The Chaser Report - Extra - The Nuance of Cancel Culture

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

Dom, James, Charles & Zoe Norton Lodge chat about the nuance and complications around cancel culture in a surprisingly sophisticated conversation. Plus, Rebecca De Unamuno is back with all the news you can't trust. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report, Global World International News Headlines Update, with Rebecca Dayunamuno. The Prime Minister has apologised to Kevin Rudd after he erroneously accused Mr Rudd of jet-setting around the world. The apology means that the Prime Minister has now apologised to everyone he needs to, except for stranded Aussies, bushfire victims, the environment, Robodet. victims and pretty much everyone else in Australia. President Donald Trump has today announced that his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, has contracted coronavirus in what may be the best news yet for Trump's legal bid to overturn the election. Mr Giuliani will undergo hotel quarantine at the four seasons total landscaping centre. Scott Morrison has slammed the decision by an

international climate change summit to exclude him from attending after he vowed to turn up and lie about climate change. Mr Morrison said the climate change debate needed to to consider all sides, including the completely untrue side of the argument, which he says is woefully underrepresented at the summit. That's it for the headlines. Go to chaser.com.com for more updates. Now it's time for Zoe, James, Charles and Dom. Thanks, Beck.

Yes, on this mini episode of The Chaser Report, we have James Schleffel of the shovel, Charles Firth, Dom Knight and Zoe Norton Lodge of Reputation Rehab. And Zoe, how are you? Well, I'm just making a TV show called Reputation Rehab that we talked about a few weeks ago where I've been taking a forensic look at some of Australia's finest outrage scandals. Most recently, Todd Carney and the Bubler. Ah, yeah. That's evergreen content.

Evergreen content. Yeah. Well, it was really, it was really, really interesting to speak to him and to learn a little. little bit about what really happened and how different that is to the way it's settled into the public consciousness and also to hear what, you know, what other people, what real people, you know, remember about the scandal. But right now, are we allowed to spoil it or are we, you want people to watch it on my view? Because I'd love to ask you some questions about it, which is, please. So basically he claims that the whole bubbly incident was actually just like

a photographic trick, wasn't it? It was just like, it's a, just, the common thing that you do when you're in a toilet is you make it look as though you're bubbling into your mouth when in fact it's actually just, you know, going behind you or something, isn't it? Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's an optical illusion that apparently lots of, you know, he's not definitely not the first person to do it. It, you know, it's kind of one of those like bro things that might happen at a party or whatever. It's like a trick. It's like a sort of a joke, basically and um because after you said that

I went back and looked it doesn't look like a trick it looks like he bloody bubbling into his mouth but wasn't he quite pissed so he might have meant to the photographic illusion but missed is that what happened um look it's possible but the impression I get is that it wasn't his first time

doing the optical illusion so I think it's just a really good optical illusion and um you know and certainly um you know like what was interesting to us was that, you know, it was certainly not even the craziest indiscretion of his, but certainly not of an NRL player. You know, there's been, there's obviously been so many incidents

and sometimes about serious ones in the NRL. And this is sort of just a photograph that was taken in a toilet without his consent or awareness. And the first he heard about it, it was on the internet. And it's like a basically, uncensored picture where his penis is out that somebody put on the internet

and I think that you know it was a while ago now but I think if it happened today I feel like we have slightly different language and framing and I think it would have kind of gone down or I hope it would have gone down a little bit differently

hmm that's very strange I'm just thinking Zoe we're nearing the end of the podcast season for this year our mad Monday is not far away I'm worried about Charles frankly I think the chances of him spinning out of control in some public setting are quite high I've been practising

I just didn't realise it was a magic illusion I thought you had to go through with it What do you do I mean what's the sort of first thing for our response What have you learned from the series About how to deal with You know getting cancelled Yeah

I mean I should be asking You guys as members of the Chaser And the the show Have you ever been cancelled, James? Yet to be cancelled, but I'm sure it's just around the corner. Oh, mate, me too. And you can come on our show. But I mean, I think that what we've learned from everyone we've spoken to,

and we spoke to people from, you know, all sorts of, you know, who've suffered a public scandal in all sorts of different ways on the sports arena or on reality TV, you know, just civilians going about their. business, you know, all sorts of things. And I think that it is very hard to cut through when a media narrative is established. And it's like, this is who you are. This is what you did. And it's just people keep repeating it and repeating it and reinforcing it and reinforcing it. And it's very, very, very hard to change it. And the response to what you should do in the first 24 hours, it really depends. Like if you have done something and you,

you know, on reflection, you actually think there is something to apologise for. I think a genuine apology goes a long way. It really does. People have like, and a bad apology will get you in even more trouble. We apologise. That's what we did. Unfortunately, it was

us, I know and took it seriously, but it was probably the best option at the time. Yet, I want it, is Pete Evans... What are you talking about, Dom? Like, after our worst scan, the make a wish thing, we sincerely apologize. Yeah, which appears in episode 8, of our show. I know. I'm forward promoting. Yeah. Yeah. So you, but you guys apologize, yeah.

