The Chaser Report - Getting Outsiders In | Julia Zemiro

Episode Date: October 10, 2021

Julia Zemiro of Rockwiz, Home Delivery and many other fabulous things joins Gabbi, Dom and Charles to explore how ordinary people can get their voices heard in Canberra – and maybe even get elected. Her new podcast about this is called 'Who Cares With Julia Zemiro', and will be in the A Rational Fear feed.(The team's having a week off to celebrate the end of NSW's lockdown – but we have a brand new extended chat with some of our favourite people for you each morning – plus fresh headlines every day!) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome the Chaser Report for Monday, the 11th of October, also known as Freedom Day, in New South Wales. I'm Dom Knight. Hello, Charles Firth. Yes, and I like calling it Freedom Day because it really rubs it in the nose of all the Victorians for whom it is not Freedom Day, that because we were given a stack ton more vaccines than them that we get to go to the beach a bit earlier than them. They should have had their outbreak earlier.

They were late. Yes. It's like you turn up late at a dinner party. You're not going to get the best entrees and they didn't get the vaccines. Yes. And I mean, we even had to help them get it. Get the outbreak in the end anyway because they weren't even getting one. Yes, so there you go.

Sorry, Victoria, and sucked in to the unvaccinated people at New South Wales. You are missing out on the freedom. unless you know how to fake a vaccine passport, which apparently takes two seconds. So well done to the East Wales government on their very sensible and secure approach to all this. Yeah, yeah. Look, there's no risk that all the extra freedoms that the new Premier has given us are going to result in a terrible outbreak that then means we end up in lockdown in a few months' time. You know, mark my words, Don. Am I ever wrong about anything? Yeah, so you'll hear us eating our words in a few weeks' time.

So we figured we might as well enjoy it while we can. And what would Scott Morrison do in a circumstance? I guess, well, they go on holidays. That's what we're doing this week. Yes, definitely. So instead of doing a completely new topical episode for you each day, what we've got is five new long episodes with five excellent people, along with the usual news headlines,

because Rebecca Dan Amino does not get a week off. Sorry, Beck. Yes, poor Beck. But it's all right. Yeah, so you still get your topical headlines. You get a great interview. and yeah, I think it's going to be a great week. I'm looking forward to the ratings going up, Don.

Yes, look, we had a great time recording with Julia Zamiro is on the show today. She has a brand new podcast about politics and who better to talk to than The Chaser Report. So we're going to talk to her in a moment. We've also got Mark Humphreys coming up tomorrow. Will Anderson's coming on on Wednesday. Nina Oyama, one of our absolute favorite regular guests on Thursday, and Saul Griffith with an amazing conversation. about how we can electrify the country and really get stuck into solving climate change.

That's going to be very inspiring. That's the last one for the week. On Friday, yes, that was an absolutely fascinating interview. So make sure you catch that later in the week. But first of all, let's go to Rebecca Dana Minow with today's Chaser News Headlines. Scott Morrison has announced sweeping plans to hold regular social media users accountable, especially when they call defenceless dodgy rich people names. The PM then took a moment to reaffirm his belief that the country does not need a federal ICAC,

which would hold those in charge accountable for any corruption. A columnist for the Australian newspaper has demanded answers on why the Australian of the year Grace Tame would continue to do what she received the award for. Janet Olbrexson penned a column on the weekend, claiming Grace Tame was too divisive in distinguishing between Australians who believe pedophiles shouldn't be protected and those who were. for News Corp. Home and Away producers

have announced their show is the most diverse they have ever been after actress Sam Frost claimed unvaccinated people like her were a marginalised group. That's the latest Chaser News you can't trust. Please follow or subscribe to us on your podcast app of choice.

I'm Rebecca Deunamuno and after over 100 days in lockdown I'm finally free. Free! I tell you! Oh God. I'm going to go and lie down on my couch. Julia Zamiro is an absolute national treasure. She's an actress, she's a performer, she hosts everything under the sun.

Rock quiz was a huge project for her, celebrating the greats of Australian live music. And of course, her show Julia Zamiro's home delivery has brought her and asked into the homes of many other national treasures just like her. But the good news is she has a new podcast with our pal, Dan Illich, of Irrational Fear. It's going to pop up in their podcast feed. And it's called Who Cares with Julia Zamiro. She's going to talk to all kinds of people across the political spectrum, both incredibly famous and people you haven't even met yet, about their involvement in politics and how we should all care more.

