The Charlie Kirk Show - The Indian Immigration Debate + New Butler Shooting Mysteries

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

Bo French sent all of Texas into a tizzy when he loudly complained about the number of Indian students at a UT-Austin football game. Jeremy Carl, Auron MacIntyre, and Megan Basham all discuss the cowardice of the “Karl Rove” faction, and the right way to explain why immigration is a concern even if the immigrants follow the law and are academically gifted. Basham also discusses a Catholic family that lost custody of their daughter for not affirming her “trans” identity. Andrew and Blake react to new revelations about Butler shooter Thomas Crooks. Watch every episode ad-free on members.charliekirk.com!    Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com!Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with noble gold investments at noble goldinvestments.com. That is noble goldinvestments.com. All right, welcome everybody. September 15th, 2026. We're here from the Y-Refi Studios in Phoenix, Arizona. Honored to be with you as always. Blake is stranded in South Dakota. That's all right, Blake. We still love this. The problem, The problem with living in God's country is God only lets a couple flights a day leave it. And if that flight gets delayed, you're stuck an extra day.

Well, that's all right. Your family probably appreciates it. We have some breaking news. And, you know, it strikes me as interesting. And I'm sure that the haters will love it. But I am distinctly intrigued by the Thomas Crook story out of Butler PA. It's one of those stories that never has felt like we've gotten the full picture. And I'm not alleging grand conspiracy just yet, but I am very intrigued.

And we get new details that emerged today. And President Trump is chiming in. And so we want to unpack all of that. It's breaking news this morning from the New York Post. They got the scoop. Cremation of would-be Trump assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks. Body was paid for by an anonymous donor. So an anonymous donor paid for the cremation of President Trump's would-be assassin, Thomas Crooks.

Just days after the deadly Butler PA rally shooting, according to federal records reviewed by the Post. The revelation was included in a trove of documents provided to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, Republican out of Iowa, good man, as part of his ongoing inquiry into the first Trump assassination attempt. That's one reason to stop the reading right there. The first Trump assassination attempt. There have been multiple, after all. So this is very strange because more and more revelations are coming out about this. Tom Elliott on his substack, Tom S. Eliot.com has been reviewing a trove of documents.

And then this broke today. So he added it on. He said 10 basically suspicious things about what we're learning from the crooks assassination attempt. So Blake, I can stop right there if you want to chime in. But are you suspicious at least at this point? I would say it's, I don't want to say suspicious. I would say interested. It flags a lot of stuff that makes you raise a bit of an eyebrow.

So for example, the day before the shooting, Crooks was at a rifle range. He signed in. We have, we know it was him apparently. And apparently he spent a very long time interacting with another person, an unknown club member, on the range. And did the FBI follow up on this to find out who that specific guy was? Do we have a specific reason that we know that person wasn't suspicious? Was he just another guy on the range? At least from this info, it appears that's unresolved.

They also flag the contents of his bag seem a little unusual. It includes a tape measure, a red Sharpie, a hyper-tuff stapler, and a box of staples. Elliot says make of that what you will The agents didn't I'm thinking that might actually be The stuff he took to the shooting range The day before you could staple up a target But it's stuff like that

And then four encrypted Belgian email accounts Don't know what's going on there There's just a lot of this stuff Yeah that to me is one of the more interesting pieces of this right He seemed to have Connection Online he didn't write a lot There was no manifestos

His dad described him as not a writer. By the way, his dad's account of Thomas Crooks is very, very strange. He would pace around, they said, dancing and whispering in the middle of the night and pace around the home. And his dad made jokes about him saying, are you hearing voices? I think his dad probably was a little bit weirded out by his own son. And his son said, no voices. I just talked to myself. Huh. Okay. Well, that's interesting. But there's multiple layers here that are just interesting, right? Like, Christian. for ray the FBI on so on July 24th 2024 FBI director at the time Christopher Ray told the House

Judiciary Committee we did not find the ladder at the scene so he added that the Bureau did not believe crooks used one to reach the roof but that this is what's interesting they found the ladder basically 40 minutes away 40 miles away in a woodlot and the FBI already had custody of it So when he chooses these words, he chose to narrowly tailor his words very specifically. So it was technically accurate in the narrowest possible reading of his words. So Christopher Ray is, I mean, just like, why be that specific? And why be that narrow? There's a lot of questions here that I think Christopher Ray should have to answer for. President Trump is chiming in on this, by the way, which I think is of note.

He said everybody knows the crooked Joe Biden FBI didn't do what they should have with respect to the lunatic who shot me in Butler, Pennsylvania. By the time I got into office on January 20th, most of the information was missing, altered, corrupted, or gone. New info was just found. Why wasn't it seen long ago? It's a great question. That's really interesting that he's saying that because

the best argument really against worrying too much about this is in the past Trump has suggested he's very satisfied with the Butler case that he'd gotten the explanation and he wasn't more worried about it and he was the guy who was shot at and so it seemed he would have the most concern but now he does seem to be changing course he's seeing something that's upsetting him about this yeah that exactly so I have not been as fixated on this story as some because of Trump's own reaction. But this changes everything for me. This changes the whole calculus. If Trump is waving the flag and saying, hey, guys, there's something to see here, that's a huge deal. Because as you point out, rightly, he was the individual shot at. So dirty cop Christopher Ray should pay a price for the way he

handled this assassination attempt and certainly for the things he said. God bless America, make America great again, President Donald J. Trump. All right. So it's just very, very interesting. So A couple other revelations that we have to point out here. Number two, the FBI was looking for a second phone. Again, we get this from Thomas Elliott. Four days later, on July 21, a special agent and a supervisor walked a linear search pattern across the same area. Coordinates given to six decimal places.

So it's very, very specific. And rummage through a dumpster for a phone believed to be associated with Thomas Crooks. They also searched a second location, an apartment complex on library, road because its coordinates were saved on Crook's phone and reviewed a funeral home security cameras covering the road outside of it the morning of July 13th, which is when the assassination took place. This is about a week after. They found nothing. But the search only makes sense if investigators believed a device existed and that they did not have access to that phone.

