The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source - State of the "log" 2023 (Interview)

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

Our 6th annual year-end wrap-up episode! This time we're featuring 12 (yes, 12!) listener voice mails, our favorite episodes of the year & some insanely cool Breakmaster Cylinder beats made just for this occasion. Thanks for listening! 💚

Oh yes, it's late December, that classic changelog theme song is bumpin', and it is time for our sixth annual State of the Log episode episode if this is your first time with us welcome to the changelog the software world's best weekly news brief deep technical interviews and talk show that's like hanging out in the hallway track of your favorite conference on repeat big thanks to our partners for helping us bring you awesome developer pods all year long. Fassy.com, fly.io, and typesense.org. Let's do it. We are here. It is time once again already for State of the Log, our sixth annual tradition of looking back at the year and reminiscing on the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Most of the good, right? No ugly? Not much ugly. Yeah, pretty much the good. We avoid the bad and the ugly as much as we can. No uglies. No ugl Not much ugly. Yeah, pretty much the good. We avoid the bad and the ugly as much as we can. No uglies. No uglies, please. So this has become... Six years though, Jared.

Kind of a cool thing, yeah. I mean, when we started State of the Log, what were we thinking? Were we thinking this would be six years in the making? I can't think back that far. Well, we're 15 deep this year. This is our 15th year of doing anything. You haven't been here for all 15 years, but it has been 15 years years i think you've been here for at least a decade of them right hasn't been 10 or 11 of those yeah this is a decade for you this year uh 2013 is when i got involved so yes yeah a decade so you're here for 10 of the 15 we've been doing this for six of the 10 you've been a part of it so it's like i would say like uh realistically you know it's the because like this there's layers to this show over the years right it hasn't been

the same show for all those 15 years we've been a thing and doing this thing since then but it's been variations over the years and i think that i don't know what we were thinking to make it this long. Anyways, I mean, how long do you do something like this, I suppose? But I tell you what probably gets you and probably gets me is when we go out into the world

and we meet the people and we get voicemails that we're going to share here on this podcast and they just remind you why you keep showing up and why you keep doing what you do. Yeah, it's a strange feeling to send an MP3 into the world and just know, I guess, you. Yes. Why you keep showing up and why you keep doing what you do. Yeah, it's a strange feeling to

send an mp3 into the world and just know, I guess, by intellectual assent and the ability to count server requests to an mp3 file. We know that people's phones and computers are downloading these things, but you don't really think that people are listening until you hear a voice or see a face and get an email and that's always really cool so this has become a bit of a tradition of ours i think i remember the very first state of the log it was really just us two trying to find out if the two of us could just do a show together just the two of us because we were really oh yeah concerned that you and i just couldn't carry a whole episode we We always had to have a guest.

Right. So dependent. And they were like, let's just hit record and start talking and see if we can do a show. And I think that was our first day of the log. I'm actually afraid to go back to listen to that now, but that's how I'm always in with past content created. Every once in a while you go back and you're like, hmm, not bad. But other times you go back and you're like, oh, ugly. Like episode one that somebody uncovered recently of this podcast by going somehow through their podcast client and finding it.

I was like, oh, yeah, I can't listen to that. The old days of podcasts. Well, it's a really easy URL hack because we love good URLs around here. changelog.fm slash one. I mean, it's hard to hide it, right? You want to hear our second episode ever? Slash two. And so on and so forth.

So this episode is going to be cool. In 2021, actually, it came by way of JS Party. I think we did JS Party's 200th episode, Best of the Fest. And I asked to have some people call in and leave us voicemails or text messages. And we had a good response. It was just really cool hearing from listeners on that show. And so we pulled that over shortly thereafter, like a month later, like let's do that for State of the Log. And we got a few in our first year. I think there was four listener call-ins on State of the Log 21, but enough to make a cool thing out of it. And

so we did it again last year. I think we got eight call-ins last year. And we're back with some more. We got 11. Jared here in post. Turns out we ended up with 12 submissions. One came in after the bell rang. You'll hear that one at the end. So we're trending upward on listener voicemails, which means I guess we're doing something right. Our listeners are becoming more comfortable and bold interacting with us, which is super cool. And we always offer a little bit of a carrot on a stick, which is a free t-shirt. Many of our listeners, especially our plus plus members already have our swag, but nonetheless, that usually helps out this year. It's even specialer. So thanks to a great idea coming out of our community mary hightower had a great idea in our community slack when i posted the request

for listener voicemails in our slack by the way changelog.com slash community totally free come hang out with 7 000 other smart good-looking curious techn technologists who are nice to each other and generally quiet, which is nice. When I put the call out in that Slack for people to leave us voicemails, Ricky De La Viega said, wait, the entire episode isn't just going to be soundbites from the Breakmaster Cylinder episode?

Heckens yeah, I said to myself. So Ricky really enjoyed that BMmc episode and i said was it that good and then breakmaster chimed in threw my fist in the air said oh it was that good and then mary hightower brilliantly says what if breakmaster cylinder drops a beat for each listener voicemail to which bmc said oh cool i got beats got beats. I like making music. So, of course. So BMC got busy. We sent over these voicemails. And I think you're going to like this. Better than a t-shirt.

You know, having your own voice remixed into your own custom beat. So we are going to play some voicemails. We're going to play some remixes. We hope you enjoy them as we go. Anything to add, Adam, before we pop into the first listener call i would just say i love the serendipitous nature i suppose of all that you just you know recanted about you know it's i think it's really interesting that um i'll say that that's one of my favorites okay i want to jump the gun a little bit and that that bmc episode on Friends is in my list

of favorites. What a treat, really. What a treat. I love working with Rapemaster on all things, of course, but then Mary and others just hopping in and saying, what about these voicemails to beats? I think that's super cool. I just love just the naturalness, I suppose.

Everybody's feeling what we're feeling with these beats. They know, they're good. Yeah, totally. We'll hear about some of that on the calls. I think that's the cool thing about having a community and not simply a podcast is that it's collaborative and people can get involved and make the shows better than they would be otherwise.

This is why for years and years we've taken listener requests and really do do a lot of episodes just because somebody asked us to and we do we do also have to think it's you know kind of a good idea so there's a lot of requests that don't go fulfilled but i was looking at our request log just the other day just on change log interviews so this forget all our other shows who also take requests just on changelog interviews and we've done 24 episodes at least that we've even given the credit to sometimes you just get an idea and it's not coming through that specific web form but when we use it for years we did them on github as well so this is like since we've had the official forum 24

episodes that were like literally just because somebody asked. And I love that because as I always say, at least one person likes it. Hopefully everybody else does too. But that's just the beauty of a community where you can create stuff that I would never would have thought of. You never would have thought of it. Somebody else thought of it was a great idea, was an excellent guest and something cool can come out of it.

So hopefully this episode is even better than it would have been. I'm sure it's going to be yeah thanks to mary thanks to ricky thanks to bmc all right let's kick into it here is our first listener call from arthur maldison a changelog crew huge fan been listening since the way in the london days if you can think back that far. Anyway, I just wanted to send in a recording for the sixth annual State of the Log episode. For some reason, all of my favorites seem to be clustered around this summer. I guess you all put out some really epic episodes this summer. I have to say that I really enjoyed the episode, Change Lincoln for Number 11 with Justin Searles and a bearer's generation of programmers. It really struck a chord with me as I've really been feeling the same recently and wondering, is it just

me getting old and kind of that, oh, bark in my day, we walked to school in the snow uphill both ways kind of person or whether it was something else. And I thought it was really great to hear from that newer generation of developers that there's still that energy. I, of course, see it in my day to day as well. I guess just a big market now that there is room for lots of different levels of passion, but hopefully we can inspire a new generation one engineer at a time.

The other big one I really enjoyed as a huge proponent of developer experience and recently having a chance to kind of dig into the topic more at GitHub Universe as a presenter. I absolutely loved the DX on DX change log interview episode 5.1. I'm also a listener of the Engineering Enablement podcast and find Adi Noda's insights really great. I thought that the way that you all went in-depth in that interview and got into the science of survey design. I mean, just really dug into the details with Adi and I really enjoyed that. I think it took a lens having listened to most of the Engineering Enablement Podcast. I thought you really got to the core value propositions of the DX company and then then just like, what are they looking at? And how do

they gauge developer sentiment? And it made me a bit depressed about survey design and realizing, you know, there really is kind of a science to it. I guess that's why people talk about, if you want to get great at writing documentation, hire technical authors, and also look at hiring archivists and librarians to help organize that information. I guess doing surveys well is kind of like that too. And then it's not really a 2023 reflection, but an episode that I consistently message to folks, especially because of kind of where I am in my career today is the leading leaders who lead engineers. I think that that episode is so impactful on unpacking the difference between mentoring, coaching, sponsorship, just an epic interview with Laura Hogan,

super bright engineering manager. And I think I send that around maybe once a month to different people. So anyway, thanks again. You all are doing amazing work, heroes work really. And I always look forward to new change look episodes. So thank you so much. Super cool, Arthur. So the win Netherland days.

Wow, bro. That's going back. That's going back. Like episode one kind of stuff. I can remember those days, but just barely, really. Like anything, when you look back, you always look back fondly, right? There was the fond moments of those days. You never look back thinking, oh, man, that sucked.

