The Chaser Report - Jo Dyer on why on earth she's running for federal parliament

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

Jo Dyer is the director of Adelaide Writers' Week and an occasional columnist for our sister website The Shot – and she's just announced she's running as the community independent candidate for the South Australian seat of Boothby. But why would anyone want to enter the hyper-toxic world of federal politics? Dom and Charles chat to her about the changes that are needed – and as the spokesperson for the friends of Christian Porter's alleged victim Kate, she has seen up close how much is required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chase of Report. Hello, Tom Knight and Charles Firth here with another afternoon edition of The Chaser Report. And Charles, today we're kind of breaking news, aren't we? Yes, Joe Dyer has declared that she's running as an independent in the seat of Boothby in South Australia. Joe is, of course, the person who successfully sued Christian Porter during all of his legal trials earlier this year. She was a close friend of Kate, the alleged victim of Christian Porter way back in the day and a former university debater and part of all that scene. And in more recent times, she's been the director of Adelaide Riders Week and put on some very lovely festivals in Adelaide too.

So a very big person in the South Australian arts scene. That's right. And probably most importantly. Oh, of course. She's an occasional contributor to The Shot. Yes, our sister opinion website at theshot.net.com. So plenty of things to ask Joe about, Charles, as she prepares to enter the world. of politics, I guess, now that Christian Porter leaves Joe Dyer enters.

That's right. This is going to be a very hard-hitting interview. We're going to really grill her and just, it will be like, you know, Fran Kelly. Now, Frank Kelly is leaving the stage too, Charles, so I think you're ready to step up. I am the new Fran Kelly. Patricia Carvellis is the new Frank Kelly. But you can be the new Patricia Carvellous. Oh, no, that's Andy Park.

You can be the new Andy Park. Yeah, okay. I feel like I'm sort of being punted down a bit. No, I think I should, I think I'm the new Laurie Oaks. Yeah, Charles. be the new Lurio because that's all right. Okay, yeah. Can we just get on with the interview? Joe Dyer joins us in just a sec. The Chaser Report. Less news. Less often.

We are with us now. Joe Dyer, director at the Adelaide Writers Festival, who's just announced that she is running as the community independent candidate for the seat of Boothby in the federal election. Hello, Joe, and are you feeling okay? Hi, yes, I am. Probably thinking I'm a little bit mad, really, to be undertaking this madcap adventure but um so far so good yeah like what the fuck are you thinking well i know that that's what many people have asked um and i ask that of myself at sort of four a m um oh look you know they're just such a pack of bastards in cambra really um that i figured now is the time you know the stakes are high let's get in there let's um have some fun throw some

bombs. Do you think you can actually win? Like, are you running to win or are you running just to make them lose? Well, look, I think under normal circumstances, you'd have to say that an independent running in a marginal seat in South Australia, it is a tall mountain to climb, to say the very least. But lots of wankers have done it before. Like Nick Xenophon, you know. Well, this is the thing. And what I do think, which is interesting about this particular moment in time, is that people are really sick of the government. You know, they're really appalled by the level of leadership that's being shown. And there is a bit of a movement happening.

You know, there's across the country, there are people sort of saying, look, it doesn't actually have to be this way. You may be trying to persuade us that there's only a choice between the two major parties, but actually there is a greater array of individuals and ideas on offer, and we could do something differently. It's curious that a lot of the people who've put up their hands to run as community independence that have been picked by their communities through a process, that's tended to result in female candidates.

I can't imagine why that would be, Joe, with this government. Well, I think there's a whole range of factors there. Some of it is absolutely that, you know, women do tend to engage more with their community and women are really fucking pissed off, you know, so that it's unsurprising to me that within what formerly would have been the broad church of the Liberal Party. A whole sway the women who are feeling excluded from that, who are not feeling that they can engage.

The habits that die hard in the Liberal Party of bullying, strong, independent women, we've seen what happened to Julia Banks recently. You know, I just think that women who normally may have sort of a political career if they wanted a political career at all, who have done it within the Liberal Party, are now staying outside of the Liberal Party, but also there's just a huge number of people

who are thinking the major parties themselves aren't going to fix this problem. So it's not so much that they're disillusioned by the Liberal Party specifically, it's that they don't think that the duopoly that we have on our government is going to actually be able to solve the problems that we're confronting.