Hello, Julia. Welcome to the Chaser Report. Oh, look, I'm delighted to be. He would have thrilled, Charles, Gabby, Don, lovely. And welcome to podcasting as well. Look, as I say my first episode, really, Julia, you want to bring another podcast into the world? We don't need it. And look, in essence, I don't disagree. But I guess I'm only doing one a month for six months. So there's only six. And I'm, you know, less is more. I'm dipping my toe into it.

But look, I'm genuinely doing it because I'm shit scared, really worried and wanted to just channel my time into something where I might feel a little bit better. And not just be hopeful. I reckon hope is turning into a completely useless. emotion and it doesn't do anything, it's about action. So I guess it's wanting to talk to interesting people who've taken action in doing things that change minds, maybe. And it's called Who cares, isn't it? Correct. Have you figured it out yet? Who cares? Who cares? No one. I don't reckon. No, well, I'll tell you what it started as, and look, you know, in a way I'm fine tuning it and, you know, by the sixth episode, I'll know what it is. But, you know, at one point, I was looking at all our lack of leadership and thinking, God, how do these people get there and

they're hopeless and let's stop wishing for Jacinda Ardern because she's got a job, you know, we can't have her. But then I thought, well, hang on, if you look the other way, who are the followers, who are us, who are the voters and who are the people? And I guess I'm talking about people who, you know, they've had a good education. They know how stuff works and they're totally disengaged with politics. So if you start talking to them at a party or a coffee or whatever, they're like, yeah, no, I'm not really into it and I don't really like to talk about it.

Or they have such strong opinions that seem to me to be so old-fashioned. that if you just scratch a little bit and have that one-to-one conversation, they go, oh, yeah, maybe. Like, I've had people when I've talked about the podcast say, you know, I don't really vote or care much about voting. Okay, at first that blows my mind as a sentence. And then they've gone, maybe I should think more about it. These are switched on people in their 40s and 50s.

And so I guess I was, I'm trying to do, not that it's literally going to be about politics every week or voting, but I think, and it might even seem like I'm dumbing it down slightly, But it's just trying to talk to people about they saw something they didn't like. And it wasn't about organising a rally straight away. It was picking up the phone and making a call or writing an email and getting another few people interested. And we're allowed to do that.

We're allowed to find choice in what we do. And I think Australians, they're too lax. There's too much apathy. And I still don't know why that is. I haven't quite figured that one out, I don't think. I've always thought that this government, particularly how it's been the last couple of years, has decided to weaponize apathy in this country.

I feel like there's two ways of doing it. Half the country is apathy to a point of complete disengagement. And the other half really value tradition. And that's how I've always found when people are voting super old-fashioned or super conservative, I feel that it's more often than not because it's an emotional attachment to what their parents did or what their closest friends and relatives did. And it doesn't really come from any cognitive thought of their own.

I think what you're trying to do with this podcast is really important, particularly for young people, because I still have, I'm only 25, and I have friends that donkey voted in the last election. Yeah. And I got so angry about it because it can be... Yeah, but you're a bogan, Gabby, like, of course you know people who donkey voted last week. No, but I think it's really important because it's also, politics also gets shrap, like talking of politics and being politically engaged, also gets shrouded in this world of

classism as well, where... As we just heard. Somebody less educated would also disengage because they think they might not be smart enough, but the reality is politics should be for everyone and it should always be understood on every single level and if somebody isn't understanding it then there should be resources out there to help that person understand it because it's like government represents everyone

so I just wanted to say my two cents and I think that what you're doing is a really admirable thing because it's necessary well I guess too you sort of want people to go into voting as if they've studied for the exam yeah you know what I mean they go in and and you know what I mean they go in and I've had that, I used to have that in my 20s a bit going, I don't really know what's, I want to go in there going, I know what I'm going to do today. I do actually know. And I think I know. I'm pretty sure I know how. So, you know, preferential voting. People don't understand that. I had two terrific young guys clearing out some stuff in our garden because, you know, I've got no muscles left and I can't do it. And I was chatting to them and they're interested in finding out about politics, but they've got no idea where to go. And I think you're right, Gabby. I think that. The government loves the people don't know where to go. I think they're loving having us shut down a little bit.