So they are already basically saying, we believe there's multiple phones and we're searching for multiple phones. why would this sort of lone gunman, just a complete lone wolf, have Belgian encrypted email accounts, had multiple phones, be spotted with multiple different people at different locations, and we don't seem to know about this. And Christopher Ray is being very, very specific and very narrow with his word choice. Like there's something that's not right here. You know, and I have to just compare and contrast it. you know there's a lot of people that have built a cottage industry around charlie's uh assassination

and i have not had those same red flags go up nearly as often i want to know who was on the discord chats and because anybody else be involved but it does seem like there's a much more well-rounded story that i can i can understand here there's so many holes that i don't know where to begin so very very interesting revelations and then blake to have somebody come in and pay for the cremation of Thomas Crooks. While there's a congressional investigation going on, it's very, very interesting, very interesting. Well, my gut feeling reading through a lot of this

is it does remind me, frankly, of how a lot of other, let's just say it, conspiracy theories get started, where you take one or two things that you can kind of make you raise an eyebrow, especially if you present it a certain way. So, for example, the encrypted Belgian email addresses. Well, looking at the details again, what it is is he had repeatedly accessed mail fence, which is an email service that is hosted in Belgium. So it's basically he went to a website that is based in another country that is a secure email server, which most of us probably just use Gmail or hotmail or whatever, but some people are really paranoid and they want to use these specific secured email things. And that often means using a foreign site.

or similarly the guy he's with on the range. Well, they say it's another member of the club. My guess is they have pretty good reason to believe that that's not a suspicious interaction. It would be nice to know more. And similar with the cremation. It sounds like Crooks' family was not well off. Cremation, for some reason, is a pretty expensive thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the family didn't necessarily even know the person. It might be there might be an anonymous donor who literally don't. Donates to provide funeral services for someone. What this strikes me as is it's like the FBI is just not dotting every eye and crossing every T in the way we might consider ideal. That this is a super high profile case that people are going to lose their minds over. So we'd really like it if they were just exhaustively detailed about everything where they could say, okay, we found this other club member. They're a normal guy who's there every week and we have no connection to. to Thomas Crooks.

If they were doing that, I think this would tamp down this. Reading through all of this, I would say, I don't feel that concerned about it. Or, for example, another part of it where we mentioned this, that he was, that Crooks was pacing around his house all of the time. Or another, apparently a classmate said, it was like having a course with Lee Harvey Oswald. That's evidence that points towards he could be a lone shooter. He is this nutball who talks to himself, who acts strangely, who can. could fixate on something, even if he's not talking about politics all the time, he just might be the

kind of guy who gets the delusion in his head that he should try to assassinate a former and future U.S. president. So that's my gut feeling on this, taking all of it in over the course of this half hour. Yeah, I mean, I definitely understand. I think some of these explanations, we call it the evidence of the Gaps fallacy, right? And we see this with the story with what happened with Charlie, that if people don't have a piece of information that they feel entitled to, then they fill it in with all kinds of conspiratorial thinking, right? And that can be a problem, right? We have to follow the evidence, follow the logic, follow the rationale. But it does, again, let's play the other side of this, Blake. President Trump is now sounding off, upset that he feels like Christopher Ray did not handle this the right way, that the evidence was corrupted, it was missing, it was altered.

those are huge huge, huge allegations. And I'm kind of remember, I'm reminded of the time where President Trump accused law enforcement of wiretapping him, right? Everybody was like, oh, we don't wiretap anymore. It turned out to be true. President Trump's instincts on this stuff oftentimes can be pretty spot on. And we have to give a lot of credence to the fact that he went from not sounding overly concerned to now he's saying he's concerned. Very true, though I will note. I will note his specific takeaway is he wants.

accountability for Christopher Ray, who is a specific person he has a grievance with. So he seems to be putting this into the pile of reasons we should indict or penalize or go after Christopher Ray, as opposed to what we're more concerned about, which is can we get more information on this shooting? And so I just wanted to flag that as an element of this. Fair enough. Fair enough. It is interesting the Lee Harvey Oswald comment from, I guess, a classmate or something, because originally there were anti-Trump remarks attributed. This classmate got very upset that those anti-Trump remarks were passed along because they didn't experience the same interactions with him, just said that he was a, he was genius level smart and that accordingly, according to his

parents, he was walking around whispering to himself. He does seem like a disturbed individual, but he does seem like somebody that could be radicalized. And this is something else that you need to understand in the audience actually happens. When young people especially that are on these, you know, chat groups or online in these kind of corners of the internet, foreign operatives will get in there and they will, and they do something called nudging. This is one of the things that I've been researching and studying with regards to Tyler Robinson. Or is somebody nudging, whether it's from China, Iran, Russia, wherever, that could be trying to radicalize, you know, malcontents, people that have emotional or mental problems to get them to do something radical, to get them to do something extreme, like an attempted assassination of a president.

This would be something that I would be very curious to know more about somebody that seems to be a bit of a loner, be very, very strange, strange behavior, high IQ, high agency. Is this somebody that you could, you know, try and lead down a really dark path? Right. Now, there's another thing from these documents that I just want to point out really quick. someone who looked like crooks walked into a gun store 120 miles away with two men so every witness in this file family included says the same thing crooks did everything alone he went to the range alone bought ammunition alone had no friends in general then there is a keystone armory in edinburgh pennsylvania two hours north of bethel park the store called fbi pittsburgh itself to report that on may 25th 2024, a person of interest who resembled the shooter spent about an hour browsing the store

accompanied by a white male believed to be around his mid-30s and another older white male with a gray beard. The lookalite bought 20 rounds of ammo, basically, and this ammo would match one of Thomas Crooks' weapon. So the timing is plausible. Crooks was booked at 5 p.m. Carbine class in Mars, Pennsylvania the same day. So he had a class there. And so he could have been there. It was very similar, and there were two people with him. Now, I will just give one note of caution. You know, in the Tyler Robinson's case, there's this whole Pinguish Steakhouse alternate timeline theory, right? That has been debunked, but this is somebody that people at the restaurant thought could look like Tyler Robinson.

So just because somebody says that somebody looks like Tyler Robinson does not mean that it is. In the same case, just because somebody thinks that it looks like Thomas Crooks does not mean that it is, right? Our memories are foggy. We misremember things. we get details wrong. Nevertheless, there's definitely more to look into here. I'm very intrigued. My interest is peaked.

And if President Trump says he's not satisfied, that's a huge change of the game. I want to talk to you about an issue so many Americans face, and that's health insurance. There's an organization I really, really appreciate, called Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a faith-based alternative to health insurance. And this is real stuff, folks. Like, you've got to listen in. With CHM, you're not paying into a company's profit margin. You're investing in a community with less overhead than the competition.

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Plus, you can enroll or switch your program at any time. See why so many believers are taking a leap of faith. Start today by visiting ch ministries.org slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie for a 50% credit towards your first month. That's chmistries.org slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie. All right. We have Megan Basham, who's awesome. She has a great book, Shepherds for sale, and that's going to be the theme of our discussion here. So got a weird, apparently Thomas Massey, Congressman Thomas Massey, has just moved to impeach Secretary of War Pete Hegsa.