Actually, one of the interesting things I found out a couple of weeks ago, is I'm talking to this pollster who said that 25 to 45-year-old women have completely abandoned Morrison, like they just don't like him anymore. They don't even necessarily know why. I mean, I've got a few ideas. Yeah, well, it's kind of like to know, to look at the man is to dislike him. Yeah, that's right, but there's something about him that they have just abandoned him. But interestingly, they haven't then turned around and gone, oh,

Oh, well, Anthony Albanese, he's our saviour. They're just sitting there not quite knowing which way to jump or what to do. So is that, like, do you have access to that sort of polling? Is that sort of part of the thinking, or is it more just sort of a generalised? When we'll be doing some of our own polling? And there's actually quite a good amount of data, which was more around specific issues, but some of those issues were about women's issues, about the Australia Institute

did some on National Integrity Commission at Boothby featured in. The Grattan Institute had just done some on job seeker and how that's in desperate need to be raised. So look, it doesn't surprise me that women have turned off Morrison for all sorts of reasons.

I mean, you know, Anika Smethurst's biography of him is quite interesting. I mean, basically a lot of his senior colleagues just say he doesn't like working with women. He's kind of an old-fashioned misogynist. He just doesn't feel comfortable around. But Joe, he's got a wife and two daughters. He's got daughters. So he must love. He likes to keep safely at home. He lets off the vibe and like just this is my own personally, honestly held opinion. I just think he has the vibe of someone who punches walls when he gets

frustrated. Yeah, that there's, yeah, there's boiling anger sort of. depth of his psyche. Yeah, look, I mean, and, you know, quite apart from that. But haven't they outlawed, like, in the last sitting of Parliament, they passed a whole lot of laws to sort of defund your sort of groups of people, haven't they? Well, it's not so much, yeah, what they've done is they've passed legislation so that any not-for-profits who may include advocacy as part of their remit, once they hit a certain turnover, they have to register as third-party campaigning

entities. And this is like a whole range of charities. This is a whole range of environmental organisations who are not engaged in electoral politics. They're engaged in advocacy for their stakeholders or for the vulnerable or for the environment. And yet now, yes, the government with the support of the Labor Party, I have to say, has redefined any single issue advocacy with homelessness, you know, women's safety, as electoral politics and they have to register. So, you know, the hypocrisy of this government, on really all of these issues is just kind of incredible that they're turning around and saying that organisations like Climate 200, which, you know, is really upfront about what its agenda is

and is declaring everyone who donates to it is some kind of nefarious democracy-killing organisation lurking in the shadows in the corner. While meanwhile, it was John Howard who increased the campaign contributions that you had to declare from $1,000 to $10,000, announce 14,900, I believe, and they resolutely refuse to amend this at all. But also, Joe, I've got a loophole for you. Just get all your donations through a blind trust. You can't, don't have to declare anything. You can just take millions.

Or I could just set up an organisation like the Old Cormac Foundation or the Millennium Foundation or any of those sorts of things where just like all a big business tip all of their money. And then that gets handed over to the Liberal Party, you know, completely anonymously. as far as the general public. Wait a minute, didn't you win like $550,000 from Christian Porter? Do you get that money? Oh, yeah, that's all mine.

I'm going to spend it all in Boothby. I wish. I'm very pleased that I'm able to hand that directly over to my lawyers who work so hard for it. Oh, no. Improving the bottom line of Mark lawyers who deserve every cent rather than, alas, being able to be used here in Boothby.

Well, we had Michael Bradley on the podcast a few days, ago. Oh, yes. Of Mark lawyers, yeah. Of Mark lawyers. He was your lawyer, wasn't he? He was indeed my lawyer, yes. Yeah, and he said you're an idiot for running.

Yeah, well, I think he's right. Is that defamation? Hang on. I mean, you wouldn't contest anything Michael Bradley says, surely. Look, I think I am an idiot for running, and I'm already, I'm front-page news of the advertiser this morning. Oh, nice. Yeah.

Fletteringly? Doing something right. But just presumably they like your work on the writer's week. Is that what it is? Of course. Yeah, they're all very literary, though. liberals. No, they're getting exercised about my GoFundMe campaign so far as raised about $38,000 because there are people there who are anonymous. And I'm thinking, really liberal

party? You want to make this? They haven't done it through the prescribed legal method of a blind trust. There are rules to follow here. And you've got to understand that the right to freedom of association in Australia is only as a political party. That's it. Oh, absolutely. So you just need to You just need to start your own political party. Yes. And it's all good. Following in the fine footsteps of Jackie Lambie, I could be like the Joe Dyer Network.

Joe Dyer takes over South Australia. I made my debut on the advertisers' 50 most influential South Australians today. Oh, nice. So, you know, the advertisers kind of, it's all over the shop. Well, I'm sure, Joe, that they'll just take a neutral look at your policies versus the other candidates and work out who to endorse. You know, they're a news court paper. They'll serve their readers' interests, weren't they?