No matter how bad or good it was, really. I guess if it was the worst thing ever, then you maybe think back negatively. Man, so good stuff in there. So I mentioned in the pre-call some notes about Founders Talk, and here we are, first caller in is talking about- Founders Talk. The Founders Talk crossover. And I liked-

DX on DX was a Founders Talk one-on-one with you and Abinoda. That's right, yeah. And I think we had a break for some reason in the schedule and I had just recorded it. And I was like, if we need a filler, I can cross this over, I think is what it was. This would apply to both audiences equally as good. Not as if Founders Talk is in some sort of way right filler or anything. But yeah, I just treated that call like, what is, I was even curious like what does dx even do like how are you just a survey company basically the business so dx not the acronym which stands for developer experience but there's also dx the company which we had trouble defining in the call too yeah dx versus dx and that's why i was like dx on dx because it was dx the company on developer experience and i was just like abby how in the world did you build a company out of like just throwing out surveys basically it's like man there's a science to it i'm paraphrasing the whole episode of course but yeah that was the fun part like digging into the science

digging into the there's people with phds in this stuff you know intense intense stuff how do you make developers productive let's say adam you have developers how do you make them productive yeah there's kind of two ways you can go about it there's like the way where you kind of like give them really tough deadlines crack the whip tell them to type faster work longer work harder move faster right that's one approach sure and and that's probably you know you could probably do a little bit of that yeah yeah the finishing returns temporary increases long term no gains, yes. Exactly. Then there's another approach, which is you say, okay, I'm paying these people a lot of money. They're smart.

They're really smart people. And they really love what they do. They really care about the work. They could work anywhere. They decided to work here. How can we help them be productive? What can we do to create an environment where they can do move as quickly as possible, create the most beautiful products? How can we do that? And if

you thought about that question, like how do we enable that maximum reaching maximum potential, so to speak, you would start thinking about a number of things. You would think, okay, how can I get people really excited and motivated to actually work? Like, I'm not going to tell people to work 18 hours a day, but what if you could just get them so excited and motivated that they did work 18 hours a day? I mean, all developers have put in really fun 18-hour days. I do all the time.

It's not because someone's telling me I have to. It's usually because I'm sucked into a problem, like the one we're talking about here. You would also think about, all right, where are they wasting time? Like, where is time just getting lost because they have stupid tools, like stupid processes? We're not even giving them clear instructions on what the business needs. You know, where are they maybe kind of rearing away from the team because they're something stressing them out, or there's a conflict, or just the way of working is causing friction. So these things,

all these things, these social factors, these technical factors, this is what makes up the developer experience. And so there's various kind of academic definitions of developer experience. We provide one in this paper and another in a previous paper we've written. So yeah, that's a great one. That was definitely over the summer. We had Justin Searles and Landon Gray on, Chainsaw Gun Friends and Aberrant Generation of Programmers. That was certainly, I think, our most downloaded episode.

I actually didn't do as much popularity stuff because we have so many listener calls and we have our own favorites as well. I'm not sure we're going to get to that. But just in terms of friends and maybe everything, that was just an aberrant episode, I told Justin, because he was on It Dependencies recently with me and he was apologizing that I didn't do the same numbers

because all of our numbers are public if you want to go find out our downloads. And so Justin's the kind of guy who's going to look at that kind of stuff and he's like, sorry, I didn't do as well as last time. I'm like, no, your episode last time was just an outlier. We don't expect that. So that's kind of funny. But yeah, lots of people engaged with that episode

because it's somewhat controversial. It's also kind of gray. I mean, it's not like X's and O's. There's a lot of feelings involved. There's a lot of generalization, stereotypes, and trying to cut through that. Just a really fascinating discussion, I think. For sure. And a blog post that already had gone viral, so it made sense that people were going to listen to the conversation as well. I certainly enjoyed his perspective and Landon's perspective,

even though we really were putting him on the spot and I felt bad at times making him represent younger people writ large. I'm glad you mentioned that because I feel like to just set some stage here, Jared and I don't do pre-calls for these podcasts. We really go in on purpose blind, right? Because if you've rehearsed it, it's kind of boring as a host, right? We find if you have a pre-call with a guest, you'll end up doing the interview in the pre-call.

And it kind of just like, well, we should be recording this. This is sadness. The best part was actually the pre-call, you know? Right. So I don't do it. All the live reaction. I mean, that's what you want anyways, is the honest, authentic reaction to whatever the subject matter is.

And so to set some stage a little bit and not to go on too long, but we hadn't met Landon, of course, right? We knew Justin from before, so we kind of knew his position and we have some experience with Justin and his writing and who he is and how he represents himself. And we assumed some things about Landon and we didn't know all of his history. So we had to learn about him through the podcast. And obviously, as polite human beings, we didn't want to assume certain things just because of his age either. And so we had to learn a lot about his position above the subject, like how it is as the old, crudgy person versus the new person, and the troubles it is to come up as a junior to senior,

or just somebody who's fresh in the game of software development. So that's challenging, I would say, to be in. That's a position that's challenging to be in. Like not knowing and podcasting about it. And it's listened to 45,000 times, at least based upon what our stats say, plus probably some in Spotify, some in Apple that we can't track that's outside that

number but yeah i mean a lot of pressure on a young guy yeah i thought he did a really good job he definitely settled down as it went on as people tend to do one of the things that we lament about a lot around these parts is that the second half of our shows is often better than the first half and it's just the way humans work even even with people that we know sometimes it's just you settle down eventually and it just starts to get in a groove and so that definitely happened on that episode if you go back to the second half there's some really good stuff in there just fascinating so listen the first half too it's good but i'm always like gosh could we just do a tarantino and put the second half in the beginning and then be like you know some sort

of weird sound and go back in time and get the first half if you want it. But, all right, well, the reason why I put Arthur's first, because this is very much. I want to mention one thing before we go on. You're going to love this. Okay. This is a nugget, okay? Okay.

The best part of the Abinoda episode was, and going back to favorites, was Standard Out. Yes. Abinoda's brother is Standard Out. You knew this. I mean, I don't think you knew this until I told you that. I do know this. This was a plus plus bonus.

Yes. I knew this once you told me. I knew that his brother was in tech. Right. Because he told me the story. So this is Standard Out the rapper. We've done a special on him. One of my favorite episodes of all time.

Just really cool. Guy raps about programming. I mean, talk about one of a kind well and yeah really well and in that interview i found out that his brother was the reason he got into rapping online because he wanted a viral programmer rap for a startup he was doing that's right well i never knew who his brother was and then later on panda yeah the company that he started that github found that the github acquired that he then left GitHub to then found DX. Exactly.

You know what I mean? Like, I love, that's what I just love about, that's why we stay in the game, Jared. These are the reasons why we stay in the game, man. So much talent in that family. Right? Yeah. Pretty cool. So I want to mention that.

So if you're a Plus Plus subscriber, go back to episode 551 if you haven't already and listen to the little special at the end there that's just for plus plus subscribers by the way it is better changelog.com slash plus plus it is all right arthur so here is your personal as a thank you from us and bmc and this is why you went first because this is really kind of an introductory beat here we go bmc remix of arthur's message and in any way i present the sixth annual state of the log lots of passion core values leading leaders consistently amazing work that you can inspire a new generation. That really

struck a chord with me. The ending is the best. Oh my gosh. I'm not sure how I should say awesome work to BMC or Arthur. I'm not really, I mean both I guess, right?

That's the beauty of a collab, man. Equ better together better together right all right let's get the next one here comes Hal of course we always ask for pronunciation help and Hal says it's Hal like Hal 9000 thanks Hal hey Adam and Jared thanks for another year of excellent podcasts when I thought back over the year one episode episode immediately stood out. 542 mainframes are still a big thing. I think part of what made this episode special was that it didn't really seem that interesting based on the subject, but it turned out to be fantastic. Your guest Cameron Say was a really passionate, enthusiastic and engaging speaker, such a good advocate for this subject another episode with a similarly passionate guest was 545 rebuilding devops from the ground up with adam

jacob one of the things i really like about the changelog is that it's a little more self-reflective than most podcasts i enjoy hearing details here and there about how you're trying new things or explaining your creative process like the pain of not finding a clever episode title. So I enjoyed hearing about the musical details behind the scenes in your episode with Breakmaster Cylinder. I can't believe I didn't understand or notice the meaning of his name before this episode. Finally, there are lots of other episodes

I could recommend, but I think I'll call out the news episodes. It's always nice to have a bite-sized roundup of this week's highlights pop up in my feed. Best of luck for 2024. Nailed it. Pretty good, Hal. Pretty good. You're a while we show up, Hal. Gosh. Well, definitely had Cameron say in my list of favorites. Oh man. Did it make your list, Adam? You know what? I'm glad. So we do so many, we forget which year they're in. And so it did not make my list, but it's now going to my list because I agree.

And I'm so sad we didn't get to see Cameron when we were at All Things Open. Like he was there. He lives, I guess, in the area and we just couldn't meet up. But Cameron was, wasn't this a recommendation too? This was a recommend for the previous year of All Things Open, right? Yes. At All Things Open 2022, a woman walked up to me and said, do you ever talk about mainframes on your podcast? And I said, no, we do not.

And she said, you have to. And I said, oh, I do. And she was very emphatic. Yes, you have to. I said, okay, we'll consider it. But we don't know anybody who does mainframes. Like, who do we talk to? And she goes, I know exactly who you should talk to. I said, okay, we'll consider it, but we don't know anybody who does mainframes. Who do we talk to? And she goes, I know exactly who you should talk to. And I said, all right, hook me up. And she went out and made a connection. I think it was a LinkedIn thing.

And she gave me Cameron Say. And it turns out she had been a student of his, long story short. We were skeptical about the episode as well. Like, it doesn't sound very interesting until we met Cameron. And then we're like, holy cow, this guy's an all-star. He's legit. Yeah, he's so awesome. What most people don't know is that probably 90% of business transactions globally go through a mainframe. Somewhere, they go through a mainframe. Yeah, yeah. 90, 95% of all credit card transactions globally go through a mainframe but yeah yeah 90 95 of all credit card transaction

globally go through a mainframe it is the core and the foundation of the global economy that's just a fact that's a fact and most of those programs are in cobalt and that's not going to change anytime soon so these companies have to when you say use the term legacy yes but these are the core it's legacy but it's actually the core application of their businesses. You're talking about Bank of America. You're talking about Wells Fargo. You're talking about Home Depot, et cetera, et cetera. If a company runs a mainframe, the mainframe applications are the core of the company's business because the company is using the mainframe because it has to.