He was recognized to raise a question of the privilege of the House. The form of the resolution is as follows. matter of impeaching Secretary of War, Peter Brian Hegset. So I don't really know what to make of that other than the fact that I didn't see it coming. It was not on my bingo card this morning, Megan. I don't know about you, but it was. No. You're breaking this news to me. Yeah. Well, welcome, welcome to the upside down world. That is. Well, we can we can tie it into the bigger picture because what Megan's book is about and what she's often talked about is that really bizarre desire among people who claim to be conservative or conservative institutions to do a lot of legwork for the left. And we see that with self-identified libertarians, and we see it a lot with

self-identified Christian leaders. Yeah. And so much of the debate that we had seen over the last 48 hours over the infamous Beau French tweet, like to me, it was kind of the pattern that we have seen from so much of the establishment, both the political establishment, on the right and also the evangelical establishment, because so often they walk arm in arm. And it's that we can debate something like that post, like was that the most effective way to communicate frustrations about the fact

that the demographics in Texas are changing so rapidly. Like you can say, okay, taking this particular photo from a football game maybe wasn't the best choice because we don't know what the circumstances were to bring those particular students into that particular part of the stadium. Maybe they're part of a South Asian club. on the campus or something, so who knows. But the immediate rush to condemn from John Cornyn and

these other candidates was exactly what you see. And by the way, from a lot of evangelical leaders too. I think I saw Daniel Darling of the Southern Baptist Convention was one of those who kind of weighed in and said, you know, this is despicable. And none of them wanted to grapple with what is the sentiment behind this? What is, you know, what are the frustrations that are being projected onto this picture. And so instead, you've got this virtue signaling rather than a serious discussion of, okay, what's motivating that sentiment? And what's motivating it is, you know, and we can look at the demographics of Texas and look at some of these school districts and say, okay, why has the Koppel school district gone from 18% Asian in 2006 to 57% Asian in

26. Same thing with Frisco. You know, it's gone from 16% Asian to 44% Asian. That's not organic. That is, you know, a deliberate effort to change the demographics of Texas through immigration, through these H-1B things and other visas. And so, you know, I look at that and I just go, it's fine to say, hey, that wasn't the appropriate way to express this sentiment of the voters, but it is a real sentiment. And so I wanted to grapple with that and say, okay, let's look at realities on the ground and say, where is this coming from? And that is what you get from the evangelical and conservative establishment that was heavily represented in John Cornyn saying, I'm not going to vote for Beau French. No one should vote for Beau French. Even Carl Rove saying,

I am not going to vote for Beau French. In fact, I'm going to vote for his opponent, who is someone who is much more morally questionable, someone who has openly opposed banning puberty blockers for students and for months. minors. And so that's the kind of moral weight that they're making, that they're saying, I'm going to put more weight on this, you know, maybe unfortunate tweet than the fact that his opponent is somebody who is absolutely supportive of transgender surgeries and puberty blockers for minors. Yeah, let me just address something. We've had a guest on this show in the past, who was the former GOP chair in the state of Texas, Abraham George. He's an Indian, you know,

but a conservative, conservative Indian. He and Bo French are friends. And he does not think Bo French is racist against Indians. And there is a lot of people in Texas that will say, hey, you know, some of these Indian guys, they're great. Everything's, everything's great. But there's just, you know, there's a lot. And it's happening really, really quick. And so you're seeing whole neighborhoods get transformed, whole school districts get transformed like that. And people don't understand, like, this is historic. What's happened to America in the last 40 years, the pace of change, the number of people that we've brought in is historic. And I think it's insane. that when you're going to import 70 million people or whatever it's been and not expect the

native-born population to notice or for that not to cause consternation or frustration because it's going to it's going to rapidly change the culture my question for you though Megan is why is the church so susceptible to being hoodwinked by this stuff why are they so susceptible to the sob stories to pastors parroting this open border garbage, parroting all the stuff that allows this to happen. It gives them the moral license to do this. I mean, for one thing, I think we've established a standard that the left gets to set our cultural midpoint. So whatever we sort of presume is neutral, we have allowed the left to set that. And in part, it is because they hold a lot of the levers of power. So if you want to be published

in the New York Times or you want to be hailed in the Washington Post or by the Atlantic, Typically, the way you do that is by taking these positions, is by saying, I'm going to condemn this tweet. And I'm not going to ask what was the legitimate objections that are behind the sentiment that reacted to that tweet. Because those are the things that they don't want to look at, like the fact that, okay, we are seeing workers in the United States displaced. There is the fact that in the University of Texas system, roughly 30% of the graduate students, students are international students. If you get into the high-paying STEM programs, it actually gets up to more like 50 to 60 percent of those students are foreign-born. And so there's a lot of resentment about that because they're thinking, you know, a lot of our taxpayer money goes to prop up this system.

So why aren't our pastors sometimes speaking for us or to our concerns? And so, you know, I think that there's been a lot of effort within the church and, you know, part of it is, I think, just man pleasing, right? They see what the dominant position is of the establishment power players, and so they drift that way. But I also think, you know, as I demonstrated in Shepherds for sale, there's also been a very deliberate effort on the left to come into churches and to create evangelical front groups. Yeah, Megan, because our memories are so short, give me like a concrete example of the money flow, of the influence flow that comes from on high, that comes from outside, really evangelical circles, but then influence.

the church to propagandize them and get them to parrot their message. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about, for example, you know, one of the evangelical leaders who condemned Beau French's post was Daniel Darling, who has been involved with the evangelical immigration table, I think has signed some of their letters and been involved with organizations that linked arms with them. So this group, it's actually a part of a secular immigration NGO that is.

called the National Immigration Forum. So this is, that is the umbrella group. It's a left-wing group. It is funded heavily by people like George Soros and other left-wing billionaires. So they created an evangelical front group. And legally, there's no separation. They're the same entity, but they created this evangelical front group that is to go into churches and say, we are representing the evangelical vote. And so they took money via the National Immigration Forum. They took money from them, which was then, George Soros Money goes to National Immigration Forum, which then goes to the evangelical immigration table, and they then go out and draft these sort of generic letters that say,

you know, maybe we stand opposed to racism or we stand opposed to, you know, this kind of xenophobia. And they get all these pastors to sign on. And so the pastors sign on because they think, well, we don't want to be for racism or xenophobia and we want to love our immigrant neighbors. So they sign on. And those letters are then taken and presented to our legislators on the So our GOP legislators, and they are saying, look, this is what the evangelical vote wants.

They're offended by this. And so that is what then gets the right-wing representative to say, oh, well, then, gosh, I don't want to offend them. So they rush out to condemn the statement too. And nobody grapples then with what it was that motivated that sentiment. That, OK, what is happening on the ground with our policy that is angering people? It's so outrageous because this happens in a lot of domains. The left does this a lot where we give grants.

to various NGOs to engage in community activism or whatever, and they use that money to then produce reports that agitate for left-wing policies, and it's a big self-looking ice cream cone. But I don't think so many people realize how much this happens on the right with Christians that, yeah, we're paying churches to do this stuff, so they write letters saying keep doing this stuff, and then it's presented to our politicians as neutral values-based opinions. And it just, it never is.

And if you look at the actual voters, they largely don't believe in this. Yeah. And there's also, you know, very much a structure in place to keep those pastors who have come out. Let's say you live in Texas and they say things like actually, no, scripture does not require us to have open borders. Then they no longer get access to some of the opportunities like right now media and big conferences. So they know if they speak out, it's going to drum them out of the club. A devout Catholic family in Massachusetts.

