The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source - Turn him into a walrus (Friends)

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

Jerod turns Adam into Lego, a Walrus, and a Walrus in the style of Studio Ghibli...and so much more. This is a good one to watch on YouTube.

What's up friends? This is changelog and friends. Your weekly talk show about awesome internet memes. Big thank you to our friends and our sponsors, partners, all that good stuff over at fly.io. You can learn more at fly.io. Okay, let's walrus. Well, friends, I'm here with Scott Deaton,

CEO of Augment Code. Augment is the first AI coding assistant that is built for professional software engineers and large code bases. That means context aware, not novice, but senior level engineering abilities. Scott flex for me, who are you working with? Who's getting real value from using Augment Code? So we've had the opportunity to go into hundreds of customers over the course of the past year and show them how much more AI could do for them.

Companies like Lemonade, companies like Codem, companies like Lineage and Webflow. All of these companies have complex code bases. If I take Codem, for example, they help their customers modernize their e-commerce infrastructure. They're showing up and having to digest code they've never seen If I take Kodim, for example, they're showing up and having to digest code they've never seen before in order to go through and make these essential changes to it. We cut their migration time in half that they need to perfect and update in order to take advantage of their new features.

And that work gets done dramatically more quickly and predictably as a result. Okay, that sounds like not novice, right? Sounds like senior level engineering abilities. Sounds like serious coding ability required from this type of AI to be that effective. 100%. You know, these large code bases,

when you've got tens of millions of lines in a code base, you're not going to pass that along as context to a model, right? That is, would be so horrifically inefficient. Being able to mine the correct subsets of that code base in order to deliver AI insight to help tackle the problems at hand. How much better can we make software? How much wealth can we release and productivity can we improve if we can deliver on the promise of all these feature gaps and tech debt? AIs love to add code into existing software. Our dream is an AI that wants to delete code,

make the software more reliable rather than bigger. I think we can improve software quality, liberate ourselves from tech debt and security gaps and software being hacked and software being fragile and brittle. But there's a huge opportunity to make software dramatically better. But it's going to take an AI that understands your software, not one that's a novice. Well friends, Augment taps into your team's collective knowledge, your code base, your

documentation, dependencies, the full context. You don't have to prompt it with context. It just knows ask it the unknown unknowns and be surprised. It is the most context aware developer AI that you can even tap into today. So you won't just write code faster. You'll build smarter. It is truly an ask me anything for your code. It's your deep thinking buddy.

It is your stay in flow antidote. And the first step is to go to augmentcode.com. That's A-U-G-M-E-N-T-C-O-D-E.com. Create your account today. Start your free 30 day trial. No credit card required. Once again, augmentcode.com. First link in the show notes. Oh, it's an entire chapter.

We talked about it for two minutes and 28 seconds at least probably also in here, probably in here. I recommend Minbrowser. You said sounds promising. I said, yeah. And then you said at least by name. And then remember cause perplexity pointed me to it. and then Minbrowser, you said sounds promising. I said yeah, and then you said at least my name. And then, remember because Perplexity pointed me to it?

Is that what you're using now? And I'm like yeah, it is. And they're like, is this a reveal? And I said yeah, it's a big reveal, Minbrowser. Oh my gosh, I love this. It is cool, and I like it's up to date and maintained well. You just kept going on and on about it. I'm thinking maybe I'm talking to Adam's any right now.

Wait. Because we mostly work together. I mean we kind of are always just. Yeah. We're the innies. We're the two innies talking to each other. Yeah maybe a min browser. Let me see.

Let me see. You don't remember the min browser? It's this minimal browser that I found that I was gonna use. I do believe I recall. While I screen shared during our recordings, which is exactly what I'm doing right now. Oh my gosh.

And so I said, can you see Min? I still think it looks promising. Okay, I just didn't download it. If you just reread the transcript. I'm very happy with Safari. I love Safari too. I just use Min specifically for this one use case and here we are. What's the use case?

We're frenzing together. Share in my screen while we friends. So there's minimal Chrome. Minimal Chrome. Is this bringing you back? Are you remembering this or you still got nothing? I'm with you now, I'm tracking fully. I'm up to what they call up to date.

Up to date. Awesome. Well, have you heard any of the hubbub around OpenAI's new image capabilities? ChatGPT, new image creation abilities. You know, I'm constantly just kind of peeling back the top layer from that fire hose called AI stuff or announcements. And I recall hearing about this, I gotta say I've been away a little bit,

I had my brother in town, so I just ejected from the news, let's just say. But I do pay attention always, as you know. So I heard about it, but I didn't play with it yet. You haven't played with it yet. All right, well there's a couple aspects to this particular story. First you have the advancement of the tooling itself

inside JetGBT. I would say that, you know I've been switching over to Lama, I've been using DeepSeq, I'm trying to use these other models, local LLMs. But every time I leave I feel like OpenAI just pulls me back in. Like ChatGPT's got this tractor beam around it, and they're really, I think, developing,

I don't know if it's a moat, but maybe it's a habit for me to where eventually Google just won because you're just gonna go to google.com because that's what you do. It's pulling me back in, and this new image capability's pulled me back in big time. But there's also like a IP angle to this,

copyright, et cetera, stealing from artists. There's I think a coding angle that I can at least draw out. But first let me say that recently, probably while you were away, OpenAI announced some crazy new capabilities inside of chat GPT specifically around image generation. And I will just say it's super compelling. It's like really good.

And you haven't played with this yet? No, I have not. All right. Do you have a file? I do have a file. Let me show it to you. Those who are watching along, you'll see this and the others will add show notes links. This is a temporary chat. This is not going. They're not keeping this.

I have a temporary chat. I don't want this in my history. Yeah, this is going It's gonna get dirty. Come on now. I've dropped an image of you into chat GPT. This is you standing in front of a golf club it seems. Yes, we were golfing. Wearing a Callaway hat.

Now this is an HEIC file because I'm not sure why, because that's what you gave me. I'm not sure if chat GPT is going to like it or not, but I'm going to ask it to transform you into something. Now I'm going to step on Lego's copyright. I think, I don't know. And say, uh, turn him into a Lego character and we'll get that going. Now it is slower, but it's kind of cool how it does it now. This is not an ad, by the way.

Maybe that'll be a conversation for later. OpenAI's never giving us a dollar. They should, but they don't. They have lots of dollars, I hear. But they've changed the way they do this to where now it's like this top to bottom phase in kind of thing, where they're going like pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom, which is of thing where they're going like pixel by pixel left to right top to

bottom which is cool because it kind of like I mean this just takes a long time but they are changing it or they are demonstrating it in a way that you kind of like to watch along while it does its modifications however it's just getting started so we're going to have to talk for a while this is a large h e i s h eIC file. Let me tell you what else happened in the wake of this. So, they made this announcement and somebody very quickly realized that you can say things like, take this picture and make the people in it into Studio Ghibli style, or Studio Ghibli, if you prefer. Are you familiar with the Miyazaki movies? School me, Jared.

