to recognize that the divine persons are really distinct from one another It's not the same God with three different masks or three different modes of being. This is one God with three distinct persons and that's just it's pretty remarkable but also is a distinction that needs to be made. I mean you might think why it's all the same. Well it's not really all the same but I get I understand the uh keep it simple for me father. I get that the third point in 255 is the divine persons are relative to one another

So keep these three points in mind the trinity is one Yep, we got that second point the divine persons are really distinct from one another The father is not the son son is not the father. Holy spirit is neither of them at the same time The divine persons are relative to one another. So another way to say it is it's in 255 it says, because it does not divide the divine unity the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationship which relate them to one another. And why is the Father the Father? Because he is relative to the Son. Why is the Son the Father? Because he is relative to the Son.

Why is the Son the Son? Because he's relative to the Father, if that makes any sense whatsoever. Hopefully it does, because we're trying to establish as deeply as we possibly can, okay, who is God? What is God? One, okay, God at unity, but also God is a trinity of persons. And so he's relative in himself and and that's remember those terms we used yesterday that God or the day before yesterday the God in himself is Trinity God in himself is unity and so hopefully this makes sense as we continue to dive deeply the last paragraph we're gonna look at today 256 is this beautiful really just beautiful explanation explanation by Saint Gregory of Nazianzus, who just says,

okay, I know, I mean, he's not saying this, I'm paraphrasing, I know that this can be very confusing. I know that it's hard to hold all these things in your mind at once. We talked about that with St. Augustine yesterday. And yet, we get to be captured and captivated by this God. We get to be captured and captivated by the God. We get to be captured and captivated by the very love of God, God who is love.

That's the depth of whom we are plunging into today as we listen to these next four paragraphs, Gattacism 253 to 256. Let's say a prayer before we get started. Father in heaven, we praise you and glorify you. We know that you revealed yourself through the Son. You continue to reveal yourself and come to us in the power of the Holy Spirit. You are one God and three divine persons and we just ask that you please not only help us to see your work in this world and experience

your grace in this world, but also help us to understand who you are in yourself. Not just in your works, understand who you are in yourself, not just in your works, but who you are in yourself. And let this time that we listen to these four paragraphs in the Catechism, let them just open our minds and open our hearts that since we know you better, we can love you better. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as I said, it's day 36. We're reading paragraphs 253 to 256. The dogma of the Holy Trinity. The Trinity is one. We do not confess three gods, but one God in three persons. The Consubstantial Trinity. The Divine Persons do not share the one Divinity among themselves, but each of them is God whole and entire. As the Eleventh Council of Toledo said,

The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, that is, by nature one God. In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council in the year 1215, each of the persons is that supreme reality viz. the divine substance, essence or nature. The divine persons are really distinct from one another. As Fides de Masi stated, God is one, but not solitary. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another. As the 11th Council of Toledo stated, He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the

Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son. They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin. As the Fourth Lateran Council stated, it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds. The divine unity is triune. The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which

relate them to one another. As the 11th Council of Toledo stated, In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance. Indeed, everything in them is one where there is no opposition of relationship. Because of that unity, the Father is holy in the Son and holy in the Holy Spirit. The Son is holy in the Father and holy in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is holy in the Father and holy in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is holy in the Father and holy in the Son.

Saint Gregory of Nazianzus, also called the Theologian, entrusts this summary of Trinitarian faith to the Catechumens of Constantinople, saying, Above all, guard for me this great deposit of faith for which I live and fight, which I want to take with me as a companion and which makes me bear all evils and despise all pleasures, I mean, the profession of faith in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I entrust it to you today. By it I am soon going to plunge you into water and raise you up from it. I give it to you as the companion and patron of your whole life. I give you but one divinity and power, existing one in three and containing the three in a

distinct way. Divinity without disparity of substance or nature, without superior degree that raises up or inferior degree that casts down. The infinite, conaturality of three infinites. Each person, considered in himself is entirely God. The three considered together. I have not even begun to think of unity when the trinity bathes me in its splendor. I have not even begun to think of the trinity when unity grasps me.

Okay, so we have today. I said it was going to be dense and and I was you know, I'm not lying It is so maybe remember remember those three points first the Trinity is one second The divine persons are really distinct from one another and third the divine persons are relative to one another And so let's go back over this once again The Trinity is one it might you might think that this is redundant. To keep going back to, okay, this is essence. God's essence, his substance, his nature is one. He is one divine being. It could be annoying you to go back and say, I know, I got it, move on. So, I get it. But we have to establish this and never ever forget that when we start talking about Father, Son and Holy Spirit, we are not talking about three gods. This is absolutely that's that's you know, completely against what God has revealed