The nature of its work insisted it use a mainframe and so those applications on the mainframe are the michigan mission critical applications of the business a very amazing human being from the start and then also very talented with what he knows and and how he approaches what seemingly is not a big thing, but still is a big thing. I think, and even the way he teaches, I mean, like they're just, teachers are not just those who teach in grade school and middle school and high school. Like we have teachers of all types and man, it just takes so much to be a good teacher, to be a good coach, to be a good teacher. Jared, you know this, you're a coach for your kids' teams and whatnot, and I am as well. It's just so much effort to teach. I mean, maybe it's easy for

some. Maybe it's easy for you, but it takes a lot to teach or to coach or to lead. I think Cameron's the kind of person who just does it seemingly just easy. It just seems like it's his natural state, right? It seems like that. I think his passion and enthusiasm is natural. I think that he's also older. And so he's been teaching for many, many, many years. And I do know now that I've been coaching for five plus years, maybe seven years, I'm better at it now than I was when I first started, just because I do have that experience. And so I hope to get better and better every year as I coach. And I'm sure he's honed in.

He's figured out how to communicate things in ways that connects with people. And he was just fascinated and so full of joy and enthusiasm that it was just contagious. Like, I wanted to go learn some cobalt after that. I didn't, but I wanted to. Yeah, but they are still a big thing, apparently. And we should get him back. I think we can talk about other stuff with him as well especially around education that would be worthwhile and he's definitely willing to come back on the show so look out for our camera and

say be back as adam likes to call him in 2024 yeah well i got sales roots and in sales you always say be back you know well the be backs, be back. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I've never said that before. Well, it's when you walk away and you're not being sold to, you say, I'll be back. Well, I know Arnold Schwarzenegger, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I'll be back. Be back. But rebuilding DevOps from the ground up, I would say, was a fun episode because we had obviously seen Adam in stealth mode with System Initiative and had been fans of his over the years and talked to him and I would now call Adam Jacobs a friend so I think that uh that was fun because it came out of stealth mode you know it was like it's here let's talk about the thing Adam had been working on for a couple years.

We even asked him, I asked him on that episode, like, do you regret stealth mode? He's like, kind of. I'm paraphrasing, but kind of. You should go back and listen to that. Yeah, that's an example of a show because we've known Adam so well that you don't have to wait until the second half for it to get real good. Like, it just hops right in. Yeah, it's hot right from the start. It's hot from the start.

All right, Hal, thanks again. Here is your BMC remix. Break master cylinder. Master cylinder. I understand like the pain of not finding a clever name but you must

have recorded that one outside at New York City or something stopping traffic a lot of cars honking the pain of finding a good name should we stop

and hover there just do that right now let's just do it right now I mean oh gosh you want to go there let's go there okay

the pain of finding a good name so some of you know like hal that we do sweat the details and one detail that we have to sweat on a recurring basis is what are we going to call this stinking episode and sometimes it's just natural sometimes we have the name before anything else we're like here's good name. Let's make an episode about it. Other times we have no name and the show needs to go out and we're just grinding together to find, that didn't sound right, grinding names out in order to get this show shipped.

And it's like the last thing too. So it's the thing that's holding everything up. It holds it all up. And we've talked about this in the past. Here we are again. That's how Hal knows about it. We thought we would real quickly you know celebrate not just good episodes but let's talk about the best titles of the year according to yours truly and adam's truly so we both made

our quick lists of what we thought were our best titles of the year this should be brief you want to go first i have 11 oh gosh i uh i'll just let you go then and i'll just see if i if any of mine are left i guarantee i'll go over them just really quickly i won't i won't dredge it on, but I couldn't help it. Okay. Okay. From the top. Okay. Get with your friends. Yeah, obviously, right? Wait, are these in the order of your preference?

No, no. I don't know them. Yeah, this is just a list. Just asking. Good. Just a list. I didn't... No particular order.

Along the way, I could say, you know, yay or nay on high or low. I don't know. It gets challenging to kind of... Just call out your absolute... Maybe, like, absolute, maybe give absolute favorites as you go. My fae-faves? Yeah. All right. Second up, Goodbye Adam, Hello Zed.

Third, LLM's Break the Internet. Fourth, Vibes from Strange Loop. Coming to a Skinema near you. Oh, that's a good one gleaming the cube con you like that one or cube con oh yeah pushing back on unconstrained capitalism next level honorable mention beat freak and residence and then i like the kaizen episode s3 r2 b2 d2 and then even the best rides come to an end. Those are my faves from title-wise.

I can tell you why, but those are the ones that stood out to me as fun favorites from the year to title. Right. Well, you'll stole darn near all of mine. Oh, man. The only ones, which is a good thing because we have overlap. So I also enjoyed S3, R2, B2, D2 because of the way that came together.

LLM's Break the Internet, the freaking Residence, it was obvious, but it was still awesome. Matt Depends, still a favorite, although I may have trumped it recently with It Dependencies, which people really liked. And then my last one, Back to

the Terminal of the Future. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. It's fun to name a podcast, man. Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. Let's pick like maybe one or two from my list and your list that's like, was just challenging to name.

Like the, some of the angst we felt as we named it. Do you recall any? So back to the terminal of the future was one that we had, it was no, we were nowhere in that. Well, you were trying to name it. I remember this now. You were naming it on your own because you were producing that one

and you brought to me like your five names and there was like, you had the same concept of like, okay, it's the Terminal of the Future. The Future, yeah. But they were all, I don't know,

they just didn't do it. Kind of bland. And I just came up with like this, like it was just like a snap of the fingers. I was like back to the tree and you're just like, yeah, that's it. Yeah.

I think you put the fire emoji on it and it was just over. Yeah. It was, that was, I like those. Cause I feel like I've really helped, you know, cause I can tell that you're like working at it.

I've brought you titles where I'm like, here's what I have. And like, yeah, good luck. But I don't think you just have one. I'm at my end here. So whatever you come up with is it.

I've got no more. Exactly. So that exactly so that one that one was like difficult but it did just come to me and we didn't have to like do anything once I had it

it was just over with and it kind of made sense really like it was a play on obviously the movie title Back to the Future which is from our

our you know our days which we've been talking about a lot lately for sure and then we literally were going back to it because we hadn't talked Which is from our days. Which we've been talking about a lot lately. For sure. And then we literally were going back to it because we hadn't talked to them really in a while about Warp and what was going on there. Yeah, it was our second episode about Warp, so we're back on the same exact topic.

Yeah. Maybe it better would have been Beback, Warp will be back. I don't know, we could riff on some new ones there now that we know the Beback thing. Yeah. Well, and it's fun talking to Zach, too, because I feel for Zach. Zach Lloyd, who is a solo founder, solo founder of Warp and CEO of Warp. And I feel for his direction, and I feel for even wanting to take some of warp open source like i feel that tension that you feel like leading creating good product and being consistent with it and then being venture capital backed and all that pressure so i i just love that conversation quite a bit with uh zach but one i was quite happy with because i think it's good to have c Doctorow back and I think the last time we had had him on the show

it was like we had trouble naming that one as well and I didn't want to just go back to the enchitification naming that he had come up with which is great of course but we really talked about pushing back on unconstrained capitalism and we got called out on Twitter and then we didn't get called

out again because once I responded to the person they never came back and responded again they, and then we didn't get called out again because once I responded to the person, they never came back and responded again. They tried to say we didn't push back on Corey's ideas as if we were playing to this right-wing agenda or left-wing agenda or whatever wing it was basically. This liberal agenda. I'm like, this is not a politics show. This is just us as technologists looking at how technology applies and how the world revolves around it and then specifically this idea of just you know was the was the term he uses uh choke point capitalism yeah choking capitalism like these choke points that get placed on you know us and others in the

world to just strangle us and and in particular the audible stuff he's dealt with and i think that that that to me was a favorite title because i don't i don't think you were around to help me with it and i'm like i gotta ship this show and i can't name it bland i don't have any real opinion from you so i felt alone really laying out that title but i feel like that one landed pretty well personally yeah was a good one and then gleaming the cube con that was a tough one because that's probably like our 75th try on that episode because it's tough with anthologies there's no singular topic it's cube con but we've been there before so is it anthology are we going to list out the topics we have lots of guests i think there's six guests on that yeah and cube cube i mean we had a google gleaming the cube and remember exactly

what that means and what urban dictionary thinks it means because they don't want accidentally which i think applies because like getting outside of your comfort zone right which i'm like us at cube con we're kind of outside our comfort zone aren't we adam that's right so that one took a while to land on but but it's just fun to say. And one of the best 80s movies ever. I think it's barely an 80s movie though. Is it 90s maybe? Late 90s, early, late 80s, early 90s? No, it's late 80s, I believe. All right, let's move on. So there's some favorite titles. Let us know which of our titles you think are awesome or terrible. Should we do least favorite titles?

I mean, we could do that too. Let's ignore the ugly. Let's ignore the ugly just for today. No uglies. Let's hear from our longtime listener, Rory O'Connor. My favorite 2023 episode was way back in January, and it's one I've re-listened to several times. It was Cameron Say talking about COBOL and mainframes.

The topic was just so interesting because it's an area of technology that's unhyped and just not one you hear about very much, but it's obviously very ubiquitous and very critical. Cameron was just such an engaging guest and his love for his field is just so inspirational. It even got me thinking, should I learn COBOL? I'd love to hear from him again someday and or hear more from operators in what we call the legacy tech space which is where many if not most programmers live including myself thanks for this and all the other great episodes you've done this year thank you rory probably don't need to discuss this one too much because it's it's cameron once again but i will say when it comes to bmc remixes rory i think you get

spoiled because this one's spectacular i'd love to hear more from operators in what we call the legacy tech space which is where many if not most programmers live including myself Oh my gosh. The bongos in there were amazing. Just a really good bongo solo. Uh-huh. Oh my gosh. That was awesome.

So good. Legacy Tech Space. Legacy Tech... Hell yeah. That's the best. Well, for one, we have to bring that beat somewhere else. It kind of reminds me of how we stumbled upon the theme for Change Lookin' Friends. That very, you know, 80s VHS tape intro sounding sound that we happen to rickroll right in front of it.