Okay, gosh, this is like- Catch me all the way up to all the things. Jared takes Adam to school. Studio, it's controversial, whether it's Ghibli or Ghibli. Okay. And in fact, the creator, you know, it's like GIF and GIF. Normally I'd come down on the Ghibli or Ghibli. Okay. And in fact, the creator, you know, is like GIF and GIF. Normally I'd come down on the Ghibli side because I don't acknowledge GIF as a file format.

But the creator, I think, is cool with either way. So whatever you wanna call it. Studio Ghibli or Ghibli is a animation studio. Okay, let's go Ghibli or Ghibli is an animation studio. Okay, let's go Ghibli. Headed up by Miyazaki, who's a Japanese animator, filmmaker, et cetera, an artist. And they've had some amazing movies spirited away, probably the most popular.

Where's the actual list of movies here? Feature films right there. Oh, I'm in it. I just couldn't see. All I was reading was Japanese names. Yes, the left column. Castle in the Sky, okay. My Neighbor Totoro, what are the good ones?

Princess Mononoke, Spirit of the Way is most popular. Howl's Moving Castle, tons of good movies. You've probably seen none of these because you have to kind of search them out. Yeah, I'm not. But specifically, the art style is let's go to images. So they've created a very well known style, style, very anime. And somebody found out that you can say, make this picture in Studio

Ghibli style and it just does it and the results are kind of amazing. Yeah they're really good. You should have Ghibli'd me. Well I didn't want to Ghibli you I wanted to try something else. Okay. But of course this caused a huge copyright kerfuffle because hey if it can just make Studio Ghibli style pictures that means they basically just went out and trained it on all the Studio Ghibli stuff. They had no permission to do that. Are they style pictures. That means they basically just went out and trained it on all the Studio Ghibli stuff. They had no permission to do that.

Are they gonna sue? Is this immoral? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Immoral, gosh. Well what happened was everybody started turning everything into Studio Ghibli style. Imagine a famous picture. Imagine all the memes.

Every meme got turned into, yes, like you name it. Trump. And people were, of course. Who else, Elon Musk, is he still famous? Elon Musk, I'm sure. It happened to him. It happened to, remember the girl in the foreground of the house that's burning down

and she's got that look on her? Like every single meme got converted god the style with them is an hours and so it's kind of a joyous moment on the internet because everybody forgot their troubles and just said what if everything was studio Ghibli style and Then the world would be great, and then it was great for a few short hours Okay, TIL disasteraster Girl Real Story. Check this out, folks in Zulip, in the general channel. TIL Disaster Girl Real Story. We will just talk right over this.

Okay, what's happening here? So, one of the other things that happened in the wake of this is Sam Altman's like, hey guys, our computers are on fire here. Stop using this like crazy. And everything slowed down and things started to fail. I'm trying to get you an example, however, at the current time it's failing.

So that makes for great audio. I'll try it into a Lego character, see if that one works. Maybe they've put an outlaw on Studio Ghibli for now. Well, while it does that, there is a little thread there linking out to a closing the loop story on the little girl who is the disaster girl. This YouTube channel which I have become a fan of called Buzzfeed Video, gosh ever of that? And she accidentally became a meme. So it went to the backstores. Have you ever wanted to know who's that girl?

No, Jared, not your, who's that girl? And I knew you were thinking that. As soon as I said it, I knew you were thinking that. Of course, is that the who? What do you mean the who? Who sings that song, who's that girl? I don't know. Is that the who?

Is it the who? It's not even who's that girl? It's ooh, that girl. The smell. Oh, is it ooh, that girl? Ooh, ooh, that smell. Oh, yeah. My gosh.

You just crossed two paths, but I'm chasing you now. Yes. Is it that smell? It's literally skinnered. And the lyric is, ooh, that smell. For some reason, we both went to who's that girl. That was amazing. Well, I went to Who's That Girl because of your show.

What's it called again? What's my show? Your favorite show, man, ever. Princess Bride? New Girl. Oh, New Girl. Yeah, it's Jess. Oh, yes.

It's Jess. Who's that girl? Who's that girl? It's Jess. That's a completely different tone, but. It's that girl. Who's that girl? It's Jess. That's a completely different tone, but. Totally. Fair enough. Well, I'm saying if you're playing the game,

who's that girl? Guess what happens. Got you. You find out who that girl is and she's a meme now. She was a meme and she still is a meme. What if you're playing the game? What's that smell? Oh, man.

Then you say, what do you say then? What do you think this song was about? This, ooh, that smell. That's what I wanna go to. Oh, death? And you say, what do you say then? What do you think this song was about this, ooh that smell, that's what I wanna go to. Oh, death, isn't it the smell of death? Let's check out on one of my favorite websites, genius.com, where people annotate lyrics. Oh man.

Yeah, here's the chorus, ooh that smell, can't you smell that smell, ooh that smell, the smell of death surrounds you. So the smell is death, Adam, the smell is death. This is a dark song. I know. It's got coke in there and smoke in there and death in there.

Drinking like fools. Like total, is this image generated yet or not? It says it's created, but it's just utterly failing us. I'm thinking it's your browser, man. In a whole new screen, just go do it elsewhere, off screen. See what happens. I'm gonna do it off screen. Expose us to the Jared world.

This Inuit we've created. I wanna show you how good this is. In the meantime, I do have a software development angle into this particular event. Here's my software development take. So, gosh, this is really good. Like, it's a step change from the previous version. In fact, people were comparing this

to like the Apple emoji stuff, like the Apple genmoji stuff, where it will generate you things. There's a great one as a comparison, maybe I can find it for the show notes, where it's like, here's ChatGPT 4.0, whatever new stuff. Make me a picture of the main Severance characters, here's ChachiPT 4.0, whatever new stuff. Make me a picture of the main Severance characters, the four main Severance people as Legos,

and then the exact same prompt to Apple Intelligence, and it's like night and day. I mean, the open AI one is just like so good. Just smears their face with the ooze of goodness. It is. And it's so good just smears their face with The ooze of goodness it is and it's so good that you're like, I'm sorry Illustrators, you know, like I'm sorry You creative people out there. Oh It's just happening and it's happening right before our eyes and now you can see my software development

crossover angle into this it's happening right before our eyes. And now you can see my software development crossover angle into this, it's like. I'm sorry developers. We're getting there. It's happening right now. It's happening, it's happening. I mean we're two years in plus. And gosh, this has just got so good. Yeah, I mean we did just kind of like

make fun of vibe coding. And then somebody said we didn't, that we said it was good. Well, they might've been talking about my conversation with Amel Hussain, not with you. Okay, so you were misquoting then? I think you misread. I think they were talking about LinkedIn, because I told Amel that LinkedIn is like,

not so bad anymore, and they thought I meant LinkedIn was good. Vibe coding I'm very much ambivalent about. I actually love the term, and I think that as my most famous of my vibe coding memes said, vibe shipping is really the problem. Vibe coding's totally cool.