They have a very fine record of supporting me. When I first got the job at Adelaide Writers' Week, I was making some, you know, very low-key remarks to a group of friends on Facebook about the election of the Marshall Liberal Government because Jay Weatherall was Premier at the time and he was a friend. And way down in sort of comment 14,

I made some reference to the fucking lips. You know, they'll sell off everything to their corporate mates, which isn't mailed down. And that too became a front-page story of the advertising. Writer's weak boss slams new government. I thought, wow, that's right. Good on them for building your profile. That's probably led to this point.

Markle our campaigns underway, thanks to the Tizer. The Chaser Report, now with Extra Whispers. I've got a few tips for you if you do want to get elected. I don't know. Do you want to get elected though? Is this your vast experience of being elected to things? No, no, no. You spotted the floor in the plan already.

That's why you'd be a good representative if elected. Shut up. No, it's about, no, it's to do with it closely observing Australian politics. And in particular, South Australian politics over the last 20 years, which is you just need novelty oversized props. Yep. So you've got to get in. I think everyone remembers Nick Xenophon.

From the novel of the oversized checks, but also remember that little car that he had that he drove around? I remember at one stage didn't he get into half of a horse suit as well? That sounds right. I don't remember what that issue was about. The voters love that. Maybe it was to do with sore throats and being a bit horse or something. They were always terrible puns. There were some great photos of him.

Although apparently he's thinking of a new tilt in politics. Can't tear himself away. there's some suggestion that he might run for the Senate. The law has not diverted him sufficiently, it would seem. And so we have to ask, because it'll become an Adelaide advertiser front page, undoubtedly. Everything I say these days is very... You're basically just a Labor Front, are you? And the only way to prove that you're not a Labor Front is to direct your preferences to the Libs ahead of Labor at the next election.

And that's the only way you can prove it, Joe. Look, we're not directing preferences because, you know, we believe that the voters of Boothby can make up their own minds. So I'm just after their first preference and then they can do with it what they like. Look, clearly there already has been some sort of allegations, Simon Birmingham in particular tweeting about the fact that I'm a card carrying member of the Labour Party and I feel like that I'm definitely a stooge, labour through and through. You know, I was a member of the Labour Party in my...

As we all were. We all were. isn't it, that you have to be kind of of the left when you're young. And then most people grow out of it except for those hardy people like us. I mean, certainly I'm a progressive centrist candidate, but I haven't been a member of the Labor Party for 20 years. And there are reasons why I'm not a member of the Labor Party. And there are reasons why I didn't seek pre-selection for the Labor Party this time.

And I actually believe that the Labor Party is being cowardly. They vacating the field on a whole range of really critical issues. they're so scared of the Liberal Party wedging them that they're just running for cover on really key issues, climate, tax, refugees, you know, like these are the reasons why I'm not a member of the Labor Party and these are the reasons why I'm going to be running as an independent. Some Labor figures though, Joe,

are worried about the voices candidates that are emerging and saying, look, they're running in liberal seats, they're going to want to get re-elected. What they'll do is they'll do a big deal with Morrison or whoever it is and maybe they even demand a different prime minister, they'll sign a deal on climate, they'll negotiate all these things, and they'll actually re-elect the government.

It was an interesting thing to hear, given that a lot of the candidates are firmly against what the government's been doing. How will you make the decision of who to make prime minister if you happen to hold the balance of power? Just on that point, though, it's sort of interesting as if, you know, the Labor Party, again,

are passive bystanders in all of this. You know, have they forgotten that you actually have to get out there and win arguments? You can win arguments with, the electorate and you can win arguments with independence like make the bloody case labour party it's quite a novel idea it's revolutionary talk and say oh no look all these other people are running with different ideas and platforms and they'll take government from us well it's you have to get out there and win government labour party but it's much easier if it's just a duopoly

i mean ask quantus and virgin if no one else competes well this is exactly the point but the idea that somehow having a whole sway of independence, you know, that minor parties, that coalition governments might become the new normal, that that's somehow a great scandal and is going to lead to disaster for the country, democracy, economy. Like I just, I don't understand why the people are so, well, I understand why the major parties are so scared about it, but their arguments just don't make any sense. You can look around the world and there are very stable countries that are governed all the time by coalitions of all sorts of parties, multi-party coalitions, individuals.