It's locked in a, a huge legal fight to stop the state for transitioning their teen daughter to a boy without their consent. Joseph and Arlene Kutsko haven't spoken to their daughter since the end of 2024. After the Department of Children and Family Services removed her from their home, family claims it was because of their Catholic faith that would not allow them to affirm their daughter as a boy. Child services removed Sophie from their home and accused them of abuse. The Kutzko say their daughter's school, Algonquin Regional High School, Southboro, Massachusetts, exposed Sophie to a culture steeped in gender ideology and blame a school

counselor for socially transitioning their daughter to becoming a boy without their knowledge or permission. This is a heartbreaking story out of Massachusetts that obviously touches on religious themes because, Megan, I have been told that if you do not affirm your child when they think that they're born in the wrong body, that God made them the wrong way, then you are an abusive parent. And that seems to be the case here is that they have been accused of being abusive to their daughter, Sophie. It is apparently a devout Catholic family. I've seen their clips, by the way, just crying on camera. They miss their daughter. And this daughter seems to be, have been subjected to radical gender ideology at this school by a school counselor, and they're

getting blocked from access to Sophie. It's a terrible story. And the fact that's still going on is shocking. It's one of those ones that feels like, didn't we win that battle? How is this still happening? Yeah. And I think, you know, that actually links very much back to the previous segment because we're pretending like, you know, we're past this. We're past the crazy, really, you know, extreme left-wing candidates. And so we've settled the battle over the trans ideology and we can now go back to debating more sane political issues. And this just demonstrates that that is not the case. You know, it's a little bit like I can speak about this with some. some knowledge when you have cancer and the chemo doesn't kill the cancer and you just go off and you

stop trying to treat it. The cancer then comes roaring back stronger than ever before. And I think we're very much at risk of that happening. If these midterms go very poorly, I think we're going to see all of these things coming back on steroids. And again, that really highlights the fact that, you know, Beau French, whatever he posted as a candidate, you can disagree with it. But it is insane for someone like Carl Rove to say, because I disagreed with this post, I am going to therefore elect a candidate who is exponentially more morally disordered. So, you know, this just highlights that for me that this is not done where this is still a live issue. We still have to fight it. We still have to speak out on it. And, you know, right now on the books, there are still laws

in places like California and I think Illinois where this will still happen. Like if you were a foster care family or an adoptive family and you are trying to get a child, they will tell you if you don't affirm them in this madness, then you can't have this child. You are not therefore qualified to adopt or foster. So this is still very much a live issue. Well, listen, I think Megan, it shows, it shows an imbalance, unfortunately, between the right and the left that I think the right is more prone to think we won on this thing. We won this election. We got this executive order. Supreme Court case, it's over. The left, I think because they're more used to working within institutions, they have a lot more entropy, a lot more tide goes in, tide goes out, wear away at this.

Oh, we took a loss. We can come back. Stuff like prison abolition hasn't gone away. All their pro-crime rhetoric, that hasn't gone away just because crime is down for the moment and we're more tough on crime. And this transversion is the scariest version of that. They still have all these people, they got appointed to various bureaucratic apparatuses. They know all those rules that we're not aware of, and they're going to weaponize them where they can right now. But as soon as we have a Democrat back in power in the White House, or if they're able to pack the Supreme Court,

they have all of this stuff ready to be rolled back out, and it can be just like it's 2019 all over again on this. Well, one second here. I want to also bring up this, what you mentioned, the Carl Rove thing, because Blake is completely right. They seem to have this entropy, this ability to go with the flow. Our side tucks tail and runs. And the Carl Rovewing of the party, the neocon, old school, we're going to play by

their moralizing rules. Carl Rovewing of the party is disgusting. It disgusted Charlie. And by the way, it's exactly why we kept losing for so long until Trump came along. It is exactly the wrong way to do things. By the way, I mentioned this before. Beau French is really good friends with the former state GOP chair of Texas, who's an Indian American.

Abraham George will tell you he's not a racist. Okay, you can maybe say, oh, his tweet was not, you know, done the right way or whatever. It doesn't negate the fact that a lot of Texans feel displaced in their own homes. Okay, it doesn't negate the fact that we have an immigration problem. It doesn't negate the fact that they're still transing our kids in Massachusetts, and this Catholic family had CPS show up at their door and kidnap their child from them. Like, the whole old way of doing things needs to just go out the window, and we need to fundamentally reject Carl Rove-type politics as a conservative movement because it's loser mentality.

It's loser-think. And if we give into it in one iota, then we are going to be losers again for another decade. That's what we're looking at. Anyways, Megan, sorry, I didn't mean. No, and I agree with every word. And I also think, you know, we have to acknowledge that there is a class-based element to this, that I think that they just want to be with the people that they consider more elitist, higher brow. And for whatever reason, and a lot of the reasons are money, fear of man, influence. But the range of opinion they are willing to tolerate on the left appears to be just infinite.

There is no level of insanity that will make them say, I would never touch that candidate. I would never vote for that Democrat. And yet the range of opinion that they will tolerate on the right is extremely small. So even if you, you know, in one instance or it, yeah, you don't. express whatever the view is of how we're having this immigration debate in just the right way, in just the right way to appeal and to appease to those intellectual, they view it this way. Your intellectual betters, then they're going to just condemn you and completely focus on that and completely ignore the issue that gave rise to the commentary.

Well, and Megan, this is the whole thing. The rubber chicken dinner crowd, the country club Republican crowd are the same people who sold this country down the river for decades. Okay. I'm sick of listening to them. I'm not going to be lectured by them. Okay. Then secondly, you have to think about the actual people here on the ground, the actual Americans that are getting victimized that get left behind in this whole conversation by our intellectual betters. Screw them. We are done with these people. We have to spit them out completely. And we're going to continue talking about it with Jeremy Carl and all this stuff. But we cannot be lectured by these people. The battle is existential. This girl, I mean, I'm just reading this article, got kidnapped from her parents. Why do we not? This is the same group, by the way, that will not distance himself from Hassan Piker, that will not disavow Hassan Piker, but they're demanding that we disavow

Beau French right now. They're demanding that because he made a tweet that didn't like. And it wasn't even that mean, by the way. I mean, final 20 seconds to you, Megan. Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with all of that. And that's, we're rapidly reaching a point where we're going to continue to see the old guard, I think Luz. We're going to continue to see candidates like John Cornyn Luz, and they're going to be frustrated, but eventually they're going to get the message. Megan Basham, a national treasure. Go pick up

a copy of Shepherds for sale. It's such an important book. Thank you, Megan. Thanks for having me. Leans, levies, wage garnishments, bank account seizures. Those aren't just words. That's the IRS taking what you've earned, your paycheck, your savings, your retirement, even your home, and it's accelerating. IRS notices and letters are up more than 85% in the last two years. If you or your business owe back taxes or you have unfiled tax returns, do not wait. Call American Tax Group, the nation's leading tax firm at 888-381-3816. Here's what the IRS is counting on. That you'll do nothing, that you'll put it off for one more week. But understand, you could wake up tomorrow morning and find your bank account frozen, levied overnight, just like that. Prove them wrong.

fight back because every week you wait, you hand them more leverage. I've done my homework, and America Tax Group's tax lawyers and enrolled agents aggressively fight for you against the IRS and state taxing authorities. They're experts and powerful programs that may even help you eliminate your tax debt altogether. So call 888-381-3816 for a free consultation or visit Americataxgroup.com slash Charlie Kirk. They're coming for what's yours. Don't let them take it without a fight. That's Americataxgroup.com slash Charlie Kirk. This is going to be the hour that we really get into the Beau French tweet. It is all the rage on the internet right now. It's what everybody's talking about.