It kind of reminds me of that track a bit. Yeah, agreed. All right, next up. Who's this? Oh, it's our old friend, Brett Cannon. Brett calls in every year, and we always love hearing from him. Hey, Adam and Jared, this is Brett Cannon. Congratulations on yet again another fantastic year of podcast episodes.

For the state of the log, I would say the most popular episode, at least in our household for the year, was Cory Doctorow's episode, Pushing Back on Unconstrained Capitalism, episode 565. I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast episode with my wife, Andrea, where she has not only been so enthralled to want to listen to the episode, but actually agreed so much with the guest. So that was definitely a wonderful and entertaining episode to listen to. I'll also say I really enjoyed episode 558, Open Sources at a Crossroads, with Steven O'Grady from Redmonk.

I thought it was a really good conversation to have about the state of open source and where licenses are going and just how to kind of try to keep things sustainable and going in the community. Episode 549 with Steve Yeager was a lot of fun too, just hearing Steve's stories. And he's just such a great storyteller.

I know I kind of geeked out along with Adam listening to episode 537 on hard drive reliability at scale with Andy Klein. So that turned out to be just a lot of fun and just learning about all the little nitty gritty details about physical hard drives still. Those are probably the top ones. The smattering in reverse chronological order that just deserve an honorable mention was Next Level, where you got to listen to one of your new albums.

30 Years of Debbing, episode 553. A New Path to Full-Time Open Source, episode 533. May Frames Are Still a Big Thing, episode 524. And closing at the beginning of the year was Just Postgres, 523 with Craig Kirstens. And I made sure this year to actually make sure every episode I talked about in this recording was actually from the year of 2023. Once again, congrats, guys. Another great year. And talk to you soon. Thank you, Brett brett yes good job sticking to this year that's a lot of faves that might be more than you have in your list there adam he's got a lot of gosh man yeah i was

having a hard time keeping up but all right definitely some crossovers let's talk about next level real quick that was your idea very cool we're releasing these changelog beats albums we put out two of them simultaneously and of course course, where do you release them? Well, you put them on Spotify, you put them on Apple Music, you put them on YouTube Music, you put them on all the places that people can listen to them outside of the context of a podcast. But hey, we are podcasters. Can't we just release a podcast episode where each song is a chapter and people can just listen to the entire album as if it was a chaptered podcast well of course you can great idea well executed unless you're on spotify then you can't then you can't but everybody else gets to yeah that's neat the

insider baseball there is we when this our podcast is obviously listenable inside of Spotify. However, you're not allowed to podcast just straight music because they think you're trying to get onto the platform out of the context of being a musician. And so we're like, Hey, you know, we're not musicians. Obviously we work with a musician named Brickmaster Stillinger, and this is just an album. Not, we're not like all of our podcasts are not going to be this music. And so they said, you can't have this episode. So if you go there and you see that it skips whatever that episode, I guess it actually didn't have an episode number, so it's okay.

But it didn't allow Next Level as a podcast to be in the podcast feed on Spotify for those reasons. Open platforms and RSS for the win again. That's right. And Spotify for the reasons. Open platforms and RSS for the win again. That's right. And Spotify for the loss. So if you're listening to us on Spotify and you want to keep doing that, have at it. We like you to listen however it is that you prefer.

But if you're looking for advice, we would suggest that you download an independent, well-made podcast app from somebody who supports the open web and listen to our shows there, we think you'll have a better experience. And you know what? You'll have chapters too, which Spotify does not support. How can you listen to podcasts without chapters?

I mean, I get it. It's a continuous conversation. Some people just let it flow. You see my face? But I like to listen to the chapters just to even see what's going to happen here as we keep going, even if I'm not going to skip around. So got to have chapters, y'all. It's like a safety net when you're listening to a podcast, especially, I don't know. I just feel like I jump into so many pieces of content these days in all the different platforms that if you don't give me waypoints, I feel unguided.

You know, I like to be guided. Who doesn't want a little guided tour? Hold my hand. Yes, man. Take my hand. Hold my, take my strong hand. Take me on a journey on your magic carpet ride. Well, gosh, this, if last BMC remix was a treat, this one's a trick or treat because BMC got hilariously spicy with Brett.

Brett, I hope you enjoy this. I hope Andrea enjoys this as well. Me too. Good friends of ours. We've been lucky enough to sit down and have a meal with you and ice cream with you. And this is just hilarious here we go so I would say the most popular episode for the year was my wife Andrea pushing back on unconstrained capitalism up so 565 I'll also say I really enjoyed episode 558 open sources at a crossroads I thought it was a really good conversation with my wife Andrea I enjoyed the scene to episode 537 on hard drive reliability at scale with my wife, Andrea.

That was definitely wonderful and entertaining. Episode 549 was a lot of fun and just learning about all the little nitty gritty details about my wife, Andrea. She's just such a great storyteller. Those are probably the top ones. And I made sure this year to actually make sure every episode I talked about in this recording was about my wife, Andrea. That was good. The ending, perfect. Yes.

And Andrea, you were also perfect. Thank you. There you go. Good stuff, man. Good stuff. Up next, we have a voicemail from listener Mikhail. Hey, guys. First off, congrats on another year in the bag.

As a longtime listener and subscriber, I was really weary of, congrats on another year in the bag. As a long-time listener and subscriber, I was really weary of the format change for the main show this year, but I'll be honest, the cadence of news, interview, and chat show has actually been really great. Excited to see what you guys have planned for the new year, and I'm personally looking forward to some more Matt Jingles on the show. More Matt Jingles. Yes. Never heard that before. What's even better, honestly, is sitting there when he breaks into song. I know. It's like, oh my gosh, he's going to get his guitar again. No idea what's going to happen.

And I have to say, most of his jingles are funny contextually, and you can tell he has skills and musical abilities. But Backslash is our trash. It's a legit good song. Oh my gosh Get stuck in your head I go back to it And listen to it sometimes

It was so funny It was so on point I love that song I just go back And listen to it Just because I don't mind ash I don't even mind bash

I like cashing and cash And I'll clash with a dash and a flash, man I'm not gonna say gash I don't even mind hash I'm out on the lash, man I got a rash Oh my gosh, man I'm out on the lash, man. I got a rash. Oh my gosh, man.

I'm gonna smash your face. And if you backslash me, that's trash. Backslash is a trash. Backslash is a trash. Yeah, backslash is a trash. Don't say forward slash Just say Slash Just say slash

Just say slash No need to say the forward bit Just say Slash Well, I think anytime you see somebody use or say forward slash, you're just sending that song. That song. Yeah, you don't have to say the forward bit, you know? Yeah, you don't have to say that forward bit.

Too good. Too good. Well, I'm happy to hear from Mikhail and from others. We'll hear another one as well. People who like the new format, you know, the new three-flavor changelog, this was a bit of a risk for us. I think we both thought it was the right move for the show, and we both are enjoying the fruits of that decision,

but it definitely was risky as he was weary about it or leery about it. I'll never know which one of those words to use. Both. Because he thought, hey, don't ruin your good things. Right. We got a good thing going with a once a week interview and happy to hear that it's resonating. Yes.

I would say we even struggled more particularly about the technical bits, not how to obviously do the podcast, but how to feed the podcast. Okay. Pun intended. Yeah. gain is like one channel that gets subscribers and then they just come there and regardless of what they do in that channel it just happens and so they could experiment with different formats and flavors now the audience can push back and comment and stuff like that but for the most part they get like this channel and maybe they have to diversify and like make a new channel if it's so different but you know with a podcast you kind of have a promise Hey, I release weekly on this week with this kind of thing. And this is sort of what you're getting and you may lose people.

That's the risk. You may lose people if you don't agree with it. And I think the work we went through to get to keeping them all in the same main feed and then different feeds for each individual was the right move, but it, the logical move, but it wasn't that simple initially. You want to speak to like the struggles we went through with just getting there, Jared? Well, you have the technical changes which need to happen. You have to be able to support what we call a meta cast, a cast that is actually three podcasts in our admin

munged into one. So I guess to a certain extent, it's an advertisement for custom software because this would have been much more difficult if we had been using, I mean, impossible with like Anchor or probably Transistor. Difficult with WordPress, for sure. We could have got it done with WordPress because you can hack that sucker however you want.

But the fact that we just run our own software stack really made that part merely labor intensive, which wasn't that bad, but it was totally possible. So we had just the technical machinations of getting that done. Of course, the decision-making process, how does that work? Should we do it that way? I think that was more debate and discussion and really just slowly deciding versus making quick decisions.

Because we knew this was one of those doors that probably could go back, a two-way door, but not the easiest thing to reopen once you let the cat out of the bag. It was a big decision for us, and it required software changes that would have been rollbackable, but not easily rollback, and investment on that. But I think the fact that we do have our own custom platform allowed us to do that in a way that would have been way more difficult,

if not impossible, using off-the-shelf software. For sure. That decision comes back over and over again to bear fruit. News almost had a whole different name. It was almost starting from zero with a whole new feed. Yeah. I think it would have just further bifurcated our network, which is just challenging as people who run a network that has multiple different podcasts and kind of keeping them all blended together. And from a sponsorship perspective and a thematic and topical perspective to the hosts involved and the panelists involved, like all the things, you know, obviously change all news is you and the show is us and friends is us plus. But I think that, you know, bringing news into the same feed and then just adding friends to

the same feed on a different day. I mean, it's just worked out perfectly in my opinion. I think it's just been really great, but then still giving the option, hey, if you don't want all these, there's still choice. And we don't have to give up the 15 years we've been feeding this feed of podcasts and lose the juice, so to speak, that we've gained over the years, the equity we've gained. And we've had a handful of people, I would say probably I could count them on one hand, who have reached out and said, I don't really want all this. Is there just a way to get the old show back? And the fact that we can say, yes, here's an interviews feed. It's called Change Log Interviews. It's literally the Change Log every Wednesday, just like you've always gotten it. It just immediately serves their needs and is a beautiful thing versus saying, sorry, our new thing now you know you'll have to either unsubscribe or adjust so i love being able to meet people where they are but also bring them along and do some new stuff i think in terms of 2023 friends was our big risk

of this year i mean we were already doing news so news goes back to june of the previous year but we were doing it as a sub show of the changelog we hadn't given it its own thing yet and adding friends this year that our new talk show which we've done 25 episodes now as we ship this one because 25 will be the pound to find round two that ships out prior to this which is just a riot by the way game theory dude friends i think was our big risk this year and for for my money it's just been the most fun I mean the ability to just do stuff that's off the beaten path to play games to have people come back who've been on the show recently and not have to have some sort of new reason to talk to them um the episode with Christina Warren strikes a chord with me is just one that we wouldn't have done in the past.