We can't go anywhere. It's, yeah. So you've got one episode in the can. It came out on Friday. What's in it? Well, Mark Kettley is an interesting human being. He runs a surfboard company. And basically, a few years, a couple of years ago,

he was watching the same-sex marriage vote for Waringa where he lives. And two-thirds of that electorate voted yes. And there was Tony Abbott clearly a no. And he thought, hang on. This guy doesn't represent who we are. So he emailed a couple of friends and said, what do you reckon? Do you believe in him or what?

And he just started getting a little group and he started printing a few t-shirts and built this kind of grassroots movement and grassroots, you know, every word you used to describe something, then it kind of loses its power. But basically, started asking his neighbours, what do you like about Tony Abbott? Do you think he's doing a good job? Do you think he represents you? One by one by one by one. And he asked them to buy the T-shirts.

He didn't give them the T-shirts. You have to wear it. And slowly built up this following where people were going, actually, I don't really believe in what he does. I just didn't want to say anything. So different to the French, right? I'm half French. Bloody hell, they'll open their mouth any time about politics.

But it's almost like people needed permission to disagree. It's crazy. And he built this kind of movement. And by that point, the question was, if we got an independent to actually really serve us, would you be behind that? So he creates the group before he creates the independent. So instead of spending time trying to trust the independent or go,

who are we, we don't know. It's we know who we are. We think we know what we're after. Well, this person presented to us and there's different people kind of, you know, audition for the role. And that's how they got Zali Stegel. And the way he describes it in the podcast, it sounded like a joyous thing, like a positive thing, like something that brought people in

as opposed to it's difficult, it's hard, it's violent, it's, you know, all that stuff. Yeah, joyous is not generally a word that's attached to a candidate selection process for a federal election. No, and Cathy McGowan speaks of the joy in her campaign as well when she was running for Indy. She felt that she had the support of everyone behind her. So it felt like she knew where she was going with it. And even if she failed, or it didn't succeed, there had been people with her along the way,

not a party, actual people. And then coupled with that, we've got Sally Rugg, who is an incredible campaigner and activist has just stepped down from change.org as executive director there and wrote a fantastic book called How Powerful We Are About. She really wanted to document what happened with marriage equality because for a minute there she thought Malcolm Turnbull was going to claim it for his own or some kind of victory. And you know, no, no, that's not going to happen. So there are a nice little couple too, two activists coming at it from different ways and me really being the innocent going, how did you do it? You know, I ask questions that might seem a bit simplistic, but I think

sometimes I listen to podcasts and I think, how do you know that about government? How do you know that? I don't know that. And it's because they're in little groups that know all the stuff. Well, I don't know that stuff. I didn't know you were allowed to drink in Parliament House. I didn't know alcohol was freely available.

Had to watch Ms. Represented to find that out. Same. You know, it's things like that that you think, really? Alcohol? Are you joking? It's kind of special what you were talking about before about how an independent sort of being scouted by a body of people that that area is represented by is just like when you said it I don't know what it is but I just

went that sounds like a much more logical option towards politics than what currently is happening I would much rather a candidate want to represent the people who are scouting for the right person and you know what sort of set me off it was hearing you know when Christian Porter finally revealed that he was the person in question in that case and then there were articles afterwards saying oh there goes his prime ministerial career and I thought what? Hang on, what do you mean? And then as I sort of figured it, I was like, oh right, yeah, of course, you guys get someone who puts their hand on your shoulder and goes, mate, I reckon you'll be it one day. And it's like, well, how do I have any say in that? No. And it's not that I'm anti-party,

but I'm anti how it works. And there's so many factions in both parties, well, let's try, how bad can it be that you've got Helen Haynes or you've got a Zali Stegel, you know, or an Andrew Wilkie who are up there, maybe doing it differently? I think it's, just needs to be done differently. It's not working. And I guess the IPCC report freaked me out as well. I'm really scared. I'm really scared. And I, at 54, if I never travel again, I'm fine. If I never go anywhere again, I don't care. I'm here to help the young people, whatever they need, because gee, what a mess. The young whippersnappers. Yeah, what a mess. I'm ready here to go, what do you need? Faxing. What do you need? Hosting? What do you need sandwich making? Can you do my taxes,

because that's a mess at the moment. Gabby, Gabby. And the world scares me. I'll pay for someone to do it for you because I'm not very good with the numbers. But I'll do that. I'll get a friend who can do it for you. There's a big movement at the selection to try and create more Sally Stegles as well. There's a, I think it's voices it's called. They're trying to get out and do this on a wider scale. Are you going to talk to some of the people involved in that?