It's when you ship that into production that it gets hairy and gnarly. However, somebody just posted something on Hacker News yesterday, iVibed coded a 35,000 lines of code app, a recipe app, with pretty impressive results. I mean, that's a large code base compared to what lots of folks have been putting out there. This is Tom Blomfield who says,

over the last two to three weeks, I vibe coded the recipe app that I always wish existed. RecipeNinja.ai. It now includes a fully interactive voice assistant so you don't need to get your dirty hands over your new iPad when you're cooking. So, I mean, kind of a cool app. Here's his background.

I'm a startup founder turned investor. I taught myself bad PHP in 2000 and picked up Ruby on Rails in 2011. I'd guess 2015 was the last time I wrote a line of Ruby professionally. So that's a decade ago. Last month I decided to use Windsurf, which I don't even know what that is,

to build a Rails 8 API backend and React frontend app. I assume Windsurf is like a cursor style thing. Using OpenAI's real-time API for voice-to-voice responses. Over the last few days, I used Cloud Code and Gemini 2.5 Pro for some of the trickier features. 35,000 lines of code later, this is what I built. And they link it up. 35,000 lines of code later, this is what I built. And they link it up and you know, it's a real website with categories, voice search,

cool loading images, looks like they progressively load. And recipe steps, entirely vine coded. So it's not quite, you know, take this image and turn it in the Studio Ghibli, but not bad. Not bad. Now, is it easily hacked? Time won't tell.

It's on the public internet now and it's gotten some attention. Are there any actual inputs besides search? Like how do you create a new recipe? You can sign in with Google, you can start cooking, but where's the third party inputs? Cause that's where rubber hits the road on the internet is like once I have a submit button somewhere,

I don't see any of those, maybe you have to sign in to do that, but how do you create your own recipes? So you know, it's still basic in that way. You think these images are AI generated based on the recipe? I don't know, I mean the first one looks like, cause it's like a Wonder Woman picture. Very boring life cake, the one second row.

Oh, very boring life cake looks It looks like a pound cake maybe. Yeah. I mean, that looks like a pretty awesome cheesecake, non boring cake. I'd eat that thinking about eating it right now. Deepest deep dish pizza. Yeah. These must be AI generated images because this thing looks like it's like a stack of pizzas and it's not real.

Yeah. Yeah. Also probably using that. So I think I I'm hovering in the world of like, it's all plastic. You know that term? It's not real. Yeah, yeah, also probably using that. So I think I'm hovering in the world of like, it's all plastic. You know that term, it's all plastic? No. It's cool.

It's generally derogatory because like you get this nice thing, right? And you expect it to be sturdy and all the things durable to use a recent term. But it's all plastic and it breaks easily. Like, so that's maybe, you know, a take on the, the vibe coding, you know, is that code maintainable by non-human? Maybe you don't care. You know, sometimes zero to one is not the hard part. It's,

it's maintaining one and going to two You know that that's the challenge although I gotta say I agree with you, I think it's it's super cool and It actually leads me. I mean this is sort of off-topic I can riff a second. I Had this this idea Or at least this insight last night. Let me see if I can conjure this

into show material here momentarily. Had some really good ideas last night, I'm gonna share with you. Anyways, anyways, anyways. So I had this idea called the AI layer, where every meaningful application that you touch on the daily, these kind of tools you touch from email to layer something in, we'll have some sort of AI layer to it.

I think MCP is what's really ushering this interface into play, this AI layer to interface with, which means we will begin to truly begin to program our world. So think vibe coding for everyone. I've got home automation around me. At some point, these things will have this, it's already got it, but it's not accessible via this automation.

I would say that's where the AI comes in in is more automation than it is generative. But this AI layer where you can begin to orchestrate your life, you know, that's where I think the next frontier might be. And I think vibe coding is like one layer of this future AI layer we'll live in. future AI layer we'll live in. Well friends, I'm here with a brand new friend of mine, Kyle Galbraith, co-founder and CEO of depo.dev. Your builds don't have to be slow, you know that right. Build faster, waste less time,

accelerate Docker image builds, get up action builds and so much more. So Kyle, we're in the hallway at our favorite tech conference, and we're talking. How do you describe Depot to me? And Depot is a build acceleration platform. The reason we went and built it

is because we got so fed up and annoyed with slow builds for Docker image builds, GitHub action runners. And so we're relentlessly focused on accelerating builds. Today we can make a container image build up to 40 times faster. We can make a GitHub Action Runner up to 10 times faster.

We just rolled out Depot Cache. We essentially bring all of the cache architecture that backs both GitHub Actions and our container image build product, and we open it up to other build tools like Bazel and Turbo repo, SC cache, Gradle, things like that. So now we're starting to accelerate

more generic types of builds and make those three to five times faster as well. And so in simple terms, the way you can think about Depot is it's a build acceleration platform to save you hundreds of hours of build time per week, no matter whether that's build time that happens locally, that's build time that happens in a CI environment. We fundamentally believe that the future we want to build

is a future where builds are effectively near instant, no matter what the build is. We want to get there by effectively rethinking what a build is and turn this paradigm on its head and say, hey, a build can actually be fast and consistently fast all the time. If we build out the compute and the services around that build to actually make it fast

and prioritize performance as a top level entity rather than an afterthought. Yes, okay friends, save your time, get faster builds with Depot, Docker builds, faster get up action runners, and distributed remote caching for Bazel, Go, Gradle, Turbo repo, and more. Depot is on a mission to give you back your dev time

and help you get faster build times with a one line code change. Learn more at depo.dev. Get started with a seven day free trial. No credit card required. Again, depo.dev. Again Depot dot dev. I got chat jpt to do thing. Oh gosh. How did it do? I'm sure screen sharing it. Now. Can you see it? I'm gonna go back to my tab. Let me see. All right, so

picture of you stand in front of a clubhouse with a hat on and glass. That's amazing turn him into a Lego character and The end result is basically exactly that with a hat on and glasses. That's amazing. Turn him into a Lego character. And the end result is basically exactly that. That's uncanny. What do you think? Pretty good, right? That's uncanny. I mean the details are what really gets it

because it's not just- Give me that image as fast as possible. I need to keep that. That's amazing. I want that. Isn't that to you? Isn't that cool? I might become my avatar.

I don't know. Right? I'm sharing with my brother for sure. He's gonna love it. It's just too much fun. I mean, everybody wants themselves to just get turned into, you can do like South Park style, obviously Ghibli style, Lego style. I mean, you imagine it and it will do it for you.