And, you know, in Canada, they don't even form formal alliances. They actually just negotiate on issue by issue, piece of legislation by piece of legislation, which is what happened in the Gillard Minority Government, which was one of the most productive government that we've had in decades and decades. This is an opportunity. Well, here in New South Wales, we actually got our ICAC, anti-corruption commission when the independents held the balance of power. And I'm actually really worried about Labor getting elected without sort of

of independence holding the balance of power. Because can you imagine, like I know that they'll actually do a federal ICAC rather than the libs who won't, but you can just, they'll just water it down. The libs will say, oh, well, it shouldn't be retrospective and it shouldn't target liberal party members. And the Labor Party will go, oh, well, we've got to agree to that. and it'll be the most, like the only way to get a really good piece of federal ICAC legislation, which frankly, I reckon is the key issue of this election,

or it should be, I mean it's not, but it should be, the fact that... If Gladys had run, it might have a bit of traction. I think it has got a bit of traction as an issue. And look, I agree with you. I mean, Helen Haynes' private members' bill got the top marks from, you know, the Centre of Public Integrity and all people who kind of were looking into and comparing all of the state-based ICACs and the different models, been proposed, you know, the 300-page document that Morrison was waving around, but that he

would refuse to actually introduce into the Parliament. I mean, everybody agrees that it's just it's a joke. It actually provides a bit of a shield for politicians rather than has any teeth at all to investigate them. You know, the Labor Party's, it got OK marks, like, and they are committed at least to introducing something. But Helen Haynesville was the one that got the top marks, you know, public hearings, power to initiate its own investigations, retrospectivity, You know, everything that you want to see was all there. It was just a line of green ticks all the way down. So, you know, look, I actually genuinely agree with you.

Like a Labour Party government held to account by a series of strong, centrist, progressive independence would, I think, deliver a really great government. If elected, Jo, will you commit here and now to giving a speech that's longer than Rob Oakshots to announce who you're going to support? I think you could crack an hour. I reckon you could. You know, and people forced to stay and wait. I mean, his was 17 minutes.

17 minutes, yeah. I mean, at least double. I would think so. Like, why stop there? You know, like, we could crack the hour. It would be fun to think that we'll all be kingmakers if we're all elected. But, you know. But surely the chances of that are absolutely slim, though, isn't it?

Like, that's not. Well, look, I think, personally, I don't think the chance. answers are as slim as the major parties would hope that there will be a hung parliament and there could be a crossbench with which the major parties will have to sit down and negotiate. And that's not just because we all loved the finale of Total Control on the weekend. It is a genuine possibility. Like I think Zali is likely to be re-elected, as is Helen, Rebecca Sharkey's issue in here in Mayo.

So there's already three. and obviously Wilkie in Tasmania, but he's a slightly different type of independent. But you look at what's happening in Wentworth with Allegra Spender, Zoe Daniel in Goldstein, huge support. Do you reckon she'll win? Is there any polling on that? I haven't seen polling yet.

I know that Climate 200 have been doing polling, but you only need two or three more, and you've got a hung parliament. And that's certainly, you know, the agenda for the independence. What do you say to people who say that the actual process that, you know, this Climate 200 and Voices of Groups have used to select their candidates is secretive and anti-democratic? Because it's not voting process where you actually have primaries or, and it's not a pre-selection. It's literally a group of people sit down and focus group people, don't they, and then choose the right one.

Well, I mean, look, Climate 200 and the voices of groups are very different. Right, yeah, I don't really understand. How does it all fit in? Well, look, Climate 200 is just a group that Simon Holmes Court has set up and he's brought in a whole range of kind of experts in, you know, data, in fundraising, in media. And, you know, they've got an agenda, which is to get people elected who support immediate, urgent action on climate change. That's their agenda, really transparent about it. They've been fundraising, they've raised a lot of money, their donors.

are on their website. And now, and then what they're doing is they're looking around the country. They're not, they're not in any way involved with the pre-selection of candidates. They're not supporting particular candidates, but what they're doing is they're supporting campaigns. So they're saying, if a campaign looks like it's viable

and it looks like it has a chance of winning, then we're gonna get behind it because our agenda upfront is to get people elected who are gonna support climate action. So that's what they're doing. And there's some logistical support that they're providing and there's tactical support that they're providing and there's financial support that they're providing to particular electorates.

I don't know which ones. I don't know who they're actively backing apart from what I see on Twitter and things like that. And it is true. Some of the people at Climate 200, like who I'm friends with, you just go, oh, they are really impressive people. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They really are.

I mean, I've had a couple of conversations with them. There have been people who've been involved in political movements before or with political organisations before. They're just smart, interesting people. I was in the law review with Elgris Bender and I really, if you want to put on a comedy review, she's a good person to have around. So I don't know what she'll bring to Parliament. She went to McKinsey as well, but yeah, in terms of reviews, I speak highly. I didn't really, she had comic potential as well. But the voices of groups, I have to say, are different. They are about engaging directly in the electoral process. Some of them are backing candidates and some of them aren't yet. Some of them may yet.