It certainly might do that. I mean, in my own electorate Hume, Angus Taylor is in charge here in the Southern Highlands or in this big area of Hume. And there's a vote Angus Out campaign. And again, as I've said when I've posted stuff about on Instagram, I'm not, it's not a hate campaign. It's not a trying to bring anyone down campaign. It's saying there might be someone else who can do it better.

I think vote Angus Taylor out. Sure. Is a trying to get rid of his campaign. But it's, you know, it's friendly. But this is a thing. It's like they say exactly the same things and do it. They're thinking the same thing in their own electorates. But then they start to kind of use dirty tactics.

At least we're open. You can see who's donating to our particular. fundraiser. Then we're not trying to hide anything. And it really comes from a place of people just trying to have a better representation. Because I think after the bushfires, if COVID hadn't come along, I really wonder how it would have played out. I think people were really worried and really frightened. And then this other thing took over, which was really scary as well. I feel I want to get excited. Don't we all want to be excited about going, could Australia be that country that goes forward and is doing renewables, is thinking differently, is looking in education going,

how do we slightly blow that up and make it more interesting? You know, all that stuff, that would make people excited about being involved. We've got another interview coming up later in the week. We saw Griffith talking about the roadmap for this, which is going to be fascinating. Would you run, Julia, if you got the tap on the shoulder, would you consider? Thanks, Dom. You'd get Clover Moore's support, I think. Yeah, Dom.

I'll tell you, I'll say no to you, and I'll tell you for why. I know my strengths, and that is not one. of them. I really am against personalities going up for things just because they've got a bit of a following. I don't know enough about how it all works. I don't think my skin is thick enough for it. And I know that I'm best at chatting with people, selling an idea or being around them or bringing people together or hosting stuff and doing heaps of stuff for free because I feel like I want to. I know that's my strength. Yeah. No, that's not my, that's not my bag at all and beware people who do do it just because they were good at something else maybe.

It's unusually politics to find people who acknowledge that they aren't amazing. Like every profile of a politician tends to have it at some point, you know, at the age of 10, the, she announced that they wanted to be providence. What I love about Helen Haynes when you talk to her is that she was a midwife for many years and worked in in hospitals for many years and has this incredible career, but also went to Sweden and studied Uppsala on environment. And if you really, you can find people out there who are also incredible and they've done amazing things and maybe didn't go to all the right schools, et cetera, but, and know how to talk

the talk. I mean, Zali's an excellent speaker. Kathy's an excellent speaker. They communicate beautifully. They're real. They're calm. And they've done something with their life. Yes.

Before they wanted to be a politician, I think that's so crucial. I was talking to a friend on the weekend who had privilege of being in the first few focus groups that they ever did on zali stegel and after the first one they did it and they got all these sort of like basically liberal party voting mums they all knew zali steggill like all them knew her not just knew of her knew her because they're all in the electorate like she was a bit of a sort of star of the electorate and even the ones who'd gone in going no i'm a staunch lib was saying oh yeah actually i probably will vote for her if she ran because blah blah blah that he said that night he went out of the focus group, you immediately said, how do I place a lot of money on this candidate

winning? And actually having respect for and knowing the person who represents you personally, that's such a novel idea. Very novel. He said in his entire political career, he'd never, ever witnessed such enthusiasm amongst the people who are supposed to be voting for the other side. It's amazing what can happen if an MP runs who actually wants to better the area, they're representing and is from that area.

But also the people, you know, Mark Kelly, who's in the podcast in the first one, he talks about how conversations start happening and they'd meet and at the beach and every Sunday they'd go for walks and people were going, oh, I know you and I know you and I get to get, when do we do that? And it's really hard at the moment because of COVID. But it's remembering that there's something in, there was something in the air then. And I guess too, I think of the women's marches this year. There was electricity in the air.