And here to help us unpack it is Jeremy Carl, author of the Unprotected Class and a Claremont fellow. Jeremy, welcome back to the show. You put out a great tweet yesterday talking about this tweet from Beau French. And you made the qualifiers at the beginning. You said, hey, I've lived in India. I've worked in India. I enjoyed my time there. Indians are great people.

All this stuff. I have a lot of friends that are Indian. You even did that one. Andrew, I'll talk about that because I think actually the quote-unquote throat clearing is actually, it is important because I think, you know, I've just found enough from talking about these sorts of issues that there are a lot of people who will simply not hear you if they think you've got some sort of inanimate against.

Yeah. No, fair enough. And so that's why you do it because I don't, you know, so it's really easy for me to demonstrate that I don't. And, you know, it'll kind of annoy the most based people who are like, well, you know, why do you have to be those qualifiers? But, you know, respectfully, you know, I've done this a lot in front of our audience. Jeremy, before you dive into yours, we actually haven't shown the tweet during the

show, Andrew, so I think we should throw it up real quickly just so people who aren't online know what we're talking about. So this happened over the weekend. The Texas Longhorns played their, a game against Ohio State. Ohio State. And it was a very exciting game to say the least. And Texas won. And so Beau French, he tweeted this as an image from the game. And he said, I heard UT graduation this year looked like this. I didn't believe it. the problem is now obviously far worse than anyone imagined. And it's an image from UT fans celebrating. And almost everyone you can see in the image is clearly of Indian descent.

And so kind of it gives the impression almost that the whole stadium is filled with nothing but Indians. Although I think it's probably maybe an Indian student group or some such. But that got 48.2 million views as of this post. So that's what everyone is reacting to. Well, and Beau French, I guess, is held to a different standard because he's running for Texas Railroad Commissioner. So it's a statewide elected office. Which as the name, as the name suggests, is in charge of regulating the state's oil industry, of course. Yes, which so, exactly.

That's an important job. Yeah, but I love this line that you had in your tweet. And I suggested people read the entire tweet, and I quote tweeted it as well. you're saying like hey listen there's great patriotic indians nevertheless this mass influx of indians and it really has been basically over the last two decades jeremy it says this leads to cultural ethnic and religious balkanization and the erasure of texas's historical majority it's a not so great replacement explain what you mean yeah i mean it's just these things are numbers questions, right? And I pointed out not even just, you know,

a sort of throat clearing apologetic way. I mean, I have a number of, literally, I can think of several Indian American friends I have from Texas who are great patriots, they're conservatives. But when you have sort of a limited number of high-scale immigrants who come over, you know, that's one thing.

When you have entire major school districts in Texas in the Dallas area kind of being transformed in two decades from overwhelming majority Anglo to overwhelmingly majority Asian, you know, that I think that creates some challenges, right? And we should just be honest about that. And we shouldn't jump down both French's throat and start screaming at him because he's pointing out that, hey, this is an

issue and replacement is an issue. Yeah. And I think, Jeremy, I think what stands out that makes this debate particularly challenging and also interesting is we've heard all the rhetoric about immigration from, if you're having illegal immigration from Central America or from Africa, that we're bringing in a lot of people who end up on the dole, who end up committing crimes, we've seen all the heinous illegal immigrant crimes. Indians in America, they have a very high, they have very high educational attainment, they do economically very well. That's why they're all over that stadium. They get a very high number of seats. at the University of Texas.

And you have to react to this a bit differently, because the problem is not that we're just bringing in people who are criminals. It's that we're just bringing in people who are alien that we've brought in. Like, we basically decided to replace our upper crust with people from a different cultural background, a totally different value system. And if you have a ton of those people come in all at once, it's going to radically, change your country. You're going to have an elite cast in Texas who don't know, let's just put it this way, they don't know who Moses was. I heard a university professor say that he's encountering

the Moses problem. He's talking to university students who literally have never heard of who Moses was. And that's a growing issue that we're going to have if we're bringing people who are from a totally different cultural context than the one we're used to. No, Blake, I think that's exactly right. And I think this is the key thing. You really hit out what you said, we're bringing in a new upper crust. You know, people focus constantly on that bottom 10, 20%. And I agree. You know, that's probably, it's a huge problem.

Okay, I'm not saying that's not a problem. But there's also a problem of importing, mass importing a new elite or, you know, a kind of new upper to middle elite in terms of how it kind of just changes the entire cultural project of your country when you're doing that when people are. taking their cues from people without that type of background. And again, it's a numbers question. It's not that we couldn't have some. I'm not saying that if we have some super hot shot, you know, incredible, groundbreaking, you know, engineer from India, we shouldn't let them in just because they happen to be Indian. But as I pointed out, and there's other people who've pointed this out, I mean, of these visas, there's also huge numbers of them who are getting them illegitimately. We've got visa mills, colleges basically, things posing as colleges that are really

visa mills in the U.S. And we're effectively just kind of recruiting in, in many cases, people who will work for 30% less than, say, a U.S. software engineer without any better skills. And then that person's being replaced. That just doesn't serve the U.S. interest in any respect, in my view. You know, it's interesting, too. And Blake has a bunch of analysis on the way that we're importing Indians. Actually, you know, India is such a giant country that there is a lot of lower class Indians. The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of India is lower class people that would, you know, be, I think even more shocking to the American sensibilities. Yeah, to build that out, it's that we, right now they've been pretty high quality. They're very high achieving. But over time,

our rules in America, we have family reunification. We have so many mechanisms to get additional people, inevitably it's going to get less selected. We're going to get people closer to India's average. And what is the average in India? It is a poor country. It is a country with a lot of problems. And we're already seeing that. There's been a lot of focus on, for example, truck drivers who are getting these

commercial driver's license, even though they're illegal or not able to drive. And a lot of these are coming from India. We're getting more of the mass of India's population. And so we're going to get the downsides. And we've also brought in a new elite that is probably going to keep pushing this because they have cultural affinity with the country they're coming from. All right. I want to read something to you, Jeremy. In 2005, 28% of undergraduates at the University of Texas were white men.

As of this year, that number is down to 12%. So way more than 50% decline. went from 28% white men in 2005, 20 years later, it's down to 12%. In 2005, less than 4% of UT undergraduates were international students. That number now exceeds 30%. 30%. Pretty wild stats when you start boiling it down. And that doesn't even get into whole neighborhoods like Frisco, Irving, Coppel.