Yeah, for sure. But just was awesome. I loved making that and I loved listening to it as well. This talk show format, for my money, is one of our best ideas. And I think we've proven, at least so far, it's sustainable. We can have something to talk about every week, and it's enjoyable. But it's the changelog enough that it's not like an entirely new thing.

I'm just happy about that. I'm excited. I think that there's a lot of potential there that we haven't tapped yet. And the fact that our audience hasn't been turned off by it, in fact, in terms of downloads, it's kind of outperforming interviews at this point a little bit. Not much, but enough to be noticeable. It makes in terms of downloads, it's kind of outperforming interviews at this point a little bit.

Yeah. Not much, but enough to be noticeable. It makes me think, okay, it's validation, and that's awesome. It's like that carnival horse race when everybody has a water gun, they're shooting that target, and the horses, I suppose, they're on the track and they're all racing. It's like news, friends, interviews. It's like who's in it?

They're all pretty much the same, but one's got an edge. So thank you for that reassurance, Mikhail. And here is your personalized BMC remix. Hey guys. ... ...... What did he say?

That's an abstract one right there. Yeah. Well, reminds me of the old beatbox days, you know? Yeah, it does. The intros to it. And people actually do that with their own voice for real. I don't really do it. Oh, I know.

Just with their own mouth only? Amazing. Yes. Like Rozelle. This is the tricky part. The beat and the chorus at the same time. Yeah, precisely. Greatest beatboxer that I've ever heard. All right.

Speaking of beatboxers, this has nothing to do with beatboxers. Jarvis Yang, whom we've heard from previous years as well. Jarvis hangs out in our Slack. By the way, I think it was last year that I told people about our Wordle channel in Slack and quadrupled the population of Pound Wordle, which is still going strong to this day. So if you're still Wordling or if you have your own daily puzzle that you play, we have a channel in our Slack called Pound Wordle that we just share our Wordle results. And there's probably about 10 of us who share our Wordles pretty much every day and cheer each other on and drop a funny emoji on there.

And it's just an open invite for you to come do that with us. Jarvis is one of them. Here's Jarvis. Hey, ChangeLoggers. This is Jarvis, and I've got a special shout-out to the incredible people shaping the Minnesota software and technology community. First up, a massive high-five to the fantastic folks at Ministar for putting together a mini-bar and mini-demo this year. Also wanted to give thanks to the folks at GDG Twin Cities for bringing back DevFest Minnesota. Your commitment to fostering innovation, collaboration, and knowledge sharing

is inspiring. Can't wait for next year to come. And speaking of brilliance, let's give a shout out to the Homelab nature himself, Techno Tim from YouTube. I didn't know Tim was from here until I listened to the Homelab Nerds Unite episode with Adam. Techno Tim, your insightful content and act for breaking down complex concepts make the tech world more accessible to all of us. Keep those tutorials and deep dives coming. We're learning and loving every minute of it. So whether you're a seasoned developer, an aspiring coder, or just someone fascinated by the tech universe, give me a round of applause to these amazing contributors shaping the Minnesota software

and tech scene. Have a happy new year. And you too. Wow. That was cool. Yeah. Techno Tim. It's so strange because I watched him on YouTube for like a year, I'll bet at least. Before I'd actually had a conversation with him. And he was normal. Believe it or not, Jared. He was normal. He was normal. What were you expecting?

Well, I wasn't expecting anything. But you know, sometimes we often when we meet people, they're like, wow, it's Jared or Adam or whatever. And, you know, we're just normal, right? We're just normal people. Right. Totally. But, you know, it was really just easy to get into the details with Tim.

Like, it wasn't hard at all, really. And speaking of that show in particular, that was another one where you helped out with the name. Because I was like, I wanted Homelab in it, but I think you were like you were like homelab nerds unite and that was just a perfect name for it and that's like an outperforming i think that's the highest performing friends episode to date it might actually compete with justin's episode potentially is that right or is it the highest performing i did not look i can search it real quick okay i, I'm incorrect. It does not compete with Justin's. Justin's trumps it by about 12,000 listens. Still up there.

Yeah, still up there. Definitely a lot of feedback on it. A lot of people love the Homelab conversations. We definitely want to get Techno Tim back on with Jeff Geerling or in addition to Jeff. Again, a couple of Friends episodes this year that wouldn't have happened previously,

but especially Jeff Geerling on the deer red hat episode. That came together in a pinch and was very topical and timely, and we used to not be able to do that with interviews. Yeah, for sure. Well, speaking of Homelab and Technotim, I'm working on a State of Homelab episode with him for the new year.

So kicking off the new year here on Friends. And you're obviously welcome to that, but you weren't there last time. You're happy to be there. We'll see if I'm around. It doesn't have to be an Adam show. It could be an Adam, Tim, and Jared show. Sure. Just coordinating timing, but I want to do a State of Home Lab top of the year,

like where things might go, where they've been last year, kind of a catch-up and recap where it might go. So rough plan on that front. Right on. things might go where they've been last year. Kind of a catch-up and recap where it might go. Rough plan on that front. Right on. Well, here's Jarvis remixed by Breakmaster Cylinder. Bring it, bring it, bring it, bring it, bring it, bring it back. Techno. Breaking down complex

knowledge. Bring it back. Techno. Let's give a massive high five Nice Bring you back techno That's a head nodder right there man You can't help but nod your head to that one

And if you was just listening to that and you didn't nod your head Hey check again Nod your head That's right Alright we're having some fun now Up next we have Jamie Kernow Hey Adam and Jared oh man all right we're having some fun now up next we have jamie kerno hey adam and jared jamie here i'm a lead engineer and open source contributor from the uk i just wanted to say

a massive thank you for consistently coming out with great content week after week i love listening to the changelog and i tell every developer that I meet to go and listen to you guys. My favorite episodes this year have to be engineering management for the rest of us with Sarah Drasner and what it takes to scale engineering with Rachel Potvin. I manage a small but growing team and those episodes help me to dive deeper into my role and hopefully make an awesome work environment for my team. I also really enjoyed hearing you guys geeking out on film in the episode the beginning of the end of physical media that was a really fun episode and of course the drop of changelog beats big shout out to Breakmaster Cylinder and to you guys for making that sweet robot dance make out music available to code along to.

You guys are such an awesome part of the developer community. Thanks for keeping it fresh and keep dishing out the episodes. We really appreciate it. Stealing my faves. Stealing my faves. You know, when I was going down my list, engineering management for the rest of us almost made my list. But as you can tell, my list is already long.

So I was like, can I add one more to my, in my favorites, like seven or eight? I was trying to be, you said three and I'm like, I can't do three. So I'm like, I'm just gonna put them there and share what I can. That's it really. But that almost made it. But I think what was even cooler about that was it was the first

time we got to talk to Sarah on a podcast before. We've been trying to schedule her for a while and she's busy. We're busy and things don't always work out scheduling wise, but we finally nailed it down. She had the book out recently and it just worked out perfectly, I think. And he's right. It was a spot on conversation with Sarah. I love her perspective on engineering management. She's got wisdom to share and why not share it here? You have to have appetite to make things better. And I think that that is the one thing that is consistent across all these jobs is whatever I was doing was pretty

outcome driven to like, I'm going to make things better. I'm either going to make things better via my, you know, coding all day, or I'm going to make things better via doing a lot of open source or enabling other people and ramping them up. I'm going to make things better by setting up the organization in a way where people can not have distractions and be able to understand the strategy of their work. Those are all just different vehicles to an outcome. So I would say if people are interested, if people are nerds

and they're interested in these kind of roles, keep making things better. Like people do eventually see that. Yeah, and the episode with Rachel Potvin. People do eventually see that. Yeah. And the episode with Rachel Potvin. I mean, so much experience that she has gained over the years and her ability and just the teams that she's led are so impressive that she just has like top level. What's it called?

Clout? They're, you know, just like, you just want to hear what she's got to say because she just has earned it. And I've listened to that one back and I don't even lead larger teams. I lead no teams. I lead myself and then I talk to you about stuff. But yeah, so much good stuff in that one in particular,

which goes back to the Laura Hogan episode as well, right? I mean, which was mentioned previously, which wasn't this year, but man, a lot of like engineering leadership conversations that we've had, probably things that you've spearheaded for the most part because they're just areas that I don't really dive into on my own. I really enjoy getting exposed to that level of thinking. And yeah, I appreciate it, right along with Jamie.

What I can boast about it is that it's that touch of helping people and then also psychology. You know, how we operate as human beings intertwines with your ability to help somebody and mentor somebody. And understanding psychology is a, I would say, is one of the many skill sets you could and should foster as a leader. Because the more you understand about humankind and the ways we operate as human beings, the better you will be to lead what? Human beings, right?

So, I mean, it seems to make sense. Yes. But he mentioned the physical media one. I mean, and you mentioned that in happenstance, like, we may not have done it unless we had this podcast called Change Look on Friends where we can sort of be different, I suppose, than our typical content. Loved that show, man. I mean, that was probably, it's in my list of favorites. I'll mention that. But just having a platform like this where we can talk about that kind of thing that is interesting to our audience, but at the same time, not dead center in terms of topic. Perfect.

