The Chaser Report - Gambling on WW3

Episode Date: March 2, 2025

Trump and Zelenksy's big meeting in the Oval Office went about as well as you could expect. So what does this mean for the future of world peace? Obviously this question can only be answered by Charles and Dom.Watch OPTICS on ABC iview here:https://iview.abc.net.au/show/opticsCheck out more Chaser headlines here:https://www.instagram.com/chaserwar/?hl=enFind hot Putins in your area:https://chaser.com.au/support/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report is recorded on Gatigal Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report with Dom and Charles. Charles, you don't have the cards right now. Stop. Why aren't you wearing a suit? Show some gratitude. Have you said thank you once?

Yes, I did. I really did. I said it at the beginning of the meeting. You're not holding any cards right now. You went to Pennsylvania, Charles. and campaign for the opposition in October. What? Offer some words of appreciation for your fellow podcaster who's trying to save your career.

I'm sorry, I just want my home, Beck. You're not winning this. You're not serious about peace. Come back when you're serious about peace. Okay. You don't have the cards. See what we did there? That was an analogy based on the,

oh my gosh, let's just tear a little bit of the real. Exchange between J.D. Vance, who was the main instigator, really? I think Donald Trump and Vladimir Zelenskyy of Ukraine. Here it is. You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there.

You're people are dying. You're running low on soldiers. Listen, you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing. And then you tell us, I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire. I want to go and I wanted this. Look, if you could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it.

So the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. we want to stop the war. But you're saying you don't want a ceasefire. I want a ceasefire. I want a ceasefire. Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than a degree. An unnerving parallel, wouldn't you say, Charles? Oh, yeah.

Your acting ability is just amazing. I know. That's why I didn't make into optics. All right. Things have changed, though, quite significantly in the course of that. Yeah, well, actually, Rory Stewart had a really good point on the rest of his politics on Friday afternoon, which was that it is very rare that you, can have a single identifiable pivot point in the trajectory of global relations.

Yeah, and on camera. The last time was Archduke Ferdinand, you know, of Austria. I'm pretty sure Rory would think it was when they started the rest of politics, but yeah. Well, yes. But the point is, yeah, and this one was on camera, but this will definitely be written up in the history books as the moment that the North Atlantic lines shattered. Even though it's sort of been bubbling there And I think European leaders

All during the week What was it astrounding was You know, Kirstama turns up on what Wednesday Yeah, Manuel Macaron was there as well Or kissing the ring Kissing Larin Salingi walks in They ambush him

And it's great And the best thing about I think that whole thing was I think Zolensky was dumbfounded And bemused And sort of shocked And overall Because he would have known something was coming right

Because he'd been playing their bluffs all we should get into it later on But the astounding thing was Donald Trump was the victim We played the victim in that negotiation And it's an astounding role to play As the President of the biggest military superpower in the world To be the victim In that scenario It was very mean

And not just him He and Putin together were the common victims of the Russia, Rush, Russia I think Now, Charles, what we might do is tax some ads. And then maybe we'll come back. Maybe you can show your superior acting by berating me after this. And then we'll actually get into analysing what this is all about. You know what I would have done if I'd been in the role?

Well, I had to do it because you start the podcast. That's the... Oh, I see, right. Oh, okay. So you want me to play that role. Yeah, okay, well, this is good. Okay. I can't remember...

The problem is I don't... I can't remember what he said. But what I would have said is, Dom, get out. out right now. So that's my serious force. That's your parenting. That's my parenting. No, that is not good enough, Dom.

I want you to go outside and think about what you've done. Go back to your invaded country. And I hope a Russian bomb falls on. Go and sit on the naughty steps in Chernobyl. The radioactive naughty step. All right, so, I mean, wasn't he wearing a suit, Charles? He never wears a suit. He's at war.

