The Chaser Report - Another Leo Puglisi Interview | Leo Puglisi & John Delmenico

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

As if Leo hadn't been on enough news shows in the last week, he's on ours too! Chaser editor John Delmenico interviews the 6News anchor to find out why this teenager hates teenagers being safe from bullies online. FOLLOW 6NEWS HERE Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report is recorded on Gatigal Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report for another new episode. It's John Domenico editor of The Chaser here. After yesterday where Domini joked about how you can't go to any news show without Leo Paglisi popping up in the last two weeks. We've decided to do exactly that for this podcast. So please welcome back Leo Paglisi. How's it going, Leo? It's good to be here. It's good to be here.

Another long line of interviews. Obviously, you have talked a lot about being against the social media ban for teens. So I guess the first question is, why do you hate teenagers? I hate teenagers because they're endlessly scrolling on TikTok. They're endlessly scrolling on Instagram. No, the fact is we, well, it's not worded in an out-of-context way given I'm turned 17. But, you know, we respect teenagers here. I don't know if the government does, though.

All right, we'll get more into that in a second after these ads. So, Leo, normally six news stays pretty far away from giving its own opinion. Why on this story have you given your opinion so much, not specifically through six news, but through a bunch of other outlets? Yeah, well, I think that the one thing is, and, you know, initially, yeah, was it through other outlets. That formal submission we made to the inquiry was on behalf of six needs. We've never taken a step like that. I think that kind of goes to show how bad of an issue or how bad of a proposal this is that we're taking that step.

Look, the one thing we've always said is that we will always speak up if we need to and maybe take an editorial stance or something that is really directly hyper-affecting us, right? And this is, this is affecting some of our journalists, some of them are 15, right? Some of them have been 13 and 14. You know, I was once a 14-year-old being interviewed on this very podcast, but the reality is it's something that directly affects us, and I just won't sit by and let it happen. Well, what do you think about the allegation that the Prime Minister has brought this forward to before the election in order to avoid getting grilled by six news again? I think I like the name, the Get Leo Law. I think that's got a good ring to it. I mean, the prime, he was happy, he was happy to speak to me when I was 14, and my colleague Roman McKinnon when he was 13, Now, not so much.

I mean, look, to his credit, and I appreciate it when he said at the time, you know, he said it was a fantastic initiative and all of that. And I had a great chat with him and I look forward to speaking with him again, but apparently, you know, not so much. I don't know if, you know, 2024 Albo would be interviewed on 2020, 6 News anymore. Well, I think 2024 Albo would need to have an earpiece in talking to focus groups just to make sure that what he's saying doesn't go past any of the polling done by Redbridge. Now, as a teenager, do you think this would actually work?

Do you think that people your age will just go ahead and stop using TikTok and stop using Snapchat just because the government tells them to? No, because you see something like this when you're at the age of 14, you know, I've got a younger brother who's 14 and, you know, she's going to go like, well, you know, there go on my friends and, you know, what I do for entertainment and what I like doing, they're not going to do that. Tell a young person not to do something, they're a lot more likely to do it. Now, it's not about social media. Like, what, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, it'd be, don't buy this video game. 30, 40 years ago, it'll be don't sneak out to see this movie, right? It's just a continuous cycle of this. Every few years, there's a new boogeyman, right?

Video games. Or before that, it was television. I'm sure the silent film was a big danger in the 1920s, right? It's just endless like this. I mean of course the silent film was a big danger Those words popping up on that screen were very intense And you've got to work around them Charlie Chaplin was a dangerous figure

For teenagers to be seen He's got to be banned What's it been like trying to cover this story Because I mean yesterday on the Chase report We had a breakdown of all the information we knew And in that 24 hours We've since had that this bill might be unconstitutional The government has backed down on using ID

And so now no one knows how this is going to work And again more of the details Just seem to be changing on a whim How is it like trying to cover something that is just this much of a cluster fuck? I mean, it's impossible. It is completely impossible. Like, I've been going through three hour, two hour exams during this. I've had six of them in the past, like, a month or so.

And it seems every time I come out of it, I've got 20 new media interview requests, and there's 20 different platforms that have been added or removed, and the law has completely changed. It's impossible. It is completely impossible. YouTube, likely, now not likely. Snapchat, exempt, now not exempt. And also, we have to remember, there are going to be new social media platforms created always. Imagine talking about Blue Sky 24 months ago, right?

Or threads for that one, like, three-day period where everyone used threads. You know, it's impossible, and it just, it's maddening. I have to say, on that first point, if it was found unconstitutional, I think that would be the funniest thing, if we just can't implement it, because ultimately it's just not allowed under the Constitution. What a terrible show. I stand by the funniest option being that the American government steps in because this is going to sanction both Elon Musk and Donald Trump, who are now key figures in the US politics.