And it's not even hard. I didn't give it like a sophisticated prompt, turn him into a Lego character. Yeah, it was like, how many words is that many words that six seven and the background is was interesting Like it has your original picture has a guy in the background I think he's he's walking out Johnny with the he was gonna rain that day and then in this picture look there's a guy he's going in so it's a little bit different you can notice how the logo on the clubhouse has logo that jacked up this was like a

of the logo on the clubhouse. Falcon head's logo got jacked up a little bit. This was like a Falcon flying. And then in this one, it looks more like an F, but it actually is still the same shape and the same color. Dude, that's actually pretty cool for Falcon head because like the bird's now in an F shape. That's right. Calloway came across.

So like the exact spelling of Calloway is there on your hat. Now you have an under armor. Oh, look at that. You do have under armor on. So it's- Dude, the pitch is even backwards. Under Armour. Oh look at that, you do have Under Armour on. So it's. Dude, the pitch is even backwards, look at that. It's not even, it's in selfie mode.

Well they put it in a better spot for you. Oh that's true, so you're actually in selfie mode. So your Callaway reads backwards. Yes. And the actual generated one reads forward, which is actually preferable too. Yeah, they were like, nah, we can't give them back selfie mode, we gotta give them back straight up mode.

I'm going to put that Under Armour logo, you know, where it fits. It's a that's compelling. I mean, I've been using this nonstop. I just drop stuff in there and tell to do things. And it's just amazing. Oh, my gosh. What is it doing for you? I'm just generating pictures of my kids doing different stuff. Funny stuff.

We have a we have a talent show upcoming at our church. It's actually tomorrow night. And one of the things that is gonna be is a walrus impersonation contest. This is still on the down low, so don't tell anybody this. Because if people find out, it'll ruin the surprise. But I'm taking pictures of these different kids

who are all gonna do a walrus impression, and I'm turning them into walruses using this, I'm gonna show it to them. And they're gonna absolutely just lose it, because they're so funny. Because it pulls across your likeness, but then transforms you into a walrus. Let me do it for you.

How's that even possible? I'm just gonna say turn him into a walrus. Oh. Now this won't be that flattering, but it will be funny. Let's cut this, Jason, let's cut this just in case it goes south here. Let's keep this, Jason. Cut the feed, cut the feed.

If it doesn't go south, cut it. If it goes south, keep it. Keep it no matter what, it's good. All right, so we'll let that generate. Oh, it must have been my min browser versus my Safari browser. It likes it. It was. Maybe it was temporary mode.

Like I can't do temporary mode because I lose some stuff. That we're keeping this. Because this is going right into my stinking history. We're training the future. That's right. I've been turning lots of people into walruses in my chat history.

So chat GBD is already onto me. Well, it's line by lining us here. Let's go back to what you said before, which was private AI is watching. I'm just kidding. It's not watching you. It's actually not watching you. So private AI versus this tractor beam, this gravity, this, this pull back into the open

AI world. Yes. I'm feeling that because here's me wanting to have agency, wanting to, oh my gosh, this is looking cool. Uh, wanting to have this world where like, no, I got my own GPU. Okay. And I got my own models called deep seeking others and I'm running my show. But it's not about, it's not about the billions of parameters in the model or even what the model can generate.

It's the structured output and the utility of the application that makes it useful. And obviously you're not doing this image generation yet in your local LLMs. Right. But they keep delivering features, Claude as well. They keep delivering features that are above the model, like above what the model is trained on

in terms of its knowledge inside. It's like the layering on top that is truly the cherry on top of this pie because I can get, I've compared DeepSeq to Llama 3.2, to Llama 3.3 and waited for a bit and DeepSeq R71 for example, whatever it might be, versus be versus 4o paid model or even o1 or this image generation stuff you're doing versus claude sonnet 35 or 37 i believe and what is haiku is 35 uh and when i compare a prompt that i want to put into these things I get marginally if not dramatically better

Enjoyment and riffing I would say, you know this vibing riffing vibing With the thing because it's it's just got better Output better structured output even if the ideas aren't necessarily better the way it packages it the way it The ideas aren't necessarily better. The way it packages it, the way it bullet lists it, the way it structures the output into an outline. Have you tried to make this thing your task list ever? Like just imagine you being overwhelmed for a moment. Have you been overwhelmed recently?

No. With like your to-do list? Never. Well, when you take a break for a few days, you get overwhelmed a little bit. So I'm like, hey, I gotta come back into work after a few days being totally departed. Here's what's on my mind.

Here's where I gotta get done. Organize this for me. I just talked to it like that. Bam. Oh my gosh, here I'm a Walrus by the way. I just looked down for the first time in a minute. Got your Calloway hat on, got your glasses. You've lost your-

Oh my gosh, dude. You've lost your Under Armour shirt, so Walrus is going commando. But everything else is still the same. Do you think that's me though? Hey, I mean, it's hard. Because you're like, who am I to-

You're like, everything else is the same. As if it's like gonna be me. Well, I mean, it's a Walrus. As close to me as you can get. It's a Walrus, and so it's gonna be a Walrus, but it's gonna try to have, you know, it's got be me. Well, I mean. As close to me as you can get. It's a walrus. And so it's gonna be a walrus, but it's gonna try to have, you know, it's got your eyes.

It's got your nose like that, Jared? It's got your eyes. I mean. My tusks? The tusks are slightly longer. It does have your facial hair. My stubble. Oh my gosh, dude.

And it's holding the camera. It's selfie-ing. It is selfie-ing, absolutely. So just too much fun. Oh, okay. This is good stuff, man. I mean too much fun. Too much fun. Okay. This is good stuff, man. I mean, this is what the internet's made for right here.

I know, that's the thing is like, I'm sympathetic to the artists and I feel bad, but I'm also sympathetic to us developers and feel I'm gonna feel bad as it continues to go away from us. But gosh, this is good stuff. I mean, it's just too much fun. This is what you didn't see my Indiana Pacers thing

in recent Change.org news because you didn't listen this week. But this week, no. And this isn't even new. I just came across this. It happened last year, but it's kind of something that I'm into right now, which I'm calling joyous use of tech. It's like, let's use technology to bring joy to people.

And at Indiana Pacers games, you know the Jumbotron and they show like different things, right? The kiss cam and all this stuff that happens during the breaks. Well, this is at a Pacers versus Lakers game. And whoever's on the Jumbotron, they put this crying filter, like just standard like Snapchat filters, right?

Over the Lakers fans faces. And so they'll zoom in on some Lakers fans, but they'll replace their face with a crying filter and it just looks like they're crying. And it's absolutely hilarious. Everyone's laughing, even the person who's getting their face covered up with a crying face. And the fact that they start to laugh, it actually looks like they're like sobbing and convulsing.

And so it kind of compounds the effect. And I just I just highlighted that on Change.log news because it's like, let's use software to bring each other joy, you know, and this for me, turning people into walruses or anything else I think of, I can imagine. It's just so much fun. Oh my gosh, this walrus is uncanny. I mean, it's just, I can't believe it. Now I'm not sure which one I want more, the Lego version or the Walrus version.