The entire school districts are now basically Asian students. It happened so quickly, so quickly. And I think that's what's so shocking here. And you said in your tweet, I think you said that Beau French kind of took a Trumpian effect. He played the Trump role, saying something sort of gruffly and rudely, but in a way that grabbed people's attention. Your reaction. Yeah. No, I mean, that's the thing.

And I sort of learned my lesson on this with Trump because I've always tried to speak about these issues pretty carefully. And when Trump kind of came on the scene, I was like, man, he's talking about things that are really important. but I'm not totally comfortable with, you know, some of the rhetoric he uses. But, you know, he put attention on this issue. And Beau French, you know, this is not necessarily always the way that I would choose to talk about it, the way he talks about it. But now we're talking about the amount of H-1B scams, diploma mills, the replacement of kind of the people who descended from the people who built the state of Texas

with people with very little cultural or historical ties to Texas. We're talking about those issues. So if that's what it takes, then great. And it's almost been a perfect split in the GOP in that the people who are attacking him are universally from the Karl Rove wing. And people who are defending him are universally from the America first wing. And that's actually encouraging. Yeah, absolutely. So this is the tale of two reactions here, Blake and Jeremy.

All right. So you've got, let's throw up image 177. So this is John Cornyn, who was just kicked to the curb, by the way, by the voters of Texas. So he's reacting to this tweet. He said, this is the Republican nominee for statewide office. Are other Republican elected officials going to condemn the intolerance of racism? Or look the other way while it becomes normalized. This is how great political parties self-destruct sad.

All right. To which, if you throw up 176, you see James Talrico gets in the mix. Says, thank you, John Cornyn, for your leadership. Notice what happens here. The Republican, the Rhino, basically plays the game, virtue signals, wants to say, hey, hey, hey, I'm not racist.

You can't call me racist. I am excluded. He throws up the ollie oaks so that James Tala Rico can dunk the basketball. Then Attorney General Ken Paxton doesn't take the bait. Perfect, perfect response here. I condemn racism in all its forms, which is important, folks.

Just because we have critiques about mass, you know, replacement level, immigration does not mean we give in to identity politics. We are all God's children. But he says, I condemn racism in all its forms, including James Talrico, saying white men are America's top terror threat and that he praised to overcome his own whiteness, whatever that means. Only one person in this race is a history of dividing Texans by race, and it's James Talrico. Bravo. Ken Paxton. Perfect reaction. You notice this split. You notice the tale of two reactions. What is your takeaway from it, Jeremy Carl? Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely just that Ken

Paxton has always gotten it and John Cornyn never has. And he immediately didn't, didn't kind of take the bait, didn't sort of go in for the very predictable framing and turned the fact to the turn the attention to the fact that he is running against an anti-white racist in James Talariko, who has made a number of just completely non-defensible statements about white people that, I mean, yeah, we talk about them on the right, but of course, the, the kind of so-called legacy media will just ignore. They're not going to treat it seriously. And that's what needs to be about,

because there are still enough both white voters and then other voters who don't like anti-white racism out there that if these sorts of racist comments from Tala Rico get out there, people are going to say, you know what? I don't really care what Beau French said. I don't want this guy representing me. And so they're going to go vote for Bo French. They're going to go vote for Ken Paxton,

who's been a very successful Attorney General in Texas, and that's what we need more of. Blake has a story here, Jeremy. I don't know if you've heard about it, but it involves wheelchairs. Yeah, well, it's just such a perfect illustration of that values issue we were talking about, that if you go through an airport, and this is, many of people know, if you claim you need a wheelchair to get through to get to your gate, or if you need it to get on, you're able to get that for free.

They'll often will you through security at an escalated pace. They'll put you on the plane first. And what's become a notorious problem, and Indians themselves will talk about, about this is flights that are heavily Indian or to or from India will have way more people using this service. And they themselves will talk about it. This is a post that was on Reddit from an Indian. He says, every time I take a flight to India, the line of wheelchairs is five to ten times as much as any other flight I've taken. Indians never seem to bother using other concierge options because they have this free option available if you just abuse the wheelchair

system. It's frustrating to see this pattern of Indians abusing a free system built off a universal system of social trust that will happen until the system breaks down. And I think it's just a perfect example of when you bring in a large number of people from a very different culture, a culture that might think it's much more automatic to, oh, that's a free thing I can use. I will do that. They're not going for the more traditional. If I don't really need it, I shouldn't use this thing that's meant for other people, it breaks down your country. That's what so many people are reacting to and they get upset about this. Fifteen seconds, Jeremy. Yeah, this is right. And we live in a high social trust society, or at least we have historically. I can tell you, having lived in India,

even though I had a great time there, it is not necessarily a high social trust society. And we are running right now an uncontrolled experiment about what that's going to look like when we mix those two things and mass. And I just, that's a good idea. Jeremy Carl, the man, the myth, the legend. Thank you, my friend. We'll see you soon. I had the honor of a lifetime to call Charlie a friend. And what I remember most wasn't just what people saw on stage. It was what was behind the scenes. That was an unwavering commitment to his faith, his love for his family, and his genuine desire to encourage others to live with courage and conviction. Charlie believed that following Christ wasn't something you compartmentalized. He didn't put it in a box. He lived it out loud.

It shaped how he lived, how he served, how he treated people every single day. Charlie Kirk, American Martyr, captures that heart. This documentary isn't just simply about remembering Charlie. It's an invitation for each of us to ask what kind of legacy we're building and whether we're willing to stand firm in our own faith when it's tested. I hope that you'll watch it with your family and have those conversations together. Go to angel.com slash kirk. That's angel.com slash kirk.

Become an angel guild member. watch Charlie Kirk American Martyr and help bring more stories of faith, courage, and conviction to audiences around the world. We have reduced Americanism down to, well, have you filled out your paperwork? And the left doesn't even believe that. They believe Americans just at the presence

of being in the United States of America. So what is an American? The best way I can answer it. It is someone that has demonstrated through objective measurements and markers that this is home. that you have more than respect or reverence that you're willing to die that you are all in that this is a place that you're willing to bleed for and sacrifice for this is not a dumping ground for the third world this is not a social experiment you are you are you get a tear in your eye on july 4th that you worship god not allah that you have you have a sense of weight and responsibility that you care about your fellow neighbor an american is more than just someone that has u.s. pass for it. Amen. That was Charlie, I believe in August of 2025. I was on, I was at that event with him.

Orrin McIntyre joins us now. He's a great thinker, columnist with the blaze. It's got his own show there that I check out frequently because he's smart and I like smart people. Orrin, this whole, okay, I just want to get one thing out. Okay. Bo French, the tweet goes out, goes viral. All the usual suspects come in and they go, oh, he's a terrible racist. We must condemn this. And Carl Rove and John Cornyn jump on him. And of course, James Tolrico, thanks him for their service. But then there was this second wave of everyone going to hold on a second. Hold on. This is actually a legitimate thing to be criticizing because the body politic of Texas across other states, too, by the way, this is just Texas conversation, has been transformed almost overnight. So two things can be true. We don't need to give

into identity politics, but we can absolutely have a critique about the way we do mass replacement level immigration in this country. And you've been one of the most articulate voices on this, especially when it comes to H-1Bs. So give us your take of what you make of the Beau French tweet controversy. Well, as a former high school history teacher, it's always great to be discussing the French and Indian War. But that said, I think this was actually very encouraging. previously if a Republican had said something like this, they would have been destroyed in public. We did see a lot of the Texas GOP come out and denounce Beau French. But what we saw was really a popular backing.