I love that. I don't know. era of film loving, you know, like a filmmaking and film loving and film watching, where for a time for a brief, like 20 year span, you could get almost any piece of media that had been released, you could find it on disk, and you could find it someplace and you could rent it. You didn't have to worry about where the rights expired or not, who has ownership, is it in a vault or not? It was probably released at some point. And if it was out there, you could find a way to source it. And Netflix had a great catalog for that. And what makes me sad is that

there are so many titles, like thousands upon thousands upon thousands of titles that have never been brought to streaming either legally or, uh, you know, to buy like any way, shape or form that are not available to stream or not available to buy digitally that are just gone in vaults while, you know, um,

billionaires decide how they can manipulate various IP agreements to, you know, suck every single cent out of, uh, what was supposed to be art, uh, never forget the business part of show business. And it just feels like,

but there was this moment in time where you could get everything. And now that moment is gone because there's so many amazing films and TV shows and other things that are just not available. And I feel like we've lost something. It feels like when the video stores started to close.

And I just, I don't know, it makes me sad. Very well said and very sad. I love that about how Friends has worked out for us to give us that flexibility. Because, I mean, after you do this for 15 years and you only talk about one topic that is very big and a big umbrella, you kind of get siloed you know i've got other interests that i was talking to byron recently from cinedia because we were talking about getting them on as a sponsor and we met them at coopcon recently and he was like oh man he was good he was geeking on me about my home theater and he knew all about the home theater because i had told him via a podcast right and so like it's just cool.

And I love that. Like, he's like, I love your theater and this and that. I was talking about the speakers and, you know, Plex and whatnot. So just that show, that episode in particular was a lot of fun. And I really enjoyed producing that one because I got to put so many sound bites from movies into it, you know, and songs and just like like, almost it wasn't every time we mentioned a movie because there was times when you reeled off like seven movies in a row, but almost every movie that was mentioned,

I got to go to either my favorite part or a well-known part of that movie and drop it in. And I just love doing that stuff. So much fun. All right. So that's Jamie. Now, Jamie did mention the robot dance make out music which we've

heard Breakmasters beats likened to this year by one of our JS Party guests and well here's some customized Jamie Kernow dance make out music doesn't make sense but here we go I also really enjoy the drop

big shout out to you guys for making that sweet sweet robot dance make out music keeping it fresh robot dance make out music keeping it fresh sweet robot dance make out music it's a good lyric, man. I kind of want more of that song, you know? That song, it ends a little early, in my opinion. It does. That's a nice, smooth groove.

I kind of want to hear the whole song. Yeah. Well, the good thing is, some of these beats we're hearing for the first time, not so much this very moment, but in the last few days, that we're going to ask Breakmaster, hey, can we pull that beat into this new thing we're going going to do so you may hear more of these and interstitials

outros etc what's next jared next up is another familiar name it's aj kerrigan hey change like crew it's aj kerrigan just want to say thanks for a lovely year of podcasting in 2023 i love the range and perspectives in your ultra mega feed from short form changelog news updates to timeless episodes like 30 years of Debian or efficient Linux at the command line from the glorious nerd balderdash silliness of the pound to find game show to the episode about tech by choice with Valerie Phoenix that made me want to group hug everyone involved and then BMC. Those beats wove through the whole year and then got their own episode and a couple of

changelogats albums too. You all rock. See you in 2024. Now that I hear him rattle off all we've done this year, I'm just wondering, can we top that for next year too? Do we have a mountain to climb? The challenge has been laid forth. By us. For us.

For us, by us. Can we achieve what we've achieved this year or better should we okay i guess even is even a better question should we try well in terms of formats i think we'll hear like an old favorite maybe back on the airwaves but i think we found a nice groove for the changelog i think more like this and just more diversity in our talk show can certainly happen i think when it comes to changelog beats we already have more diversity in our talk show can certainly happen. I think when it comes to Change Dog Beats we already have more albums in the works so I don't know if we'll top

Next Level. You're telling people that? I just told them. I think I mentioned it elsewhere maybe in news that we do have more albums that are coming forth soon. Maybe one of which features an outro track

that's a listener favorite. We'll see what happens there. I don't know, man. I guess time will tell whether or not we can top ourselves. Sometimes you just gotta keep keeping on and doing your thing and seeing what happens. I don't feel like this year was all that amazing

until I'm hearing these voicemails and I'm starting to think, dang. Dang, it was a good year. We did good. We did good. At least a few people think so. That's good enough for me. Well, that's the thing when you're running a marathon,

I suppose you sort of get into this groove where you stop listening to your body, basically, or your body stops talking to your brain. There's some sort of disconnect. I never get that far. I hate running, so I never get that far. I'm always listening to my body and I stop. This is hypothetical because I don't run either.

So this is your example. You heard things. Okay. A friend of a friend told me this. I understand the way of a runner. I'm not a runner, but I understand the way of a runner. And so I imagine that's what happens is when you're running a marathon. I've done other things that are very challenging.

So just supplant whatever makes sense that you've done. things that are very challenging so just you know supplant whatever makes sense that you've done insert your challenging thing here right something that takes a long time that you got to keep putting effort out i think at some point like logic and reason sort of disconnect in a way that the pain doesn't tell the thing that's logical to stop doing it you know or the thing with reason is like yeah you know what let's keep doing this not that this is a painful thing, but I think when you're running a marathon, you just sort of do it.

You get into a groove, you get into a mode, and you just accomplish your mission. Yeah. Well, our mission is just to put out awesome podcasts every week. And sometimes we feel like we do it, sometimes we feel like we don't do it, but we still put something out and hope it's good. And so it's awesome to hear from people who confirm

our priors or at least help our priors out. Alright AJ BMC Beat, here it comes. BMC Beat made me want to group hug everyone. BMC Beat made me want to group hug everyone. BMC

Beat made me want to group hug everyone. Beat MC. Beats made me want to group hug everyone. Beat MC. Beats made me want to group hug everyone. That's another one. I kind of want to keep it going. That's some beautiful music. Yeah. That's a harp, I'm of want to keep it going. That's some beautiful music. Yeah. That's a harp, I'm assuming.

A harp and a snare. Definitely a snare. Just a guess. Could be keys as a harp. Could be harp keys. Could be key harps. You know, any combination of a harp key. Yeah.

Really. There's a poet slash musician from Portland, I believe. His name is Hobo Johnson. And he has a Tiny Desk concert, which is just spectacular. Very unique individual. It's like spoken word poetry with music in the background. And he has a band. And every once in a while, his band yells the same word he's saying, very emotionally.

Good luck to my future wives and their future lives without me. You guys would do great. I'm sure that I've prepared you for every guy you'll date and every guy you'll marry and every guy you'll hate. Yes, the lullabies. I sang out of tune. That's probably what did it. Or my twin size mattress that I have since I was seven

that we have to sleep on whenever she spends the night. And if she falls off again, she'll find another guy to like ever. Just Romeo and Juliet. Romeo and Juliet. We're getting drunk and eating Percocets. But just seize my stress. But soft but light. The underwinter breaks.

It is these. But Juliet just puked off of the balcony. And how romantic. And he sings about heartbreak and divorce and it's just very powerful stuff. I think he's kind of fallen by the wayside in terms of his music. I'm not sure if he's doing it anymore. But anyways, this track sounds a lot like him.

Like that kind of music and then that spoken word over the top of it. So getting the Hobo Johnson vibes. I have to check that out. Yeah. For sure. His Tiny Desk concert, I think they won the contest. So Tiny Desk did a contest years ago where you submit a video

and they pick one band to give them a concert. Because normally it's huge names that are going on the Tiny Desk thing. And he made this video in his backyard with his bandmates. And he basically just yells into this microphone. And they yell with him at certain points. And it's a very interesting sound. And they won the Tiny Desk concert. And when they came and do it, they were just tickled to be there.

It wasn't like, yes, I do all these concerts. And so I'll do Tiny Desk. It's like they were so happy to be on Tiny Desk that it was really cool. All right, we're getting near the end here. Here comes Alex. What's up, guys? This is Alex from the Netherlands. I'm really happy to leave you this message.

I'm a huge follower. I listen to all your episodes. And what I really like from this year was the introduction of the new section i really like it also it's very punchy the starting which is narrated i really really like it and also the change along their friends because you know you have more sort of a freestyle you can talk about interesting stuff and when it comes to guests i really like the episodes with them i cannot pronounce his name but he's the author of the pragmatic engineer and also with the

corey doctorow and also with the silent willis if i remember correctly the guy that created jungle and now he's a lot into ai anyway keep on doing what you're doing. I'm a huge supporter and well, happy new year. Happy new year to you as well. So Simon Willison, multi-time guest this year I believe. LLM's Break the Internet. That was a classic. Cory Doctorow of course has had a few mentions.

He was on twice as we mentioned. The one in the spring and one in the fall most recently was the pushing back on constrained capitalism. If I'm honest, those two episodes, I go back to the first one more i just really loved the conversation about chickenized reverse centaurs and that whole bit was very fascinating so i love that one specifically and what else did he mention oh he mentioned gerge gerge rose gerge oros yeah he is an annual guest each fall we just did our state of the Tech Market with him a couple weeks back. And yeah, good stuff all around.

That's why we bring him back every year to tell us what's been going on lately. We almost didn't call it the State of something because of State of the Log. Yeah. Well, you're going to do State of Homelab, so maybe we're getting kind of repetitive here. And also the state of quantum computing. True. And we had a JS Party episode about state-of-the-art state machines, art of the state machines. I don't know. A lot of state, you know, we're developers. We're always dealing with state, you know. It's that time of year. Yeah. we're developers. We're always dealing with state. It's that time of year. We also went off-topic to, well,

off-title, I should say. Not off-topic. Off-title that time around because we had two back-to-back that were this insane tech hiring market and then this not insane tech hiring market. I was kind of bummed we didn't keep that. Well, I just felt like it couldn't scale.

If we're going to do them every year, now we have a title that can scale. Like, say a log scales. You just change the year. Yeah, increment the number. Now we just increment the number next year and we just have them back on. Whereas if we keep doing some sort of operator

in front of the word insane, we're going to use the question mark this year. That would have been cool because he actually said it on the show. This would be the question mark one. But then what are we going to do after that? Division? Forward slash? I mean, we going to do after that? Division? Forward slash?