Well, you still haven't done the... Do the Ghibli one. I'll do the Ghibli one. Let's round it out with a Ghibli, close it there. So a recent conversation in our general chat, by the way, general is now public. So, uh, look out all of our chats are now public on changelog.zulipchat.com. So you can read them along without even signing up.

There was a cool idea coming from Brian Douglas about doing some revisits or some catch up chats. We definitely done catch up episodes, but not very many. And there's so many episodes that go back. In fact, Brian was suggesting that we could revisit the rise of IOJS, number 139. And I got to thinking, well, IOJS doesn't exist anymore. It got merged back into the node.

And so there's nothing to revisit. And then he also suggested hoodie, no backend, offline first, episode 111. And I was like, I don't think any of that's very relevant anymore. And then he mentioned exorcism. So like, what if we caught up with the exorcism folks? That one still exists.

It's still out there. It's just run by different people and so we don't know them anymore. It was Katrina Owen back when we had her on the show. She's still involved. I don't think so. I'm pretty sure she is. Okay, well she's not running the show anymore.

I know that. Anywho, it's tough sometimes because a lot of these things just don't exist anymore and that got me thinking about some of our earlier episodes. Right, I'm not gonna go on this. And where are they now? Ooh, you said it. Where are they now?

So I thought it'd be fun for us to just go through a few early episodes of the changelog and just figure out where are they now? Where are they now? What's up with the project? Is it still a thing? Et cetera, because so many things have come and gone or changed form over the years.

And the very first episode was about Hamill, Sass, and Compass. Where are they now? Where's Hamill, where's Sass, and where is Compass? Any thoughts? Well, Hamil is still there apparently. Hamil still has a website. Hamil is a templating language for Ruby.

This is very much our Ruby roots coming out as we go back to our first episodes because a lot of it's in the Ruby community. It's basically a way of- So much cleaner, right? Look at that, how beautiful it was. Yes, making cleaner templates. What a dramatic shift.

And the website still exists, copyright 2006 to 2023. Does that give you any hints? That's a couple years dated, yeah. And it's a couple years dated. So if you look at the latest version of Haml, 6.3.0, and you click around and find out when that actually shipped, it was back in 2023. So there is a commit four months ago.

So not like forever ago dead, but last released December, 2023. So certainly not super active anymore. What about? SAS SAS yes SAS of course I don't use SAS anymore CSS with superpowers you were big into this one right you even have the SAS way comm didn't you? Oh the SAS way comm It was good John I just talked about this like super briefly in that front end with friends

Episode John W long, by the way. Yes, this was really the first open source project that really got me. Into, I would say more open source. I did some libraries around it that are obviously dead now to me and some others may be still using them, but yeah, SAS was really cool because CSS was static, obviously, and generating CSS with SAS was cool. I think largely though, most of the features that I enjoyed in SAS now exist in CSS proper,

or Tailwind has abstracted those things to make me feel like they're CSS native tooling. And forgive me, because I just don't do any front end work unless it's got tailwind involved. I just prefer it. So, yeah. So SAS looks like it is still maintained. It says here, SAS has been actively supported for over 18 years by its

loving core team. So props to them for that. They're even as a mastodon account, which tells me that, you know, relatively new. Yeah. Copyrights there, 2025. Copyright as of this year, SAS on GitHub, but there's still active commits going on. Here's SAS slash SAS.

Three days ago, dependent bot at least. Can't tell you the status of this though. You know, like what does this mean? Cause there was always the S, CSS and SAS world. I think SAS, this is similar to Haml, just went away. Yeah. This is specifically the SAS library slash executables that I think were written in Ruby,

and then were eventually rewritten in JavaScript to be NPM installed versus RVM installed or GEM installed. And so yeah, I think SAS is these are, installed versus like RVM installed or gem installed. And so yeah, I think SAS is, these are, I think all these are successful projects. They just, like you said, kind of got brought into the web platform for a certain, in a certain way. Hamill did, but SAS certainly did.

Compass was even more specific, right? Compass was all about, oh look at that, Compass is now, the domain's been taken over. I may be getting malware as we speak. Oh my gosh, get out of there, man. So this is no longer. Abort, abort.

And we should probably remove that link from our stuff, which reminds me, YouTube's been hitting us up with all kinds of takedowns because some of our old links on old episodes now point to domains which have malware on them. Maybe we should do some sort of a link scanner that goes through and checks those links and changes them. It goes to archive.org. I don't know a lot of work, but when you maintain a website that points at things for this, you know, 2009 till now, eventually some of those links are gonna rot.

Oh yeah, a lot of rot going on there. So that's episode one, you know, a mixed bag. Episode two was the original changelog weekly, so that's not really even a. It's not even, oh gosh. Episode three was about the Go programming language. Where's this gone? So that was very much relevant. Rob Pike, episode three.

Mm-hmm. We all know where Go is now. All of us do. Episode four is a half hour conversation, probably just with you and Wynne, about Chrome OS, Thor, and Roar. Do you know what these are? You didn't even know what Minbrowser was after a few weeks. No, Thor, I know what Thor is.

Thor was some sort of deployment tool, was a lot like like make no rake Rake yeah, it was like that. Yeah, it was Ruby or loads web roar It's hard to tell Jerry where you land none of these tabs are loading Thor was Broken links y'all. Created Ember. Who's that fella? What's his name?

Oh yeah. Um, Wycats. Yehuda. Oh no. Oh, Yehuda Kast created Ember. Yehuda Kast, yes. That's what I just said. You said Wycats.

That's his handle. Then I said Yehuda K Cats. Oh, my bad. I was thinking, when you said that, I was thinking the dude that aborted on Ruby. What was his name? Wy the Lucky Stiff. For whatever reason, you said Wycats. Gotcha.

I thought Wy the Lucky Stiff, so my bad. Yeah, Wy the Lucky Stiff aborted on the entire internet. And now he's just happy. Jeremy Ashinkus, I mean Ashkenas. Yeah, Ashken5 was Jeremy Ashkenas, or Ashkenas. Document Cloud. Ashinkus. And underscore.js. Dude, I loved underscore.js.

Yes. So much. It was the way for a very long time. It was. Looks like it very long time. It was. Looks like it's still actively maintained. 286 contributors, stuff going on. I mean. Like who's using this though? Nine months ago.

Legacy apps that just haven't installed already and they're just not gonna, why would you do like rip it out? Might as well just use it. Yeah, I guess so. It works. I don't think anybody's installing it today, but you know, jQuery's still on like 75% of websites. And so those who don't know, underscore.js

is a utility belt library, where alongside the dollar sign for jQuery, the underscore was how you access all of these fun functional functions, like map, reduce, filter, et cetera. You almost said fun, fun, map reduce filter etc. I said fun fun fun. I did. Fun fun function, remember that show?