There were people who had never marched before that were there at those. marches. And so I think there's a rumbling going on. And the system doesn't work. When you watch misrepresented and you watch them argue in that Westminster system over each other, any designer or architect would say, how's that room built for anyone to really solve ideas? Whenever we encourage people to solve an idea, be it in a drama class, you sit in a circle, be it in any other cultures, our incredible indigenous cultures, you know, you're in a circle, you're in a group. When you go to Alcoholics Anonymous, you're in a circle. It's all about facing each other and working the problem out. the hell are they doing? Get out. Get in the bin.

I'd love to see the Healing Circle version of Parliament. And I think they should have to stand up so that the people who are too drunk to vote actually just fall over. I think that would be very helpful. The other side of sort of decline of politics in Australia is the role of the media. 97% of the commercial news media in terms of actual eyeballs and attention span is divided up between Murdoch, Channel 9 and Channel 7. That's 97% of the commercial news media. Now, like, are you going to, in your podcast, look into there?

I'd love to do that. The trouble with them, we've got a wish list of what we'd like. And also, I want to point out, they're not all extremely well-known people. I didn't want to do a podcast where you're like, oh, someone famous, someone famous, someone famous. With home delivery, I've done that, and I've really enjoyed it, and it's great, but I sort of wanted to uncover people that we may not know. But also, how fast are things changing, right?

Like when I taped the initial podcast, Gladys was still in charge of New South Wales. Now she's gone. Things are changing so quickly. I sort of don't want to book anything too far in advance because I'm doing it monthly. It's out once every four weeks. But I definitely want to look at that idea of media, maybe find some of those voices out there that call it into question. And also, again, ask the simplistic question of how am I the ordinary person supposed to see through all of that? Of course, I do see through some of it because I have a critical thinking.

brain and I can figure it out. But also, again, so many political podcasts, you're like, how do you know all this stuff? What are you talking about? How's that not in the papers? It's gossip. It must be gossip. They know what's going on down there. They just don't tell us. That is terrible. That is shocking. And I'm not quite sure what to do about that. None of us are. So if there are people out there who are starting to be a bit more difficult, if all of a sudden we have this election and there's a huge minority and there's 10 independents on the crossbench, Good. Make a mess. Make some chaos. Let's change it. Let's find out what else it can be because I don't see any other alternative in terms of climate change. It's really scary and we need to make some bold decisions and no one is up there

painting a vision that counts, that could work. Other people are, our scientist friends and our environment friends, but not the people who should be. I don't want those people there. I want to be excited and forward thinking about what's happening and I'm not going to say hopeful. To be fair, Julia, like, There has been a lot of action on climate change from this current government. Susan Lee has approved three coal mines expansions in the last term of government. I mean, last month, it is real action on climate? She's really committed to changing the climate. Yeah, that's right.

Committed to change. I'm interested to see, too, with people like, you know, with Susan Lay doing something like that or, you know, Jeff Kennett, who kind of did some horrible, terrible things in Victoria, and then he gets to be the head of Beyond Blue. I'm interested to in this redemption idea. It's like, so can everyone be, is every, does everyone deserve redemption? Well, I don't know, maybe, but I'm sorry, I'm going to find it really hard to ever look at you in a different way, any of them that are there now, the Susan's, the Scots, that all that, to kind of go, you can't, like, Matthias Corman now being a champion of climate, now he's a, no, he's in Belgium where he can relax and enjoy himself and have great food. It's like, oh, now, but not for us, for us, no.

If we underperform in the average job that an Australian has, hospitality, retail, whatever else, you are dismissed. You're not sent to the manager position. Well, didn't happen for Scott Morrison after Tourism Australia, did it? I figured out the other day, by accident, that a friend of mine who was two years lower than me at high school, he went to our brother's school.

He went to Sydney boys, Scott Morrison. And I went to Sydney girls, and I didn't mix much with the boys, so I didn't really get them. Fair. And this friend of mine was a prefect and I said, how would you describe him? God, you knew him in your 11, year 12. And she said, one word, unremarkable. Brutal.