I think a lot of people recognized Beau French was right over the target. They sympathized with that tweet. They understood exactly what he was saying. They didn't see it as hateful. They didn't see it as vicious. They saw it as truth. They look around Texas and they recognize that, well, they don't recognize it. When I go to Dallas, it's a question of whether I'm,

I'm in Texas or Mumbai. Everybody who's in that area knows exactly what Beau French is talking about. It's not just one Texas football game. It's the entire existence of that state. When you see temples going up, you see statues to Hindu demons being erected in Texas. It should be just as offensive as when you see a mosque going up.

This is not our culture. This is not our country. And the people of Texas have a right to prefer their way of life, their faith, their heritage to others. There's nothing wrong about that. There's nothing evil about that. The Republican Party needs to be able to stand up and say this strongly.

Because if they can't, they are going to lose. We cannot see the issue to the left. We already tried to do that, and it is a failure. So what, and Blake is so good on this too. It feels like for years, the dialogue around immigration, conservatives were scared to say what you just said. And that has turned a corner. What you just said was we prefer our way of life, our culture, our values, our God, more than theirs.

As a matter of fact, we don't want to have to share a country with people that are, you know, erecting, you know, temples to foreign demons. Now, that is not a very respectful way to say it. It's a pretty blunt way to say it. But we used to not be able to say it. The whole conversation was about GDP. It was about economics. It was about the fact that Indians are so good at tech and stuff. stem and all of this this sort of thing now those two things can be true and by the way i do want to

reiterate there are a lot of good indians i was talking with abraham george uh who was the former texas opi chair just yesterday because i wanted to get his thoughts on all this stuff he goes to a pentecostal church in texas with a bunch of indians that are all pentecostals that's great that's really good assimilation is good then becoming christians is good but this mass level is i think something that is worth talking about. Now, just focus that one second for with me on, focus with me for one second on that particular part of the debate. What made us turn the corner on this debate where we're not just talking in economic terms, we're talking in cultural, we're talking in civilizational terms. I think the big turn here has been the recognition that immigration has an impact beyond just the

illegal aspect. We knew for a long time that illegal immigration was the focus. These people were breaking the law. There's a procedure you have to go through. That's what matters. And once we fix that, well, then we'll have fixed the immigration issue. But actually, we quickly discovered that it's not just illegal immigration that changes the country. It's not simply the procedure itself, the legality that matters, though we do prefer legal immigration over illegal immigration. When we look at something like the H-1B visa, which is being given 70% to people from the nation of India, we quickly recognize that this is not on merit. This is an ethnic cartel operating inside the United States.

And when we're talking about individual Indians, obviously there are fantastic individual Indians who are part of America. If every Indian is Dinesh D'Souza, we'd all be fine, right? But ultimately, the point is that when we're looking at immigration, we have to look in blocks. We have to look at general characteristics, not just look at the best example, because we're letting in so many people from the same place. They're going to bring that culture with them. Everyone recognizes if you bring all of Haiti over to the United States, it doesn't turn them all into Americans. They turn where they go into Haiti. We recognize this with Somalians.

It's the same is true with India. And it's okay to recognize that. Again, there is a manipulation of the procedural outcome that has allowed the mass migration of Indians into places like Texas. This is a manipulation of the system. And we have to be able to call that out just because it's technically legal, just like the Haitians who are here were technically legal. That doesn't mean it's good for the United States.

And another thing that I think is we should be allowed to point out because it's highly relevant is actually just in a raw political lens, we got used to hearing, for example, that Hispanics were natural conservatives when in reality they're at best natural swing voters and they usually tilt Democrat. Well, if you look at the numbers, Indian immigrants to America are among the most left-wing people in the entire country. I have an image I just sent in, let's see if they can throw that up, but it was the polling in California when they had Prop 16 And Prop 16 was the measure to re-legalize racial discrimination in California. They're going to re-legalize discrimination based on race in employment, in university admissions,

and government programs and all of that. And there was an Asian group pulled different Asian subgroups and found that Indians were by far the most supportive of it. 58% were planning to vote, yes. And that was a measure that failed, thankfully, even in California. And you'll find that a lot, a lot of embrace to the. extent that they do assimilate to the United States. It's to embrace some of the most maximally left-wing narratives about this country. And it's been pointed out as well. Frankly, we remember India was colonized by the British. A lot of the most politically engaged Indians in America

have a very, feel they have a very big grievance against British culture, against Western culture, because they think it humiliated their country. And now they have a chance to get back at it. This is simply a fact. It is a real reality that you encounter. And we should be concerned if we're going to have that be a new big part of our elite culture in the United States. One note here, Orrin, before you chime in, that this polling is really stark. I mean, that one group is way ahead of all the others. And I will say that one of, it's anecdotal, but I've heard it from a lot of people. We've gotten emails about it here on the show that when, you know, Indians get into these managerial positions where that,

actually have power to hire, they tend to favor other Indians. They tend to be insular. They create not only communities that are enclaves of, you know, balkanized Indian groups, but in the corporations that they get hired at, they tend to do the same. It's just, it seems to be a unique cultural peculiarity of the Indian culture. Your thoughts, Warren. I don't think it's even that unique. I think that's just how non-European cultures tend to behave.

I think this is actually very common among foreign cultures. and when we import in foreign cultures, we get their norms, not ours. So when we're surprised that they behave the way they normally have, well, we shouldn't be. Also, let's not forget that India has been very clear about what it's doing with its diaspora. The leaders of India, institutions of India has said that they plan to use their very large diaspora to influence politics in other countries to benefit India. So this is not a mistake. This is not some kind of confusion.

This is literally a plan that is circulated and discussed openly by Indian leaders on a regular basis. So I think it's entirely reasonable to ask the question, is the presence of this group that is going to regularly vote in the favor of Democrats beneficial to the United States? This is something that the right should be fighting for. And the answer is, of course, no. Most ethnic minorities, almost all major ethnic minority groups vote for the left. That's just an absolute reality. That's why they encourage immigration both legal and illegal. And it's even more dangerous when it comes to many Indians than many of the illegals previously because the Indians are.

entering into higher caste jobs. They are entering into college. They are entering into business leadership into government. They are not just going in and building a building. They are taking control of the apparatus that controls our culture and makes decisions about who comes in and who comes out. So they get to make decisions that benefit them. Yeah, let's play this clip here. It's a 60 minutes clip that also talks about the replacement of Americans in the workforce. It's an older clip, but it still hits hard. 203. get laid off for lack of work, I got laid off because somebody cheaper could do my job. We met with this group of workers who all had to train replacements.