Imagine if Trump just shirt front's elbow over this, at NATO or something. I hope there's trade sanctions. Imagine getting sanctioned by America over the... It's not outside the realm of possibility with Trump. And then obviously, or this causes the orchestra fall apart or something. Just, if this causes orchestra fall apart, then maybe I'll support the bill. We can save that $360 billion. Spent it on online safety.

No, I can't do that. Can't have that. That's not the solution. Got to forget about that. We can invest that money back into getting more gambling ads out. Like, I mean, that is one thing. I'm sure kick.com, which for any listeners who don't know, is a streaming service set up by an Aussie gambling company because Amazon said that that company couldn't advertise to kids on their

platform. I'm sure. What we need, no, what we need because we're both on Twitter, what we need are more stake ads. We need more money into steak. That's what we really need. Yeah, steak is the gambling company

for those who don't know. And steak's great. I mean, Richard Miles has been hanging out with the leader, with the CEO of Steak. So, you know, obviously this is a big platform for them. And if there's one thing that this government loves, it is slot machines. If Steak can figure out a way to make slot machines

and a kid's platform and sports gambling, all come into one, they might get a cabinet seat. That's huge. On a serious question, do you think this bill could actually achieve something? In its current form, no. I think it's only going to achieve more dissent from young people. I said, right, they're going to get around it.

I know they're going to get around it. At the very, very least, if there's any silver lining, it started a discussion about how to keep people safe on social media. Now, somehow we've gone to a proposal that doesn't do that at all. I don't know how we've got there. It is really, that's the only hope. Other than that, you know, it's also gotten me like 20 interviews a day, which, you know, it's nice. So I'm not going to complain about that.

Are you being paid for these interviews, or is this unpaid internship sort of idea? No, it's a little fun, unpaid internship that I seem to do every single hour of every waking day at this point. I have noticed, we're not going to do this because I'm too lazy, but have noticed that some outlets, when they've interviewed you, have turned a three-minute interview into like 10 different social media clips. Have you learnt tips from these outlets on how to just clickbait the hell out of your own name? It's great. I mean, I'm getting jump-skared scrolling on TikTok and just seeing a Leo Paglisi interview pop up, right? I mean, look, it's just, at this point, I can pretty much say the answers to these questions. in my sleep, right? It's just the same line over and over. But then again, I have to change which platforms are being included or not, because as you say, it's changing literally every single

hour by the time we're done with this recording. I'm sure it'll change as well. Well, have you considered, on Six News, doing what Peter Ben-oncelain genuinely does in the Daily Mail, where in the headlines of your stories, you put your own name in capital letters? I think that's the real thing people want, right? What does Leo Paglisi have to say about this legislation? Just get me to comment on it. You know, six after dark. When is six news gonna start covering RuPaul's Drag Race? That's what I want to know.

I want to know who the real winners of Drag Race are and it has to be decided by the Six News team. We'll get our elections reporter on it or something. We can look at winners and losers there. But, I mean, if we can see the content, of course, unless it's banned, you know. And more on what content will and won't be banned after these messages? The Chaser Report.

More news. less often. You've said that you don't think this will achieve much outside of this conversation that's also not going anywhere. What do you think the biggest problem with it is in case any of our listeners are unsure about what's actually wrong with it?

Yeah, well, it's hard to find one at this point. But again, and I'm accounting for the fact that ID seems to be taken out of the question as of three hours ago. So I'll move on to the next one, which I'd say is it doesn't account for vulnerable kids, right? The government keeps saying, this is about protecting young people. I think, you know, the Prime Minister, he's used that line. I'm calling time on it, right? And it doesn't

account for any vulnerable kids who use social media for good. They're in a remote area, maybe, or they don't have a safe school life or a home life, and they're able to find a community online that makes them feel safe, which is important. Or maybe they've been able to find friends about it. You know, you look at a few years ago, imagine, trying to get through lockdown as a teenager without having some communication with your mates online, impossible, utterly impossible. And so none of that's accounted for. It's a complete blanket ban.