I mean, we'd never do a backslash operator. We almost had to reschedule that show too. It almost didn't happen. We almost titled it differently and it almost didn't happen because of just timing and things that happen. Scheduling whenever. When you ship five shows a week-ish,

it's always a scheduling hassle. Obviously three here, but it's challenging. It's challenging. Mm-hmm. week-ish. It's always a scheduling hassle. Obviously three here, but it's challenging. It's challenging. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right, Alex, here's your beat. Introduction. New section.

This is very punchy. Freestyle. I really like it. I really like it. That opening was the opening, I believe, to an outro track. Oh, really? Yeah. I have to hear it again.

Hold on. Oh, I know which one it is. It's the Figaro one. That's right. Yeah. Sofiago. Yeah. Sofiago.

Yes. Sofiago. Yeah. Our old outro to The Chainsaw, which we haven't used in a while which we should bring back just for fun we should remix that thing just for fun yeah yeah let's bring that yeah yeah for sure because when i hear that when i heard his beats i suppose whatever that was that yeah thing and i heard the intro i was thinking it was going to be so if you're not going the outro but it was not it was you know Breakmaster is probably

thinking they're never going to notice this is the same sound in the front of this no I do well that's gotcha with humans is audio is memorable very almost more memorable than visual almost there's no science that I know of behind that but I'm going to say that that's how we roll. Marielle's not here to correct you, so it's going to just stand. That's right. Well, she might actually agree with me. She's not here to say, so you can just keep saying that all you want. I can't deny it.

Here is a voicemail from Skak Nidaleen. So it's super hard to choose moments or episodes or anything, but I'm going to give it a try. So I'll start with an aberrant generation of programmers, if I pronounce that correctly, then refined thinking, and you call it tech debt, I call it malpractice. I called those three out early on on Slack as ones that really resonated with me and that was pretty cool scrolling through the Slype a little bit to see the goat templating using temples that was really cool I really enjoyed that one then the episode human skills to pay the bills with cable that was really a good episode and it actually led to having cable in one of my podcasts so that was pretty

darn sweet the j's Party episode with Valerie Phoenix I love that episode there is so many things that resonated with me I shared a whole thing on Slack about that about the boss resonated with me I think that was a really important episode I enjoyed so many things from Practical AI the Practical AI one as well and there's a bunch of other James Lock and friends it was also also really, really good. And then just a couple of quick ones from YouTube, I would say Big Tech Meets to Burn. That one was really good. I even shared it on LinkedIn. Then calling out AWS Lambda. That one was really, really insightful. And then I own this thing. So I think if I had to choose, those were some that really just jumped out at me in this moment while I was recording it.

Picking clips even. Picking our YouTube clips. A couple of those YouTube clips did get some good traction over there. The Calling Out AWS Lambda one in particular, which was Mateo Kalina on JS Party, got a lot of comments on that one. A lot of interest on that one. And lot of interest on that one. And then, of course, anytime you put Cory Doctorow with a microphone and a video camera and let him talk about big tech,

you're going to have some hot fire coming out of his mouth. That's right. And just a couple of titles from Cory. Amazon is screwing authors left and right. Angry face. Yes. Cory Doctorow on the Google-Facebook duopoly.

What's the one he was talking about with AWS Lambda? Can you rehash that one or summarize? It's Matteo Colina on JS Party. One way or another, we are all tied to Amazon, Google, or Microsoft, or GitHub, or whatever, that are investing in some of our technologies and providing funds in various ways, okay? I'm not saying it's a direct thing, okay?

But they have their own cloud products, okay? And they are pushing this down, okay? Now, the surge of serverless and a lot of other pay- millisecond thing okay pay by consume okay has made absolutely damaging for those companies to invest even one dime in performance okay oh fascinating oh my god i've never heard this take. I mean, duh, it makes sense. The incentive... Yeah, it's like, we don't need your stuff to be slow. We don't need it to be fast.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we are paying us for compute. You pay for more resources, okay? Look, look, even a hotter take than that. Oh, please. Oh my god. This is all the hot takes. So AWS has gone so good length in trying to frame the narrative

to get more of your money. Because you know Node.js is asynchronous, can run multiple requests at the same time with great speed, right? Right. Despite what people who write Ruby or Python might tell you. Yeah. So again, Ruby and Python runs one request at a time, okay? And this is great.

I love Ruby. I love Python. I don't, I'm just... Yeah, nobody's poo-pooing on those communities, but there's just a lot of poo-pooing on Node, which I don't like. Yeah, you know, you can do the same thing

with those languages, by the way. You can run event-based computation on Ruby and Python. It doesn't matter, okay? It's the same logic, okay? So you have languages that are capable of running multiple requests, a lot of them, actually, thousands, on the same process. Most of our apps literally take some data from a database and send it out, okay? So when one database query is running, I can definitely send another one down the line because my CPU

and memory are basically idling there. So Node.js made a huge splash because it was asynchronous and it was able to handle thousands of concurrent requests from a single tiny node process. Even a tiny Raspberry Pi can run hundreds of concurrent requests on most things. OK, now AWS convinced everybody that running more than one request at a time per process was wrong. And, you know, they have you pay per second even when that CPU is idle. This is AWS Lambda.

So if you use AWS Lambda, you're paying even if your cpu is literally doing nothing and everybody is believing in this massive lie essentially that that is a better model it's better for them okay it's you know it you need to know the trade-offs lambdas are great at low volume because they scale to zero and start very fast in genetic scheme of thing. Try running a lot of lambdas and then check your AWS bill. Okay? This is going to be, you're going to be hit pretty heavily down if you have

a lot of lambda calls because, or even worse, you know that there is a massive amount of limit of how many lambdas you can spawn on a single AWS account. I don't know if you know this, but... Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, massive amount of limit of how many lambdas you can spawn on a single AWS account. I don't know if you know this, but... Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, wow.

How many can you have simultaneously spun up? I think by default is, I think, 256. So at maximum, you can handle 256 concurrent requests. On the default account, you need to raise it. That's not great. Yeah. Oh, wow. And if you run out, okay, then they start getting queued.

Wow. And in the same time, you can, you know, oh, wait a second, I can spawn 10,000 lambdas. Okay, wait a second. I can run 10,000 concurrent requests on a single machine on Fargate, and it's significantly better performance. And, but very interesting, they don't ship scale to zero on Fargate, and it's significantly better performance, but very interesting, they don't ship scale to zero on Fargate.

Sorry, I'm just calling out the AWS bad marketing strategy to sabotage the industry, but that's there to make more money, which is great for them. Well, to just remind everybody, youtube.com slash changelog. Videos, shorts, youtube.com slash changelog. Yes. Videos, shorts, clips. We now have the podcasts tab there. I'm not sure what's going on there.

What's happening with the podcast tabs? How does this work? They're like halfway adopted podcasts, and they think a few of our playlists are podcasts, even though they're not. They're clips from podcasts. So it's just a hot mess. And that tab, I just would ignore it i

don't think anybody knows that tab exists because that's how youtube rolls you know they roll out features and they don't do anything else with them the occasional poll which is good like backslashes for or against yeah we'll we'll do our unpop polls there every once in a while but uh a good place to consume if you just want clips if you're just uh if you're overwhelmed with the feed and you're like, man, I want to unsubscribe. Not because I hate it, because I just can't keep up. Check out YouTube. Keep up on the small. Okay, here comes Skalk's BMC Remix.

So it's super hard, but I'm going to give it a try. I'll start with... That was pretty darn sweet. And then... Just a couple of quick ones. And then... That was pretty cool. Last but certainly not least, it is Tillman Jax.

Hello, everyone. Thank you for another excellent year. I would give my favorite episodes as Story Time with Steve Yeager, Pushing Back on Unconstrained Capitalism, which was with Cory Doctorow. And I forget the name of the guest, but the episode was Dear Red Hat and also The Death of Physical Media.

I really, really love all the episodes, really, to be perfectly honest, that you guys put out. But it's incredible value to have the episodes that I've mentioned, which are not really talking about the technical side of things. It's more the impact that they have on the world as we know it. Looking at the past, present and future and how that all intertwines with how we're currently moving with what we do technically.

Incredible value, incredible guests, presented excellently. So very much looking forward to 2024. Thanks again. Thank you. That's what we like to say, Jared, that we care about the past, the present,

and the future hacker generation. That includes us too, right? Like the impact I think is, I like how he framed it. I haven't been thinking of it that way necessarily, but that's obviously the way it plays out is what is the impact of this change, this way of thinking, this way of doing business, this allowance of X, Y, or Z to operate this way. And we the people have the power to push back through our choices.

And we the people of purveyor of podcasts have the power to push back via voice and to potentially amass an army to rethink how they think about the world. I think that's what I love most about the medium of podcasting and just even how we help brands and sponsors is like, we get to plant some ideas, change some ideas. You know what I mean? That to me is the fun part about what we do. Totally. I mean, I love to get a new idea from somebody or someplace. It's just a way of looking at the world that I had never had previously looked at it that way.

Or to find a new tool that saves me five minutes a day or anything like that where you're just like, okay, this was worth it. And it's shrouded in an hour and a half conversation that hopefully is a fun ride regardless. Entertain first, but then also educate through exposure to the way other people think, the things other people spend their time working on. I mean, a lot of the things that we talk about in terms of the tech is like, we're amazed that you've decided to dedicate your life to working on this.

Like, we think that you should be able to tell your story to people because your desire to, for instance, build a brand new programming language that's going to last 100 years is worth other people knowing about. Like, where does that come from? And so I love hearing that kind of stuff from other people, and so I love to be able to provide that for other people through our interviews and through our conversations. So it's fun. It's good. Good vibes. Thanks, Tillman. Of course, he's called him before. We always appreciate hearing from you. Very insightful, very thoughtful. And we appreciate you being a member of the community. Here is your BMC Remix. Past.