He's not going to wear a suit while he's at war. He's the commander of a military that's at war. at the moment it's a symbolic gesture it really is symbolic it says i'm not like the rest of you yes exactly which i think would have pissed off trump anyway to sort of um be the most theatrically interestingly dressed in the room but no but i think the the the thing that fascinates me about this is i i think all week and probably all month everyone's been sort of pretending that america's not the sort of neo-fascist russia aligned state that it now is.

Well, this is the thing. They'd pretended, when Donald Trump said all this stuff that made it clear that he was really anti-Zilinski. He called him a dictator. Called him the aggressor in the war, like basically opposite sketch stuff.

Yeah. And others walked it back, right? Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, bizarre enough, he walked it back. Others walked, the negotiator walked it back. And Trump himself said what? They called, you know, Ukraine. The aggressor, I didn't say that.

They tried to flip it around in the service of this rare earth minerals deal. And this is the fascinating thing about all this, is that Zelensky went there to sign this deal that was not good for Ukraine, clearly, where there'd be no security guarantees for Ukraine. America would own half the very valuable minerals, which, by the way, they're desperate to try and stop China from getting all of in the world, which are used for weapons. So America really needs these minerals. And ironically enough, as a result of what happened in the Oval Office, Zelensky walked out of there without signing over his country's rare earth

minerals. So in a way, it was good for him because he didn't have to give it all away in return for nothing. America was going to do nothing in return for signing the deal. But that's because what was happening was there was a whole lot of bluffs. Like the whole minerals deal was a bluff, right? Like Trump came out earlier in the week and said, you've got to give us $350 billion worth of minerals because that's how much we spend on the wall. A figure that is actually untrue. Completely untrue. But it's more like a hundred and something billion, like a hundred. 115 billion. But Zelensky just called the bluff.

He just went, oh, okay, yeah, I'll do that. If that's what you need to, you know, I'm very grateful as it's sort of thing. Yeah, to save the alliance. And so, and what was the other bluff that happened during the week where, oh yeah, that's right. He said Trump called Zelensky a dictator. Yes. Right, because they suspended elections once the war was.

As you do. Yes. And as apparently the Ukrainian constitution demands that you do. Yes. And Zelensky said, oh, well, if we get a security guarantee from America, if we get a ceasefire, I will resign. He called the bluff again. And so all week, the White House has been in this sort of thing of like, oh, hang on, we're used to people folding. Like, we're used to dealing with people like Anthony Albanese and Kia Starmer and Macron and people like that who just literally don't know even how to play the poker that they're playing.

All of whom we should say Have had this This fairly rational approach Of not engaging with the extreme stuff And talking up how much they love the alliance And how great Donald Trump is So they're flattering him And then where they obviously disagree with him

They're trying to minimize that And pretend that it's sort of You can't, you have to be consistent Yeah Sorry pretend that there's no need to be consistent Between disagreeing with Donald Trump And not thinking he's amazing That the alliance is in great shape

Yes, yes, exactly An interesting line to walk, particularly now when the Europeans have all come out firmly on the side of Zelensky. But this is the point, is that Ukraine is an ally, and Ukraine was a strategic ally to contain Russia. The whole idea originally was to get Ukraine more Western a line, which worked very, very well, so that you have this buffer and that Ukraine potentially joins NATO, bringing NATO all the way up to Russia's doorstep, basically, which is Putin's worst fear, except what's very clear from that meeting. is that Donald Trump and his regime do not view Zelensky as an ally at all, whether they make a deal with him or not, there's no friendliness, there's no warmth, and there's no idea

that maybe having a democracy in Ukraine is actually a good thing at all or worth trying to preserve. Yeah, no, exactly. And I think more than that, there's no sense that America is a steadfast ally of Europe anymore. Or of democracy. Or of the idea that you don't, and admittedly, America has been quite hypocritical on this front, But there's no consistency about, well, actually, you shouldn't just invade your neighbor and kill a lot of people.

That's that idea. Mind you. I kind of feel like America's sort of pioneered that had a motive war. If it goes to look what we do and what we say, yeah. Yeah, Guatemala, I mean, they tried it in Cuba. What about the Philippines? The Philippines was long before any of that. Well, I mean, Iran, you know, 54.