Even if a parent, even if a parent is fine with it, no exemptions at all. The parent's thing has been a weird backflip where because of how logical it is, that especially for the teens who are currently on social media, that you would have like parents being able to let them stay on social media until they are old enough to make the decision themselves. Weirdly, the government has backed with that too. I do love how openly the government is just not even pretending to have any sort of clue at what they're doing. They're just running full speed ahead, hoping that nobody really questions what they're doing. And also, the fact that, like, this is hard, this is getting hard to satirize from the chaser end,

not because it's like a really good policy, but because it's so bizarre in how everything's being handled that it's weird to see a logic lines. I mean, yesterday, On this podcast, we joked that threads and Facebook will be exempt from the ban because their users aren't young enough to be affected anyway. And then today, LinkedIn has actually argued that. LinkedIn has fully put out a statement saying that they think they should be exempt because teenagers are not using LinkedIn. And can I just say on that? What's amazing? What's amazing is that LinkedIn is even having to say that?

You remember the proposal that the PM endorsed a few months ago, whatever it was, 36 months, I think was the one, or maybe it was make it 16 there's been a lot of these campaigns on it um but it specifically i remember it had linked in there right it had youtube i mean what are we even doing at this point there is no i mean part from maybe me but there is no teenager who seriously uses LinkedIn not not just in 2024 in ever no one is talking about these platforms but like i mean this is the thing right kids are going of you know use these platforms that even the government's not going to not going to know about i mean just just, you can tell them anything at this point. It's just, it's stunning that we've been talking about LinkedIn. Although I would support anything to keep teens away from

LinkedIn, more just because LinkedIn is really annoying. That is, that's a fair measure. LinkedIn is not a safe space for anyone. No, LinkedIn, LinkedIn should be wiped out. You, so you brought up the fact that this is going to negatively harm a lot of children. Have you considered, though, the prime minister today said that this will cause kids to do more sport? I just don't get where that I thought that through that somehow magically, while we're also letting kids play video game still, because obviously kids are making the choice between scrolling Instagram or doing sport. You can't do both, and they're not completely separate ideas. It's one or the other.

It's a binary choice. You're forced to make it 13. Oh, absolutely. I mean, that is the most important choice when you become a teenager, right? And obviously, there's no choice anymore, apparently. I just, I'm stunned by it. Like, I'll use my little brother again. He plays on a footy team and also uses TikTok and he's 14 years old.

This is real. I know it might seem like a really, really radical concept here. It might be hard to believe, but you can have both and it's fine to have both. I know, I'm a really, really hard concept to grasp. Also, we should clarify for any of the listeners, Cricky has confirmed that TikTok would be able to get around the band. It has been confirmed today that Crick, that TikTok has the same thing that YouTube does. that is why YouTube is getting an exemption.

And they didn't even need the Wiggles to back them up. That is amazing. And I'm sure any of the parents who support the band would love to hear that TikTok is getting an exemption. I think at this point we're going to get enough exemptions that there will be not a single platform covered under this legislation with the way we're going. It's an exemption a day.

I mean, also, like, genuinely, I have reached out to the government about truth social and have not gotten anything back from them yet on that. I wonder what Parlor is going to be like, or gab. Or Telegram or, you know, no one used to thread. Telegram will be fine. Telegram, one of the one of the one that experts say should be banned is not getting banned because it is a messaging set. Like, it's this weird, it's such a weird, like it's obviously a pre-election employee, right?

Like the government wants good headlines to follow the election. But they chose, they could have gone with the ban, they're cracking down and gambling, but instead they've gone with this just absolute, like, absolute cluster fuck. Literally, any, any campaign about this, you swap out half the language. language that's been about social media, you replace it with gambling ads. I guarantee that's going to get you a lot more support and a hell of a lot less opposition, right? Right, like, who is, who is, who is the, you've got the gambling lobby and that'll be about it, right? And social media, you are getting, I think, I mean, I know they talk about bipartisan support on this, but this has been

some of the, like, the most bipartisan opposition ever. We've got, you know, the Greens, One Nation, the Libertarians, Matt Canavan, young Labor left New South Wales, everyone is just ganging up on this proposal. It's just every single area it's attacking. They've managed to bring a divided nation together. In a time of heated division, especially post-Trump, they brought everyone together. It's beautiful. What the fuck are you doing? Although one thing I do want to brag about just because I remembered it is that people who have the Chase the Annual will be able to say that in there we had a page called Chase a bet and the joke um what will Labor do about gambling companies

and the cheapest odds was fuck all at a dollar and five cents so anyone who bet on Chase a bet about what the guy that's going to do about gambling ads you can get a five cent payout it's good odds it's great it's great how bloody obvious they are in that they've turned that that joke true just in time for the the pages coming out but they're still going ahead with the social media ban whatever the social media ban ends up being I'm still not sure what it's going to be at this point because the amount of changes that are continuing to come in and who knows how it's going to be delayed and then they're saying oh 12 months from now we'll implement it now look realistically we don't know who the government's going to be in 12 months like like I just we don't know what it's going to be and I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this it either goes into two things it's either simply check a box and it's just the change of the term of service for Australian audiences and that's it or Facebook just says