That is ultimately called heresy. And so God is one Trinity is one the next part is so important for us that the divine persons are really distinct from one another and Again, because there's heresies, speaking of heresies, that have come up. So the first few sentences of that paragraph first makes the makes the statement we just said the divine persons are really distinct from one another. Great. And then the council or Fides Damacy is quoted and it says God is one but not solitary. Yep, completely makes sense. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being. Again, when you say modalities, what that means is like modes of being. Like again, that here is one God, right? We know one God and he sometimes reveals

himself as Father, sometimes reveals as Son, sometimes reveals as Holy Spirit, just different modes that he expresses himself in. So the Father is not the son, the son is not the father, the father is not the Holy Spirit, the son is not the Holy Spirit. And that sense of being able to recognize that truth is so very, very important for all of us. Why is that important? Because if these were simply modalities,

if there was simply ways that the one God expressed himself, then he would still be monolithic, right? He would still, he could never be a trinity of persons. And the very deepest identity of God would not be love, because it would simply be one monolithic God expressing himself in three different modes. But we know that God truly has revealed that he is love, that the depth of his identity is that he is love, that the depth of his identity is that he is love. That's only possible if God is three distinct persons

and yet one divine being. And so it's not just three different ways of expressing his existence or expressing his action in the world, but three distinct persons. In fact, the last quote in that paragraph, 254, says it's actually from the fourth Lateran and counsel once again in the 13th century It is the father who generates the son who is begotten and the Holy Spirit who proceeds now that is very important But what our minds can do sometimes is well if the father generates the son is begotten and the Holy Spirit proceeds

That means the father's number one. The son is number two and and the Holy Spirit's number three, in order of importance, right? That's what we can start to think. If the Father generates, the Holy Spirit, the Son is begotten, the Holy Spirit proceeds, then it's like, okay, that makes sense. If you wanna rank the persons of the Trinity, well, the Father is superior, the Son is less, and the Holy Spirit is even less.

That's why we're saying it's so important that all of us hold our horses when we start to think that. Go back to what Saint Gregory of Nazianzus said, he said, there's divinity without disparity of substance or nature and he says this very very clearly, without superior degree that raises up or inferior degree that casts down the infinite conaturality of three infinites and that is So important for us each person considered in himself is entirely God entirely God So the father is not more God than the son or the Holy Spirit

even though the father is the one who generates and the son is the one who is Begotten and the Holy Spirit is the one who proceeds, it's not actually not even order of importance and it's not in order of time because this is from all eternity. From all eternity God has existed, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It wasn't as at one point the Father existed

and then he generated the Son and then the Holy Spirit proceeded after that. The time, nope, that's not one of the things we recognize from all eternity God has always been and will always be Father Son and Holy Spirit eternally generating eternally begotten eternally proceeding now if that's kind of a mind-bender that is okay Completely remember st. Augustine yesterday But eternally begotten eternally begetting and eternally proceeding that's very very important finally almost finally the third point remember the first point we talked about many times the

trinity is one second point we've been talking about the divine persons are really distinct from one another the third point is the divine persons are relative to one another now this might have been a confusing quote and that quote was from the Council of Florence because it uses the term holy, but it's W-H-O-L-L-Y meaning fully, right? Whole, holy, but we also use this word holy, H-O-L-Y for Holy Spirit.

So I'm gonna kind of paraphrase a little bit, but that Council of Florence had said, because of that unity, remember remember the whole here's the Trinity it's a unity because of that unity the father is holy in the Sun or entirely in the Sun and Entirely in the Holy Spirit the Sun is entirely in the father and entirely in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is entirely in the father and Entirely in the Sun. So that's what that term Holy and you might have missed it because like Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy so so what we're saying is is

Okay, listen to this now the Father is entirely in the Son and in the Holy Spirit The Son is entirely in the Father and in the Holy Spirit The Holy Spirit is entirely in the Father and entirely in the Son. This is an incredible, incredible mystery. Without inner mixture, without the Son also being the Father, no, no, they're related to each other. Without the Holy Spirit also being the Son, like no, they're distinct from each other and yet wholly in each other as well, which is again a great mystery. But it's this mystery that St. Gregory of Nazianzus highlights and he says, we already talked about this, each person considered in

himself is entirely God. The three considered together, I have not even begun to think of unity when the Trinity bathes me in its splendor. I have not even begun to think of the Trinity when unity grasps me And that's where we're gonna land today Because again, we cannot comprehend we cannot apprehend we cannot grasp on to the Trinity But the Trinity God does grasp us We we can't even begin to plunge the depths of the mystery of who God is in himself And yet God comes to us. He enters into our world. He enters into our lives and our reality. And so here we are today, just saying,

God, please reveal yourself to me even more. And all that is not revealed to me. Let that take possession of me. Take hold of me. Grasp onto me and never let go. We just pray for that. I know that's a challenge, but here we are on day 36, just trucking away. And so please know that I am praying for you.

Please pray for me. My name is father Mike. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow. God bless.