But what they've done is literally just decide, following in the fine footsteps of Cathy McGowan in Indy to try and re-engage a grassroots democratic movement. This idea that democracy is bad for democracy to me just doesn't make much sense. They've gone out, they've, for people who are interested, they've run what they call kitchen table conversations, which was literally members of particular electorates getting together and talking about the issues that concern them or that are priorities for them. Now then some of them who've gone on to select candidates, some of them have had really rigorous processes that have gone on the whole weekend. Some of them have just had conversations with as a committee level and then at a membership

level. You know, there's different ways that they've gone about deciding whether to endorse a candidate and who to endorse. But, you know, it's all like, But being endorsed by the voices, oh, I'm very proud to be endorsed by the voices of Boothby, but it's not like being endorsed by a political party. I don't suddenly now have access to hundreds of thousands of dollars or kind of corporate strategy. All it is saying is this voices of group thinks that I would represent the community well and that I would engage with the community and continue to consult the community.

I mean, I'm not sure where the problem lies in any of that, like re-engagement of a wider democratic movement. I understand why it's threatening for the political parties. And given that Morrison is at this very moment trying to install candidates in most of the New South Wales federal seats as captain's picks, how is that more democratic? They're running scared because they don't really know how to grapple with this new phenomenon that is actually very much threatening some of their key members. It's an ugly game, Joe, and we've seen it through the last term.

and I guess you personally, it's been a harrowing time with all the revelations from the past that came up. How are you feeling about putting your hat in the ring? I mean, I guess when I heard, just to go back to where we started, my thought was, are you really up for more of being in the national eye and all of the pain and attacks that come with that? I don't know that I would be. Well, look, that is something that I did take very seriously

in the decision-making process that got me to this point. I mean, it has been an awful kind of eight months, and you do become aware of the sheer depths that some in the political game are prepared to plumb to protect themselves or to advance their own political agenda and really project then onto others who are sort of innocent bystanders, project those sort of standards onto others. But I guess it does come down to the fact that I have been genuinely shocked at how quickly, how precipitously public standards can decline and the sort of government that we have endured over the last three years.

You know, the way that behaviours have been normalized, dishonesty, you know, corruption, all of these sorts of things which, you know, previously, at least if people were doing bad things, they understood that they were supposed to be a little bit ashamed of that. Now there's just a brazenness in the behaviour. And then there's this sort of assertion that, A, it doesn't matter and B will just now move on. I mean, I know he's mangled it every time that he's tried to say it,

but that whole thing about we're not looking through the rear view mirror or the rear, what is he? he say, the rear vision mirror, the mirror that Morrison's had. Look, if I had left behind me, the kind of trail of destruction that Morrison has left behind him, I wouldn't want to be looking backwards either, and I would be wanting to encourage people to look forwards. Some would say his vision came out of his rear. It's just actually not good enough. I mean, that's the thing. I think it's not good enough. And so there is a point where you think, well, you know, if you're going to complain, then step up and try and do something.

Because if you want things to change, if you want things to be different, then you actually have to do things differently and people will have to vote differently. So, you know, this is about saying I thought I had some capacity to stand up and try and argue a case as to why things need to change. And if you have the capacity, then get some skin in the game and do what you. you can. And, you know, if it all goes horribly wrong, well, you know, I'll go back to my normal very happy life. That's the thing. Like, I believe the stakes are very high for the country. They are quite high for me kind of personally. But in the end, I think a more enjoyable life is one

not being elected as the federal member of Buffy. So it's a win-win is what you're saying. Well, Joe, your skin is most definitely in the game. It's going to be a fascinating election to watch. It will be. Thanks so much for joining us. Oh, look, thanks for having me on. And, you know, if it doesn't work out, there's always writing for the shot.net.com. I love writing for the shot. And I will write more for the shot, but Louise Adler commissioned me to do a little essay in the national interest series. And I kind of, you know, I felt like I was going to think of university trying to get that done.

No, you don't want to be dealing with little upstarts like Louise Adler. So stick with the show. Stick with the establishment. So when I've got some more time off the campaign trail, Charles, I'll be right back there pitching to noon days. Okay. The Chaser Report, news you know you can't trust. Thank you to Joe for making so much for her time available. Hope you enjoyed the chat with her.

As always, I'm Gehry's from Road Microphones. We're part of the AICAST creator network. See ya.