Was that a throwback? Yeah, I mean it was an accidental one but yes. I dig that. Did you see that it was the commercial support is offered by Tidelift? Didn't they get acquired recently? Tidelift did get acquired but I don't remember by whom or any of the details.

What the details are of that that that's cool. I mean You know as you're going through these links and stuff I was just thinking like is is Hamill an attack factor is underscore an attack factor And you get these older popularized like you said legacy still being used so maybe under the radar so to, whenever it comes to maintenance and just oversight from the developers, allowing them to be dependencies, like is there a type vector there?

I think there definitely could be. I'm not saying that there is. Haml obviously is going to be rendering user-generated content on some websites, as it's a templating engine that oftentimes will render something that somebody entered. So there could be a tag vector there if you could find some way of exploiting it.

And then underscore is going to be loading up in people's browsers and you can obviously check it. Do a lot there. You can do stuff there, yeah. So I would say yes, but also mature software, underscore has 30 open issues to this day. Most of them are probably people asking like, hey, is this gonna?

Breaking changes. Is this gonna be updated anytime soon? Et cetera. All right, how about one more? Last one, last one. Ooh gosh. Mongo DB episode cool seven Mongo still going strong, right? I mean they're publicly traded company aren't they? Yeah What's that's seven?

This is episode seven. Yeah, I can go to that right now Mongo DB love by developers Tenjoh was the company model came out of Mm-hmm be NoSQL run quickly. Well friends, I love Notion because Notion lets me do everything I want in a single application that lets me invite others to get involved in those organizational workflows, processes, collaboration, whatever you want to call it, right? The cool thing that I love most about Notion is that you can make it your own, meaning you can make operating systems, workflows, you know, processes, standard operating procedures, the way you do things, the way you work, the way statuses work for you.

And I don't mean that you got to build this thing yourself from the ground up. No, everything is for the most part, push button templateable. But you can start from somewhere and end up somewhere else that fits your model. For me, I could be in the middle of doing something, thinking how I could add one more property or one more status to the flow. I'm doing things and make the change in real time while doing the work to enable the future work I'm doing to be better, to be easier, to fit me. That's why Notion is cool.

And if you're not using Notion, well, now is the time to do it because there is no shortage of the way AI has helped many, many people. I love Notion AI. Notion for me is big. A lot of stuff in my workspace, I've got a personal one, I've got one for the change log,

and all these things fit into different places in my personal life, the way I personally use Notion. But Notion AI lets me search across everything in one single AI interface, and it's the coolest. But being able to combine your notes, docs, projects, all the things you want to do into a single space that's simply beautiful, easy to use,

well designed on all the platforms, whether it's web, desktop application, iOS application, Android application, you name it and Notion is there for you. And Notion is used by over half of Fortune 500 companies. Now I don't know about you, but I'm not anywhere near a Fortune 500 company, but they're also used by many, many teams. And we're one of them.

We're one of those teams. These teams that use Notion send less email, they cancel more meetings, cause hey, no meeting needed. They save time searching for their work using Notion send less email, they cancel more meetings, cause hey, no meeting needed. They save time searching for their work using Notion AI, and they reduce spending on various tools because they consolidate it. And this helps everyone to stay on the same page

and help the business stay more focused. So try Notion today for free when you go to Notion.com slash changelog. That's all lowercase letters, Notion.com slash changelog. That's all lowercase letters. Notion.com slash changelog to try the powerful, easy to use Notion AI today. And when you use our link, of course, you're helping us. So do that.

Use our link that lets Notion know, hey, changelog is impressing people. They're sharing what we do well. And you know what? I wouldn't tell you if I didn't. I love Notion. It's awesome. And you should try it out. notion calm slash change log yeah my my

back swipe gestures are not not working anymore in my system for some reason and I'm a little angry about it a little angry well that could lead us into our next discussion which is is this an ad or is this not an ad? You want to tee that one up? Let me get my bearings here real quick, okay? Cause somebody cut me deep. Somebody cut me deep. This also was in our Zulip community.

I believe it was called ad or interview, something like that. Yes, let's see here. I was mostly sad about the breaking continuity of, episode number and name and stuff like that. Then somebody drops in an interviewer and ad and a question mark and it's like, come on now, man. You ruined the beauty of the list. So for context, in our Zulu channels,

each new episode gets auto posted by our system with its episode number and title. And then the conversation for that show will go inside that particular topic. You can also just create topics, but people weren't really doing that, they were kind of letting those not be, and then somebody created a topic in the interviews channel, which I think makes sense, probably general, but you might make more sense, but it's totally cool.

It's just that you're a little bit pedantic, I guess. Particularly. Well, you know, I figured you, I figured I might actually upset you more than it did me. So I was kind of sad for you. But then I thought about like, you know, you've ruined the beauty of the list. It's just kind of.

I've come to embrace the chaos. Okay. Well, good for you. You're growing. I'm happy for you. I am Okay, so interview or an ad question mark Tim Upton. How's it? Sorry How would you say that Jared?

Uckin you can yeah, you can Tim you can Tim you can Sorry about that, Tim. Messed your last name up. Haven't said it out loud before. I'm not gonna read what he said there. Should I read what he said there? I guess so, it's context.

He says, I'm sure this is a fine line, but at what point does an interview become an ad? I'm not talking about open source maintainers or anything like that, but when you interview the CEO or CTO of a company and that interview centers around their product or service, it starts a smelly product placement or just plain old advertising to me. Not that people don't have anything interesting to say,

but I think you guys should do your best to steer the conversation away from the product. Maybe talking about their personal history or whatever. I don't know. They said anyway, I ended the recent Beyond Lou episode. This is the episode of questions. So I talked to Beyond Lou, Sourcegraph, co-founder and CTO. Episode 632. Yeah, episode 632. He said, I ended the episode prematurely because of this,

even though I am a user of Kodi and I like it, maybe it's just me. And so I was like, I was marinating. I read this, stepped away, didn't jump in right away. And here you are, Jared, hours or two later. What'd you say? I said, our interviews are never ads. In other words, you cannot pay us money

to come on our shows. We only talk to and about things we are genuinely curious about. So I thought that that was short and sweet. That's truth. That's truth. I feel like we say that enough and we, I think Tim probably knows that.

Like I don't think I was informative of that. I just wanted to put that out there just to make sure that that's like 100% clear because we've always been that way. If it's up to me, we'll always be that way. You can't just buy your way onto an interview with us. In fact, I've just turned down some people recently who were willing to pay some good money

to just come on the show and I was like, that's just not how we do our thing. So we've definitely lost money over the years doing that, but allows us to just answer these questions with saying, if you're getting interviewed on our show, it's because we want to. It's not because you gave us money, and that's just the way it is.