Present. Past. Present. Future. Future. So, very much looking forward to 2024. Mm-hmm. That was a very BMC ending to that one. Very much, yeah.

Reminds me of the George Orwell's famous quote. Says, who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. Who controls the present controls the past. That's from 1984. Kind of a glum movie, really. But not really a glum movie. I mean, it's not a rom-com, okay? It's not a comedy.

Let's just say. Yeah. That's actually a quote, too, from Alta. There's a band, I would say a group called Alta. A little lower than the angels is what it stands for, Alta. There's a band, I would say a group called Alta. A little lower than the angels is what it stands for, Alta. And those lyrics or those words, who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present, who controls the past, is on there. Kind of reminds me of that That sentiment You know Yeah That is a deep thought

Alright Thus concludes our listener Voicemails I told ya There'd be a lot of good stuff in there Okay hold up Hold up Hold up

Remember earlier I said we had a 12th voicemail come in after adam and i had recorded together well i'm not going to tell you who it was that shipped their feature to production on a friday after the rest of us had taken off for the weekend but i will play his voicemail for us. I'd absolutely say that this year, the changelog has been the best so far. We've got so many more, so many more different game shows, which have been so much fun. There's been a lot of really,

really great interviews. I don't have time to go through all of them. There's been some really good episodes across all the different podcasts. According to Podcast Addict, my podcast platform, I've listened to ChangeLog for five days and 16 hours, which given I also listen to my podcast at like 1.8 times,

is like a lot of time. ChangeLog helps me while I'm cooking, while I walk the dog, even while I'm doing bits of housework. So it is like a key part of my life and I will often prioritize it over other podcasts because just the sheer quality, quantity of great things that you're always putting out,

which is why it's also the first year that I've been using Change.com Plus and absolutely love it. It is better. It's better. Another couple of highlights this year are the CubeCon episode. Not necessarily just for the talks and the people we spoke to, but it was just great hearing you all laughing.

In a room, just having a great time. That's one thing that really brought a smile to my face. The other key great thing this year are a couple of chats you've had with chris brando his mind is absolutely brilliant i always learn a ton when he's on whether it's on go time or the couple of times you've had him on his own and really love that so really looking forward to what is happening and what is coming over the next year. And yeah, thanks very much everyone. And thank you, Jamie.

I'm just razzing you about the late entry better late than never. It does feel a bit weird commenting too much now without Adam here, but thank you for the kind words. Thank you for supporting us this year with a changelog plus plus membership. I'm glad you agree. It's better. And here is your personalized BMC remix. You decide. Is it better?

I am a poker static. I'd absolutely say that I often prioritize ChangeLog over cooking, over my life. I don't have time to walk the dog this year. So it is like a lot. I've listened to ChangeLog for five days at a time in a room, just laughing, having a great time. And yeah, really looking forward to what is happening over the next year. Thanks very much, everyone. I'm going to come out and say pretty much all my favorite episodes

have been taken already. Yeah. I have two that didn't get taken. So I don't want to just mention those. I got two. I got at least one. Let me see if I got one. Well, let's talk about ours

that weren't discussed previously. Oh, I got two. Well, one is from title only, but also I like the content. Another Kaizen edition. It was slightly more two. Well, one is from title only, but also I like the content. Another Kaizen edition. It was slightly more instant. I just think that was a really cool title for the podcast.

Slightly more instant. How could you get slightly more instant? That's the fun part there. And then, of course, it wouldn't be a 2023 without this podcast, honestly. And this was a recommend. This was a recommendation Attack of the Canaries

bang that was a good one and the bang was actually the exclamation point at the end of that one that's another fun one to name too it's like you know obviously from the Star Wars trilogy and you know world I suppose

well Attack of the Clones was episode two or I can't remember. Yeah. I think episode two was Attack of the Clones. Yeah. With the exclamation mark. But this was Harun Mir from Thinkst. From Thinkst. And you couldn't say Thinkst.

You kept saying Thinkest and having to apologize. Oh, my gosh. You know, once your brain gets stuck on something, you know, at least my brain gets stuck on something. That's what it is. Yeah. I have a friend of mine whose name is Josh and a friend of his that I only know through him. His name is Paul. And I keep calling Paul Josh.

And sometimes I call Josh Paul. Oh, goodness. It's messed up, man. And I know their names. How are you going to fix that? I just don't. I just keep saying to fix that? I just don't. I just keep saying I'm sorry. I just don't.

I just keep trying. You're just going to perpetually apologize? Yeah, pretty much. Actually, today we were texting in the LOL. He's like, I think you mean Paul. I'm like, yes, exactly. And he just LOL'd. He's used to it by now.

Well, the two that I'll mention, because all the rest have been mentioned. Well, real quickly, I'll mention some that have been. So Storytime with Steve Yegge was also one of my favorites. Somebody mentioned that. Of course, Cameron said we've already covered. Cory Doctorow we've covered. One that I'll mention, we've heard the Matt Reier jingles bit. Get With Your Friends is one of your favorite titles.

That was actually one of my favorite episodes because, A, it was the first time we got Matt to sing live on the show, like to improv sing. Two, it was actually the thing that gave us the confidence to do Change Dog and Friends because that was our hidden Change Dog and Friends format inside of the Change Dog regular show. This was our prototype. That's right. And people liked it so much that I was like, okay, they're going to like whatever else we do as long as we're on point. And so that's why I like it because it was a prototype for also the other Matt Reier episodes, which are always my favorite because the guy just makes me laugh endlessly with his little quips and his non sequiturs and then his songs.

So get with your friends. And then the other one that I'll mention is bringing Whisper and Llama to the masses. Talk about people who are dedicated to a particular craft. Georgi Gerganov, the work that he's doing on that specifically, allowing people to run Whisper and Llama and continuing to hack on it on commodity hardware is really, I think, Yeoman's work. And I think that so many people are going to benefit by being able to run models on their own commodity hardware without having to shell out and bend the knee to big tech companies. So I like talking with him. He's very smart, very humble.

And I think that episode was an awesome one because we got to shine a light on the work he's doing. Yeah, man. I concur. Those are good selections, man. Good selections. What else can we cover? What's next? What's new and what's next?

What's coming? What's left? Well, not much. Not much is left, but what's coming down the pipeline? We've already talked a little bit.

More of the same. More beats. More talk shows. Continued interviews. You have a few specific ideas. We have a few shows planned, but not much, honestly, for the new year. Always open

to requests. What are you thinking? You know, I don't know. I think I've said all I can say. It's so odd to be at the end of a podcast and have said it all. Do you think there's anything left we can say for our Plus Plus folks? Is there one more voicemail?

Or is there... Can we just make something up like no there's no more voicemails that's it we played them all no i played all the voicemails well that would be my only thought would be a little bonus for our plus plus folks is there is there a little sizzle at the end just for our best friends you know that would be it what we can say is that in 2024 we are bringing one of our old shows back, and we will tell you what that show is on the Changelog++ members-only feed. Oh, boy.

It's better. There's a tease for you. Or, I mean, if you don't want to directly support our work, no problemo, guys. We're cool either way. Just hang out until we make the announcement. You'll find out. That right that's right but if you're uh insider stay tuned for some more inside changelog i think i would love to see more plus plus members next year not because of the monetary support by any means but because i think it truly gives us a

chance to not rely deeply and i suppose that is monetary but not rely deeply, and I suppose that is monetary, but not rely deeply on only ad dollars. Like this is a sponsored podcast. So I think that that has become more and more challenging, though I think we still find folks who value deeply what we do. Thankfully, I'd love to see more people in Slack. You know, nothing makes me more happier than waking up to like, just good conversations to catch up on or take part in, in Slack. You know, nothing makes me more happier than waking up to like just good conversations

to catch up on or take part in in Slack. So, if you haven't joined that, as Jared said before in the show, it is free.

changelog.com slash community. It will always be free. I don't think we'll, I mean, I've gotten in trouble before by making long-term, long-term guarantees.

Haven't I? Should I say it's always going to be free? Will it never not be free? We don't know the future. What if we desperately need that money? I don't think we will, but I don't know. I don't know.

Okay, so it's free for now. Just say it's free. You don't have to put times on it. It has been free since the beginning of it until this moment. So it's a good chance that it will remain free, let's say. Oh, yeah. Based upon past trend, future trend suggests.

It's like a 99% chance. But we just don't want to go out making promises to people. I know. Well, you know. Unless we keep them. Okay. Well, for now, everybody, come in Slack. It is free for now.

That sounds like you better get in here quick before we change our mind. No, just again, I love to see people in there. I love to see people connecting. I think it's a place that is safe to hang out in. There's nobody arguing in there. There's obviously opposing sides sometimes to different conversations, but it's never been anything we've had to personally moderate by any means whatsoever.

So if you're looking for a place to just hang out with people like you, that's a good spot. So if you want that, do that. It's free for now. There you go. Otherwise, plus plus. It's better. And we'll talk to you again in 2024. Bye y'all.

All right. That is it. 2023 is in the bag. Can you believe it? If you have ideas, requests, or anything at all you'd like to say, leave us a comment. We love hearing from you. There's a link in your show notes to the discussion thread for this episode. Thanks again to each and every one of you

who left us a voicemail. So cool. So cool. I hope you enjoy your BMC remix. The podcast wouldn't be the same without you. And thanks one last time to you, our listener,

for listening to our shows this year. We literally wouldn't be able to keep putting out this stuff if y'all weren't listening. So thank you. And a huge thanks to everyone on our team and in the Changelog community for everything you do. You know who you are, but still, I'll name a few names.

BMC, of course, our editors, Jason and Brian, of course, Alexandru on transcripts, Gerard, of course, our friends and panelists on JS Party, GoTime, Practical AI, all our pods. Y'all are awesome. To our longtime partners, Fastly, Fly, and TypeSense. There are many more people we could thank,

but hey, we're already an hour and 45 minutes in, so I'll let you go. That's all for now, but let's get back together and talk a lot more next year. Thank you. you