We did. We did. And it didn't quite work, but it put out some of the fires. Is Pete Evans too hard for series two? The number of things. Is he irredeal? Do you have Nazis on your show? That's a really good question. People often ask me this. And I think it's really interesting. We don't really talk about cancel culture on our show because I hate the term. And I hate the term because it mean something different to everyone and it's kind of politicized it's politicized in the way that political correctness is politicized like you can't just it people think something different when you when they hear it so with people so but we cancel everyone right like it doesn't matter whether it's a small indiscretion or like a you know a war crime like they they they can be potentially

we don't we don't cancel war criminals in this country so well I don't know but I mean that's the thing. Like, do we? I don't know. But... You just told the endless inquiries into them, don't he? Yeah, but that's the thing. That's what I'm saying, Charles. It's like, what does cancelling mean? Like, it's very, it's a very, very wishy-washy term that,

that I think inflames more than it assists, to be really honest. But someone like Pete Evans, good question. Absolutely, I wouldn't necessarily do Pete Evans, because he, what we discuss in our core team,

is does the punishment fit the crime? Yes. So we have to, we decide like does the media narrative that ensued, the hounding that ensued, the abuse that ensued, the harm that was done, does that in any way match up

with whatever the person did to begin with? And also we have to, you know, like it is kind of like, as we all would know, it's bloody hard to get a TV show up it's a privilege to have one up and you have a certain level of responsibility especially when you're doing something quite you know ambitious and

you know you're really trying to say something like so there's you know I'm not like going to waste that half you're just not wanting to be cancelled because you're featuring Pete Evans you're just worried about cancel being cancelled yourself who fucking isn't worried about being cancelled oh yeah god But everyone's so worried about it.

Oh, my God. But also, I mean, would you defend Pete Evans? Genuine question? How much is in it? It depends on how many books I can sell. But also, I think with Pete Evans and people like him, he's actually benefiting out of the controversy, and he's probably doing it on purpose.

Oh, yeah, he's a troll. And his followers love it, which is very different from someone who doesn't intend to get cancelled. Yeah, and you can cure cancellation on the biotcharger, right? And the proof of that is that Pete Evans, if you troll Pete Evans, he'll retweet your tweet. Yes. And you get fantastic numbers on your website.

Both James and I have done that on our respective websites, haven't me? Absolutely. Well, that's it for the podcast this week. Sorry. Guys, I'm just saying, you know, that's, yeah, that's interesting, James. Because, like, in your, you present a really recent. an argument that he hasn't been cancelled. So that's why cancellation, the whole concept, is so unhelpful

because you can just debate it any way you like. But also it's different for different people. I think, you know, I see cancellation or call out culture, whatever we want to call it, is it stopping people from saying things that otherwise say? And I think in the case of Pete Evans, absolutely not. Like he continues to post and say ridiculous things. But for other people, you know, maybe it restricts, restricts them. And maybe that's more, you know, impactful for them.

And I think, like, that's a really good point, James. And I think on our show, what we really learn as well is, as well as just people feeling restricted about what they can say. It can do a lot of damage to people mentally. Like a lot of these people caught enormous amounts of abuse that they do see, that they do read, you know. We had a, we interviewed a reality TV contest. who came second on The Bachelor and when the show went to air she was receiving death threats

and all sorts of stuff and she played one for us on the show and it's really harrowing like it's just a horrible, horrible thing to hear so I think that you know like people like even celebrities are quite accessible like if you want to kind of you know abuse somebody

it's pretty easy to do if you want to watch Zoe's show of course you can check out Iview. If you want to check out The Chaser, you go to chaser.com. com. If you want to check out The Shovel, forget the Chaser, just go to the shovel website. Theshel.com.com.com.com. Also, you can watch my show at 9.05 p.m. on Wednesday nights.

Ashley, you should. Ratings or a thing. Oh, actually, if you don't have a ratings box, watch it on I View.