I was given the news that in 90 days, my job was over, and I had to train my replacement. Never in my life did I imagine, until this happened at Disney, that I could be sitting at my desk and somebody would be flown in from another country, sit at my same desk, and sit at my same desk. desk and chair and take over what I was doing. It was the most humiliating and demoralizing thing I've ever gone through my life. It breaks my heart every time I see that clip because we've done this to ourselves. And if anybody ever points it out, racist. Can't say that. Can't notice. Now, Oren, I should say, there is a back and forth going on with, I guess, like, Peter Schiff, and Cash Patel right now. Apparently there's some blow up, and we might get to that in just a second here.

But I've noticed you've got a back and forth going with Ben Shapiro. Now, Ben Shapiro is taking sort of an opposite position than we have on this. And that's fine. We can disagree. But here's a clip from him. And I'd like to get your response to it. Top 14. Are conservatives supposed to be upset that people from different ethnic backgrounds

enjoy college football? A viral photo of like, I don't know, 30 brown students from the stands of this weekend's UT Ohio game went viral when a random low-level local GOP candidate said kind of gross things about their skin color. These are not people who are there flying the Mexican flag or the Palestinian flag or protesting for Gaza. The only evidence we have about the belief system of these people is that they are putting up the Texas hookum horns for a football team in Texas. That's literally the only thing we know about them is that they are Texas football fans. So I will say here, Orrin, before you react, you know, we have a big chapter at UT Austin.

I'm told it's a very diverse chapter. We even have, you know, Indians that are a part of the leadership there. What is, what does Ben get wrong here in your opinion? Well, first, it's kind of telling that Ben thinks the only thing that disqualifies you from being an American is having a Palestinian flag or chanting something. Very strange, very strange thing to interject there. I mean, what Ben is getting wrong here is that he's not treating America as an actual country, the way that he would like other countries to be treated. I think it's very obvious this logic breaks down almost immediately. If we put, you know, 10 million Palestinians into Israel, but they were all wearing, you know, a yamaka, would that make them Israeli?

Would that mean that that's fine? Would that be more than fine with Ben? If we moved to 10 million Indians into Israel and they all converted to Judaism and had a true and passioned devotion to Judaism. And they started sitting in all of the universities and replacing all of the previous Israelis that were in those universities. Would Ben C. no issue there? I think he recognizes immediately what the problem is, but we're pretending that America is something different. America is not a real country. America is just something anyone can be.

America is a sports team. America is a t-shirt. America is a hand sign. No, I'm sorry. Like America is a real country. We're real people, a real nation with a history, with beliefs, with traditions that we care about, a faith that means a lot to us. That's who we are. And no, sorry, you can't just lift anyone into this country and then suddenly expect that they have that same identity. I think that St. Augustine, or sorry,

rather, Thomas Aquinas was correct. That assimilation takes three generations of intermarriage, conversion to faith, and acceptance of the language. That is that time that shows that you have become one of the people. You don't suddenly become American because you happen to touch down and put on a Texas t-shirt and walk in and cheer for the team. That's just not how it works. I think what I would say in his defense is I think, I think Jeremy got at this in our previous segment as well that we have to approach this carefully because it is very easy to reduce this to just pointing and saying, I don't like the look of all the people at this sports

game. And I don't think that's a political winner. I think it kind of does look ugly. I do think we want to focus on all the real reasons. we've cited to be concerned about Indian immigration, which is that they are very left wing, according to polls, that they do seem to be a displacing elite with different values. And you should be careful about just trying to do the easy thing and saying they're at a sports game, which we probably would want them to do.

We probably do want them to the extent that they are here attending sports games and becoming big football fans because that is a part of American culture. So I think we should make note of that, that there are good. and bad ways to approach this issue. And I think, as Jeremy said, Bo, he did us a favor by making it so people are talking about this, but it's probably not the way we should all go about talking about it. Well, and I will say to your point, though, Oren, the fact that America is so large, you made the contrast with Israel. And I think, you know, Israel is the size of New Jersey. It's got a 10, 12 million person population. It's so much easier to sort of visualize that and understand the fragility of

a population mix. But America, you know, we've got 350 million people scattered from coast to coast. It's harder to feel the impacts of these diaspros when they come in in such waves until you have people actually in Texas saying, hey, I don't recognize Frisco anymore. I don't recognize parts of Austin anymore. And to your point, it's just, you know, I remember Charlie actually got embroiled in some controversy with this. Or somebody asked him, you know, if America's population was replaced with 350 million Indians and they were all Christian, would they still be Americans? And he kind of got, I think he claimed that he misheard the type of the question, but it is a, it is without a deeper level of analysis, a trickier question. But the answer is no, it wouldn't still be America because what you said,

we have a heritage, we are a people, we are a real country, we talk about George Washington, we talk about Thomas Jefferson, we talk about the founding fathers or the Tea Party and all of these things. It's all of these shared collective memories in, and, in, and, and, you know, values and our God that make a people a people. And so the ethnicity, when it has different values, different religion, it does matter and it does change things. And you're allowed to prefer your own culture. And that is a tremendous development in this discourse, Oren. Yeah, I think that's exactly correct. We have to be able to have this discussion. We have to take this head on. Okay, look, the left is going to be able to discuss this topic. And they are going to be able to set the

frame. So the question is, do we want to see yet another critical topic to the future of the American of the left, or do we want to have a difficult conversation that might make some people unhappy? Ultimately, we have to know what an American is. We have to be able to answer that question. Any country that cannot answer that question will not survive into the future. And we are in no way immune from that. Now, ultimately, that doesn't mean that we have to be ugly to people. And I do think that Jonathan Pajot talks a lot about how in previous cultures in different times, the definitions of identity were fuzzier. They existed. They were real, but they had more play in the joints, more around the edges. And I think what the problem is here is everyone wants a

hard, fast definition. They can easily quantify so they can argue about it. But the truth is that American identity is real, but it has fuzzy boundaries. There are some people who are going to be able to assimilate, some people who are going to make it in to be a in a way that other people are not. That doesn't mean that America isn't real. It doesn't mean we shouldn't have a real identity and treat ourselves as a real nation, but it also means that it might be a little more flexible than previous understandings of ethnicity or nationhood. And that's okay.

Ultimately, though, we still have to have a real conception. I think that's really fascinating, actually. The flex in the joints. America does have a distinct identity. But maybe one of its features, one of the beautiful things about it, is that there is a little bit more flex in the joints. There's a little bit more fuzziness so more people can be a part of it. But that doesn't mean that we don't have a defined nature, value system, heritage, culture, history, which I certainly want to fight to maintain and continue on for next generations.

Orrin McIntyre, great to see you, my friend. Thanks for making the time for us. Fascinating discussion. Went really quick today, Blake, really quick. We'll see you guys tomorrow. Hopefully Blake will be joining us in studio. Pray for his flights. Talk to you then.

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