Oh, Philippines is going back to the 19th century. So the point being, yes, America has form with this sort of stuff, but they also claim to be, you know, the beacon of democracy in the world. The beacon's not looking particularly bright at this point in time, particularly from Kiev. But I think in some ways you go, look, this is terrible for the modern liberal order, the rules-based order that we've known since we were born. Well, we've said it was the rules-based order that we said was a thing.

Yes, but it was never always a thing in practice. But the whole point is that, you know, in some ways, yeah, exactly. It wasn't necessarily, like, I don't think we should have much nostalgia for that term. Yeah, the idea that, oh, there's all these rules. And if you break them, you'll get pulled in front of the ICC that America never even bothered to join. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So, look, I think the question I have is, so what are they going to do with them?

Because I'm thinking Australia has a great mining sector. Oh. Maybe what we should be doing is seeing this not so much as a disaster for world peace, but, and a risk to World War III, but actually an opportunity for Aussie diggers to go over. Clive Palmer, Gina Reinhardhart. And the best part about it is, Twiggy Forest. My understanding is that most of the mineral resources on offer are in Russia-controlled territory. Oh, awkward. So if we send over Twiggy and Gina and all those, Cluey.

Parma and stuff, they'll be in harm's way. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, two birds, one stone. Hey, they're business people, they're good at making a deal. And this is the thing, I mean, there has to be a deal. There's going to need to be some sort of deal done. And I'm keen to get your thoughts on what that deal might look like after this. The Chaser Report, news you can't trust. Because I was arguing with a friend about this.

I think the deal is that Russia takes over Ukraine. Well, but I mean, this is the whole thing. If I was Putin now, I'd be literally just hopping in the tank, maybe not me personally, but, you know, all the criminals that I've released, and be saying, okay, let's get to Kiev within the next couple of weeks, surely. But is that even what they want? Why don't they just, and this is what I think Russia has wanted for a long time. They want the Russian speaking bits that they've got or had during the course of the war. So like the extended Crimea, you know, the Donbass and all those other regions, isn't that what Trump's deal is eventually going to be? It's going to be, well, you have to give up all this territory.

You definitely can't be in NATO, but they'll stop killing the rest of you outside of this area. And that's the one thing where Ukraine says, no, we absolutely won't. We demand to have territorial integrity, all the territory we started with. But how are they going to get it back with Trump in the White House? And, I mean, frankly, with Biden in the White House, they weren't making all that much progress on getting it back. So what is the deal that gets done? Because there's going to have to be some deal. Like, they can't just continue this morass for the next 10 years.

No, but that's why the only, like, It was Russia who invaded. It's Putin's decision whether he stops or not. And Zelensky said Ukraine's not going to stop. So the answer is the only way peace breaks out, quote unquote, is if Russia just takes over Ukraine. That is what will happen. And yeah, sure, it may take. But I think if America stopped supplying ammunition, that's very quick.

Like, there was suffering shortages of ammunition all through, last year, and it was really preventing them from, from, like, Ukraine, from, you know, actually having any sort of level of, to think, I think, I think you see quite a quick capitulation if, if America exits the space. But also, if there's this idea of a sort of ceasefire over, of a pause, that then gives Russia the chance to build up again. And it's quite extraordinary that it's gone this long, to be honest. And if there's no security guarantee, like, I can tell you what will happen, is, it's not like,

Like Putin is very good at realizing that, you know, you can have one sticker on something, but actually it's something else. Yeah, because Russia is a democracy with elections, right? So Ukraine can have a sort of nation state, right? But without any security guarantees, and they'll have a democracy, and then Russia will control the elections that, you know, the next elections in Ukraine. and it'll be set up as a vassal state in the same way that Romania and Bulgaria like there's lots of vassal states of of Russia

and then yeah there's peace but it's and then I think what is interesting is why would you if you were Putin stop there because what is Putin doing this for what is the actual reason why he wants Ukraine it's because he had a traumatic childhood he probably didn't have many friends

and he's trying to make up for this loss because he doesn't want to go to therapy. Let's be quite honest about it. That's what's going on. Like, most of the history of the world is just men having traumatic problems that they don't want to deal with in therapy, right? And they don't want to talk about it. They just want to kill people, right?