Imagine that that's all we need as a leader, someone unremarkable. So, Julia, this sounds fabulous. It's going to just pop up in the irrational fear feed, isn't it? People don't have to look for your specific podcast. It's just going to arrive. Yes, because if I'd done something under the ABC auspices, I would be getting into trouble for saying anything political. under that. Also, you can't say what you want. The beauty of Dan Illick saying to me,

you can come on once a month and say what you like. And I said, great. And I'm just, I'm just giving it a try for six episodes. And I love podcasts. I'm a mad listener of it. I prefer it to music in the last two years. I don't know why. But there's so much to think about and listen to. And I guess, too, I just want to encourage in each episode to say to people, read something you wouldn't normally read, you know, read something that's long form. Just do one a day. you know, try and listen to different things. To have one conversation with someone about what's coming up and about the election rather than just complaining about COVID.

People need to engage in it and not be afraid to. And if it's about giving them permission, then maybe that's what you have to do. It does sound inspiring and we generally just complain about politics, but I guess there are other approaches. Engaging with it. Making a podcast, it's one in a million thousand different things you can listen to,

but I felt so angry and frightened that I thought I've got to put my energies into something. And this is, especially when, you know, we were just in our, you know, second year of, of, um, hell. Hell. And not knowing, I mean, Gabby, you and I would have cancelled so many music gigs and, and work gigs. And I'm supposed to be on tour in around the country with Rock Quiz at the moment. Second year it's been cancelled. So much has been cancelled. And so to be stuck at home, it was a good thing to put time into, but I'm only doing one a month, so I'm not polluting it too much out there in the world. Oh, it's better than us doing it

a daily podcast. We should have done that. It sounds like a good schedule. I'm glad to hear rock quiz is coming back too because dear God, live music in this country needs attention and support and the love that you and the team give it. Well, we don't make it for TV anymore, but we do certainly do it live every 18 months or so and we were supposed to do a tour last October. We had bookings everywhere all around the country. That's sort of compromised as you know. And I just find it so stressful every time on social media seeing another musician going cancelling these days, postpone, changing.

I mean, that's all agents and managers and musicians are doing at the moment is just moving their timetable. I mean, it's cancel culture gone mad, really. It is. It's outrageous, Charles. But when it comes back, it's going to go off. It's going to, well, I hope so. You've got two years of music to critique, Julia.

And, well, just, we've got so much to miss. I'm looking forward to those first few gigs where everyone's standing around going, what do we do again? How does it work? Don't get too close up. You know, fuck it. Kiss me. You know, whatever.

You pick up the saxophone and sit in the session band going, this doesn't feel right. It's going to be great when we finally get there. Julia, thank you so much for joining us and all the best with the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I love what you're doing because, you know, you've also got to bend it and look at it and twist it and talk about it and then laugh at it. But onwards and upwards, let's create a little bit of chaos. Indeed.

So it's called Julia Zamero asks, Who Cares? It turns up once a month in the around. Rational Fear podcast feed. So you probably already subscribe to that because you know, Dan, he co-hosted our show for a few weeks. We love them very dearly, and so that's all you've got to do. Thanks, Julia. Thank you. Well, Charles, wasn't that fun to chat to Julia Zimiro in today's long episode of The Chaser Report?

Yes, yes. And tomorrow, someone who you, let's face it, pretty much made, Mr. Mark Humphreys. I made him. Like, he owes everything to me. This is true. He was in a warehouse before he met Charles and blagged his. way onto a TV show that Charles was working on. And really, the sky was the limit for Mark after that.

Not so much for Charles, but certainly for Mark. Yeah, it's lucky I get all these paychecks in, isn't it? So he's going to reminisce about working with Charles and the absolutely charming ab-hazardness for which Charles is known. That's tomorrow in your podcast feed here on The Chaser Report. Yeah, look, I don't think you need to listen to Tomorrow's Eve, actually, just thinking about it because, you know, there might be some stories that don't reflect very well on me.

I'm counting on it. So Will Anderson on Wednesday, Nina Iyam on Thursday and Saul Griffith on Friday. It's all coming up in the feed. Our gears from road microphones. We're part of the Acast Creator Network. Catch you tomorrow. See ya.