So, starting there, but then you expanded and said a lot more, so go ahead. Yeah, well I just think, I mean, I don't know if you wanna go into all these details, that's not what I'm trying to do here, unless you are, and I can do that, but I don't think that's what we should do. I think it comes down to,

what I stepped away and marinated with on this was that I think potentially One a couple things have changed founders talk isn't a show anymore and so we've absorbed some of the things I did there which was explore with a CEO a CTO a co-founder their world their journey sometimes it's product sometimes it's their journey and their world their journey sometimes it's product sometimes it's their journey and And so we've converted what was fun is talking to and an infrequent

Episode style for the changelog, right? So that's one Two, I think that the style of ad that we do produce is Was cut from the same cloth that I was cutting, finished talking other things from was that rather than I mean, I really just hate reading scripts. And this is what it came down to. I was just so, I wasn't even thinking about the listener really at first. I don't think, I think I was being a little selfish. I said, I just can't read one more crappy script.

This marketing team gives me not cause they're not good at it. It's just like they don't know how to talk to our audience. So it's not their fault. And so I was like, I got to change this. And we started going into the into the cut, into the into the scene, talking to CEO, CTOs, VPs, product engineering, you name it. And we're peeling back the layers. So I think our ads have morphed into many interviews,

which they very much have, and so now the line, not that we're not drawing it clearly, but the style of the content you're getting is so similar that maybe that's what makes it feel like an ad because when we do ads, it feels like content. I don't know. That was my thought. Yeah, I think that definitely blurs it slightly,

which is why we make it very obvious with the musical transitions and the music bed beneath the ads. You'll always hear music beneath our ads and you'll rarely hear music beneath our voices. And this is like coming into something or going out from something. But it's always same or similar ad music.

So I think that that's clear enough in the production. But I do think because our ads are many interviews, maybe you think our interviews are long ads. And so it's definitely worth asking. And I think it's worth talking about. Like we wanna be real and legit. And so shout out to Tim for bringing it up because if Tim's thinking of it,

I'm sure there's other people thinking it too. And it's something that we want to address and something that we struggle with because honestly, we only talk about cool stuff that we think is cool, but also that does cross over into stuff that people are advertising because we are picky with who our sponsors are and we do think their stuff is cool.

And so I can see how that could become a gray area. Sometimes we have to say, that's why I say this is not an ad, but, and we start to talk because it has to be clear that this is just my opinion and this is actually somebody paying us to speak to you directly through us. It is a real challenge because I will often learn about a brand because they reached out to us and what in particular and I'm struggling because I want to get Scott Dietz on the show and it's Augment Code.

I'm really interested in what they're doing that doing some cool stuff there But I'm only learning about it because of how deep we go with our ad style if I just took a script for them And read it I wouldn't know anything like I do about augment code. I Would just know the surface and what they tell me I would not have done Investigative journalism and going on the inside and looked at it Like how can I expose these details to our to our world in fun ways, which is my approach is I scan the entire vector of what they do, you know, along with their help go into the depths, talk to different people. And I kind of come out with what I think their

story is to our world. Sometimes they get an opportunity to go deeper. Sometimes a little more shallow, but either way, it's the same approach, which is not what are they saying because obviously what they're saying is not resonating or it's not doing so well. And if it is, we're going to repeat that. If it's doing well, we will repeat it. But a lot of cases I'm like diving in, but I'm struggling because I want to get augment code on, I want to get Scott on. I've learned a lot of cool stuff about retail that I'm in love with.

They're doing some cool stuff. I want to get David's shoe back on, but like these are anchor sponsors of ours, you know? And so it's like, well, no, we're not having them on cause they paid us, but we did learn about them because they paid us. We got curious and exposed to their world. And it's like, well, that's where the challenge is. Like, do we gatekeep them from appearing on the show because they've paid us in the past?

Or they have an active campaign on a different side? I mean, Sourcegraph paid us in the past. Yeah, like Sourcegraph has paid us in the past. Right now, we haven't done a Sourcegraph spot in a while. Maybe we will in the future. I think we haven't done a source grab spot in a while. Maybe we will in the future. I think we don't gatekeep because you have sponsored or might sponsor. Right.

We just go where we're genuinely curious. I think we do have a mandate to go beyond and find things that aren't people that come to us with money, you know? But I think we're obviously doing that all the time. For instance, our show next week, our interview next week, is with Stefan Ewen of Restate, which is a direct competitor to a sponsor of ours, Temporal.

And I was just like, interested in this, it's a listener request, I was like, let's do a show. So here's another thing doing similar stuff and we're just gonna talk about it because that's what we wanna do and that's what I think people wanna hear. I think so too. But I do appreciate Tim bringing this up

because I think it, like you had said, if he's thinking it, then others are thinking it too. And I think it's definitely worth noting, one thing I did say, which I think is worth quoting is if it would have been an ad if I was trying to have beyond convince us or even me how to get started. I don't even think I even asked him like, okay, so now that we're done, how do people sign up? You know, I was like, that was not the question.

And I just said podcasts are, and I really feel this, I love podcasting so much, is that they're still the most authentic form of content. It's long form. You can't hide behind questions. You can't, I mean, you can't if you allow yourself to edit people because they say you have to to have the appearance and

I think in those cases, that's pretty telling if it's a you know, controversial interview for example But I think for the most part if we ask people Stuff and we have a conversation on you can you can read between the lines of who they say they are and what they say They can do if they just vibe code of the next thing and they're claiming that it was not vibe coded You will find out pretty quickly if it was vibe coded or not, for example, in a podcast interview format. Yeah.

Well said, let's close with this. So I turned you into a studio. Oh my gosh, those are more? However, this is a happy surprise, a happy accident perhaps, because when I prompted that, I did not go back to the original picture. So actually it turned your walrus into a Studio Ghibli style walrus.

And so I'll show you that now. And to our listener, definitely check the show notes. Maybe we'll get in the chapter data so that you can see what we're seeing. And to our viewer, of course, you're viewing this on YouTube, so just look with us, but we'll get these the chapter data so that you can see what we're seeing and to our viewer, of course, you're viewing this on YouTube, so just look with us, but we'll get these images out there. There you are, man, what do you think? Oh. Adam as a walrus in a Studio Ghibli movie.

I like how the Falconhead logo has morphed. Yeah, every time I like things like slightly changed. Yeah, it's cool how it's turned into an F, that's so strange. Do they know I'm at Falconhead? And the person's still walking in the door. Maybe the Falconhead logo is a Falcon that looks like an F and we didn't realize it, but Chats GPT did.

And now we're learning that their logo actually does look like an F on purpose. What do you think? You know, I... Let's go back to the original image and purpose. What do you think? You know, I... Let's go back to the original image and see. What do you think? I mean, if I squint, it does look like an F, but if I don't squint, it just looks like a Falcon.