We're going to withdraw from Australia because we won't implement this and then mysteriously it all goes away. And that hasn't even mentioned a certain owner of Twitter who is definitely not going along with this based on every single public statement. And I wonder if he knows a certain incoming US president as well. Well, something, I say that Don't point out, yes, it is it is brave for Peter Dutton to stand up against Elon Musk like this after Elon Musk gave Trump the win. Like they could cash in on that conservative outrage, but instead they're still. sticking with their roots with the Murdoch outrage instead. I just, I think, you know, Elon, he already had his fight over something, the safety commission or whatever it was.

That feels like it was a year ago at this point. But, but it's just this, it's back and forth. I mean, look, we are living in the greatest era where we're able to see a billionaire fight with a government and opposition from overseas about social media bans and we're seeing it all on the platform that we're apparently not going to be allowed on. Like, I just, it's, it's, this is. is this is what the internet was made for this is what they designed with the worldwide web in mind this

this entire situation has has come now isn't it beautiful isn't this lovely isn't this is just great what we're doing i mean something i want to something i want to point out is you hear a lot about how toxic the internet is now as if there was ever a point when it wasn't toxic like when millennials were the younger generation the internet was mainly people kept telling justin be able to kill himself and ISIS beheading video and like objectively we've moved Twitter got us almost back Elon Musk's Twitter has got us almost back to there but we are still slightly better than we were back then but even even 20 years ago and then look you know the boomers from 20 years ago even then I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure you know you look at the chat rooms that they had or something

are we talking about going back to those because they wouldn't be banned under this we're talking about, you know, 4chan is the safe space for a 14-year-old now. Well, I think I've come up with a solution to it all. Clearly, the way to make this work, and I'm assuming the government's already working on this, is they must just have like a magic lamp. They have a magic lamp, they rub it, they're going to get three wishes, and one of those wishes will obviously be to have this to work perfectly. And then, all of the experts, all the naysayers,

they are not taking in the Australian spirit that goes behind, getting behind a mate and using a magical wish on a genie to get a policy done. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's got to have mateship when it comes to this, don't we? It's got, got to be total unity behind this proposal. I mean, even if all these experts say it's bad, you know, we've got to make sure we do it. And we've got to make sure, I think, what was Peter doesn't say? Christmas, right? We're recording this on the 26th of November. Let's just shove this in the next 29 days, right? There's, this is clearly something that can be very, very easily implemented. You know, this isn't something that would famously take some time, just implemented right now. As soon as you go on holidays, Goodbye social interaction. Goodbye friendships. To be fair, do we need social media on Christmas? Do we need all the Instagram posts that are just people with the hats from the bonbons? Do we really need those?

I think a 24-hour break would be a good use of policy. You never know what you're going to, what you're experiencing if it suddenly goes away, you know. We'll all love it in the end. You get some great posts. And also, you know, whenever your Christmas lunch gets awkward about, you know, one hour in, you can quickly sneak away and see what, you know, the Americans are up to or something. I mean, the good news about this bill is those Christmas lunch talks, you can finally cross the table, you know? The strong progressives and the strong conservatives finally have something

like, like when your racist uncle starts going on a rant, you can just bring up a social media ban and all of a sudden, that'll be a nice, nuanced conversation going down. It's nice. And I think that's a magical gift for this country. It's a beautiful thing, isn't it, this unity? But also, you know, For me, I'm screwed because I've got to have every relative under the sun asking me my thoughts on this. Look, at this point, I'm just going to send him a link to this podcast, right? I don't think I'm going to say it a hundredth time.

All right. Well, I think that's probably where we should wrap it up. And the good news is, if anyone wants to see Leo, you can either go to six news or I assume just watch tonight's TV news where Leo will be on every station. But where can they mainly find you, Leo? Yeah, well, as far as this ban goes, they still can. So just go to at 6 News A.E, numeral not the word, 6 NewsAU, all the good platforms, 6NewsA.U.com, just search up 6news on YouTube. I think at this point if you Google us, you can find us as well. But we'll see if the Get Leo law changes that.

But at the moment, just go to at 6 NewsA, you and I'm on Twitter, Leo underscore Paglisi 6. And when the social media band comes in, I'm assuming you'll be able to see Leo on the street of Melbourne holding up newspapers. yelling out like a schoolboy from the 1800s, telling people to get the headlines. We are part of the Icona class network. We'll see you tomorrow.