And so... Going back the whole way. Going back the whole way. Even before there was therapy. Why does Trump do what he does? Well, because his dad was an asshole. Like, we know that the reason why these people... And the difference between now and, say, 30 or 40 years ago is those people were kept to the edges of power and society.

Like modern militaries and modern political classes did not allow people who were so damaged to get in and gain control. But there's been such a lack of accountability seeping into politics because it is increasingly controlled by capital, which doesn't care whether people are psychopaths or not. In fact, it actually quite likes psychopaths. Can I jump in there? Because I think that's the path out of this, actually. If you want to really have a lasting solution here, what we need to do, and it's not that hard to do at all from where we are right now,

is that Vladimir Putin is in the wrong game. Vladimir Putin is in the Cold War, roll in the tanks, invade places, mindset. That's not what you do in 2025. That's old thinking. What Vladimir Putin needs to do is to become a tech bro. They're richest people in the world, the people who exist beyond the power of the nation state, and can waltz into various senior government officers

and basically create havoc if they want to bother is people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. They're completely unconstrained. They operate across state borders. They don't have to kill people. They get to feel good about themselves in the annual reports. But they do kill people, but it's by moving numbers around on the spreadsheet. Or, yeah, or defunding aid in the developing world, things like that.

Things that are very much at arm's length, like what Elon Musk's been doing. You don't, it's second order consequences. I mean, the US aid cuts will absolutely. cause deaths. There's no way of arguing that they won't. But yeah, and bloody me, Putin,

why have all this fuss and mess and drama and... And also, hole digging. Because that's, that's the other thing. We bumped into Craig Rucastel yesterday, having a beer with him. And he was talking about how he has to dig a hole

in his front yard for some hedges. I don't know. It was for Rose Wood. Or does he just like digging holes? I don't know. Maybe it was varying a dead body. But the whole point is, he was saying that digging holes,

like trench warfare, which is essentially what's going on in the Ukraine. Digging holes is incredibly difficult. It's very dull. World War I don't want to break it to each other. World War I was not fun for anyone involved. Whether it was the trench digging or what happened in the trenches. It was thereafter. It was mainly the trench digging.

But again, Elon Musk has a company whose job it is to dig holes in a very high-tech manner. Why doesn't Craig talk to the boring company? Get them on board. But in all seriousness, if Vladimir Putin was simply a 21st century tech bro, None of this would happen. There's no, you know, I looked at the list of the world's richest people, almost all of the men the other day. There's no Russians on that list. There's no power.

They have no successful internet businesses. They're not doing anything really in the space. China's completely outpaced them. They need to change up what they're doing. Stop killing people. Just start viewing them as customers. Ukraine is a market full of customers that their tech pros could be controlling the data of and, you know, marketing to and exploiting in that way. Dom, I think you've solved world peace.

All world peace, you have. We will just make sure that our producer sends this episode to Vladimir Putin and that he listens to it. Or Elon. Elon just needs to say. They talk all the time. Start an AI company, Vladimir. What are you doing? Yes.

Become part of GROC. Yep. Yeah. So much easier. There's no tanks involved. You still conquer people, but you do it more subtly. And the good thing is, because AI, is uncopy-writable.

He doesn't even have to be good at AI. He can just get an AI to write an AI. Yeah, that's good. All right. I think it's all fixed now. Okay, well, there you go. We've solved the global problems. And now...

Bet you didn't expect that out of this podcast. Now, Vladimir Zelensky can put a nice suit on. Wouldn't Zelensky be good at running an AI company? He probably would, actually. He seems like quite a smart guy. We're part of the Acona Class Network. Catch you tomorrow.