Like the shadow. Yeah, it's pretty close. Yeah. You should send that picture to them and be like, you guys miss an opportunity to make your Falcon look like an F. Yeah, I'm gonna tell them. Since this conversation's over,

I'm gonna call them. Yeah, you should. Let them know. So, you should. Let him know. So, original image, not so good. Lego, which one's best? You got Lego, Adam, Golfer, Adam. You've got Walrus, Golfer, Adam. And then you have Walrus, Ghibli, Golfer.

I like this one, I feel like. Yeah, this is solid. This is making a good cartoon, Jared. How does it do it? It just takes a whole bunch of copyright material and learns its stuff and then fakes it till it makes it. Do you think that's me though? Can you see me in that walrus?

I'm not gonna answer that. I'm too smart to answer that kind of question. I can see me a little bit. I mean, I think my broad shoulders are in there. Yeah, well, I mean, walruses do have broad shoulders, but I mean, the glasses are, you know, dead match. The eyes, I think, are not too bad. I think it's lost.

You know what it looks like more now? It looks more like King of the Hill style. Like, I feel like it's lost your... The ghibli. Just your overall shape. It's kind of lost it, and more like a like you are drinking a six-pack or something anyways Of near beer. That's right. You know, I'm a big fan of near beer now, man. I Think the I don't know if you're doing this if others are doing this but a lot of people are Opting to not drink alcoholic beer and they're drinking

a healthy non alcoholic beer. So they're drinking something that tastes like an IPA. It's got no tropics in it. That's got like different healthy things in it. And it tastes like an IPA. So I saw this trend coming a couple of years ago and I invested in a company that does non-alcoholic gin and whiskey. And they're very popular. And they sent me a bottle because I was like an early investor or whatever. It's one of these, I'm not sure if you had to be accredited or not,

but you can invest in private companies now through saves in different entities. And one of these, it's like a crowd fund to a certain extent, but not like a kickstart. Anyways, they sent me a bottle of it, and I told my wife about it, because I'm like, yeah, I mean, dry January is a thing now. Like more, like you said,

people are starting to want to have the social aspect of drinking, but without the actual alcohol part. And so more and more of these alternatives are just gonna make money. And so I think I put like a thousand bucks in, you know, not like, I'm not a big investor. I like to just place little bets

and see what happens with them, it's fun. And they sent me a bottle and you know what? We cracked that sucker open and tried it. It was disgusting. It was disgusting. Now maybe it's better now, but I haven't tried again because they're always working on there. And I was like, I'm not going to name the company unless I shame them and they kick me off their cap. But I was like, this is bad.

And my wife says, she thinks that makes it a bad investment. I'm like, that still might be a good investment because maybe other people like it, but we both thought it was gross. And I haven't had some of the beers. Are they actually good? Like they taste like an IPA? Yeah. Yeah.

There's some of the good ones out there. There's hop water. There's like, which is kind of like a, an IPA meets water. Okay. I think I've had hop water or just tastes like hoppy water, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if you like the hop taste, which is an IPA, right? Indian pale is what IPA stands for. You know, like if you want to have an alcoholic beverage with, you know, with in a non alcoholic setting, right.

Then I think they're great. I mean, I'm reaching for them before I'm reaching for beer nowadays. Like I'm just not even doing it. And I would say I've always been an IPA fan and the IPAs are actually, not all of them, but the ones from, I think, Athletic or Authentic is the beer brand. There's a really good Heineken Zero.

They're calling them Zero beers, by the way. OK, they're capitalizing on the or and a beers, right? And a or zero. I think you're like, hey, can I get a zero? And they're like, here's our list. You know, you just say, can I get a zero or zero beer or something like that? And some of them actually have point five.

You know, very little, but not. Yeah, you're definitely not gonna feel anything I mean if you're abstaining completely mm-hmm, and you're that kind of person then you might want to steer clear or double-check the the actual amounts but the ones I'm tapping into to use a good pun is is just Zeros, you know nothing at all, you know

Totally pure over here, just so you know. Sure. Every day. Very cool, well. Good stuff, man. Should we call it a friend? Should we call it a week? Happy Friday, everyone.

What else can we cover? Is that it? We got more stuff, but we don't gotta force it, man. Let's let it ride. Always leave them wanting more. It's one of my mott it ride Always leave them wanting more. It's one of my mottoes always leaving one more I would definitely check out this thread and If you've got comments after hearing our comments on this interview or an ad, I would love to hear it And I think you know, I again Tim. Thank you for doing this another for sticking up for our style

I mean somebody in there who was it that said this? I want to pull this out. This is awesome. Well, John Johnson, somebody like compared us to Joe Rogan, John Johnson. Yeah, John Johnson was such a good comment that I was like, dang, we should put that on a website somewhere or something or change. Little podcast is highly underrated.

It is the best tech podcast quote on Joe Rogan's level and quote even Jared what even their weekly news brief is golden Everything here is for everybody, but there's something here for everybody everyone put that in a Woman put that on a t-shirt on put it on a testimonial page. Yeah, that was very nice, John. We appreciate that you feel that way. It's awesome. Yeah.

Well, it's one thing to have an ideal or a moral or a belief, and then it's, and really not really say verbatim to the world, but act it out, and for that to permeate someone's thought even though you didn't say so You know, I just want to hear I want to hear more comments Honestly, I like I don't ever want to blow his comments fishing now. Yeah, I really do I want to hear if you get some to say let us know in Zulu

Yeah, absolutely because I think we're gonna ruffle some more feathers. I got I got some more People coming on that could be suspect. Oh people coming on that could be suspect. Suspect. Now I'm now I'm feeling ruffled. I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm just teasing a little bit. It's been fun. Yeah, my friends, my friends.

Well, friends, the fourth wall was broken a few times on this episode. It might be beneficial in the funny parts, maybe the whole thing. Go to YouTube, youtube.com slash changelog. Watch all of our episodes in full length video. We spend a ton of time putting visuals in there, a ton of time doing the chaptering, and we just feel it's a slightly upgraded experience

when visuals are involved. And today that's one of those shows. So youtube.com slash changelog. What is the weekend? It's Friday. That means fun is happening. I know me, I'm gonna go party hard with my family, my two kids, my wife, my dog,

and we're gonna go and have some fun. What are you doing? You having fun? You staying inside? You doing a home lab project? Maybe you're deploying something new. Maybe you're tinkering on a new thing. Whatever it is, I hope you enjoy it.

Cause I'm gonna enjoy my weekend. Okay, big thank you to our friends and our partners over at Fly. Our friends over at Augment Code, augmentcode.com. Our friends over at Depotment Code, AugmentCode.com, our friends over at Depot, Depot.dev, and of course our friends over at Notion, Notion.com slash changelog. Those beats are banging because Breakmaster Cylinders

bringing those beats, the Beat Freak in Residence. Yes, BMC. Well, okay friends, that's it. See you on Monday.